I just wanna say I hope you keep this channel up! I love it and it’s helping me so much. I’m learning so much better and so much more than in my university classes and it’s more fun. I appreciate the work man
Thank you Kanishk! I hope to keep it up. It won't always be Forms videos or even Fusion 360 but I will keep on this path for awhile. If there is every a subject of interest please let me know!
Hey Ian, I just saw all these comments, sorry I wasn't able to answer while you were struggling. What ended up being the problem with the edge selection?
Good job! That gives an alternative when you get a problematic fender to model. 2 days ago I had a problem modelling the hood of a car. Generating the surface area of the model I couldn't weld two vertices and get back out of box mode. I had no choice but to merge edges to continue forward. Any suggestion on what could have been the problem? Was Fusion taking liberties there too?
Hey Ian, it is hard for me to say what the issue was without looking at the model. I am happy to take a look if you ever get stuck and export that version of the file. Sometimes using repair body and loosening up the weld tolerance can fix that stuff across the mirror line so make sure you give that a shot too.
Would it work similarly with a prismatic converted mesh from for example blender? Which would have a few more edges than the clean flare, since it was problematic before rolling the history back
Tarek, it treats the mesh slightly different than it does a surface. You can use both Match and Pull with the mesh but its the difference between moving the edge of a Tspline body vs moving a vertex. You need the surface edge if you want to control tangency between the form body and the surface. Mesh won't do that If you could get the flare as a quadmesh from Blender the easiest thing is to just convert it to a form body and then use Freeze so it doesn't move.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign exactly, i mean if you import a mesh and convert to Tspline, like the Blender->fusion video, converted meshes have many facets, if it creased 2,would it crease 20?
@@Tarex_ no because it doesn't treat the edge of a mesh the same way. You cant use match on a mesh edge, you would need to use Pull, which takes vertices to the mesh (or surface). But as far as I know you can't take the edge of a form to the edge of a mesh.
haha. for that i think the only option is to merge the verticies. I have honestly never tried to match or pull the edge of one tspline body to another one. Interesting idea though.
Ok, so match just sort of approximates things and then you actually connect them using stitch and adjusting the tolerance? Sort of like match gets it 98% of the way there and then you just perfect it with stitch?
Since this video was made Fusion 360 added an Associative option which maintains a link between the Forms body and the sketch or surface you are referencing. I did 2 update videos on that the most recent being here th-cam.com/video/QOylnpsG3Qc/w-d-xo.html When you use tolerance in the Match tool in order to get the shape close it adds T-points. I don't like this because it affects your ability to add edges and control the flow nicely. So it is a trade off. If you don't have enough divisions to accurately match the shape, when you go to stitch the surfaces you end up with gaps and you might need to adjust the stitch tolerance to get them to join together. The way I would do this if I "HAD" to get the edges perfect is I would use Match early on without tolerance, continue to build my shape and then when i knew i was done adding edges or changing the edge flow, I would use the match option with tolerance. At that point the extra Tpoints on the edge would likely not matter. Hope that helps.
I cant grab the second edge after initiating the match command. I've tried multiple and single edges. Perhaps its disabled because of the licence i have
I seem to have a mind set that blender is difficult to model in. Am I over thinking it and should keep on slogging it out. Is Blender better to model in over Fusion 360?
This is a topic I have thought about covering in a video. Modeling the same thing in Blender vs Fusion 360. There are pros and cons to both. Highly detailed "hard" models are easier in Fusion 360. Things like detailed lights, bezels, trim etc. And anything that needs to be dimensionally controlled. One thing that I have failed to bring to light is really the difference between forms and poly modeling in blender. In forms when we are box modeling it looks like what we would do in blender, but in reality what is happening is we are making a control cage and the software uses math to create smooth curves under that. This is the reason we might have a bunch of straight edges in box mode but they aren't straight in smooth display. In blender we are making the actual mesh and can use tools like subdivide to get a smoother outcome. This can be done visually or actually applied to the model. In addition we can change the weight of edges, something I really wish Fusion could do. The car in this video, the Corolla, I have tried several times to get a good result out of Forms and it just wont do it. The main issue is the harder body lines of a boxy 80s car. Forms works well for the Ferrari and more organic shapes but falls short when you try to control harder edges. You can fake it with creases but when you have a crease end into something like a fender flare it gets really ugly and hard to control. For the Corolla I must have burned up a few hours just trying to get a result I was happy with. The hybrid modeling approach can help if you build some control surfaces for those features that are harder in Forms to accurately control. I don't have a "this works and this doesn't" formula sadly. Surfacing takes a long time in Fusion using sketches to control everything. Forms is much quicker but falls short on harder detailes(like the WRX), and Blender is great but not for producing real CAD data....
It sure is! I am/was hoping on doing a model speed through of it. Ive played with it in Forms and surfacing but am not happy with the results yet. hopefully soon!
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign that’d be awesome. Haha looking forward to when you have a version you’re satisfied with 👍 any chance we could see you model stuff you’re interested in with a little back story. I think people would get hooked more knowing that you’re just another dude that likes cars/anime and this is how you apply skills like CAD design that isn’t normally associated with fun stuff. Regardless thank you for the videos man
Eurobeat intensifies! If I am happy with the Hachiroku I will try to toss up some more "story". I have already downloaded the decals including the fujiwara tofu for the door.
That crease you saw in match at about the 5 minute mark looks really annoying. It’s probably got a situation where one of the vertices is creased (with tangency handles) and the other isn’t. There is a workaround to un-crease such edges: crease them first, then un-crease them. Creasing first “extends” the crease to the whole edge, which gives un-crease something to select. I kind of hate that workaround, but it’s better than having to delete the whole thing.
Thanks for the tip Adam! Yeah for whatever reason match likes to play fast and loose with tangency handles :) I have also noticed that if you change the edit form selection to verts and you move one of the handles then use the reset(which is a chain link icon?) it will often go to the path of least resistance.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign We should probably chat about the stuff happening in this model. For one, I think uncrease should have let you uncrease that creased vertex (that's probably the problem--only half the edge is creased, so uncrease can't see it). For another, I want to know why it added that crease in the first place. The tangency handles are another issue. T-spline creasing gives a lot of extra shape control compared to subd creasing, but sometimes it's confusing. When you "link" a tangency handle, you're applying a constraint to "just behave like a subd crease, I don't want this extra control." In the case of (G1 or G2) match, though, we need them unlinked so that we can control tangency and curvature. G2 matching in particular is impossible without tangency handles (subd surfaces can't do it except in the simplest cases). That said, for any cases you see that are behaving weirdly, I'd love some data.
@@adamhelps If you don't still have my email from the last time we chatted just drop me a line support@caducator.com. Match did some weird stuff on this example for sure. And the odd part is that i have replicated this again and got a different result....
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I just wanna say I hope you keep this channel up! I love it and it’s helping me so much. I’m learning so much better and so much more than in my university classes and it’s more fun. I appreciate the work man
Thank you Kanishk! I hope to keep it up. It won't always be Forms videos or even Fusion 360 but I will keep on this path for awhile. If there is every a subject of interest please let me know!
Success! I use a form and a surface body line to get a clean transition between wheel arch and the top of the fender
Hey Ian, I just saw all these comments, sorry I wasn't able to answer while you were struggling. What ended up being the problem with the edge selection?
Good job! That gives an alternative when you get a problematic fender to model. 2 days ago I had a problem modelling the hood of a car. Generating the surface area of the model I couldn't weld two vertices and get back out of box mode. I had no choice but to merge edges to continue forward. Any suggestion on what could have been the problem? Was Fusion taking liberties there too?
Sometimes using weld vertices can show if you have some funky disconnected points...
Hey Ian, it is hard for me to say what the issue was without looking at the model. I am happy to take a look if you ever get stuck and export that version of the file. Sometimes using repair body and loosening up the weld tolerance can fix that stuff across the mirror line so make sure you give that a shot too.
Would it work similarly with a prismatic converted mesh from for example blender? Which would have a few more edges than the clean flare, since it was problematic before rolling the history back
Tarek, it treats the mesh slightly different than it does a surface. You can use both Match and Pull with the mesh but its the difference between moving the edge of a Tspline body vs moving a vertex. You need the surface edge if you want to control tangency between the form body and the surface. Mesh won't do that
If you could get the flare as a quadmesh from Blender the easiest thing is to just convert it to a form body and then use Freeze so it doesn't move.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign exactly, i mean if you import a mesh and convert to Tspline, like the Blender->fusion video, converted meshes have many facets, if it creased 2,would it crease 20?
@@Tarex_ no because it doesn't treat the edge of a mesh the same way. You cant use match on a mesh edge, you would need to use Pull, which takes vertices to the mesh (or surface). But as far as I know you can't take the edge of a form to the edge of a mesh.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign haha i mean after the conversion, so Tspline body, not mesh body
haha. for that i think the only option is to merge the verticies. I have honestly never tried to match or pull the edge of one tspline body to another one. Interesting idea though.
5:46 to 6:11 and 7:23 to 9:38.....Just watch this instead of watching whole video...Thank me later
Ok, so match just sort of approximates things and then you actually connect them using stitch and adjusting the tolerance? Sort of like match gets it 98% of the way there and then you just perfect it with stitch?
Since this video was made Fusion 360 added an Associative option which maintains a link between the Forms body and the sketch or surface you are referencing. I did 2 update videos on that the most recent being here th-cam.com/video/QOylnpsG3Qc/w-d-xo.html
When you use tolerance in the Match tool in order to get the shape close it adds T-points. I don't like this because it affects your ability to add edges and control the flow nicely. So it is a trade off. If you don't have enough divisions to accurately match the shape, when you go to stitch the surfaces you end up with gaps and you might need to adjust the stitch tolerance to get them to join together.
The way I would do this if I "HAD" to get the edges perfect is I would use Match early on without tolerance, continue to build my shape and then when i knew i was done adding edges or changing the edge flow, I would use the match option with tolerance. At that point the extra Tpoints on the edge would likely not matter.
Hope that helps.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign Cool, thank you so much, I really appreciate the depth of your explanations and responses.
great
I cant grab the second edge after initiating the match command. I've tried multiple and single edges. Perhaps its disabled because of the licence i have
I seem to have a mind set that blender is difficult to model in. Am I over thinking it and should keep on slogging it out. Is Blender better to model in over Fusion 360?
This is a topic I have thought about covering in a video. Modeling the same thing in Blender vs Fusion 360. There are pros and cons to both. Highly detailed "hard" models are easier in Fusion 360. Things like detailed lights, bezels, trim etc. And anything that needs to be dimensionally controlled.
One thing that I have failed to bring to light is really the difference between forms and poly modeling in blender. In forms when we are box modeling it looks like what we would do in blender, but in reality what is happening is we are making a control cage and the software uses math to create smooth curves under that. This is the reason we might have a bunch of straight edges in box mode but they aren't straight in smooth display. In blender we are making the actual mesh and can use tools like subdivide to get a smoother outcome. This can be done visually or actually applied to the model. In addition we can change the weight of edges, something I really wish Fusion could do.
The car in this video, the Corolla, I have tried several times to get a good result out of Forms and it just wont do it. The main issue is the harder body lines of a boxy 80s car. Forms works well for the Ferrari and more organic shapes but falls short when you try to control harder edges. You can fake it with creases but when you have a crease end into something like a fender flare it gets really ugly and hard to control.
For the Corolla I must have burned up a few hours just trying to get a result I was happy with. The hybrid modeling approach can help if you build some control surfaces for those features that are harder in Forms to accurately control.
I don't have a "this works and this doesn't" formula sadly. Surfacing takes a long time in Fusion using sketches to control everything. Forms is much quicker but falls short on harder detailes(like the WRX), and Blender is great but not for producing real CAD data....
Any chance that’s a hachi roku from initial D?
It sure is! I am/was hoping on doing a model speed through of it. Ive played with it in Forms and surfacing but am not happy with the results yet. hopefully soon!
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign that’d be awesome. Haha looking forward to when you have a version you’re satisfied with 👍 any chance we could see you model stuff you’re interested in with a little back story. I think people would get hooked more knowing that you’re just another dude that likes cars/anime and this is how you apply skills like CAD design that isn’t normally associated with fun stuff. Regardless thank you for the videos man
Eurobeat intensifies! If I am happy with the Hachiroku I will try to toss up some more "story". I have already downloaded the decals including the fujiwara tofu for the door.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesignDamn... that’s sick. Was gona ask if you were going to do the decals but didn’t want to overstep 😂 glad to hear 👍
Adrian, I forgot that I did show the AE86 in this video th-cam.com/video/VTTuQZdzM6M/w-d-xo.html
That crease you saw in match at about the 5 minute mark looks really annoying. It’s probably got a situation where one of the vertices is creased (with tangency handles) and the other isn’t.
There is a workaround to un-crease such edges: crease them first, then un-crease them. Creasing first “extends” the crease to the whole edge, which gives un-crease something to select.
I kind of hate that workaround, but it’s better than having to delete the whole thing.
Thanks for the tip Adam! Yeah for whatever reason match likes to play fast and loose with tangency handles :) I have also noticed that if you change the edit form selection to verts and you move one of the handles then use the reset(which is a chain link icon?) it will often go to the path of least resistance.
@@LearnEverythingAboutDesign We should probably chat about the stuff happening in this model. For one, I think uncrease should have let you uncrease that creased vertex (that's probably the problem--only half the edge is creased, so uncrease can't see it). For another, I want to know why it added that crease in the first place.
The tangency handles are another issue. T-spline creasing gives a lot of extra shape control compared to subd creasing, but sometimes it's confusing. When you "link" a tangency handle, you're applying a constraint to "just behave like a subd crease, I don't want this extra control." In the case of (G1 or G2) match, though, we need them unlinked so that we can control tangency and curvature. G2 matching in particular is impossible without tangency handles (subd surfaces can't do it except in the simplest cases). That said, for any cases you see that are behaving weirdly, I'd love some data.
@@adamhelps If you don't still have my email from the last time we chatted just drop me a line support@caducator.com. Match did some weird stuff on this example for sure. And the odd part is that i have replicated this again and got a different result....
Got it know how 'match' works