Well as a very conservative Christian since 1985, I would love to jump on this band wagon, but I would be the most hypocritical. As it turn out back in 1979 the first day of school, the first class of the day, in the first row off to my right was the first born again Christian I met or even heard of. Handed me a "track". And evangelized and lived out Christ throughout our last two years of high school. He was the first strong witness, only witness, the second witness would be at work 5 years later in 1983. Two years later I wanted to become like them and "Called upon the name of the Lord" through an "alter call" and "the sinners prayer" at a local church where a soft Christian rock band was performing. It was there the holy spirit washed me clean and came in to me that evening. Three things I can not fathom nor agree with 1. the condemnation/criticism of the "alter call" 2. the condemnation/criticism of the "sinners prayer" 3. the condemnation/criticism of "sharing Christ at work." For my Father was in on every one of them drawing me to his son. Oh yeah, and I got to be careful on frowning upon rocking roll in the church because. It was through a bands visit to this church that I got saved that evening. For the record, I am in agreement Doug Wilson.
Yes! The system needs to be revamped. Kids are just being taught to pass a test or meet a curriculum standard not really learn… Public School education is boring, no life. School projects aren’t even exciting or imaginative… it’s just blah! Who can learn under these kind of circumstances??
Her comments indicate that she has started embracing progressive, socialist ideas. To say that everyone needs to put their children in public school for the greater good of everyone is the way collectivists speak. Also, she's talking about loving your neighbor while forgetting that our children are our neighbor, And the first neighbor we should consider because God gave them to us.
@@tanyabaker4809that part to me was ridiculous. There are other ways to expose your children. I went to public school in California graduating in the 90s and I wouldnt put my child in the public schools here. Children can be influenced a lot with pure pressure.
Hello im a Christian teen girl studying in public school in the Philippines currently in my 9th grade, and i do admit i have been influenced of by my classmates more than i influenced them, please pray for me I'm the only Christian in the family and most of the time i get to carried away. The LORD had blessed me with a teacher who is also a Christian, he helps me a lot with decision making.
We are praying for you. There are Fillipino professors at Bible Colleges here in Pennsyvannia that have theor students praying g for youth in your country.
You’ll be fine. To live in the world and be impervious to being influenced by your experiences is folly. Those who ultimately push for you to remain unaffected by your experiences want to keep your development limited and to control you.
Just remember that when you are older you won't even know those high school "friends" anymore. They will be long gone out of your life and forgotten. Take this from a 45 year old. But no matter how long you live Jesus will be with you on your deathbed and beyond, throughout all eternity.
I was homeschooled my entire young life, and was surrounded by a huge variety of people. My co-op consisted of families from different socio-economic situations. My church friends were from an even wider variety of backgrounds. I went to work with my dad who was a home inspector and came in contact from everyone from crack addicts to millionaires. I knew family members and their friends who had many different backgrounds and struggles. This is all possible within the homeschool system and without throwing your kids to the wolves.
EXACTLY. Same with me. My dad was a blue collar worker and we knew plenty of poor, non-Christian people of various races. We were homeschooled, but not over-sheltered. We are doing the same with our kids. Her statements are positively insulting. She is broad brushing anyone who chooses not to send their kids to public school. And what about the atheists and secular people who choose to homeschool? What would she have to say to them? They're a significant group within the homeschool movement.
The problem is that even if we don't send them to be taught by Rome, we still need to teach them not to work for Romans after they graduate which is even harder.
I'm 39...and YUP! I totally agree. It takes a ton of work. I feel and have felt 'behind' since coming to Christ at 23. 16 years! And of course in there got married, had 5 children, went to seminary, bought houses, worked jobs, now pastor a church and have a youtube channel! I would have much rather not been force fed lies for 16 years of gov school through college. but I'm thankful still
I actually agree with Wilkin on some of her positives of public school. However, my big issue with public schools is that they get to disciple my children for longer periods of time then I do. It doesn’t really matter how theologically solid your home is if kids are spending more time hearing from Pagans than from faithful Christians.
I’d like to see Doug’s take on the more controversial things she said in this…..debate…..and I use that term very loosely because there really was no debate in that farce. One was where she equated loving your neighbor with sending your children to public schools. Also, I hate the accusation that Christians who pull their children out of government indoctrination centers do it based on fear.
Yes, her claim was absurd. We homeschool our children for the same reason we drive 30 minutes to a solid, biblical church instead of the apostate liberal churches I grew up in, even though they are geographically closer to home - because I love my children.
He does touch on this when he mentions doing what’s best for your family in terms of not shipwrecking your child’s faith or having your kid become gender confused. He clearly thinks the bible instructs to give our kids a Christian education. The bible does not contradict itself so it is not unloving to one’s neighbour to raise our children the way we are instructed to.
If you watch the full debate you'll see her statements in context and that your assumptions are not accurate on what she is saying. She never once vilifies private school or homeschool or any parents that make those decisions. Yes, she does say there are a few extreme cases out there but you and I would definitely say the same thing about the other side (and so would Jen). Though I don't agree with her on every point she makes, I would say it is unfair and dishonest for anyone to claim Jen is attacking private school and /or homeschool families. Go watch the full debate with an honest and objective view and you will see it too. All that said, I agree with Doug on this one.
My daughter is in a classical Christian school. We are not wealthy but I would live off ramen noodles to be able to send my children to a Classical Christian school. There is no neutrality in education. Everything is being taught with presuppositions about the world and the nature of reality. My concern is also not just what is explicitly taught through the curriculum, but what is implicitly taught by observing the attitudes, values and behaviors of the people around them. I don’t pretend to believe that everyone my daughter goes to school with is a born again believer, but I know that she is being discipled and taught from a biblical worldview.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 on the surface yes. But that would not actually be the case for our family. The income lost would be much more significant than the cost savings gained. Everyone’s circumstances and finances are different.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 to homeschool your child, is to remove yourself from ur current job. What prattle is saying, is that they would lose a lot of money from not working, much more money lost than if they spent money on private school
When I taught in the public school system, I was surprised at how little attention academics received. Social emotional learning (SEL) was the priority. And, thinking this philosophy was unique to my district, I left the profession, disgusted, and went on to raise a family. When our children became old enough to go to school, we sent them to the public school in a district ranked one of the best in our state. Then, I saw the exact the same philosophy as my former district. What a wake up call! Teachers in public schools are really just social workers who use academics as a springboard to activism. And if any Christian believes that their small child has the wherewithal to promote a Christian worldview in the Marxist church called public school, they are mistaken. It’s more like sending lambs to the slaughter.
Absolutely! I just witnessed this “activism” at a school board meeting where students said such things as “schools teach us to have a voice”, uh no sweetie,” schools are there to educate, not have you parade around and fight causes you know nothing about. 😒
When my son’s first grade music teacher decided to play the drag queen Sesame Street episode to his class and teach them words like “pansexual” it was time to get him into a Christian school. He can still be salt and light without going through that. Thank the Lord we found one for him, and now he’s thriving.
Yes. No matter how good you think your local district is, these bizarre anomalies can pop up. Then the deed is done, your child is harmed and you have to help him recover. The stakes are too high. Find a good school or keep them home. Even if the academics are lacking, salvation outweighs education. Information can be gained by adults, if necessary.
Except, this raging nonsense is being pushed in Christian schools as well. My daughter has spent her entire scholastic career in the Catholic School Board/System and is now brainwashed to believe there are an infinite number of genders and that is just a drop in the proverbial bucket. I was shocked at sick useless garbage they've tried to expose our children too like it's all somehow normal and/or acceptable. It's certainly not based on anything academic and BARELY spirituality based.
As a homeschool mom... my daughter interacts with all of what Jen lists right in the first clip. The difference being that "these people" are our neighbors, our family members, friends, sports grp, church friends, and tutoring buddies. Example. We are neighbors with a lesbian couple. They are very lovely, very nice women. The decorate their home for every holiday. We just went over to admire their easter bunnies in their lawn and chat with them. We don't need a public school for that.
This lady's story is all fine and good, but when my oldest child was in kindergarten and the school raised the rainbow flag... I knew right away it was time to go. I thank the Lord for that obvious sign! Edit, err grammer, I was edumacated in public school
When my son was in PRE-K they taught him that some people use needles to do drugs. And I became a homeschooler. I’m very grateful it was just that and nothing more. But I can imagine where they were heading.
I think this lady is full of it. World class education my behind. I went to public school and it was absolutely terrible. Because of my experience there I send my daughter to a private Christian school and she is getting a world-class education. We go to church there as well so we actually know her teachers. I’ve seen people say that a lot of the teachers are just pretending to be Christians. Well, I would rather the people taking care of my children during the day to at least pretend to be good. At public school they don’t even have to pretend to be good.
I will have to point out as a person who went to private Christian school for all 15 years of education, most people there are pretending to be Christians. They learn how to posture during worship, they learn how to talk about Jesus, they learn the basics of the Bible, and they learn how to hide bad behaviors. The irony is while some of them make instagram posts or talk in real life about how it’s all about Jesus, they point back to themselves repeatedly and compartmentalize Jesus into little corners of their lives. However there are also many who are genuine, including all of the staff in my case, and I would consider myself extremely grateful and blessed to have been in this school in East Tennessee all my life. It is definitely a better option than public school, but because of the expectation and agreement that you are a Christian if you go there, it does make it harder to evangelize and disciple bad actors. Or people that believe they are Christians when they are not.
Not too bad...I bet it's easier to evangelize someone who is familiar with the gospels than one who is not...(I'm assuming)...I have had to evangelize someone completely foreign to the gospel and someone who was exposed to it and I tell you, with the one who has been exposed to it, half the work is done...faith comes by hearing.
@@angru_arches Faith does come by hearing, I would say the people that know they aren't Christians deep down for one reason or another but have knowledge of the Gospel are easier to reach. I'm still in the process of doing that with them even after graduating a year ago. However, the ones that have tricked themselves into thinking they are saved or are even great spiritual leaders, those are the ones who are the hardest to reach and also cause the most relational damage on others.
It really should be assumed that, if a child is attending a Christian school, it's because his parents are Christians, but not that he necessarily is himself. Then again, I'm a Baptist and this is how we view our children anyway. I'm raising them to be Christians, and I hope they will be, but only the Holy Spirit can bring newness of life to a dead heart. Presbyterians do the same thing, but then we diverge when it comes to whether or not we consider this child to be a part of the church.
I am loathe to send my children, my young warriors to be primarily trained by my enemies. Also, I will not throw my sons and daughters to wage war before they are of a waring age.
It's easy to keep your kids Christian when the Christianity you're giving them is so lukewarm, nuanced, liberal and worldly that the evil of this world never really offends their sensibilities enough for them to have to actually rely on their Christianity for strength, support, and most importantly, TRUTH.
@Kinu Grove yeah, we left a 'make believe' church this last Summer when it finally became crystal clear that they were always going to tailor worship, doctrine, preaching, pastoring, and fellowship around what 'conservative worldly' people could stomach.
Seeing my local school district promote an LGBTQ book and doing a book drive with drag queens is more than enough to tell me what's happening in our schools around me...
I teach at a private school ministry of my church, having been the product of public school and I can’t fathom ever allowing my kids go to public school. Run!!!
She is lying to herself, she has a family of teachers to defend. She has no idea of how classes in math, reading, history, etc., are being taken over by marxist trained teachers, who put the subject (math) aside, in order to liberally expound on the plight of Juanita and José in the word problem. I have seen this in a very 'nice' public school, parents totally unaware. Literature subjects were how to save the world from pollution, not bad in itself possibly, but when we are considered useless eaters, and animals (not cows) and bugs are more important than people. I notice she said they graduated with a world class education... Lol...worldly wise but foolish to put your children at risk so that you can pursue your career. So much wring with what she says...hard to answer each one!
Marxist trained teachers? Lmao. This some pearl-clutching bs. Where is the Marxist teacher training school?? And you’re complaining about kids having to write about how to save the world from pollution…. Yikes. Have you not heard about the Ohio derailment?!
I’ve been homeschooling for over 25 years and that community is as diverse and vibrant as you can find with a high quality education catered to each child’s learning styles. Homeschooling isn’t cookie cutter.
2 min in and I have so much to say. All these things she’s pointing out as unique to public school are the same in homeschool as well. We have friends of all different races, economic status, and even with special needs. In the public school I grew up in the kids with special needs were not in our class they had they’re own special class. No one got to know who they were. And I know it’s still like that in many schools today.
What does 'world-class education' mean, that they came out thinking and acting like the world? Is that really what Christian parents should be desiring for their children?
When the aspiration of many evangelical parents is to have their kids grow up to be like Joseph, imagining having the favor, wealth, and power of a pagan king to be the measure of a life well lived; It's no wonder to me why the path to that end is one paved by a secular worldview. It is the same target the pagans are trying to hit for their children.
My priority is a “world class” faith. Academics is indeed important but it is secondary to training them in Christ. Our priority is raising children for the Kingdom - Not a world class education (which doesn’t exist in the public system anyway)!
I was patting myself on the back for being one of those very diligent parents who helped our daughter navigate public school and leave as a strong Christian until Doug’s last sentence about with all that effort, we could have started three Christian schools! I think he’s right.
I am a bit confused: if we're denying that we're sending the kids to the school to be "salt and light" (4:18), how can we also say that we ought to send them to those schools for the positive "impact" it will (or should) have on the other families (13:05)? What positive impact are we sending Christian kids to have on the other families that differs from a "salt and light" impact? Do we just send them with good snacks to share?
It sounds self contradictory to me too! Maybe she was talking "salt and light" in the sense of evangelism as in trying to persuade others ... otherwise it makes no sense ..
Your not confused. This is just the logical result of thinking in reaction when someone like her talks. She isnt honest and she has a very obvious agenda.
It's definitely one of the many overused, vague, undefined, perjoratives and misnomers they throw around now. It's right up there with "conspiracy theory", "bigot", "racist", "intolerance", "love thy neighbor", "anti-vaxxer", every phobe, ist and ism, and such alike. The point is to throw it out so it demeans, invokes fear and defensiveness, dehumanizes, and silences. Usually when it's used I go harder because it means I'm right where I need to be. I ignore their fake labels altogether.
yep. when someone is using the buzzwords of a godless culture you can safely assume who/what is shaping their worldview. I was suprised to hear she was a Bible teacher. Sounds like she might be on the path of Beth Moore. We shall see in a few years. In meantime I have stepped away from women Bible teachers all together because they have betrayed me too many times.
I went to public school my entire life and it was horrible. I hated being there every single day. Now my son goes to a private Christian school and is thriving, loves school, has good friends from good families with solid morals and most importantly, faith in Christ. What a difference it makes, but people will make excuses forever to justify sending their kid to the fire pit aka public school
Thank you for covering this! Allie Beth Stuckey @Relatable had a really good take on this, too! Jen Wilkin uses a lot of logical fallacies & gaslighting. I don’t think I could stomach one of her Bible studies after hearing what she said.
Public schools are a terrible idea. Sometimes they don't work out as badly as they could. Also, schools have a track record of hiding stuff from parents. 'Knowing what the school district teaches' isn't always that reassuring. Parents first duty is to their children. So long as their actions are not in themselves immoral, their actions must maximize their children's (and spouse's) benefit. Everybody else's benefit comes second. Else we are no better than heathens. A Christian in public school essentially has to be taught the whole thing again, a second time, at home (nowadays, maybe even the math). It seems to me more reasonable to educate your kids once than educate then and re-educate them.
So much work and so little time. No excuses so back to the grind. Doug Wilson and Canon Press bringing the HEAT of the Gospel truth y'all. Nobody does it better.
As a public school educator, it can really depend on so many things: administration, overall leadership, school boards, socio-economic conditions of the school and the home lives as well. I’ve taught in amazing public schools that invited the churches, prayer and Bible studies into the school. One school was presenting the Gospel to K-5 students in the Bible club after school. I’ve taught in inner city schools where a church presence in the school would’ve been amazing, I’ve had Christian families leave the public schools who had no business homeschooling their children because their homes were chaos and in no condition to homeschool. If you know anything about the public schools in and around where Jen Wilkins goes to church, they are some of the best schools in the nation: FlowerMound, Texas. Additionally, to pretend that all private schools are bastions of righteousness and harbors of superior learning is a misconception as well. Some private institutions are just bank rolled by some wealthy parents and the academics are horrible. Some private schools are little more than country clubs. It all depends on the school and the spiritual climate of the community. To make this a one size fits all approach and solution is short sighted and myopic at best.
@@nicolcacola Hi Nikki, thank you for the comment. As a teacher, it really is not up to me who or does not keep their children in school. I was blessed to have been homeschooled as a child. Again, just trying to make the point…it’s not a one size fits all scenario. If ever there was a mission field it would be in many public schools. Pray for those teachers who profess Christ.
I think public education can be beneficial, but that's not really the point of the matter. We need to ask ourselves which is a better experience and more conducive to building up a child's faith on average. Even if we compare the best public schools with the best Christian private schools, which one do you think meets those goals better? The calculus here is pretty simple. Are we often faced with non-ideal scenarios? Yeah, but that's why there should be some context relative sensitivity here. Sometimes there are no ideal Christian institutions in a particular local area. In that case, a parent might not have many options available for their kids schooling - that's fine. They just need to get real about the downsides and consequences of public school and take appropriate action to safeguard their kids through catechism, church attendance, church activities and functions, etc.
My children are children. My conviction for homeschooling my children comes from Deuteronomy 6. There may be a time when my son goes to a private high school but I also was a public school teacher myself before I had him and know the garbage he would be taught in public schools. Our homeschool co-op is full of racial diversity, socio-economic diversity, and a mix of family situations, so he will have experience with a variety of children. Public school doesn’t hold the whole market on diversity.
If my kids were still in elementary school or even middle school, I absolutely would not send them to public school these days. My son is now in public HS, 10th grade. We homeschooled the last two years & he hated it. He wanted to go back to school & play basketball with his friends. He’s a smart kid & knows what’s good & evil…when he’s not sure, he talks to us & we discuss it. I gave him the choice about school. At his age I didn’t want to force him to homeschool & be miserable & we can’t afford private school. Everyone’s circumstances are different…I don’t believe we should judge each others personal choices in this area. I pray for my son everyday driving him to school. It’s really disheartening to hear many believers bashing parents for “sending them like lambs to the slaughter” I trust in the Lord, not your opinions! That being said, good discussion, thanks for the video 😅
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 2 Cor 6:17 That is a hard one to get around. Lord also said to Judge righteous judgement John 7:24 he also says when a Christian sees another Christian doing something wrong "preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2 Titus 4:2
I wish I could have been home schooled just to develop a closer relationship with my parents and siblings but, I was able to share Christ with a couple of my public school teachers and one eventually became a Christian. It takes a strong personality and involved parents to come out of public education unscathed. Wherever they are schooled, teach your kids to think, question and reason with a Biblical basis.
Most kids are not strong enough, until kids are adults they are under their parents authority and their parents faith to protect them until they are mature enough to know have a solid foundation with Christ.
My brother just had a big issue at his kids school they are making them do the gender unicorn and teaching them about "misgendering" and all this craziness, I'm not sure how its going to turn out but he is writing letters to all the government officials in the state and meeting with the school admins..........total mess.
When I started grade school during the Korean War the only Christian schools I knew about were Catholic. By the 1970s when my kids were ready for school, my wife opt'd for Christian schools because even by the 1970s things were changing rapidly in public eduction. Glad we did. This woman is kidding herself.
I went to public schools. From my experience it did give me the ability to adapt to many different social environments throughout my life and helped me be a more empathetic person. Now I wouldn't argue that I received a better education in regards to books. There were a lot of disruptions in class.
I also want to point out that she doesn’t know what homeschool is like. She only knows what she knows and so she’s only going to point out what she has experienced. I’m glad I can say we had a good experience with my sons public school for k and 1st and we live in a conservative town BUT we still chose to pull him out and it was not easy but it’s sooooo much better. To think I could have sent all my babies to be discipled by everyone else but me hurts to think about. It’s not saying they don’t get exposure to other people but my goodness she needs to wake up and see what the other side is saying and doing and why. She’s also painting a picture that Christian’s should bow down to societal and cultural changes like we ought to be doing public school for the good of the community. Hahahaha she does realize that those of us who DON’T go to public school get to be in the community daily and actually learning real world experiences. And this wasn’t a true debate IMO.
As a person who attended public school through 8th grade in the 80s, I can say that our little country school still had a heavy Bible-based morality system since we had a heavy presence of Catholics in our rural area. I think I could count the people on one hand who actually didn't claim church attendance somewhere. But as it came time to go on to high school, my parents opted to send me to private school. I went to a Catholic school for 9th grade because my parents weren't aware of any protestant Christian schools around at the time. During that year, I learned that it wasn't much different than my elementary public school. But again, that's because our area was so prominently Catholic, with most of the rest being involved in one of the Protestant religions. I finished out my high school years at a Christian prep school. The kids were the same there. But the teaching I received was worth every penny and has stood me in much better stead in my adult life. I was being taught how to follow orders in the other schools. But in the Christian prep school, I was taught how to actually think for myself to solve problems in a way that actually works, not only in scholarly realms, but in all areas of life. I truly wish my parents had known about /that/ school earlier, but God's plan is perfect. The truth is kids are kids no matter where you go. They regurgitate whatever they are being filled up with. But the difference really lies in the curriculum and who's teaching it. I know of instances in which a child with social anxiety was forced from homeschool into the public school system by her father to 'be salt and light' in a rough public high school. To this day, I do /not/ understand that mentality. As much as I don't understand how anyone could tear down a Christian teacher who is actually trying to be salt and light in the public school system. I have several Christian friends who are teachers in public schools. They do a wonderful job, but in many areas, their hands are tied. It's still a good thing to have them there, though.
You can know what's in the textbooks. You can know what teachers are saying when you're around. And you can know what questionable things the teachers are doing/saying that your kids pick up on as inappropriate and remember to tell you about. You cannot know what's being taught in public schools.
I am torn on this. I learned about Christ in public school from some girls who were committed Christians. They lived out the gospel and it was attractive to me. I wanted to know what they had. I have no answer to this issue. I am just glad He put me in the right place at the right time and used it for His glory and my salvation. I am not advocating either position. I pray for our kids and these families having to make these decisions.
My only issue with this discussion on is parents have very little control over if their children will choose Christ due to private vs public schooling. You train your children and then they have to make their choices I don’t find either school domain more successful in changing hearts for Christ
I've heard it argued that it's a sin for parents in America in 2023 to send their kids to public school. And while I'm not convinced of that, Wilkins' argument is so breathtakingly idiotic that it pushes me that way. In what universe does the Christian ethic demand that I deliberately harm my family for the sake of those who are outside my family?
@@aallen5256 I’m 100% okay with being “hateful” in that instance even though it’s a normal aversion to degeneracy. Homosexuality is a cull to gene pools. It’s not natural. We need to stop pretending that it is.
@@jbb8261 It absolutely is natural though. Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex is observable in over 1500 animal species, literally in every single animal group and on every continent. And in humans it’s evidently been occurring since before the bible! Your hatred is not normal, and we need to stop pretending that it is. It’s induced by indoctrination!
I used to have great respect for Jen Wilkin until...I listened to this debate in full. She is incredibly naive if she thinks her school district does not have teachers who do not support and promote the LGBTQ and anti-Christian agenda. We live in a small town in Ohio and public school teachers at our church have said it's present at our town's high school. I went to public school in the 60's where my self- esteem was so damaged in front of my whole gym class by the gym teacher. I was so embarrassed that there was no way I was going to share this with my parents who were very godly and who would have been troubled by it. We moved in my high school years and I attended a Christian High school which was good, but a stretch financially for my parents who were in ministry. When my husband I had children, we felt a great conviction to homeschool. We wanted to shape our children's worldview and their view of themselves. No teacher will love your children or have the desire that they succeed in school like you will. It is our job as parents to disciple our children. We have not been given the responsibility for anyone else's children, though where we see need, we should help, of course. Jen Wilkin is way off base. It seems she's trying to validate the choice she and her husband made...
She's playing the "choice-privilege" card. My decision to send my child to Christian school will not be influenced in the slightest by speculation about what my or my child's absence might mean for those left behind in the government schools. Not even a little bit. And I'm past liberal guilt-tripping ...
If she considers the government school her mission field, she can easily be involved through volunteering and participating in school board meetings without sacrificing her kids on their altar.
Where is her husband? Obviously not leading their family or he wouldn't be allowing any of her tom footers. Throwing your children to the lion's den isn't loving them, it's hating them.
Government schools treat Christ as irrelevant - at best. That's pretty much all I need to know as a Christian parent. And from what I know from God's Word, it will be on that point that I will be judged by God.
So I'm in the process of my first and last year working in a private Christian School to which belongs to the church we attend. It has been the worst train wreck experience of my life. I got to see all of the truth of the school. There is no Discipline of the families or the children. So the children get away with murder daily. 1st graders cussing across when they're told what to do you name it, getting in fights and putting their hands on other. And the school does nothing to correct any of it. their behavior because of their sad life story. The teachers quit after one year of working there each year so they are in constant need of finding teachers. Situations at every private school are not the same. I think ultimately is up to each family and their relationship with God and the way God leads them. be so glad for my time to be up at a job. And to pull my children out of this very corrupt Christian School. Their whole model is we teach the gospel but then we never give no discipline otherwise. I don't think that's how God designed it. alcohol is extremely high where the school is. The school lied to me about what they do ultimately. people have caught them in the same lies. I may be pursuing homeschool with my kids from here on out. Pray for us.
Homeschooling is a lot of work, but it’s very rewarding. You have to get into the mindset that your mom teaching, your not their teacher as in a public or private school. In thinking that way it gives you a lot of freedom to teach what your kids love and interest are not always just following the curriculum. ❤️
That’s sad if Sunday school is the only means of Christian education. Not everyone has the luxury of private school. Even with the nonsense being taught in public school, you could still get a good education just as long as the parents are involved.
@@RunFunkyWolf No. It’s school at home. Parents receive curriculum, and the parents work with the children. There is a teacher that the homework is submitted to, but the work is done at home. My younger sisters did homeschooling for their high school years and graduated early.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 So you have to hire a teacher? Because not everyone has a talent for teaching complicated stuff. I know I don't. With the stuttering and all.
I spent over 20 years in my local public school district, first as a college volunteer, then as a student teacher, then as a teacher for 17 years. I can tell you first hand that the experience being a Christian educator in a secular environment degraded more each year. By last year I could not continue on. We removed our children and placed them into private school, where indeed their education is already far superior. I don’t know if Jen Wilkin is willfully ignorant or truly lives in a bubble with a healthy public school, but the system is rotten from the top down. And a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit. God can do anything in any environment, but Christians must have our eyes open. Our babies are being discipled every day…the question is, in what?
Anyone else notice how these types (Wilkin, Chandler, Piper, Stanley, etc.) never put themselves in situations or environments where they can be called out for their serious errors? It's purposeful.
I am a pastor and have seven kids and I have sent, so far, 4 to public high school and three did well and one struggled. As a matter of fact, three were able to advance the Gospel in the lives of people and my oldest was a captain of the football team (120 players). I have seen kids thrive and fail in all sorts of situations. To broad brush is not helpful and to shame good meaning Christians is wrongheaded. Please disregard the temptation to act like the world - in condemning or gossiping about how parents being sinful and wrong, for sending kids to a public school. I have known a lot of kids in Christian schools that are much more inclined to act "like Rome" while having a veneer of morality that seems like Christianity. Also, remember that some public schools are better than others depending on where you live. Pastor Doug, there are better subjects to take aim at.
My public school experience here in the US was not good. I think that Christian parents should avoid sending their kids there at all costs. It's like placing your family in the lions' den and hoping that they won't get eaten alive.
I’m from Southern California the most ethnically diverse school I went to was in a Christian school. The most racially segregated school was a public school. I also got a far better education in the private school
Here in Denton in N. Texas, the public school system seems a significant part of kids changing course from their parents' faith, despite Christian parents and regular churchgoing. It's painfully routine for them to drop church and faith and moral lives..., filled with Christian teachers just 15-20 minutes up the road from her church.
I can't think of an ISD in the DFW area that she could be so omniscient about that would not be compromised. She will not name the ISD because discerning Christians will call her out after research.
Agree with your analysis and comments. The gal is pretty condescending in her assumption of parents not public schooling. Firsthand it was for us and disgustingly corrupted was the case. And I know of several, so called self professed Christian teachers in the public school system who have remained and or compromised themselves for a paycheck. No excuse in my eyes.
What am I supposed to do if I have three kids, don't qualify for tuition assistance, and my wife is struggling to homeschool? I ask seriously because it has been a great weight for me. I'm trying to weigh whats my responsibility vs trusting the Lord
Doug Wilson was very respectful and gentle with this lady. She is no doubt much smarter and more educated and more godly than I am. And hopefully her family is all good and godly and well... but.... She seemed to be coming from the perspective of the 1950's public schools in America. And even "good" public schools.... don't they get federal money and therefore influence? ... and the textbooks? .... not to mention the underlying non-Christian/Biblical presuppositions underlying everything taught (i.e. no neutrality). It just seems that this intelligent, educated, no doubt godly lady is living in a dream world regarding public education and the Christian alternatives. Thanks pastor Wilson!
@Aaron Welsh hopefully it will be zero. Hopefully her kids will reject the flimsy, hyper-nuanced, woke, and ineffective faith of their parents that seeks to "humanize conversations" about sin and allows women pastors (just as long as we call them a different title), and instead, believes the robust, bold and brave faith of the Bible. Is saying the obvious about kids leaving the kind of Christianity that the Village Church espouses more offensive than the Christianity they promote?
A perspective: I'm a Christian, and I was born and raised in the church. I've also been in public schools my entire life, from preschool to now. I'm a senior in High School. As I've gotten older, I've seen the presence of liberal "woke" ideology in schools, the gender neutral bathrooms they've built and the pride flags they hang up, and I won't deny it exists. I've had my faith tested plenty of times, been criticized for my views plenty of times, and I've had the opportunity to share my faith with the friends I have made, as well as build close relationships with non-Christians. For extra context, I live in California. My cousins up until recently lived in China as missionaries. The children in that family have grown up essentially living and breathing Christianity. I would certainly agree that they are steadfast in their faith, perhaps even in ways that I am not. That being said, the children in that family have never really been exposed to alternate perspectives. Recently, they started living with us and going to the public schools I went to when I was a bit younger. Often times I hear them mocking beliefs held by their peers or things taught in school like evolution for example. It hurt me to hear from my own family essentially the same mocking and patronizing that I had received from "the other side" so many times. Having my faith challenged and being forced to defend my views has made my faith overall stronger and helped me see it's something worth fighting for and standing on. Being exposed to other views has allowed me to respect them and understand where people are coming from and why they hold the perspectives they do. I do see these as possible benefits of being in the public schooling system.
She’s years away from her kids being in High School. She refuses to acknowledge that things have changed significantly over that time. She acquiesced to the world
Barely 1 minute in and I can feel my blood pressure rising. Exposing your kids (not sure the age/grade) to "a broad array of kinds of people", which includes sexual deviants is a GOOD thing to her?! Bless you, Pastor Doug, but I just can't with this. (As the kids on the internet used to say.)
I love teachers innately. I thank teachers I meet like I thank Policemen and Firemen. They have a critical and thankless job. And as long as I have the option, I'm not sending my kid to a public school.
Your kids being exposed or meeting people of different socioeconomic backgrounds and races could all happen at church. If your church is a reflection of your community, then you will meet that diversity in your church. That's where I met people from different backgrounds, and made friends with them. Most kids I know who went through public school did not get through college with their faith intact. They may have left the house saying they were Christians, but by their mid-20s it started to look like they had just been pleasing their parents. (This has happened to homeschooled kids I knew too, but it is leaps and bounds more common with kids who went to public school)
It is hard. I decided to homeschool and I am careful not to make any Christian parent feel wrong for sending their kids to a public school. Not everyone can afford to send their kids to a private school or able to have a parent home teaching.
@M G I agree. But Pharaoh is asking both parents to build his bricks! I’m speaking to myself too as we’re at a place where we have to make a decision on how to be able to afford private or how we can homeschool? Keep us in prayer
I'm from NYC, and if public schools are run the same throughout the country, I went to the school based on my address. So if your community is not economically or ethnically diverse then your public school won't be either.
Ms Wilkin's comment that her kids were in a bible study in high school startled me. The public schools where we have lived (mid-Atlantic, southeast) would not tolerate having a bible study in school even when our child was growing up, two decades ago. (Nowadays, the mid-Atlantic school area has gained a reputation for having certain definitely non-biblical books in their libraries and shows featuring men wearing cosmetics and costumes.) When my now-grown child and child's spouse have children, I hope they can find private/parochial schools espousing Judeo-Christian values - or I guess I'll be moving and homeschooling.
No no, no, no, no!!!! I have first hand experience of this. We just took our 10, 8 and 5 yr olds out of a state "faith" school. All kids doing very well academically (according to state tests). All popular with peers, teachers, they were assets to the school. But the school was always seeping in to them, FAR more than our kids could be salt and light. Our kids are amazing kids but they have their own sin issues, they didn't need 29 others surrounding them and compounding it. So much more i could say. We're feeling wobbly and in the unknown now, but despite the quiet disapproval of christian friends, my husband and i finally did right by our kids and pulled them out. Now please, can you get a Logos school in England, thank you very much 😂
Public school teacher here!
DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS TO PUBLIC SCHOOL
"Your kids are not missionaries, they are the mission field." Voddie Baucham
You got it, Voddie spoke the truth! His children of Caesar series was phenomenal!
I always say this. Kids are not called to be missionaries, they are just learning the ropes themselves!
Well as a very conservative Christian since 1985, I would love to jump on this band wagon, but I would be the most hypocritical. As it turn out back in 1979 the first day of school, the first class of the day, in the first row off to my right was the first born again Christian I met or even heard of. Handed me a "track". And evangelized and lived out Christ throughout our last two years of high school. He was the first strong witness, only witness, the second witness would be at work 5 years later in 1983. Two years later I wanted to become like them and "Called upon the name of the Lord" through an "alter call" and "the sinners prayer" at a local church where a soft Christian rock band was performing. It was there the holy spirit washed me clean and came in to me that evening.
Three things I can not fathom nor agree with
1. the condemnation/criticism of the "alter call"
2. the condemnation/criticism of the "sinners prayer"
3. the condemnation/criticism of "sharing Christ at work."
For my Father was in on every one of them drawing me to his son.
Oh yeah, and I got to be careful on frowning upon rocking roll in the church because. It was through a bands visit to this church that I got saved that evening.
For the record, I am in agreement Doug Wilson.
Voddie is the man
The best comment I heard was that if the "Christian" kids left the public schools the whole system would collapse.
Why don't we do it?
Right?!?
Yes! The system needs to be revamped. Kids are just being taught to pass a test or meet a curriculum standard not really learn… Public School education is boring, no life. School projects aren’t even exciting or imaginative… it’s just blah! Who can learn under these kind of circumstances??
🎉🎉🎉
@annaliesenistor8145 the vast majority of inner city schools is absolute indoctrination
YES! Money talks! We home school and will not utilize the public schools at all! Pull your kids!
This deserves more heat. She is ever so gently implying that keeping children out of public school is illegitimate, selfish and un-Christian.
Her comments indicate that she has started embracing progressive, socialist ideas. To say that everyone needs to put their children in public school for the greater good of everyone is the way collectivists speak. Also, she's talking about loving your neighbor while forgetting that our children are our neighbor, And the first neighbor we should consider because God gave them to us.
You nailed it Nathan, very excellent attention on your part!
@@tanyabaker4809that part to me was ridiculous. There are other ways to expose your children. I went to public school in California graduating in the 90s and I wouldnt put my child in the public schools here. Children can be influenced a lot with pure pressure.
@@tianacampuzano9527 Right. There's a difference between putting your children in front of the fireplace to keep them warm, and throwing them in.
@@tanyabaker4809 yes
Hello im a Christian teen girl studying in public school in the Philippines currently in my 9th grade, and i do admit i have been influenced of by my classmates more than i influenced them, please pray for me I'm the only Christian in the family and most of the time i get to carried away. The LORD had blessed me with a teacher who is also a Christian, he helps me a lot with decision making.
We are praying for you. There are Fillipino professors at Bible Colleges here in Pennsyvannia that have theor students praying g for youth in your country.
🙏🏽🙏🏽
You’ll be fine. To live in the world and be impervious to being influenced by your experiences is folly. Those who ultimately push for you to remain unaffected by your experiences want to keep your development limited and to control you.
Praying for sister.
Just remember that when you are older you won't even know those high school "friends" anymore.
They will be long gone out of your life and forgotten.
Take this from a 45 year old. But no matter how long you live Jesus will be with you on your deathbed and beyond, throughout all eternity.
I was homeschooled my entire young life, and was surrounded by a huge variety of people. My co-op consisted of families from different socio-economic situations. My church friends were from an even wider variety of backgrounds. I went to work with my dad who was a home inspector and came in contact from everyone from crack addicts to millionaires. I knew family members and their friends who had many different backgrounds and struggles. This is all possible within the homeschool system and without throwing your kids to the wolves.
Thank you!
And is still no guarantee they will not be influenced by the culture negatively
EXACTLY. Same with me. My dad was a blue collar worker and we knew plenty of poor, non-Christian people of various races. We were homeschooled, but not over-sheltered. We are doing the same with our kids. Her statements are positively insulting. She is broad brushing anyone who chooses not to send their kids to public school.
And what about the atheists and secular people who choose to homeschool? What would she have to say to them? They're a significant group within the homeschool movement.
This is the truth!
Great points, being with your dad and seeing what he did probably taught you a lot.
People send their kids to be taught by Rome for 8 hours a day and wonder why they come home as Romans. -Voddie Baucham
The problem is that even if we don't send them to be taught by Rome, we still need to teach them not to work for Romans after they graduate which is even harder.
Amen!! Children of caesar, Dr Voddie Baucham, whoo-hoo, great stuff!
That's good
@@RunFunkyWolf teaching them to be a business owner can help fix that.
If we're honest, those kids went to public school so mom could work at TGC.
At 36, I'm still re-educating myself from public schooling. It feels like about once a month a new thing is revealed to me about how I was mistaught.
The "Politically Incorrect Guide To" series can be very helpful here. Good luck!
Same...
Same here. And same age.
I'm 39...and YUP! I totally agree. It takes a ton of work. I feel and have felt 'behind' since coming to Christ at 23. 16 years! And of course in there got married, had 5 children, went to seminary, bought houses, worked jobs, now pastor a church and have a youtube channel!
I would have much rather not been force fed lies for 16 years of gov school through college. but I'm thankful still
same story, but 38
“My kids have graduated”
Also
“I know these things aren’t being taught”
Her kids are no longer there how would she know?
Exactly, this stuff is getting worse everyday, it's growing like a cancer
I actually agree with Wilkin on some of her positives of public school. However, my big issue with public schools is that they get to disciple my children for longer periods of time then I do. It doesn’t really matter how theologically solid your home is if kids are spending more time hearing from Pagans than from faithful Christians.
Amen
What she said about public schools are also true in private schools.
Well said!
I’d like to see Doug’s take on the more controversial things she said in this…..debate…..and I use that term very loosely because there really was no debate in that farce. One was where she equated loving your neighbor with sending your children to public schools.
Also, I hate the accusation that Christians who pull their children out of government indoctrination centers do it based on fear.
Yes, her claim was absurd. We homeschool our children for the same reason we drive 30 minutes to a solid, biblical church instead of the apostate liberal churches I grew up in, even though they are geographically closer to home - because I love my children.
Same. And the idea that we can't do what's best for our own families because of "love your neighbour?" Ridiculous.
@@joys.6347 Darn right! 🙌
He does touch on this when he mentions doing what’s best for your family in terms of not shipwrecking your child’s faith or having your kid become gender confused. He clearly thinks the bible instructs to give our kids a Christian education. The bible does not contradict itself so it is not unloving to one’s neighbour to raise our children the way we are instructed to.
If you watch the full debate you'll see her statements in context and that your assumptions are not accurate on what she is saying. She never once vilifies private school or homeschool or any parents that make those decisions. Yes, she does say there are a few extreme cases out there but you and I would definitely say the same thing about the other side (and so would Jen). Though I don't agree with her on every point she makes, I would say it is unfair and dishonest for anyone to claim Jen is attacking private school and /or homeschool families. Go watch the full debate with an honest and objective view and you will see it too.
All that said, I agree with Doug on this one.
My daughter is in a classical Christian school. We are not wealthy but I would live off ramen noodles to be able to send my children to a Classical Christian school. There is no neutrality in education. Everything is being taught with presuppositions about the world and the nature of reality. My concern is also not just what is explicitly taught through the curriculum, but what is implicitly taught by observing the attitudes, values and behaviors of the people around them. I don’t pretend to believe that everyone my daughter goes to school with is a born again believer, but I know that she is being discipled and taught from a biblical worldview.
Homeschooling is a cheaper option
@@jesuschristsaves9067 on the surface yes. But that would not actually be the case for our family. The income lost would be much more significant than the cost savings gained. Everyone’s circumstances and finances are different.
@@prattle4092 homeschooling is cheaper than private school.
"There is no neutrality in education."
Nailed it.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 to homeschool your child, is to remove yourself from ur current job. What prattle is saying, is that they would lose a lot of money from not working, much more money lost than if they spent money on private school
When I taught in the public school system, I was surprised at how little attention academics received. Social emotional learning (SEL) was the priority. And, thinking this philosophy was unique to my district, I left the profession, disgusted, and went on to raise a family. When our children became old enough to go to school, we sent them to the public school in a district ranked one of the best in our state. Then, I saw the exact the same philosophy as my former district. What a wake up call! Teachers in public schools are really just social workers who use academics as a springboard to activism. And if any Christian believes that their small child has the wherewithal to promote a Christian worldview in the Marxist church called public school, they are mistaken. It’s more like sending lambs to the slaughter.
Absolutely! I just witnessed this “activism” at a school board meeting where students said such things as “schools teach us to have a voice”, uh no sweetie,” schools are there to educate, not have you parade around and fight causes you know nothing about. 😒
Well said
Whoo, preach it sister! 🥳🙏
Preach
you needed combat pay. Every public teacher I know counts down the day they retire
When my son’s first grade music teacher decided to play the drag queen Sesame Street episode to his class and teach them words like “pansexual” it was time to get him into a Christian school. He can still be salt and light without going through that. Thank the Lord we found one for him, and now he’s thriving.
Yes.
No matter how good you think your local district is, these bizarre anomalies can pop up. Then the deed is done, your child is harmed and you have to help him recover.
The stakes are too high. Find a good school or keep them home. Even if the academics are lacking, salvation outweighs education. Information can be gained by adults, if necessary.
Except, this raging nonsense is being pushed in Christian schools as well. My daughter has spent her entire scholastic career in the Catholic School Board/System and is now brainwashed to believe there are an infinite number of genders and that is just a drop in the proverbial bucket. I was shocked at sick useless garbage they've tried to expose our children too like it's all somehow normal and/or acceptable. It's certainly not based on anything academic and BARELY spirituality based.
As a homeschool mom... my daughter interacts with all of what Jen lists right in the first clip. The difference being that "these people" are our neighbors, our family members, friends, sports grp, church friends, and tutoring buddies. Example. We are neighbors with a lesbian couple. They are very lovely, very nice women. The decorate their home for every holiday. We just went over to admire their easter bunnies in their lawn and chat with them. We don't need a public school for that.
This lady's story is all fine and good, but when my oldest child was in kindergarten and the school raised the rainbow flag... I knew right away it was time to go. I thank the Lord for that obvious sign!
Edit, err grammer, I was edumacated in public school
When my son was in PRE-K they taught him that some people use needles to do drugs.
And I became a homeschooler. I’m very grateful it was just that and nothing more. But I can imagine where they were heading.
@@cats6541 Where do you imagine they were heading?!
I think this lady is full of it. World class education my behind. I went to public school and it was absolutely terrible. Because of my experience there I send my daughter to a private Christian school and she is getting a world-class education. We go to church there as well so we actually know her teachers. I’ve seen people say that a lot of the teachers are just pretending to be Christians. Well, I would rather the people taking care of my children during the day to at least pretend to be good. At public school they don’t even have to pretend to be good.
I will have to point out as a person who went to private Christian school for all 15 years of education, most people there are pretending to be Christians. They learn how to posture during worship, they learn how to talk about Jesus, they learn the basics of the Bible, and they learn how to hide bad behaviors. The irony is while some of them make instagram posts or talk in real life about how it’s all about Jesus, they point back to themselves repeatedly and compartmentalize Jesus into little corners of their lives. However there are also many who are genuine, including all of the staff in my case, and I would consider myself extremely grateful and blessed to have been in this school in East Tennessee all my life. It is definitely a better option than public school, but because of the expectation and agreement that you are a Christian if you go there, it does make it harder to evangelize and disciple bad actors. Or people that believe they are Christians when they are not.
Not too bad...I bet it's easier to evangelize someone who is familiar with the gospels than one who is not...(I'm assuming)...I have had to evangelize someone completely foreign to the gospel and someone who was exposed to it and I tell you, with the one who has been exposed to it, half the work is done...faith comes by hearing.
@@angru_arches Faith does come by hearing, I would say the people that know they aren't Christians deep down for one reason or another but have knowledge of the Gospel are easier to reach. I'm still in the process of doing that with them even after graduating a year ago. However, the ones that have tricked themselves into thinking they are saved or are even great spiritual leaders, those are the ones who are the hardest to reach and also cause the most relational damage on others.
The problem is those cases is most likely in the sphere of the home and the church.
A lot of people take their problem children to Christian schools hoping it will straighten them out
It really should be assumed that, if a child is attending a Christian school, it's because his parents are Christians, but not that he necessarily is himself.
Then again, I'm a Baptist and this is how we view our children anyway. I'm raising them to be Christians, and I hope they will be, but only the Holy Spirit can bring newness of life to a dead heart. Presbyterians do the same thing, but then we diverge when it comes to whether or not we consider this child to be a part of the church.
I am loathe to send my children, my young warriors to be primarily trained by my enemies. Also, I will not throw my sons and daughters to wage war before they are of a waring age.
Exactly. David was young, but he was skilled in combat both martial and spiritual when he faced off against Goliath.
Amen
That is right on point well said!
I immediately discount the opinion of suburbanite with vocal fry complaining about misinformation.
It's easy to keep your kids Christian when the Christianity you're giving them is so lukewarm, nuanced, liberal and worldly that the evil of this world never really offends their sensibilities enough for them to have to actually rely on their Christianity for strength, support, and most importantly, TRUTH.
Could not agree more. Truth is churches are filled people that are just playing church.
@Kinu Grove yeah, we left a 'make believe' church this last Summer when it finally became crystal clear that they were always going to tailor worship, doctrine, preaching, pastoring, and fellowship around what 'conservative worldly' people could stomach.
Amen
Preach
This deserves an amen and clap.
I would sooner trust my child to a pit viper than the public school system.
Ya, at least with a pit viper there is no pretense.
Pit vipers would more likely leave your child alone if your child doesn’t actively try to mess with it 😆
Seeing my local school district promote an LGBTQ book and doing a book drive with drag queens is more than enough to tell me what's happening in our schools around me...
I teach at a private school ministry of my church, having been the product of public school and I can’t fathom ever allowing my kids go to public school. Run!!!
She is lying to herself, she has a family of teachers to defend. She has no idea of how classes in math, reading, history, etc., are being taken over by marxist trained teachers, who put the subject (math) aside, in order to liberally expound on the plight of Juanita and José in the word problem. I have seen this in a very 'nice' public school, parents totally unaware. Literature subjects were how to save the world from pollution, not bad in itself possibly, but when we are considered useless eaters, and animals (not cows) and bugs are more important than people.
I notice she said they graduated with a world class education... Lol...worldly wise but foolish to put your children at risk so that you can pursue your career. So much wring with what she says...hard to answer each one!
Marxist trained teachers? Lmao. This some pearl-clutching bs. Where is the Marxist teacher training school??
And you’re complaining about kids having to write about how to save the world from pollution…. Yikes. Have you not heard about the Ohio derailment?!
I’ve been homeschooling for over 25 years and that community is as diverse and vibrant as you can find with a high quality education catered to each child’s learning styles. Homeschooling isn’t cookie cutter.
2 min in and I have so much to say. All these things she’s pointing out as unique to public school are the same in homeschool as well. We have friends of all different races, economic status, and even with special needs. In the public school I grew up in the kids with special needs were not in our class they had they’re own special class. No one got to know who they were. And I know it’s still like that in many schools today.
What does 'world-class education' mean, that they came out thinking and acting like the world? Is that really what Christian parents should be desiring for their children?
When the aspiration of many evangelical parents is to have their kids grow up to be like Joseph, imagining having the favor, wealth, and power of a pagan king to be the measure of a life well lived; It's no wonder to me why the path to that end is one paved by a secular worldview. It is the same target the pagans are trying to hit for their children.
My priority is a “world class” faith. Academics is indeed important but it is secondary to training them in Christ. Our priority is raising children for the Kingdom - Not a world class education (which doesn’t exist in the public system anyway)!
I’m sorry but what public school has ever provided a “world class education” ???😂
I was patting myself on the back for being one of those very diligent parents who helped our daughter navigate public school and leave as a strong Christian until Doug’s last sentence about with all that effort, we could have started three Christian schools! I think he’s right.
This is just an exposure of her cope.
She chose her ‘career’ over her children. That’s all that is to be gleaned from her posturing
In the full video she states that she felt she couldn't tolerate being with them all day.
Homeschool or send your kids to private school if you are able
Most private school teach the same Darwinian junk as public ones unfortunately.
I am a bit confused: if we're denying that we're sending the kids to the school to be "salt and light" (4:18), how can we also say that we ought to send them to those schools for the positive "impact" it will (or should) have on the other families (13:05)? What positive impact are we sending Christian kids to have on the other families that differs from a "salt and light" impact? Do we just send them with good snacks to share?
It sounds self contradictory to me too! Maybe she was talking "salt and light" in the sense of evangelism as in trying to persuade others ... otherwise it makes no sense ..
Your not confused. This is just the logical result of thinking in reaction when someone like her talks. She isnt honest and she has a very obvious agenda.
She's virtue signaling
That lady was a mass of misinformation and contradictions.
She's just being tricky. "Oh no," she says, "the kids aren't the salt and light, the parents are."
If her kids are grown and out of the school system, how does she know what they're teaching?
It's gotten to the point where if I hear someone use the word "misinformation", I tune them out
It's definitely one of the many overused, vague, undefined, perjoratives and misnomers they throw around now. It's right up there with "conspiracy theory", "bigot", "racist", "intolerance", "love thy neighbor", "anti-vaxxer", every phobe, ist and ism, and such alike. The point is to throw it out so it demeans, invokes fear and defensiveness, dehumanizes, and silences. Usually when it's used I go harder because it means I'm right where I need to be. I ignore their fake labels altogether.
yep. when someone is using the buzzwords of a godless culture you can safely assume who/what is shaping their worldview. I was suprised to hear she was a Bible teacher. Sounds like she might be on the path of Beth Moore. We shall see in a few years. In meantime I have stepped away from women Bible teachers all together because they have betrayed me too many times.
@@DarthBalsamic -- As the saying goes, when you are catching flak, it means you are over the target.
@@gregb6469 this
Wut
I went to public school my entire life and it was horrible. I hated being there every single day. Now my son goes to a private Christian school and is thriving, loves school, has good friends from good families with solid morals and most importantly, faith in Christ. What a difference it makes, but people will make excuses forever to justify sending their kid to the fire pit aka public school
Thank you for covering this! Allie Beth Stuckey @Relatable had a really good take on this, too! Jen Wilkin uses a lot of logical fallacies & gaslighting. I don’t think I could stomach one of her Bible studies after hearing what she said.
Public schools are a terrible idea. Sometimes they don't work out as badly as they could.
Also, schools have a track record of hiding stuff from parents. 'Knowing what the school district teaches' isn't always that reassuring.
Parents first duty is to their children. So long as their actions are not in themselves immoral, their actions must maximize their children's (and spouse's) benefit. Everybody else's benefit comes second. Else we are no better than heathens.
A Christian in public school essentially has to be taught the whole thing again, a second time, at home (nowadays, maybe even the math). It seems to me more reasonable to educate your kids once than educate then and re-educate them.
Great point
So much work and so little time. No excuses so back to the grind. Doug Wilson and Canon Press bringing the HEAT of the Gospel truth y'all. Nobody does it better.
Thank you for this commentary. I was looking for a logical response to her view on Christian education.
Thank you, Doug. Well said.
“I am so much of the world I don’t even notice the schools being bad.”
As a public school educator, it can really depend on so many things: administration, overall leadership, school boards, socio-economic conditions of the school and the home lives as well. I’ve taught in amazing public schools that invited the churches, prayer and Bible studies into the school. One school was presenting the Gospel to K-5 students in the Bible club after school. I’ve taught in inner city schools where a church presence in the school would’ve been amazing, I’ve had Christian families leave the public schools who had no business homeschooling their children because their homes were chaos and in no condition to homeschool. If you know anything about the public schools in and around where Jen Wilkins goes to church, they are some of the best schools in the nation: FlowerMound, Texas. Additionally, to pretend that all private schools are bastions of righteousness and harbors of superior learning is a misconception as well. Some private institutions are just bank rolled by some wealthy parents and the academics are horrible. Some private schools are little more than country clubs. It all depends on the school and the spiritual climate of the community. To make this a one size fits all approach and solution is short sighted and myopic at best.
Extremely well said! Thanks.
@@GemsOfGrace amen and amen. thanks!
"As a public school educator"
Your bread and butter is families keeping their kids in public school.
Your bias is blaring.
@@nicolcacola Hi Nikki, thank you for the comment. As a teacher, it really is not up to me who or does not keep their children in school. I was blessed to have been homeschooled as a child. Again, just trying to make the point…it’s not a one size fits all scenario. If ever there was a mission field it would be in many public schools. Pray for those teachers who profess Christ.
I think public education can be beneficial, but that's not really the point of the matter. We need to ask ourselves which is a better experience and more conducive to building up a child's faith on average. Even if we compare the best public schools with the best Christian private schools, which one do you think meets those goals better? The calculus here is pretty simple.
Are we often faced with non-ideal scenarios? Yeah, but that's why there should be some context relative sensitivity here. Sometimes there are no ideal Christian institutions in a particular local area. In that case, a parent might not have many options available for their kids schooling - that's fine. They just need to get real about the downsides and consequences of public school and take appropriate action to safeguard their kids through catechism, church attendance, church activities and functions, etc.
My children are children. My conviction for homeschooling my children comes from Deuteronomy 6. There may be a time when my son goes to a private high school but I also was a public school teacher myself before I had him and know the garbage he would be taught in public schools.
Our homeschool co-op is full of racial diversity, socio-economic diversity, and a mix of family situations, so he will have experience with a variety of children. Public school doesn’t hold the whole market on diversity.
If my kids were still in elementary school or even middle school, I absolutely would not send them to public school these days. My son is now in public HS, 10th grade. We homeschooled the last two years & he hated it. He wanted to go back to school & play basketball with his friends. He’s a smart kid & knows what’s good & evil…when he’s not sure, he talks to us & we discuss it. I gave him the choice about school. At his age I didn’t want to force him to homeschool & be miserable & we can’t afford private school. Everyone’s circumstances are different…I don’t believe we should judge each others personal choices in this area. I pray for my son everyday driving him to school. It’s really disheartening to hear many believers bashing parents for “sending them like lambs to the slaughter” I trust in the Lord, not your opinions! That being said, good discussion, thanks for the video 😅
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 2 Cor 6:17 That is a hard one to get around. Lord also said to Judge righteous judgement John 7:24 he also says when a Christian sees another Christian doing something wrong "preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2 Titus 4:2
I wish I could have been home schooled just to develop a closer relationship with my parents and siblings but, I was able to share Christ with a couple of my public school teachers and one eventually became a Christian. It takes a strong personality and involved parents to come out of public education unscathed. Wherever they are schooled, teach your kids to think, question and reason with a Biblical basis.
Most kids are not strong enough, until kids are adults they are under their parents authority and their parents faith to protect them until they are mature enough to know have a solid foundation with Christ.
My brother just had a big issue at his kids school they are making them do the gender unicorn and teaching them about "misgendering" and all this craziness, I'm not sure how its going to turn out but he is writing letters to all the government officials in the state and meeting with the school admins..........total mess.
Thank you pastor Wilson.
The school is not the only place where your kids will see other people. It’s not about that.
It’s about what your kids are being taught.
When I started grade school during the Korean War the only Christian schools I knew about were Catholic. By the 1970s when my kids were ready for school, my wife opt'd for Christian schools because even by the 1970s things were changing rapidly in public eduction. Glad we did. This woman is kidding herself.
I went to public schools. From my experience it did give me the ability to adapt to many different social environments throughout my life and helped me be a more empathetic person. Now I wouldn't argue that I received a better education in regards to books. There were a lot of disruptions in class.
There are people that wouldn't give up their comforts for the sake of their children.
They should be made to feel ashamed.
I also want to point out that she doesn’t know what homeschool is like. She only knows what she knows and so she’s only going to point out what she has experienced. I’m glad I can say we had a good experience with my sons public school for k and 1st and we live in a conservative town BUT we still chose to pull him out and it was not easy but it’s sooooo much better. To think I could have sent all my babies to be discipled by everyone else but me hurts to think about. It’s not saying they don’t get exposure to other people but my goodness she needs to wake up and see what the other side is saying and doing and why. She’s also painting a picture that Christian’s should bow down to societal and cultural changes like we ought to be doing public school for the good of the community. Hahahaha she does realize that those of us who
DON’T go to public school get to be in the community daily and actually learning real world experiences. And this wasn’t a true debate IMO.
As a person who attended public school through 8th grade in the 80s, I can say that our little country school still had a heavy Bible-based morality system since we had a heavy presence of Catholics in our rural area. I think I could count the people on one hand who actually didn't claim church attendance somewhere. But as it came time to go on to high school, my parents opted to send me to private school. I went to a Catholic school for 9th grade because my parents weren't aware of any protestant Christian schools around at the time. During that year, I learned that it wasn't much different than my elementary public school. But again, that's because our area was so prominently Catholic, with most of the rest being involved in one of the Protestant religions. I finished out my high school years at a Christian prep school. The kids were the same there. But the teaching I received was worth every penny and has stood me in much better stead in my adult life. I was being taught how to follow orders in the other schools. But in the Christian prep school, I was taught how to actually think for myself to solve problems in a way that actually works, not only in scholarly realms, but in all areas of life. I truly wish my parents had known about /that/ school earlier, but God's plan is perfect. The truth is kids are kids no matter where you go. They regurgitate whatever they are being filled up with. But the difference really lies in the curriculum and who's teaching it. I know of instances in which a child with social anxiety was forced from homeschool into the public school system by her father to 'be salt and light' in a rough public high school. To this day, I do /not/ understand that mentality. As much as I don't understand how anyone could tear down a Christian teacher who is actually trying to be salt and light in the public school system. I have several Christian friends who are teachers in public schools. They do a wonderful job, but in many areas, their hands are tied. It's still a good thing to have them there, though.
Kids regurgitate whatever they are being filled with. 👏👏👏
You can know what's in the textbooks. You can know what teachers are saying when you're around.
And you can know what questionable things the teachers are doing/saying that your kids pick up on as inappropriate and remember to tell you about.
You cannot know what's being taught in public schools.
I am torn on this. I learned about Christ in public school from some girls who were committed Christians. They lived out the gospel and it was attractive to me. I wanted to know what they had. I have no answer to this issue. I am just glad He put me in the right place at the right time and used it for His glory and my salvation. I am not advocating either position. I pray for our kids and these families having to make these decisions.
My only issue with this discussion on is parents have very little control over if their children will choose Christ due to private vs public schooling. You train your children and then they have to make their choices I don’t find either school domain more successful in changing hearts for Christ
I've heard it argued that it's a sin for parents in America in 2023 to send their kids to public school. And while I'm not convinced of that, Wilkins' argument is so breathtakingly idiotic that it pushes me that way. In what universe does the Christian ethic demand that I deliberately harm my family for the sake of those who are outside my family?
"why should I set my kid on fire to keep other people's kids warm?" -Heidi St. John
I don’t WANT my kids sitting next to rainbow flag kids and seeing their weird parents pick them up from school. This is why we’re homeschooling.
This is just basic hatred. Some people are gay. Grow up.
@@aallen5256 I’m 100% okay with being “hateful” in that instance even though it’s a normal aversion to degeneracy. Homosexuality is a cull to gene pools. It’s not natural. We need to stop pretending that it is.
@@jbb8261 It absolutely is natural though. Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex is observable in over 1500 animal species, literally in every single animal group and on every continent. And in humans it’s evidently been occurring since before the bible! Your hatred is not normal, and we need to stop pretending that it is. It’s induced by indoctrination!
@@Charles.Wright totally reasonable equivalence. nothing fallacious to see here
@@aallen5256 Not hatred. A clear view of reality.
Do you hate the effluent in the sewer? No? Wanna bathe in it?
I’ve been waiting and hoping for this response! Thanks Canon
I used to have great respect for Jen Wilkin until...I listened to this debate in full. She is incredibly naive if she thinks her school district does not have teachers who do not support and promote the LGBTQ and anti-Christian agenda. We live in a small town in Ohio and public school teachers at our church have said it's present at our town's high school.
I went to public school in the 60's where my self- esteem was so damaged in front of my whole gym class by the gym teacher. I was so embarrassed that there was no way I was going to share this with my parents who were very godly and who would have been troubled by it. We moved in my high school years and I attended a Christian High school which was good, but a stretch financially for my parents who were in ministry. When my husband I had children, we felt a great conviction to homeschool. We wanted to shape our children's worldview and their view of themselves. No teacher will love your children or have the desire that they succeed in school like you will. It is our job as parents to disciple our children. We have not been given the responsibility for anyone else's children, though where we see need, we should help, of course. Jen Wilkin is way off base. It seems she's trying to validate the choice she and her husband made...
She's playing the "choice-privilege" card. My decision to send my child to Christian school will not be influenced in the slightest by speculation about what my or my child's absence might mean for those left behind in the government schools. Not even a little bit. And I'm past liberal guilt-tripping ...
You don't need the public school to expose your children to people from different backgrounds, involvement in your church can do it.
If she considers the government school her mission field, she can easily be involved through volunteering and participating in school board meetings without sacrificing her kids on their altar.
It's not even an option if you love your kids and care about their souls.
Where is her husband? Obviously not leading their family or he wouldn't be allowing any of her tom footers. Throwing your children to the lion's den isn't loving them, it's hating them.
Foolery
Government schools treat Christ as irrelevant - at best. That's pretty much all I need to know as a Christian parent. And from what I know from God's Word, it will be on that point that I will be judged by God.
So I'm in the process of my first and last year working in a private Christian School to which belongs to the church we attend. It has been the worst train wreck experience of my life. I got to see all of the truth of the school. There is no Discipline of the families or the children. So the children get away with murder daily. 1st graders cussing across when they're told what to do you name it, getting in fights and putting their hands on other. And the school does nothing to correct any of it. their behavior because of their sad life story. The teachers quit after one year of working there each year so they are in constant need of finding teachers. Situations at every private school are not the same. I think ultimately is up to each family and their relationship with God and the way God leads them. be so glad for my time to be up at a job. And to pull my children out of this very corrupt Christian School. Their whole model is we teach the gospel but then we never give no discipline otherwise. I don't think that's how God designed it. alcohol is extremely high where the school is. The school lied to me about what they do ultimately. people have caught them in the same lies. I may be pursuing homeschool with my kids from here on out. Pray for us.
Homeschooling is a lot of work, but it’s very rewarding. You have to get into the mindset that your mom teaching, your not their teacher as in a public or private school. In thinking that way it gives you a lot of freedom to teach what your kids love and interest are not always just following the curriculum. ❤️
There's good and bad just like anything else
I appreciate you bringing out this, God bless stay strong. That graduation was not an honable God fearing standard.
40hrs/wk humanistic indoctrination > 1 hr/wk Sunday school.
That’s sad if Sunday school is the only means of Christian education.
Not everyone has the luxury of private school. Even with the nonsense being taught in public school, you could still get a good education just as long as the parents are involved.
Homeschooling is also an option. Not everyone can afford private school.
Never heard of homeschooling. Is it like house call but for teachers?
@@RunFunkyWolf
No. It’s school at home. Parents receive curriculum, and the parents work with the children. There is a teacher that the homework is submitted to, but the work is done at home. My younger sisters did homeschooling for their high school years and graduated early.
@@jesuschristsaves9067 So you have to hire a teacher? Because not everyone has a talent for teaching complicated stuff. I know I don't. With the stuttering and all.
@@RunFunkyWolf no. There are teachers that already specialize in that type of work.
@@RunFunkyWolf I can’t send links because of certain channel policies, but look up some homeschooling options for yourself.
I spent over 20 years in my local public school district, first as a college volunteer, then as a student teacher, then as a teacher for 17 years. I can tell you first hand that the experience being a Christian educator in a secular environment degraded more each year. By last year I could not continue on. We removed our children and placed them into private school, where indeed their education is already far superior.
I don’t know if Jen Wilkin is willfully ignorant or truly lives in a bubble with a healthy public school, but the system is rotten from the top down. And a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit.
God can do anything in any environment, but Christians must have our eyes open. Our babies are being discipled every day…the question is, in what?
Anyone else notice how these types (Wilkin, Chandler, Piper, Stanley, etc.) never put themselves in situations or environments where they can be called out for their serious errors? It's purposeful.
Not all fear-based decisions are bad. We don’t touch hot stoves do we?
I am a pastor and have seven kids and I have sent, so far, 4 to public high school and three did well and one struggled. As a matter of fact, three were able to advance the Gospel in the lives of people and my oldest was a captain of the football team (120 players). I have seen kids thrive and fail in all sorts of situations. To broad brush is not helpful and to shame good meaning Christians is wrongheaded. Please disregard the temptation to act like the world - in condemning or gossiping about how parents being sinful and wrong, for sending kids to a public school. I have known a lot of kids in Christian schools that are much more inclined to act "like Rome" while having a veneer of morality that seems like Christianity. Also, remember that some public schools are better than others depending on where you live. Pastor Doug, there are better subjects to take aim at.
My public school experience here in the US was not good. I think that Christian parents should avoid sending their kids there at all costs. It's like placing your family in the lions' den and hoping that they won't get eaten alive.
So Jen knows what every teacher in her district is teaching at all times? Bold claim
I’m from Southern California the most ethnically diverse school I went to was in a Christian school. The most racially segregated school was a public school. I also got a far better education in the private school
Same, except the part about Southern California.
Making decisions based on fear of a bad outcome, is not necessarily unwise.
Here in Denton in N. Texas, the public school system seems a significant part of kids changing course from their parents' faith, despite Christian parents and regular churchgoing. It's painfully routine for them to drop church and faith and moral lives..., filled with Christian teachers just 15-20 minutes up the road from her church.
I can't think of an ISD in the DFW area that she could be so omniscient about that would not be compromised. She will not name the ISD because discerning Christians will call her out after research.
Stealing-taxes is a sin, Abusing children is a sin.
@@brittianyclements1821 -
Agree with your analysis and comments. The gal is pretty condescending in her assumption of parents not public schooling. Firsthand it was for us and disgustingly corrupted was the case. And I know of several, so called self professed Christian teachers in the public school system who have remained and or compromised themselves for a paycheck. No excuse in my eyes.
What am I supposed to do if I have three kids, don't qualify for tuition assistance, and my wife is struggling to homeschool? I ask seriously because it has been a great weight for me.
I'm trying to weigh whats my responsibility vs trusting the Lord
Doug Wilson was very respectful and gentle with this lady.
She is no doubt much smarter and more educated and more godly than I am.
And hopefully her family is all good and godly and well... but....
She seemed to be coming from the perspective of the 1950's public schools in America.
And even "good" public schools.... don't they get federal money and therefore influence? ... and the textbooks? .... not to mention the underlying non-Christian/Biblical presuppositions underlying everything taught (i.e. no neutrality).
It just seems that this intelligent, educated, no doubt godly lady is living in a dream world regarding public education and the Christian alternatives.
Thanks pastor Wilson!
5 years from now, we'll count how many of her kids are apostate (sadly)
Yikes. What a horrible thing to say.
@Aaron Welsh hopefully it will be zero. Hopefully her kids will reject the flimsy, hyper-nuanced, woke, and ineffective faith of their parents that seeks to "humanize conversations" about sin and allows women pastors (just as long as we call them a different title), and instead, believes the robust, bold and brave faith of the Bible. Is saying the obvious about kids leaving the kind of Christianity that the Village Church espouses more offensive than the Christianity they promote?
A perspective:
I'm a Christian, and I was born and raised in the church. I've also been in public schools my entire life, from preschool to now. I'm a senior in High School. As I've gotten older, I've seen the presence of liberal "woke" ideology in schools, the gender neutral bathrooms they've built and the pride flags they hang up, and I won't deny it exists. I've had my faith tested plenty of times, been criticized for my views plenty of times, and I've had the opportunity to share my faith with the friends I have made, as well as build close relationships with non-Christians. For extra context, I live in California.
My cousins up until recently lived in China as missionaries. The children in that family have grown up essentially living and breathing Christianity. I would certainly agree that they are steadfast in their faith, perhaps even in ways that I am not. That being said, the children in that family have never really been exposed to alternate perspectives. Recently, they started living with us and going to the public schools I went to when I was a bit younger. Often times I hear them mocking beliefs held by their peers or things taught in school like evolution for example. It hurt me to hear from my own family essentially the same mocking and patronizing that I had received from "the other side" so many times.
Having my faith challenged and being forced to defend my views has made my faith overall stronger and helped me see it's something worth fighting for and standing on. Being exposed to other views has allowed me to respect them and understand where people are coming from and why they hold the perspectives they do. I do see these as possible benefits of being in the public schooling system.
Thank you for that perspective! Your parents have done an outstanding job.
Apparently this lady’s teachers aren’t in the same unions and didn’t go to the same teachers’ colleges as everyone else’s.
She’s years away from her kids being in High School. She refuses to acknowledge that things have changed significantly over that time. She acquiesced to the world
Barely 1 minute in and I can feel my blood pressure rising. Exposing your kids (not sure the age/grade) to "a broad array of kinds of people", which includes sexual deviants is a GOOD thing to her?! Bless you, Pastor Doug, but I just can't with this. (As the kids on the internet used to say.)
I love teachers innately. I thank teachers I meet like I thank Policemen and Firemen. They have a critical and thankless job. And as long as I have the option, I'm not sending my kid to a public school.
Your kids being exposed or meeting people of different socioeconomic backgrounds and races could all happen at church. If your church is a reflection of your community, then you will meet that diversity in your church. That's where I met people from different backgrounds, and made friends with them. Most kids I know who went through public school did not get through college with their faith intact. They may have left the house saying they were Christians, but by their mid-20s it started to look like they had just been pleasing their parents. (This has happened to homeschooled kids I knew too, but it is leaps and bounds more common with kids who went to public school)
This was an incredibly wise take. Very well done on this one.
Her vocal fry and uptalk is too much to handle. Simply unbearable to listen to.
But...but..she's sooooo winsome!!!
It is hard. I decided to homeschool and I am careful not to make any Christian parent feel wrong for sending their kids to a public school. Not everyone can afford to send their kids to a private school or able to have a parent home teaching.
@M G I agree. But Pharaoh is asking both parents to build his bricks! I’m speaking to myself too as we’re at a place where we have to make a decision on how to be able to afford private or how we can homeschool? Keep us in prayer
She sounds like me when I was in middle school and wanted to go to public school. Public school was not helpful.
thats a strange desire. why did you think public school would be better?
@@nohomo4774 most of my friends were in public school
I'm from NYC, and if public schools are run the same throughout the country, I went to the school based on my address. So if your community is not economically or ethnically diverse then your public school won't be either.
Ms Wilkin's comment that her kids were in a bible study in high school startled me. The public schools where we have lived (mid-Atlantic, southeast) would not tolerate having a bible study in school even when our child was growing up, two decades ago. (Nowadays, the mid-Atlantic school area has gained a reputation for having certain definitely non-biblical books in their libraries and shows featuring men wearing cosmetics and costumes.) When my now-grown child and child's spouse have children, I hope they can find private/parochial schools espousing Judeo-Christian values - or I guess I'll be moving and homeschooling.
No no, no, no, no!!!! I have first hand experience of this. We just took our 10, 8 and 5 yr olds out of a state "faith" school. All kids doing very well academically (according to state tests). All popular with peers, teachers, they were assets to the school. But the school was always seeping in to them, FAR more than our kids could be salt and light. Our kids are amazing kids but they have their own sin issues, they didn't need 29 others surrounding them and compounding it. So much more i could say. We're feeling wobbly and in the unknown now, but despite the quiet disapproval of christian friends, my husband and i finally did right by our kids and pulled them out. Now please, can you get a Logos school in England, thank you very much 😂
The last line! Golden!