Understanding Nav mode combat, StarCitizen PVP
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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I'm miss watching you Bruce Lee 20 guys at once. I understand the previous flight model wasn't very accessible to newer players but it was undeniably more entertaining to watch.
Me too man
@@Avenger__Oneare you enjoying MM at all, any redeeming qualities, or are you just making peace with it? 😅
@@Bubblegum_Roninwe had about 20 active ppl during the week and 30+ on the weekend. Now we only have 3 ppl at any time that play. Everyone that stopped playing all said MM was the reason, even the pve guys said f it.
@@mayoluck interesting and sad. I just posted in regards to an idea I had and would love to hear what a hard core PvPr thinks about it.
So you don't have to look for it, I'll repost it here..
I had an idea for resolving speed between SCM and NAV modes which I made a lengthy post in another TH-cam video, but the gist of it was to limit power plant energy between 2 out of 4 power modes with some exceptions at the cost of overloading and damaging components.
The power plant has an overload meter shown on the MFD.
Engaging a mode is at a push of a button with up 2 modes (typically engaged - more on this).
Switching a mode on takes several seconds and isn't instantaneous but can be dramatically decreased if the Quantum drive isn't primed (more on this).
The 4 modes are:
- Weapons (energy only, but if weapon mode isn't engaged, tracking will be off so ballistic weapons and missiles are "dumber")
- Shields (when not engaged, only provides a little protection against bumping up against an object at low speeds, such as when landing)
- Engines (When not engaged, only provides MM SCM type speed)
- Quantum Drive (Can have a "primed" state which allows for a quick alignment and subsequent jump but if priming is off, then switching modes is much faster).
So as an example of how this system could function; a pilot could have weapons and shields active and functioning at full power with speeds at MM SCM limits, but could also engage engines at the risk of damaging any of the engaged systems, including the power plant.
This gives the pilot more options and control and even further opens co pilot systems management.
No system is perfect but this kind of combines pre master mode flight model with MM without artificially limiting ship systems via lore/ship manufacturers.
Me too. Damn it was great.
I really like the way you apply jet fighter energy fighting logic here. Took me a while to work out what your terminology means in this context, but hey, it works.
"Lets try spinning, that's a good trick"
Keep em coming brother. Well done!
Thanks for showing us how to best use the current system, I’m sure it will keep changing and you will continue to show us the best way to use what we have.
That looks like In Atmosphere Dogfighting. Why a hard limit in speed in space? Your Thrust works only up to a specific speed. Un-Realistic
Does anyone think this type of fighting is fun? I just don't see this game being appealing to the majority of players if this is the combat.
Define “this type of fighting”.
@@Crittek The video. That I commented to. Did you not watch it?
Its bad as fuck
@Coldsealion
I had an idea for resolving speed between SCM and NAV modes which I made a lengthy post in another TH-cam video, but the gist of it was to limit power plant energy between 2 out of 4 power modes with some exceptions at the cost of overloading and damaging components.
The power plant has an overload meter shown on the MFD.
Engaging a mode is at a push of a button with up 2 modes (typically engaged - more on this).
Switching a mode on takes several seconds and isn't instantaneous but can be dramatically decreased if the Quantum drive isn't primed (more on this).
The 4 modes are:
- Weapons (energy only, but if weapon mode isn't engaged, tracking will be off so ballistic weapons and missiles are "dumber")
- Shields (when not engaged, only provides a little protection against bumping up against an object at low speeds, such as when landing)
- Engines (When not engaged, only provides MM SCM type speed)
- Quantum Drive (Can have a "primed" state which allows for a quick alignment and subsequent jump but if priming is off, then switching modes is much faster).
So as an example of how this system could function; a pilot could have weapons and shields active and functioning at full power with speeds at MM SCM limits, but could also engage engines at the risk of damaging any of the engaged systems, including the power plant.
This gives the pilot more options and control and even further opens co pilot systems management.
No system is perfect but this kind of combines pre master mode flight model with MM without artificially limiting ship systems via lore/ship manufacturers.
So careful power management essentially. So not only must you watch your shields and boost etc but u must manage power distribution to enable high speeds and or risk overheating perhaps by squeezing out more power to put a finishing move on someone. A risk vs reward system for more speed at crucial moments if I'm reading it right. Interesting.
@@karmabad6287 you got it. Got a co pilot with good comms? You can communicate when you want to punch it and the co pilot can manage that in the background and communicate by giving you feedback about how much time you got.
Using 3 out of the 2 systems will put a steady strain on the system that the copilot is carefully monitoring, you suddenly boost without asking if you've got the room for it and you run the risk of system failure. You wouldn't need a copilot as well, but a copilot would make a difference if you trained together.
Further adding to this concept, you could just run ONE system in order to gain a further advantage (extra speed, weaponry, shields) at an albeit lesser risk, but still at a risk of overloading that particular system and less the power plant itself.
Back to the basic system, it's really as you nailed it, risk vs reward with a system that lets you define that as you play.
@Bubblegum_Ronin post it on spectrum. It's definitely worth considering. Now if I remember clearly the jump gate teasers did show an mdf with a different power management setup. Perhaps cig already has plans for something like this. Pass the hopium.
@@karmabad6287 thanks for reading and the feedback, more than you get on most of the TH-cam comments! 😆
I thought it might make for an interesting system and if you think so, maybe others will too. My hope is to allow a kind of crossover system between pre MM and MM so CIG gets what they want, generally speaking, but still gives the best of the best an edge if they're willing to train it, yet won't be easy and also makes having an actual copilot worth it.
Anyways, thanks for suggesting I post on Spectrum, there's never enough hopium to go around!
Interesting idea. If I understand you right this would be kind of a 2/3 system. I'd personally like to see components with more than a third power draw for some extra benefit, so have it be tied more closely to the choice of components, but in general I'm not a big fan of the multi-speed system. I'd rather have one asymmetrical (egg) top speed, with the potential for components to adjust those per ship as long as the components get enough power.
Very nice Video.. Learned a lot. thank you. Greatings from Germany 👍😉
Can't Nav out if Mantis is using inhibitor, got ganked twice just trying to get to Area18 ship show :(
I will show you what too do there
GiG broke nav cooldown so scanning for mining would be possible until 4.0. Intended is the long nav cooldown we saw in the first iterations. I'm actually happy they made this call. What we really need is a counter to kiting, either more fwd thrust or bleeding off speed when going backwards.
"We need mastermodes so that fights can be closer" lol. Instead we get a long range snooze fest of kiting
Just cause its how players are using it now doesn't mean it will stay like this example being all of avengers previous videos being irrelevant now with mm. I expect player kiting this way will result in it changing.
fights are still happening in close range, that's when it's effective. Kiting is just a tactical manouver.
When in doubt, NAV tf out xD
Seriously though, very cool to see you can still get kills in a big 1vx, though the margins for error are smaller.
Thanks for the video!
Oh man great action, sad I missed out on this!
What we need is in AC training in ship combat starting one one two v one and so on, with swishing between NAV mode and SCM mode.
The firegroup assignments are still broken right? when you switch from nav to scm, the MFD doesnt remember your settings.
That's why I bind both groups to a single trigger
The switching from nav mode to combat mode shouldn't be this easy. I think that once you fire your guns or get hit, you should not be able to switch to nav mode. They should make it punishing to do so if they are not going to remove the feature, like you slow down to crawl speed (30m/s) for a very long time while losing your shields in order to switch to nav mode.
This leaves rooms for the quantum dampeners to have a purpose. As they previously were pretty pointless shy of pulling out of qt
Imagine they put all that MM effort into making an tutorial for the old flight model .. just imagine
This was my biggest concern with MM, dealing with those people going in and out of Nav mode/ trying to “chase” someone (in situations of bounties) someone who just stays in nav and runs away constantly. Thought its been a while since I last was in the verse and haven’t experienced MM fully.
I'm not saying this is easier but this new flight model seems more about tactics and less about flight maneuvers/skills. I find it completely boring and have almost no interest in firing up the game. Almost uninstalled a few days ago cause I haven't fired it up since the last free fly. This is after getting super excited watching your training videos with the old system where it seemed like the pilot flying skill had almost no ceiling. Makes me sad. Still appreciate the lessons.
No thrill I just get rammed or become a dps sponge
Being really into big ships and multicrew gameplay...these past few updates are especially painful and I am reminded consistently that Yogi, whether he intended to or not, has simply resigned us to being targets for interceptors.
@KiithnarasAshaa almost like they want you to buy the lighting f8 you can count on a golden ticket spawning in each bunker
What do you think they'll do next with master modes?
I have no idea
@@Avenger__One Don't think CIG knows what they're doing next either 🤣
damn, i miss the old flight modell 😕
I really like your content.
but watching a master modes fight is almost as boring as flying it.
keep it up though, your doing the absolute best with the broken tools you got!
Player in AC with that exact name 😅
Nah, CIG will just bury their heads in the sand until negative sentiment boils over and CR himself can't ignore it anymore.
If I see a group online in the discord am I allowed to join the party or do I have to be an official avenger squadron member? I would like to learn more about how to work in a group.
Our channels are Public, just fall in and start learning
@@Avenger__One awesome thanks! Is the Gladius the recommend ship for the PvP 101 class or does it change with the meta? (Past Hornet, now Buccaneer)
Incredibly boring dogfighting now
I had this incredible big fight after months of little enjoyable bouts in 3.22, it made me feel like I really wanted this game in my life when it's done. Then 3.23 released and I basically haven't played for months lol.
I even tried to get into it a few times but it's so cursed. I just can't stand it. It's so clearly designed for 30+ year olds who don't even really want to fight.
100 percent
I'm 50+ and don't like it, no need to be ageist. Just makes you come across as judgemental.
I'm a veteran Player Bounty hunter and even before Master Modes. Players always run. With the new combat it's hit hard and fast. No one PvPs unless it's OrGs or a group wanting some PvP. But as soon as you show up with 2 or more Connie's everyone runs. 😂
Why do guys on Reddit hate AvengerOne so much? I posted this video there and got blasted to oblivion.
I don’t get it.
Space Tomato had A1, Splen, and Yogi on the Launch Sequence podcast, (episodes 144 + 146) and Splen is with A1 on a lot of this stuff.
I don’t understand why so many people in the community love MM. I think they just don’t want any kind of dynamic flight.
I hope CIG will listen to the top pilots. A1 wants the flight model to be accessible to everyone, but he wants the model to allow for skill expression and dynamic gameplay.
never trust a redditor. They're all resentful scrubs who hate on good players. Ask me how i know (r/destinythegame)
That looks so boring and why is everybody fighting with the same ship it just looks so jank the old flight model took skill sometimes I hop on to just to get depressed and get off before I even do anything in the game
Please give your feedback on spectrum
This is what happens when you remove the core part of physics based space combat.
How does one master using momentum in a fight?
Keeping your nose pointing towards your flight vector within 50 degrees to avoid sea saw motions and loss of speed. Essentially you WANT to stay at the speed wall as much as possible
Man, my algo hasnt been giving me your stuff... weird.
It's just the algorithm, is what it is
I feel like nav will just become the new Quantum Boost (if that ever releases)
I’m considering buying a fighter to start practicing with. Can you all make any recommendations?
Watch my Tier list
How do you get that pip with the vertical bars? I just get a circle one, very small to see
th-cam.com/video/HNluCuYo66Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0rlcMuTu9PNmB62b
Master modes is good for cig they can sell you the newest best light fighter
How do you find people who dont just spam EMs? if they straight up removed missiles from the game it would be so much more enjoyable
Skill issue. Just hit H
Seems like when im being interdicted when i go in nav i cant get top speed? I understand my quantam wont work but i think i should still have full speed..
Nope. Your qt is disabled and nav mode needs a qt drive enabled.
out of curiosity. instead of removing MM. If CIG instead implemented an actual weapon counter to nav mode. like say, missiles being sped up to easily catch naving players and they are unable to drop counter measures. or even a hyper fast missile that disables nav mode and makes you unable to engage it for a longer period. Would that that have a positive impact on the meta or would that just make things worse? thanks for answering if you happen to see this.
also bonus question. to solve multicrew ships being outranged and peppered down by lighter ships. would the addition of massive AoE flak cannons for certain size weapons and above fix that gameplay issue? for instance, if one turret on a hammerhead had flak cannons that have insane AoE and very fast travel time but very low damage. that would create a situation where any light ship even at the maximum range would have to take constant chip damage to be able to apply damage back. at the very least forcing them off of you even if it's not enough damage to outright kill it. (I bring this up because I could have sworn CIG mentioned the addition of weapons like these at some point, maybe they aren't anymore)
Thing is, being able to run away isn't the problem, and being able to do so allows for more skill expression aswell where one person can take down multiple opponents if they play their cards right, the problem is not being able to catch someone if they do run no matter ur skill, which is happening in this patch, unlike before master modes where yes you could just trichord away but the maneuver could be read by the opponent, and if they did make a right read on your escape attempt they would manage to stay glued to you, promoting more skill on both parties.
How did you remove scan mode ?
Bind Nav toggle on a separate button.
how is your trackir mounted on your monitor? i cant quite seem to get mine to track smoothly.
Slightly more left will help
Nice. I think that if they modify nav mode to take longer to switch in and out of it would solve this issue for the most part during combat
Theyve played with the nav times but the switch between nav and scm can be a really tedjous thing for some industrial ships like mining ships. They should just get rid of boosted speeds and nav mode and balance around a single asymmetrical speed limit honestly.
good video but what's in the video is just so stupid. I don't understand how CIG thinks this is good. Every single fighter is going to need interdiction equipment with this system. And at that point, why even have master modes? why not just bake the slowdown to SCM into the interdiction equipment
First like. No big deal.
hi badger
hello from redbaronace !
Look, until you do it with a blindfold, your feet on the sticks, hands on the pedals and Grogu on the PC I won't be impressed.
Wouldn't it make for a great video though...
hehe
I feel I'm watch some Starfleet level training
i.pinimg.com/originals/30/44/56/30445659e8828c9cd9e77b30ab089f59.gif
@@Avenger__One LOL
This is why I haven't played SC in over a year. Its a boring MMO in space. Kill, Mine, Pickup, deliver and Escort is all you do. Just like in dozens of other games we been playing for 15+Years. Here we see people using meta ships and just circling around each other. What isn't shown here is after you die. You waste another 30mins of your time getting all geared up and getting out another ship to play in. SC is a beautiful time waster. Doing anything in this game takes 3+hours
100%. I mentioned that this game, regardless of how beautiful it is, does 2 things consistently…
Take time outa my week from anything and everyone & money for pledges (not required) but return on investment is not there for what I’ve pledged for.
It looks like a really lame version of DCS in space.
Please put that on spectrum at the RSI website
The salty avenger?
I’m not going to bother learning CIGs rediculously arcady flight system. It’s utter trash.
I used to primarily do bounties. Now I trade and do ground missions.
I had the same issue with elite dangerous, after a few weeks of space combat I was bored, and then just traded or went exploring.
SC space combat kept me hooked since we first got arena commander, now I don't like it at all, I was bored with ship combat after a week or two of MM.
Master modes so boring. Glad you still wrecking
Maybe you SHOULD make more content pointing out why MM is stupid.
I get hated either way, im just gonna keep being me
@@Avenger__One Fair enough.
@@Avenger__OneThat's all we can ask, hold on to your integrity, not many on this site have it
sounds like MM you actually have to apply more stragetic mind. all good in my book.
Rather than applying flight skill whilst still thinking strategically. MM has no space flight feel. People should just go play war thunder for their airplane fix.
@@Jackalhit hahaha better than the arcade feel we used to have. that was just stupid. and we still have in atmo flight. you still dont have a good sim feel for atmo in SC. that is just a joke. I can not believe people wanted the arcade feel for that.
Im sorry this is just really bad... watched more than 5 minutes and there was not a single engage. I mean, the fun element is basically at 0. Pure dsc in space. Just bad
CIG Killed your content. They chose to accomodate casuals and made ALL your videos obsolete. You were once an ACE but now ur just the casual player with a little bit better aim LOL. However, this shift might work in your favor, considering most developers today design their games for the casual 40 yr old who plays a few hours a week but purchases everything in the store lmao.
Ain't that the truth brother
"I dont disagree or agree with the fact that nav mode performs and behaves this way" LOL your a CIG puppet. You know damn right master modes ruined the game. 3:20 "They should" you leaked a little
First off, rude. Second off, if you watch my strean you would know I'm definitely not, third off I've given my feedback on how MM has been a huge step back. Go take your arrogance and ignorance away from here, OR get too know me and the stream better before sending that kind of hate my way.
Thanks for the video!