Great episode. Seems like "honor killings" in response to slights and turf disputes drive the majority of violence today. 150 years ago this was commonplace among the landed gentry. In today's world of unspoken values, self-control equals success. A manager/lawyer's ability to engage in conflict without losing composure is paramount.
Absolutely Joe! Honor culture has a LOT of overlap with violence. And it's no coincidence that less "cultured" or let's say less refined individuals are more likely to come from places where honor culture is still alive and well because there's less access to and less impetus to pursue intellectual endeavors. I think that has a lot to do with violence and violent crime.
Thanks guys. I think this conversation has helped me to get a good step closer to making sense of the perceived and actual relationship between poverty and violent criminology.
Great clear-eyed and searching conversation. You never disappoint Coleman -- and now your mic is loud enough to make it a much more-enjoyable listen. So glad you fixed that issue.
Just imagine if Thomas Sowell hadn’t been erased from popular public conversation in the 80s version of cancel culture. This conversation would seem obvious & redundant to a lot more people as would the reflex eye roll from seeing the phrase “root cause”. 🙄
This interview was really mind-blowing for me because it immediately took me back to my freshman anthropology professor’s class. He lectured about a great book called “In Search Of Respect” by Philippe Bourgois. I highly recommend it. It details the mentality that this man (and the policemen that he worked with) described. I guess the author was on to something. 🤔
although i do have critiques, i think he makes some very valid points. this is why when i walk by clearly mentally unwell people in the streets in my city, i avoid eye-contact and keep my head down. the human psyche is incredibly fragile, and i do not want to be instigating any sort of emotional response in someone who is unstable. since im a woman, it can sometimes be hard because i feel like my mere existence evokes an emotional response in some men, especially if i've dressed up and put effort into my appearance because im going somewhere. great discussions as always!
It is interesting how, even though they both agree and all the listeners perfectly understand, they manage never to state "Black culture is the main culprit".
holee gawdamn! this is why i subscribe, great guest, great questions, great information. BUT it makes me sad that a channel as great as this only has 102k subscribers, should be a million. But intelligence and critical thinking are criminally undervalued.
As someone who always thought, poverty causes crime; my belief was challenged when I moved to Asia and saw real real grinding poverty, unlike anything back home, and relatively low violent crime.
@@emmanuelgarcia619 what? The popular wisdom and the subject of the this clip, is the claim that ‘poverty causes crime’, ergo lower crime and far higher poverty, casts doubt on the claim. You haven’t said anything. You made a snide comment that didn’t challenge the point.
I agree with you @EmmanuelGarcia. Those were sincere points and definitely something to consider. I wouldn’t pay much mind to the other guy’s rude comment.
@@emmanuelgarcia619 No, in Alaska leaving food out would attract bears and wolves because that is the local fauna! Point remains, leaving out food attracts animals to it.................wherever! But with crime, it does NOT correlate with levels of poverty as the OP and the clip point out: That is just your preferred dogma!
A culture which produces things like Instagram posts challenging rival gangs to fight is a culture that also keeps you poor. We have a lot of poor people in the US who climb out of it within a generation, two at worst. We see this in certain groups of Asian immigrants. NYC instituted a lottery to keep Asian kids from winning all of the positions in the elite schools, many of whom are first or second generation working class kids. Meanwhile black families are typically unaware that tests to get into top schools even exist, much less push their kids to study for them. Testing and performance metrics were introduced undermine the traditional method of getting into elite institutions: being the kid of an elite. It worked out excellently for certain poor, marginalized subgroups. Yet not others. So now they're being tossed in the name of equity. Poverty is a terrible predictor of crime. Poverty also correlates with criminality because criminality causes poverty. For every Jean Valjean in the US, we have 1000 score settlers.
A defeatist mentality often leads to both poverty and crime. When one believes there is no hope, there is indeed no hope. Many crimes are acts of frustration from those who don't pursue positive outlets for their energies. A sense of indignation and entitlement feeds into this as well. There is a very high degree of these attitudes in many lower economic strata communities. Poverty and criminality are self-perpetuating this way. You need to pretty much turn your back to these communities to escape the negativity and to escape the cycle. Very hard to do.
Hard to imagine living in a world where someone dissing your clothes/girlfriend/shoes etc is enough for you to kill them and go to prison for the rest of your life.
Social acceptance is so key to human behavior since in primitive times, being ostracized from your tribe meant the worst kind of death (exposure, wild animals, etc.) Especially for young people who have less experience and thus general confidence in their ability to handle the larger world, the thought of social ostacization is extremely fearful.
Biology, culture, and circumstance are all contributors in my view. Depending on the individual these factors will vary in the weight of influence they contribute.
Seems like killings due to slights depend on people having access to alternative means of conflict resolution (law enforcement and judicial system) and trust in those alternative means. If you don't have access to those (through either lack of access or lack of trust), the only way to protect yourself is through presenting a threatening presence. Any slight that's allowed to go unanswered can lead to you being perceived as weak thereby opening up to other slights and attack. After this behavior develops due to the environment, it passes down through culture amd upbringing, even if the original environment no longer exist. Of course, there's other causes too.
I think that in the context of the culture of machismo that they are discussing any turn to law enforcement would also be perceived as a sign of weakness. The idea of being labeled a snitch and losing respect and credibility among peers etc.
He seems to have dismissed the notion that certain expressions of machismo is unrelated to poverty. Not sure why he would not consider that. Seems intuitive that being at the bottom end of a social hieracy + scarcity of resources amongst males would produce these kinds of affects.
I realised this 15 years ago when living in Sourh Africa and comparing it to Zimbabwe, which was much poorer and yet far less violent. The Indians I worked with also said the same about India being far less violent. I realised that, for the left, inequality causing violence is a “just-so” story. Evidence for this belief is neither asked for nor provided.
When I said this to someone they said it's because those groups of people "aren't affected by the generational trauma of slavery and racism." like black Americans. Which doesn't explain it at all IMO.
@@Gabriel-pt6tq Yes as soon as the data doesn't fit their belief, they then inject further dark matter caveats to balance the equation. It's infuriating.
Your cultural values instilled by your family's values and structure as well as your community. These are the greatest influencers of ones' behavior, values, goals etc. Unstructured lifestyles including anti social, criminal behavior create poverty, they do not relieve it. Many deeply impoverished communities in US history have had relatively low crime rates. Poor Jews in NYC's lower west side in the 40' and 50's had crime, but the values of nuclear family, faith, education and work as a remedy created very positive outcomes. Recent Asian and African Immigrants are displaying similar socioeconomic performance
What type of values do you think you’re going to have in an environment that LACKS resources? Your argument is backwards - people who want to ignore that it will take resources to fix the problem ALWAYS want to make argument that its a behavioral problem and not a money issue. That way - no one has to come out of their pocket. You’re not going to have intact homes if you do not have gainfully employed men (fathers) in the home. Broke fathers cannot discipline children nor enforce anything. You may have some “manhood or values” but it’s ineffective manhood and values. If children are still poor and young men still unemployed or under employed, sooner or later they’re going to throw out those values that don’t benefit them. This argument suggest that poverty should have no consequences for the society. Funny how Huwhite people understand this when we get to “9 meals away from anarchy”
Asians and African immigrants didn’t go through slavery nor Jim Crow They came here with intact families, their social hierarchies, religion, language, and other culture orientations INTACT, unlike the American black folks who were reduced down to literally nothing. But that’s your comparison?!! Smdh
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199 most of those who’ve emigrated to the US have escaped war, political persecution and economies where resources are virtually zero. The “poor” aren’t criminals.
@@americanaforever6725 someone clearly has not sat down and looked at the crime statistics for those countries. By comparison America is one of the safest countries to live in despite all the wailing about crime everywhere. Crime is centralized in the most poor and impoverished areas in America from the inner city to the hills of Appalachia. Your social math ain’t mathin’
Poverty is a lack of money and resources - it is not a state of mind. It is a state of being. A starving person can’t have the MINDSET to become fat without actually having access to food.
@@skepticalbutopen4620 If this is true, then all NFL and NBA players would all be model citizens. Money will not suddenly force a person have mental perseverence; nor the absence of money cause a person to be intellectually lazy. You cannot buy mental or intellectual perseverence. You either have it or you do not; you don't get to choose to have it.
@@troy3456789 that’s a great point but I think you will agree, if you have greater abundance your less likely to steal. If you have grown up around those who can afford a college education, your more likely to be educated yourself. Etc. I’m not saying those with affluence don’t commit crimes, I’m saying it’s less likely. Especially because you have more to lose when affluent.
It has always struck me as odd that we can look at individuals like Lebron and rightfully recognize that some people are built completely different when it comes to strength and athleticism, but at the same time shy away from the notion that there are those in society that are born differently in regards to low intelligence, aggression, poor impulse control, and various other commonly related character traits found in criminals. We just take it as a given that the root cause of crime is poverty and yet if you look at the crime rate among Asian families living under the poverty rate in the USA, it's essentially non-existent.
Recommend the book Ghettoside to corroborate much of the explanation for violent crime levels in Los Angeles in black communities. Basically, Southern law enforcement was non-existent on the black side of towns so an honor culture arose among southern blacks which they brought with them when they emigrated west. IN LA in particular, as the black population grew, city leaders imported law enforcement from the south with the idea that southern white knew how to police southern blacks. Of course, they didn't. Today, the lack of trust in and enmity towards law enforcement in black communities in LA gives the honor culture a place to thrive. It's a theory anyway, but it reads to me as quite reasonable. Though I would also like a better understanding of how criminal economies (like the drug trade that exploded in LA in the 80s) interacts with honor cultures vs. non-honor cultures. For instance, jews and Chinese and Italians and Irish have all had their own criminal economies with varying degrees of honor cultures and it would be interesting to track the rates of violence as it relates to the core cultures. Also the notion of community wide generational poverty versus personal income. Much food for thought.
It’s not poverty per de, but the widening differences between the rich and the poor that leads to more crime. When everyone is poor crime is low, but during the most prosperous times you have greater crime rates; it’s also when you have the greatest difference between the ‘haves and the have nots’
The turf wars & honor killings rarely happen by middle and upper class people, which should clue in Rafael to how growing up in poor surroundings encourages factors that lead to increased crime
Dig further. we must then ask "what causes turf wars? We must also ask "why do some in low crime areas kill for disrespect at a much higher rate than those in higher income areas?" Fights over disrect will lead to the root if u keep diggin. Its not the root itself
Really great stuff and hard to argue with Rafael's point of view. I found the Trevor Noah analogy of a profession sports team laughable with regard to public spending in an effort to reduce crime.
Would be great to send your guests a proper microphone, if they don't have. This tinny, low-fi sound quality shouldn't be happening in this day and age. There are
Maybe it's better to say that where there is poverty, there may ultimately be a greater risk of crime down the track, depending on other factors - if we think of poverty as being one of a few leading indicators in the sense that it doesn't directly cause violence, but contributes by producing stressors that can lead to certain cultures developing among children (alcoholism, parental absenteeism, child abuse, etc.). These may produce a generation who tend towards aggressive conflict resolution, but only in places where certain ideological conditions also exist.
Dont stop at poverty. What is the root of poverty? i would guess a lack of skills or education that brings sufficient income. This begs the question as to "why low income areas have poor education". This Discussion does well to point out statics that seem to disagree with the correlation between crime and poverty, but there are likely confounding variables, like social policy, that arent obvious, which can skew numbers. Dont just ask "why do gangs kill?" we must also ask, "why gang members, who kill over disrespect, are gang members in the first place". And "why do gangs prevail in low income areas far more than affluent areas?" We can not simply dismiss this correlation based on a few numbers that disagree without getting a fuller picture. MOST crime is economicly related, so an understanding of economics is essential.
Also, always worth bringing up the lead crime hypothesis. There's pretty strong correlations between reduction of lead levels in the population and reduction of crime.
I would even go with lead as much as I would go with a lack of AC units. When it hot inside - you’re frustrated and you go outside. Now there is a much greater incidence of interaction with everyone outside.
Make sure u are diagnosising the problem, and not a symptom of a deeper problem. Crime is symptom of a deeper problem, and so is poverty. Violence over disrespect is also a symptom of the problem. The proper diagnosis will tie all these SYMPTOMS together. Keep digging. We havent found the real problem here
Every demographic commits crime. Guys on Wall Street just commit different types of crime for financial gain. Violence is part of human nature, so can apply to anyone.
That's why we are discussing rates of crime. They gave the example of poor Asian communities. So not Wall Street types. Do some poor Asians commit crime? Yes. What is the rate? Nobody argued there was a demographic that never commits crime.
Excellent discussion. Wouldn't the throw-away rebuttal be that poverty and inequality is a (at least a component) cause and post hoc reinforcement of the toxic culture?
Interesting show, what do you think of the concept that violence in the black community traces its roots back to southern white attributes inherited from low land Scottish values?
If cultures encourage an ecosystem of crime. What encourages those cultures to engage in settling disputes in this way? I grew up in a poor deep southern majority white town, and these types of disputes were normal in my high school. Is it a disbelief in the prevailing power structure to settle the dispute on your behalf? Is it because it's your only perceived outlet for adjudication?
Culture plus their belief in God, comprehension of the scripture, and general level of awareness of self along with foresight into second-order consequences on earth or in Hell, to say the least. Morality is held together by one's sense of God or lack thereof.
I think men compete against each other over the sort of status that makes you more attractive to women. Most do this in mainly productive and peaceful ways. And violent crime is higher among those with lower socioeconomic status because they have failed the normal competition for status. They really are in a desperate state where the risk is their genes may not survive. So if you cant compete economically you might still be able to dominate the other men in you community physically. These examples of not taking anyone looking down on you, not taking the slightest disrespect is directly about not poverty but status, its forcing others to fear you and "respect" you. If you the most badass mf. no one dares to look down on you. Isnt this obvious? Males are a little bit larger than females in many species be cause there is competition for reproduction, given that females are the bottleneck for reproduction. The reason males are larger is that the competition is to some degree physical. So it is not poverty causing crime, it is having low status in terms of relative poverty that puts you in a desperate position. And some proportion of men are willing to take the risky strategy of using violence to not be in the bottom of the hierarchy. So there is still competition for status in more equal societies, but in more unequal societies the competition seems to be intensified and more violent. The correlation for this is actually very strong geographically in oecd countries.
So basically some cultures (within the criminal enterprise) are like little kids on the playground who do not know how to control their emotions and get into fights all the time. But they are adults (some still kids) that have adult capacity to deliver damage, destruction, and death. Responsibility is not taught, only pride.
It sounds simple but the problem is in the heart....thou shalt not covet, though shalt not steal, though shalt not kill....the obvious is people do not honor nor think that there are certain things are absolutely wrong or justify doing them...tell them it is wrong period regardless of your status, your circumstances, your color or your sex...then seek the changed heart...I will not preach but leave it to you to figure it out
Glorifying gangsta culture, comes to mind. Inculcating hate for being well educated and study because it is something white people praise, comes to mind.
People exposed to prolonged exposure to poverty are not going to have the same mentality as those born into much greater stability. Education is not going to be valued in a situation where all the avenues to opportunities to the application of that education is in the control of other groups Gangsta culture - was facilitated by the CIA and the Iran contras that kicked off the narco economy (the largest employer) in the BC.
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199 ". ...ducation controlled by other groups..." An insult to those from the so called oppressed group that do see the value of education. En example was mentioned in this video about poor Chinese and poor blacks in NY
@@PrimalCulture talk about completely and intentionally misconstruing a statement to push YOUR narrative and propaganda Why don’t you quote the sentence in its ENTIRETY! “Education is not going to be valued in a situation where ALL THE AVENUES to OPPORTUNITIES to the application of that education is in the CONTROL of other groups” In other words - you cannot sell a dream that you do not own. You cannot sell the idea of the value of education where once you acquire that education you then must tell your children to go to other groups and BEG them for a job. That WILL NOT WORK! “Yes son - go to college and get an education and then beg BLACK PEOPLE for employment, since they control all of Wakanda” That’s not going to work, which is precisely why white folks are not trying to be in any situation or environment when they are not in power, control, and the majority.
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199 oh boy ... We have a winner! I am not t selling anything and that is you projecting your effort to sell the idea that certain minority is being oppressed. Sorry little man, but I am not here to give your delusion of oppression any attention. PS: not that it should matter, but I am a minority too!
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199 Adding salt to injury... Because I like it! Why is it that back when Jim Crow laws were a thing certain minority community had a very low unemployment rate and almost inexistent crime rate?,so another question is; why did crime increased after the civil rights movement? Asking for a friend Shall we do some math too? 13.6% black demographic 6.3% are men 51% of certain crime is committed by that demographic, so, knowing that most of that type of crime is perpetrated by men between 15-35 years old, according to the math the majority of those "issues" are committed by roughly 1% of the population because #NotAll young black men do it! Bye bye, sweetheart
Do you mean how many are religious? I never met another atheist when I was growing up in the ghetto around criminals and ghetto people. They're ALL religious.
Is culture just something that happens to a people? Does culture arise separate from who a people are physically? Does biology play any part in the formation of culture?
I think that poverty is definitely a factor, but not a direct cause. Mental illness plays its part, as well as macho culture, a poor social welfare system, etc.
It’s a straw-man argument. Violence is more prevalent in poorer black and poorer white communities. Crime is not prevalent among middle class blacks. Maybe it is a cultural issue, but poverty contributes to that culture. There are explanations of how this happens. There are plenty of aggressive middle class and wealthy males who are eager to prove their status, but they do it in other ways, by, for example, being more woke. In poor communities one of the only ways to prove your status is to join a gang and rise up the ranks. It may be possible to avoid that route but the average male will have trouble doing that. The average male born into wealth can do fine. Also, to say that poverty does not cause crime because not all poor people are criminals is like saying smoking doesn’t cause cancer because not all people get it. There are higher rates is the bottom line.
The poor person that is law abiding is a submissive personality type who has accepted his lot in society and is scared that if he challenges it he will be sent to prison etc. He is a slave type person who accepts the master's rations. The people who are poor and who don't have some sort of way of getting out of that poverty (e.g. higher intelligence, personal connections) and commit crimes to get wealth are people with a greater ego. They are people who look at the rich who get to eat better food and get better goods and say, why the fuck can't I have that? Why should I just be a janitor who has to rely on dollar store food to survive while the wall street executive who doesn't work any harder than me gets to have prime steaks and gourmet dinners every night? In a sense they have a more powerful sense of self. They take what they want because they recognize the unfairness of the lot they have been given in life. And the poor slave continues to work 60 hours a week to make 40,000 a year, and skimps on every dollar, precludes himself from every luxury. So yes, poverty is a cause for crime for people who want more than what the lot in their life gives them, and who will not accept having to go to the thrift store to buy their clothes, and only using the Mcdonald's dollar menu as the source of their restaurant meals.
This is not to say that the criminal gets what he wants from doing this. Unless he's a mob boss, or cartel leader, or drugking-pin, he barely makes anything from his crime. But the idea that this will be the reward for selling drugs or robbing a store is what attracts them. They don't want to be a low wage worker who has to live on a tight budget. They want something else from life.
@@vincentyoung8472 lol thats real low effort, you feel dumb? I'm the Karen? Says the suburban dork who doesn't know all the dudes in the hood are religious, that's funny shit. You're confused
Yes, most people that live in areas that are high in violent crime focus on that, because it's more fear-inducing than non-violent crime. In other news, people like food that tastes good more than food that tastes bad.
explanations from rap songs are not reliable evidence. Rappers are trying to make money by portraying themselves as the most cutthroat guy out there. Additionally, if rap songs are your source, rappers talk about growing up with nothing and being from “the trenches” just as much as they talk about violence.
Rappers themselves claim their lyrics are an expression of “reality” and it still has an effect on shaping the mind, both consciously and subconsciously. Studies have proven this.
Rappers themselves claim their lyrics are an expression of “reality” and it still has an effect on shaping the mind, both consciously and subconsciously. Studies have proven this.
Rappers themselves claim their lyrics are an expression of “reality” and it still has an effect on shaping the mind, both consciously and subconsciously. Studies have proven this.
Men. Male humans are violently “gendered”. Why don’t we talk more about that instead of poverty and race and culture?? Why not focus the whole conversation on men and male tendencies to perpetrate crime and violence?
Because you're from the suburbs and don't know what you're talking about...that's why. If you weren't you'd understand there's a lot of female violence in these neighborhoods as well. When I was seven I watched another woman stomp a woman to death...so please just stfu.
Because it's already accepted. And is why there's enormous bias against men in society and the criminal justice system-- that makes the racial bias looks trivial by comparison. If a violent crime is committed, everyone assumes it was done by a male. It doesn't need to be stated. There's no denial about this. There is, however, great denial about everything men to to protect people (particularly women) from violence. Men have organised society with this goal in mind. They pay the vast majority of taxes, they do all the protective jobs, all the physically laborious jobs, they're the vast majority of the police, the prison guards, they build the prisons, they're the soldiers, the firemen, the good Samaritans, the protective family member/partner. That's in addition to the fact that men are the vast majority of victims of violent crime. As with race, 90% of male violence is against another male. Also, testosterone levels have been sinking rapidly over the past few decades. Want to talk about the huge correlation between violence and lack of male influence, though? Fatherlessness? Schools dominated by female teachers? Which follows on from my points above. It takes men to prevent male violence. eg: th-cam.com/video/OdPaqt6RY_Q/w-d-xo.html
I think it’s a false question. What crimes are we talking about? There’s different motivations for different crimes. And what constitutes a crime? Many people feel that Cain Velasquez had every right to kill the man who raped his child. But the state doesn’t think so. So that’s a case where what he did is contentious in regards to wether he was committing a crime. Then there are people like tes Bundy who kill because they are crazy. You could apply this logic to any crime. Stealing. Some people steal food because they can’t afford it so the root cause would be common sense survival. Then there are people who steal for fun where the root cause is stupidity lol. Then there is drug use where many people feel as if doing drugs isn’t really a crime. There are also some things that use to be crimes that no longer aren’t. So the question itself is false. Kind of like asking why the universe exists. It’s not a real answerable question.
So according to you, there's no way to actually put conditions in to help lower crime, we can only be reactive because it's impossible to know what causes crime. I'm sorry, but that's a deeply unsatisfying answer and really just stems from an inability, or unwillingness, to engage with the data and crime models.
@@weignerleigner3037 Good luck going through life thinking some things are just impossible to answer, even when there's data on it. I'm sure that attitude will serve humans well with advancing ourselves and bringing peace, freedom, and prosperity to as many people as possible.
@@jmattia24 also I never said you can’t do anything about crime. You didn’t read my comment. I said all crimes are not the same and some things that are a crime shouldn’t be and somethings that use to be a crime aren’t today. So the question is too general and doesn’t make much sense. Poor people stealing to survive will always exist. That will never stop happening. So to say “well that’s not sufficient for me” no one cares about you or what you think. Utopia isn’t real and reality will play out the way it will wether you like it or not.
@@weignerleigner3037 you said answering the question of what causes crime is impossible. If you cannot answer what causes crime, you cannot put policies in place to prevent crime, as you don't know what you're combating. Your comment leads to only one logical position, that humans are powerless to proactively prevent crime because there's no way for us to know what actually causes crime. If you cannot diagnose a problem, you cannot fix it, and your comment said its impossible to know what causes crime; thus, there's no way for us to proactively stop it. I'm not talking about utopia, I'm talking about using critical reasoning, data, and logic to find the root cause of an issue that is well documented. You're taking a position that you think is deep, but is actually as shallow as a kiddie pool. You're literally saying we cannot comprehend what causes crime. This isn't a deep or realistic position, it's one in denial of what can be gleaned from the available data.
I haven't watched the podcast yet and I do find Coleman incredibly interesting and sensible. But I will tell you the root causes of crime without needing to watch. LOUSY VALUES. Good people don't do bad things. America has a gigantic values problem and I fear it is insoluble. Money is not the answer. Racism is not the problem. The problem is values, values and values. I shall watch Coleman's opinion with great interest! Ok. I watched and Coleman this was really awful! The podcast is supposed to be about the "Root causes of Crime". I listened very carefully and all I heard was "beefs" and culture! That is totally inadequate as any form of serious dialogue into crime. That was it? Crime is chiefly from people who have a beef because of their culture? Coleman I respect you very much but I challenge you to revisit this incredibly dangerous problem that bedevils our society and do better than that. Let's deal for example with FBI statistics that show that 54% of all violent crimes including burglary are coming from the black community which represent some 15% of the population. So let's say 54% is being caused by half of a percent in the black community. Then look at the victims who are about 70% black. Now that's a miserably shocking statistic if true and it does seem to be true. And your content that the reason is primarily "cultural beefs?" Coleman that is simply nonsense. Your a man who has not been afraid to articulate reasons on many topics. My respect for you is such that I think you should come back to this topic much much much more seriously. As a podcast on perhaps the most serious of topics you can do much better than this.
this conversation is completely useless without discussing tangible policy, coleman loves to play this pseudo intellectual centrist shooting down progressive ideas but offers no solution, the data that was offered doesnt describe the overwhelmingly obvious inequity between classes which contribute to crime, to think that investment in poor communities and a restructuring of the economy to be more socialized wouldnt eliviate the drivers for crime and gangs is simply wrong, no one really WANTS to be in a gang its the desperate economic conditions around them which makes it appealing
There is some level of criminality in all races and we all know that. It may be that narcissism is running higher in black families due to abusive, neglective or parents or parent. They may be more likely to program otherwise indefensible ideas in their offspring. Nobody is born with narcissism.
If you are born of a family that champions personal responsibility, honesty, transparency, cooperation, respect for authority, personal achievement, science as a philosophy, educational achievement, objective morals built around reducing needless human suffering; you are simply very very lucky. Your life stands a much greater chance of success in any endeavor. We don't get to choose our parents or the culture in which we are raised. We don't get to choose the worldviews of those in our lives as we grow. All we can do is encourage each other to live our best lives, and to avoid harming others in ways in which we do not want to be harmed. We would do well to surround ourselves with smart succcessful people.
@@troy3456789 here we go with the it’s a MORAL PROBLEM or a BEHAVIORAL MODIFICATION problem than a resource problem Black family was more intact post WW2 when America had a strong manufacturing base. Even if a home was divorced there were resources from the biological father and the step father. With no money - what you call “VALUES” fall on their face in a vacuum. Gotta love these people who think poor people should simply MONK their way through life, or even better believe that being a good moral prudent person has anything to do with bones capacity to make money. Your morals or values don’t have a damn thing to do with a factory shutting down or an industry relocating. Your math ain’t mathin’ Your spiritual orientation, beliefs, or values don’t have a damn thing to do with whether there are economic opportunities on the ground for most men in a community. The auto industry started in Detroit and then people moved there to work. It was not the Holy Spirit that magically created intact homes and then the automotive plant just showed up. You, like most conservatives are BACKWARDS in their economic thinking. Always trying to make things NOT about the money.
@@troy3456789 I agree with you to a certain extent as it relates to families. The dirty truth of the matter is that a lot of families are toxic and dysfunctional - regardless of race. Then add in the effect race has had on specific families and it makes a difference in what type of person you’re going to turn out to be. I respect Coleman Hughes but this one confused me. Of course there are a lot of complex and nuanced factors that play a big role in society, our problem is that we either over emphasize race or ignore it all together and that’s why things are getting worse. Personal responsibility matters but it can only get you so far in this world. We have to stop ignoring it.
Coleman, are you seriously making the argument that people's poverty has no bearing on their involvement in criminal activity?? Doesn't it go without saying that, if all these people had well-earning fulfilling jobs, most of them would not have the incentive (probably not the time, frankly) for crime? You say your conclusion is "counter-intuitive", I say it's virulently conservative and straight-up bizarre.
Did you listen to the stats in the video? Poverty higher in 2016 than 1990 but violent crime down 90%. If poverty causes crime, how does that make any sense? Coleman is dealing with a hard question, for sure. However, I think your own personal biases might be preventing you from engaging with crime data and making sound conclusions. It's why you can get two groups of equally poor people, yet crime rates will be drastically different. A lot more goes into crime than poverty, and the 100 years of data we have on the subject makes that very clear.
Careful with the generalizations there. There are plenty of white men that engage in the same culture you describe and plenty of black men that are good fathers, blue collar workers and involved in their childrens' sports teams and extracurricular activities.
I've been skeptical of Coleman since Covid. His support for mandates, even for people with natural immunity makes me doubt his sincerity and wonder where his money comes from. I basically stopped watching him after he supported big pharmaceutical companies without question
@@iboughtathing2001 I guess that's ad hominem. I was just coming here to say his reaction to covid was rather MSM. I know CIA infiltrates TH-cam and pays influential users to spread their propaganda. He made lots of ad hominem attacks on people who refused the vaccine regardless of their reasons
Great episode. Seems like "honor killings" in response to slights and turf disputes drive the majority of violence today. 150 years ago this was commonplace among the landed gentry. In today's world of unspoken values, self-control equals success. A manager/lawyer's ability to engage in conflict without losing composure is paramount.
Absolutely Joe! Honor culture has a LOT of overlap with violence. And it's no coincidence that less "cultured" or let's say less refined individuals are more likely to come from places where honor culture is still alive and well because there's less access to and less impetus to pursue intellectual endeavors. I think that has a lot to do with violence and violent crime.
Thanks guys. I think this conversation has helped me to get a good step closer to making sense of the perceived and actual relationship between poverty and violent criminology.
Great clear-eyed and searching conversation. You never disappoint Coleman -- and now your mic is loud enough to make it a much more-enjoyable listen. So glad you fixed that issue.
Just imagine if Thomas Sowell hadn’t been erased from popular public conversation in the 80s version of cancel culture.
This conversation would seem obvious & redundant to a lot more people as would the reflex eye roll from seeing the phrase “root cause”. 🙄
The whites real life uncle thomas
This interview was really mind-blowing for me because it immediately took me back to my freshman anthropology professor’s class. He lectured about a great book called “In Search Of Respect” by Philippe Bourgois. I highly recommend it. It details the mentality that this man (and the policemen that he worked with) described. I guess the author was on to something. 🤔
@Bartholomew Corvus Aaaayyy! 🙌
although i do have critiques, i think he makes some very valid points. this is why when i walk by clearly mentally unwell people in the streets in my city, i avoid eye-contact and keep my head down. the human psyche is incredibly fragile, and i do not want to be instigating any sort of emotional response in someone who is unstable. since im a woman, it can sometimes be hard because i feel like my mere existence evokes an emotional response in some men, especially if i've dressed up and put effort into my appearance because im going somewhere. great discussions as always!
That is good, it also helps you not to seem as a threat to those who are paranoid or schizophrenic.
It is interesting how, even though they both agree and all the listeners perfectly understand, they manage never to state "Black culture is the main culprit".
holee gawdamn! this is why i subscribe, great guest, great questions, great information. BUT it makes me sad that a channel as great as this only has 102k subscribers, should be a million. But intelligence and critical thinking are criminally undervalued.
As someone who always thought, poverty causes crime; my belief was challenged when I moved to Asia and saw real real grinding poverty, unlike anything back home, and relatively low violent crime.
@@emmanuelgarcia619 what?
The popular wisdom and the subject of the this clip, is the claim that ‘poverty causes crime’, ergo lower crime and far higher poverty, casts doubt on the claim.
You haven’t said anything.
You made a snide comment that didn’t challenge the point.
I agree with you @EmmanuelGarcia. Those were sincere points and definitely something to consider. I wouldn’t pay much mind to the other guy’s rude comment.
@@emmanuelgarcia619 No, in Alaska leaving food out would attract bears and wolves because that is the local fauna!
Point remains, leaving out food attracts animals to it.................wherever!
But with crime, it does NOT correlate with levels of poverty as the OP and the clip point out: That is just your preferred dogma!
A culture which produces things like Instagram posts challenging rival gangs to fight is a culture that also keeps you poor. We have a lot of poor people in the US who climb out of it within a generation, two at worst. We see this in certain groups of Asian immigrants. NYC instituted a lottery to keep Asian kids from winning all of the positions in the elite schools, many of whom are first or second generation working class kids. Meanwhile black families are typically unaware that tests to get into top schools even exist, much less push their kids to study for them.
Testing and performance metrics were introduced undermine the traditional method of getting into elite institutions: being the kid of an elite. It worked out excellently for certain poor, marginalized subgroups. Yet not others. So now they're being tossed in the name of equity.
Poverty is a terrible predictor of crime. Poverty also correlates with criminality because criminality causes poverty. For every Jean Valjean in the US, we have 1000 score settlers.
@@brother1ray well yes it does correlate with poverty. This video just pointed out splinters - it was not an all-defeating argument.
A defeatist mentality often leads to both poverty and crime. When one believes there is no hope, there is indeed no hope. Many crimes are acts of frustration from those who don't pursue positive outlets for their energies. A sense of indignation and entitlement feeds into this as well. There is a very high degree of these attitudes in many lower economic strata communities. Poverty and criminality are self-perpetuating this way. You need to pretty much turn your back to these communities to escape the negativity and to escape the cycle. Very hard to do.
"indignation and entitlement"- that describes it very well. I would add low social trust.
Hard to imagine living in a world where someone dissing your clothes/girlfriend/shoes etc is enough for you to kill them and go to prison for the rest of your life.
So true and so sad.
Hard to imagine reality? LOL. You live in that world RIGHT NOW.
@@JJ0n3z People do, I don't.
@@kkampy4052 There's only one world friend, and we all live in it.
Social acceptance is so key to human behavior since in primitive times, being ostracized from your tribe meant the worst kind of death (exposure, wild animals, etc.) Especially for young people who have less experience and thus general confidence in their ability to handle the larger world, the thought of social ostacization is extremely fearful.
Mangual is awesome. Would love to see he and Roland Fryer on the show together!
Biology, culture, and circumstance are all contributors in my view. Depending on the individual these factors will vary in the weight of influence they contribute.
Seems like killings due to slights depend on people having access to alternative means of conflict resolution (law enforcement and judicial system) and trust in those alternative means. If you don't have access to those (through either lack of access or lack of trust), the only way to protect yourself is through presenting a threatening presence. Any slight that's allowed to go unanswered can lead to you being perceived as weak thereby opening up to other slights and attack. After this behavior develops due to the environment, it passes down through culture amd upbringing, even if the original environment no longer exist. Of course, there's other causes too.
Thank you. This seems like a valid observation of a Catch 22. Hopefully Coleman and his guest will explore in the full conversation.
I think that in the context of the culture of machismo that they are discussing any turn to law enforcement would also be perceived as a sign of weakness. The idea of being labeled a snitch and losing respect and credibility among peers etc.
@@guyonthecouch9792 great point 👍
@@iboughtathing2001 thanks
He seems to have dismissed the notion that certain expressions of machismo is unrelated to poverty. Not sure why he would not consider that. Seems intuitive that being at the bottom end of a social hieracy + scarcity of resources amongst males would produce these kinds of affects.
Then the poorest ethnic groups should be the most violent.................but they are not!
Is it machismo? Or is it uncontrolled aggression due to the lack of positive male role models/an increase of single motherhood?
@@jadjr-gy8qy Or is it low IQs and high testosterone levels? The source code for violent behaviour.
I realised this 15 years ago when living in Sourh Africa and comparing it to Zimbabwe, which was much poorer and yet far less violent. The Indians I worked with also said the same about India being far less violent. I realised that, for the left, inequality causing violence is a “just-so” story. Evidence for this belief is neither asked for nor provided.
Poverty can't be the whole answer.
When I said this to someone they said it's because those groups of people "aren't affected by the generational trauma of slavery and racism." like black Americans. Which doesn't explain it at all IMO.
@@Gabriel-pt6tq Yes as soon as the data doesn't fit their belief, they then inject further dark matter caveats to balance the equation. It's infuriating.
Your cultural values instilled by your family's values and structure as well as your community. These are the greatest influencers of ones' behavior, values, goals etc. Unstructured lifestyles including anti social, criminal behavior create poverty, they do not relieve it. Many deeply impoverished communities in US history have had relatively low crime rates. Poor Jews in NYC's lower west side in the 40' and 50's had crime, but the values of nuclear family, faith, education and work as a remedy created very positive outcomes. Recent Asian and African Immigrants are displaying similar socioeconomic performance
What type of values do you think you’re going to have in an environment that LACKS resources?
Your argument is backwards - people who want to ignore that it will take resources to fix the problem ALWAYS want to make argument that its a behavioral problem and not a money issue. That way - no one has to come out of their pocket.
You’re not going to have intact homes if you do not have gainfully employed men (fathers) in the home. Broke fathers cannot discipline children nor enforce anything. You may have some “manhood or values” but it’s ineffective manhood and values. If children are still poor and young men still unemployed or under employed, sooner or later they’re going to throw out those values that don’t benefit them.
This argument suggest that poverty should have no consequences for the society. Funny how Huwhite people understand this when we get to “9 meals away from anarchy”
Asians and African immigrants didn’t go through slavery nor Jim Crow
They came here with intact families, their social hierarchies, religion, language, and other culture orientations INTACT, unlike the American black folks who were reduced down to literally nothing.
But that’s your comparison?!! Smdh
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199 most of those who’ve emigrated to the US have escaped war, political persecution and economies where resources are virtually zero. The “poor” aren’t criminals.
What about the people who were used as Slave labor for 200 years? Can you tell us about them please? Asking for a friend.
@@americanaforever6725 someone clearly has not sat down and looked at the crime statistics for those countries. By comparison America is one of the safest countries to live in despite all the wailing about crime everywhere. Crime is centralized in the most poor and impoverished areas in America from the inner city to the hills of Appalachia. Your social math ain’t mathin’
It's poverty of spirit that causes crime.
Which is a derivative of poverty.
Poverty is a lack of money and resources - it is not a state of mind. It is a state of being.
A starving person can’t have the MINDSET to become fat without actually having access to food.
@@skepticalbutopen4620 If this is true, then all NFL and NBA players would all be model citizens. Money will not suddenly force a person have mental perseverence; nor the absence of money cause a person to be intellectually lazy. You cannot buy mental or intellectual perseverence. You either have it or you do not; you don't get to choose to have it.
@@troy3456789 that’s a great point but I think you will agree, if you have greater abundance your less likely to steal. If you have grown up around those who can afford a college education, your more likely to be educated yourself. Etc. I’m not saying those with affluence don’t commit crimes, I’m saying it’s less likely. Especially because you have more to lose when affluent.
Its desperation. Desperation of the body mind and soul.
It has always struck me as odd that we can look at individuals like Lebron and rightfully recognize that some people are built completely different when it comes to strength and athleticism, but at the same time shy away from the notion that there are those in society that are born differently in regards to low intelligence, aggression, poor impulse control, and various other commonly related character traits found in criminals. We just take it as a given that the root cause of crime is poverty and yet if you look at the crime rate among Asian families living under the poverty rate in the USA, it's essentially non-existent.
Are you including the subtitles in this? Cause they are full of errors which I feel kind of cuts against the point of subtitles, which is clarity.
Recommend the book Ghettoside to corroborate much of the explanation for violent crime levels in Los Angeles in black communities. Basically, Southern law enforcement was non-existent on the black side of towns so an honor culture arose among southern blacks which they brought with them when they emigrated west. IN LA in particular, as the black population grew, city leaders imported law enforcement from the south with the idea that southern white knew how to police southern blacks. Of course, they didn't. Today, the lack of trust in and enmity towards law enforcement in black communities in LA gives the honor culture a place to thrive.
It's a theory anyway, but it reads to me as quite reasonable.
Though I would also like a better understanding of how criminal economies (like the drug trade that exploded in LA in the 80s) interacts with honor cultures vs. non-honor cultures. For instance, jews and Chinese and Italians and Irish have all had their own criminal economies with varying degrees of honor cultures and it would be interesting to track the rates of violence as it relates to the core cultures. Also the notion of community wide generational poverty versus personal income.
Much food for thought.
I love Coleman because he can bring up 21 Savage in an intellectual discussion
It’s not poverty per de, but the widening differences between the rich and the poor that leads to more crime. When everyone is poor crime is low, but during the most prosperous times you have greater crime rates; it’s also when you have the greatest difference between the ‘haves and the have nots’
Data driven conversation. Refreshing
Eric Hoffer put it succinctly : if poverty caused crime we’d have been up to our eyeballs in it throughout human history .
The turf wars & honor killings rarely happen by middle and upper class people, which should clue in Rafael to how growing up in poor surroundings encourages factors that lead to increased crime
Dig further. we must then ask "what causes turf wars? We must also ask "why do some in low crime areas kill for disrespect at a much higher rate than those in higher income areas?" Fights over disrect will lead to the root if u keep diggin. Its not the root itself
Really great stuff and hard to argue with Rafael's point of view. I found the Trevor Noah analogy of a profession sports team laughable with regard to public spending in an effort to reduce crime.
Would be great to send your guests a proper microphone, if they don't have. This tinny, low-fi sound quality shouldn't be happening in this day and age. There are
Maybe it's better to say that where there is poverty, there may ultimately be a greater risk of crime down the track, depending on other factors - if we think of poverty as being one of a few leading indicators in the sense that it doesn't directly cause violence, but contributes by producing stressors that can lead to certain cultures developing among children (alcoholism, parental absenteeism, child abuse, etc.). These may produce a generation who tend towards aggressive conflict resolution, but only in places where certain ideological conditions also exist.
Great point. I think it could me summarized like this - poverty is mostly necessary for crime, but far from sufficient.
Dont stop at poverty. What is the root of poverty? i would guess a lack of skills or education that brings sufficient income. This begs the question as to "why low income areas have poor education". This Discussion does well to point out statics that seem to disagree with the correlation between crime and poverty, but there are likely confounding variables, like social policy, that arent obvious, which can skew numbers. Dont just ask "why do gangs kill?" we must also ask, "why gang members, who kill over disrespect, are gang members in the first place". And "why do gangs prevail in low income areas far more than affluent areas?" We can not simply dismiss this correlation based on a few numbers that disagree without getting a fuller picture. MOST crime is economicly related, so an understanding of economics is essential.
Also, always worth bringing up the lead crime hypothesis. There's pretty strong correlations between reduction of lead levels in the population and reduction of crime.
I would even go with lead as much as I would go with a lack of AC units. When it hot inside - you’re frustrated and you go outside. Now there is a much greater incidence of interaction with everyone outside.
The poverty correlation: 20% of African Americans are poor; 33% have a felony. Overall, poverty rate is 11%; overall 16% of men have felonies.
Make sure u are diagnosising the problem, and not a symptom of a deeper problem. Crime is symptom of a deeper problem, and so is poverty. Violence over disrespect is also a symptom of the problem. The proper diagnosis will tie all these SYMPTOMS together. Keep digging. We havent found the real problem here
I happen to live in Lincoln park. Remember this story well
How about crime causes poverty?
Every demographic commits crime.
Guys on Wall Street just commit different types of crime for financial gain.
Violence is part of human nature, so can apply to anyone.
That's why we are discussing rates of crime.
They gave the example of poor Asian communities. So not Wall Street types.
Do some poor Asians commit crime? Yes.
What is the rate?
Nobody argued there was a demographic that never commits crime.
I recommend reading "Preventing Violence" by James Gilligan. It's quite a phenomenal book.
Excellent discussion. Wouldn't the throw-away rebuttal be that poverty and inequality is a (at least a component) cause and post hoc reinforcement of the toxic culture?
Interesting show, what do you think of the concept that violence in the black community traces its roots back to southern white attributes inherited from low land Scottish values?
I see your point. Of course, there could have been inherited traits from Africa and elsewhere, too. Caribbean?
If cultures encourage an ecosystem of crime. What encourages those cultures to engage in settling disputes in this way? I grew up in a poor deep southern majority white town, and these types of disputes were normal in my high school. Is it a disbelief in the prevailing power structure to settle the dispute on your behalf? Is it because it's your only perceived outlet for adjudication?
Culture culture culture that’s the answer bro
Culture plus their belief in God, comprehension of the scripture, and general level of awareness of self along with foresight into second-order consequences on earth or in Hell, to say the least. Morality is held together by one's sense of God or lack thereof.
I think men compete against each other over the sort of status that makes you more attractive to women. Most do this in mainly productive and peaceful ways.
And violent crime is higher among those with lower socioeconomic status because they have failed the normal competition for status. They really are in a desperate state where the risk is their genes may not survive. So if you cant compete economically you might still be able to dominate the other men in you community physically.
These examples of not taking anyone looking down on you, not taking the slightest disrespect is directly about not poverty but status, its forcing others to fear you and "respect" you. If you the most badass mf. no one dares to look down on you.
Isnt this obvious? Males are a little bit larger than females in many species be cause there is competition for reproduction, given that females are the bottleneck for reproduction. The reason males are larger is that the competition is to some degree physical.
So it is not poverty causing crime, it is having low status in terms of relative poverty that puts you in a desperate position. And some proportion of men are willing to take the risky strategy of using violence to not be in the bottom of the hierarchy.
So there is still competition for status in more equal societies, but in more unequal societies the competition seems to be intensified and more violent. The correlation for this is actually very strong geographically in oecd countries.
You’re talking about crime is if it was only street crime. Also, what do you mean by “root cause.” Doesn’t everything have some prior cause?
So basically some cultures (within the criminal enterprise) are like little kids on the playground who do not know how to control their emotions and get into fights all the time. But they are adults (some still kids) that have adult capacity to deliver damage, destruction, and death. Responsibility is not taught, only pride.
Are Asians in NYC not in an honor culture? I don't know for sure either way, but I would assume that they would answer in the affirmative if asked
Perceived disrespect being important is also a function of poverty to a degree....
It sounds simple but the problem is in the heart....thou shalt not covet, though shalt not steal, though shalt not kill....the obvious is people do not honor nor think that there are certain things are absolutely wrong or justify doing them...tell them it is wrong period regardless of your status, your circumstances, your color or your sex...then seek the changed heart...I will not preach but leave it to you to figure it out
Glorifying gangsta culture, comes to mind.
Inculcating hate for being well educated and study because it is something white people praise, comes to mind.
People exposed to prolonged exposure to poverty are not going to have the same mentality as those born into much greater stability.
Education is not going to be valued in a situation where all the avenues to opportunities to the application of that education is in the control of other groups
Gangsta culture - was facilitated by the CIA and the Iran contras that kicked off the narco economy (the largest employer) in the BC.
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199
". ...ducation controlled by other groups..."
An insult to those from the so called oppressed group that do see the value of education.
En example was mentioned in this video about poor Chinese and poor blacks in NY
@@PrimalCulture talk about completely and intentionally misconstruing a statement to push YOUR narrative and propaganda
Why don’t you quote the sentence in its ENTIRETY!
“Education is not going to be valued in a situation where ALL THE AVENUES to OPPORTUNITIES to the application of that education is in the CONTROL of other groups”
In other words - you cannot sell a dream that you do not own. You cannot sell the idea of the value of education where once you acquire that education you then must tell your children to go to other groups and BEG them for a job.
That WILL NOT WORK!
“Yes son - go to college and get an education and then beg BLACK PEOPLE for employment, since they control all of Wakanda”
That’s not going to work, which is precisely why white folks are not trying to be in any situation or environment when they are not in power, control, and the majority.
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199 oh boy ... We have a winner!
I am not t selling anything and that is you projecting your effort to sell the idea that certain minority is being oppressed.
Sorry little man, but I am not here to give your delusion of oppression any attention.
PS: not that it should matter, but I am a minority too!
@@newjerseyselfdefense6199
Adding salt to injury... Because I like it!
Why is it that back when Jim Crow laws were a thing certain minority community had a very low unemployment rate and almost inexistent crime rate?,so another question is; why did crime increased after the civil rights movement? Asking for a friend
Shall we do some math too?
13.6% black demographic
6.3% are men
51% of certain crime is committed by that demographic, so, knowing that most of that type of crime is perpetrated by men between 15-35 years old, according to the math the majority of those "issues" are committed by roughly 1% of the population because #NotAll young black men do it!
Bye bye, sweetheart
honestly, we committed crimes because we liked it. we were just bad dudes. like corn pop. 😆
How many criminals consider themselves to be god fearing?
There are virtually no atheists in prisons.
Do you mean how many are religious? I never met another atheist when I was growing up in the ghetto around criminals and ghetto people. They're ALL religious.
The root is broken homes namely, fatherlessness.
Underneath the root is a lack of wisdom = no fear of God.
Is culture just something that happens to a people? Does culture arise separate from who a people are physically? Does biology play any part in the formation of culture?
Culture is like a spider's web that you get caught in.
Woven by the past generations
@@ivywoodxrecords what if you're a spider?
CULTURE CULTURE CULTURE
The better question is “what causes poverty?”
The even better question is "what causes wealth?"
Crime.
I think that poverty is definitely a factor, but not a direct cause. Mental illness plays its part, as well as macho culture, a poor social welfare system, etc.
It’s a straw-man argument. Violence is more prevalent in poorer black and poorer white communities. Crime is not prevalent among middle class blacks. Maybe it is a cultural issue, but poverty contributes to that culture. There are explanations of how this happens. There are plenty of aggressive middle class and wealthy males who are eager to prove their status, but they do it in other ways, by, for example, being more woke. In poor communities one of the only ways to prove your status is to join a gang and rise up the ranks. It may be possible to avoid that route but the average male will have trouble doing that. The average male born into wealth can do fine. Also, to say that poverty does not cause crime because not all poor people are criminals is like saying smoking doesn’t cause cancer because not all people get it. There are higher rates is the bottom line.
Just watch most black youtubers. Anyone who says something, and the first response is "you are gay" or "Pull up"
Stereotyping.
Or "you raycis"
Ironically, black TH-camrs do much better than any other race I see. And in media in general.
Education? Or lack there of. Single parent households? Both of which are more prevalent alongside poverty. Culture is too much of a blanket for me.
The poor person that is law abiding is a submissive personality type who has accepted his lot in society and is scared that if he challenges it he will be sent to prison etc. He is a slave type person who accepts the master's rations. The people who are poor and who don't have some sort of way of getting out of that poverty (e.g. higher intelligence, personal connections) and commit crimes to get wealth are people with a greater ego. They are people who look at the rich who get to eat better food and get better goods and say, why the fuck can't I have that? Why should I just be a janitor who has to rely on dollar store food to survive while the wall street executive who doesn't work any harder than me gets to have prime steaks and gourmet dinners every night? In a sense they have a more powerful sense of self. They take what they want because they recognize the unfairness of the lot they have been given in life. And the poor slave continues to work 60 hours a week to make 40,000 a year, and skimps on every dollar, precludes himself from every luxury. So yes, poverty is a cause for crime for people who want more than what the lot in their life gives them, and who will not accept having to go to the thrift store to buy their clothes, and only using the Mcdonald's dollar menu as the source of their restaurant meals.
This is not to say that the criminal gets what he wants from doing this. Unless he's a mob boss, or cartel leader, or drugking-pin, he barely makes anything from his crime. But the idea that this will be the reward for selling drugs or robbing a store is what attracts them. They don't want to be a low wage worker who has to live on a tight budget. They want something else from life.
"Fatherless homes". Brought to our society, by design by The Democrat Party
Fathered homes without gainfully employed men isn’t much better.
Manhood with no resources is some pretty GOTDAMN INEFFECTIVE MANHOOD.
Lack of fathers and spirituality. Not difficult to explain.
Lol idk about the spirituality bs, I was the only atheist in my neighborhood. Everyone in the ghetto is religious.
@@brazenatheist1676 OK Karen
@@vincentyoung8472 lol thats real low effort, you feel dumb?
I'm the Karen? Says the suburban dork who doesn't know all the dudes in the hood are religious, that's funny shit.
You're confused
What is the root cause? Fatherlessness
He seems to be hyper-focussed on violent crime.
Yes, most people that live in areas that are high in violent crime focus on that, because it's more fear-inducing than non-violent crime. In other news, people like food that tastes good more than food that tastes bad.
explanations from rap songs are not reliable evidence. Rappers are trying to make money by portraying themselves as the most cutthroat guy out there.
Additionally, if rap songs are your source, rappers talk about growing up with nothing and being from “the trenches” just as much as they talk about violence.
Yes, but why does that make money? Hmmmm...
@@JJ0n3z You tell me. I’m not the main consumer. Young white boys are.
Rappers themselves claim their lyrics are an expression of “reality” and it still has an effect on shaping the mind, both consciously and subconsciously.
Studies have proven this.
Rappers themselves claim their lyrics are an expression of “reality” and it still has an effect on shaping the mind, both consciously and subconsciously.
Studies have proven this.
Rappers themselves claim their lyrics are an expression of “reality” and it still has an effect on shaping the mind, both consciously and subconsciously.
Studies have proven this.
Men. Male humans are violently “gendered”. Why don’t we talk more about that instead of poverty and race and culture?? Why not focus the whole conversation on men and male tendencies to perpetrate crime and violence?
Because you're from the suburbs and don't know what you're talking about...that's why.
If you weren't you'd understand there's a lot of female violence in these neighborhoods as well.
When I was seven I watched another woman stomp a woman to death...so please just stfu.
Because it's already accepted. And is why there's enormous bias against men in society and the criminal justice system-- that makes the racial bias looks trivial by comparison.
If a violent crime is committed, everyone assumes it was done by a male. It doesn't need to be stated. There's no denial about this.
There is, however, great denial about everything men to to protect people (particularly women) from violence. Men have organised society with this goal in mind. They pay the vast majority of taxes, they do all the protective jobs, all the physically laborious jobs, they're the vast majority of the police, the prison guards, they build the prisons, they're the soldiers, the firemen, the good Samaritans, the protective family member/partner. That's in addition to the fact that men are the vast majority of victims of violent crime. As with race, 90% of male violence is against another male.
Also, testosterone levels have been sinking rapidly over the past few decades.
Want to talk about the huge correlation between violence and lack of male influence, though? Fatherlessness? Schools dominated by female teachers? Which follows on from my points above. It takes men to prevent male violence.
eg: th-cam.com/video/OdPaqt6RY_Q/w-d-xo.html
Excellent point. One that Coleman makes all the time.
Root cause by amd large is poverty. All of the other stuff he's talking about is residual effects and correlates of people engrossed in poverty.
I think it’s a false question. What crimes are we talking about? There’s different motivations for different crimes. And what constitutes a crime? Many people feel that Cain Velasquez had every right to kill the man who raped his child. But the state doesn’t think so. So that’s a case where what he did is contentious in regards to wether he was committing a crime. Then there are people like tes Bundy who kill because they are crazy. You could apply this logic to any crime. Stealing. Some people steal food because they can’t afford it so the root cause would be common sense survival. Then there are people who steal for fun where the root cause is stupidity lol. Then there is drug use where many people feel as if doing drugs isn’t really a crime. There are also some things that use to be crimes that no longer aren’t. So the question itself is false. Kind of like asking why the universe exists. It’s not a real answerable question.
So according to you, there's no way to actually put conditions in to help lower crime, we can only be reactive because it's impossible to know what causes crime. I'm sorry, but that's a deeply unsatisfying answer and really just stems from an inability, or unwillingness, to engage with the data and crime models.
@@jmattia24 one day you’ll learn nature and reality doesn’t care about wether you are satisfied or not.
@@weignerleigner3037 Good luck going through life thinking some things are just impossible to answer, even when there's data on it. I'm sure that attitude will serve humans well with advancing ourselves and bringing peace, freedom, and prosperity to as many people as possible.
@@jmattia24 also I never said you can’t do anything about crime. You didn’t read my comment. I said all crimes are not the same and some things that are a crime shouldn’t be and somethings that use to be a crime aren’t today. So the question is too general and doesn’t make much sense. Poor people stealing to survive will always exist. That will never stop happening. So to say “well that’s not sufficient for me” no one cares about you or what you think. Utopia isn’t real and reality will play out the way it will wether you like it or not.
@@weignerleigner3037 you said answering the question of what causes crime is impossible. If you cannot answer what causes crime, you cannot put policies in place to prevent crime, as you don't know what you're combating. Your comment leads to only one logical position, that humans are powerless to proactively prevent crime because there's no way for us to know what actually causes crime. If you cannot diagnose a problem, you cannot fix it, and your comment said its impossible to know what causes crime; thus, there's no way for us to proactively stop it.
I'm not talking about utopia, I'm talking about using critical reasoning, data, and logic to find the root cause of an issue that is well documented. You're taking a position that you think is deep, but is actually as shallow as a kiddie pool. You're literally saying we cannot comprehend what causes crime. This isn't a deep or realistic position, it's one in denial of what can be gleaned from the available data.
I haven't watched the podcast yet and I do find Coleman incredibly interesting and sensible.
But I will tell you the root causes of crime without needing to watch. LOUSY VALUES. Good people don't do bad things. America has a gigantic values problem and I fear it is insoluble. Money is not the answer. Racism is not the problem. The problem is values, values and values.
I shall watch Coleman's opinion with great interest!
Ok. I watched and Coleman this was really awful! The podcast is supposed to be about the "Root causes of Crime". I listened very carefully and all I heard was "beefs" and culture! That is totally inadequate as any form of serious dialogue into crime. That was it? Crime is chiefly from people who have a beef because of their culture? Coleman I respect you very much but I challenge you to revisit this incredibly dangerous problem that bedevils our society and do better than that. Let's deal for example with FBI statistics that show that 54% of all violent crimes including burglary are coming from the black community which represent some 15% of the population. So let's say 54% is being caused by half of a percent in the black community. Then look at the victims who are about 70% black.
Now that's a miserably shocking statistic if true and it does seem to be true.
And your content that the reason is primarily "cultural beefs?" Coleman that is simply nonsense. Your a man who has not been afraid to articulate reasons on many topics. My respect for you is such that I think you should come back to this topic much much much more seriously. As a podcast on perhaps the most serious of topics you can do much better than this.
"Good people" lol. Everybody has good and evil within them. Read the fucking bible you will learn that.
Ah yes, cowboys and westerns, a culture and time period famously known for being totally divorced from structural economic conditions
this conversation is completely useless without discussing tangible policy, coleman loves to play this pseudo intellectual centrist shooting down progressive ideas but offers no solution, the data that was offered doesnt describe the overwhelmingly obvious inequity between classes which contribute to crime, to think that investment in poor communities and a restructuring of the economy to be more socialized wouldnt eliviate the drivers for crime and gangs is simply wrong, no one really WANTS to be in a gang its the desperate economic conditions around them which makes it appealing
Are you saying there’s some sort of ‘defect’ in black men? Because of culture and rap music?
You know that isn't what he is saying
There is some level of criminality in all races and we all know that. It may be that narcissism is running higher in black families due to abusive, neglective or parents or parent. They may be more likely to program otherwise indefensible ideas in their offspring. Nobody is born with narcissism.
If you are born of a family that champions personal responsibility, honesty, transparency, cooperation, respect for authority, personal achievement, science as a philosophy, educational achievement, objective morals built around reducing needless human suffering; you are simply very very lucky. Your life stands a much greater chance of success in any endeavor. We don't get to choose our parents or the culture in which we are raised. We don't get to choose the worldviews of those in our lives as we grow. All we can do is encourage each other to live our best lives, and to avoid harming others in ways in which we do not want to be harmed. We would do well to surround ourselves with smart succcessful people.
@@troy3456789 here we go with the it’s a MORAL PROBLEM or a BEHAVIORAL MODIFICATION problem than a resource problem
Black family was more intact post WW2 when America had a strong manufacturing base. Even if a home was divorced there were resources from the biological father and the step father.
With no money - what you call “VALUES” fall on their face in a vacuum.
Gotta love these people who think poor people should simply MONK their way through life, or even better believe that being a good moral prudent person has anything to do with bones capacity to make money.
Your morals or values don’t have a damn thing to do with a factory shutting down or an industry relocating.
Your math ain’t mathin’
Your spiritual orientation, beliefs, or values don’t have a damn thing to do with whether there are economic opportunities on the ground for most men in a community.
The auto industry started in Detroit and then people moved there to work. It was not the Holy Spirit that magically created intact homes and then the automotive plant just showed up.
You, like most conservatives are BACKWARDS in their economic thinking. Always trying to make things NOT about the money.
@@troy3456789 I agree with you to a certain extent as it relates to families. The dirty truth of the matter is that a lot of families are toxic and dysfunctional - regardless of race. Then add in the effect race has had on specific families and it makes a difference in what type of person you’re going to turn out to be. I respect Coleman Hughes but this one confused me. Of course there are a lot of complex and nuanced factors that play a big role in society, our problem is that we either over emphasize race or ignore it all together and that’s why things are getting worse. Personal responsibility matters but it can only get you so far in this world. We have to stop ignoring it.
Coleman, are you seriously making the argument that people's poverty has no bearing on their involvement in criminal activity?? Doesn't it go without saying that, if all these people had well-earning fulfilling jobs, most of them would not have the incentive (probably not the time, frankly) for crime? You say your conclusion is "counter-intuitive", I say it's virulently conservative and straight-up bizarre.
Did you listen to the stats in the video? Poverty higher in 2016 than 1990 but violent crime down 90%. If poverty causes crime, how does that make any sense?
Coleman is dealing with a hard question, for sure. However, I think your own personal biases might be preventing you from engaging with crime data and making sound conclusions. It's why you can get two groups of equally poor people, yet crime rates will be drastically different. A lot more goes into crime than poverty, and the 100 years of data we have on the subject makes that very clear.
Black men glorifiy gang culture. White men glorify working construction and coaching little league. Country music vs Rap.
Careful with the generalizations there. There are plenty of white men that engage in the same culture you describe and plenty of black men that are good fathers, blue collar workers and involved in their childrens' sports teams and extracurricular activities.
Yeah you don’t understand much about this conversation.
I've been skeptical of Coleman since Covid. His support for mandates, even for people with natural immunity makes me doubt his sincerity and wonder where his money comes from.
I basically stopped watching him after he supported big pharmaceutical companies without question
I've been looking for an ad hominem against Coleman so I can leave a thumbs down on this video. Thank you.
@@iboughtathing2001 I guess that's ad hominem. I was just coming here to say his reaction to covid was rather MSM. I know CIA infiltrates TH-cam and pays influential users to spread their propaganda. He made lots of ad hominem attacks on people who refused the vaccine regardless of their reasons
@@nochepatada That's sounds like something that a CIA stooge would say if they wanted to discredit Coleman
@@iboughtathing2001 sure bud.
He had a recent episode where he criticized the vaccine mandates. Slow down.