So they've changed the new Shades to work better for recess shading, rather than full washing? ... Who's betting they'll come back in a few months/a year with a 'brand new Wash range' that's exactly the same as the old shades, but more expensive because of the 24ml bottle size?
I think you're right; it does say "shade" on the bottle, even though a LOT of people including myself use them for a wash effect (filter/tint) as well. GW marketing probably realized this somewhere along the line, and now will sell us both.
No bet. Has classic GeeDubs scumminess written all over it. I mean, JFC, the only thing I use their products for is paints nowadays, and now they're even fucking that up. Time to jump ship to Vallejo or Army Painter if the money-grubbing turds can't even get that right.
I just used the Army painter acrylic ink shaders. They work great. Soft tone, strong tone, dark tone. They are the equivalent of the Games Workshop holy trinity. Cheaper too.
I've used different types of paints over the years but always fall back onto Army Painter, I still got many of the old GW paints lol and still useable. But the GW wash I used to get as I loved it was the Green wash - (can't remember its name, I just called it green wash) lol. But I'm sure it's been discontinued.
The new speed paints from Army Painter is also super awesome. I was skeptical before trying them but they lived up to the promises. At least for the type of "quick-to-table" painting i do.
@@martinaasandersen3775 I've not tried army painter speed paints - got way too many bottles of standard to get through 🤣🤣🤣. Will have to give them a look.
It was a financial decision. Switching to using the same base mix as contrast meant that they can buy one base mix in a larger amount at a discount. It's also why they discontinued the glazes.
GW have been changing paint names and formulas since forever, which is probably why you shouldn't trust them for any long term projects ... as the exact matching thing might not exist after a few years.
An interesting video idea might be to see what competitors versions of these washes match the closest to your holy trinity and can fill the gap that GW can no longer offer
Apart from Agrax I switched to Army Painter washes a few years ago and have never looked back. I am keen to test the new "white"GW washes but Army Painter is the way forward
I frequently take advantage of the tinting/staining effect of the old Citadel washes to modify or harmonise the hue of something I've painted, in addition to shading it. As such these new Citadel washes have left me somewhat concerned. For when you want them only to recess shade models I think they'll be pretty good but I may have to modify my workflow somewhat when I run out of old washes.
Same. Can get similar results with burnt umber, sepia and black ink with the right amount of thinners, flow aid and water but the issue is finding that mix and getting the consistency. The real trouble is finding a replacement that matches other colours, arthonian camo shade will be my problem colour.
I suppose that Nuln Oil and Agrax are the most bought paints from Citadel. They are the two single most recommended paints/shades to get from GW. Why ruin them? Why try to fix something that doesn't need fixing? Just to raise profits? But if the overall product is worse that less people would by that. I mean the bottles got smaller and the shade itself got less pigments or forms more puddles. This is a disaster!!
personaly idon t think it s getting worse , not talking about price but model and paint here. GW inovated a lot with contrast and the news models are jsut amazing. People jus realy like to complaing and dont focus on the good things
@@colson3050 they are not making them worse , they will be differebt but worse or not i think it s beter to try them by ourself before talking about if it beter or worse , maybe their uses will change but that wont make them useless.
@@ysbrann3059 bro were in the comments of a video showing them off??? hello? they look 10x worse on flat surfaces. it looks worse then army painters washes(Which I use) and the cost is a huge difference.
I was initially quite happy because - at the rate I paint and use them - I've got enough left of the old washes to last a year or two. But I'm also overdue to knock over a paint pot, so...
If you can't be bothered to put it in droppers, just get in the habit of putting what you need on a wet palette with a pipette. It's not going to hurt your wet palette or get too thin, no matter what people say.
You know, I really am sick of GW changing up/getting rid of paints for absolutely no reason other than pushing out something shiny and new. When you spend years painting miniatures for a single army, the ONE thing you want from a paint range is continuity.
This whole video is a great way of promoting mixing your own washes. Mixing your own is cheaper and you have total control over flow and depth of colour. Personally I make my washes using oil paints which are most versatile and because of there slow drying characteristics allows plenty of time to adjust coverage and depth of staining. Using turps they can be thinned as wanted so amount of 'spread' can be adjusted exactly and where too much has been applied a wipe with cloth dampened with turps will allow either complete removal or subtle adjustments to be made. Oil pants also allow some interesting affects like depicting rust stains which peter out as they spread down the rusted object, the same goes of dicpicting leaking fluids or bleeding wounds. Oil paints are by there nature transparent allowing different coloured washed to be overlaid which can create some unique effects.
Seriously? I was considering getting them but thought that a Nuln oil, seraphim coeila and agrax earthshade equaivelent existed? If so I no longer need to buy GW's :)))
Uncle Atom is so polite and reasonable even when he doesn't find something entirely satisfying, I think this is the closest to nerd-raging we are ever going to see him 😜
I think you nailed it when you mentioned "workflow". Over the years, gw forced me to change my workflow many times due to changing/adding/discontinuing paints. While I find a good thing to explore new stuff, paints and recipes, I don't like being forced to. That's one of the reasons I almost entirely switched to other brands years ago, except a few gw paint here and there
Only GW products I still buy are Agrax earth shade, Nuln oil, sometimes sepia and their brushes. Out of all of these Agrax is the most important. I'm worried this might make models I paint in the future look different from the ones I've already painted.
@@stevenschnepp576 the climate I live in is high desert. What that means for painting: you have to use a wet pallette and often thin your paints with a drying retarder instead of water. If the appropriate steps aren't taken, the paint can actually dry on your brush before you can get it from the pallette onto your miniature. Most brushes, particularly those that are synthetic can't handle this environment. The very tips will immediately bend after just one or two uses. The standard Citadel small layer brush is the easiest and least expensive brush I can find in my area that handles this climate. And yes, I'm aware they contract them from another company.
Interesting. I've actually switched to the Tamiya Panel Line for these colors personally. I find the advantage with it is I can easily remove any excess after it dries, and it dries in minutes.
I found that for the contrast paints, just adding water would make them flow a lot better and behave like washes. Use contrast medium to make them more transparent. That was one feature I liked, I could get very different flows and effects depending on how I diluted it. In fact, I preferred that to the straight washes like Nuln Oil.
Thank you for putting this out there! I have been slowly replacing my paints with other manufacturers and was hoping to continue using the washes from GW as they were doing a very good job. Considering the pot size and the issues you've mentioned I now want to look a different direction for my shading needs.
It may be a slight change but the consistency of paint colours in an army is really important, as those 3 in particular are used on all my models i will either have to buy up the old stock so i can stay consistent with new models or try and colour match my own wash because i really don't want to have to repaint all my models to make sure they match.
I really appreciate your review, what I would say about the new stuff is that you have to apply it differently to the old shades. You have to be more mindful of how much is on your brush and where it goes. With the old stuff I just use to slop it on and then re-paint my base layer, whereas with the new shades you can reduce the amount of work you have to do after you've shaded the recesses.
I'm definitely looking forward to trying out the reformulated shades, but I always love hearing your thoughts on this stuff, Atom. Its always interesting to me to hear how two different artists can have varying experiences with a product or approach. Looking forward to your vid on the contrasts next!
The new versions of the shades are constrast formula :) The big upside is that you can now mix the shades with the contrast paints!!! Which is AWESOME.
@@jackalcoyote8777 I agree in most cases. The exception in the past has been Nuln Oil and Earthshade. I like the contrast paints a lot too, but won't buy any more since the Army Painter Speed Paints are just better
Glazing with super thin oil paints has replaced the holy trinity of washes for me for almost a year now. More uniform surface tinting, easily erasable mistakes and the ability to streak for fast weathering make them a joy to work with
Looks like I’ve made the shift to oil washes just in time! I still use GW Shades, just not as often. I am very excited for the new Contrast paints, however.
the fact that GW can't leave well alone with paints is the best reason to use paints from somewhere else, basically can't say with any certainty that if you come back to a GW army after a few years you will get the paints. and they have done this before, remember Devlin Mud? near perfection in a pot.. so they changed it
@Tabletop Minions Hello there, You are one if not THE main source of referance for when i try to paint. Especialy now, Last year i had 3 strokes in my brain, 3 bloodcloths, they paralyzed me for a time leaving my right side of my body non functional, stubbon as i am i fought my way back on my feet and got arm and leg forking again, one of the things that helped me get back was that i got a bunch of blood angles i want to paint (arround a company of primaris blood angles) so watching you getting hints and how to's have been a greath help, along with the contrast paints saving me some time doing multiple layers ( :D ) Thank you for your helpfull videos, they are super helpfull! Kind regars "Franzi"
This is why I'm glad I over-bought my washes a long while back, and have enough to last potentially years (so long as they aren't in a super hot environment). Because GW likes to mess things up that don't require any changing at all.
Damn good work! I might pop into my local GW and see if their is any left. I have been using army painter for a black wash and although it's not the greatest I know how to use it now. I think most of us might be switching to another paint brand now. Why is GW doing this, all they had to do was improve.
Cheers for the vid about this, as the person who introduced me to zenithal and its surrounding techniques i was waiting to hear your opinion on the reformulation!
I've been using Army Painter shades and they've been okay, in my quest to discover a good Nuln Oil replacement I've now found out about Vallejo army wash which comes in a 200 ml pot and is super cheap. Reviews I've found are generally good so I need to get my hands on it ASAP to try it out!
Excellent video, especially that it was from the nerd bunker!! This is my favourite kind of comparison video, it feels real-time & I love the honesty of opinion too! 😁👍
Never a good sign when (after testing) the reaction to a new product is to rush out and stock up on the old product before it goes completely out of stock.
GW released these for one reason and one reason only. As an excuse to give you less paint that has less pigment (and saves them a ton of money) for the same price. Period. Shrinkflation...it's a real thing with all corporations.
I have to wonder whether it's that the CEOs are getting greedy, or tons of companies are about to go under if they don't adjust. And even if they do adjust, with nobody able to afford their products, they'll collapse anyway.
@@PsychicAlchemy it's greed. Disruptions did cause prices to go up, but businesses have taken the excuse to not pass just the cost increases they experienced from shipping disruptions onto customers, but then add another 20, 30, 50 percent onto the prices on top of it and pretend that they are just dealing with covid and the war. They are lying
@@EAfirstlast Consider that often the effects of inflation can compound, especially if their partners in manufacturing and distribution are trying to keep ahead of inflation.
@@jackalcoyote8777 washing is a "real technique" but it's one of many. Like a step in a recipe that's optional. Most people don't just only wash their models and call it a day.
I'm glad I went and got a bunch of Drakenhof Nightshade pots for my son's Ultramarines - he's 11 and the classic method of base coat, shade, layer, drybrush highlight works well for him.
When I do use washes, I prefer the army painter ones because they behave more like inks. I do use seraphim sepia once in a while still because I like the tone and haven't found a good replacement for it yet, but I also haven't looked very hard. For the last year or so I've been relying more on oil washes and Tamiya panel liners than hobby washes, but that's the gunpla nerd in me.
I use mostly Army painter paint but used GW washes - but started using Army painter washes and enjoying them although I did love the GW green wash they used to do..... Still miss that one lol
Ok, looks like there are two options now: 1.) Say hello to the Washes of companys like Vallejo or The Army Painter. (Which are good Products. I'm kind of a hopper through this washes all the time, because sometimes I can't get the wash I want from one company.) 2.) Find a recepy to mix your own washes online. (There are a few.) Either way: GW tries the old trick of getting more money for less product.
@@remusventanus5341 Sadly, everybody's doing it, as their halfway cynical moves to "fight inflation". Just take a look round the grocery store and pay attention to the sizes you can buy today vs. what you could just a year ago. Food producers can get away with it because I need to eat. I don't need GW washes when there are other good alternatives.
Even if they made the paint "better" it still wouldn't be good because it's gonna be impossible to make models look the same as your old ones and that matters to me a lot more. If they just made new stuff that would be fine, but why take away?
I've had armies painted over the last 30 years that I'm still adding to. That is about 5 different changes of paint ranges. This isn't really a problem, it always matches closely enough.
@@ysbrann3059 ‘Standardise their pot’ hahahahahaha fucking copium. It’s interesting how their pots didn’t ‘standardise’ themselves to 24ml now isn’t it?
Great video Adam, good info, seemed well thought out and properly tested. I have yet to buy the contrast-y shades, but I'm glad I haven't gone out to buy them. My initial thought was that they would be great, but not all that glitters is gold, it would seem, while I'm not opposed to change, I feel like this new iteration of shades is still in testing with the general 40k customer base, and I cant wait to see the future of shades and your videos on them
This is weird, Vince’s test (literally the same, splitting Space Marines in 2) gives the opposite result: less blotchiness and less staining with the new ones…
Vince moves the paint around a lot more, soaks up excess, teases it into where he wants the paint to go, basically doesn’t let it blotch on flat surfaces. Which is realistically how you should do it with both paints. A lot of painters will just goop it all over and let it dry. I’m those cases, yeah, the old stuff was probably more forgiving as it flowed into the recesses a bit more without them trying.
@@popcorngenerator1925 well I mean that’s exactly what was outlined at the end of the video. But I do prefer the convenience of the older shades a lot more. You could do so much more with them too in the realm of control, I feel. That quality it had to sink itself into recesses and how easy it was to manipulate it after you’d applied it was just so much better
My good friend Vince is an award winning painter - he doesn’t “slop it on” like most people do. Like I said - if you’re very careful, the new stuff will probably work well. However, most of us aren’t as careful as Vince. Thanks for watching!
I'm glad I bought WAYYYY to many washes now... Thanks GW for making my insane hubris of buying more washes than I'll ever need validated. :D I usually water down the sepia a bit when I use it so it being thinner for the new version isn't a surprise. I love using slightly watered down Nuln Oil for black lining, Sepia for adding a bit of depth to faces and browns/tans as well as copper and non-silver metallics.
This is exactly why I invested in P3 and Valejo paints. 8+ years using them with little to no change or headaches like this. Makes the hobby more affordable as well, in my area Citadel paints are the priciest and least performative.
If the shades feel too thick, get a bottle of acrylic flow improver from an art/craft/hobby shop. Put a few (5-6) drops into the shade, and shake vigorously. It should loosen the shade up without diminishing the colour. A bottle of flow improver will last you for a good long time, and is a great investment for your paints/washes.
Good video but may I pose a challenge? This is a good thing (not the shrinkflation of the pots - that sucks). It's a good thing because it will encourage the community not to basecoat their minis and then *drench* them with shade. People will thin their shades, and move toward recess shading and pinwashing. The Citadel paint system is very influential, and this will lead to fewer bad habits.
I’m still interested in testing out the new washes, but I finally got around to testing out oil washes this week and I was blown away; having more working time with the wash has improved my painting a lot.
I've been using Contrast paint instead of GW's "shade" paints, and as I don't glob it all over for recess shading it works quite well. So the change to a "shade" mixed with the same medium as Contrast paint doesn't concern me much. What intrigues me is if I now have to buy Contrast Medium to thin the "new" "shades". Of course, as many have stated, GW don't do themselves any favours with their anti-consumer practices, like using shrinkflation on these "new" washes, it would seem many are getting fed up with it, as am I, but there are enough apologists that GW will never get the message...
Contrast medium isn't a real think. Mix matte medium or acrlyic medium with flow improver. You can get Liquitex brand of both of these at Hobby Lobby in the states (and probably Tescoe's in the islands)
Vallejo game wash "Sepia shade" was a great replacement for me a few years ago, it's great. I don't think my heart could handle spilling another GW wash pot again, it would implode with rage. One trick to really feel the consistency of a paint is to paint a little line on your left hand, you can very easily tell how it goes down the natural recesses of skin and it doesn't absorb like it does if you test on paper.
I want to recommend the Green Stuff World washes, Andalusian Earth and Ancient Sepia (ca. equivalents of Agrax and S Sepia). Right now my favorite washes.
The old shades were excellent the way they were, they didn't need to change them, they were great for all-over color modulation. I might just have to switch to oils and ditch the old style entirely, just so I'm not at the whims of proprietary blends.
Yeah. I've been messing with oil washes for a bit now (typically for larger models though)..but I may need to figure a way to just completely switch over before my agrax runs out. Such a shame, I loved that wash
@@demon1103 I've watched a couple videos now on artists who paint their minis basically entirely with oils, and they results are quite good. The process doesn't seem much more difficult in most cases other than a little more care with drying, and some clear coat layers to hold things down.
I've been learning to make my own ink washes lately and honestly it's been a great experience. No more need to worry about proprietary blends, just my own knowledge.
As someone who works in the paint industry I think this reformulation is probably because of a material shortage forcing them to find new ways to make stuff. At least that's what pretty much every paint manufacturer in the states are forced to do right now. For example the one of the main ingredients for latex paint had it's allocation at my work reduced to 40% of what we bought back in 2019
yup ninjon said a similar thing, they behave and feel like contrasts now more than shades and that is clearly evident with how the look almost exactly like how contrasts do over shoulder pads etc.
I am comfortable with change in life, as long as Agrax Earthshade, Seraphim Sepia and Nuln Oil stay exactly the same. Seriously, why would they mess with those!?!
I moved towards AK-3rd and green stuff world paints. I used washes from GW because they were good but now, with price gauging and "fixing" them by geedubs i will just order new from either of earlier mentioned companies. Thank You Uncle Atom for decency in review.
Thank you for your video. This development is highly interesting. I noticed a change in Agrax and the canoptec shade (released with new necrons). These set At bottom after some days of standing exactly like contrast paints, which is annoyong as hell. I think they changed the formula because of resource or financial reasons.
Hmm... they look okay to me. The biggest annoyance will be shaking them up. The old ones were so easy to use. I wish they hadn't changed them though: these washes are renowned across the hobby as being excellent. Messing with them is a massive gamble.
It was refreshing to see a paint, paint in the style I do and see how the new shades perform. I've seen lots of videos about them, but its mostly people who know how to use contrast (spoiler alert, these new shades are watered down contrast), and you do need to move the paint around like contrast.
If you want see how they or if you like them then Warhammer stores are letting you try them out on a couple of models - I did and really are very nice to use in the style I paint (bonus I got to keep the models)
I got to test all of them at my gw store, and I feel like I would want a bottle of the old stuff, and a bottle of the new stuff on hand. I would have greatly prefered the new nuln oil for my night lords over the old nuln oil. It tinting things less is a HUGE boon for me. I don't see this as ruined at all. My Casandora yellow though, how will I ever paint blonde hair again if I knock my pot over, really unhappy about that one. My thoughts on agrax are super mixed, but mostly negative. Also mixed on Drakenhoff Nightshade and Druchii violet changes, I think they flowed well, but they work worse for trying to do quick and easy muzzle burn. I personally didn't have much issue with the gummy-ness when I tried them myself, I suppose its because I don't glop them on? I'm not sure, but I just don't see them as "ruined" like a lot of people in here seem to think. Except casadora yellow. Look how they massacred my boy.
the blue cloth is covering the HUGE cave complex where Reign in Hell was co-written by the demon robot squirrels that keep startling the cats on Sunday mornings
New is not necessarily better. From your results it looks as though the new formulation is better at pin washing as opposed to an overall wash. I will be stocking up on the old formula too. Thanks for this review, it was very helpful.
I find the new shades, specifically the Agrax, is very glossy, almost too glossy. I've double checked that I didn't buy the gloss version. I shake the holy hell out of the bottle, and it's still shiny. I've fully converted to using Army painter shades for almost everything now. Also, I don't have to worry about spilling the whole bottle and ruining nearby pants/carpet/cat.
Honestly I like that more - I'm looking for Nuln Oil to do less staining and more of getting to the cracks. I was first excited about this through a video by Ninjon, and this seems to confirm it a bit. If you like the staining effect, I suggest Basilicanum Grey.
I find then too diluted compared to the old wash colour wise. Sure the texture is more "gummier" but hue to me is more lighter I like the older one cause they are more "grunge-er" Ok the diluted are more controlled but I find the older one are better for a more dirty look
Please don't use a specialty wash to make your models look weathered and grungey. Mix pigment or black craft paint with dish soap and water if you just want to make necromunda terrain look dirty or something. If you're using nuln oil for that, it's like buying a jeweler's diamond to buy on the end of a power drill.
I know this was mentioned in the article about the new contrast paint but why change what's not broken. I am now going to have to see if I can get some of the old style ones just to keep as I had to do with Thunderhawk Blue Dry.
My biggest critique is that they didn't split the contrast range into base, general and shade categories. With my specific "painting style" i think i will prefer the new shades. But completely discontinuing any kind of wash/stain product seems super strange to me. Together with contrast paint, it is literally the only type that benefits from pots instead of dropper bottles.
GW has done this multiple times. I started in 3rd and there used to be a line of Citadel inks that were removed around the same time the pink and purple range got seriously depleted. I can think of 2-3 major overhauls to the paint product line, each changing the colors slightly and major name changes to the point GW would release a comparison chart. Yet with each new iteration, there was always something being removed.
@@greybishop7346 I have always wondered if Army Painter picked up the Inks from the manufacturer when GW started making Shades instead. The timing was pretty close if I remember correctly. I can see that Coat d'Arms has the "original" ink range. Never mind.
Thank you for this video, really helps me tell who is or is not a shill. I've seen several videos about these new wash formulas were people just say it's the best thing ever and there's so much better etc etc. The best thing I could say about them from looking at your test models is that they are different than before. They don't seem to be more useful or effective in their role, they just don't function the same anymore which in my eyes is a net negative when everyone is already used to the product.
GW may have reformulated, but at least you can still get AP Dark Tone. Army Painter may not have an exact match for Seraphim Sepia or Agrax Earthshade (Which falls somewhere between AP Soft Tone and AP Strong Tone), but I maintain that you could refill an old pot of Nuln Oil with AP Dark Tone and not even the most hardcore GW mark would be able to tell the difference.
This is strange to hear. I was in the shop the other day with some guys using the new washes, and they were saying they were much easier to work with and got better results than the old forumulations. But then again, they weren't slopping it all over flat white. As you indicated toward the end, it may just come down to what you're using them for.
@@starnostras My regular shop has a really good team. I think they may also be one of the better performing stores around, probably because they have such a good team.
@@starnostras I mean.. i doubt the employees of the store would rush to the defense of Gamesworkshop... i would see other shoppers getting involved before staff does. Staff usually just wants to sell you something, and if you're in the shop and not causing a fuss, you're still a customer.
Very interesting, have you used AP washes? They also feel more heavy and sticky compared to old formula GW washes, I like GW nuln oil and Agrax although I prefer AP’s color washes more than GW, they are quite a bit lighter in saturation.
So they've changed the new Shades to work better for recess shading, rather than full washing? ... Who's betting they'll come back in a few months/a year with a 'brand new Wash range' that's exactly the same as the old shades, but more expensive because of the 24ml bottle size?
Can’t wait to get me some Promethium Streak, Kinn Rune Sepia and Beast Snagga Brown.
I feel like you're a GW employee trying to prepare us.
I think you're right; it does say "shade" on the bottle, even though a LOT of people including myself use them for a wash effect (filter/tint) as well. GW marketing probably realized this somewhere along the line, and now will sell us both.
No bet. Has classic GeeDubs scumminess written all over it. I mean, JFC, the only thing I use their products for is paints nowadays, and now they're even fucking that up. Time to jump ship to Vallejo or Army Painter if the money-grubbing turds can't even get that right.
ai mean.. does anyone even use the washes anymore... add more water to your browns and blacks?
I just used the Army painter acrylic ink shaders. They work great. Soft tone, strong tone, dark tone. They are the equivalent of the Games Workshop holy trinity. Cheaper too.
And you can 'cut' them with 50/50 thinner medium for excellent cloth / flesh tones
i've moved on to Army Painter washes. Way more bang for your buck.
I've used different types of paints over the years but always fall back onto Army Painter, I still got many of the old GW paints lol and still useable. But the GW wash I used to get as I loved it was the Green wash - (can't remember its name, I just called it green wash) lol. But I'm sure it's been discontinued.
The new speed paints from Army Painter is also super awesome. I was skeptical before trying them but they lived up to the promises. At least for the type of "quick-to-table" painting i do.
@@martinaasandersen3775 I've not tried army painter speed paints - got way too many bottles of standard to get through 🤣🤣🤣. Will have to give them a look.
Whenever a company introduces a "new and improved recipe" it's always because it's cheaper to produce
Or regulations forbid the old one.
I loved them old shades. RIP beautiful shades.
I miss my old pot of Devlan Mud...
GW once again "fixing" a problem that didn't exist in first place.
But they’re so good at this point why stop them they’re on a roll… . . . Down a hill
The problem was not enough margin
And I bet my life savings they fixed that lol
It was a financial decision. Switching to using the same base mix as contrast meant that they can buy one base mix in a larger amount at a discount. It's also why they discontinued the glazes.
GW have been changing paint names and formulas since forever, which is probably why you shouldn't trust them for any long term projects ... as the exact matching thing might not exist after a few years.
@@adambeckett8394 or a supply chain issue, an change in internal processes that they then try to spin as innovation
An interesting video idea might be to see what competitors versions of these washes match the closest to your holy trinity and can fill the gap that GW can no longer offer
Apart from Agrax I switched to Army Painter washes a few years ago and have never looked back. I am keen to test the new "white"GW washes but Army Painter is the way forward
Their washes are great.
@@oniryu246 approximate equivalents are dark tone for nuln oil, strong tone for agrax and soft tone for sepia, and flesh wash for reikland
The only problem I have with those is they dry very glossy.
@@mattbrown5234 try Daler Rowney matt acrylic varnish, I use it on everything to kill any shine
I already exclusively use army painter for their tools and vallejo for paints. Hope AP has a good sub for the old washes.
I frequently take advantage of the tinting/staining effect of the old Citadel washes to modify or harmonise the hue of something I've painted, in addition to shading it. As such these new Citadel washes have left me somewhat concerned. For when you want them only to recess shade models I think they'll be pretty good but I may have to modify my workflow somewhat when I run out of old washes.
Same. Can get similar results with burnt umber, sepia and black ink with the right amount of thinners, flow aid and water but the issue is finding that mix and getting the consistency.
The real trouble is finding a replacement that matches other colours, arthonian camo shade will be my problem colour.
Try the army painter inks. I’ve had a lot of success using them for what you describe.
I suppose that Nuln Oil and Agrax are the most bought paints from Citadel. They are the two single most recommended paints/shades to get from GW. Why ruin them? Why try to fix something that doesn't need fixing? Just to raise profits? But if the overall product is worse that less people would by that. I mean the bottles got smaller and the shade itself got less pigments or forms more puddles. This is a disaster!!
Personally I'll just use my excess of agrax with a hint of Black Templar. No way in hell I'm paying more for less of an inferior product.
I wonder if it was an excuse to stick them in the smaller bottles for the same price.
Just use oil washes
@@riccardonovello yeah. This will be the next step.
Two options switch to the excellent vallajo washes or make your own with artists inks
Nearly every hobbyist : GW is getting worse and worse ...
GW : Let's change the only thing every hobbyist still likes about us !
personaly idon t think it s getting worse , not talking about price but model and paint here. GW inovated a lot with contrast and the news models are jsut amazing. People jus realy like to complaing and dont focus on the good things
@@ysbrann3059 We get it, you're a GW fanboy.
Imagine bootlicking for a billion dollar company that routinely screws its consumers over
@@ysbrann3059 how much is GW paying you to shill their overpriced, objectively worse products. Don't tell me you're doing it for free?
@@TheNarwhal85 imagine appreciating a compagny that sell your hobby that you get so much appreciation from ? Imposible right ?
GW's new business idea" let's water everything down, smaller pots and best of all same prices as before" surely just what everyone wanted.
they are just adjusting their old paint to their new formula and standar pot.
@@ysbrann3059 but not adjusting the price... yes. Classic GW
@@ysbrann3059 "adjusting" making more moeny by making the washes worse quality and charging more for it.
@@colson3050 they are not making them worse , they will be differebt but worse or not i think it s beter to try them by ourself before talking about if it beter or worse , maybe their uses will change but that wont make them useless.
@@ysbrann3059 bro were in the comments of a video showing them off??? hello? they look 10x worse on flat surfaces. it looks worse then army painters washes(Which I use) and the cost is a huge difference.
Thanks for the update! I am heading out to stock up on the old stuff now!
I was initially quite happy because - at the rate I paint and use them - I've got enough left of the old washes to last a year or two. But I'm also overdue to knock over a paint pot, so...
Put it in a dropper bottle.
If you can't be bothered to put it in droppers, just get in the habit of putting what you need on a wet palette with a pipette. It's not going to hurt your wet palette or get too thin, no matter what people say.
Try bind 3 of them together using hair band or tape. since I haven't spill any:)
You know, I really am sick of GW changing up/getting rid of paints for absolutely no reason other than pushing out something shiny and new. When you spend years painting miniatures for a single army, the ONE thing you want from a paint range is continuity.
In Food Industry "new formula" = We made a way to make it even CHEAPER!
Looks same for GW
This whole video is a great way of promoting mixing your own washes. Mixing your own is cheaper and you have total control over flow and depth of colour. Personally I make my washes using oil paints which are most versatile and because of there slow drying characteristics allows plenty of time to adjust coverage and depth of staining. Using turps they can be thinned as wanted so amount of 'spread' can be adjusted exactly and where too much has been applied a wipe with cloth dampened with turps will allow either complete removal or subtle adjustments to be made. Oil pants also allow some interesting affects like depicting rust stains which peter out as they spread down the rusted object, the same goes of dicpicting leaking fluids or bleeding wounds. Oil paints are by there nature transparent allowing different coloured washed to be overlaid which can create some unique effects.
Never thought I would ever see Uncle Atom loose his cool like this, the man was in a rage! 😁
Seriously? I was considering getting them but thought that a Nuln oil, seraphim coeila and agrax earthshade equaivelent existed? If so I no longer need to buy GW's :)))
Uncle Atom is so polite and reasonable even when he doesn't find something entirely satisfying, I think this is the closest to nerd-raging we are ever going to see him 😜
@Derrick Marais For good reasons!
@@wraithface4410 Oil washes...black, Burnt Umber, and pick a teal
Oil paints are steady amd generally unchanging.
I tend to use Vallejo inks and dilute with Vallejo matt varnish plus an equal amount of water. Cheaper and in my experience, better.
I think you nailed it when you mentioned "workflow". Over the years, gw forced me to change my workflow many times due to changing/adding/discontinuing paints. While I find a good thing to explore new stuff, paints and recipes, I don't like being forced to. That's one of the reasons I almost entirely switched to other brands years ago, except a few gw paint here and there
Only GW products I still buy are Agrax earth shade, Nuln oil, sometimes sepia and their brushes. Out of all of these Agrax is the most important. I'm worried this might make models I paint in the future look different from the ones I've already painted.
Really? I've always found their brushes to be grossly overpriced.
@@stevenschnepp576 the climate I live in is high desert. What that means for painting: you have to use a wet pallette and often thin your paints with a drying retarder instead of water. If the appropriate steps aren't taken, the paint can actually dry on your brush before you can get it from the pallette onto your miniature. Most brushes, particularly those that are synthetic can't handle this environment. The very tips will immediately bend after just one or two uses. The standard Citadel small layer brush is the easiest and least expensive brush I can find in my area that handles this climate. And yes, I'm aware they contract them from another company.
Interesting. I've actually switched to the Tamiya Panel Line for these colors personally. I find the advantage with it is I can easily remove any excess after it dries, and it dries in minutes.
I found that for the contrast paints, just adding water would make them flow a lot better and behave like washes. Use contrast medium to make them more transparent. That was one feature I liked, I could get very different flows and effects depending on how I diluted it. In fact, I preferred that to the straight washes like Nuln Oil.
Thank you for this! As a Necron player, Nuln Oil is incredibly important!
Thank you for putting this out there! I have been slowly replacing my paints with other manufacturers and was hoping to continue using the washes from GW as they were doing a very good job. Considering the pot size and the issues you've mentioned I now want to look a different direction for my shading needs.
I'm gonna try Army Painters next. I love MIGs and Tamiyas also.
It may be a slight change but the consistency of paint colours in an army is really important, as those 3 in particular are used on all my models i will either have to buy up the old stock so i can stay consistent with new models or try and colour match my own wash because i really don't want to have to repaint all my models to make sure they match.
I really appreciate your review, what I would say about the new stuff is that you have to apply it differently to the old shades. You have to be more mindful of how much is on your brush and where it goes. With the old stuff I just use to slop it on and then re-paint my base layer, whereas with the new shades you can reduce the amount of work you have to do after you've shaded the recesses.
I'm definitely looking forward to trying out the reformulated shades, but I always love hearing your thoughts on this stuff, Atom. Its always interesting to me to hear how two different artists can have varying experiences with a product or approach. Looking forward to your vid on the contrasts next!
Remember everyone, 25% reduced size for same price equals 33% higher price for volume! Load up on shades while you can.
Or just buy different stuff from different brands
@@noblegalifreyan4551 you're not wrong...
Reminds me kind of the twinky scam in the early 2000s.
The new versions of the shades are constrast formula :)
The big upside is that you can now mix the shades with the contrast paints!!! Which is AWESOME.
Seems like Army Painter quicksahdes (the dropper bottle ones, not the dips in tins) look like a better option now instead of the reformated GW stuff.
Weren't they always? Vallejo and Army Painter are almost always a better option than citadel's ridiculously priced, average specialty paints.
@@jackalcoyote8777 I agree in most cases. The exception in the past has been Nuln Oil and Earthshade. I like the contrast paints a lot too, but won't buy any more since the Army Painter Speed Paints are just better
That's exactly how I felt looking at it when it was first announced. You just confirmed I'll be sticking to the old stuff for a while!
Glazing with super thin oil paints has replaced the holy trinity of washes for me for almost a year now. More uniform surface tinting, easily erasable mistakes and the ability to streak for fast weathering make them a joy to work with
I can only paint one way and that is to slop it on, tabletop ready is all I aspire to 😀 so will have to pick up a few more pots of the old stuff.
Looks like I’ve made the shift to oil washes just in time! I still use GW Shades, just not as often. I am very excited for the new Contrast paints, however.
Every shop in my area is sold out of Nuln oil. Agrax earth is also quite scarce.
the fact that GW can't leave well alone with paints is the best reason to use paints from somewhere else, basically can't say with any certainty that if you come back to a GW army after a few years you will get the paints.
and they have done this before, remember Devlin Mud? near perfection in a pot.. so they changed it
I have the smalllest amount of Devlin mud left. Great wash
@Tabletop Minions
Hello there, You are one if not THE main source of referance for when i try to paint. Especialy now, Last year i had 3 strokes in my brain, 3 bloodcloths, they paralyzed me for a time leaving my right side of my body non functional, stubbon as i am i fought my way back on my feet and got arm and leg forking again, one of the things that helped me get back was that i got a bunch of blood angles i want to paint (arround a company of primaris blood angles) so watching you getting hints and how to's have been a greath help, along with the contrast paints saving me some time doing multiple layers ( :D )
Thank you for your helpfull videos, they are super helpfull!
Kind regars
"Franzi"
This is why I'm glad I over-bought my washes a long while back, and have enough to last potentially years (so long as they aren't in a super hot environment).
Because GW likes to mess things up that don't require any changing at all.
Or until the wife knocks over a pot. RIP Nuln Oil.
Damn good work! I might pop into my local GW and see if their is any left. I have been using army painter for a black wash and although it's not the greatest I know how to use it now.
I think most of us might be switching to another paint brand now. Why is GW doing this, all they had to do was improve.
@@manyslayer5889 transfer it into a dropper bottle
@@thebaron2277 I would but I paint out of the pot like a heathen.
Cheers for the vid about this, as the person who introduced me to zenithal and its surrounding techniques i was waiting to hear your opinion on the reformulation!
I've been using Army Painter shades and they've been okay, in my quest to discover a good Nuln Oil replacement I've now found out about Vallejo army wash which comes in a 200 ml pot and is super cheap. Reviews I've found are generally good so I need to get my hands on it ASAP to try it out!
Excellent video, especially that it was from the nerd bunker!! This is my favourite kind of comparison video, it feels real-time & I love the honesty of opinion too! 😁👍
Never a good sign when (after testing) the reaction to a new product is to rush out and stock up on the old product before it goes completely out of stock.
GW released these for one reason and one reason only. As an excuse to give you less paint that has less pigment (and saves them a ton of money) for the same price. Period. Shrinkflation...it's a real thing with all corporations.
Combined with the inflation we've seen, causing our already expensive hobby to skyrocket.
I have to wonder whether it's that the CEOs are getting greedy, or tons of companies are about to go under if they don't adjust. And even if they do adjust, with nobody able to afford their products, they'll collapse anyway.
@@PsychicAlchemy it's greed. Disruptions did cause prices to go up, but businesses have taken the excuse to not pass just the cost increases they experienced from shipping disruptions onto customers, but then add another 20, 30, 50 percent onto the prices on top of it and pretend that they are just dealing with covid and the war. They are lying
@@EAfirstlast Consider that often the effects of inflation can compound, especially if their partners in manufacturing and distribution are trying to keep ahead of inflation.
@@PsychicAlchemy Studies are being done. Inflation for consumers is outpacing inflation for business. Dramatically so in comparison to wages
Where would this hobby be without Agrax and Nuln Oil? It's like eating dinner without a knife and fork at this point.
I'm really interested to see if everyone starts to learn actual painting techniques, or if the old wash pots just go huge up in value.
@@jackalcoyote8777 washing is a "real technique" but it's one of many. Like a step in a recipe that's optional.
Most people don't just only wash their models and call it a day.
I'm glad I went and got a bunch of Drakenhof Nightshade pots for my son's Ultramarines - he's 11 and the classic method of base coat, shade, layer, drybrush highlight works well for him.
When I do use washes, I prefer the army painter ones because they behave more like inks. I do use seraphim sepia once in a while still because I like the tone and haven't found a good replacement for it yet, but I also haven't looked very hard.
For the last year or so I've been relying more on oil washes and Tamiya panel liners than hobby washes, but that's the gunpla nerd in me.
I use mostly Army painter paint but used GW washes - but started using Army painter washes and enjoying them although I did love the GW green wash they used to do..... Still miss that one lol
Sounds like a great time to try out oil washes, especially if you like your minis dank.
Ok, looks like there are two options now:
1.) Say hello to the Washes of companys like Vallejo or The Army Painter. (Which are good Products. I'm kind of a hopper through this washes all the time, because sometimes I can't get the wash I want from one company.)
2.) Find a recepy to mix your own washes online. (There are a few.)
Either way: GW tries the old trick of getting more money for less product.
Its really skanky of them to decrease the amount you get.
@@remusventanus5341 Sadly, everybody's doing it, as their halfway cynical moves to "fight inflation". Just take a look round the grocery store and pay attention to the sizes you can buy today vs. what you could just a year ago. Food producers can get away with it because I need to eat. I don't need GW washes when there are other good alternatives.
Yay, now I need to buy contrast medium to thin my washes!!! thanks GW :(
Even if they made the paint "better" it still wouldn't be good because it's gonna be impossible to make models look the same as your old ones and that matters to me a lot more. If they just made new stuff that would be fine, but why take away?
They are cutting costs for themselves with the paint mixture while upping the prices. Pretty bad behaviour from GW there.
I've had armies painted over the last 30 years that I'm still adding to. That is about 5 different changes of paint ranges. This isn't really a problem, it always matches closely enough.
@@Tallio100 but the paint is beter than before ? And hey are just starting to standardize their pot
Why take it ways ? for the same reason they don t sell their very old model , because it cost a lot just to keep that in the production chain.
@@ysbrann3059 ‘Standardise their pot’ hahahahahaha fucking copium. It’s interesting how their pots didn’t ‘standardise’ themselves to 24ml now isn’t it?
Great video Adam, good info, seemed well thought out and properly tested. I have yet to buy the contrast-y shades, but I'm glad I haven't gone out to buy them. My initial thought was that they would be great, but not all that glitters is gold, it would seem, while I'm not opposed to change, I feel like this new iteration of shades is still in testing with the general 40k customer base, and I cant wait to see the future of shades and your videos on them
This is weird, Vince’s test (literally the same, splitting Space Marines in 2) gives the opposite result: less blotchiness and less staining with the new ones…
Vince moves the paint around a lot more, soaks up excess, teases it into where he wants the paint to go, basically doesn’t let it blotch on flat surfaces. Which is realistically how you should do it with both paints.
A lot of painters will just goop it all over and let it dry. I’m those cases, yeah, the old stuff was probably more forgiving as it flowed into the recesses a bit more without them trying.
@@popcorngenerator1925 well I mean that’s exactly what was outlined at the end of the video. But I do prefer the convenience of the older shades a lot more. You could do so much more with them too in the realm of control, I feel. That quality it had to sink itself into recesses and how easy it was to manipulate it after you’d applied it was just so much better
@@popcorngenerator1925 issue is most people don't paint like Vince, most people paint like Adam and just splotches it on.
My good friend Vince is an award winning painter - he doesn’t “slop it on” like most people do. Like I said - if you’re very careful, the new stuff will probably work well. However, most of us aren’t as careful as Vince. Thanks for watching!
Yeah, Im very excited about its use in metallics.
I'm glad I bought WAYYYY to many washes now... Thanks GW for making my insane hubris of buying more washes than I'll ever need validated. :D
I usually water down the sepia a bit when I use it so it being thinner for the new version isn't a surprise.
I love using slightly watered down Nuln Oil for black lining, Sepia for adding a bit of depth to faces and browns/tans as well as copper and non-silver metallics.
This is exactly why I invested in P3 and Valejo paints. 8+ years using them with little to no change or headaches like this. Makes the hobby more affordable as well, in my area Citadel paints are the priciest and least performative.
If the shades feel too thick, get a bottle of acrylic flow improver from an art/craft/hobby shop. Put a few (5-6) drops into the shade, and shake vigorously. It should loosen the shade up without diminishing the colour. A bottle of flow improver will last you for a good long time, and is a great investment for your paints/washes.
Good video but may I pose a challenge? This is a good thing (not the shrinkflation of the pots - that sucks). It's a good thing because it will encourage the community not to basecoat their minis and then *drench* them with shade. People will thin their shades, and move toward recess shading and pinwashing. The Citadel paint system is very influential, and this will lead to fewer bad habits.
Looking forward to how this turns out. Hopefully they bring back the old formula. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
Oh no! That’s me done with my favourite washes. Guess I’ll look at Army Painters stuff.
My thoughts exactly
I’m still interested in testing out the new washes, but I finally got around to testing out oil washes this week and I was blown away; having more working time with the wash has improved my painting a lot.
I should try oil washes, but I actually want something that dries quicker, usually. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions Enamel washes dry fast, and a q-tip with enamel thinner gives natural blends with any clean up. Game changer for me.
I've been using Contrast paint instead of GW's "shade" paints, and as I don't glob it all over for recess shading it works quite well. So the change to a "shade" mixed with the same medium as Contrast paint doesn't concern me much. What intrigues me is if I now have to buy Contrast Medium to thin the "new" "shades". Of course, as many have stated, GW don't do themselves any favours with their anti-consumer practices, like using shrinkflation on these "new" washes, it would seem many are getting fed up with it, as am I, but there are enough apologists that GW will never get the message...
don't buy contrast medium, its just matte medium and water.
Contrast medium isn't a real think. Mix matte medium or acrlyic medium with flow improver. You can get Liquitex brand of both of these at Hobby Lobby in the states (and probably Tescoe's in the islands)
Vallejo game wash "Sepia shade" was a great replacement for me a few years ago, it's great. I don't think my heart could handle spilling another GW wash pot again, it would implode with rage.
One trick to really feel the consistency of a paint is to paint a little line on your left hand, you can very easily tell how it goes down the natural recesses of skin and it doesn't absorb like it does if you test on paper.
Sounds like they pulled a "new Coke", can't wait for GW "classic" washes.
for those despairing at the loss of the old shades: come to vallejo, we have everything and more.
GW “Classic Coke” repackaging is right around the corner…coming to a local hobby store near you 😳
you should consider making a video about alternative not GW shades available and how well they do the job
you are totally justified in referring to those three washes as the "Holy Trinity." they are the "go to" for so much!
I'd include Reikland in there as well
I want to recommend the Green Stuff World washes, Andalusian Earth and Ancient Sepia (ca. equivalents of Agrax and S Sepia). Right now my favorite washes.
The old shades were excellent the way they were, they didn't need to change them, they were great for all-over color modulation. I might just have to switch to oils and ditch the old style entirely, just so I'm not at the whims of proprietary blends.
Yeah. I've been messing with oil washes for a bit now (typically for larger models though)..but I may need to figure a way to just completely switch over before my agrax runs out. Such a shame, I loved that wash
you wont regret it
Buy artist inks +medium and make your own if you want to stick with acrylics.
@@demon1103 I've watched a couple videos now on artists who paint their minis basically entirely with oils, and they results are quite good. The process doesn't seem much more difficult in most cases other than a little more care with drying, and some clear coat layers to hold things down.
I've been learning to make my own ink washes lately and honestly it's been a great experience. No more need to worry about proprietary blends, just my own knowledge.
We had this when they lost Delven Mud and that line amazing washes have some saved for special days and nothing works as well talent in a bottle
As someone who works in the paint industry I think this reformulation is probably because of a material shortage forcing them to find new ways to make stuff. At least that's what pretty much every paint manufacturer in the states are forced to do right now. For example the one of the main ingredients for latex paint had it's allocation at my work reduced to 40% of what we bought back in 2019
Oh damn , thats a interesting comment , thx you for sharing
yup ninjon said a similar thing, they behave and feel like contrasts now more than shades and that is clearly evident with how the look almost exactly like how contrasts do over shoulder pads etc.
I am comfortable with change in life, as long as Agrax Earthshade, Seraphim Sepia and Nuln Oil stay exactly the same. Seriously, why would they mess with those!?!
I did the exact same thing and restocked my shades - after this video I might even hunt down some more and increase my stockpile
Washes were the last good reason I had for paying a premium on Citadel paint, I guess now there’s no good reason 🙃
I have been thinning down Speed Paint for my washes lately. I also use Tamiya panel liner more than GW washes. A carry over from building tank models.
24ml to 18ml for the same price? they're such conmen
I moved towards AK-3rd and green stuff world paints. I used washes from GW because they were good but now, with price gauging and "fixing" them by geedubs i will just order new from either of earlier mentioned companies. Thank You Uncle Atom for decency in review.
Thank you for your video. This development is highly interesting. I noticed a change in Agrax and the canoptec shade (released with new necrons). These set At bottom after some days of standing exactly like contrast paints, which is annoyong as hell. I think they changed the formula because of resource or financial reasons.
Helpful as always. On my way to buy some shades before the new ones come out
Hmm... they look okay to me. The biggest annoyance will be shaking them up. The old ones were so easy to use. I wish they hadn't changed them though: these washes are renowned across the hobby as being excellent. Messing with them is a massive gamble.
Used all of them and they seem fine…not sure if they were better or worse but they did what I wanted them to do
It was refreshing to see a paint, paint in the style I do and see how the new shades perform. I've seen lots of videos about them, but its mostly people who know how to use contrast (spoiler alert, these new shades are watered down contrast), and you do need to move the paint around like contrast.
I'm doing the same buying the old ones up where I can. Gutted they have changed sepia. Use it for my nids.
If you want see how they or if you like them then Warhammer stores are letting you try them out on a couple of models - I did and really are very nice to use in the style I paint (bonus I got to keep the models)
I got to test all of them at my gw store, and I feel like I would want a bottle of the old stuff, and a bottle of the new stuff on hand. I would have greatly prefered the new nuln oil for my night lords over the old nuln oil. It tinting things less is a HUGE boon for me. I don't see this as ruined at all. My Casandora yellow though, how will I ever paint blonde hair again if I knock my pot over, really unhappy about that one. My thoughts on agrax are super mixed, but mostly negative. Also mixed on Drakenhoff Nightshade and Druchii violet changes, I think they flowed well, but they work worse for trying to do quick and easy muzzle burn.
I personally didn't have much issue with the gummy-ness when I tried them myself, I suppose its because I don't glop them on? I'm not sure, but I just don't see them as "ruined" like a lot of people in here seem to think. Except casadora yellow. Look how they massacred my boy.
the blue cloth is covering the HUGE cave complex where Reign in Hell was co-written by the demon robot squirrels that keep startling the cats on Sunday mornings
New is not necessarily better. From your results it looks as though the new formulation is better at pin washing as opposed to an overall wash. I will be stocking up on the old formula too. Thanks for this review, it was very helpful.
I find the new shades, specifically the Agrax, is very glossy, almost too glossy. I've double checked that I didn't buy the gloss version. I shake the holy hell out of the bottle, and it's still shiny. I've fully converted to using Army painter shades for almost everything now. Also, I don't have to worry about spilling the whole bottle and ruining nearby pants/carpet/cat.
Honestly I like that more - I'm looking for Nuln Oil to do less staining and more of getting to the cracks. I was first excited about this through a video by Ninjon, and this seems to confirm it a bit. If you like the staining effect, I suggest Basilicanum Grey.
Thanks for the heads-up.
I find then too diluted compared to the old wash colour wise. Sure the texture is more "gummier" but hue to me is more lighter
I like the older one cause they are more "grunge-er"
Ok the diluted are more controlled but I find the older one are better for a more dirty look
Please don't use a specialty wash to make your models look weathered and grungey. Mix pigment or black craft paint with dish soap and water if you just want to make necromunda terrain look dirty or something. If you're using nuln oil for that, it's like buying a jeweler's diamond to buy on the end of a power drill.
@@jackalcoyote8777 why not?
I know this was mentioned in the article about the new contrast paint but why change what's not broken. I am now going to have to see if I can get some of the old style ones just to keep as I had to do with Thunderhawk Blue Dry.
My biggest critique is that they didn't split the contrast range into base, general and shade categories.
With my specific "painting style" i think i will prefer the new shades. But completely discontinuing any kind of wash/stain product seems super strange to me.
Together with contrast paint, it is literally the only type that benefits from pots instead of dropper bottles.
GW has done this multiple times. I started in 3rd and there used to be a line of Citadel inks that were removed around the same time the pink and purple range got seriously depleted. I can think of 2-3 major overhauls to the paint product line, each changing the colors slightly and major name changes to the point GW would release a comparison chart. Yet with each new iteration, there was always something being removed.
@@greybishop7346 I have always wondered if Army Painter picked up the Inks from the manufacturer when GW started making Shades instead. The timing was pretty close if I remember correctly.
I can see that Coat d'Arms has the "original" ink range. Never mind.
Thank you for this video, really helps me tell who is or is not a shill.
I've seen several videos about these new wash formulas were people just say it's the best thing ever and there's so much better etc etc.
The best thing I could say about them from looking at your test models is that they are different than before.
They don't seem to be more useful or effective in their role, they just don't function the same anymore which in my eyes is a net negative when everyone is already used to the product.
In conclusion, panic buy the old washes, thanks! 😁
I have been using army painters speed paint now over contrast. Also their shades (light/dark tone) which works better for dark shading
Ah how I remember Devlan Mud. GW loves to mess with their stuff for sure.
made agrax look wack
GW may have reformulated, but at least you can still get AP Dark Tone. Army Painter may not have an exact match for Seraphim Sepia or Agrax Earthshade (Which falls somewhere between AP Soft Tone and AP Strong Tone), but I maintain that you could refill an old pot of Nuln Oil with AP Dark Tone and not even the most hardcore GW mark would be able to tell the difference.
This is strange to hear. I was in the shop the other day with some guys using the new washes, and they were saying they were much easier to work with and got better results than the old forumulations. But then again, they weren't slopping it all over flat white.
As you indicated toward the end, it may just come down to what you're using them for.
What happens if you say GW stuff is bad while in the shop?
@@starnostras We do all the time, so... not much?
@@nicholassmith7984 No Inquisitors dispatched? Different philosophy round here...
@@starnostras My regular shop has a really good team. I think they may also be one of the better performing stores around, probably because they have such a good team.
@@starnostras I mean.. i doubt the employees of the store would rush to the defense of Gamesworkshop... i would see other shoppers getting involved before staff does.
Staff usually just wants to sell you something, and if you're in the shop and not causing a fuss, you're still a customer.
Thanks Uncle I appreciate the insight 👍👍
Very interesting, have you used AP washes? They also feel more heavy and sticky compared to old formula GW washes, I like GW nuln oil and Agrax although I prefer AP’s color washes more than GW, they are quite a bit lighter in saturation.
It's amazing how much better the older stuff is.