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I feel like theres a bunch of studios going through similar thing these days (mainly owned by EA). It seems these days people are way more excited for titles released by AA studios who’s developers have the freedom to focus on originality and innovation unlike AAA studios who need to focus on revenue to please the leadership/stock holders.
According to Bungie execs it's more profitable to mess up the release and just go next than to take time to make something good by taking some more time. As we all can see it didn't work out
That’s because none of the devs/writers/ect that made the original Halo games are still with Bungie. Also key people like Marty O’Donnell are long gone too.
I’m holding on to hope man. Marathon is my most anticipated game of all time. Something about the concept and the amazing art style really attracts me. I’m praying for the developers to be in good hands and for the communities around to try and be more positive.
Marathon holds endless potential because of the lore and not because of anything related to PvP. With the direction things are going in however, it appears that Bungie is pilfering one of their own hallowed IPs just to create the video game equivalent of slop.
I don't think the way players interact with the company / the creative really matters. At the end of the day, creative don't have any agency or business decisions, and the company is there to make money for the shareholders, not to make good games. People can shit on the company all they want, as long as a large enough audience keeps funding their predatory techniques, nothing will change. Just look at Fifa and all the other sport games. Hitting them in the wallet is the only thing that works (kinda)
The problem is, most gamers are stupid and continue to support garbage. There’s a reason why I don’t give money to most Live Service/Online Only games, I avoid most of them. I mainly play milsims/tactical shooters and older games, because these do not have the typical modern gaming plagues (Pay To Progress/Grinding/P2W, Engagement Optimized Matchmaking, Lootbox Gambling “Surprise Mechanics”, Battlepasses, Online DRM, excessive DLC/MTXs, etc.).
Marathon rebooted needs the Halo blueprint: 4 player coop campaign, full PvP, forge and PvE (firefight). The Extraction can be the F2P extension connected to it, à la Warzone.
Marathon doesn’t exist because Bungie is making a game they want to play. Marathon exist because the BR market has calcified and studies want a new big genera they can jump in on the ground floor and become the next 100m monthly player game.
I agree, Bungie used to be an industry leader in gameplay innovation. Halo was unlike anything before it and popularised the FPS genre, Destiny 1 was special in its niche position as a FPS game that sat between the casual and hardcore audience. Marathon though? I dont see how it stands out from the crowd. Extraction shooters just seem like the next logical step from the BR genre. But that in and of itself shouldnt be Marathons defining feature because thats not innovation, its just derivative. There was nothing like Halo before Halo, there was nothing like Destiny before Destiny, but I can think of a handfull of things that are like Marathon and the only real question left is whether thats enough to keep Bungie afloat. Even when we consider games that *are* like Destiny and Halo, ones which released after the fact, these games still dont replace Bungies titles because they stll have that special something. I just dont see what Marathon has thats special. If later on in its life-cycle some other title usurps its popularity and leaves it in the dust, what happens to Bungie??
Honestly, good riddance. Their old guard has largely moved on, and they've been employing some of the worst monetization the industry has ever seen. Initial purchase (formerly), paid expansions, battle/season passes, dungeon keys, *_and_* cosmetic microtransactions on top of all of that.
But it is really disappointing that they're recycling the Marathon IP into an extraction shooter with no PvE. It will likely only contribute to sinking Bungie.
Sometimes the people at the top run the company into the ground…. Power and status change most people and not for the better. To all the ones that ever stayed true, you have my respect and real gamers always find ways to expose the turncoats.
Ever since most of the original pillars left the company, Bungie has been on the reggaeton for a while. People are seeing the symptoms now, but the underlying causes have been there since before Marty O'Donnell and Joe Staton were ousted and left respectively.
I feel like this was where the whole studio was always heading once Destiny itself was announced and there was no single player campaign. I've been following Bungie since OG Marathon, as long as they've been multiplayer/coop-only I've been uninterested in playing their games, and it feels like this is the logical end point of the move away from a dedicated story and more towards dragging it out in the interest of continued expansions.
The Problem i see, is that i dont see Marathon in this Game. Im one of the classic Mac Gamers, and played Marathon early Years- But what theyre doing here, does not feel for Marathon to me. So i have to admit, that im not too interested in this Game. Which hurts, because i want it to be good. And i want a Story. And i Want Cool Aliens, and the Dual Wield WSTM- Shotgun....
Thanks! It's a big moment for the channel and honestly they've been great to work with too. It's gonna enable us to make more of the bigger ideas we have for the channel. 😁
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Why is Bungie even wanting to retain their "independence"? They recieved $3.6Bil that was shared across the Studio projects/employees and now they fear thet SONY take "full" control of a company they "fully" acquired? This is management wanting to retain power over caring about the livelyhood of employees AND/OR employees not wanting to lose their extravagant lifestyle/culture (burning cash at insane rate) after SONY hold the reigns. They cannot retain 100 employees a single year after recieving $3.6Bil upfront? Something is clearly wrong at the company tht need external fixing I hope SONY takes full control and audit all Bungies processes, expenses and culture then implement sweeping changes ... they cannot have such leeway while not delivering on the fans, employees and financial expectation of their parent company
There are a few possible reasons. Power for power's sake is one. A Sony takeover could further liquidate redundant Bungie-held jobs. It could obliterate any remaining Bungie internal culture (though...arguably that's something that's already been happening given the latest news). We also don't really know who at Bungie is championing Marathon, what Sony's perception of the game is, and whether a Sony takeover would cancel the project. Few know what working at the studio is like, and how different it is from working at other studios. Company culture in the games industry is varied and incredibly important. The culture of working for Bungie has likely gradually changed over 10 years (some good I'm sure, some bad), but it's undeniable that creatives WANT to work for Bungie *because* it's Bungie. The risk of a Sony takeover is that Bungie isn't Bungie anymore. Though I know many feel like that's been the case for a long time. The saddest part of the news is that the studio has had to cut many of the programs (and employees) that may have made Bungie the studio it was to work for... I'd love to get a look inside and understand the repercussions of all this before making a judgement of what *should* be done - because we really don't know all the details. It's the first I'm hearing about an "extravagant lifestyle/culture." From what we've heard around the industry it sounds like leadership *does* pose a major blockade to Bungie's potential. But I'd love to see the other side of the coin. Or...maybe that would break me. 😂 (Pssst, if any Bungie current/former employees are reading this and want to tell your story - email us!)
Well, you know, maybe if they didn't milk their fans dry, they wouldn't be as angry? Bungie has been doing it for over a decade now, I have zero emphaty towards them.
Not defending the monetization model - we don't like it either. But there's Bungie - the company that sees microtransactions as the foundation for their single, active IP. And then there's Bungie - the artists and animators and sound designers and creatives among its 1100 employees who are trying to build a world worth living in. I can understanding losing faith in the former. But for everything else, there are humans behind the scenes trying something cool happen.
@@VoxelShow I feel for all the devs on bungie, absolutely hate the management, but the devs seem cool That said I can only preach for the company's downfall cause at this point there needs to be casualties to tell the gaming industry as a whole that this shit won't work you know, talking with our wallets and all that I hope the devs find a new place, but I sincerely hope bungie is a name that will only be uttered as a cautionary tale from now on
@@Simply-SylviaaI get what you mean and agree in part, but having a “cautionary tale” has actual consequences on the people working there. The high level executives and managers will just move on to other companies and have cushy severance packages (see failed EA exec also failing at Unity). The actual developers and artists will be the ones left without jobs. Some won’t be able to get another job for a while and others will have to leave the industry as a whole. I’d rather wish that this transforms Bungie as a whole into a better company for its fans and employees instead.
I wish not for the downfall of the studio but for the improvement of everything. Work environment, profiting and management. Who knows, they could come back
The people that made bungie the company it was left a looooong time ago. Making a live service extraction shooter like marathon is just the death throes of bungie
Not playing Marathon for three reason. 1. Bungie. It's not the Bungie of Halo or even of D2 when it was good. 2. Extraction shooter, I don't care for PVP games. And I suck at competitive shooters. 3. Live Service. Fuck. This. Business. Model. If you want to play something refreshing. Stop playing western triple A. Play indy games. That's where the soul of gaming is.
The best way to support developers and not the corporate heads is to have hope. I have hope that Marathon will be a great and I will play as I want without buying needless micro transactions to show them we wanted a good game not cosmetics.
In trouble because they left Microsoft at the top of their game. Destiny was garbage imho and Marathon is already straying far off the original formula for the series which was insanely fun, and straying in a not so good way. Goodbye Bungie. Bring Marathon back with the engaging single player formula of the original series and the amazing multiplayer arena style gameplay. If they don’t do this, they are done. The masses aren’t interested in extraction garbage.
Dude I know, Marathon was a big success for its time, Halo was a huge cultural phenomenon. Destiny is the butt of jokes. Clearly the fans prefer one formula over the other.
I’m really excited for marathon, the cycle frontier capitalized really well but managed very poorly due to a lack of funds. I’m hoping Bungie’s background will be able to make a solid, fun, and fair sci-fi extraction shooter. But as an ex destiny player- I know I’m giving too much hope.
I think they're finding that the biggest issue with Live Service games is the increasing tech debt makes it harder and harder to actually create for the games and that ends up making them unsustainable. Edit: And this for the ones that are "successful."
I love the visual design of the game, I have hopes they learned enough to give this game a actual chance without controversy. They are immersion and gunplay gods I’ll give them that when d2 works IT FUCKING WORKS no doubt about that. BUT I hope this game offers enough to validate the ridiculous price it might be.
While it is hard, I atleast try to believe that Marathon will be a good game, since I was looking forward to it a lot when I saw the first announcements about it
When they announced Marathon i expected great single player campaign like Doom or System Shock. Few weeks later i found out its gonna be Extraction Shooter and i gave up on Bungie.
Two older titles I think Bungie should revive and could work in current gaming environments are Minotaur labyrinth of crete and Pathways Into Darkness. Could see both working as a co-op game similar to warhammer vermintide, or Hunt Showdown.
When I heard Marathon was going to be an extraction shooter it just seal the deal of a game that no one wanted to make or play. Bungie already die during Destiny cut content scandal and that was during when you still had a few core of the old guard still around, but it's been a decade already and there are way fewer of the old guard left not counting the co-founder. Any Bungie fan should've accept already or right now that the old Bungie isn't there anymore.
All those people that got laid off should just come together and make a new game to screw over all the companies that "fired" them. Thats being harsh but at this point I don't think that matters
Unfortunately I'm pessimistic on this topic. Even with all the live service games shutting down I think Marathon will have to fail before a good game will come out. Unfortunately that also means dissolving the board or closing the company. Both options preventing that next good game from coming out.
Decent analysis, albeit a bit melodramatic. The sentiment behind live service is clearly correct but in a world where talentless OnlyFans girls are reaching the top 2% of earners in the world because of the droves of men who are easily separated from small chunks of cash for instant gratification, business will always follow the path of least resistance. And so now we're here looking back on the effects of this model. Corporate boards are typically disconnected from the realities of the customer and staff with the company but it's important to keep in mind that Pete Parsons is not that typical board member. The staff and executives are still passionate creatives who want to do right and continue Bungies legacy but in the end Sony makes the decisions of what choices are made and what messages are made public.
If they wanted to do right to the players. Why trhe fuck are they bringing back Marathon, but making it an extraction shooter?! It should be a single player campaign.
Great video! It’s not the first I have liked, so I’m going to make sure I’m subscribed. I haven’t really cared about Halo since it was under Bungie control and I never got into Destiny. Everything I’ve seen about Marathon has me pretty excited about it and I really hope it doesn’t get canned.
If Sony is the "all-powerful" behemoth they appear to be, they should realize that without a player base, it doesn't matter how much paid content they create. They need to do some serious heavy lifting in the internal relations department and immediately remove the UPPER management that's causing these issues. It was upper management that grossly mismanaged their labor/funding balance, which is the root cause of layoffs. If that's an original Bungie employee who's strung out and grossly overpaid, so be it. If instead, it was an existing Sony employee(s) that are now overseeing a studio they have no real connection to, it's even MORE pertinent that they be let go, and replaced by someone who understands the love these employees have for their IP, someone who can properly delegate, and someone who can efficiently plan and coordinate projects. It would be such a shame to see another beloved studio go under over corporate greed and mismanagement of people. Humans. Humans devoted to making beautiful, compelling games they love as much as their fans do.
I'm still playing destiny bc of the guns I've gotten over the years. I'm seasonal level 620 this season, light level is 1843. I will absolutely not buy marathon no matter what. My journey with bungie is over after this game
Hey all, Ive been playing Destiny since D1!! To say they're just "cosmetics" is correct, but what bungie fucked up on was making Ornaments (weapon skins) barrels longer on some weapons such as The Chaperone shotgun, which actually increases the range of the weapon overall. Even though its just "cosmetic", therefore making it a pay to win, or pay to have an advantage, also with rampant cheating in the PvP scene, abandonment of gambit, and reskinning and reselling weapon models, it seems their days are numbered if the new expansion doesn't live up to the community's expectations. If the game fails I'm reporting Bungie to the BBB for poor customer service practices, and deceptive advertising. We still havent received the weapons shown during the Partition: Reset activity screen but the characters on the screen are holding weapons not in the game for almost over a year now. Only one gun was released, they must not have enough employees to finish. Sorry if anyone found this offensive, this comes from a place of passion and dedication. I truly believed Destiny had the potential to be a story to put alongside LOTR, WoW, and Warhammer 40K. and at the moment, the community has so much going on in the real world that the one place we wanted to excape to has been destroyed, or vaulted. Mad respect for the developers of this game having to put up with Pete Parsons and the likes of upper management who contribute nothing artistically or emotionally to the game.
I've been a destiny player for 5 years, the bungie that made Forsaken and Halo is long dead. They don't care anymore about innovating, it's why we've been stuck in the same seasonal model for multiple years now despite people begging for it to change. Now that player counts are tanking bungie is finally innovating because they have to try and claw back player counts. No body asked for Marathon, the extraction shooter genre is already pretty full as is with just Tarkov existing but now that Bungie's name is getting trashed by their bad decisions... who would want to play a game from a studio that fired their dev team? Marathon would basically need to bring something so outside the box and innovative that it out performs what Cyberpunk can currently do, something that I don't believe Bungie is capable of doing anymore. We will see come The Final Shape dlc but... I doubt anything is going to change unless Sony takes over Edit: I would also like to point out that Sony gave Bungie something around *a billion* dollars just for employee retention and they still fired 10% of their studio
I love the ideas behind Pathways into Darkness and Marathon, I expected and wanted a return to more "sci-fantasy" mix up of those two despite being a PC first and thought very, I mean very little of Halo. But damn I am incapable of giving a darn about this iteration of """"""""""""""""""""""""""marathon""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Once I learned Marathon was going to be a live service extraction shooter instead of the philosophical narrative driven masterpiece that it was I lost all hope, excitement, and respect for Bungie and though the loss of jobs is terrible I really don't care about the studio at all anymore. Uninstalling Destiny 2 was such a great decision for me and if I could take back every minute playing that game and every dollar I spent (which wasn't a lot admittedly) I would do it in a heartbeat. The audacity of slapping a battle pass on my childhood like that with Marathon is not something I can support. I know they haven't said anything about a battle pass but I highly HIGHLY doubt they wouldn't put one in considering the whole point was making live service game. What they're doing with Marathon is akin to making a rated M Super Mario dating sim, they're just bastardizing something that was so important to me growing up and I'm not bothering with this company anymore.
Although I'm too young to have played the originals, from what I've learned, I think that Marathon would work amazingly in an extraction shooter. The Marathon games told their story through it's enviroment which works really well with extraction shooter, think Escape from Tarkov. Like imagine if we entered the playable area and we did our missions which would tell us one story but then theres also hidden terminals throughout the map that told us another/more of the story. That would be sick. I know the art style is a big departure but its also a different take on the universe and maybe if it's successful enough, there could be new single player Marathons and maybe even a remake. Lastly the monitization, I really hope that since they're with Sony, that maybe they'll take some notes from Helldivers where yeah there's microtransactions, but hopefully they wont feel forced/overwelming. Like if there was an option to speed up gaining new cosmetics without it taking super long would be nice and they would still be able to lots of money. This all is if Bungie's writers can create a cohesive story that holds us into the game for years to come that also fits with the narrative theme's of the originals.
@@overinkedcereal3676 I don't disagree with you, you could take the marathon universe and make a compelling extraction shooter. Bungie at least will know how to make the game mechanically fun. I also look forward to whatever cinematics they come up with. As opposed to this as I am chances are I will play it with my little brother to relive some of the nostalgia of at least being in that universe again maybe for like a couple of nights or something. All that being said it's just fundamentally not a genre I'm even interested in. The terminals from back then were because they didn't have the resources or technology to tell the story they wanted to, it would be cute if they re-introduce them but also sort of insulting since we have the technology to tell the story properly now. I can't see the meta narrative of player apotheosis being translated into an extraction shooter and it working well. I grew up with Halo secretly wishing that Marathon would some day get the big AAA blockbuster treatment love that Halo was one day but now I have to live with this multiplayer only service game and now Halo sucks too so fuck me I guess. I appreciate the optimism but the continual downfall of Destiny coupled with Sony buying them and the lay offs only scream to me that this game will be a hollow shell that looks cool on the surface and probably plays well too, but it'll just be the same cash grab nonsense we've all seen a million times over. Sony bought them so they can have their live service slot machine, that's the only reason they got Bungie. They have their own in house studios to make the story driven single player stuff like Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch, Bungie is a purely monetary "battle pass" move. But hey who knows? I might be wrong. If they really find some way to actually tell the story through an unmissable multiplayer experience that is so fun even I can't put it down then I owe you a skin from whatever cash shop they come up with. In any case I am very excited to see how they're going to depict Durandal and who's going to voice him, at the very least that should be really cool.
@@ZeUberflipit really sucks that Bungie was acquired for monetization purposes but hopefully PlayStation sees the success with its story games and Helldivers 2 and hold back on the “battlepass” stuff. Then to the terminal things, I think the technical limitations forcing the use of terminals is part of Marathon’s identity. While I agree that cinematics would be cool and I’m sure they’ll happen, it would be cool if they used the terminals and cutscenes/gameplay story conflicted. Like imagine if the AI are lying to you again but through exploration of terminals, you can learn more about what is actually happening.
@@overinkedcereal3676 Here's hoping, if I get proved wrong then there's a new great game to play in an IP I am fond of so I can't really complain if that happens. The terminal idea is pretty cool. I just hope they don't use it as a crutch but working it in like an easter egg or implementing it the way you were saying would be pretty interesting.
Back in the day, parents tried to get kids to stop playing video games because it causes violence. Now? I think I'll prevent my kids from playing video games because it is just gambling now.
Considering how studios like Insomniac and Kojima Productions are allowed to create games how they'd like to, and Bungie's pile of shit GM turned CEO's "don't overdeliver" mantra, coupled with his "we're not the type of company where execs take pay cuts to avoid layoffs", and "we no longer make games we want to play" ethos, coupled with Sony being sick of his shit already in canceled meetings etc... A Sony takeover at the top of Bungie would probably be a much better thing then what he have now.
Good. After the way they did Destiny 2, and pretty much self sabotaged their own game, I hope Marathon fails hard, and Bungie gets sold off piecemeal by Sony. All they had to do was listen to the community , instead of the shareholders, develop Destiny 2, and be happy with making it the best game ever, (which indeed it was for a time). But no, Bungie had to chase trends, and try and "innovate", and make their game something THEY wanted to play, instead of something the community wanted to play. Now they're done, God willing. An hopefully the world will be a better place without their bullshit ass "live service" model, that the entire industry is realizing was a failure of an experiment. I hope in the end Bungie declares bankruptcy and is sold by Sony to Microsoft. That will be the icing on the cake.
The live service model hasn't been an experiment in years, is a proven successful model, extremely so actually, why do you think every company wanted in? Live service *is* successful but only one or two games per genre make it and stays alive raking in all the money and due to sunk cost fallacy other ones end up dying as people do not transfer to new GaaS when they have invested in a previous game
Well Bungie is STILL hiring Marathon Devs as of this moment. Only a few but, still. The Final Shape looks to...shape things up, I think. ☺😉. All good...and bad, things have their moment of glory and will soon fade into...
I don’t know anything about gaming companies but I know bungie really went out their way to keep our servers up and running even when halo 3 was still up besides the company they give out hard earned gear away too ez to players barely starting the game during endgame just like they gave away recon helmet on halo 3 if anyone cared….
Without monetization the game is going to make a billion dollars less. Maybe more! The model bungie is probably thinking about is Valorant. Business always try to emulate what's popular and Valorant has been consistently profitable. It matters less that both games are very different, that's a game designer problem to solve, businessmen will direct the game towards a proven monetization model. Someone will pay for that, afterall, free to pay models prey on neurodivergent people.
TBH Destiny fans are notoriously whiney. They've been complaining about the game like this since D1. There's nothing Bungie can do to please the Destiny fanbase.
All these gaming studios seem to be learning about sacrificing short term gains for long term stability. People are tired of the poorly delivered live service content.
I left Destiny 2 years ago, once they began going away from what made that game appealing by inserting social justice garbage and forcing ideologies within the game it forced me and many in my clan split. At one point my clan : The Old School Gamerz had about 75 members. I could no longer stomach playing that game anymore after Bungies open comments to me on Twitter I was done. Bungie is completely tone deaf. They love an echo chamber and I would rather get on D1 to just reeber the real tone of the game but I don't. I'm sorry for the loss of jobs but it's Bungie's fault. I'm glad I'm completely done. I was pleased to see this video though. It was done really well.
Didnt watch the full video, but did you talk/know there video is botted? The first 6 hours of marathon video release (i watched it announced live on one of the game shows with less then 200k live watchers) so when i got on youtube and they somehow magically got 19 million view in less then 6 hours, whitch IS NUTS so i and everyone knew it was botted... when only 200k people and media only knew about it existence for less then a few hours... making it the MOST popular game ON EARTH it didn't trend or even show on feeds. All the comments were deleted including my comments over the pass 7 months. Ive made 4 plus comments calling them out over different times including day 1 So at least there youtube is active... In everyway, i would say this game is a scam or not even real. But the fact that its bungie and was on a live game event that i watch. I guess it is
The studio has been "in danger of dying" 5 times. LOL. it is a multi billion dollar company with 1300 employees. Spare me the BS story and make a good story in the game.
This guy is blaming fans and studios for the corportization of the gaming industry when it's just market incentives. It's only going to get worse, not better. As the economy grows and bigger monopolies form, each studio will be milked dry for every dime they're worth. Of course fans are getting angry because they need to vent their frustration with constant monetization during an economic crisis.
why do devs cry so much when laid off? go make an indie game bro. u signed up to work under a company. some people wake up everyday and work at an amazon factory. game devs work in a creative industry, not a vital industry, art people can be very entitled. know what youre signing up for when you go down a creative industry path, indie or under a company. pros and cons. too much whining
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I feel like theres a bunch of studios going through similar thing these days (mainly owned by EA). It seems these days people are way more excited for titles released by AA studios who’s developers have the freedom to focus on originality and innovation unlike AAA studios who need to focus on revenue to please the leadership/stock holders.
Which studios are you thinking of re: EA? 👀
DICE or whoever is making all the madden and fifa games
@@wojtastomal what part do you think is similar? I haven't heard of any major layoffs
Or do you just mean the monetization?
Yeah mainly monetization and releasing unfinished games
According to Bungie execs it's more profitable to mess up the release and just go next than to take time to make something good by taking some more time. As we all can see it didn't work out
I have no hope for Marathon or anything Bungie related. The Bungie that made Halo CE, 2, 3 and REACH is looooong gone.
@jestergodfield690 Or the Bungie that made the original Marathon and Myth for that matter...
@@AirAssault7 Was thinking the same thing
That’s because none of the devs/writers/ect that made the original Halo games are still with Bungie. Also key people like Marty O’Donnell are long gone too.
I’m holding on to hope man. Marathon is my most anticipated game of all time. Something about the concept and the amazing art style really attracts me. I’m praying for the developers to be in good hands and for the communities around to try and be more positive.
lol
The concept?! Dude there a lot of looter shooters out there…
@@SolidJCP not the main concept. More like the collection of the artifacts and how the story or world would progress
Marathon holds endless potential because of the lore and not because of anything related to PvP. With the direction things are going in however, it appears that Bungie is pilfering one of their own hallowed IPs just to create the video game equivalent of slop.
@@SolidJCPI just want another Marathon universe game
I don't think the way players interact with the company / the creative really matters. At the end of the day, creative don't have any agency or business decisions, and the company is there to make money for the shareholders, not to make good games.
People can shit on the company all they want, as long as a large enough audience keeps funding their predatory techniques, nothing will change. Just look at Fifa and all the other sport games.
Hitting them in the wallet is the only thing that works (kinda)
The problem is, most gamers are stupid and continue to support garbage.
There’s a reason why I don’t give money to most Live Service/Online Only games, I avoid most of them.
I mainly play milsims/tactical shooters and older games, because these do not have the typical modern gaming plagues (Pay To Progress/Grinding/P2W, Engagement Optimized Matchmaking, Lootbox Gambling “Surprise Mechanics”, Battlepasses, Online DRM, excessive DLC/MTXs, etc.).
Marathon rebooted needs the Halo blueprint: 4 player coop campaign, full PvP, forge and PvE (firefight). The Extraction can be the F2P extension connected to it, à la Warzone.
So you meeean, Destiny? 😆
Destiny doesn't play anything like a Halo 3/Reach campaign. Destiny doesn't have Forge.@@carryingfire286
Forge and Extraction are not core to what Halo is. 4-man co-op and arena pvp is.
Marathon doesn’t exist because Bungie is making a game they want to play. Marathon exist because the BR market has calcified and studies want a new big genera they can jump in on the ground floor and become the next 100m monthly player game.
I agree, Bungie used to be an industry leader in gameplay innovation. Halo was unlike anything before it and popularised the FPS genre, Destiny 1 was special in its niche position as a FPS game that sat between the casual and hardcore audience.
Marathon though? I dont see how it stands out from the crowd. Extraction shooters just seem like the next logical step from the BR genre. But that in and of itself shouldnt be Marathons defining feature because thats not innovation, its just derivative. There was nothing like Halo before Halo, there was nothing like Destiny before Destiny, but I can think of a handfull of things that are like Marathon and the only real question left is whether thats enough to keep Bungie afloat. Even when we consider games that *are* like Destiny and Halo, ones which released after the fact, these games still dont replace Bungies titles because they stll have that special something. I just dont see what Marathon has thats special. If later on in its life-cycle some other title usurps its popularity and leaves it in the dust, what happens to Bungie??
Honestly, good riddance. Their old guard has largely moved on, and they've been employing some of the worst monetization the industry has ever seen. Initial purchase (formerly), paid expansions, battle/season passes, dungeon keys, *_and_* cosmetic microtransactions on top of all of that.
But it is really disappointing that they're recycling the Marathon IP into an extraction shooter with no PvE. It will likely only contribute to sinking Bungie.
"You Either Die a Hero or Live Long Enough to See Yourself Become the Villain"
Bungie started to overshadow their great legacy
Sometimes the people at the top run the company into the ground…. Power and status change most people and not for the better. To all the ones that ever stayed true, you have my respect and real gamers always find ways to expose the turncoats.
Ever since most of the original pillars left the company, Bungie has been on the reggaeton for a while. People are seeing the symptoms now, but the underlying causes have been there since before Marty O'Donnell and Joe Staton were ousted and left respectively.
I feel like this was where the whole studio was always heading once Destiny itself was announced and there was no single player campaign. I've been following Bungie since OG Marathon, as long as they've been multiplayer/coop-only I've been uninterested in playing their games, and it feels like this is the logical end point of the move away from a dedicated story and more towards dragging it out in the interest of continued expansions.
The Problem i see, is that i dont see Marathon in this Game. Im one of the classic Mac Gamers, and played Marathon early Years- But what theyre doing here, does not feel for Marathon to me. So i have to admit, that im not too interested in this Game. Which hurts, because i want it to be good. And i want a Story. And i Want Cool Aliens, and the Dual Wield WSTM- Shotgun....
Congrats on the sponsorship my dude. Get the bag.
Thanks! It's a big moment for the channel and honestly they've been great to work with too. It's gonna enable us to make more of the bigger ideas we have for the channel. 😁
@@VoxelShow Better help is a heinous company that is under investigation by the FCC for selling peoples personal medical information, not vetting their therapists and many more egregiously evil behaviours. They are an abomination of a company, please do your research and don't promote them.
Why is Bungie even wanting to retain their "independence"? They recieved $3.6Bil that was shared across the Studio projects/employees and now they fear thet SONY take "full" control of a company they "fully" acquired? This is management wanting to retain power over caring about the livelyhood of employees AND/OR employees not wanting to lose their extravagant lifestyle/culture (burning cash at insane rate) after SONY hold the reigns.
They cannot retain 100 employees a single year after recieving $3.6Bil upfront? Something is clearly wrong at the company tht need external fixing
I hope SONY takes full control and audit all Bungies processes, expenses and culture then implement sweeping changes ... they cannot have such leeway while not delivering on the fans, employees and financial expectation of their parent company
There are a few possible reasons. Power for power's sake is one. A Sony takeover could further liquidate redundant Bungie-held jobs. It could obliterate any remaining Bungie internal culture (though...arguably that's something that's already been happening given the latest news). We also don't really know who at Bungie is championing Marathon, what Sony's perception of the game is, and whether a Sony takeover would cancel the project.
Few know what working at the studio is like, and how different it is from working at other studios. Company culture in the games industry is varied and incredibly important. The culture of working for Bungie has likely gradually changed over 10 years (some good I'm sure, some bad), but it's undeniable that creatives WANT to work for Bungie *because* it's Bungie. The risk of a Sony takeover is that Bungie isn't Bungie anymore. Though I know many feel like that's been the case for a long time. The saddest part of the news is that the studio has had to cut many of the programs (and employees) that may have made Bungie the studio it was to work for...
I'd love to get a look inside and understand the repercussions of all this before making a judgement of what *should* be done - because we really don't know all the details. It's the first I'm hearing about an "extravagant lifestyle/culture." From what we've heard around the industry it sounds like leadership *does* pose a major blockade to Bungie's potential. But I'd love to see the other side of the coin. Or...maybe that would break me. 😂 (Pssst, if any Bungie current/former employees are reading this and want to tell your story - email us!)
Well, you know, maybe if they didn't milk their fans dry, they wouldn't be as angry? Bungie has been doing it for over a decade now, I have zero emphaty towards them.
Not defending the monetization model - we don't like it either. But there's Bungie - the company that sees microtransactions as the foundation for their single, active IP. And then there's Bungie - the artists and animators and sound designers and creatives among its 1100 employees who are trying to build a world worth living in.
I can understanding losing faith in the former. But for everything else, there are humans behind the scenes trying something cool happen.
@@VoxelShow I feel for all the devs on bungie, absolutely hate the management, but the devs seem cool
That said I can only preach for the company's downfall cause at this point there needs to be casualties to tell the gaming industry as a whole that this shit won't work
you know, talking with our wallets and all that
I hope the devs find a new place, but I sincerely hope bungie is a name that will only be uttered as a cautionary tale from now on
@@Simply-SylviaaI get what you mean and agree in part, but having a “cautionary tale” has actual consequences on the people working there. The high level executives and managers will just move on to other companies and have cushy severance packages (see failed EA exec also failing at Unity). The actual developers and artists will be the ones left without jobs. Some won’t be able to get another job for a while and others will have to leave the industry as a whole.
I’d rather wish that this transforms Bungie as a whole into a better company for its fans and employees instead.
I wish not for the downfall of the studio but for the improvement of everything. Work environment, profiting and management. Who knows, they could come back
The people that made bungie the company it was left a looooong time ago. Making a live service extraction shooter like marathon is just the death throes of bungie
Really well made content.. Keep it up Voxel...
Anyways, here's my condolences to the developers - stay strong...
Not playing Marathon for three reason.
1. Bungie. It's not the Bungie of Halo or even of D2 when it was good.
2. Extraction shooter, I don't care for PVP games. And I suck at competitive shooters.
3. Live Service. Fuck. This. Business. Model.
If you want to play something refreshing. Stop playing western triple A. Play indy games. That's where the soul of gaming is.
Yeah I don’t see why they’re hedging their bet on a genre most people aren’t into. As long as it’s an extraction shooter I probably won’t be playing.
the fact this video has not gotten many views or recognition is a shame because your points really need to be heard by everyone.
Hey thanks! Share the video around if you think more need to hear about it!
The best way to support developers and not the corporate heads is to have hope. I have hope that Marathon will be a great and I will play as I want without buying needless micro transactions to show them we wanted a good game not cosmetics.
I feel like Final Shape will let them hold on for a bit longer - it was so great
Wow awesome video as usual!! And congrats on the sponsorship :)
In trouble because they left Microsoft at the top of their game. Destiny was garbage imho and Marathon is already straying far off the original formula for the series which was insanely fun, and straying in a not so good way. Goodbye Bungie. Bring Marathon back with the engaging single player formula of the original series and the amazing multiplayer arena style gameplay. If they don’t do this, they are done. The masses aren’t interested in extraction garbage.
Yep. I had so much good will for Bungie after Halo, but I didn't like Destiny, and will probably skip Marathon. Sad.
Dude I know, Marathon was a big success for its time, Halo was a huge cultural phenomenon. Destiny is the butt of jokes. Clearly the fans prefer one formula over the other.
I’m really excited for marathon, the cycle frontier capitalized really well but managed very poorly due to a lack of funds. I’m hoping Bungie’s background will be able to make a solid, fun, and fair sci-fi extraction shooter. But as an ex destiny player- I know I’m giving too much hope.
I think they're finding that the biggest issue with Live Service games is the increasing tech debt makes it harder and harder to actually create for the games and that ends up making them unsustainable.
Edit: And this for the ones that are "successful."
I love the visual design of the game, I have hopes they learned enough to give this game a actual chance without controversy. They are immersion and gunplay gods I’ll give them that when d2 works IT FUCKING WORKS no doubt about that. BUT I hope this game offers enough to validate the ridiculous price it might be.
While it is hard, I atleast try to believe that Marathon will be a good game, since I was looking forward to it a lot when I saw the first announcements about it
We're also in the optimistic boat! Studios in trouble have often been able to pull out some incredible wins at the 11th hour. Fingers crossed!
When they announced Marathon i expected great single player campaign like Doom or System Shock. Few weeks later i found out its gonna be Extraction Shooter and i gave up on Bungie.
Two older titles I think Bungie should revive and could work in current gaming environments are Minotaur labyrinth of crete and Pathways Into Darkness. Could see both working as a co-op game similar to warhammer vermintide, or Hunt Showdown.
When I heard Marathon was going to be an extraction shooter it just seal the deal of a game that no one wanted to make or play. Bungie already die during Destiny cut content scandal and that was during when you still had a few core of the old guard still around, but it's been a decade already and there are way fewer of the old guard left not counting the co-founder. Any Bungie fan should've accept already or right now that the old Bungie isn't there anymore.
All those people that got laid off should just come together and make a new game to screw over all the companies that "fired" them. Thats being harsh but at this point I don't think that matters
I do hope for the best. Marathon looks promising.
Love your insight and delivery!
It could just be Bungie, as a company, has run its course. Nothing lasts forever.
Unfortunately I'm pessimistic on this topic. Even with all the live service games shutting down I think Marathon will have to fail before a good game will come out. Unfortunately that also means dissolving the board or closing the company. Both options preventing that next good game from coming out.
Decent analysis, albeit a bit melodramatic. The sentiment behind live service is clearly correct but in a world where talentless OnlyFans girls are reaching the top 2% of earners in the world because of the droves of men who are easily separated from small chunks of cash for instant gratification, business will always follow the path of least resistance. And so now we're here looking back on the effects of this model.
Corporate boards are typically disconnected from the realities of the customer and staff with the company but it's important to keep in mind that Pete Parsons is not that typical board member. The staff and executives are still passionate creatives who want to do right and continue Bungies legacy but in the end Sony makes the decisions of what choices are made and what messages are made public.
If they wanted to do right to the players. Why trhe fuck are they bringing back Marathon, but making it an extraction shooter?! It should be a single player campaign.
Great video! It’s not the first I have liked, so I’m going to make sure I’m subscribed.
I haven’t really cared about Halo since it was under Bungie control and I never got into Destiny. Everything I’ve seen about Marathon has me pretty excited about it and I really hope it doesn’t get canned.
If Sony is the "all-powerful" behemoth they appear to be, they should realize that without a player base, it doesn't matter how much paid content they create. They need to do some serious heavy lifting in the internal relations department and immediately remove the UPPER management that's causing these issues. It was upper management that grossly mismanaged their labor/funding balance, which is the root cause of layoffs. If that's an original Bungie employee who's strung out and grossly overpaid, so be it. If instead, it was an existing Sony employee(s) that are now overseeing a studio they have no real connection to, it's even MORE pertinent that they be let go, and replaced by someone who understands the love these employees have for their IP, someone who can properly delegate, and someone who can efficiently plan and coordinate projects.
It would be such a shame to see another beloved studio go under over corporate greed and mismanagement of people. Humans. Humans devoted to making beautiful, compelling games they love as much as their fans do.
GOOD
I hope they do before they can drag Marathon's legacy down with it.
this channle wod be made by a talented concerned empathetic human being
I'm still playing destiny bc of the guns I've gotten over the years. I'm seasonal level 620 this season, light level is 1843. I will absolutely not buy marathon no matter what. My journey with bungie is over after this game
Good video man, as always
Don't care
220 people laid off today. And about 150 moving to SIE(Sony) so they could keep a job.
Hey all, Ive been playing Destiny since D1!! To say they're just "cosmetics" is correct, but what bungie fucked up on was making Ornaments (weapon skins) barrels longer on some weapons such as The Chaperone shotgun, which actually increases the range of the weapon overall. Even though its just "cosmetic", therefore making it a pay to win, or pay to have an advantage, also with rampant cheating in the PvP scene, abandonment of gambit, and reskinning and reselling weapon models, it seems their days are numbered if the new expansion doesn't live up to the community's expectations.
If the game fails I'm reporting Bungie to the BBB for poor customer service practices, and deceptive advertising. We still havent received the weapons shown during the Partition: Reset activity screen but the characters on the screen are holding weapons not in the game for almost over a year now. Only one gun was released, they must not have enough employees to finish.
Sorry if anyone found this offensive, this comes from a place of passion and dedication. I truly believed Destiny had the potential to be a story to put alongside LOTR, WoW, and Warhammer 40K. and at the moment, the community has so much going on in the real world that the one place we wanted to excape to has been destroyed, or vaulted.
Mad respect for the developers of this game having to put up with Pete Parsons and the likes of upper management who contribute nothing artistically or emotionally to the game.
6:18 Wtf is that picture man. I get the point and parallel to the point but that is just not a picture that should exist regardless.
6:19 That's veeery inappropriate you naughty little...
I've been a destiny player for 5 years, the bungie that made Forsaken and Halo is long dead. They don't care anymore about innovating, it's why we've been stuck in the same seasonal model for multiple years now despite people begging for it to change. Now that player counts are tanking bungie is finally innovating because they have to try and claw back player counts. No body asked for Marathon, the extraction shooter genre is already pretty full as is with just Tarkov existing but now that Bungie's name is getting trashed by their bad decisions... who would want to play a game from a studio that fired their dev team? Marathon would basically need to bring something so outside the box and innovative that it out performs what Cyberpunk can currently do, something that I don't believe Bungie is capable of doing anymore. We will see come The Final Shape dlc but... I doubt anything is going to change unless Sony takes over
Edit: I would also like to point out that Sony gave Bungie something around *a billion* dollars just for employee retention and they still fired 10% of their studio
I don't think they made Forsaken?
It will be no loss.
If they make a shitty game whatever but when you have shit monetization then we got a problem.
I love the ideas behind Pathways into Darkness and Marathon, I expected and wanted a return to more "sci-fantasy" mix up of those two despite being a PC first and thought very, I mean very little of Halo.
But damn I am incapable of giving a darn about this iteration of """"""""""""""""""""""""""marathon""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Once I learned Marathon was going to be a live service extraction shooter instead of the philosophical narrative driven masterpiece that it was I lost all hope, excitement, and respect for Bungie and though the loss of jobs is terrible I really don't care about the studio at all anymore. Uninstalling Destiny 2 was such a great decision for me and if I could take back every minute playing that game and every dollar I spent (which wasn't a lot admittedly) I would do it in a heartbeat. The audacity of slapping a battle pass on my childhood like that with Marathon is not something I can support. I know they haven't said anything about a battle pass but I highly HIGHLY doubt they wouldn't put one in considering the whole point was making live service game. What they're doing with Marathon is akin to making a rated M Super Mario dating sim, they're just bastardizing something that was so important to me growing up and I'm not bothering with this company anymore.
Although I'm too young to have played the originals, from what I've learned, I think that Marathon would work amazingly in an extraction shooter. The Marathon games told their story through it's enviroment which works really well with extraction shooter, think Escape from Tarkov. Like imagine if we entered the playable area and we did our missions which would tell us one story but then theres also hidden terminals throughout the map that told us another/more of the story. That would be sick. I know the art style is a big departure but its also a different take on the universe and maybe if it's successful enough, there could be new single player Marathons and maybe even a remake. Lastly the monitization, I really hope that since they're with Sony, that maybe they'll take some notes from Helldivers where yeah there's microtransactions, but hopefully they wont feel forced/overwelming. Like if there was an option to speed up gaining new cosmetics without it taking super long would be nice and they would still be able to lots of money. This all is if Bungie's writers can create a cohesive story that holds us into the game for years to come that also fits with the narrative theme's of the originals.
@@overinkedcereal3676 I don't disagree with you, you could take the marathon universe and make a compelling extraction shooter. Bungie at least will know how to make the game mechanically fun. I also look forward to whatever cinematics they come up with. As opposed to this as I am chances are I will play it with my little brother to relive some of the nostalgia of at least being in that universe again maybe for like a couple of nights or something. All that being said it's just fundamentally not a genre I'm even interested in. The terminals from back then were because they didn't have the resources or technology to tell the story they wanted to, it would be cute if they re-introduce them but also sort of insulting since we have the technology to tell the story properly now. I can't see the meta narrative of player apotheosis being translated into an extraction shooter and it working well. I grew up with Halo secretly wishing that Marathon would some day get the big AAA blockbuster treatment love that Halo was one day but now I have to live with this multiplayer only service game and now Halo sucks too so fuck me I guess. I appreciate the optimism but the continual downfall of Destiny coupled with Sony buying them and the lay offs only scream to me that this game will be a hollow shell that looks cool on the surface and probably plays well too, but it'll just be the same cash grab nonsense we've all seen a million times over. Sony bought them so they can have their live service slot machine, that's the only reason they got Bungie. They have their own in house studios to make the story driven single player stuff like Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch, Bungie is a purely monetary "battle pass" move. But hey who knows? I might be wrong. If they really find some way to actually tell the story through an unmissable multiplayer experience that is so fun even I can't put it down then I owe you a skin from whatever cash shop they come up with. In any case I am very excited to see how they're going to depict Durandal and who's going to voice him, at the very least that should be really cool.
@@ZeUberflipit really sucks that Bungie was acquired for monetization purposes but hopefully PlayStation sees the success with its story games and Helldivers 2 and hold back on the “battlepass” stuff. Then to the terminal things, I think the technical limitations forcing the use of terminals is part of Marathon’s identity. While I agree that cinematics would be cool and I’m sure they’ll happen, it would be cool if they used the terminals and cutscenes/gameplay story conflicted. Like imagine if the AI are lying to you again but through exploration of terminals, you can learn more about what is actually happening.
@@overinkedcereal3676 Here's hoping, if I get proved wrong then there's a new great game to play in an IP I am fond of so I can't really complain if that happens. The terminal idea is pretty cool. I just hope they don't use it as a crutch but working it in like an easter egg or implementing it the way you were saying would be pretty interesting.
gaming studios should be owned collectively by the people that work at them and not soulless rich ghouls that live at everyone's expense
I'm really hoping this is good.. I want bungie great again..
Back in the day, parents tried to get kids to stop playing video games because it causes violence. Now? I think I'll prevent my kids from playing video games because it is just gambling now.
Considering how studios like Insomniac and Kojima Productions are allowed to create games how they'd like to, and Bungie's pile of shit GM turned CEO's "don't overdeliver" mantra, coupled with his "we're not the type of company where execs take pay cuts to avoid layoffs", and "we no longer make games we want to play" ethos, coupled with Sony being sick of his shit already in canceled meetings etc... A Sony takeover at the top of Bungie would probably be a much better thing then what he have now.
Good. After the way they did Destiny 2, and pretty much self sabotaged their own game, I hope Marathon fails hard, and Bungie gets sold off piecemeal by Sony.
All they had to do was listen to the community , instead of the shareholders, develop Destiny 2, and be happy with making it the best game ever, (which indeed it was for a time).
But no, Bungie had to chase trends, and try and "innovate", and make their game something THEY wanted to play, instead of something the community wanted to play.
Now they're done, God willing. An hopefully the world will be a better place without their bullshit ass "live service" model, that the entire industry is realizing was a failure of an experiment. I hope in the end Bungie declares bankruptcy and is sold by Sony to Microsoft.
That will be the icing on the cake.
The live service model hasn't been an experiment in years, is a proven successful model, extremely so actually, why do you think every company wanted in? Live service *is* successful but only one or two games per genre make it and stays alive raking in all the money and due to sunk cost fallacy other ones end up dying as people do not transfer to new GaaS when they have invested in a previous game
Well Bungie is STILL hiring Marathon Devs as of this moment. Only a few but, still. The Final Shape looks to...shape things up, I think. ☺😉. All good...and bad, things have their moment of glory and will soon fade into...
And that's fine...
Something something.. Joe Blackburn leaving Bungie.. something.. this video.. fine wine.. something somewhere
I don’t know anything about gaming companies but I know bungie really went out their way to keep our servers up and running even when halo 3 was still up besides the company they give out hard earned gear away too ez to players barely starting the game during endgame just like they gave away recon helmet on halo 3 if anyone cared….
All I gotta say is where’s the next series for section: 8 prejudice
3:16 Aww
She's the best. ♥️
Foreshadowing 👀👀👀
Without monetization the game is going to make a billion dollars less. Maybe more! The model bungie is probably thinking about is Valorant. Business always try to emulate what's popular and Valorant has been consistently profitable. It matters less that both games are very different, that's a game designer problem to solve, businessmen will direct the game towards a proven monetization model. Someone will pay for that, afterall, free to pay models prey on neurodivergent people.
TBH Destiny fans are notoriously whiney. They've been complaining about the game like this since D1. There's nothing Bungie can do to please the Destiny fanbase.
They can listen to the fan base uhhh duuuh
who made those art illustration here at 15:20 ?
eerily looks like ai art
@@suspecm6316 exactly why i asked lol, had a hunch; guessing it is since OP hearted+replied most other comments today but ignored this one. sad
All these gaming studios seem to be learning about sacrificing short term gains for long term stability. People are tired of the poorly delivered live service content.
I left Destiny 2 years ago, once they began going away from what made that game appealing by inserting social justice garbage and forcing ideologies within the game it forced me and many in my clan split. At one point my clan : The Old School Gamerz had about 75 members. I could no longer stomach playing that game anymore after Bungies open comments to me on Twitter I was done. Bungie is completely tone deaf. They love an echo chamber and I would rather get on D1 to just reeber the real tone of the game but I don't. I'm sorry for the loss of jobs but it's Bungie's fault. I'm glad I'm completely done. I was pleased to see this video though. It was done really well.
Didnt watch the full video, but did you talk/know there video is botted? The first 6 hours of marathon video release (i watched it announced live on one of the game shows with less then 200k live watchers) so when i got on youtube and they somehow magically got 19 million view in less then 6 hours, whitch IS NUTS so i and everyone knew it was botted... when only 200k people and media only knew about it existence for less then a few hours... making it the MOST popular game ON EARTH
it didn't trend or even show on feeds. All the comments were deleted including my comments over the pass 7 months. Ive made 4 plus comments calling them out over different times including day 1
So at least there youtube is active...
In everyway, i would say this game is a scam or not even real. But the fact that its bungie and was on a live game event that i watch. I guess it is
Love bungie. Wish bungie would take halo back 😢
bungie il owned by Sony now. nothing to worry about
If they want money then they should toss the “PvP extraction shooter” in the bin and just remake marathon as marathon.
The studio has been "in danger of dying" 5 times. LOL. it is a multi billion dollar company with 1300 employees. Spare me the BS story and make a good story in the game.
This nobhead makes great videos!
this is literally every corporate job ever. i assume u surprised ppl have been living under a rock.
go woke go broke
This guy is blaming fans and studios for the corportization of the gaming industry when it's just market incentives. It's only going to get worse, not better. As the economy grows and bigger monopolies form, each studio will be milked dry for every dime they're worth. Of course fans are getting angry because they need to vent their frustration with constant monetization during an economic crisis.
Bungie isn’t collapsing…. What a terrible click bait title.
its bad
im 600 like
:)
One word: Unionize.
why do devs cry so much when laid off? go make an indie game bro. u signed up to work under a company. some people wake up everyday and work at an amazon factory. game devs work in a creative industry, not a vital industry, art people can be very entitled. know what youre signing up for when you go down a creative industry path, indie or under a company. pros and cons. too much whining