Bad Tropes, Great Books [CC]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- Links to books I talked about in this video
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Just Ella: amzn.to/308r7ht
The Lies of Locke Lamora: amzn.to/2B2t4Ug
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The Wheel of Time (First three books): amzn.to/3enyqXz
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Now make a tier list of your favorite tropes, and then a video of examples of your favorites done poorly.
Yes!
That sounds fun
That's a good idea
The obvious next step/chapter/edition... ;o)
omg yes!
Favorite chosen one: Aang.
From what I understand, a big reason why "chosen one" narratives fail is because the plot feels to be pulling the protagonist forward and inflating their importance. But as one of the singular themes of the show was choosing your own destiny, we get to see how other characters interpret and engage with that theme.
Consider Aang's past lives and the mistakes they made. They were all "chosen ones" but because they were all human beings they oftentimes treated their roles differently. But as Yangchen told Aang in the finale, it was up to him to accept his responsibility to protect the world even at the cost of his own principles.
Being the "Chosen One" was not an excuse to make characters follow the plot, but rather a vessel to explore how we all shape our fates and handle our responsibilities.
I also enjoyed how it was a duty and less of a set destiny or prophecy. There was no guarantee that they would win (it was a kid series but still), or that everyone would make it out.
The focus was less of Aang being the avatar and more of how he felt about it, how the world thought about him, and how his own beliefs and failings affected his ability to carry out his responsibilities.
I like Chosen One tropes (when done right) because they can capture what it is like to have your life planned out, or what it’s like to sacrifice your own wants for the people around you.
I agree with what you said about the whole plot thing. Avatar the Last Airbender used the avatar as just a part of the story instead of the entire story. For example, in the fortune teller episode, the fortune teller predicts Aang’s battle with the fire lord with lots of broken bone and fire, but Aang just wants to know if he marries Katara.
One more thing is how the existence of Avatar is a part of the world. Avatar is a public persona, and his actions are perceived through his function. In the end it is not "he is the only one that can beat firelord" (it is made quite clear that Iroh is perfectly capable of taking on Ozai during the comet, and while not guaranteed, still quite likely to win) but more "only if the Avatar beats the firelord political balance and peace can be restored" because avatar is as much an institution as (s)he is a chosen superpower lottery winner.
Lindsay Ellis said this in one of her videos but the best chosen one stories are the ones that either subvert the trope or ones that are very character driven and deal with both the highs, lows, and mundanities of being the “chosen one”. It’s one of the reasons why the two Avatar shows, Buffy, Star Wars, LOTR and Harry Potter succeed because they do both.
I think, Ironically, Roku would be the much better example of a "Chosen One" trope done well. He essentially, totally fails. He is what gives weight to Aang, since he's a bold declaration "This won't just work out on it's own! You have the power, but you still have to make the right choice"
@@ThrottleKitty My favorite episode is The Avatar and the Fire Lord. I don't know why exactly. His friendship with Sozin was just so Shakespearean and complex and the fact that their story was so neatly encapsulated in one episode told as flashbacks and journals is impressive.
Also, all Avatar fans need to watch on TH-cam "Escape from the Spirit World". Incredible insight to the Avatar as a concept.
The wizard of oz does the “all talk no action “ well , as the “great and terrible wizard of oz” who is hyped up throughout the novel is actually not powerful at all.
So a subversion is OK
I was about to mention Wizard of Oz regarding that trope as well! 😁 Also, Gilderoy Lockhart (and, in general, characters that like to present themselves waaaay better/stronger/powerful than they actually are)
Natasa Gajic OMG yes! Gilderoy is also a perfect example. I like it when their failure to live up to the hype actually serves as a feature to the plot.
I feel that's different since he's pretending to be something he's not, when this is about someone who is actually what people say but we just never see it. Same with Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter.
Tosh Omni it’s similar to how Merphy said Just Ella used the Insta-love trope .
A well done "resurrection": Gandalf. He actually came back as practically a different person, after a sufficiently long interval.
Yes! I came here to say this. The first time I read lotr as a fresh faced fantasy reader, I was so excited when Gandalf the White was revealed.
also winter soldier from marvel mcu. he became a pivotal plot point for films down the line.
Hey sorry havnt read LotR in a while. How was he a different person? From what i remember he seemed the same to me
@@Vauataf3346 First of all, he changed from grey to white. It is clear that in LOTR a wizard's color is a significant part of his identity, as "the [color]" is always part of his name in any but informal human or hobbit conversation. When Saruman switches from leadership of the order of wizards to an ally of Sauron, he changes from "Saruman the White" to "Saruman the Many Colored". Radagast is always "Radagast the Brown". On first meeting them after Moria, Gandalf wasn't entirely sure if he even knew the Hobbits; he had to struggle to even remember his old name.
Aslen was another good one.
“The Chosen one, I think the best way I’ve seen is...”
Me:Avatar the Last Airbender
“I think the best way to -”
“Avatar: The Last Airbender.”
“Uh, I was going to say to bake cookies.”
“Avatar: The Last Airbender.”
@@patrick_dy3r Lmao
It's not a book though :/
@@dylantd9189 It has a book though
Dylan T D the show is based on graphic novels
The only issue I have with Chosen One tropes is that it gave me unrealistic hopes growing up that I'd be approached by some magical unicorn who says that I am the one true hero to save the magical world... **impatient foot tap** I'm still waiting...
@Antônia L. Suarez yo, saame
Sigh... We can only wait
"Where have you ben? ...Where have you been? WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!?"
I think the "everyone survives" trope could be done well as a backstory/flashback actually. Say we get to know a band of characters and later on we're shown that they are together because they are the only survivors of a massive battle.
And I think "all talk, no action" could be an interesting premise for a smooth-talker type character. Someone who talks himself up but really has basically no other skills.
Probably not the best example of "all talk/no action” but it is one that I felt was used well enough in the story it was in. Mr. Satan, or Hercule, from Dragon Ball is a pompous and arrogant martial arts champion, but at the time he is introduced into the series there are already countless characters that outclass him in terms of strength and ability. However, he remains one the most charismatic characters in the series, and has made use of his bluster and charm to assist the heroes in ways that they could not do themselves. He talks big game, can’t measure up to his peers in terms physical ability, but he has a kind heart and the wherewithal to use his charm for the good of others.
Your description of all talk no action reminded me of moist von lipwig from the discworld series!
Agreed. I think it could be done very well in a first-person narrative like that.
The “all talk, no action” description reminded me of reigan, from Mob Psycho 100, although Reigan actually has some skills, just not the ones he claims
I think another way the all talk no action could be used well if other characters have certain expectations and/or stereotypes of a character but then you meet the character and they aren't what people thought. Maybe the character knows people have high exceptions of them and they try to meet those expectations but it's difficult for them
Okay, SPOILER
The Chronicles of Narnia does talking animals and resurrection trope really well.
Yeah, but I think maybe that is because a lot of it is symbolism.
I mean it does really and I think you're right. I know a lot of people don't agree though. And more importantly, its also at fault for why both tropes are done so poorly lol.
It had a bit of a guide for the resurrection bit wink wink
You have to put Narnia in the spoiler warning or people don't know whether they care or not.
Because its just basically the bible but fantasy. XD Of course its done well!
But no, seriously, i love Narnia, but let's be real, author was extremely religious.
“D&D nerds, I see you!”
It’s nice to be appreciated 😊😉
Yes! Streams like Critical Role have brought the game back and its popularity is sky-rocketing!
Was not a OG fan but fell in love with the game when 5th edition was released!
@M-NJ B Some of us still use 2e... or play GURPS. ;o)
I will actually drink water if merphy doesn't talk abt lies of locke lamora
Edit: Not even 3 mins in 🤦🏻 ur responsible for my dehydration merph
My Atheistic prayers go out to you🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha omg
I recently read lies of locke lamora and I don't understand what the big deal is. I didn't think it was that terrific and it felt aimless for the first half of the book.
@@Turvok how .. dare you.... 😂 i guess its not for everyone personally it wasnt the plot that kept me hooked it was the characters. I really fell in love with them and their chemistry and the book genuinely made me laugh out loud... but i think the plot was pretty good too even tho a bit predictable i still loved it
Please drink water :)
"I'm happy with this body count." -Merphy 2020
This quote on this date could be massively misconstrued, which is one of the best qualities of an in-joke.
That made me laugh 😂
I'm happy with the body count in Avatar.
Was looking for this comment :D
You talking about the being told someone is a badass but they don't do anything "trope" made me think of a Gilderoy Lockhart type character, which honestly I think we need more of. A character that is known in the world to be this big badass who defeated a lot of evil/explored the whole world or something like that but is actually a huge fraud. That's such an interesting character type and I wish there was more of those characters in fiction instead of what you were talking about. The only character I can think of like that is Lockhart from Harry Potter and I think it's a shame there aren't more.
I'm guessing that character still does many things in the story? But she's talking about a character that thinks about what they could do in a particular situation and then proceeds to do nothing.
Nah Mean oh I know. I’m just saying that reminded me of something else that I would actually like to see more of in books.
@@lenaertsjelke
Yeah, I completely misread the beginning of your comment. ☺️
@@JA-iu3eq Well Mob Psycho 100 was a manga before being adapted into an anime, so I think it counts as a book! But then again, I tend to classify comics as books as well
wizard of oz?
I liked how the Chosen One trope was done in Mistborn era 1.
I kinda forget that it has a Chosen One Trope lol, its like the last thing I think about when I explain Mistborn and gush about it lol
That’s my personal favorite portrayal of the trope!
Best subversion of the prophecy trope I've ever seen too.
YAAS it was amazingly executed haha
Dragons may be too complex to fairly label as simply “animal,” but I think Smaug from The Hobbit is a great example of an effective and compelling talking creature.
For the second trope with that making stupid mistakes I think Anne of Green Gables did that in such a fun quirky way. Although Anne’s mistakes weren’t always just bad decision making for me I would put Anne in that category ❤️
Have you watched Anne with an E? If so, how does it compare to the books?
@Francisco Vargas it’s very different in some ways but it keeps many of the classic scenes and issues(slate smacking, hair dye, wine incident, etc.). It’s a great retelling of the book, though, because it goes into really deep topic so it’s less of a fun care-free romance about a young girl growing up but it’s more a story of a girl growing up and is relevant to today’s topics that most shows don’t touch upon. Its starts out with focusing on Anne’s PTSD from living in Mrs. Hammonds abusive household and the orphanage. And in the show her eccentricity is a bit more extreme so that easily makes her a victim for bullies. It’s one of my favorite shows and you should really check it out!
@@taylor_green_9 I haven't read the books but have series so if you haven't watched it i definitely recommend it because it is really good ( and it does match with that second trope in a good way)😊
I actually have watched the show. I was just wondering if I should read the books because I know it's a long book series
Francisco Vargas the series is really good, but it’s a lot less progressive than the show. There are no poc or lgbt characters in the books, and no feminist themes, unlike in the show.
I don’t really like animal books either, but I LOVE The Little Prince. It’s such a sweet, sad story that I hope you try at some point!
OMG yes!
It's very short and lovely, I hope she picks it up!
William Soto yessss
My fav childhood book!
It was an obligatory read for me in French class (I'm Belgian, French is my second language, it's obligated here), I loved it ever since. My teacher read it to us. With voices. French was never my favorite lesson (I'm more of a science geek), but I loved that teacher!
animal farm
"Everyone Makes It Out Alive" Trope
SPOILERS
LORD OF THE RINGS has a surprisingly low death-toll for being such an epic war story, with eight of the nine members of the fellowship surviving. I think it works though as the book is more about the psychological effect of war.
Exactly my thoughts ^^
They also d’ont completely win
imagine being the 1/9 that just dies before the final battle is near, what an L to take.
Though the other 8 don't make it out totally unscathed, Frodo can't take living in his life long home anymore, Gandalf died and lost a ton of his memories as Gandalf the Grey and taking on a new identity, Aragorn held his newfound 'brother' and sent him off to the afterlife which i can imagine is quite traumatic.
My least favourite trope of all time is, "I love you so much, If you dont choose me, I'll die." or, "if you die, I would kill myself." Like NO. Just NO. Nothing is worth committing suicide. If you really love someone, you would continue to live so that you could honor their memory.
YESS
I wouldn’t say that that’s a trope. Some people actually feel that way in real life. So many people would be willing to take a bullet for their spouse, child, or friend of it means that that person can live.
Yeah, that's annoying.
@@benparrish6157 But being willing to take a bullet for someone is different than 'I would kill for you'/'I would kill myself without you.' These are very unhealthy attachments. Being willing to take a bullet for someone is about protecting them.
I agree that they’re bad tropes, but (and correct me if I’m wrong) but I feel like those are two different things.
The first one (“I would die for you”) is a very unhealthy obsession disguised as devotion, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they would commit suicide or abuse their partner. It’s still very toxic, but I wouldn’t say it’s on the same level as the other one, which is just straight up abuse and downright evil.
I loved Jason Todd' resurection in DC comics. I really really loved how they handled it because him being alive again didn't actually mean everything was all sunshine and rainbows.
I enjoyed Watership Down as a kid, about societies of talking rabbits (though they only talk to eachother)
Watership Down is fantastic! I never knew I could be so invested and interested in rabbit society. And it definitely wouldn’t be part of that trope because it’s all rabbits.
The best thing about Watership Down is that they are actually rabbits, and not just people in rabbit suits so to speak. So many talking animal books have the chatachters that if you replaced them with humans nothing would really change. It may be intentional allegory (Animal Farm anyone) but more often than not it is because author simply lacks imagination to condider how they would be different.
I am still traumatised from seeing the movie as a child. Bright Eyes, it’s always going to be too soon.
@@pinkhornet8737 "Burning like fire! Bright Eyes! How can you close and fail? How can the light that burned so brightly, suddenly burn so pale? Bright eyes.
That movie is definitely in my top five western animated movies of all time. Seeing it at sixteen, it still scares the shit out of me
I feel like Percy Jackson did "the chosen one" well. Instead of making the character above everyone else that character is still very relatable and all the other characters roles aren't belittled. I feel like Mr. Riordan's books are overall very good and they really hit it out of the park with relatable heros.
Adeline Kropf
Percy is too perfect tho. He just grabs everything and is good at everything.
I disagree, he gets too puffy and ends up thinking everything is about him. However, I love Riordans’ stuff too, and that’s just my opinion :)
I like PJ and HoO but I think Harry Potter is a better chosen one than Percy...apart from being the only one who can kill Voldemort (cause reasons) Harry is kind of terrible at everything besides flying, if it werent for Hermione, Dumbledore, Sirius, Snape...etc to guide this boy he would have died in the first book XD
What makes him a great chosen one is that he didn't want that at all, he had no choice from start and was very oblivious to how much cherished (and under presure) he was in the wizarding world. He was an important pawn in Dumbledore's ultimate move on his "game" to defeat Voldemort.
@@Unknown-uk9he I feel like he is just good at sword play and he is powerful immediately but I also think he is oblivious and Annabeth has to help him with a lot. So I guess I kind of agree but kinda disagree if that makes any sense.
Luiz Guilherme B.S. and also the fact that the prophecy wasn’t specifically about him (Harry Potter) adds a whole other layer
Fine.... FINE! I'll read Lies of Locke Lamora.... Happy now? :P
Indeed I am :)
I actually bought the Lies of Locke Lamora because Merphy wouldn't shut up about it. Scott Lynch needs to pay her as his publicist.
B.K. Price same!
@@BKPrice lol
i've always enjoyed how the Chosen One trope is done in my own life... as a Chosen One i don't find out until much later in life, toward my middle years, that I'm the savior of the world... the trope is done very well... unfortunately, part of the trope is no one around me believes that I'm the Chosen One, not even my cats...
lowkey thought this was written by jesus for a sec
I don't wanna rush you but do you really have time for youtube?
@@Andromeda-mz1qk 😂😂😂
I was expecting “Animal Farm” to be here 🤡🤡
ooo that would have been a good one!
Merphy Napier I can’t believe you answered me 😮
Yeah, been wondering if the "talking animals" would include fables... or cartoon mices :)
Merphy: " love triangles done right"
Me: wait... Jane Austin? looks over on the shelf...
Me: YES!
Same!! I was like wait whAT and then I remembered and yup there it was 😂😂😂
"Insta-love" often comes across as just "Insta-lust".
Instant love was just always a shorthand in fiction, I never really minded it because it gives more time for drama outside of the romance. Plus, who doesn't want to see a couple against the world? But the relationship trope I CANNOT STAND is when people don't just settle their problems like actual human beings and talking. (miscommunication trope I'm looking at you D-:
Sometimes people do just hate each other for no reason, though. Sometimes the dislike is irrational, or at least not articulable, and there isn't really a problem that can be solved by talking it out - sometimes the best you can do is, "We are never going to be friends, but we don't have to like each other to work together." (I've had some very productive working relationships that ran along this line. It's not necessary to _like_ someone to respect them, even _value_ them.)
Regarding the “all talk no action” trope, I actually think it was well done in Harry Potter, when everyone is constantly praising James but we then see he was actually a bully (at least until he grew up). I think it shows how his friends saw him as a good guy and disregarded his bully side. I’d say this actually serves the purpose of showing us how unreliable/biased characters like Sirius were. Not that they were bad or anything, but their loyalty to James blinded them to his actions, either because they also partook in them (Sirius) or were charmed by him (Lily), and it isn’t until we see other people’s point of view (Snape’s) that we realise James wasn’t always the nice guy we were being told throughout the books. Maybe this doesn’t count as “all talk no action” but I interpreted it as such since we’re constantly being told how good of a person James was but we rarely see it, and in fact, we often see his darker side.
Potential spoiler for Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Favorite chosen one: Buffy
Especially since the show drove the point that these girls that become the slayer all want to die because of how lonely and isolating the 'chosen one' title is, and that it's her friends and family that keep her going everyday.
It also did the resurrection trope in a way I've never seen done before, one of the best subversion of that trope that I've seen.
Edit: Also Gandalf, how could I forget!
Resurrection done well: Voldemort and maybe Sauron 😂 I count these as resurrections of sorts, though I know it's not really what you mean when you talk about the resurrection trope!
Rebecca Inman Gandalf and Syl
I didn't really like Gandalf's resurrection. I didn't hate it and was happy to have him back, but I also was annoyed about the resurrection thing.
Oooh, Voldemort's resurrection is definitely a resurrection trope done well, imo
Voldemorte you know is coming back as soon as you find out about him, so it's not really playing fast and loose with the readers emotions. Kind of the same with Sauron. Is that what was done well?
@@MagusMarquillin yeah they're not really resurrections in the typical sense, it's more them slowly coming back to power/regaining a physical body. With Gandalf it's done well because he has to be sent back to defeat the dark lord (all that wizard lore), but there is still some emotion as Frodo and Sam don't know that Gandalf is alive until the end.
14:22
I think the all talk no action can be written well if the story was told by a narrator who romanticized the main character and it was done to show how different the main character is from the narrator’s perspective.
I would imagine this could be done really well with a multi-POV, unreliable narrator who thinks they’re all that, but never acts on it vs how the rest of the world sees them.
"It's called just - EEAGH!!"
Nailed it.
I think Harry Potter actually did the Chosen One trope very well. Bc the Chosen One was only Chosen bc the villain chose them by acting on a prophesy. It wasnt his destiny or anything, just the stupid actions of the villain. It was different and I actually really enjoyed it
The origin of chosen one was good, but its execution was bad. Literally very generic. Throughout the story, its handled in thr most generic way. Harry was given alot of plot armour and thr plot was driving harry to kill Voldemort
Three minutes in I realised Merphy is the first and only TH-camr I’ve ever put post notifications on for and then actually jumped and gotten really excited to see she’s posted☺️
How many years have I religiously watched TH-cam for this to happen-
I love Merphy too, but there's one more channel that makes me feel that way: Overly Sarcastic Productions. Have you seen them?
@@taylor_green_9 yes! Both
Hey! I really think it would be awesome if you will talk someday about the opposite of these tropes. For example for the instant love trope you can talk about a well built relationship over time or for the ressurection trope you can talk about some satisfying deaths.
P.S. : I know it can't be done for every trope but neither in this video it wasn't an example for every trope.
I really love your videos and never missed one since I subscribed! :))
new drinking game: make a playlist of Merphy's non-reading vlog videos and chug your entire drink every time: 1 - she heavily recommends Locke Lamorra or talks about the main friendship, 2 - goes on a rant about lack of penalty of war, 3 - has an emotional moment about Fredrik Backman. You're welcome :)
please dont. I care about your safety
@@merphynapier42 Don't worry, there are worse drinking games out there. Also I would just use coffee :P
Ok am i the only one who didnt think the flashbacks in lies of locke lamora were jarring? I thought they was pretty easy to follow and made the story so much more interesting
I was gripped much more in that writing format!!! It was masterfully done!!!!
I loved them, especially because later in the book, you could see the relevance of the flash backs, and there was an explanation to why the characters acted as they did or were a certain way. Or even later - why they use certain tricks to solve a problem (looking at you Locke). I thought it was genius.
It took some time to get used to, but I grew to like it too.
I found them jarring. In some cases flashbacks work well but they were annoying in LoLL
I liked them too, especially when things that happened in the flashbacks had modern day relevance . Took me longer than normal to get into it as I was reading one chapter at a time at the start, but I honestly don't think chronological chapters could have told this story as well!
You dropping that book was hilarious. I’m glad you kept it in there.
Oh the Austen exception, can't agree more! Although I love how the love triangle (or rather quadrangle) is done in Mansfield Park and there I can understand that maybe not everyone expect Fanny to end up with who she ends up with - but with the other Austen novels (and for me also in MP) it was never a question. Yes, the romance is captivating and other potential love interests are layered too, but who the heroine will chose - I never had doubts about.
Gandalf was a nice resurrection to me, but I can't deny that this could be because it was my introduction to resurrections. Lady Stoneheart also comes to mind. In both instances the resurrected have changed soo much that they are not the same person anymore and are not really aware of their change.
Yeah, I like Martin's take on resurrection and how it's not the same for everyone. I also think he did death fake-out nicely because it made sense in the story.
Gandalf and Aslan's were done well because of the Christian faith angle Tolkien and Lewis imbued them with. You feel as if both were earned because of how they both were reflecting their inspiration in the real world for both authors.
My introduction to resurrections was Jesus Christ from the Bible. 😂
Yes, but you can only have one! I was never more excited then when Frodo was killed by the spider and Sam was going to have to pick up the ring and finish the thing by himself - I was finally getting why everyone was so into these LOTR books.
I actually don't mind both resurrection and everyone surviving. I can totally understand why you don't but for me it's win-win: I get the feeling of danger or even the loss without having to actually lose my favourite characters 😅 but I can see how sometimes it's also crucial for the narrative or character development to follow through on the deaths.
An example of resurrection done well is imho actually in a movie... (this is not a spoiler because it's in the trailers and all) Captain America:Winter Soldier has Bucky coming back and it makes total sense and is very important to the narrative. In fact the entire plot wouldn't work the way it does had he not "died" first.
I loved the talking animals in Chronicles of Narnia! I finally read the seventh book after years of putting it off, and it was the perfect finale. I really loves the series and the talking animals brought so much! From Aslan to Reepicheep, or the badgers or Jewel, I loved all the talking animals!
I actually didn't like the last book that much but I think it was mainly because how the author left out Susan
The only time I like fake out deaths is if the character has to pretend to be dead for some reason to go into hiding but it has to be a good reason. Like in avatar the last airbender when people think aang is dead it wasn't really that the characters thought he was dead. He was just severely injured. But letting the people around him think that helped them.
Merphy: *acknowledges D&D nerds*
Me: *screams in joy*
In all honesty it's nice to see more random people acknowledging D&D, it feels niiiiice.
For chosen one, I think the Percy Jackson series does this very well. In the second book, the main character is introduced to a great prophecy about a chosen one that seems to be about him, but then multiple other characters are introduced over the series who fit the criteria for the chosen one as well, and the main character is relieved that the prophecy may not be about him.
I really love the flashbacks in the manga One Piece. They're often really emotional and have clearly influenced the story or character's personality and outlook on life in the present, they aren't sad flashbacks just for the sake of being sad flashbacks.
I really recommend reading One Piece, it's the best selling manga of all time and literally my favourite thing ever.
3nu!
That’s how flashbacks *should* be used
I watched the anime haven’t read the manga because the series is so long but I cried. The first flashback about Lufy’s hat was done good. Especially in later one when lufys like you pulled out your weapon but are you preferred to use it. Not to mention the author( don’t read much manga sorry) said the one piece isn’t going to be bs like friendship
Merphy, what about Eragon for talking animals? I didn't love Eragon as much as you did but I did like it and Saphira I thought was really good!
I agree, it was very well done in Eragon
*Spoilers for LotR and Narnia*
I love how Lord of the Rings does the Chosen One, Resurrection/fake out death, and everyone makes it out alive. I love how Narnia does the Resurrection, chosen one(s), and talking animals. Or maybe I just love them so much that I ignore the flaws in said tropes, but either way the tropes in those books never bother me:)
Poor Boromir :'(
But to be fair in LotR there still was price to pay for winning the war.
His Dark Materials is one of the few book series where I'm ok that the animals talk, because in all actuality they aren't truly animals. It's almost like clever inner dialogue, and the daemons are just as much characters as their human counterparts.
I feel like The Infernal Devices by Cassandra Claire did love triangles really well because we root for all of them and they aren’t fighting for love so much as rooting the other on even though they want it too, you know?
Your scream when you dropped the first book actually slayed me.
I’m a bit behind on this one, but for the tripe of a woman being raped, I have one book.
Deerskin by Robin McKinley
Because her rape is basically the whole point of the book. It’s a retelling of an old fairytale that discussed the horrors of rape and how the victim was able to slowly heal from this traumatic event. Deerskin made me cry literally from cover to cover because of how reverent and careful it was with the subject. The rape was *never* portrayed as a good thing, or “character-building”, so maybe it doesn’t really count? The main character was instead trying to find herself again. It was really beautiful, and more people should read this book.
I actually love flashbacks, and tend to use them a lot in my own writing. I think one of the best uses of them, though not in a book, was in the episode of Firefly called Out of Gas. They show you three different time periods in quick succession to tell you not only how what is presently happening came about, but also gives the origins of how the cast came together. Such a brilliant use of flashbacks.
My mom got me Just Ella for my birthday years ago and I fell in LOVE. I actually just talked about it in my "Top 5 Fairytale Retellings" list!!! Such a good book 😁❤️😍
I'm starting to turn your Locke Lamora mentions into a drinking game LOL :P
Resurrection (not really a spoiler because it's so well known): Lord of the Rings
And talking animals: Narnia!!
You are literally the first person I've heard praise the resurrection in Lord of the Rings.
ATLA is also a great exploration of a chosen one!
I just finished Letters to the lost today (started this morning, finished early afternoon) ... I'm still recovering.
Wait until you read More Than We Can Tell. It's Rev's story, and omg, I think it's even better than Letters.
@@kateworkman921 It's not translated in Dutch (so not in my library), I'll have to put that on a Christmas gift list then...! (don't mind reading the English version, but I'm sure I can't convince my library to buy it for me, like I can do with Dutch books!)
I gasped when you pulled out just Ella re-read last summer and honestly no one ever talks about it but I've always loved it so much
I think a great example of the "telling not showing" trope done well is The Great Gatsby. Nick is constantly telling us things about people, himself included, without any real proof/showing. This further pushes the narrative of him being an unreliable story teller.
Months later, but adding to the talking animal trope: Vin's wolfhound in the Mistborn books. I am not sure if this counts for the trope, but I thought it was absolutely adorable that he kept the Dog's body for always and forever because he loved Vin so much.
I listened to the audiobook for The Lies of Locke Lamora and it was so entertaining. One of the best audiobooks i’ve heard.
You dropping your book in the middle of the video was the cutest thing I’ve ever seen you do
"everyone made it out alive" mmm does Lord of the Rings count (not including poor Boromir)?
I mean on that entire journey only one of the Fellowship dies.
SPOILER WARNING FOR RANDOM BOOKS BELOW: My take on these tropes done well:
Love at first sight: Cinder (another Cinderella retelling and they did have some other meetings before the ball but they fell for each other real fast)
Talking animals: Land of Stories
Chosen One: Harry Potter and Percy Jackson, kinda obvious but those were good books
Love Triangle: The Selection (i mean it was obvious but i still liked it)
Resurrection: Lord of the Rings
Everyone still alive at the end: Heroes of Olympus (not one of the 7 was dead at the end of the last book)
Miscommunication: Anne of Green Gables
Cheating: The Selection (yeah sorry i used it twice)
Flashbacks: idk i haven’t really read a book with well written flashback scenes yet
Woman growing in character because of rape: none, i’ve only read one series where this happened and it wasn’t done well.
Talking animals: Animal Farm. An alternative to the Russian Revolution that takes place in a farm. Excellent story
i think more ppl need to read this book with the right lens because i see way too many ppl reading it as a critique of communism
For the talking animals: His Dark Materials
For the cheating: Anna Karenina (although it's not justifying it, it's still extremely interesting because divorce was actual tabu during that time.) (also, if you want to be 'are you f***ing kidding me' with that trope, try Lady Chatterley's Lover)
The love triangle: Gone with the wind (Scarlett is the deluded one in the triangle, not Rhett or Ashley)
The chosen one: DUNE
About the first book. Every attempt to make a bad trope a good one: We're gonna make a "subversion"...
Gosh darn it, Murphy. I've never wanted to read Wheel of Time but now you've really tempted me
If you still want some manga recommendations, try starting One Piece. It will always have more content (over 20 years worth), but the main problem is that it has a very slow start compared to most series and truly gets good after chapter 40. Be warned that once you're on the ride, it's hard to stop.
After watching the previous video, I watched this video only/primarily to see what example you'd give about the 'rape/character growth' trope and you didn't disappoint x
Please read Skulduggery Pleasant! I know you dont want too but even if you just try the first one I'll be happy, I really genuinely think you'll love it. Fun, funny and deeply emotional characters. Probably the best magic system I've seen in fiction, Derek Landy managed to have a hard magic system, but also incorporated some soft magic in a completely natural way that, at least for me makes sense but leaves you being like "What ELSE is possible" but the greatest part is the dynamic between the two main characters I really, really think you'll enjoy it. And if you dont enjoy it after book one I wont ask you to read any more🤣🤣🤣
It's the series I grew up and have nostalgia for, but it really genuinely is SOOOOOO much better than Harry Potter and I'm 99.99999999% sure you will agree with me, and if you do enjoy it itll be great to have other people join in in loving this story...
Between you and Daniel Greene my list of books to read has gone up dramatically...there are obvious books that I have yet to read (but should have), but there are ones I hadn't heard of before...thanks for the content!
Oh man, you started talking about love triangles, and I'm sitting there going, "but I love Jane Austen..."
...and then you mention the exception is Jane Austen. Whew!
I love it so much how in some of your books there are so many bookmarks (or memos?) which indicates how thoroughly you were reading it and how much thought you gave it :)
It would be a cold day in hell, when Merphy won't talk about Locke and Jean from Lies of locke lamora whenever the topic of *"friendship"* comes up.
I'm currently rereading Stormlight also. Im on that part of Words Of Radiance where Kaladin agonizes over doing right thing for way too long. I forgot how painful that was.
Oh I actually have one for "all talk, no action" except it's a TV show not a book. In Star Trek Deep Space Nine there's a background character called Morn, and all the other characters make constant references to how talkative and chatty Morn is... but we never see him say a single word on screen. It's just a funny running gag in the show
I think resurrection can work really well if it becomes a major arc to actually get the character resurrected or there is at least a great and meaningful cost to the resurrection. I think what makes it a bad trope is when the cost is so low that it cheapens the death in the first place.
I like "talking animals" in one book: Well of Ascension/Hero of Ages. Idk if that counts though. I'll defenitely check out Aeronauts though!
Coraline's talking cat was amazing. I loved him.
So I would ask a question on the whole "Hating talking animals" trope. What about Redwall?
When she pulled out the wheel of time book a dropped the pensil I was holding. I LOVE that series SOOOOOOO much, I wasn't expecting her to even have heard of it.
Talking animals: His Dark Materials. The full-cast audiobooks narrated by the author are how I get through periods of illness and/or how I spend rainy narrowboat holidays. I discovered them when I was chronically ill (that seems to be over now, touch wood) and couldn't physically hold a book, and I still listen to them at least once a year.
I second this! It was the first one I thought of when she said that trope!
I love this series so much and the fact they cut this down from the movie greatly upsets me.
@@hermiona1147 check out the new HBO series if you haven't already :)
Yes!
I’m curious now: did the talking animals thing you have mess with your appreciation for TenSoon’s character at all in Mistborn?
YES! Been really excited about this vid since you pitched it
I would really love to hear your take on the “Red Rising” series by Pierce Brown
There is a way to do “all talk, no show” well, but it’s not how you’d think
When you tell the reader that this character is so strong, but never show it, it makes the character feel fake
So telling the reader about someone but then never showing those things makes the reader think that maybe this character isn’t what everyone thinks they are or maybe they aren’t as strong as we thought
It’s a good device to use if you know how to.
"I'm happy with this body count"
I do not know, what I like in your videos or why. But I like it. Please keep it up!
Speaking about talking animals...
Have you considered reading the "His Dark Materials" trilogy?
I just finished listening to that series!🙃
not yet!
@@merphynapier42 I guess we'll have to wait a little longer then haha
OreSeur was adorable in The Well of Ascension ☺️
In the romance genre, when you can clearly see that the relationship is unequal, like one partner is always a doormat to their love interest. For example, the LI is always teasing that they’ll cheat on their partner, or they constantly regret the relationship and that leads to the main character begging them to come back. It just looks so degrading
For Chosen One, Honestly , I prefer Sword of Truth over Wheel of time even if it does feel inspired by Wheel of Time at parts. Richard is just great, the supporting cast like Nikki, The Mother confessor , The Mord Sith, His mentor, all of it. The magic system, the last three books put out way later that wrap up the wrap up. It's just is great series. If you want some great interactions that will bring tears, the story of the Mord Siths and all that happens to them and their interactions later in the series without spoilers is still one of the most painful and tear jerking interactions and relationships that I've ever read.
Yes
I admit I watch this after a minute of it being up
Am I ashamed?
Absolutely not
A story I adore is Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation/Modaozushi/The Untamed. It’s a Web Novel that also has a Donghua (Chinese Anime), Manhua (Chinese Manga), live action adaptation and audio stories. It’s a Chinese historical fantasy about clans with spiritual powers going to war and the protagonist turns to the dark side, he’s killed and 13 years later resurrected. Then there is a plot happening in the present as well with political intrigue, mystery, and romance with his formerly stuck up counterpart from another clan - who apparently fell in love with him back then at first sight but didn’t know how to interact with people. There is another character that has two kind of fake out deaths but not really, and they were there for very good reasons with great explanations behind them.
The flashbacks are so interesting to read and really make you understand the characters and care for them and their relationships on a deeper level
My favorite insta love story is in the Welcome to Night Vale Podcast, especially in the first season. The protagonist ist a radio host and his descriptions of his future boyfriend and his own attempts to get close to him are just hilarious.
One Piece has an interesting take on the chosen one trope, where Luffy isn’t doing things because of a prophecy but because he is just the type of person who would do this and he wants to. He doesn’t care about prophecies or fate, but just his own journey. That just so happens to make him a chosen one in a way.
One funny instance of hyping a person up the whole time is in Bleach. There is a healer, who everybody is afraid of, but only the oldest generation knows why.
Spoiler!
At the end it turns out she was once a berserker fighter who reveled in killing her challengers in bloody, dream out duels.
Good to have Happy Merphy over Moody Merphy XD
I think my favourite use of the talking animals trope is in the chaos walking trilogy, because how much the animal can talk is based on the intelligence of the species and each animal only has like two or three words they know how to say
Ahhh! The Aeronauts Windlass was exactly what I was thinking about with a great talking animal!
I have found that many people don't like that one. Not sure if it's because it doesn't fit into Jim's other series but, loved it and hope he does another.