This is one of your best videos, really well articulated. I agree with most of the points, that each of them may be a turn off for some people, but for many people those are the things that they love about it. I have seen different people love and hate the same thing about Malazan. So no one can know for sure until they read it. Everyone's experience, and everyone's takeaway are different.
Ya. Those hurdles were what ended up making the journey worthwhile, in a lot of ways. But I get why people would see them just as hinderences to their enjoyment.
I found your channel when I was going through Toll the Hounds at the same time as you. These books mentally drain me to where I can’t read the next one for a few weeks or months. It was 10 months between Reaper’s Gale and Toll the Hounds. Lol But your discussions are super good! I really enjoy your breakdowns of all the scenes.
“Slapping your hand away” 😂😂😂 It’s the Dunning-Krüger Effect. He likes to make you feel new to the world again and again. Although there are times that when he wants you to know things, he will tell the story in a deliberately easier to understand language. Then he would switch back to enigmatic style just as you think you’re already getting it.
My first read of the series started around the time the 10th and last book was published. Looking for a completed fantasy series comparable to LOTR and ASOIAF in depth, genre and prose. It was the first I’d learned of Malazan’s existence and related online content was sparse. Yes, it took some time and effort before the hooks completely sunk in. Whether the author’s intention or not, those moments of introspection and world building put me in a sympathetic frame of mind with the character(s). I was travelling to the next point in my quest or marching to the next battle. Not knowing everything and lots of time to think. These are my favorite books of any genre.
Wow 44 and 66 f words in the last 2 books??? I knew it escalated after nothing the first 4 books, but I didn’t realize the end increased THAT much. That’s kinda crazy. It would never bother me, and although I know it bothers some people and that’s fine, I do think people interested in “grimdark” fantasy are unlikely to be bothered. Still worth noting tho 😁 Overall I generally agree with your points! I appreciate your nuanced take on the complexity - people tend to overstate it or understate it and honestly both of those takes grind my gears. Your medium take on this is accurate, to me
Ya. I just was curious by the increased prevalence and thought the gradual incline was sorta funny. As far as the complexity, I think people are just not great and conveying that even though the books are dense with a lot of details and depth that forces you to pay extra attention, people sometimes used that in a condescending way. To me though, the brilliance of Erikson hasn't been that he can tie 100s of characters together in complex ways, but it is how well these different pieces fit to really say what he is trying to say. Some people might use one character, like Pinnochio, to tell something truly deeper than the surface, Erikson has managed to do that with an Epic Fantasy. But again, it is actually in his ideas of theme and character than it is about the complexity in and of itself. Anybody could make a complex mess with 1000 characters and that won't make it brilliant. But he does it so well.
@@DanExploresBooks yeah the condescension is a real issue. So I always appreciate a good counterpoint And yeah good point about the specific way the complexity works! Definitely a good manifestation of Erikson’s genius
I like Brandon Sanderson's style a lot too. A difference I would say is that Steven Erikson goes bigger with his character lists and where Sanderson will often begin with the main characters in their lowly state, Erikson will sometimes skim past what is often used as Act 1 and start his characters further along. Doesn't mean they don't have arcs, but that their arc starts with them already in the military, or already in the midst of things. Might have not made tons of sense how I wrote it here. I would say that both authors do right by their characters in the end.
Good question. It isn't that the cursing would be seen as worse than graphic violence or sexual assault. Don't think I said that. The violence and sexual assault was also mentioned. However, as far as the story being put together I usually see violence and assaults AS plotpoints in the story. It is what things are about. For the cursing though, for me it just doesn't add to the story and generally could be toned down so that a wider audience would be able to enjoy it. Might not totally make sense. Just a taste preference that in my opinion doesn't usually add to the book. I don't think all art is for everybody and people are free to do what they want though. I like when writers try to not go overboard with it, but that is just my own tastes. Same as overly sexual descriptions turn off a lot of people from things like watching Game of Thrones and stuff. Totally get that that a part of what people would like about it but it does stop a chunk of people who might like it from getting to it. Just roadblocks I think are worth mentioning.
I remember reading the first book with profanity when it was published and being mildly shocked by fuck - not because I care about it overly much but because it is so out of universe. Hoods breath, etc was the norm to that point and imo it suffered as a result. I think a better middle ground would have been finding a less modern word, fuck is so 1980s action movie. Rereading gardens after finishing crippled god last week there are other jarring aspects.
I think so too. It does take me out of it a bit at this point when it happens because it wasn't there for the first books. But thats Steve's choice to make.
This is one of your best videos, really well articulated. I agree with most of the points, that each of them may be a turn off for some people, but for many people those are the things that they love about it. I have seen different people love and hate the same thing about Malazan. So no one can know for sure until they read it. Everyone's experience, and everyone's takeaway are different.
Ya. Those hurdles were what ended up making the journey worthwhile, in a lot of ways. But I get why people would see them just as hinderences to their enjoyment.
🔥🔥🔥
Had a feeling you’d like this video as much as I did 😄
I found your channel when I was going through Toll the Hounds at the same time as you. These books mentally drain me to where I can’t read the next one for a few weeks or months. It was 10 months between Reaper’s Gale and Toll the Hounds. Lol
But your discussions are super good! I really enjoy your breakdowns of all the scenes.
Thats always good to hear. If I wasn't doing the videos, I bet there would be bigger breaks between the books for me too.
“Slapping your hand away” 😂😂😂
It’s the Dunning-Krüger Effect. He likes to make you feel new to the world again and again. Although there are times that when he wants you to know things, he will tell the story in a deliberately easier to understand language. Then he would switch back to enigmatic style just as you think you’re already getting it.
I never knew that term. Nice.
Fantastic summary, very much enjoyed your journey. I reread them recently, even better 2nd time round
Awesome. I can't wait to do my second read and enjoy seeing people's Malazan content as one who has finished the main series.
My first read of the series started around the time the 10th and last book was published. Looking for a completed fantasy series comparable to LOTR and ASOIAF in depth, genre and prose. It was the first I’d learned of Malazan’s existence and related online content was sparse. Yes, it took some time and effort before the hooks completely sunk in.
Whether the author’s intention or not, those moments of introspection and world building put me in a sympathetic frame of mind with the character(s). I was travelling to the next point in my quest or marching to the next battle. Not knowing everything and lots of time to think.
These are my favorite books of any genre.
Agreed on all this.
Wow 44 and 66 f words in the last 2 books??? I knew it escalated after nothing the first 4 books, but I didn’t realize the end increased THAT much. That’s kinda crazy. It would never bother me, and although I know it bothers some people and that’s fine, I do think people interested in “grimdark” fantasy are unlikely to be bothered. Still worth noting tho 😁
Overall I generally agree with your points! I appreciate your nuanced take on the complexity - people tend to overstate it or understate it and honestly both of those takes grind my gears. Your medium take on this is accurate, to me
Ya. I just was curious by the increased prevalence and thought the gradual incline was sorta funny.
As far as the complexity, I think people are just not great and conveying that even though the books are dense with a lot of details and depth that forces you to pay extra attention, people sometimes used that in a condescending way. To me though, the brilliance of Erikson hasn't been that he can tie 100s of characters together in complex ways, but it is how well these different pieces fit to really say what he is trying to say. Some people might use one character, like Pinnochio, to tell something truly deeper than the surface, Erikson has managed to do that with an Epic Fantasy. But again, it is actually in his ideas of theme and character than it is about the complexity in and of itself. Anybody could make a complex mess with 1000 characters and that won't make it brilliant. But he does it so well.
@@DanExploresBooks yeah the condescension is a real issue. So I always appreciate a good counterpoint
And yeah good point about the specific way the complexity works! Definitely a good manifestation of Erikson’s genius
I never read it, but it seems like the opposite extreme of Brandon Sanderson's style. Every style caters to different readers.
I like Brandon Sanderson's style a lot too. A difference I would say is that Steven Erikson goes bigger with his character lists and where Sanderson will often begin with the main characters in their lowly state, Erikson will sometimes skim past what is often used as Act 1 and start his characters further along. Doesn't mean they don't have arcs, but that their arc starts with them already in the military, or already in the midst of things. Might have not made tons of sense how I wrote it here. I would say that both authors do right by their characters in the end.
No judgements, just confusion. Why would anyone be turned off by cursing but not graphic violence and sexual assault?
Good question. It isn't that the cursing would be seen as worse than graphic violence or sexual assault. Don't think I said that. The violence and sexual assault was also mentioned.
However, as far as the story being put together I usually see violence and assaults AS plotpoints in the story. It is what things are about. For the cursing though, for me it just doesn't add to the story and generally could be toned down so that a wider audience would be able to enjoy it. Might not totally make sense. Just a taste preference that in my opinion doesn't usually add to the book. I don't think all art is for everybody and people are free to do what they want though. I like when writers try to not go overboard with it, but that is just my own tastes. Same as overly sexual descriptions turn off a lot of people from things like watching Game of Thrones and stuff. Totally get that that a part of what people would like about it but it does stop a chunk of people who might like it from getting to it.
Just roadblocks I think are worth mentioning.
I remember reading the first book with profanity when it was published and being mildly shocked by fuck - not because I care about it overly much but because it is so out of universe. Hoods breath, etc was the norm to that point and imo it suffered as a result. I think a better middle ground would have been finding a less modern word, fuck is so 1980s action movie.
Rereading gardens after finishing crippled god last week there are other jarring aspects.
I think so too. It does take me out of it a bit at this point when it happens because it wasn't there for the first books. But thats Steve's choice to make.