10 Amazing Atari Jaguar Facts
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2023
- In this video I look at ten tantalising titbits of trivia surrounding the 64-bit Atari Jaguar console.
Video Links:
Atari STe Console / Atari Painter - • The Story Of: 5 Cancel...
The Story of The Atari Jaguar 2 - • The Story of the Unrel...
The Story of The Atari Panther - • The Story Of The Unrel...
Atari Jaguar Pro Controller Review - • Atari Jaguar Pro Contr...
Atari Jaguar Console Review - • Atari Jaguar - Review ...
Atari Jaguar CD Review - • Atari Jaguar CD - Revi...
10 Amazing Atari Jaguar Exclusives - • 10 Amazing Atari Jagua...
10 Amazing Jaguar CD Exclusives - • 10 Amazing Atari Jagua...
Atari Jaguar VR Helmet - • A Quick Look At The At...
Please support my creative work on Patreon: / lairdslair
#atari #atarijaguar #retrogaming - เกม
My favorite bit of Jaguar trivia is the fact that the injection molds were eventually sold to a medical equipment company that used it to house their dental camera system. It's called the Hotrod and its made by Imagin
I thought about putting that in but its so well known now and repeated on so many channels that I wanted to include less obvious stuff.
To be honest this easily could have been 20 amazing facts.
@@TheLairdsLair if that's not the most passive aggressive.. I mean British way to call me an uninspired normie I've ever heard... Lol 😂
Hahahaha, no offence meant!
It would be nice to get your teeth cleaned with 64bits of power.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think arguably the most interesting fact about the Jaguar not mentioned in the video was the VR helmet that was in development. I'm pretty sure Missile Command 3D came out of that. Thanks for the very fun, informative video about the Jaguar.
I did a separate video on the Jaguar VR!
th-cam.com/video/JiR8ee0UB1s/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TheLaird%27sLair
I have a Jaguar and almost all games, and it’s one of my favorite consoles from this time period because it’s so unique. After all these years new home brew and ports keep getting released. Jaguar and Dreamcast are my two favorites…
I became a first time Jag owner in 2022. I love it. Very quirky. Ive got around 11 carts, which range from good to excellent. The console really does have some hidden gems. Too bad its all so expensive in this era of retro gaming. Great video!!
Likewise I just got one myself, Ive never even touched one up until now. It came with 10 games, couple of them really good, I can see so much potential in this console, it truly could have been something special. It had a sleek design, music quality is really good, it was just the software couldnt keep up, that seems to be the common theme for all "failed" consoles.
Sorry, I feel like you both are just drinking a ton of copium. I’ve played Jag games and, for the most part, they are awful. They are awful in 2023 and they were bad in the 90s.
Just wondered, have you played all of these? The Jag has some brilliant exclusives, problem is that most people haven't played them.
10 Amazing Atari Jaguar Exclusives - th-cam.com/video/c_BW9FGEntc/w-d-xo.html
@@TheLairdsLair I watched your entire list and I just disagree on a lot of your “A” rated games. And I’m done with retro games. But take that football/soccer/etc game you gave high marks to. To me, that game just plays as a less fun version of Mutant League Football on the Genesis.
But that’s just me.
I assume you mean Brutal Sports Football, but I didn't review that game in that video so I am confused!
I had a Jaguar that I picked up in 1998 (brand new) on clearance with 3 games for about $100. It was OK but I had really young kids at the time and they were more into N64, so it didn't get much use. When the PS2 was coming out, I really wanted one but I was very limited in my VG budget at the time. Someone offered me $250 for my barely used Jaguar and games which I took and used it to get my PS2. Still kicking myself for that one but money was really tight at the time.
Still have a day one of release Jag with a bunch of carts, SCART adapter and also have the CD unit, Set it up recently to see if it still worked and yes all fully functional and looks and sounds great in a modern Sony TV. All stored in the original packaging.
When it became too difficult to find carts I went over to some new bit of kit called The Playstation, whatever happened to that?
Have Chequered Flag, Tempest 2000 (with audio CD), Cybeermorph, Club Drive, Iron Soldier, Alien V Predator, Theme Park, Bruce Lee, Trevor McFur, Wolfenstein, Doom, Raiden, Dino Dudes and on CD Blue Lightning, Vid grid, Myst Demo and Highlander (full version and demo disc).
Might need to have a blast this weekend.
what luck!! you know i still haven't seen one in person to this day, except for the box which they had at EBgames, but i never physically saw the console anywhere.
"Cybeermorph" is a great drinking game. Take a shot when you hear "Where did you learn to fly?"
I love my Jaguar and all its great games :)
I remember seeing the ads for the Jaguar in my gaming magazines. Was really excited by the name, and look of the console before it came out, but never did get one.
Glad some Jag games made it to Atari 50. I always wanted to play Atari Karts without spending hundreds of dollars
Having made my Jaguar PlayOne and all, the truth is that Atari should have never released the Jaguar when they did. Atari's financial situation was not as bad as people made out, and the Jaguar hardware was scalable, meaning they could have tweaked it and increased speed until it was released. A few other simple design changes which I will show in my upcoming version of PlayOne will show what the Jaguar could have really become had they waited.
What timeframe do you think they should have released it in?
The Jaguar is cute because it still had some 2d support ( Raiden ) and support for walls in Doom and AvP . Would they have dropped that? 16 bit color only for everything. Also weird that they could not live with power of 2 only framebuffer pitch. 8bit cartridge like on GBA. Sega controller instead of Atari backwards compatible.
I would like to see the tweaks. The Jaguar needs two cycles to do bit logic. In the same time it allows you to acquire the system bus, set an address, check for row change, set RAS CAS, and read back the data.
Jaguar needs 1 cycle for multiplication and can do 2 palette lookups per cycle and 2 subtractions for the division unit.
Something is really off here.
JRISC on both Tom and Jerry can do MUL in 1 cycle. Color space conversion even does 3 multiplication ( RGB ) on video read out. 28 MHz pixel clock possible on a TV ?!
A sprite costs 8 cycle bookkeeping per scanline for which the whole system is frozen.
Great Video (as always) on a pretty good console
Atari should've released the Panther as a 32bit console and then worked on the Jaguar and released it a few years later.
1st comment, been thinking of making some videos about the old Jag, had one growing up and it ended up in the cupboard eventually once I got SNES and then PC. Good video dude keep it up.
I had one as a kid in UK used to play Doom to death I also accidentally found out godmode etc cheatcodes while taking a nerdrage on the controller
Great look at a very underated console
Besides hearing you brits pronounce it Jag-yoo-arr, came here to announce I'm part of the Jaguar (Jagwahrr) club.
Brought home a complete in box jag with 2 complete in box games, Zool2 and Checkered Flag, plus the Cybermorph pack in cart. Scored at the Detroit Retro Gaming show 4/27.
All parts and docs included, as well as og registration card, jag club card and Jag-Ware catalog, which may have been an extra vs packed in.
Only thing missing is the formed cardboard tray the console and parts were packed in from factory. Has KB Toys price sticker on it, a popular mall toy store 80s through 00s in the USA
Scored Tempest 2000 bare cart today for 30usd on ebay. Also bought AtariAge RebootAroids homebrew.
We pronounce it the correct way 😉
Welcome to the club! Watch the Jaguar exclusives video I made for some essential purchase recommendations!
th-cam.com/video/c_BW9FGEntc/w-d-xo.html
The Jaguar's keypad was inherited by the Jaguar from the Konix Multisystem which was also designed by Flair
Actually, it's from the Atari Panther, almost exactly the same, just with a different D-pad and different colours.
The Konix had several different controllers.
I rember when Martin Brennnen was flogging his cd music system he put on the blurb that he helped develop the first 64 bit games console.
Now that's an interesting fact!
Kinda a shame the Panther was never released. Supposedly it was equivalent to the neo geo in terms of 2D performance, I wonder what they might have come up with 🤔
If you want to know more I suggest you watch my video on the Atari Panther!
th-cam.com/video/dHQN2JAGgeU/w-d-xo.html
I owned a Jaguar, (not sure if it was new)and a few games. Didn’t think much of it, in hindsight should have given it more of a chance.
15:57 “I never had much hate for the Jag Pad”
Okay, now that is funny.
One of my favourite controllers, especially the pro version.
@@TheLairdsLair Is calling it “the Jag Pad” a thing? I’ve never heard of that before.
Yep, Jag Pad is what its commonly known as.
@@TheLairdsLair I can’t believe I’ve never heard that. It’s so dumb and yet so awesome at the same time.
I'm not sure how many of the Atari Jaguar's games would appeal to me but I do love the console's cartridges and it's fascinating to learn more about it (usually the case with the fifth console generation).
1:01 - I can agree with that. Much like in the lesser case of the 64DD (as the N64 had success beforehand), it feels like the CD add-on both distracted Atari from supporting the base Jaguar and adding an extra price barrier to the consumer.
1:54 - My vote was for the Neo Geo Pocket; but again, Generation 5 is always an interesting one to learn more about.
4:06 - I do wonder though... was the Panther easier to develop for? Given Atari was one of the earlier 5th Gen consoles (Sega and Sony didn't have worldwide releases until 1995), would it have been able to garner a stronger initial support and thus a stable support base compared to the Jaguar? If it had released in 1991, that would have given it an impressive four years lead. It's a fascinating what-if to ponder about with ease of development being one of the biggest factors.
7:19 - The downside of a quick short-term financial boost like that. Given their plans to develop new consoles and systems, you would think they would realise the importance of keeping their manufacturing plants around... though perhaps they saw no alternative at the time. Their all-in-approach with the Jaguar likely didn't help matters.
11:59 - Given how cash strapped Atari were, I'm surprised they didn't go with the Amiga approach and have their console based around their computer line like Falcon here. Then again, with their all-in-approach, I'm surprised they bothered releasing the Falcon at all given they discontinued it only a year afterwards.
14:33 - Whilst improvements had been made, could we consider Area 51 a glimpse into the true power of the Atari Jaguar being utilised?
18:21 - This is actually my first time hearing about the Jaguar 2, at least in any detail. I'm surprised they were considering a follow-up given their financial state and even having it go to the efforts of tying it back to the Jaguar despite it's small userbase.
22:10 - I didn't realise it was Telegames who published this version of Worms. An as late as 1998 as well, even after the Amiga received the Director's Cut version.
Atari ST sales had been struggling since the mid-1980s. Even though the Falcon was welcomed by the tiny Atari computer customer base at the time, sales were just such a trickle by then.
A hybrid computer/console system might have changed the situation. Who knows? Maybe not.
ST was still selling well in Europe until about 1990 when sales started to decline rapidly.
@@TheLairdsLair I know the Amiga and ST were fairly old by that point but why did their sales drop so suddenly. I'm assuming in the gaming side of things, the Mega Drive and eventual SNES would of had an impact but was it just because the consoles were catching up.
It's a Jag! It was a marvel of its time. 32 bits in 1992! Unfortunately game exclusivity and lacking having the support of a half a trillion worth corporation to back it up with aggressive marketing/game production, let to its demise. I mean AvP, Doom, Wolfenstein..come on, light years ahead from Snes!
I love my Jag! If only programmers could use its full Potential! That'd be great!
Watching Raiden play out makes me want to purchase one now. 😭
It's such an amazing port.
That jaguar 2 could have been great. Looks like would’ve outperformed the ps1
What if the panter was released and not the jaguar??
Then we probably would,ve discused ‘what if the jaguar was released’ we would,ve also wondered ‘who onow what could,ve been had atari released their 64bit system,who ever know how much forward in time they were with their 64bit system’ etc,,,
The most interesting part in the video is your mention about that most game developers just didn’t bother using those extra chips and just rely on the M6800 just to cheaply port their 16bit games to it, for wich i do believe that many people did turn off from it,wich is understandible because why would you ever want a 64bit just to play 16bit games on it?? And that’s bullshit!
Great video, but still a bit sad you didn't mention anything about Atari Jag VR .
Mainly because I've done a separate video on the Jag VR, which is linked in the comments, this one easily could have been 20 facts.
cool, will have to check it out.@@TheLairdsLair
Love my Jag.
Wow, IBM killed or nearly killed THREE giants - Atari, Apple (forcing them to go x86) and IBM
I had the choice between the CD version of Iron Soldier II or the cart of Breakout 2000 back in the day. I chose Iron Soldier II, and I regret it to this day. My copy freezes on the weapons selection screen, making it unplayable. All I could do is look at pictures of Breakout 2000 and the solid reviews of it online and hate myself.
I also regret that after putting myself on the email list for Battlesphere, I ended up changing my internet/email provider and never getting to order the game. I've only ever had the opportunity to play it at game conventions and hate myself even more since I can't justify paying that much for a copy.
Why did you not return it? And Iron Soldier II is definitely the better game of the two.
@@TheLairdsLair I bought it at a GameStop that was really far away, and I assumed I'd have to bring it back to the same location. I was young and naive. Plus, I'd bought the only copy they had. They only had one of Iron Soldier II, Breakout 2000, and Redline Racing CD. That one wasn't much of an option - I was burned too badly by Checkered Flag to try another polygon racer on the Jag again.
I assume you mean World Tour Racing, one of my favourite Jaguar CD games.
@@TheLairdsLair That's right. Wasn't the game developed as Redline Racing and then renamed? I could swear I read about it in Game Fan Magazine back in ye olden days.
Checkered Flag was called Redline Racing at one point. The development name for World Tour Racing was F1 Racer.
Y’all ever favorite and subscribe within seconds of hitting play? Yeah this was one of ‘em
Nice!
I never have understood companies view points on
Being cash strapped
Owing money too several people
Needing a product too sell and do better than anything you've released before.......
Then deciding with all of the above, to release a product without correct or any advertising, knowing it is buggy and not ready, but releasing it and expecting it too sell?????
I mean, imagine owning a restaurant, you got in massive debt too open it, you need amazing reviews...... You have a food review with expert critics, and on that night, you decide to get amateur chefs and serve Chicken as the main course too food critics, knowing it was under cooked........ Then asking ''why'' it all went wrong and people were poisoned lol.
For some reason, companies like Atari (That should have known better), Panasonic with the 3DO, Phillips and their CDi,
Amiga CD32 (That should have known better) and SEGA! Of all people, they all did the same thing, rushed hardware that wasn't needed, then wondered why it all went tits up.
The 90's were bat s##t crazy.
Atari had 2 different dev kits available for the Jaguar, one for PC and one which used the TT030. To really get access to all of what the Jaguar hardware could do, you needed to use the TT030.
It's thankful Hasbro released the Lynx and Jaguar encryption keys to the public. No new games could have been written and released otherwise. Same for the 7800 which the key for it was almost lost had it not been found on an ST hard drive which was slated for scrapping!
The problem with the Jaguar and Atari in general was that the arcade at home by this point was old hat. Console gaming and Arcade had already diverged. Why would you want to pay that kind of money to mostly play games that were designed to be short and hard would you could get a playstation and play immersive expensive games which lasted for weeks? Not that the games Atari made and licenced were bad just that they work much better as mini games.
I just love hearing the British say "Jag U Are"
The correct pronunciation of course ;-)
Personally, I’m quite saddened by the fact that only Sony was able to come out of the mess that was the 5th generation of consoles. How cool would it have been if we had 5, 6, or 7 gaming machines, all battling it out, going into the new millennium. Maybe it’s the 90s kid in me but gaming was so fun when there were more variation out there. If you owned a Sega console, you got Sega games on that machine. Even if the software was multi-platform, there were significant differences between the systems. Now, everything is so homogenized. Thank God Nintendo has survived, otherwise the gaming landscape would be super bleak.
I very much agree, although I've never really been a Nintendo fan.
@@TheLairdsLair Yeah, they’re not for everyone. But even if you aren’t a fan, you’ve got to give props for the contribution to the industry. If it was just Sony and MS, the landscape would be even worse.
Oh totally!
i love the atari vcs name it's a great name to me that's my favorite name and yes atari 7800, atari lynx and atari jaguar may be unpopular and even the new atari vcs too but to me i think atari 7800, and atari lynx are the best great hatdware to me i may not have atari lynx, atari 7800 and atari jaugar they have a place in my heart they are not a failure to me at all even tho it's a failure to everyone else i also feel the same way about the atari vcs i think they are awesome i know i mentioned i love the new atari vcs that it's my favorite i love so much i think atari 7800, atari lynx and the new atari vcs are amazing best to me so far the new atari vcs has me a new atari fan and i had no idea atari was planning on making atari jaguar 2 unreleased cancalled hardware until you mentioned it in this video i do think atari 7800, atari lynx, atari jaguar and the new atari vcs are underrated and i know it's not the same oringial atari i'm ok with that and what if another altenrate reality dimension timeline when the most video game hardware and software that got cancelled in this reality never got cancelled another reality and what is atari jauga, atari 7800 and atari lynx was popular that atari won even tho i don't like populairty at all i think popularity is overrated to me in my unpopular point of view we all have our own difference preference there are some unpopular video game hardware, software, movies and show i prefer love better than most of the popular ones that's just me
Yay Jaguar :)
Atari Jaguar 64 that was launch on November 23rd, 1993 ON MY BIRTHDAY OF ALL THINGS! And only 4 games was launch with it one was a Cheap Knock Off Star Fox game Cybermorph as a packin. But it was Atari and the main reason I wanted THE JAG was in the back of the box and some magazine page ads was images of games and one of them was Tiny Toon Adventures for the Atari Jaguar but sadly it never was released. To this day Im still pissed off that Tiny Toon never saw the light of day.
Honestly, CyberMorph is nothing like Star Fox, they might look similar in screenshots but Nintendo's game is an on rails shooter, Atari's game is a true open world exploration game.
I have the prototype version of Tiny Toons and its a terrible game, I can understand why they canned it.
Saying the Jaguar is a 64 bits machine because it can execute 64 bits instructions would make the Megadrive a 32 bits machine, and modern computes 512 bits machines. That's usually not what we refer to as the number of bits of a machine. Saying the Jaguar has no CPU is also a little bit too close to Atari's marketing. In practice, the Motorola 68000 really was the machine's CPU despite Atari's claim that it was just there to distribute tasks around. In practice there were many tasks that would have to be done by the 68k. Not that it matters much, but still...
You clearly weren't listening, because you are ignoring the TWO 64-bit processors, the 64-bit data bus and the 64-bit memory. So no, that's not the same thing at all.
And no the Jaguar doesn't have a CPU, in the manual written by the Jaguar designers it tells programmers to turn the 68000 off after the system has booted, sadly too many lazy coders didn't follow those instructions. The 68k wasn't actually needed at all, it was only put there to add some familiarity.
What modern computer has 512 bit instructions?
21:24 could you provide a source for where you found this information regarding the Telegames deal for the merge? It seems somewhat off-kilter. Atari reported in its 10-K form for FY 1995 that it stopped producing new Jaguar units in mid 1995.
My main source is Telegames president and owner Pete Mortimer who told me in detail about this deal some years ago when I interviewed him for Retro Gamer magazine. But I believe there is also a shareholder document that states this somewhere. And on all those Telegames releases it also clearly states on the box they they are licensed from Atari/JTS with a joint copyright.
They did stop producing Jaguar units then, but why would that affect games support? They stopped because they had too many in inventory.
The Jaguar was a right lash up of a design and it showed and inevitably why it failed.
I have been rewatching old episodes of Gamesmaster and even back in the day the games were poorly rated
I remember EB/Game selling off new old stock consoles and games cheap around 20 years ago. Should have picked some up instead of just laughing at them
The funny thing is that a many of the Jaguar games that got slaughtered in reviews back in the day are now really highly regarded. For example, Super Burnout got 38% in one magazine - it's now rightly regarded as an outstanding 2D arcade-style racer.
@@TheLairdsLair The issue seems to be there was no poor hardware or games these days. Every piece of hardware was a masterpiece no matter how bad it was look at the support rubbish like the MegaCD, 32X, Sega Saturn get now for example
My favourite quote is "The was no bad hardware, just poor Devs" which is just rubbish
Rose tinted retro gaming glasses or revisionism take your pick ?
Most people praise the platforms they have nostalgia for the most rather than being objective
The Jaguar is really closer to an early 32 bit system in performance. Just like the N64 was closer to a 32 bit PlayStation than a true 64 bit machine.
This is kind of like how a rotary engine may only displace 1.3 liters but is more comparable to a 2.6 liter piston engine…
Yep, bits are meaningless, it's the actual specs that matter.
I used to drive an RX-8, and currently own a Jaguar. That's an excellent comparison. Two bizarre engineering projects, both very niche
NGL i HATE my jaguar 3 button controller lol.
Hundreds of hours playing Tempest 2000 probably gave me autism. 🤣
"Where did you learn to drive?"... Grimsby, why do you ask?
I wish there had been one AAA title made for it. I think some owners kid themselves, but there wasn't even one true example. All the top games were flawed and didnt really move the needle.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
LOL, ok
No point in event arguing with people like this.
@@TheLairdsLair if it had ONE true AAA it would have moved more units then 225k. Games like AVP were good efforts, but they were all marred with massive imperfections.
that jaguar controller could have been SO much better....they really dropped the ball there....
One of my favourite controllers, so can't agree.
What does it say at beginning of your videos? “Welcome rum runner”?
"Welcome STUN Runner!" from the Atari Lynx port of the arcade game.
Thank you for the Bit Wars part. I got so sick of videos about Jaguar on youtube repeating that "they just added the 32 bits of Tom and Jerry together and called it 64 bits" crap that I basically had to stop watching them.
Yeah it becomes so tiresome. The amount of total misinformation out there about the Jaguar is staggering.
@@TheLairdsLair I agree, and same for the misinfo related to all other consoles like the Atari 5200 and 7800 and the ColecoVision.
Totally, and add the 7800 to that list, which I think is the second most misunderstood console after the Jaguar.
@@TheLairdsLair Done.
I prefer to trust the words of people who made actual commercial games for it than the guy who wrote an emulator personally, but each to their own.
The saving grace was Tempest 2000. Had had both Jaguar and the CD unit on initial release. 2 issues were no one except Jeff Minter knew how to program a game using it's capabilities (not just using the 68000) and no good 3rd party support. I blame Atari for making programming assistance almost zero for developers, no so much the actual hardware. I had many games and I don't know why AvP gets mentioned, it wasn't very good at all. There are so many beyond bad games it's not even funny.
Jeff's games, as good as they are, use the 68K quite a lot. Years ago there was a list on a forum that listed the games that mostly avoided it, but its long gone sadly. I do remember that Missile Command 3D and Hover Strike (especially the CD version which is even more optimised) were top of that list. There are quite a few bad games, but not nearly as many as people make out in my opinion and the Jag has a lot of good exclusives.
@@TheLairdsLair A few bad games? That's an understatement!!! 😆😆😆
As I said, I don't think there's that many. I don't think its worse than any other system of its era on the good to bad games ratio, so we'll have to agree to disagree I think.
The whole idea of "bits" was and is absurd in this generation of gaming.
Unless it's the bandwidth of the system bus, or the amount of ram it can address, bits mean precisely dick.
Yep, 100% - as I said in another comment, it was all about what the chips could actually do, not the bitness.
Bits don't really matter, but the short answer is no, it's not 64 bit, much like the genesis isn't 32 bit. It's not, the long answer is complicated. This from a tech guy.
They don't, but lots of people think they do, so this part of the video was important I felt.
The Genesis is 16-bit, it literally says it on the console, so why would anyone claim otherwise? And yes, the Jag is 64-bit, as I went to great lengths to explain. As an aside, I have interviewed most of the main programmers who worked on the Jag and all of them agreed the Jaguar was "64-bit where it mattered" to give a direct quote from Fred Gill.
I take no notice of tech demos, I do however take notice of the many conversations I've had with people who actually worked on the Jaguar and coded some of its best games - they know far better than anyone what it can/can't do and how the architecture is made up.
The Doom story is a bit more complicated than that, John Carmack himself stated that it could have had music had he been given longer to work on it. This has since been proved by the homebrew community.
What is 64-bit gaming then? Why didn't the Intellivision or Texas TI-99 deliver games the quality of the Neo Geo? Both are 16-bit after all. Bits are meaningless, especially in a console, it's all about what the chips can actually do.
The music is there in the code, it just wasn't implemented. From my understanding this is what homebrew coders have "fixed".
Nobody sees the Amiga, ST or Neo Geo as 32-bit systems because they are 16-bit and the first 2 were never proclaimed as anything else (Neo Geo was marketed as being 24-bit).
But what do I know I don't understand anything apparently 🙄
Yes, I covered that in another video on the ST.
I don't agree (once again) the Jaguar comes off really well against the Neo Geo in direct comparisons. For example:
Super Burnout > Riding Hero
Power Drive Rally > Neo Drift Out
Rayman > Blues Journey
Is it true the Jaguar would be as powerful as the Playstation if the developers had the chance to properly de-bug it?
It's swings and roundabouts really, because in terms of 3D the PlayStation spanks the Jaguar, but when it comes to 2D its the other way round. Overall the PS1 is definitely the more capable console, but not by as much as many people seem to think.
@@TheLairdsLair yeah, the Jaguar had games that looked and played almost as good as Tekken 3, Crash Bandicoot, Metal Gear Solid, and Gran Turismo 2 but what were they again? PS1 was spanked by the Jaguar in 2D its true, PS1 only had 2D games like Rayman, Symphony of the Night, Mega Man X4, Heart of Darkness, Mortal Kombat Trilogy, and Street Fighter Alpha 3, but the Jaguar definitely spanked the PS1 in 2D. Jaguar had great 2D games with Rayman, 2D games that appeared on the much older 16-bit systems, and... what else?
Well the first game you mention is Rayman, which is better on the Jaguar, and if you are excluding ports then stuff like Super Burnout, Power Drive Rally, Ultra Vortek and the Native prototype look amazing.
Even ports, you have stuff like Myst, which has more colours on screen than any other version. It's a shame they didn't get more 2D stuff out because that's where the hardware excelled.
@@TheLairdsLair I agree that Rayman is better on the Jaguar, but when you compare side by side I reckon that you still get a great Rayman on the PS1. I wouldn't say the Jaguar gulf in 2D is as big as PS1 is in 3D, more like a 'bit better'.
I think Power Drive Rally is gorgeous and it does really help your argument. I look at that game and I think of that generation (Saturn included) it holds up as one of the better looking and playing 2D games.
@@AFourEyedGeek
I have but one answer but it is an incredible one....just look at Skyhammer and then tell me again how badly the Jaguar is at 3d. It is an open world that is fully textured and plays like G-Police. It's a game that stands against second generation PS1 games. It was done with a chipset that was not finished.
If they had released the panther, they could have something to show off while still working on the Jaguar.
I totally agree
PUBLIC DOMAIN FOR SURE!
The First time Id Heard about It I start asking myself - this means I can re-release the console and New games for It If I wanted?
Off course It makes absolutely no Sense on an industry level nowdays but ... Could I?
You can yes, if you want! There are other people who have done such things.
They do like most companies that are trying to make money lie😊
The Jaguar is NOT a 64-bit system. The bus "bits" are irrelevant if the CPUs inside the Jaguar can't handle them natively. Most devs didn't even use Tom and Jerry, and just opted to use the 68000, which is a 16/32 hybrid. This explains why most of the games looked like 16-bit games. Case closed.
The Jaguar doesn't have a CPU, it has 5 processors, 2 of which are 64-bit. It's impossible not to use Tom and Jerry because they deliver the graphics and sound.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about and didn't pay attention to the video, which explains this pretty clearly.
To this day I'm amazed at the audacity of the 64 bit claim. Along with 99% of AtariAge.
Erm, yeah, right.
@@TheLairdsLair high on the fumes, decades later
Sounds like your an expert on getting high, so I'll take your word for it.
It could have been one million bits but the games still looked lame and trashy.
And his wife divorced for his failure 😂
I'm not a fan of the controller. I dislike the position and feel of the action buttons, as well as the awkward D-pad (angled away from you). But I find it's not such a big deal overall, because there aren't any Jaguar games that have me looking to power it up again anyway. The only Jaguar game I really got into was Iron Soldier, and I find the Playstation sequel Iron Soldier 3 more fun anyway.
I really wish Atari had gone with a hybrid computer/console approach - like how the XEGS was a "stealth" home computer, and Commodore Amiga CD32 was a "stealth" home computer. Atari cancelled ST production in favor of Jaguar, so it would have been a lot nicer to include an ST in the Jaguar. Just connect a floppy, keyboard, and mouse, right? Oh well.
Or the cancelled Painter - the Falcon/Jaguar hybrid.
That chart at 6:33 is so incredibly wrong about 3do that it's not even funny. The 3do bus is clocked at 200 megabytes, not 50. This chart is responsible for all sorts of wrongly published technical specifications about the 3do lol
Also, my favorite arcade shooters are area51 and maximum force
it is not 64 bit. bitness is determined by one sole factor. the size of the cpu registers. any other standard is bs and no programmer with decensy will agree with it.
So you have just made my argument for me thanks - because 2 of the Jaguar's 5 processors are 64-bit (there is no single CPU).
@@TheLairdsLair yeah not 64bit. the object proc n memory addressing were 64 but that's where it ends. the main cpu /s was 32bit. google something like "jaguar not 64bit" it was a similar tactic used for the turbo gfx 16. it was actually an 8bit console with 8bit cpu registers running a 16bit gpu. as we all know gpu doesnt determine bitness. otherwise you could slap an nvidia gou in your pc and call it 256bit. same story. atari used 32bit cpus to operate and 64bit gfx/mem componentes in there n tried calling it 64bit, same way nec tried calling their tg16 16bit. 👎🏽
I'm still trying to work out most of what you said there because it barely makes sense, but you still seem to be suggesting the Jaguar has a CPU, when it doesn't, and you seem to be suggesting only the OPL and memory were 64-bit, which is also untrue because the all important data bus is and so is the Blitter.
I suggest you either listen to what I said in the video a bit closer, because you have failed to address any of those points, and maybe look at the Jaguar hardware in a bit more detail.
At the end of the day bits are pointless, its about what the hardware can actually do, but that still doesn't change the fact the Jaguar is 64-bit.
@@TheLairdsLair can you debate as to why Intel, AMD, and ARM only claim their 2023 processors are still only 64-bit? Their specifications show that it is because their instruction set is still 64-bit. The Atari Jaguar processors execute 32-bit or 16-bit instructions on its 32-bit RISC or 16-bit 68000 processors, no 64-bit code is executed anywhere on the system. Only data transfers and video processing of 64-bits happen on the Jaguar, which doesn't make it 64-bit. We have 4096-bit data movement on modern computers, but they are still only claim to be 64-bit systems. So we could believe you or the largest corporations who develop processors in the world.
By the way, I still like your content, but I strongly disagree with your opinions on the Atari Jaguar.
*Trying to explain to Janguar fanboys that its NOT 64-bit*
is worse than trying to explain to Flat-Earthers that the earth is NOT FLAT.
I'm not sure what a "Janguar" is, but assuming you mean the Atari Jaguar can you tell me what part isn't 64-bit?
Is it the 64-bit Object Processor?
The 64-bit Blitter chip?
The 64-bit DRAM controller?
Or the 64-bit data bus?
I'll wait . . . . .
@@TheLairdsLair Lulz! Here we go.... nope...
I consider it to be Atari's Amiga 1200. The Atari ST was their Amiga 500. But just like the 1200 it was too little _much_ too late. The Playstation and, later on, the Nintendo 64 blew these machines (and the shamefully overrated overpriced 3DO and CDi) completely out of the water with their excellent 3D support.
Case closed? No. Your content is usually really good and well-researched but you're completely wrong here. There's a great deal of testimony online from Jaguar developers who lamented the lopsided architecture of the system and its very weak 68000 CPU. Yes, _CPU_. That's what it is. All the PR spin in the world won't change that, because "system manager" instead of CPU is precisely that: PR spin. You're correct when you state that the 68k can be relegated to more menial tasks but the Jaguar SDK really didn't offer much in terms of libraries, which in turn did little to inform developers what the system was actually capable of. Carmack saw the potential of the Jaguar, but not every developer is Carmack or Yu Suzuki.
The Jaguar cannot process 64-bit instructions because it has no 64-bit instructions to process. It has no 64-bit registers. The width of a data bus does not determine the bit architecture of a system. It never has, and the Jaguar is no special exception.
Nope, sorry, you're totally wrong. I have interviewed almost all the major developers from those Jaguar days including people who worked on the hardware, members of Attention to Detail, the Rayman dev, Jeff Minter, Rebellion, John Carmack, Rob Zdybel (Hover Strike), the team behind Battle Sphere, Eclipse, High Voltage, most of Imagitec Design etc. And most of these can be found in print, such as the Jaguar anniversary article in Retro Gamer magazine. ALL of them believed the Jaguar was 64-bit, and they went into great length on many occasions to explain why, so I prefer to believe them over anyone else.
@@TheLairdsLair
That's fine. I won't change your mind on the subject. But the problem with your conclusion is that its GPU chipset (which we can agree comprise almost the entire strength of this architecture) fails nearly every requisite factor that the industry uses to determine the value of a system's bit architecture. Namely,
1.) CPU Word Size (No)
2.) Data Bus Width (Yes)
3.) Memory Addressing (No)
4.) Register Size (No)
5.) Instruction Set (No)
Every other architecture has had itself categorized by these objective requirements. What you're suggesting here is that the Atari Jaguar is the sole outlier and grand exception to this standard industry determination due to the subjective influence and opinions of marketing and developers, respectively. That's going to make for one hell of an asterisk and footnote for future researchers, to be sure.
This system was doomed from the beggining. A turd not worth taking.
Lot of complex discussion of bits and shit. Real issue is no one cares about that at all. 90% of the games were super generic/stupid looking. Most of the games just look ugly. No one with a choice would choose that junk over alternatives like sega/Nintendo/Sony
Ridiculously stupid and lame looking controller didn’t help.
After 1984, you were a chump if you got an Atari console or computer. Every other console was better and the computers were poverty-tier and only suitable for 3rd worlders who couldn’t afford a real pc
I assume the peanut in your name refers to your brain.