How we make memories and how memories make us - with Veronica O'Keane
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- Memories make us who we are, but how do we make memories? And what happens when the process goes wrong? Veronica O'Keane and James McConnachie explore the intricacies of the human brain.
Veronica's book is out now: geni.us/QXcAkBY
Watch the Q&A with Veronica here: • Q&A: How we make memor...
Psychosis is often a misunderstood medical condition. For all of us, the line between a functioning and a broken narrative is all too easily broken. Through her patients’ haunting stories of trauma and healing, Veronica reckons with contemporary taboos about psychosis and challenges some of the methods of her own profession.
Veronica O’Keane is Professor of Psychiatry at Trinity College Dublin, where she leads a research programme in depression. The medical model of psychiatry she believes, is deeply inadequate to the task of repairing a broken narrative after a period of psychosis. Bringing the evidence of neuroscience to psychiatry and the richness of literature to her patient analysis, Veronica offers an original scientific and empathetic approach to understanding how memory is made and how to reframe and build a healthy narrative.
From a religious and conservative rural childhood, Veronica has made a remarkable journey through academia and feminism to become a recognised public figure in Ireland, having acted as an expert witness in the 2008 national debates to overturn the abortion law.
This livestream was recorded on 15th February 2022.
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Thank you so much, RI. For having good sound.
Such an interesting discussion, Thank you. I am going to investigate the key concepts inserts to help my understanding. Interesting also to read the comments below.
I was given Veronica’s book ´the rag and bone shop ´ and searched for interviews with her. So glad I have found this. Thank you Royal Institute for orienting me on my journey
I find it fascinating how Prof O’Keane talks about the hippocampus and how damage of diminishment of it affects one’s “sense of place”. She states Depression shrinks the hippocampus. I grew up in a highly stressful and dysfunctional home environment and experienced depression and did not experience a sense of place. I left in my own accord because of this toxicity at the relatively young age of 16. I am wondering if this shrinkage of the hippocampus due to Depression creating a diminished “sense of place” is an evolutionary way of signalling a red flag about the potential toxicity of the environment by reducing a sense of place (shrinking of hippocampus) to get the affected person to move on to a safer place, where the hippocampus can regain its natural size and depression is diminished
The dark room of Veronica and the noise made her and psychiatry all the more mysterious.
Thank you for the talk. Initially I hoped it would explain more the mechanics and go into details of some of the memory systems. But I still enjoyed the talk.
Something I find relevant and disturbing are situations where a patient has a real memory of something so odd that psychiatrist may attribute it to a psychosis when in actuality it did occur.
@@jamesscanlon5733 I'm pretty sure there have been many many false diagnosis. When I consider how many mistakes GPs have made with me over the years for mundane things, one just wonders how many mistakes are made with complicated issues. Even more scary is the idea that the diagnosis of today, is much much better than the past. They either bled one, or stuck an ice-pike up the eye socket for a nice lobotomy. The harmless versions were prayer and getting wet from holy water. So I'm very grateful to be alive today (mistakes and all).
How can we accept the notion that brain is the centre / location of experience? how can one brain look into another and find out what's wrong with the other ? Which brain is the "better" one ? or is there an onlooker/observer brain qualified to do so ? What about the bias in the observer's brain that gets reflected as that being traits of the observed brain during the observation?
I think if a drug can provide substantial therapeutic benefit, which outweighs any downsides, using it (even if it is off label) should not be considered abusive.
So profound and so beautifully expressed - thank you, Veronica O'Keane.
The hardest part of dealing with someone undergoing a psychosis event is convincing them that their perceptions are not accurately representing reality.
I was about to place the order for the book but stopped when I heard her take on Freud. Interesting conversation overall though.
Exactly my point. I am physicist and she talked nonsense and offending Einstein with Minkowski level. She thinks she is superior.
Read my comment
Did anyone else start hearing voices halfway through?
Yes, just after i found the unmute button, weird ;-)
@Bill Todd Why did you sit through the first half in silence?
@@henrygingercat i was listening to the narrator in my head ;-)
Yes it’s quite true.
Slightly off topic:there is an excellent series of sci-fi books called the 'voices ' series by g x todd ( no relation to me) , that deals with people hearing voices . for good and bad
Brutal audio
Strange fact mentioned here. Older individuals become better at abstract thoughts. It’s not what I learned recently at the great courses about learning. There research was presented that our fluid intelligence (of which abstract reasoning is part of) decline while our crystallized intelligence increase with age.
The way I interpreted that thought was that there are undertones within experiences that we have as we have them repeatedly over the course of our lifetime, and it’s these undertones that build and build subtly over time to form overarching concepts that are hard to really explain consciously. I would compare it to the shape of a land over many hundreds of years as it is weathered and built up by generations of plants growing and dying.
@@EMOTIBOTS that’s a lot of interpretation. :) Abstract reasoning is associated with the executive brain function - the prefrontal cortex. Which gets pruned as we age (including other processes). The pruning is a form of specialization. Or that is what is taught.
Excuse me, could you tell me about where i can find great courses about learning.Are they on TH-cam?
@@user-eu6lw3of2r No. You have to purchase them. Or have a plus subscription. They have several on learning, 'the learning brain", "the aging brain", "understanding the Brian" and others that crossover into it, like "outsmart yourself", "biology and human behaviour", which have a lot of neuroscience in it. I think these courses are great for people that want to have some depth to their knowledge (where a single book won't do it), but don't want a degree in it. After all, there are so many interesting fields!
I wondered many times why people shun people with mental disorders. Historically religion made the fate of these people much worse. Think exorcist and sin. It amazing to me that religion, the church got away with all the pain and death it caused, particularly to the mental or physical „disabled“. But this shunning seems universal. Is it because many mental disorders increase the unpredictability of others (which increase possible risk)? To me the stigma seems to be an unconscious biological calculation. After reading R.Sapolsky‘s a primate‘s memoir, it’s obvious that baboons stay away from other „crazy“ baboons as well.
I have (as far as I know...) no serious mental problems yet have a clear memory of doing something with my grandfather which I completely accept accept was not true. Not so strange to me. Like remembering a dream.
That's really interesting, because for the past few years I've been collecting stories like this from friends and family, and I always use that exact wording: "a clear memory that didn't actually happen". If you're comfortable with it, can you tell me some details about your memory?
My data pool isn't huge, but I did notice that many people remember being able to fly when they were children. Someday I'd like to do a big survey on this phenomenon and publish an analysis of it.
Er, GPs have quite an in depth knowledge of "above the neck" stuff, and I'd argue we deal with it more than the average neurologist, unless you're talking about macro neurological changes. The vast majority of mental health care is provided by GPs within the NHS. You would need an awful lot more psychiatry provision if we stopped sign-posting to appropriate psychological services and self help, and the vast majority of SSRI and other psychotropic prescriptions have got our signatures on them.
Doesn't we all have a form of delusion? We see the world, hear a sound, see a tree and then comes our interpretation of what we see or hear.
And is who we are not a interpretation of memory? I can visit all the memory's i was good to people and say i am a good person or i can visit all the bad things are happening and say i am a bad person.
I can think somebody hates me, i can think something bad is gonna to happen, i can think the sound i heard was a gunshot but all it was was firework.
Even the example of the person who loses her memory she is still aware, so then comes the life question that is always asked are we that awareness or consciousness because even without memory we are still aware.
A baby also doesn't have a memory who it is, but the baby is still aware without memory.
And there is a discussion that the biblical prophets doesn't had a psychosis but we can also know people can have non-dual or mystical experiences which they experience that they are awareness itself and not the identity of the body or the mind. And that reality itself is never our interpretation.
The experience is different then a psychosis.
Webcam recordings are painful to watch.
Very true
It would be much nicer if the recordings were captured individually rather than through the zoom call.
Listen next time.
Only need to listen anyway.
So listen while you do something else.
How (who?) can draw the line between treatment to achieve a "normal" outcome and "abuse"? how doe we square the idea of accepting diversity while still looking for treatments to achieve a "normal" outcome?
Well, the part about the connection between memories and emotions is true, but she tends to focus on anecdotal evidence, which is a big no no in science, though I understand it might be harder for psychiatry! 🤦🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
Again an ENT is bypassed.... :)
Doc you and Klaus Schwab need to talk
Einstein is famous for his classical theories, not for particle physics.
In 1905, Albert Einstein proposed the wave-particle theory of electromagnetic radiation. This theory states that electromagnetic energy is released in discrete packets of energy-now called photons-that act like waves.
Now the question is what impact he made on your memory. What do you remember him for. Well I would argue to most people he famous for his "tongue".
@@maddo7192 Particle physics is a modern branch of physics (even if some ideas or philosophies are ancient - as they often are) . Much of physics is related and often after the fact. Einstein is known for his classical theories. Later his theories have been used to answer questions that he, himself, never considered. They didn't have the tools at the beginning of the 20th century. Science didn't even know there was more than one galaxy at that point. We progress as our tools progress.
Maybe famous for classical theories. The public (who "donate" fame) are not always right. His Nobel prize was for the photoelectric effect, an example of particle physics. He had fundamental input into the in the development of quantum physics.
@@tomholdsworth6055 look at the definition of particle physics. There is not much more to say.
Memories can be passed on via parents/ancestors, if you have been somewhere where you "sensed", you have been to an area or event before, then this "deja-vu" event is a false memory experienced not by yourself, but your ancestors? Just as diseases can be passed on via genetic routs, so can memory. The very first memory you have, is the event of birth, your brain receives photons as you emerge from mother, this is basically like a template of positive light onto a negative photo plate? during trauma this image of a dark area with a focused light point, is the out of body experience image people sometime experience near death, or the moment of birth, its nothing more than our very first thought.
This video needs timestamps cause i don't want a full trip, an annoying detour towards the history and semantics of mental sciences and illnesses, that's not why i clicked in the video. I just want to know how stop forgetting shit!
THANK YOU BOTH ...From the bottom of my HEART...!!!
A REQUEST FROM :
A victim of CHILD ABUSE;
A victim of Religious political media ABUSE ;
A victim of Society ABUSE;
A victim of PSychological& PARApsychological ABUSE ;
A victim of Psychiatric drug ABUSE...and other Treatments ....
finally the victim TOTALLY GAVE UP ...after more than 50 years of PAIN & SUFFERING ...but came back UNFORTUNATELY...may be fortunately , because the victim could live to expose the REAL STORY BEHIND ALL THAT...!!!
My REQUEST IS ...PLEASE DO NOT LET THE PSYCHOLOGISTS WORK AMONG THE SOCIETY...WITHOUT A MEDICAL DEGREE IN MEDICINE with NEUROLOGY AND PSYCHIATRY...!!!
PLEASE ABOLISH ALL FREUDIAN PSYCHOLOGY AND PARAPSYCHOLOGY...!!!
Because it is used for ABUSE by individuals , institutions and organizations ...of various Religious - political and Media...of small and big empires ...!!!
TODAY ... We are living in a SOCIETY and WORLD of TECHNOLOGICAL AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE( A.I) ...!!! Most of the time patients are talking about the reality and truth...THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED...!!!
You both and the Medical and scientific communities know that Ancient and Modern herbs and drugs and technology are well able to manipulate NERVE CONDUCTIONS & IMPULSE TRANSMISSIONS ...That could target the special points and centers of BRAIN and affect the physical and mental functioning...!!!
( Even A pressure and Acupunture are able to do that , and used since ancient times...!!!
Even the modern medicine uses it for beneficial diagnosis & treatments ( positively).
The SOCIETY MUST BE EDUCATED ABOUT REALITY AND TO AVOID STIGMAS & ABUSES of Mentally Disabled person or patients ...!!!
Even with reality... patients or victims could benefit from medications...but doses must be adjusted according to the individual patients tolerance and responses ...not to meet the pharmaceutical requirements...!!!
Also alternative measures to control the cause and proper dx. and Rx.after analyzing the following factors :
BACKGROUND;
ENVIRONMENT ;
SPACE ;
TIME &
ATMOSPHERE ;
SITUATION.
( B.E.S.T & A.S.)
ALL THESE THINGS COULD ONLY BE DONE BY AN EXPERT PSYCHIATRIST with Neurology and psychology Education...!!!
Let the Psychologists either re educated to that level and assist the psychiatrists...!!!
PSYCHOLOGISTS MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO PRACTICE INDEPENDENTLY...!!!
PLEASE NO MORE JUST PSYCHOLOGY...!!!
Another important thing is THE SIDE EFFECTS of PSYCHIATRIC MEDICATIONS... mostly affecting the system of elimination process...worse than the drowsiness...!!!
That is one of the main reason a person or a patient is hesitant to continue with his or her medicine...!!!
If the medicine is going to suppress the brain center the usual measures won't work ...!!!
If elimination process do not function properly the whole body is going to have discomfort and it will affect the brain and thus further damage to emotions and wellbeing...!!!
Also contribute to the other physical and mental problems...mostly chronic... due to the reabsorption of toxic radicals...!!!
Most of the time the doctors and nurses and other health workers do not give importance to the relationship of Brain center and elimination system , like any other system in the body ...!!!
If the drug is too sedative ...it suppresses the brain center and affect the elimination process...!!!
Patients could control it themselves with adequate sleep...along with proper food... and patients could also over come by mind control and regular scheduling...!!!
But adequate sleep and relaxation is necessary for that..!!!
( occupational therapy and other routine medical rounds and such health care must be scheduled to make sure that patients are getting the proper sleep and food )...!!!
It is written from the experience both personally and professionally...!!!
PLEASE CONSIDER MY HUMBLE KNOWLEDGE AND IMPORTANT SUGGESTIONS...!!!
AT LEAST WILL BENEFIT FUTURE PATIENTS OF PSYCHIATRIC MEDICINE ...!!!
THANKS AGAIN FOR CONSIDERING IT...!!!
"Well if we were American, we'd all just be shrinks". Eh, making fun of some of your audience in your VERY first statement isn't really all that endearing. I'm sure she's got a lot of interesting things to say but now I'm not really in the mood to hear them.
Did she seriously say that the biblical prophets were suffering from sycosis!?😂
Yes. Doesn't seem very far fetched. Like a lot of (if not all) the religious leaders/founding figures and a lot of their deluded followers might be/have been. Do you know the saying: The difference between a religion and a delusion is the number of people believing in the story.
@@jonathanwalther so when the bible says there was mass revelation, all those folks were really just tripping on some substance?
@@shlomeMendlovits No substance needed per se. Ignorance is sufficient. Like nowadays. Where we have free access to high class science and lectures. But a big part (I claim the majority) of humankind is too lazy or too ignorant or has no time to put some effort in trying to understand some basic Physics/Biology/Chemistry/Psychology/Philosophy. Religious gibberish and other esoteric nonsense combined with cultural/societal/political pressure and a "lazy" and dopamin driven stone age brain are big hurdles.
My serious comment: yes, the lady makes the impression that she understands her subject.
Though sometimes she gets a liitle bit out of structure in her journey.
But what really „ shocked“ me is the way the speaks and offends most important scientists. She loves herselfe very much, is extremely self-convinced.
I am a physicist, Cambridge University, and what she tells about Einstein is absolute nonsense and demonstrates her real character. The truth is: She has no idea about physics but
makes very strong fake statements. She says that Minkowski is comparable with Einstein. What a misjudgement!
Minkowski only lived 45 years ! He achieved some great contributions like the minkowski space-time. But Riemann was the first with multi-dimensional spaces.
Einsteins work is 100 times more worth then Minkowski.
The lady should leave her field and start to study mathematics first.
Can we have this without the guy tilting his head like a maniac as if he is faking listening?
The Royal Institution is a 200 year old independent charity based in London dedicated to connecting people with the world of science.
This and the last video on Genetics violates the mission of The Royal Instituion to connect and not divide the science community.
The Royal Instituion supports with this and the last video on Genetics polemic, false and arrogant attacks on important personalities and fields like Einstein , Freud or all physicists.
The Royal Instituion has to control its publications. and has to establish professional rules.
She lost me when she started saying that 70% of depression cases are curable by pharmacology and in contrast I found it quite hypocritical how she talks about medication for ADHD. I believe this is the problem with psychiatrists, they have preconceived ideas what can be resolved by drugs and what cannot depending on how they perceive how the disorder or condition arises rather than looking at the individual as a whole and what their environment or experiences are. Psychiatrists have their prejudices and clearly she shows that when she talks about the "people in silicon valley" who abuse drugs that are meant for treatment vs for cognitive enhancement or for psychedelic experiences. I would never go to her as a psychiatrist after listening to her talk. You can also see how the host is shocked by her comments and tries to bite his tongue near the end of this interview. What a terrible woman, I feel bad for her patients
Terrible woman, she loves herselfe very much. I am a physicist graduated from Cambridge University and how she destroyed Einstein by setting Minkowski on the same level, what a fake and nonsense.
Minkowski only lived 45 years!
This guy cannot even say a single word without stuttering.
Why did she feel the need to appeal to Authority? Her Authority? Because she says she's talking to the "baby" interviewing her?
What a loathsome individual. It's possible she has something useful to say. In fact I think she did. But that part made me stop listening. Maybe it's a UK thing. But it was obnoxious and noncollegial.
I almost never downvote and disregard TRI interviews. But this was cringe. And no I'm not buying her book, I'll look for derivative studies.
Woa. That’s overreacting. Which bears the question why. If you think someone calling someone else „baby“ is insulting, just think what one thinks of someone that calls someone „loathsome“ for something so trivial. I have been called the same thing in different ways by they elderly when I throw my age around. Never have I felt it to be condescending. And even if it was. So what. Does that make the person loathsome? Wow.
Great, pls read my comment!
She destroyes Einstein with Minkowski level, fake and nonsense.
Yes, in the UK are many people like
her. I graduated in physics from Cambridge University.