It's a pleasure watching reviews like this. I'm becoming allergic of the very good or fantastic kind of reviews. No always agree, but votes always well reasoned. Great work, mc and hny!
Even my favourite games only get played 3-4 times a year. If I play this twice a year it will continue to feel fresh each time and that works well for a game of this length and depth. I'm happy with it.
We had a lot of Apiary played at our recent con. The game ending thing you mentioned is directly opposite to what I’ve experienced and seen though player counts will impact that. One way you compete in this game is by playing chicken over the pacing ie deliberately bumping or not bumping others and that’s usually what we’ve seen ie someone pulls out a combo that forces game end when they’d sneakily finished their personal objective. Agree the dance tiles are useless and yes there is a spot for them in the insert! Hidden Under some other stuff. Jamey has been more obsessed with balance recently after Tapestry but fortunately not too much as that sometimes crazy swinginess is actually something I like about Stonemeier (Viticulture had it too). Tapestry is still a stone cold favourite and seems infinitely replayable due to the variety that makes it swingy. Let’s see if the replacement civ mats cure every balance issue in the game but I doubt it, not actually sure it’s possible!
Thank you Luke. I fully agree with your views on SM. Reminds me a little bit of the trajectory of Days of Wonder which made a nice recovery with their latest hits.
Great review. As a fan of your regular reviews and exactly the same 3 (three - and on these I have everything except WS fan-art birds) SM games, I am glad you confirmed my initial thought on this one - and yes, I couldn't "see the BUZZ" on this one either. Glad I can save money. I also have cooled on Kickstarter and new games like you.
Still got Viticulture, Scythe and Wingspan, but those days just don't seem to be repeating any more for SM. I want something to break out and be different and unique and special, but it just ain't happening!
I heard that the “Isle of Cats” board game was very good…I mean like the “Cat’s pajamas” I also heard that “Apiary” was also great…I mean like the “Bee’s knees” Sadly, I heard the board game “Dog Park” was not the “Dog’s Bollocks”
By now chatGPT would desing a SM Game. Quirky one word name + 2 out of 3 main mechanics (action selection, worker placement or resource convertion) + a secondary quirky mechanic thats popular (bump workers, power cards, hidden roles, action rows, etc). Done. I still have scythe, euphoria and I like Tapestry. But they seem creatively bankrupt (and when they try, they fail, like pendulum).
There is a bespoke place under the cards for the dance cards. Love your stuff Luke, I personally enjoyed this game, getting it at the Stonemier Champion price of less than £50 helped. A decent game, 7.5/10, lots of variety and it comes down to a choice on how you maximise your points.
Variety in what the end game goal is but it's basically what honey tiles and cards you find at the end of the day, not to mention you're spamming the same 3 locations over and over again.
I got this during an insane online Christmas sale here in America. I was able to stack a $10 off $50 coupon on top of free shipping and a 20% off all board games daily advent offer from Miniature Market. So, I got the game for $39. A steal of a deal.
I think this one looks good/not great. I have friends who have played it and enjoyed it, but also agreed that had it not been a Stonemaier production, they would have found it mostly just ok. It isn't all the original, to me, but does have nice artwork and of course solid production value. I have so many worker placement games in my collection, most I would rather play, like the aforementioned Garphill Games. I dropped Champion this year and I actually really like Expeditions, but this one was a pass for me.
@@peterevensen Because generally speaking Stonemaier productions contain quality productions, artwork and rulebooks. Often on the the more deluxe side of standard retail board games. For my friends I suspect, as for me, Stonemaier dropped Viticulture and Scythe two of the better board games on the market, although this was during the Stonemaier KS phase.
Sometimes it feels like you're twisting yourself up looking for complaints and issues. The examples of imbalance in the carve tiles is a case in point. On one hand you complain that the queens favor track is nickel and dime points not worth chasing. Then on the other hand the tile that pays points for going up that track is overpowered. Not saying many of your points are without merit. Just saying at times you contradict yourself. I rarely expect you to give a positive review of particularly popular/hyped games. You seem to me to be a bit of a contrarian. But I do love your reviews and how you systematically dissect games to support your conclusions.
Going up the track by itself, yeah not worth it. But when you double its value for little effort , that's a different story. Nothing contradictory there. And no twisting, SM games generally get the balancing aspect messy, need we bring up Tapestry? And the problem with over hyped games is that they are promising the world and fail to deliver. Occasionally a hyped game delivers (Earth, Art Society, Hegemony) but many times it won't. That's the danger of hype and the review industry. You want positive, don't worry, one is coming 😁
@@TheBrokenMeeple Luke I like your reviews and style. While I disagree with some of your conclusions here I respect your opinion. I found Apiary allowed for many paths to success due to the interaction within the tiles and cards. It does a good job of steering players in different places. Stonemaier does have balance issues throughout its library. But in this case it's mostly good.
90 euros does seem steep. But it's Stonemaier games, so I am not surprised by the price. But just like Expeditions, we'll be skipping this one too mainly because of the price and the lack of time to play.
It's more reasonable outside of Essen but yeah I saw people queuing like sheep to get it for 90 Euro before even testing the game.........I mean...............the hell??
I'm was just in the neighborhood, wanted to say beside 'hello' and 'great review', that there's nothing obvious in the fact that you're actually respond to comments.. You don't need to respond to this one though :) Just want to show my appreciation.. Shine on!
As long as they consider multiple views and then make their own decision, that's what matters. And it's not a good game but others will agree/disagree.
In the summary you say the game can be come repetitive. This could then become boring on multiple plays I guess, however on the flip side whilst I mostly play games multiple player on club nights where this might be a problem there is a game that I would never play on a club night but is by far my most played game with my wife - Castles of Burgundy. In theory this could be classed as repetitive, however it does have two or three routes to victory and they are balanced enough to make you are always in with a chance whichever route you take, but equally you could also end up losing if the other person has a good run of tile placing. With over 100 plays it is still not boring even though individual plays must be pretty similar to previous games. Are there games where you feel being repetitive is compensated by other factors and does Apiary potentially fall into that category. Are there any games that you might class as repetitive that you are happy to get back to the table? I agree with your comments on Stonemaier balance issues, but then you do tend to get a lot of variability with faction selection / choice. I sold Tapestry shortly after acquiring it on its original release a few years ago. I have now just repurchased it along with all expansions in recognition of the ongoing attempts to balance the game including a release of replacement faction cards / tiles in the near future (I think). Not every company would provide that ongoing support to a game. I’m hopeful an Expedition expansion improves the base game as I like the Scythe world. Pendulum and Red Rising were definitely not great though.
The problem with things like Tapestry is that the treatment they have done is exactly the same as a live service game for video games. Where the company issues out a subpar game with issues and then spends years fixing it which requires either more cost from the consumer or more patience. And Tapestry to this day is still an unbalanced mess for the most part, but many are cool with that.
I usually really like your content, but this episode you are going in on this game. Something that you could add to your reviews is a “what can an expansion do to fix it?” Section. This give a different way to talk about negatives.
It's not my job (or any reviewer) to tell a designer or publisher how to fix the problems with their game, nobody else does this. If the game has issues we explain what they are and why they are issues to us. I wouldn't buy a game knowing it was bad in the expectation that they will fix it later. That's what video games do with live service games and look how busted that system is. Negatives are negatives, and too many people shy away from being honest with those negatives, sweeping them under the carpet or passing them off as unimportant.
I really enjoyed playing this game. For me, it's a solid 7.5. Show me a game that brought something completely new to the table regarding worker placements?
Games don't always have to do new things. Many times, I'm happy if they just make the game smoother, or tighter. Apiary added rules overhead for no added fun or interest.
Some of your criticisms on balance are a bit contradictory. For example, you complain about queens favor not being worth doing because the effort is to much for the points and then you criticize queens favor if you get a certain carve you double your queens favor and basically win the game. You then blast that carve being worth 25 points which is the highest point tile in game as being op. But then you criticize queens favor maxing out at a measley 25 points. So when I take all the criticisms of Queens favor it seems decently balanced especially in a game with high variability
Hibernation track does not matter much? Huh, they have decided most of my games. No control over ending the game? Bumping your own workers, anyone? Explore, Advance, rinse repeat? Huh? You can pick up resources from Seed cards, from Hibernations, from Rest actions. Explore is fine, but wouldn't the better players try to generate resources in more "organic" ways and not have to "waste" turns doing nothing but grabbing resources? Playing a game sub-optimally and then griping about limited strategic depth ....? Agreed, the theme is ridiculous. Farms give you "nothing else to show for it"? RIght, except for the income generated on every rest action. Retinue tile ... the designer directly responded on BGG regarding the calculations that went into that scoring tile, but just go ahead and run your "Stonemaier games are imbalanced" shpiel ... the fans love it! Earlier in the video, you said that advancing far on the QF track takes great sacrifice, but now you treat it as if it's a piece of cake, and that anyone who can grab that Retinue tile can just waltz to victory. Come on, now.
The differential on the hibernation track is barely anything compared to the points earned elsewhere. I've yet to have a tight scoring end. And how many turns do you think it will take to bump enough workers to get say 2-3 hibernation tokens out especially if let's say you're left with only 1-2's? Resting which you shouldn't do too often if you can help it unless you have a butt-ton of farms and even then you're limited on how many you can even activate. You want a few resources, just send the Queen Bee out. I never said it was a piece of cake, I said it will take a decent chunk of your game. But if that decent chunk of your game is 50 points by itself, then it's a frigging gold mine. I'll be curious to read his defence of that tile and whether he's seen a game lost with it. Glad we at least agree on the theme! :P And yes SM games are generally imbalanced - even the good ones!
Really apreciate your willingness to be honest, you and boardgamebollocks are top on my "but what do these peeps think" list. You mentioned Euphoria was okay, but have you played the tweaks offered by Ignorance is bliss expansion?
@@TheBrokenMeeple if people love it thats cool. If they have $90 to "invest" thats cool too. Sharing your thoughts regardless of the consequences is true to this video as Ive already read all your disagreers comments so far. As a fellow investor and creator Im glad I get to hear and see yours for free 🤘. I only have access to euphoria from a friend but I still think you should check out the expansion as it may increase your enjoyment of it. Also I know you dont ask for review copies but SM gives then out regardless of what reviewers say about them 🤔
@nib71286 Rarely yes, he has a big list apparently. I've had one notification saying I could have something but it was completely random and at a time where there was no new releases so it was an entirely wasted request. Yet the main players and friends of SM get exactly what they want when they want it.
@@TheBrokenMeeple luckily for us we arent trying to be stonemaeirs friend but just be honest and help others with our honesty, even if it doesnt bring us joy to do so, sometimes it is painful 🤷♂️, but Jamey has said that they like to send review copies of older games to creators to keep those things in the spotlight. If you like Euphoria better than Apiary, Id say Ignorance is bliss is worth the reach out if not just paying for the thing itself, it is certainly cheaper than Apiary. Maybe they will send you euphoria with ignorance is bliss if you promise to send apiary to someone else in your area who reviews stuff 🤔
You are contradicting yourself on some opinions. For example: You're saying that the Queen's track is useless because it's a lot of work compared to Seeds and Honey tiles but after 5 minutes you're saying that the queen's track with that one Honey Tile in combination is the most broken aspect of the game because it gets you 50 points. You have to decide which one is true and not just pick and chose what it's convenient at a particular time.
I've explained to others as many have misunderstood but I'll restate here. I'm not saying the combo is broken because it's suddenly easy. It's busted because it's 50 points which for many is half their score in the game. No other tile can score you 25 points in the game solo, they usually cap realistically at 12, absolute max 16. Getting to the end of the track for 25 isn't overly worth it. 50 is a bit of a step up.
For me it's more the feel of the game, nothing in it feels different from other similar games, so why play this one? Why not wish for more innovation. This game is the definition of "playing it safe"
I hate unbalanced games so much. It takes the fun factor away when you just see the game's broken and some strategies are way better or with enough luck you cannot even lose.
Not sure I get the criticism about balance. The game is a race to achieve the goals, so it’s ok if some are worth more than others. Regarding the hive tiles in particular, it should be pointed out that the stronger ones cost considerably more (2x or 3x) the others. Sometimes it’s better to bypass the strong ones for the cheaper options. Anyway, my friends and I who enjoy meaty games like Age of Steam, Terra Mystica, and Agricola, initially found Apiary off putting and shallow, but as we dug in, we found it to be highly enjoyable engine building/racing game with plenty of interesting decisions and good tension. Worth checking out…just dig in a little and I think you might be surprised.
One extra honey isn't a huge deal, you're going to be clawing for carve tiles anyway. I wouldn't call it a race at all that definition could apply to every euro game.
This is specifically different. This is much more a race than most euros because players have agency in bringing the game to an end. It's not a fixed number of rounds. In fact, one strategy I've seen exploited to great effect is to rush the end game before other players have a chance to crank up their engines. ..but, regardless, I'm not convinced that rewarding a player for collecting the honey to get this tile and acquiring the queens favor to exploit it breaks the game when this tile is in play.
Two things, maybe Stonemaier have a problem with their excel sheet and they confuse the points putted in the tiles? Second, those this game high reviews mean many critics are being bought like Disney and other companies do with like IGN, Rottenbullshit?
Have you tried learning English? I find it very useful when trying to write comments. And nobody buys critics. If they did, you bet Disney would have paid for high reviews on the Marvels, but that's obviously not the case because it's a demonstrably stupid idea.
@@lintgamer558 Which part? The original commenter has a minimum of 5 errors in his comment, making it very difficult to read and understand. And he also promotes a bizarre "paying critics" conspiracy theory which has been repeatedly debunked.
as i said before i enjoy this one. and its definitely not doing anything new. but it is taking very well recieved mechanisms and bringing them together in a new way, that works. i think the system has a lot of flexibility. i think its fun. i think it leans into proven well recieved ideas and mixes them up in a new way. whether its balanced or not isnt something i can speak to in the amount of plays ive had. ive never felt like there was only one way to win though. also while ive wanted the game to end sooner its always been because i thought it was best for me at the time and not because my engine was "done" per se. best of the year overall? not for me. but my favorites arent your favorites. Voidfall, City of the Great Machine, Deliverance, Scarface 1920, and Hegemony probably round out my top 5 of '23. id still give this one a 7 or 8. easy ruleset, high variability, variable paths to victory, and all the little nice touches. was looking forward to this one. thanks for the video.
I really liked this one. I agree that it is a hodgepodge of known mechanisms, but I really like how everything comes together. It ends before you want it to (which I find a plus) & MANY of the tiles feel overpowered but are mechanically balanced. That’s my favorite part.
I'd argue they are not mechanically balanced at all, this is a trope of SM games even before the likes of Tapestry. And it doesn't end before you want it to, I get to a point where my engine is done and I want it to end but it won't end.
No chance. He may not be the best game designer but he's a good business man, he knows how to get people excited and spend their money. Let's not forget Viticulture World 🤔
I don’t think it’s as bad as that. There are a few items that might be overpowered, but they’re part of the modular content. There’s so much content, they can easily removed without putting a dent in gameplay.
It's a pleasure watching reviews like this. I'm becoming allergic of the very good or fantastic kind of reviews. No always agree, but votes always well reasoned. Great work, mc and hny!
Thank you so much, this is how I roll - honest thoughts, never giving in to hype or buzz or well known names on the label.
Even my favourite games only get played 3-4 times a year. If I play this twice a year it will continue to feel fresh each time and that works well for a game of this length and depth. I'm happy with it.
That's fair enough!
We had a lot of Apiary played at our recent con. The game ending thing you mentioned is directly opposite to what I’ve experienced and seen though player counts will impact that. One way you compete in this game is by playing chicken over the pacing ie deliberately bumping or not bumping others and that’s usually what we’ve seen ie someone pulls out a combo that forces game end when they’d sneakily finished their personal objective.
Agree the dance tiles are useless and yes there is a spot for them in the insert! Hidden Under some other stuff.
Jamey has been more obsessed with balance recently after Tapestry but fortunately not too much as that sometimes crazy swinginess is actually something I like about Stonemeier (Viticulture had it too). Tapestry is still a stone cold favourite and seems infinitely replayable due to the variety that makes it swingy. Let’s see if the replacement civ mats cure every balance issue in the game but I doubt it, not actually sure it’s possible!
Thank you Luke. I fully agree with your views on SM. Reminds me a little bit of the trajectory of Days of Wonder which made a nice recovery with their latest hits.
Great review. As a fan of your regular reviews and exactly the same 3 (three - and on these I have everything except WS fan-art birds) SM games, I am glad you confirmed my initial thought on this one - and yes, I couldn't "see the BUZZ" on this one either. Glad I can save money. I also have cooled on Kickstarter and new games like you.
Still got Viticulture, Scythe and Wingspan, but those days just don't seem to be repeating any more for SM. I want something to break out and be different and unique and special, but it just ain't happening!
@@TheBrokenMeeple So agree with you.
Dance tiles go in the slot under both the cards and planet tiles.
Least I can make sure it's packaged nicely for another! :D
When the bees bump the Meeple and break it, the Meeple powers up to the next level.
I heard that the “Isle of Cats” board game was very good…I mean like the “Cat’s pajamas”
I also heard that “Apiary” was also great…I mean like the “Bee’s knees”
Sadly, I heard the board game “Dog Park” was not the “Dog’s Bollocks”
Dog Park was pretty meh, a lovely theme, but not much gameplay.
Try Spot or Good Puppers
You the man, thanks for saving me some money here. Dont buy into the hype without watching the broken meeple!
👍🏽😁 For sure! Always check multiple sources before diving in!
😂 who else skips direct to ‘Bad things’? That’s all I care about. Like a balm to my soul.
He he 😁😁😁 it contains the most important points to be honest!
By now chatGPT would desing a SM Game. Quirky one word name + 2 out of 3 main mechanics (action selection, worker placement or resource convertion) + a secondary quirky mechanic thats popular (bump workers, power cards, hidden roles, action rows, etc). Done. I still have scythe, euphoria and I like Tapestry. But they seem creatively bankrupt (and when they try, they fail, like pendulum).
Still got Viticulture, Scythe and Wingspan, but those days just don't seem to be repeating.
Tbf doing "nothing new" with subtle yet crucial fixes could be much preferable to heavily flawed breakthroughs. Now, whether SM does that or not...
Maybe just change the reward for teaching a dance from a queen's favour to 4 victory points
Now on this we can agree
When i heard how you felt on the podcast i already knew id be saving my money
There is a bespoke place under the cards for the dance cards. Love your stuff Luke, I personally enjoyed this game, getting it at the Stonemier Champion price of less than £50 helped. A decent game, 7.5/10, lots of variety and it comes down to a choice on how you maximise your points.
Variety in what the end game goal is but it's basically what honey tiles and cards you find at the end of the day, not to mention you're spamming the same 3 locations over and over again.
I never said GOTY, that I do agree with.
I got this during an insane online Christmas sale here in America. I was able to stack a $10 off $50 coupon on top of free shipping and a 20% off all board games daily advent offer from Miniature Market. So, I got the game for $39. A steal of a deal.
I think this one looks good/not great. I have friends who have played it and enjoyed it, but also agreed that had it not been a Stonemaier production, they would have found it mostly just ok. It isn't all the original, to me, but does have nice artwork and of course solid production value. I have so many worker placement games in my collection, most I would rather play, like the aforementioned Garphill Games. I dropped Champion this year and I actually really like Expeditions, but this one was a pass for me.
Why does being a Stonemaier production bump it up?
@@peterevensen Because generally speaking Stonemaier productions contain quality productions, artwork and rulebooks. Often on the the more deluxe side of standard retail board games. For my friends I suspect, as for me, Stonemaier dropped Viticulture and Scythe two of the better board games on the market, although this was during the Stonemaier KS phase.
But Luke, didn’t you hear every game is phenomenal?
Sometimes it feels like you're twisting yourself up looking for complaints and issues. The examples of imbalance in the carve tiles is a case in point. On one hand you complain that the queens favor track is nickel and dime points not worth chasing. Then on the other hand the tile that pays points for going up that track is overpowered. Not saying many of your points are without merit. Just saying at times you contradict yourself.
I rarely expect you to give a positive review of particularly popular/hyped games. You seem to me to be a bit of a contrarian. But I do love your reviews and how you systematically dissect games to support your conclusions.
Going up the track by itself, yeah not worth it. But when you double its value for little effort , that's a different story. Nothing contradictory there.
And no twisting, SM games generally get the balancing aspect messy, need we bring up Tapestry?
And the problem with over hyped games is that they are promising the world and fail to deliver. Occasionally a hyped game delivers (Earth, Art Society, Hegemony) but many times it won't. That's the danger of hype and the review industry.
You want positive, don't worry, one is coming 😁
@@TheBrokenMeeple Luke I like your reviews and style. While I disagree with some of your conclusions here I respect your opinion.
I found Apiary allowed for many paths to success due to the interaction within the tiles and cards. It does a good job of steering players in different places. Stonemaier does have balance issues throughout its library. But in this case it's mostly good.
90 euros does seem steep. But it's Stonemaier games, so I am not surprised by the price. But just like Expeditions, we'll be skipping this one too mainly because of the price and the lack of time to play.
It's more reasonable outside of Essen but yeah I saw people queuing like sheep to get it for 90 Euro before even testing the game.........I mean...............the hell??
Oooh
It’s sounds like Luke’s pronunciation of the game is finally falling into place…lol…good on you mate!
I googled it before recording! :P
I'm was just in the neighborhood, wanted to say beside 'hello' and 'great review', that there's nothing obvious in the fact that you're actually respond to comments..
You don't need to respond to this one though :)
Just want to show my appreciation..
Shine on!
Jokes on you, I'm responding 😁 thanks for the kind words and hello to you! 🖐️
Sooo glad I saw this episode before I bought it. It just confirmed my fears of purchasing an ok game for that much money.
Glad it helped!
It's actually a very good game. Or do you let other people make all your decisions for you?
As long as they consider multiple views and then make their own decision, that's what matters. And it's not a good game but others will agree/disagree.
@@PurpleSmurfProds "confirmed"
(7:42) Apologies if someone has already posted, but conversion tiles sit in recess under card deck
In the summary you say the game can be come repetitive. This could then become boring on multiple plays I guess, however on the flip side whilst I mostly play games multiple player on club nights where this might be a problem there is a game that I would never play on a club night but is by far my most played game with my wife - Castles of Burgundy. In theory this could be classed as repetitive, however it does have two or three routes to victory and they are balanced enough to make you are always in with a chance whichever route you take, but equally you could also end up losing if the other person has a good run of tile placing. With over 100 plays it is still not boring even though individual plays must be pretty similar to previous games. Are there games where you feel being repetitive is compensated by other factors and does Apiary potentially fall into that category. Are there any games that you might class as repetitive that you are happy to get back to the table?
I agree with your comments on Stonemaier balance issues, but then you do tend to get a lot of variability with faction selection / choice. I sold Tapestry shortly after acquiring it on its original release a few years ago. I have now just repurchased it along with all expansions in recognition of the ongoing attempts to balance the game including a release of replacement faction cards / tiles in the near future (I think). Not every company would provide that ongoing support to a game. I’m hopeful an Expedition expansion improves the base game as I like the Scythe world. Pendulum and Red Rising were definitely not great though.
The problem with things like Tapestry is that the treatment they have done is exactly the same as a live service game for video games. Where the company issues out a subpar game with issues and then spends years fixing it which requires either more cost from the consumer or more patience. And Tapestry to this day is still an unbalanced mess for the most part, but many are cool with that.
Perhaps I ought be grateful that Zatu and Yodel lost my copy and decided to do sod all to fix it.
Ahem
How do you feek about undergrove?
Not played im afraid
The "Dance tiles belong under the " research" cards in the rectangular space.
People are saying that - didn't see that space for some reason, but it just means the next owner can have a neater box! :D
What makes the solo one mark higher? Is it the length/lack of downtime?
Partially given that there isn't much interaction here anyway but also because the imbalances don't matter to the AI.
Makes sense, thanks.
To me, it answers the question "What if Honey Buzz was actually fun?"
haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that game was just 'ok'. I guess I didn't get the 'buzz' around it...
Well, kicking bees out of business school and telling them to conquer space ramps up the theme some. I can play both solo, and did, and do like both.
glad i held off picking it up!
Glad it helped you decide!
I usually really like your content, but this episode you are going in on this game. Something that you could add to your reviews is a “what can an expansion do to fix it?” Section. This give a different way to talk about negatives.
It's not my job (or any reviewer) to tell a designer or publisher how to fix the problems with their game, nobody else does this. If the game has issues we explain what they are and why they are issues to us. I wouldn't buy a game knowing it was bad in the expectation that they will fix it later. That's what video games do with live service games and look how busted that system is.
Negatives are negatives, and too many people shy away from being honest with those negatives, sweeping them under the carpet or passing them off as unimportant.
I really enjoyed playing this game. For me, it's a solid 7.5. Show me a game that brought something completely new to the table regarding worker placements?
Architects of WK was pretty unique when it came out. As is Tzolkin and also Whistle Mountain.
Games don't always have to do new things. Many times, I'm happy if they just make the game smoother, or tighter.
Apiary added rules overhead for no added fun or interest.
A feast for Odin, Raiders of the North sea
Some of your criticisms on balance are a bit contradictory. For example, you complain about queens favor not being worth doing because the effort is to much for the points and then you criticize queens favor if you get a certain carve you double your queens favor and basically win the game. You then blast that carve being worth 25 points which is the highest point tile in game as being op. But then you criticize queens favor maxing out at a measley 25 points. So when I take all the criticisms of Queens favor it seems decently balanced especially in a game with high variability
Alone the Queen favour isn't worth it but doubling its value for one single tile is the other extreme of the coin
Hibernation track does not matter much? Huh, they have decided most of my games.
No control over ending the game? Bumping your own workers, anyone?
Explore, Advance, rinse repeat? Huh? You can pick up resources from Seed cards, from Hibernations, from Rest actions. Explore is fine, but wouldn't the better players try to generate resources in more "organic" ways and not have to "waste" turns doing nothing but grabbing resources? Playing a game sub-optimally and then griping about limited strategic depth ....?
Agreed, the theme is ridiculous.
Farms give you "nothing else to show for it"? RIght, except for the income generated on every rest action.
Retinue tile ... the designer directly responded on BGG regarding the calculations that went into that scoring tile, but just go ahead and run your "Stonemaier games are imbalanced" shpiel ... the fans love it! Earlier in the video, you said that advancing far on the QF track takes great sacrifice, but now you treat it as if it's a piece of cake, and that anyone who can grab that Retinue tile can just waltz to victory. Come on, now.
The differential on the hibernation track is barely anything compared to the points earned elsewhere. I've yet to have a tight scoring end.
And how many turns do you think it will take to bump enough workers to get say 2-3 hibernation tokens out especially if let's say you're left with only 1-2's?
Resting which you shouldn't do too often if you can help it unless you have a butt-ton of farms and even then you're limited on how many you can even activate. You want a few resources, just send the Queen Bee out.
I never said it was a piece of cake, I said it will take a decent chunk of your game. But if that decent chunk of your game is 50 points by itself, then it's a frigging gold mine. I'll be curious to read his defence of that tile and whether he's seen a game lost with it.
Glad we at least agree on the theme! :P
And yes SM games are generally imbalanced - even the good ones!
Really apreciate your willingness to be honest, you and boardgamebollocks are top on my "but what do these peeps think" list. You mentioned Euphoria was okay, but have you played the tweaks offered by Ignorance is bliss expansion?
I don't think I have actually. Apiary is getting way too much love by people I think lately. One called it innovative which makes zero sense.
@@TheBrokenMeeple if people love it thats cool. If they have $90 to "invest" thats cool too. Sharing your thoughts regardless of the consequences is true to this video as Ive already read all your disagreers comments so far. As a fellow investor and creator Im glad I get to hear and see yours for free 🤘. I only have access to euphoria from a friend but I still think you should check out the expansion as it may increase your enjoyment of it. Also I know you dont ask for review copies but SM gives then out regardless of what reviewers say about them 🤔
@nib71286 Rarely yes, he has a big list apparently. I've had one notification saying I could have something but it was completely random and at a time where there was no new releases so it was an entirely wasted request. Yet the main players and friends of SM get exactly what they want when they want it.
@@TheBrokenMeeple luckily for us we arent trying to be stonemaeirs friend but just be honest and help others with our honesty, even if it doesnt bring us joy to do so, sometimes it is painful 🤷♂️, but Jamey has said that they like to send review copies of older games to creators to keep those things in the spotlight. If you like Euphoria better than Apiary, Id say Ignorance is bliss is worth the reach out if not just paying for the thing itself, it is certainly cheaper than Apiary. Maybe they will send you euphoria with ignorance is bliss if you promise to send apiary to someone else in your area who reviews stuff 🤔
You are contradicting yourself on some opinions. For example: You're saying that the Queen's track is useless because it's a lot of work compared to Seeds and Honey tiles but after 5 minutes you're saying that the queen's track with that one Honey Tile in combination is the most broken aspect of the game because it gets you 50 points. You have to decide which one is true and not just pick and chose what it's convenient at a particular time.
I've explained to others as many have misunderstood but I'll restate here. I'm not saying the combo is broken because it's suddenly easy. It's busted because it's 50 points which for many is half their score in the game. No other tile can score you 25 points in the game solo, they usually cap realistically at 12, absolute max 16. Getting to the end of the track for 25 isn't overly worth it. 50 is a bit of a step up.
25:38 LMAO! The wokeness of that guy is just spot on!
Certainly fits doesn't it? 😁
This one sounds incredibly outdated mechanic-wise. Uplevelling workers has been done before and better in the far euro-past (Lancaster e.g.).
NOthing new features in this for sure.
Yes so “outdated”. Whenever a game repeats a mechanism that was in a prior game, that game is “outdated”.
??????????
For me it's more the feel of the game, nothing in it feels different from other similar games, so why play this one? Why not wish for more innovation. This game is the definition of "playing it safe"
I hate unbalanced games so much. It takes the fun factor away when you just see the game's broken and some strategies are way better or with enough luck you cannot even lose.
What would you recommend as an alternative?
Many games, this one isn't unique in worker placement and there are far better worker placements out there.
what microphone do you use?
Shotgun rode video mic pro
Not sure I get the criticism about balance. The game is a race to achieve the goals, so it’s ok if some are worth more than others. Regarding the hive tiles in particular, it should be pointed out that the stronger ones cost considerably more (2x or 3x) the others. Sometimes it’s better to bypass the strong ones for the cheaper options.
Anyway, my friends and I who enjoy meaty games like Age of Steam, Terra Mystica, and Agricola, initially found Apiary off putting and shallow, but as we dug in, we found it to be highly enjoyable engine building/racing game with plenty of interesting decisions and good tension. Worth checking out…just dig in a little and I think you might be surprised.
One extra honey isn't a huge deal, you're going to be clawing for carve tiles anyway. I wouldn't call it a race at all that definition could apply to every euro game.
This is specifically different. This is much more a race than most euros because players have agency in bringing the game to an end. It's not a fixed number of rounds. In fact, one strategy I've seen exploited to great effect is to rush the end game before other players have a chance to crank up their engines. ..but, regardless, I'm not convinced that rewarding a player for collecting the honey to get this tile and acquiring the queens favor to exploit it breaks the game when this tile is in play.
I’ve played this a bit more specifically with the Retinue tile in play. I agree this tile is a bit overpowered for its cost. Good catch!
@@Drewkas0 exactly v😅👍🏽
Well, it can be officially said that this video will be a buzz kill for many. 😅
🤪
A Stonemaier game that is borderline "broken" and unbalanced??? ... color me shocked.
I know right? :P
Two things, maybe Stonemaier have a problem with their excel sheet and they confuse the points putted in the tiles? Second, those this game high reviews mean many critics are being bought like Disney and other companies do with like IGN, Rottenbullshit?
Or they just really like the game...
Have you tried learning English? I find it very useful when trying to write comments. And nobody buys critics. If they did, you bet Disney would have paid for high reviews on the Marvels, but that's obviously not the case because it's a demonstrably stupid idea.
@@PurpleSmurfProds What are you talking about?
@@lintgamer558 Which part? The original commenter has a minimum of 5 errors in his comment, making it very difficult to read and understand. And he also promotes a bizarre "paying critics" conspiracy theory which has been repeatedly debunked.
@@MrPorko2c Dice Tower reviewed Apiary 3 weeks ago though. The big channels do review Stonemaier games.
as i said before i enjoy this one. and its definitely not doing anything new. but it is taking very well recieved mechanisms and bringing them together in a new way, that works.
i think the system has a lot of flexibility. i think its fun. i think it leans into proven well recieved ideas and mixes them up in a new way. whether its balanced or not isnt something i can speak to in the amount of plays ive had. ive never felt like there was only one way to win though. also while ive wanted the game to end sooner its always been because i thought it was best for me at the time and not because my engine was "done" per se.
best of the year overall? not for me. but my favorites arent your favorites. Voidfall, City of the Great Machine, Deliverance, Scarface 1920, and Hegemony probably round out my top 5 of '23. id still give this one a 7 or 8. easy ruleset, high variability, variable paths to victory, and all the little nice touches.
was looking forward to this one. thanks for the video.
..........Hegemony's awesome.... :-)
Quite generic all together. Apiary? Just after reading it, I already forgot the name.
I wish it was forgotten!
Are you wearing lipstick, Luke?
Nah.
Thanks Luke
I really liked this one. I agree that it is a hodgepodge of known mechanisms, but I really like how everything comes together. It ends before you want it to (which I find a plus) & MANY of the tiles feel overpowered but are mechanically balanced. That’s my favorite part.
I'd argue they are not mechanically balanced at all, this is a trope of SM games even before the likes of Tapestry. And it doesn't end before you want it to, I get to a point where my engine is done and I want it to end but it won't end.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Amazing how many things you can get wrong in one comment.
Tapestry best Stonemeier. Bite me :D
Ha ha no but I'll disagree 😁
I enjoyed this more than my first play of Nucleum!!!!!!! But not my current game of the year.
GOTY I just don't get. People just don't want innovation!
So, basically another overhyped Stonemaier game that needs an expansion + errata to make it work. That company should be out of business by now.
No chance. He may not be the best game designer but he's a good business man, he knows how to get people excited and spend their money. Let's not forget Viticulture World 🤔
True.@@TheBrokenMeeple
I don’t think it’s as bad as that. There are a few items that might be overpowered, but they’re part of the modular content. There’s so much content, they can easily removed without putting a dent in gameplay.
FIRSTTTTT
Bwahahahaha absolutely happy you uploud the video