Credit: @FEIISP Full Video: th-cam.com/video/atXivkQv6u8/w-d-xo.html You can download Dr. El-Tobgui's book, Ibn Taymiyya on Reason and Revelation, here: brill.com/view/title/55796 To find out more about Dr. El-Tobgui's research, visit his Academia page: brandeis.academia.edu/CElTobgui
Ibn taymiyyahs works are vital in arguing against the philosophers, a lot of them think they’re a lot more intelligent than they are. Truth be told if you read some of their ideas and thoughts, it’s pretty clear they have a few screws loose.
Wow Ma Shaa Allaah have never heard anyone put it so Ma Sha Allah well like Dr. Sharif, may Allaah bless him! And may Allaah have mercy on Shaykhul islam Taqi Ud-deen Ibn Taymiyyah
mashāllah, a very clear, succinct explanation of Athari creed. Good to feel affirmed upon what I was raised on in the 1990's alhamdulillah, much appreciate the book link, and if a softcover does come out, i'll buy it inshāllah.
Dr Carl's explanation of Ibn Taymiyyah's understanding doesn't sound too dissimilar to the tafweed of the Ash'aris; however it does seem to contain an element of tashbeeh, which the Ash'aris manage to dispense of entirely.
(1) The Quran describes the "exaltedness" or "highness" of Allah in different ways, as His being high and above, and by describing how things come down from Him, and go up to Him, and by stating that He is above heaven. For example (interpretations of the meaning): (Highness): "… and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [2:255] "Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [87:1] (Above): "And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves …" [6:18] "They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [16:50] (Things coming down from Him): "He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth … " [32:5] "Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Quran) …" [15:9] (Things going up to Him): "… To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it …" [35:10] "The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him …" [70:4]
16 :00 some greek kalam were assumptions and called logic, and then they reinterpreted scriptures. There is Haqiqa or apparent, literal or majaz or metaphorical. 22 :00 - If someone says give me a hand, it doesn't mean literally give me a hand. Don't be tight handed (cheap)... and don't stretch it all (excess in charity) out to point of begging. says ibn Taymiyyah says Words meanings also have a context. 30 :00 - Its haqiqah acc. to context. some say he is nominalist, or moderate realist... acc. to plato there is ideal essence that comes to life, aristotle says essential humaness of humans have. 40 :00 - even though they are both human are separate (or did he say they are all dependent on Allah), sounds like Qadariyah, that creation is independent? says no universal Hand... (hand of Adam?) don't assume there is "(universal) Essence", Everything that has a hand has a hand proper to it. difference between Man'aa, and haqiqa, know the the Maa'ana is true for Haqiqah. 50 :00 - We can't know the reality. some later Asharis said Allah can't Love and Hate? Then its like saying humans exist so therefore can God exist? this is why word are to be understood in context. So the shi'a just go into say Does God exist or non existant etc, via negativa. so use corporeal usage of language, some things in common in seen another between seen and unseen like angels like both see... or devils see you etc. we know the meaning but not the how? 1 :00 :00 - So we affirm the meaning but we leave the haqiqah! we have to separate this for other attributes like what we know as physical in language but we aren't to do it. corporealism/porporealism... the ppl who deny the attributes is due to their tasbih, assuming it ( tajsim is a form of tasbih). so its the ppl of kalam that assume tasbih. For them to say the words aren't reliable is attacking Islam, esp. in ghaib which is the basis and this din is complete and defined by itself and complete, not defined by ppl's guesses or whims or its a destructured din at its base level.
Some people are so stupid that after this fairly straightforward position and approach, they are keep commenting with their drivel. Allah already gave us an yard stick understanding his attributes which is nothing like unto him. Using this standard why is it difficult to accept the meaning of his attributes whilst refraining from explaining the modality of it.
So the Quran was sent to us without understanding it’s meaning? And we’ll have to leave the meaning of every attributes of Allah SWT including whether he exists or not?
@@sleeptherapy4811 He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise-they are the foundation of the Book-while others are elusive.1 Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations-but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺-it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason.
You bring up a good point, but I don't think defining a human in *any* non-pragmatic way is as easy as it seems. I mean the traditional definition of the logicians as "reasoning, articulating animal" already seems too broad to encapsulate every possible valid conception of what a human could be.
@@naijiri True, but at least it is a start, and it’s truer than simply abandoning a definition altogether for the sake of nominalism which leads to absurdity. Ultimately, the One Creator can only define because he is Al- Musawwir. The best definition is from the Quran. The human being is a Khalifa fil ard. A representative of the divine on earth, hence why the Angels were commanded to prostrate. Necessarily we’re going to have the traits of our Creator since we are the representatives of the Creator. But naturally are attributes will differ from the attributes of the Creator, but there is a relation. We can be individual creators in our own right, but he is the best of Creators as the Quran states, because He is The Creator of all, and necessarily there can never be any similitude to the creation. Any linguistic similitudes are simply allusions, for the language that we speak is His creation and can never encompass Al Wasi, the All Encompassing. Allah Knows Best, glory be to the Lord of all the Worlds, all Existence.
Thing is, "a start" doesn't logically defeat his argument. At best you can say that both sides are essentially in the same position. Universals are presumed to exist, you can't find them or investigate them linguistically without being post-hoc. This doesn't have any more explanatory power then just saying they are purely conceptual. And he'd probably agree with most of what you said after that, namely, that what we share with Allah is conceptual/only in name and thus does not amount to assimilation.
Allah is 1 & Self Sufficient (Sura Iklas), He made us pairs (Quran 36 :36), sign of His Tawhid. Allah is our Rub so He is our True Ilah, we learn our Rubb via His Siffat. So Tawhid Rubbubiyah is explained by Tawhid Siffat, both are proofs for Tawhid Ilahiya! Allah is above His throne is from His Siffat, His Existance - Middle path view! Allah is not nowhere as the jahimyah and ppl of atheism say, nor is He everywhere like the Asharis and pagans like hindus and christians says! Allah is above His Throne separate from creation encompassed by His Siffat ( Quran 20 : 46), to deny this is the way of Firaun in Quran 40 : 37! To misattribute Allah's Siffat is due to their ignorance of Quran and Sunnah and bad thoughts. ~~~ Ayat for Asharis: Qur'an 16 : 74 - So put not forward similitudes for Allah (Like Asharis on Siffat Qabrriya - don't assume resemblance). Truly! Allah knows and you know not. (Leave how / Takyif to Allah - don't Tahrif / reinterpret Allah's Attributes) Qur'an 2 : 25 - ... Every time they will be provided with a fruit therefrom, they will say: "This is what we were provided with before," and they shall have therein Azwajun Mutahharatun (purified mates) and they will abide therein forever. Tafsir Ibn Kathir : Ibn `Abbas said, "Nothing in Paradise resembles anything in the life of this world, except in name.'' Qur'an 16 : 60 - For those who believe not in the Hereafter is an evil description, and for Allah is the highest description. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. - Links Allah's High description with the belief in hereafter, Jahmi Asharis tatil/denial of affirming Allah's High Descriptions seems linked to their denying seeing Allah which is in the hereafter - Qur'an 75 : 22!
@@hanyprivate6933 Oh don't listen to us when we say Allaah is above the creation, go read these verses in arabic and look what Allaah himself is telling you. "O Haman! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, - the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the god of Moosa …" [40:36-37] ¨ "Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you …?" [67:16] "The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him …" [70:4] "… To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it …" [35:10] "Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Quran) …" [15:9] "He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth … " [32:5] "They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [16:50] "And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves …" [6:18] "Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [87:1] "… and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [2:255]
@@adelow again time, space and directions are creations of allah . Allah is not bound by his creation. Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says, "Allah existed when there was no place, and He is now where He has always been [i.e. without place]." (Al-Farq bayna al-Firaq, P: 333) Imam al-Tahawi (Allah have mercy on him) states, "He (Allah) is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions like all the created things." (Al-Aqida al-Tahawiyya, Point: 38) Problem with u is that u rely on ur literal understanding of islamic texts. I rely on salaf. I've given u two qoutes above of our salaf if u want more here read this central-mosque.com/index.php/Beliefs/is-allah-everywhere-or-is-he-on-his-throne.html
@@adelow Surah Al Baqarah (2:115) - Allah is in all directions وَلِلّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّواْ فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ And Allah's is the East and the West, therefore, whither you turn, thither is Allah's purpose; surely Allah is Ample giving, Knowing If we take this ayah literally then it proves allah is in all directions not above his throne.
@@hanyprivate6933 I'm gonna take the benefit of the doubt and say that you were not lying and probably ignorant of the verse. This verse clearly states that to Allaah BELONGS the east and the west, And muffassiroon have never ever said it the way you say. Look at the last part of the verse. Allaha Wasi'ooon Aleem. From this they know that Allaah speaks of his knowledge and mercy encompassing everything. His sight, hearing, knowledge is everywhere and he sees, hears, and knows everything. Ibn kathir said that this verse means: Wherever you may be, you have a qiblah to face, that is, Al-ka'bah. Ibn Umar and Amir bin Rabi'ah have also stated in At-tirmidhi and An-nasa'i that this verse was revealed to those who are unable to find the correct direction of the qiblah, There is also a hadith of Abu hurayrah Narrating that the prophet ﷺ did a tafseer of this verse saying: What is between the east and the west is the Qiblah
Credit: @FEIISP
Full Video: th-cam.com/video/atXivkQv6u8/w-d-xo.html
You can download Dr. El-Tobgui's book, Ibn Taymiyya on Reason and Revelation, here: brill.com/view/title/55796
To find out more about Dr. El-Tobgui's research, visit his Academia page:
brandeis.academia.edu/CElTobgui
Ibn taymiyyahs works are vital in arguing against the philosophers, a lot of them think they’re a lot more intelligent than they are. Truth be told if you read some of their ideas and thoughts, it’s pretty clear they have a few screws loose.
Wow Ma Shaa Allaah have never heard anyone put it so Ma Sha Allah well like Dr. Sharif, may Allaah bless him! And may Allaah have mercy on Shaykhul islam Taqi Ud-deen Ibn Taymiyyah
mashāllah, a very clear, succinct explanation of Athari creed. Good to feel affirmed upon what I was raised on in the 1990's alhamdulillah, much appreciate the book link, and if a softcover does come out, i'll buy it inshāllah.
Very thorough. You really represent ibn Taymiyyah's (ra) thought well.
Dr Carl's explanation of Ibn Taymiyyah's understanding doesn't sound too dissimilar to the tafweed of the Ash'aris; however it does seem to contain an element of tashbeeh, which the Ash'aris manage to dispense of entirely.
Thank you very much! There was a very informative talk.
Very interesting discussion
(1) The Quran describes the "exaltedness" or "highness" of Allah in different ways, as His being high and above, and by describing how things come down from Him, and go up to Him, and by stating that He is above heaven. For example (interpretations of the meaning):
(Highness):
"… and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [2:255]
"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [87:1]
(Above):
"And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves …" [6:18]
"They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [16:50]
(Things coming down from Him):
"He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth … " [32:5]
"Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Quran) …" [15:9]
(Things going up to Him):
"… To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it …" [35:10]
"The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him …" [70:4]
16 :00 some greek kalam were assumptions and called logic, and then they reinterpreted scriptures.
There is Haqiqa or apparent, literal or majaz or metaphorical.
22 :00 - If someone says give me a hand, it doesn't mean literally give me a hand.
Don't be tight handed (cheap)... and don't stretch it all (excess in charity) out to point of begging.
says ibn Taymiyyah says Words meanings also have a context.
30 :00 - Its haqiqah acc. to context.
some say he is nominalist, or moderate realist...
acc. to plato there is ideal essence that comes to life, aristotle says essential humaness of humans have.
40 :00 - even though they are both human are separate (or did he say they are all dependent on Allah), sounds like Qadariyah, that creation is independent?
says no universal Hand... (hand of Adam?)
don't assume there is "(universal) Essence", Everything that has a hand has a hand proper to it.
difference between Man'aa, and haqiqa, know the the Maa'ana is true for Haqiqah.
50 :00 - We can't know the reality.
some later Asharis said Allah can't Love and Hate?
Then its like saying humans exist so therefore can God exist?
this is why word are to be understood in context.
So the shi'a just go into say Does God exist or non existant etc, via negativa.
so use corporeal usage of language, some things in common in seen another between seen and unseen like angels like both see... or devils see you etc.
we know the meaning but not the how?
1 :00 :00 - So we affirm the meaning but we leave the haqiqah!
we have to separate this for other attributes like what we know as physical in language but we aren't to do it.
corporealism/porporealism...
the ppl who deny the attributes is due to their tasbih, assuming it ( tajsim is a form of tasbih). so its the ppl of kalam that assume tasbih. For them to say the words aren't reliable is attacking Islam, esp. in ghaib which is the basis and this din is complete and defined by itself and complete, not defined by ppl's guesses or whims or its a destructured din at its base level.
Br., you need to not have any gaps between your numbers and colons for timestamps to work. Also, best if in one post only, jzk.
Some people are so stupid that after this fairly straightforward position and approach, they are keep commenting with their drivel. Allah already gave us an yard stick understanding his attributes which is nothing like unto him. Using this standard why is it difficult to accept the meaning of his attributes whilst refraining from explaining the modality of it.
Creatures mind can not comprehend the Creator ! Like bread asking “who baked the Baker?” Leave the meaning to Allah subhanahu wa taala!
So the Quran was sent to us without understanding it’s meaning? And we’ll have to leave the meaning of every attributes of Allah SWT including whether he exists or not?
@@sleeptherapy4811 هُوَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَـٰبَ مِنْهُ ءَايَـٰتٌۭ مُّحْكَمَـٰتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَـٰبِهَـٰتٌۭ ۖ فَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌۭ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَـٰبَهَ مِنْهُ ٱبْتِغَآءَ ٱلْفِتْنَةِ وَٱبْتِغَآءَ تَأْوِيلِهِۦ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُۥٓ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ ۗ وَٱلرَّٰسِخُونَ فِى ٱلْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ ءَامَنَّا بِهِۦ كُلٌّۭ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّآ أُو۟لُوا۟ ٱلْأَلْبَـٰبِ
@@sleeptherapy4811 He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise-they are the foundation of the Book-while others are elusive.1 Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations-but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺-it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason.
The irony is that by saying human beings don’t share an essence, he can’t define what a human being is.
Not really, it's just you're the one drunk on the greek theories of essence and substance.
@@tayloryoung4974 resorting to ad hominem hides your lack of knowledge. Please define then- What is a human being?
You bring up a good point, but I don't think defining a human in *any* non-pragmatic way is as easy as it seems. I mean the traditional definition of the logicians as "reasoning, articulating animal" already seems too broad to encapsulate every possible valid conception of what a human could be.
@@naijiri True, but at least it is a start, and it’s truer than simply abandoning a definition altogether for the sake of nominalism which leads to absurdity. Ultimately, the One Creator can only define because he is Al- Musawwir. The best definition is from the Quran. The human being is a Khalifa fil ard. A representative of the divine on earth, hence why the Angels were commanded to prostrate. Necessarily we’re going to have the traits of our Creator since we are the representatives of the Creator. But naturally are attributes will differ from the attributes of the Creator, but there is a relation. We can be individual creators in our own right, but he is the best of Creators as the Quran states, because He is The Creator of all, and necessarily there can never be any similitude to the creation. Any linguistic similitudes are simply allusions, for the language that we speak is His creation and can never encompass Al Wasi, the All Encompassing. Allah Knows Best, glory be to the Lord of all the Worlds, all Existence.
Thing is, "a start" doesn't logically defeat his argument. At best you can say that both sides are essentially in the same position. Universals are presumed to exist, you can't find them or investigate them linguistically without being post-hoc. This doesn't have any more explanatory power then just saying they are purely conceptual. And he'd probably agree with most of what you said after that, namely, that what we share with Allah is conceptual/only in name and thus does not amount to assimilation.
It sounds like Ibn Taymiyyah just gave a rational defense for tafwid
Yeah, but he Affirmed the attributes
@@ibrahimmohammedibrahim9273
How does this not lead to mysterianism? What's the meaning of Allah's hands?
Allah is 1 & Self Sufficient (Sura Iklas), He made us pairs (Quran 36 :36), sign of His Tawhid. Allah is our Rub so He is our True Ilah, we learn our Rubb via His Siffat. So Tawhid Rubbubiyah is explained by Tawhid Siffat, both are proofs for Tawhid Ilahiya! Allah is above His throne is from His Siffat, His Existance - Middle path view! Allah is not nowhere as the jahimyah and ppl of atheism say, nor is He everywhere like the Asharis and pagans like hindus and christians says! Allah is above His Throne separate from creation encompassed by His Siffat ( Quran 20 : 46), to deny this is the way of Firaun in Quran 40 : 37! To misattribute Allah's Siffat is due to their ignorance of Quran and Sunnah and bad thoughts.
~~~
Ayat for Asharis: Qur'an 16 : 74 - So put not forward similitudes for Allah (Like Asharis on Siffat Qabrriya - don't assume resemblance). Truly! Allah knows and you know not. (Leave how / Takyif to Allah - don't Tahrif / reinterpret Allah's Attributes)
Qur'an 2 : 25 - ... Every time they will be provided with a fruit therefrom, they will say: "This is what we were provided with before," and they shall have therein Azwajun Mutahharatun (purified mates) and they will abide therein forever.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir : Ibn `Abbas said, "Nothing in Paradise resembles anything in the life of this world, except in name.''
Qur'an 16 : 60 - For those who believe not in the Hereafter is an evil description, and for Allah is the highest description. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
- Links Allah's High description with the belief in hereafter, Jahmi Asharis tatil/denial of affirming Allah's High Descriptions seems linked to their denying seeing Allah which is in the hereafter - Qur'an 75 : 22!
Time and space are creations of allah. Allah doesn't need space or time.
@@hanyprivate6933 Oh don't listen to us when we say Allaah is above the creation, go read these verses in arabic and look what Allaah himself is telling you.
"O Haman! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, - the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the god of Moosa …" [40:36-37]
¨
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you …?" [67:16]
"The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him …" [70:4]
"… To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it …" [35:10]
"Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Quran) …" [15:9]
"He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth … " [32:5]
"They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [16:50]
"And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves …" [6:18]
"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [87:1]
"… and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [2:255]
@@adelow again time, space and directions are creations of allah . Allah is not bound by his creation. Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says, "Allah existed when there was no place, and He is now where He has always been [i.e. without place]." (Al-Farq bayna al-Firaq, P: 333)
Imam al-Tahawi (Allah have mercy on him) states, "He (Allah) is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions like all the created things." (Al-Aqida al-Tahawiyya, Point: 38)
Problem with u is that u rely on ur literal understanding of islamic texts. I rely on salaf. I've given u two qoutes above of our salaf if u want more here read this central-mosque.com/index.php/Beliefs/is-allah-everywhere-or-is-he-on-his-throne.html
@@adelow Surah Al Baqarah (2:115) - Allah is in all directions
وَلِلّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّواْ فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ
And Allah's is the East and the West, therefore, whither you turn, thither is Allah's purpose; surely Allah is Ample giving, Knowing
If we take this ayah literally then it proves allah is in all directions not above his throne.
@@hanyprivate6933 I'm gonna take the benefit of the doubt and say that you were not lying and probably ignorant of the verse. This verse clearly states that to Allaah BELONGS the east and the west, And muffassiroon have never ever said it the way you say. Look at the last part of the verse. Allaha Wasi'ooon Aleem. From this they know that Allaah speaks of his knowledge and mercy encompassing everything. His sight, hearing, knowledge is everywhere and he sees, hears, and knows everything.
Ibn kathir said that this verse means: Wherever you may be, you have a qiblah to face, that is, Al-ka'bah.
Ibn Umar and Amir bin Rabi'ah have also stated in At-tirmidhi and An-nasa'i that this verse was revealed to those who are unable to find the correct direction of the qiblah,
There is also a hadith of Abu hurayrah Narrating that the prophet ﷺ did a tafseer of this verse saying: What is between the east and the west is the Qiblah
"Niggardly"!? cmon man.
It just means stingy lol
May Allah reward you