Have you ever plugged your amplifier into power in a music venue or practice space only to be met with a loud HUM that isn't there when you play at home? You could be experiencing Mains Ground issues, or even Ground Loop Hum from interconnected audio devices. Fortunately there are ways to eliminate the problem without calling in a spark to rewire the venue... Morley Humno - thmn.to/thoprod/568049?offid=1&affid=367 This video contains product supplied by Morley More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure #humno #groundloop #scienceofloud More from CSGuitars: Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/csguitars Join CSGuitars Discord - discord.gg/csguitars Buy CSGuitars Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store Website - www.csguitars.co.uk Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk ____________________________________________________________________ *Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for CSGuitars at no additional cost to you.*
Yea it wasnt me but they had one piece plugged in an extention cord hittin another wall socket away from the socket the rest was plugged into. That was 2 different breakers and I think the one was from a sub panel . Me sittin right in front of my problem knowin and Colins video came across my channel feed. Well I listen to what he had to say and his statement made me second guess and not the right path... He needs to stop callin the negative wire in a signal cable ground that throws crap in the way too and another misnomer he said this solves your ground loop problem but its a filter for noise so it dont solve the problem it simply filters the noise. I bought this crappy behringer 2 interface mixer. Its usb to the pc. And the signal from my control room output I use that for monitor. Well when the computers on turn up the amp one third its got a whine. It seems it wasnt there to begin with. I can unplug the usb and no whine. Or put the computer to sleep or turn it off and no whine. All 3 are plugged into the same circuit at one place. It does get on your nerves when you play back and try to hear it louder..i keep thinkin its the cheap computer powersupply . I used to have a cb base setup and if I turned on the computer there it whined across the cb like the power supply in the computer has poor shield . This nux might solve my problem or I need a better power supply for my computer.
My late and absolutely great father that was an electrical engineer for a rather famous U.S. firetruck manufacturer beat Morley by about 25 years. He made me, what I call an electrical noise filter, which it’s really just a ground filter (not a lift) about 25 years ago when I was playing clubs all over the southeastern United States. He made another one for me so I could let our bassist use it. It also protected me from the electrical shock I would feel at some of these seedy clubs dirty electrical systems when I would touch the mic with my mouth doing background vocals. I told him we should manufacture these and make a killing with them. He wasn’t interested. He loved designing firetrucks instead. Oh well. An opportunity missed. But I still have 2 of my fathers designs and they are priceless to me.
Colin, this video is awesome. Id love to see a video addressing the other sources of noise like single coil hum or operating noise floor of amps. Thanks!
I just recieved a paket from china with 80 meters of copper tape in 4 different widths, cost about 20 quid! When shielding with copper tape, check the continuity and don't forget to connect the jack route to the main route. The pickguard musst contact the shielding to complete the loop and this should help against single coil hum on strats!🎸🤘
Hey, Rockers! Anyone here know why I only get ground hum when using my effects loop? I recently got a Marshall Origin 50 W heads. And I’ve learned that they do have an issue with a bit of a volume and tone loss when engaging the effects loop. I don’t know if there’s any way around that. But I can probably EQ it to match whatever the effects loop is taking away. But still, that hum. Maybe this device here will help, I’ll watch a few more videos. I am running a lot of pedals. But I’ve been really careful, and the board would usually stay quiet. But now, also, I’m getting a lot of signal noise, and a really high-pitched sound. Fortunately, my Decimator knocks those out pretty easily.
Love the use of the alliteration at 0:50: "And it can be perplexing to predict precisely when power will present problematically prior to plugging in" 😂😂😂
I bought from Sweetwater. My home was built in 1958 and has no grounded plugs. This little gem fixed all the ground loop issues I had with my amps. Highest recommendation.
Pricey, but if it's anything like Morley products of the past, it will last the rest of your life. Absolutely something any gigging musician should have in their case. Nothing makes you well liked than being more professional and prepared than the venue. Sponsor piece or not, you just taught thousands of people how ground loop works. I'm an electrical engineer and i just watched till the end. Well done, a perfect information!
I have my entire rig on a pedalboard. My preamp, power supply with pedals, cabloader and an 18W power amp are all here and plugged into one extention cord. This video got me to try to listen if I have ground loop issues or not. Took me a minute to remember that I can't possibly have them because all my stuff is powered by 4 adaptors none of which have ground connection
If you test the continuity of the ground circuit part of the Humno with a multimeter set for the diode test function, it will tell you if it's a standard legal ground lift utilizing a bridge rectifier. If it shows a voltage drop with the diode function, or a small resistance of around ten ohms, it is a ground lift circuit...and that's OK if it is well designed and built.
I sent this to TH-camr BigClive, he takes apart circuits that may be questionable and diagrams the circuit, talks about whether they'll kill you or not. He may at least be interested in the ick ground lifters, but also maybe the Morley one.
To solve the issue in my own home studio I ran a wire from the grounding lug on my rack patchbay to the nearest radiator, all plumbing is by law here in Sweden always connected to ground. Now as long as all external equipment in use is in some way connected to the patchbay, which is highly likely, no ground loops will ever appear. Playing live you don't have the luxury of figuring this stuff out though...
Hi Colin. hope you look into issues with electronic noise when using guitar near pc/laptop. Passive pickups, connected to usb audio interface, and any mid to high gain presets in vst plugins produces electronic noise, noticable when moving mouse.
@@ScienceofLoudyou would think so but some PCs actually introduce noise into USB interfaces. I had an issue where ground hum from the PC was being injected into the signal cable (not ground) into my DI box. What worked was getting a USB isolator like the iFi defender. Ferrite chokes did not work for me.
I have the alctron hm-2 hum eliminator and it saved me a few times. I live in a country where good ground connections are rare and it performed perfectly.
This is probably the first time I've been so tempted to buy something a TH-camr promoted, that I clicked an affiliate link BEFORE the video was over...
you can also eliminate the ground loop by using an audio isolation transformer. if you ever wired up a transformer for low voltage electronics then it should be the same for sound systems. having an isolation transformer in the audio circuit works too.
$209 AUD, that's crazy, but 100% needed as he said for bar/pub venues, all you ever get is hum, and i run a Revv generator Mk3, and get no hum at home, or practice space. due to it being wired corectly.
You would have thought amp manufacturers would have looked into building these filters in. Would add pennies to the overall cost when applied to mass production.
The owner of the property before me, or whoever built the place, hired a competent electrician to do the job properly. These power issues usually arise when buildings get extended or renovated over time and different sparks (or likely people who aren't sparks, but can do it cheaper) add on to an existing system. You'd be surprised how much electrical work is bodge jobs that are lucky to function at all. That's why these problems tend to happen a lot in music venues, but not so much in modern build accommodation.
@@ScienceofLoud I wish you could have seen the nightmare that was the wiring in my home, honestly surprised the place never burnt down. thanks for responding
My home studio is plugged into a single outlet, via a 16 plug surge protector. If I used one of these between the surge protector and the wall, would the rest of the downstream devices, plugged in to that surge protector, then theoretically benefit from this electric noise cancellation?
Added a Tech21 preamp to my Bass rack which caused a major hum which I managed to isolate to the power cord.. bought one of these which worked a treat so would recommend but it's not cheap.
What products would you recommend? Trying to record an electric guitar i have lots of noise. To minimize it i have to find a certain position, i have to face away from computer, hold a guitar in unnatural position (not even 90 degrees, more like 100-110 degrees), any deviation and...noise like in 5:30 in my headphones (monitors off, of course). It is either with single-coiled pickups or humbuckers (the first ones, obviously, worse). I am thinking about getting Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal. That's the main question. Also... ~ I have too much noise when i turn the mix (comp/in) knob towards instrument (1) and a very little headroom for recording, either the signal is too weak or, after moving the gain knob just one little degree, i get distortion, noise and clipping (2). It is either with single-coiled pickups or humbuckers (the first ones, obviously, worse). (1) - waiting for a new interface Topping (could not do anything with PreSonus iTwo or SSL2). (2) - waiting for a new interface and a ground loop breaker usb power injector. For recording with a physical amp (Katana) i plan to get a Morley Humno Noise Eliminator. DI boxes (active and passive) seems like do nothing in my case. Don't have any Gate pedal and not planning because it is tricky and i hardly play heavy music. I have a power conditioner Furman m8x. No noise-cancelling devices for pc or USB ports or 9V supply. All my guitars are in tact, grounded nicely and shielded. Thank you
@@BobGnarley. I did many things. Solved most of old problems…and got a new ones (now it is a computer memory, CPU, processor… with so many plugins, libraries and a DAW load… there is no other way). What made difference: * Electrician finally came after 3 months calling. One outlet didnt have a ground. It helped, but insignifically: the messy, packed outlets cavities and who knows what kind of electrical mess somewhere else, plus things around the house - the main thing. And i asked electrician specifically to fix everything when he installed a new panel and rewired that room. How would obnoxious putin say - “negative progress” ;) It is so hard to find a knowledgable and caring person in any profession. * StudioOne made DAW more compatible with W11. * Bought Arturia MiniFuse 2 interface (big difference, but with a smaller buffers it gives noise…). * Transformator and noise-cancelling devices did nothing. * Anti-Noise/hum plugins did either nothing or damaged the sound badly. They are not meant for that kind of and big noise. * Make sure that you have a good cables and clean ones : one of the short cables i use from guitar effects board had a teeny-tiny sticky thing on the tip - i would never think that it can make so much noise. * Bought a used Digitech RP500 that has (apart from lots of handy settings) a ground loop and gate (big-big difference). * And, finally, the most important thing… I already have a hole in the floor behind the computer for ethernet and a speaker cable (for turntable), so i widened it and got a thick cable (for external/outside use) through from power-conditioner to the outlet in the basement (so, the power outlet is now 5 feet bellow and 18 feet away from all equipment). * Got the picture? Now draw yours, using my “brush techniques” ;) I hope it will be nice :) PS. If you decide on a new interface, be careful with that praised Toping: i’ve ordered it on Ali, after submitting the payment ive noticed a weird address; i wrote them the right/actual/default address..did it 3 times for 3 days - no answer, and then they wrote me that the item was shipped to … “Denis 3 lakes Wisconsin” (yes, thats it!)…After 3 months of lies, waiting, fighting i got my money back. Thats another “stroke of experience” ;)
Hum/added noise comes from many places: the mains, your cables, your pedal power supplies, and possibly your guitar. I'll address the first three. This is a cool product that'll help with hum from the mains. Morley/EB Tech also make a great passive Hum Eliminator with four 1/4" jacks on two channels with and without XLR. Those will eliminate any hum picked up through your cables. And to kill the extra noise added from your pedals, add a switch-mode power supply like a Cioks DC-7 to power all of your pedals, if it's not enough, add a Cioks 8 for more power. Just "isolated" power supplies are not enough and most are garbage, they have to specifically be switch-mode if you want consistent results.
I can't say good enough things about Morley / EB Tech and Cioks, just do it. A Cioks DC-7 can power something like ten Cioks 8s if you're a pedal hoarder who needs 23 delays running simultaneously. On a serious note, I have a DC-7 and 8, which has 15 outputs. I actually power about 20-ish things including my more power-hungry Boss ES-8 and Digitech Drop, doubling up on some more standard powered pedals and it's still noise free.
I had a possibility to be listened when one of my then home towns businesses was investing into their new esports-studio and I told the electricians to wire up the main studio and control room with star grounding. The guy goes "eh, what?" and I drew the idea for them, that you take small groups of sockets (2 or 3x2 sockets at most) and for every group you pull the electric cables, with grounds all the way to the main breaker box and there and ONLY THERE you connect the grounds together at one single point. This all but eliminates buzzes and hums that are result of ground loops or result of interference from other equipment spitting stuff to the ground wire (switching powersupplies) that most AV-equipment these days rely on to be somewhat clean or low impedance to ground. Groundloops themselves are a bit of a !#¤ to solve just by wiring, but star grounding helps a TON because it helps to ensure that all devices in one group have the same ground reference and all the groups have the same between them and that the lowest impedance path for the ground currents is the ground from the breaker box, not through some other equipments ground. And if there's ever a situation that some equipment is bothersome, you can just move it to the next group and all the noise goes away because the interference finds lower impedance path from the star grounding point back to the ground and doesn't want to take path all the way back to some other equipment. That job costed like 300€ more in material and i think an hour more in work, but there was never, EVER any interference from other equipment and electricity in that studio was very VERY silent through that one year I was there as a technician :) If every venue out there was wired properly, we'd have less of these issue. It's not that expensive if you do it when the place is built or when it's remodeled, but it's expensive AFTER that if you need it to be done...
i really didnt think you could get a ground loop if you plugged into the same strip (as there is ultimately one path to ground). I wish this video was longer!
I got to experience what a bad ground can feel like first hand. Playing live means depending on others to do their job because there just isn't time to double check everything yourself. (I was just a weekend warrior but I played pretty steady from '65 to the mid 80s doing lead, bass, rhythm and sound) We had a job where I hadn't had time to check my mic myself and our soundman had all the levels from the job before so he only ran the monitors up to volume using the feedback trick (run it up to the point that the mic is wanting to feedback without anything going on and then back it off to tweak later). I was using a mic with no foam windscreen and when I stepped up to the mic to start singing I swear a spark jump out to meet my lips! I managed not to go down but when we finished the song I said, "Whow!! That was a bad one... Did you see the lights dim?" Our bass player said, "I hate to tell you this, but the lights only dimmed for you."
Putting components in the mains Earth wire is going to compromise your safety just like disconnecting the Earth. Can you measure the resistance between the Earth pins at either end of this device? Or run a PAT test on an amplifier with the Humno in circuit?
I'm hesitant to buy one just in case at $130+, but is there a way to tell if noise you're getting in an amp or even a direct box is actually ground hum and that this would help? Also, if all my audio equipment (amps, boxes, DI box, etc) is all on the same power strip, would putting this between the strip and the wall outlet stop ground hum on all devices on that power strip, or could the ground looping happen between devices on the strip itself?
The ground loop can happen between the devices even if they are all on the same strip. What causes the ground hum is the fact that the 2 amps share a ground at 2 points (one in the ground outlet and the other in the ground of the cable as demonstrated in the video). The way you get rid of the hum is to disable the ground in one of the 2 points. So to disable the grounds SAFELY, you can either get the humno and plug it in to one amp, or you can get a DI box and a female to female XLR adapter and ground lift and use it between your signal cables.
I believe I might have an issue with the pre-amps in my audio interface causing hum. Unfortunately it uses a laptop-style power cable so the Humno isn't going to work for it... Any other recommendations for UK plugs?
Great video I’ve already got a furman power conditioner. Wondering if there would be a benefit to run one of there nohums into every amp/PS independently
For those who don't know, power conditioners DO NOT STOP ground loops. This is only really necessary if you have 2 grounds connected together that are both connected to the mains (wall outlet) ground. So if you have a pedal power supply that uses only a 2 prong connection with an amp with 3 prongs, this isn't really necessary. However, as a producer, this can be useful because if you use a DI box into a mixer/PC as both use 3 prong connections. If you're not a producer, this could be useful for when you're BiAmping.
At a typical performance, I usually have a multi input electrical channel strip with six inputs. I typically plug my amp in there and any effects. Would I use this Humno between the power strip and the wall or between my amp and the power strip?
it's important to understand that POWER CONDITIONERS DO NOT STOP GROUND LOOPS. Power conditioners protect your equipment and also attenuate EMI/RFI. The benefits are basically the same if you use them together. You get the removal of the ground loop AND the benefits of the power conditioner. It won't improve your tone, unless your current tone is plagued with ground loop hum.
I think I need this for my studio/office set up, never mind my guitar setup Whenever my right screen turns on, my studio speakers end up humming & it is so annoying. I might just get a few of these for my screens & speakers
I want to comment on this because a few months ago, ground loops plagued my life. I'm a music producer as well. Your screen being on can cause hum because the IIRC, the LEDs generate EMI which can be picked up by pickups. This can be resolved pretty easily by just recording guitar away from your screen. If you are using a gaming PC tower, you should turn off any strobe lights/LEDs when recording. Ground loops are caused by multiple grounds connecting to each other. For non audio apps, this isn't a problem, but plagues us producers especially. Instead of getting a humno, you can separate the grounds of the amp and your PC by using a DI box with a ground lift. It's much cheaper. This next part was my biggest hurdle to getting rid of the noise. Connecting the PC to an audio interface, then connecting those to powered speakers or an amp through a DI box still introduced noise, even if I put DIs on all of the ins and outs of the interface. And this one is the most wild thing. Some PC towers introduce ground hum into the signal through their power supply which travels through the ground in the USB connection. You can't just cut the ground wire in a USB as it will not register a connection. For this, you have to buy a USB isolator like the iFi defender. It may also work if you plug the humno into your PCs PSU but I haven't tried that yet. Good luck!
@@SleepingLionsProductions my setup gives hum even when no instrument is plugged in. It’s quite a weird one I have a macbook plugged into 2 32” QHD displays. I then have a focusrite 2i2 that goes straight into the mac, which also outputs audio to 2 KRK monitor speakers. The mac, the 2 screens & the 2 speakers all have their own power supplies. So yeah, there’s plenty of ground to give hum. Weirdly though, the speakers don’t give off any hum when just the left-hand screen is turned on & doing stuff. It’s only when I turn the right-hand screen on that the KRKs start to hum
@@rikflix4636you might be able to get around the issue by using a Beringer Hum Destroyer for your speakers. That's the cheap solution. IMO you should look into USB isolators anyway, cuz PC ground is always a pain to work with.
5:30 this is the exact noise that has plagued me for so damn long now. I use a heavy noise gate but the second you add any kind of dynamics or let a note fade .. it's painfully obvious. Also it's a persistent noise not one resulting from gain so pretty sure I have this exact problem lol The worst thing is im not even using any kind of crazy setup.. it's literally outlet---> PC ---> Focusrite solo interface ----> Guitar. So have no idea where a ground hum is coming from... best guess is it is the USB cable taking power from the power supply unit of the PC causing it somehow.
I just tried the HumNo... for me it did not solve the problem sad to say. I have close to no hum/buzz on clean channel or with the pedals attached via the FX loop. But if i i use the Ultra Gain (Marshall DSL5CR) i get a loud "buuuuuuuzzzzzzzz" and/or if i engage my SoulFood Overdrive pedal i get this loud buzz. Tried different outlets in my house, same issue.... arghhhhh just so frustrating....
That's the distortion amplifying the noise floor of your signal. You want to use a noise gate to shut off the noise floor reaching the amp when the signal level drops below a certain volume threshold. Poor quality cables and guitar wiring can also increase the noise floor, so look at replacing anything that is substandard. Single Coils with distortion will have a lot of noise, using humbuckers instead will eliminate much of that. Humno is for ground loops and mains ground issues - it will not fix your problem because the noise you are experiencing is being generated in the signal chain.
Hi Colin! I have a question for TATA: why there are so many basses with active onboard preamp/EQ and no guitars with this feature, and on the contrary there are many guitars with active pickups and almost no basses with those?
What basses are you looking at...? Fender basses (the biggest and most popular bass brand in the world) have passive pickups in the absolute majority of their lineup. Are you looking mainly att basses specifically for metal? If so, that's your answer right there - many bass players in metal want active pickups because of the higher output, which often suits the style/genre better than low output pickups.
@@MrGul That's part of my question. There are no active pickups in these basses, it's passive pickups with active onboard preamp/EQ. Try to search basses with two humbucker pickups and you hardly find couple models without battery
Enter Japan where no outlets have ground connections apart from your laundry machine. Aaaand I’m pretty sure the building I’m living in is old enough to not to have GFIs installed either…🎉
I bought a morley hum exterminator specifically for this old Tech 21 Trademark 120, plugged her on in and boom it was a problem with the amp itself. probably the transformer or power amp from what ive heard online even though im a pure novice to amp maintenance of any sort. that being said that cantankerous behemoth lives in my closet now waiting for the day for me to either punt it or get it fixed- I guess the hum eliminator works though?
There are some niceties with the Tech-21 gear that can make them prone to hum. They actually mention this in the amp user manuals. You can cure some of it with the XLR ground plug they sell. Also judicious use of buffered pedals on the input can also go a long way to shutting them up.
NEVER REMOVE THE EARTH PIN FROM THE MAINS PLUG! People do it on the assumption that at least one other piece of equipment is connected to the safety conductor. But if that piece of gear with the earth pin removed develops a live-to-chassis fault, that current will take all available paths and FRY any equipment whose signal ground it uses! It's not just a health hazard - it's a wallet hazard too! I suspect the way the lead works is like a lot of these small form factor ground-loop eliminators. The safety conductor will be run through a couple of anti-parallel silicon diodes. Since these won't conduct until there is 0.6 volts across them the safety conductor (earth/ground) will effectively be an open circuit to the circulating audio currents, which would be lucky to exceed 100 millivolts. When a real fault current flows the voltage is much higher, like in the order of 240 volts, that the diodes most definitely *will* conduct. The issue here is that you hope that the diodes remain intact until the fault current has popped the breaker! And should this device ever have to pass such a fault current, it's probably toast and should be thrown out. It's a bit of a legal grey area (and not so grey with some electrical codes) whether interrupting the safety conductor with diodes is actually allowed. Which is probably why makers of these kind of things are coy about their schematic. The toroid is a red herring. Although it probably forms part of a common mode filter. This will do nothing for an actual ground loop, but it will help filter out spikes etc on the mains from motors turning on etc. It is better to eliminate ground loops on the signal path by using audio transformers. If it must be done on the mains side a mains isolating transformer is better and safer than these diode hacks. One more thing, hum is not always caused by a loop. It can be induced. It might be perhaps two pieces of equipment stacked on one another. The sensitive gain stage of one being directly below or above the power supply section of the other one. Or it might just be that the shield is broken on one of the audio leads, particularly unbalanced leads.
A ground loop most likely won't manifest as a high pitched whine, its likely your issue is being caused by something else and this product wouldn't be the solution.
Colin, I have a question for you (and any of the fine persons in the comments section). I want to buy a tube amp through which I can play both electric guitar and bass. I have a Suhr Reactive Load Box and a Two Notes Torpedo Cab M+ with a ton of IRs I like. I own various guitars, each of the most popular Gibsons and Fenders actually, and a Fender P-Bass and Jazz Bass. I also have too many pedals, but most of which I like and use. Anyway, the point of my question is that I want to get an amp for both bass and guitar. I have been looking at a 50-watt 1968 Fender Bassman but it will cost me $2,000. I could sell some gear but I would prefer not to, and would like to get something a bit closer to $1,000 to 1,200-ish. I would also like to avoid getting two amps (my room is cramped already), and also avoid Solid State because I have never owned a tube amp and that's my top priority--I want to know what the tube fuss is about before I die and I don't live somewhere where it is easy to go test a bunch of amps at like a Guitar Center or whatever. I am not a gigging or professional musician, just an amateur who writes and records his own music and has a bit more money than sense, but not an excess of either. Is this an idiotic quest or can it be done?
I use my EHX mig 50 tube head for both bass and guitar, but you would need to make sure you get a bass speaker cabinet. I can’t recommend the mig enough
@@andvgeo2253 Thanks, I've heard good things about it but didn't know it was OK for bass. It's now on the bucket list ^^ I ended up pulling the trigger on the Bassman and I couldn't be more pleased with it. It's fantastic and I think I get the tube amp hoopla now. As someone who had always used modellers, they are definitely not good enough yet. Tube amps are champ.
Not THAT was a really, really useful video. I thought I had ground noise, when, as a matter of fact, I have 60 cycle hum... since my noise gate completely silences (when not playing). No one told me that before. And I've seen quite a lot of videos on cutting noise from the guitar sound. Thank you!
Worse than everything in a venue using the same ground are venues that have more than one power drop. This normally shows up when the FOH mixer is far away enough from the stage to end up on the second power drop.... sometimes there is no hum but your powered FOH speaker stops working.... Oh it has a transformer-less class D amp and has just blown up . I do not think this device would help that. In this case a 1:1 transformer on the balanced lines with the signal ground lifted is required. (all amplifiers and other gear retain their grounded power of course) In more normal ground loop situations such as you demonstrated, a 200 ohm resistor in series with the ground line in your audio patch cord can be effective too, and maybe cheaper. Yes grounding is a problem.... And no I do not want to rely on my patch cord for my safety ground.
Need a detailed explanation here: Is it still considered unsafe if only one of the amps has the ground prong removed? It will still be connected to ground via the send/return cable going to the other amp right?
Do you really want to rely on thin instrument cable shielding which isn't rated to carry that kind of current to protect you if the chassis became live? Because I wouldn't. I'd want the big earth cable directly mounted to the chassis to do the job.
Also, you've got to ask yourself: is it safe to have a mains cable with a disconnected ground pin existing for unsuspecting people to use in other applications?
@@ScienceofLoud I don't know that's why I asked for an in depth insight. It's also worth noting that in our country (Philippines), it is not a common practice to have the electrical outlets have the third hole for the ground. Honestly I couldn't ever remember if I have seen a 3-hole outlet. Most of us use the 3 to 2 prong adapter. What would be a remedy to that situation?
@@dispersemedia that to me is so incredibly sus. I never recommend using cheater plugs as they can be fire hazards if a short ever were to occur. This is why I stopped jamming at a friends house with my amps. His house hasn't been updated since the 50s and he uses cheater plugs for everything. A single short will light that house on fire. If he has a safety ground prong, the breaker would shut it off. Remedy might be to replace the outlet with a GFCI outlet so that if a short ever occurs, it will trip the internal breaker. Not sure how feasible this is in the Philippines tho
Jow about when the amp is quiet when nothing is plugged in but i plug a guitar in depending what direction im pointing in my studio will determine how loud the hum is any suggestions ?
how would i get rid of unwanted noise from an fx pedal. for my case my delay and reverb pedal brings an unwanted ring to my signal chain. the pedal can be powered by either 9 or 18 volts. i’ve tried different cables but so far no luck. if someone can give any ideas. the pedal in question is a seymour duncan dark sun and i love the pedal a lot.
Not enough information at present to give you an answer. Dark Sun is a big digital pedal - how are you powering it? What is your power supply? Is its power daisy chained to other pedals? Are you using it alongside other pedals? Where is it in the signal chain? Are you using it in the FX loop? Are you running it with MIDI? Can you better describe the type of noise you are getting from it?
@@ScienceofLoud all of my pedals are powered by a power supply i bought off of amazon (caline power cp04). also as a side note because i believe its relevant is that there is that slight hum which is why i watched this video. so my signal chain at the moment is, tuner -> noise suppressor(isp decimator x) -> overdrive(earthquaker plumes) -> preamp -> phaser (walrus lillian)-> chorus/vibrato(walrus juiliana) -> dark sun. I believe the two solutions to my problem are getting a hum suppressor for my current preamp (bias rack processor) and moving the dark sun first in the fx loop or get a new pre amp (like the tonex pedal or the new laney ironheart pedal) and also move the dark sun first in my fx loop chain. no i am not running the dark sun with midi at the moment. I leaning towards the latter because i kinda dont want a rack unit anymore and removing a amp head/rack unit makes carrying things much easier.
a ground loop is caused by 2 grounds creating a loop. by lifting the ground on one device will mean if there is a fault then the current will flow to the remaining ground. you could cut open the humno device and see how it is made and reverse engineer it (bigclive if you are reading this buy one and open it up).
If you can't see how two amplifiers connected together and sharing a power strip forms a ground loop as depicted on the diagram at 4:45, then I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you. There is a closed loop of ground connections in which current can flow, rather than two separate paths to ground.
@@ScienceofLoud Thanks for the response. You see I am not an electrical engineer so I am really trying to understand. From what I learned so far, ground loops are created when there are multiple paths to ground with "different ground potentials" like when you plug two amps into different power sockets and then somehow make an audio connection between them, like in a wet-dry configuration ( isn't that similar to what you did, minus the common ground? - I really can't see the difference). So logically thinking without pretending to know everything: if you plug everything in the same outlet using a power strip, everything has common ground. And this is exactly what this guy proposes (tip 4 I think): th-cam.com/video/qAB9LSPpJFI/w-d-xo.html And he's not the only one I saw this. So this is where my ignoramus ass is coming from. Here is another quote from PRECISION DIGITAL: "A ground loop is the flow of current from one signal ground to another because of a voltage differential between the two grounds". Sorry but your 4:45 diagram does not show - to me that knows nothing atleast - where the ground differential resides when both amps are - as you implied with your words and showed in the video and the diagram - on the same path to ground, sharing the same power strip.
I don't really think I've ever connected my amp to a grounded output, well I tested it put it didn't change anything - the hum was the same. So I really, as an electrician wonder, why do they insist in using grounded outlets. The wooden or plastic case can't be grounded anyway. This thing, if it really works, seems usefull. But yeah, you can actually pretty much kill all noise with a noisegate no matter what is said in here.
Actually, it's even easier to kill the more silent noise than the distorted louder noise with a noisegate. So this seems like a total add with disinformation.
From personal experience, if your amp is not grounded properly, you're likely to ground out those stray currents through the mic when you sing too close to it. It gets painful after a while, and it's distracting to get electric shocks through your lips and teeth while you're singing! Don't take the ground off! The PA will be grounded, and electricity will take the route of least resistance to ground itself, your wet mouth, on to a metal microphone!
To each their own, but as a recording musician, this and other ground isolating products are ABSOLUTELY worth the price even if you're not performing. The PC itself can introduce a ground loop, which is honestly really hard to get rid of.
@@Kharnimani yeah. I had an issue where the PC ground was sharing the ground of my audio interface via USB. Because I have multiple PCs connected to each other, the humno couldn't fix it and the power supply (I think) was injecting some ground noise into my signal cables so I couldn't get rid of it via DI box. This is apparently a common problem and I had to buy a USB isolator that separates the ground of the PC and my interface. This was my hardest and most frustrating ground loop hurdle
@@andvgeo2253 power conditioners are not ground loop eliminators. You can have these things plugged into your Furman but if you have a ground loop, it will still cause hum. I know. I bought a Furman when I was trying to find the source of my ground loops
So I have atrocious ground loop hum on my amp's dirty channel when I use a cable, but not when I use wireless for some reason. Someone told me it was because the wireless pack is buffered, so I plugged my guitar into a buffer pedal and then cabled into the amp and it still hummed atrociously. I bought this "Humno" product from Morley on Sweetwater and guess what? It made absolutely zero difference. Thanks Sweetwater for easy returns.
Sounds like a grounding issue in the wiring of your guitar. The wireless system obviously doesn't connect the ground of the amp to your guitar, but the cable does. It's got nothing to do with a buffer. Check for grounding faults in your guitar. Humno is not a solution for your problem - it is designed to tackle mains ground issues and ground loops from connecting multiple devices together.
Have you ever plugged your amplifier into power in a music venue or practice space only to be met with a loud HUM that isn't there when you play at home? You could be experiencing Mains Ground issues, or even Ground Loop Hum from interconnected audio devices. Fortunately there are ways to eliminate the problem without calling in a spark to rewire the venue...
Morley Humno - thmn.to/thoprod/568049?offid=1&affid=367
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Yea it wasnt me but they had one piece plugged in an extention cord hittin another wall socket away from the socket the rest was plugged into. That was 2 different breakers and I think the one was from a sub panel . Me sittin right in front of my problem knowin and Colins video came across my channel feed. Well I listen to what he had to say and his statement made me second guess and not the right path... He needs to stop callin the negative wire in a signal cable ground that throws crap in the way too and another misnomer he said this solves your ground loop problem but its a filter for noise so it dont solve the problem it simply filters the noise. I bought this crappy behringer 2 interface mixer. Its usb to the pc. And the signal from my control room output I use that for monitor. Well when the computers on turn up the amp one third its got a whine. It seems it wasnt there to begin with. I can unplug the usb and no whine. Or put the computer to sleep or turn it off and no whine. All 3 are plugged into the same circuit at one place. It does get on your nerves when you play back and try to hear it louder..i keep thinkin its the cheap computer powersupply . I used to have a cb base setup and if I turned on the computer there it whined across the cb like the power supply in the computer has poor shield . This nux might solve my problem or I need a better power supply for my computer.
My late and absolutely great father that was an electrical engineer for a rather famous U.S. firetruck manufacturer beat Morley by about 25 years. He made me, what I call an electrical noise filter, which it’s really just a ground filter (not a lift) about 25 years ago when I was playing clubs all over the southeastern United States. He made another one for me so I could let our bassist use it. It also protected me from the electrical shock I would feel at some of these seedy clubs dirty electrical systems when I would touch the mic with my mouth doing background vocals. I told him we should manufacture these and make a killing with them. He wasn’t interested. He loved designing firetrucks instead. Oh well. An opportunity missed. But I still have 2 of my fathers designs and they are priceless to me.
Dope
could you share it? it may save lives.
That’s so cool!
Colin, this video is awesome. Id love to see a video addressing the other sources of noise like single coil hum or operating noise floor of amps. Thanks!
I second this idea! 👍
I just recieved a paket from china with 80 meters of copper tape in 4 different widths, cost about 20 quid! When shielding with copper tape, check the continuity and don't forget to connect the jack route to the main route. The pickguard musst contact the shielding to complete the loop and this should help against single coil hum on strats!🎸🤘
Hey, Rockers! Anyone here know why I only get ground hum when using my effects loop?
I recently got a Marshall Origin 50 W heads. And I’ve learned that they do have an issue with a bit of a volume and tone loss when engaging the effects loop. I don’t know if there’s any way around that.
But I can probably EQ it to match whatever the effects loop is taking away.
But still, that hum.
Maybe this device here will help, I’ll watch a few more videos.
I am running a lot of pedals. But I’ve been really careful, and the board would usually stay quiet. But now, also, I’m getting a lot of signal noise, and a really high-pitched sound. Fortunately, my Decimator knocks those out pretty easily.
Love the use of the alliteration at 0:50:
"And it can be perplexing to predict precisely when power will present problematically prior to plugging in"
😂😂😂
I bought from Sweetwater. My home was built in 1958 and has no grounded plugs. This little gem fixed all the ground loop issues I had with my amps. Highest recommendation.
This video was almost good... the was this tiny bit in the middle where the name of product was questioned... that bit could have been better!
Pricey, but if it's anything like Morley products of the past, it will last the rest of your life. Absolutely something any gigging musician should have in their case. Nothing makes you well liked than being more professional and prepared than the venue.
Sponsor piece or not, you just taught thousands of people how ground loop works. I'm an electrical engineer and i just watched till the end. Well done, a perfect information!
literally made zero difference on hum for me.
@@KodyXXVll likely not a ground loop then. What's your setup? Got some old caps in your amp power supply failing? Cheap pedal supply?
you can get an 8 socket ground hum remover for the same price from WAudio though. useful for also conditioning the power going to pedals/pedal PSU
Dude, honestly your channel has the most technically relevant guitar-related content in all TH-cam, thanks for sharing 😎
Definitely need to get my hands on one of these. CSGuitars solving issues I didn't even know I had yet. Legends!
I am so glad you are showing a Palawan sticker on the Victory amp. Being a Filipino, it makes me proud!
I have my entire rig on a pedalboard. My preamp, power supply with pedals, cabloader and an 18W power amp are all here and plugged into one extention cord. This video got me to try to listen if I have ground loop issues or not. Took me a minute to remember that I can't possibly have them because all my stuff is powered by 4 adaptors none of which have ground connection
Thank you for the quick dive into ground loops. Very informative!
If you test the continuity of the ground circuit part of the Humno with a multimeter set for the diode test function, it will tell you if it's a standard legal ground lift utilizing a bridge rectifier. If it shows a voltage drop with the diode function, or a small resistance of around ten ohms, it is a ground lift circuit...and that's OK if it is well designed and built.
I sent this to TH-camr BigClive, he takes apart circuits that may be questionable and diagrams the circuit, talks about whether they'll kill you or not. He may at least be interested in the ick ground lifters, but also maybe the Morley one.
To solve the issue in my own home studio I ran a wire from the grounding lug on my rack patchbay to the nearest radiator, all plumbing is by law here in Sweden always connected to ground. Now as long as all external equipment in use is in some way connected to the patchbay, which is highly likely, no ground loops will ever appear. Playing live you don't have the luxury of figuring this stuff out though...
remind me not to lean in the radiators next time im there lol
Colin, check out the Lehle P-Split! Passive, ground switch, phase switch, DI out and isolated transistor out, can use it as a reamp box too!
Also affects sound, especially high frequency
WOW! Finally there is a solution for the ground hum in my flat! 🎉🎉🎉
I like the passive aggressive review. Never change man.
Hi Colin. hope you look into issues with electronic noise when using guitar near pc/laptop.
Passive pickups, connected to usb audio interface, and any mid to high gain presets in vst plugins produces electronic noise, noticable when moving mouse.
Ferrite chokes are probably the solution in those situations
@@ScienceofLoudyou would think so but some PCs actually introduce noise into USB interfaces. I had an issue where ground hum from the PC was being injected into the signal cable (not ground) into my DI box. What worked was getting a USB isolator like the iFi defender. Ferrite chokes did not work for me.
0:52 I caught that clever bit of writing I must say. 8 'p' words in a row, well done!
I have the alctron hm-2 hum eliminator and it saved me a few times. I live in a country where good ground connections are rare and it performed perfectly.
This is probably the first time I've been so tempted to buy something a TH-camr promoted, that I clicked an affiliate link BEFORE the video was over...
you can also eliminate the ground loop by using an audio isolation transformer.
if you ever wired up a transformer for low voltage electronics then it should be the same for sound systems.
having an isolation transformer in the audio circuit works too.
That's what the product he's demonstrating is.
$209 AUD, that's crazy, but 100% needed as he said for bar/pub venues, all you ever get is hum, and i run a Revv generator Mk3, and get no hum at home, or practice space. due to it being wired corectly.
Beautiful alliteration, sir 'perplexing to predict precisely when power will present problematically prior to plugging in' lolol
You would have thought amp manufacturers would have looked into building these filters in. Would add pennies to the overall cost when applied to mass production.
Colin!!! at 3:40 you mention your studio is wired up properly? could you please do a video on how you did this?
Cheers from Ayrshire!
The owner of the property before me, or whoever built the place, hired a competent electrician to do the job properly.
These power issues usually arise when buildings get extended or renovated over time and different sparks (or likely people who aren't sparks, but can do it cheaper) add on to an existing system.
You'd be surprised how much electrical work is bodge jobs that are lucky to function at all.
That's why these problems tend to happen a lot in music venues, but not so much in modern build accommodation.
@@ScienceofLoud I wish you could have seen the nightmare that was the wiring in my home, honestly surprised the place never burnt down. thanks for responding
My home studio is plugged into a single
outlet, via a 16 plug surge protector. If I used one of these between the surge protector and the wall, would the rest of the downstream devices, plugged in to that surge protector, then theoretically benefit from this electric noise cancellation?
Glad you’re back!
Added a Tech21 preamp to my Bass rack which caused a major hum which I managed to isolate to the power cord.. bought one of these which worked a treat so would recommend but it's not cheap.
smart design. great demonstration
I like this, I might get one, I often bring an outlet tester with me if I think the power might be sketchy.
Henning needs like 1000 of those!
😅
What products would you recommend? Trying to record an electric guitar i have lots of noise. To minimize it i have to find a certain position, i have to face away from computer, hold a guitar in unnatural position (not even 90 degrees, more like 100-110 degrees), any deviation and...noise like in 5:30 in my headphones (monitors off, of course).
It is either with single-coiled pickups or humbuckers (the first ones, obviously, worse).
I am thinking about getting Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal.
That's the main question. Also...
~ I have too much noise when i turn the mix (comp/in) knob towards instrument (1) and a very little headroom for recording, either the signal is too weak or, after moving the gain knob just one little degree, i get distortion, noise and clipping (2). It is either with single-coiled pickups or humbuckers (the first ones, obviously, worse).
(1) - waiting for a new interface Topping (could not do anything with PreSonus iTwo or SSL2).
(2) - waiting for a new interface and a ground loop breaker usb power injector.
For recording with a physical amp (Katana) i plan to get a Morley Humno Noise Eliminator.
DI boxes (active and passive) seems like do nothing in my case. Don't have any Gate pedal and not planning because it is tricky and i hardly play heavy music. I have a power conditioner Furman m8x. No noise-cancelling devices for pc or USB ports or 9V supply. All my guitars are in tact, grounded nicely and shielded.
Thank you
Did you get a USB ground loop breaker and did it work? I have the exact same problem on my PC. Might have to try one out
@@BobGnarley. I did many things. Solved most of old problems…and got a new ones (now it is a computer memory, CPU, processor… with so many plugins, libraries and a DAW load… there is no other way).
What made difference:
* Electrician finally came after 3 months calling. One outlet didnt have a ground. It helped, but insignifically: the messy, packed outlets cavities and who knows what kind of electrical mess somewhere else, plus things around the house - the main thing. And i asked electrician specifically to fix everything when he installed a new panel and rewired that room. How would obnoxious putin say - “negative progress” ;) It is so hard to find a knowledgable and caring person in any profession.
* StudioOne made DAW more compatible with W11.
* Bought Arturia MiniFuse 2 interface (big difference, but with a smaller buffers it gives noise…).
* Transformator and noise-cancelling devices did nothing.
* Anti-Noise/hum plugins did either nothing or damaged the sound badly. They are not meant for that kind of and big noise.
* Make sure that you have a good cables and clean ones : one of the short cables i use from guitar effects board had a teeny-tiny sticky thing on the tip - i would never think that it can make so much noise.
* Bought a used Digitech RP500 that has (apart from lots of handy settings) a ground loop and gate (big-big difference).
* And, finally, the most important thing… I already have a hole in the floor behind the computer for ethernet and a speaker cable (for turntable), so i widened it and got a thick cable (for external/outside use) through from power-conditioner to the outlet in the basement (so, the power outlet is now 5 feet bellow and 18 feet away from all equipment).
* Got the picture? Now draw yours, using my “brush techniques” ;)
I hope it will be nice :)
PS. If you decide on a new interface, be careful with that praised Toping: i’ve ordered it on Ali, after submitting the payment ive noticed a weird address; i wrote them the right/actual/default address..did it 3 times for 3 days - no answer, and then they wrote me that the item was shipped to … “Denis 3 lakes Wisconsin” (yes, thats it!)…After 3 months of lies, waiting, fighting i got my money back. Thats another “stroke of experience” ;)
“Thanks” for concern and help, Science ;)
I hear terrible noise when I start playing, and it stops when I stop. What can I do?
Hum/added noise comes from many places: the mains, your cables, your pedal power supplies, and possibly your guitar. I'll address the first three. This is a cool product that'll help with hum from the mains. Morley/EB Tech also make a great passive Hum Eliminator with four 1/4" jacks on two channels with and without XLR. Those will eliminate any hum picked up through your cables. And to kill the extra noise added from your pedals, add a switch-mode power supply like a Cioks DC-7 to power all of your pedals, if it's not enough, add a Cioks 8 for more power. Just "isolated" power supplies are not enough and most are garbage, they have to specifically be switch-mode if you want consistent results.
Thanks for this!
I can't say good enough things about Morley / EB Tech and Cioks, just do it. A Cioks DC-7 can power something like ten Cioks 8s if you're a pedal hoarder who needs 23 delays running simultaneously. On a serious note, I have a DC-7 and 8, which has 15 outputs. I actually power about 20-ish things including my more power-hungry Boss ES-8 and Digitech Drop, doubling up on some more standard powered pedals and it's still noise free.
I had a possibility to be listened when one of my then home towns businesses was investing into their new esports-studio and I told the electricians to wire up the main studio and control room with star grounding.
The guy goes "eh, what?" and I drew the idea for them, that you take small groups of sockets (2 or 3x2 sockets at most) and for every group you pull the electric cables, with grounds all the way to the main breaker box and there and ONLY THERE you connect the grounds together at one single point.
This all but eliminates buzzes and hums that are result of ground loops or result of interference from other equipment spitting stuff to the ground wire (switching powersupplies) that most AV-equipment these days rely on to be somewhat clean or low impedance to ground.
Groundloops themselves are a bit of a !#¤ to solve just by wiring, but star grounding helps a TON because it helps to ensure that all devices in one group have the same ground reference and all the groups have the same between them and that the lowest impedance path for the ground currents is the ground from the breaker box, not through some other equipments ground.
And if there's ever a situation that some equipment is bothersome, you can just move it to the next group and all the noise goes away because the interference finds lower impedance path from the star grounding point back to the ground and doesn't want to take path all the way back to some other equipment.
That job costed like 300€ more in material and i think an hour more in work, but there was never, EVER any interference from other equipment and electricity in that studio was very VERY silent through that one year I was there as a technician :)
If every venue out there was wired properly, we'd have less of these issue. It's not that expensive if you do it when the place is built or when it's remodeled, but it's expensive AFTER that if you need it to be done...
i really didnt think you could get a ground loop if you plugged into the same strip (as there is ultimately one path to ground). I wish this video was longer!
The Revv G8 can be used to deal with ground hum (for the most part) by using it in the 4 cable arrangement, that's my current setup at home.
I got to experience what a bad ground can feel like first hand. Playing live means depending on others to do their job because there just isn't time to double check everything yourself. (I was just a weekend warrior but I played pretty steady from '65 to the mid 80s doing lead, bass, rhythm and sound)
We had a job where I hadn't had time to check my mic myself and our soundman had all the levels from the job before so he only ran the monitors up to volume using the feedback trick (run it up to the point that the mic is wanting to feedback without anything going on and then back it off to tweak later).
I was using a mic with no foam windscreen and when I stepped up to the mic to start singing I swear a spark jump out to meet my lips! I managed not to go down but when we finished the song I said, "Whow!! That was a bad one... Did you see the lights dim?" Our bass player said, "I hate to tell you this, but the lights only dimmed for you."
Putting components in the mains Earth wire is going to compromise your safety just like disconnecting the Earth. Can you measure the resistance between the Earth pins at either end of this device? Or run a PAT test on an amplifier with the Humno in circuit?
I'm hesitant to buy one just in case at $130+, but is there a way to tell if noise you're getting in an amp or even a direct box is actually ground hum and that this would help? Also, if all my audio equipment (amps, boxes, DI box, etc) is all on the same power strip, would putting this between the strip and the wall outlet stop ground hum on all devices on that power strip, or could the ground looping happen between devices on the strip itself?
The ground loop can happen between the devices even if they are all on the same strip. What causes the ground hum is the fact that the 2 amps share a ground at 2 points (one in the ground outlet and the other in the ground of the cable as demonstrated in the video). The way you get rid of the hum is to disable the ground in one of the 2 points. So to disable the grounds SAFELY, you can either get the humno and plug it in to one amp, or you can get a DI box and a female to female XLR adapter and ground lift and use it between your signal cables.
Can you use this thing before pedalboard power?
Using a noisegate, noiseless pickups and the humno. Paradise
I believe I might have an issue with the pre-amps in my audio interface causing hum. Unfortunately it uses a laptop-style power cable so the Humno isn't going to work for it... Any other recommendations for UK plugs?
Great video
I’ve already got a furman power conditioner. Wondering if there would be a benefit to run one of there nohums into every amp/PS independently
For those who don't know, power conditioners DO NOT STOP ground loops.
This is only really necessary if you have 2 grounds connected together that are both connected to the mains (wall outlet) ground. So if you have a pedal power supply that uses only a 2 prong connection with an amp with 3 prongs, this isn't really necessary.
However, as a producer, this can be useful because if you use a DI box into a mixer/PC as both use 3 prong connections.
If you're not a producer, this could be useful for when you're BiAmping.
At a typical performance, I usually have a multi input electrical channel strip with six inputs. I typically plug my amp in there and any effects. Would I use this Humno between the power strip and the wall or between my amp and the power strip?
I am going from a preamp to a power amp to a cabinet and am experiencing a hum. Do I need a Humno on the preamp, the power amp or both?
Wonder if it would cancel out blue Tooth hiss also? From a 710 jbl party speaker?
Will it work for power supply to computer (to isolate it)? Just a crazy thought...
Dude, ground loop hum is what makes playing live so exciting!
YES!! Finally I can play at home when the washing machine is on!
To clarify, what is the benefit of using this independently or simultaneously with a power conditioner?
it's important to understand that POWER CONDITIONERS DO NOT STOP GROUND LOOPS.
Power conditioners protect your equipment and also attenuate EMI/RFI. The benefits are basically the same if you use them together. You get the removal of the ground loop AND the benefits of the power conditioner. It won't improve your tone, unless your current tone is plagued with ground loop hum.
@@SleepingLionsProductions Thanks for that!
I tried a Hum X years ago. It didn't work. I can't see how this would be any different.
I've had noise issues with my Helix floor, ground helps but not completely, I wonder if this could be the ticket?
I think I need this for my studio/office set up, never mind my guitar setup
Whenever my right screen turns on, my studio speakers end up humming & it is so annoying. I might just get a few of these for my screens & speakers
I want to comment on this because a few months ago, ground loops plagued my life. I'm a music producer as well.
Your screen being on can cause hum because the IIRC, the LEDs generate EMI which can be picked up by pickups. This can be resolved pretty easily by just recording guitar away from your screen. If you are using a gaming PC tower, you should turn off any strobe lights/LEDs when recording.
Ground loops are caused by multiple grounds connecting to each other. For non audio apps, this isn't a problem, but plagues us producers especially.
Instead of getting a humno, you can separate the grounds of the amp and your PC by using a DI box with a ground lift. It's much cheaper.
This next part was my biggest hurdle to getting rid of the noise. Connecting the PC to an audio interface, then connecting those to powered speakers or an amp through a DI box still introduced noise, even if I put DIs on all of the ins and outs of the interface. And this one is the most wild thing.
Some PC towers introduce ground hum into the signal through their power supply which travels through the ground in the USB connection. You can't just cut the ground wire in a USB as it will not register a connection. For this, you have to buy a USB isolator like the iFi defender. It may also work if you plug the humno into your PCs PSU but I haven't tried that yet.
Good luck!
@@SleepingLionsProductions my setup gives hum even when no instrument is plugged in. It’s quite a weird one
I have a macbook plugged into 2 32” QHD displays. I then have a focusrite 2i2 that goes straight into the mac, which also outputs audio to 2 KRK monitor speakers. The mac, the 2 screens & the 2 speakers all have their own power supplies. So yeah, there’s plenty of ground to give hum.
Weirdly though, the speakers don’t give off any hum when just the left-hand screen is turned on & doing stuff. It’s only when I turn the right-hand screen on that the KRKs start to hum
@@rikflix4636you might be able to get around the issue by using a Beringer Hum Destroyer for your speakers. That's the cheap solution.
IMO you should look into USB isolators anyway, cuz PC ground is always a pain to work with.
can this be used on pa amps and computers? every time air conditioner compressor kicks on i get a massive pop.🤬🍻
Does this then also eliminate the need for products like a humdinger when using multiple amps?🤔
thumbs up for the plosive alliteration alone.
5:30 this is the exact noise that has plagued me for so damn long now. I use a heavy noise gate but the second you add any kind of dynamics or let a note fade .. it's painfully obvious.
Also it's a persistent noise not one resulting from gain so pretty sure I have this exact problem lol
The worst thing is im not even using any kind of crazy setup.. it's literally outlet---> PC ---> Focusrite solo interface ----> Guitar. So have no idea where a ground hum is coming from... best guess is it is the USB cable taking power from the power supply unit of the PC causing it somehow.
I always appreciate how well your expression sells the seriousness of the conversation when you talk about guitar amps and lethal electric shocks.
"so don't fuck around with this stuff if you don't know what you're doing"
Maybe my all time favorite Colin quote, from the old amp biasing video
Colin saved my life. I tattooed that statement on my forearm so that wisdom is always present no matter what stupid thing I'm about to do.
i think that and isp deciminator g atring will be the perfect combination for high gain amp 🤘
I just tried the HumNo... for me it did not solve the problem sad to say. I have close to no hum/buzz on clean channel or with the pedals attached via the FX loop. But if i i use the Ultra Gain (Marshall DSL5CR) i get a loud "buuuuuuuzzzzzzzz" and/or if i engage my SoulFood Overdrive pedal i get this loud buzz. Tried different outlets in my house, same issue.... arghhhhh just so frustrating....
That's the distortion amplifying the noise floor of your signal.
You want to use a noise gate to shut off the noise floor reaching the amp when the signal level drops below a certain volume threshold.
Poor quality cables and guitar wiring can also increase the noise floor, so look at replacing anything that is substandard.
Single Coils with distortion will have a lot of noise, using humbuckers instead will eliminate much of that.
Humno is for ground loops and mains ground issues - it will not fix your problem because the noise you are experiencing is being generated in the signal chain.
Hi Colin! I have a question for TATA: why there are so many basses with active onboard preamp/EQ and no guitars with this feature, and on the contrary there are many guitars with active pickups and almost no basses with those?
What basses are you looking at...? Fender basses (the biggest and most popular bass brand in the world) have passive pickups in the absolute majority of their lineup. Are you looking mainly att basses specifically for metal? If so, that's your answer right there - many bass players in metal want active pickups because of the higher output, which often suits the style/genre better than low output pickups.
@@MrGul That's part of my question. There are no active pickups in these basses, it's passive pickups with active onboard preamp/EQ. Try to search basses with two humbucker pickups and you hardly find couple models without battery
A guitar with an active pickup does have an onboard preamp. That's what makes it 'active'.
I’ve ordered one today.
Enter Japan where no outlets have ground connections apart from your laundry machine. Aaaand I’m pretty sure the building I’m living in is old enough to not to have GFIs installed either…🎉
I bought a morley hum exterminator specifically for this old Tech 21 Trademark 120, plugged her on in and boom it was a problem with the amp itself. probably the transformer or power amp from what ive heard online even though im a pure novice to amp maintenance of any sort. that being said that cantankerous behemoth lives in my closet now waiting for the day for me to either punt it or get it fixed- I guess the hum eliminator works though?
There are some niceties with the Tech-21 gear that can make them prone to hum. They actually mention this in the amp user manuals. You can cure some of it with the XLR ground plug they sell. Also judicious use of buffered pedals on the input can also go a long way to shutting them up.
NEVER REMOVE THE EARTH PIN FROM THE MAINS PLUG! People do it on the assumption that at least one other piece of equipment is connected to the safety conductor. But if that piece of gear with the earth pin removed develops a live-to-chassis fault, that current will take all available paths and FRY any equipment whose signal ground it uses! It's not just a health hazard - it's a wallet hazard too!
I suspect the way the lead works is like a lot of these small form factor ground-loop eliminators. The safety conductor will be run through a couple of anti-parallel silicon diodes. Since these won't conduct until there is 0.6 volts across them the safety conductor (earth/ground) will effectively be an open circuit to the circulating audio currents, which would be lucky to exceed 100 millivolts. When a real fault current flows the voltage is much higher, like in the order of 240 volts, that the diodes most definitely *will* conduct.
The issue here is that you hope that the diodes remain intact until the fault current has popped the breaker! And should this device ever have to pass such a fault current, it's probably toast and should be thrown out. It's a bit of a legal grey area (and not so grey with some electrical codes) whether interrupting the safety conductor with diodes is actually allowed. Which is probably why makers of these kind of things are coy about their schematic.
The toroid is a red herring. Although it probably forms part of a common mode filter. This will do nothing for an actual ground loop, but it will help filter out spikes etc on the mains from motors turning on etc.
It is better to eliminate ground loops on the signal path by using audio transformers. If it must be done on the mains side a mains isolating transformer is better and safer than these diode hacks.
One more thing, hum is not always caused by a loop. It can be induced. It might be perhaps two pieces of equipment stacked on one another. The sensitive gain stage of one being directly below or above the power supply section of the other one. Or it might just be that the shield is broken on one of the audio leads, particularly unbalanced leads.
Ok, given there is a US product that plug directly into a NA outlet, this thing would still work in a NA circuit right? s=
Yes, this works 120V or 230V for any standard IEC power cable.
Ive been looking at this because my amp makes a high pitched whining sound and was hoping this would be a fix to my problem.
A ground loop most likely won't manifest as a high pitched whine, its likely your issue is being caused by something else and this product wouldn't be the solution.
Wow amazing!
Colin, I have a question for you (and any of the fine persons in the comments section).
I want to buy a tube amp through which I can play both electric guitar and bass. I have a Suhr Reactive Load Box and a Two Notes Torpedo Cab M+ with a ton of IRs I like.
I own various guitars, each of the most popular Gibsons and Fenders actually, and a Fender P-Bass and Jazz Bass. I also have too many pedals, but most of which I like and use.
Anyway, the point of my question is that I want to get an amp for both bass and guitar. I have been looking at a 50-watt 1968 Fender Bassman but it will cost me $2,000. I could sell some gear but I would prefer not to, and would like to get something a bit closer to $1,000 to 1,200-ish. I would also like to avoid getting two amps (my room is cramped already), and also avoid Solid State because I have never owned a tube amp and that's my top priority--I want to know what the tube fuss is about before I die and I don't live somewhere where it is easy to go test a bunch of amps at like a Guitar Center or whatever.
I am not a gigging or professional musician, just an amateur who writes and records his own music and has a bit more money than sense, but not an excess of either.
Is this an idiotic quest or can it be done?
I use my EHX mig 50 tube head for both bass and guitar, but you would need to make sure you get a bass speaker cabinet. I can’t recommend the mig enough
@@andvgeo2253 Thanks, I've heard good things about it but didn't know it was OK for bass. It's now on the bucket list ^^
I ended up pulling the trigger on the Bassman and I couldn't be more pleased with it. It's fantastic and I think I get the tube amp hoopla now.
As someone who had always used modellers, they are definitely not good enough yet. Tube amps are champ.
Is any type of guitar him normal? When I record using vsts sometimes I get some pickup hum.
Amazing Alliterative Action
what about for amps like the Peavey 6505? My power cable is built into the amp and doesn't come out. am I SOL? lol
Outstanding Information!!!
Sincerely
Gerard
Is it a direct box with s fashionable plastic envelope?
Not THAT was a really, really useful video. I thought I had ground noise, when, as a matter of fact, I have 60 cycle hum... since my noise gate completely silences (when not playing). No one told me that before. And I've seen quite a lot of videos on cutting noise from the guitar sound. Thank you!
Worse than everything in a venue using the same ground are venues that have more than one power drop. This normally shows up when the FOH mixer is far away enough from the stage to end up on the second power drop.... sometimes there is no hum but your powered FOH speaker stops working.... Oh it has a transformer-less class D amp and has just blown up . I do not think this device would help that. In this case a 1:1 transformer on the balanced lines with the signal ground lifted is required. (all amplifiers and other gear retain their grounded power of course) In more normal ground loop situations such as you demonstrated, a 200 ohm resistor in series with the ground line in your audio patch cord can be effective too, and maybe cheaper. Yes grounding is a problem.... And no I do not want to rely on my patch cord for my safety ground.
if i plug that before my PSU on my PC would this fix some grounding issues on my interface?
This can be applicable to interface?
Need a detailed explanation here: Is it still considered unsafe if only one of the amps has the ground prong removed? It will still be connected to ground via the send/return cable going to the other amp right?
It will probably fry that amp too. Do not remove the ground prong on any device.
Do you really want to rely on thin instrument cable shielding which isn't rated to carry that kind of current to protect you if the chassis became live?
Because I wouldn't. I'd want the big earth cable directly mounted to the chassis to do the job.
Also, you've got to ask yourself: is it safe to have a mains cable with a disconnected ground pin existing for unsuspecting people to use in other applications?
@@ScienceofLoud I don't know that's why I asked for an in depth insight. It's also worth noting that in our country (Philippines), it is not a common practice to have the electrical outlets have the third hole for the ground. Honestly I couldn't ever remember if I have seen a 3-hole outlet. Most of us use the 3 to 2 prong adapter. What would be a remedy to that situation?
@@dispersemedia that to me is so incredibly sus. I never recommend using cheater plugs as they can be fire hazards if a short ever were to occur.
This is why I stopped jamming at a friends house with my amps. His house hasn't been updated since the 50s and he uses cheater plugs for everything. A single short will light that house on fire.
If he has a safety ground prong, the breaker would shut it off.
Remedy might be to replace the outlet with a GFCI outlet so that if a short ever occurs, it will trip the internal breaker. Not sure how feasible this is in the Philippines tho
Jow about when the amp is quiet when nothing is plugged in but i plug a guitar in depending what direction im pointing in my studio will determine how loud the hum is any suggestions ?
how would i get rid of unwanted noise from an fx pedal. for my case my delay and reverb pedal brings an unwanted ring to my signal chain. the pedal can be powered by either 9 or 18 volts. i’ve tried different cables but so far no luck. if someone can give any ideas. the pedal in question is a seymour duncan dark sun and i love the pedal a lot.
Not enough information at present to give you an answer.
Dark Sun is a big digital pedal - how are you powering it? What is your power supply? Is its power daisy chained to other pedals?
Are you using it alongside other pedals? Where is it in the signal chain? Are you using it in the FX loop? Are you running it with MIDI?
Can you better describe the type of noise you are getting from it?
@@ScienceofLoud all of my pedals are powered by a power supply i bought off of amazon (caline power cp04). also as a side note because i believe its relevant is that there is that slight hum which is why i watched this video. so my signal chain at the moment is, tuner -> noise suppressor(isp decimator x) -> overdrive(earthquaker plumes) -> preamp -> phaser (walrus lillian)-> chorus/vibrato(walrus juiliana) -> dark sun. I believe the two solutions to my problem are getting a hum suppressor for my current preamp (bias rack processor) and moving the dark sun first in the fx loop or get a new pre amp (like the tonex pedal or the new laney ironheart pedal) and also move the dark sun first in my fx loop chain. no i am not running the dark sun with midi at the moment. I leaning towards the latter because i kinda dont want a rack unit anymore and removing a amp head/rack unit makes carrying things much easier.
a ground loop is caused by 2 grounds creating a loop.
by lifting the ground on one device will mean if there is a fault then the current will flow to the remaining ground.
you could cut open the humno device and see how it is made and reverse engineer it (bigclive if you are reading this buy one and open it up).
How was a ground loop created when both of your amps where on the same power strip? I am deeply confused.
If you can't see how two amplifiers connected together and sharing a power strip forms a ground loop as depicted on the diagram at 4:45, then I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you.
There is a closed loop of ground connections in which current can flow, rather than two separate paths to ground.
@@ScienceofLoud Thanks for the response. You see I am not an electrical engineer so I am really trying to understand. From what I learned so far, ground loops are created when there are multiple paths to ground with "different ground potentials" like when you plug two amps into different power sockets and then somehow make an audio connection between them, like in a wet-dry configuration ( isn't that similar to what you did, minus the common ground? - I really can't see the difference).
So logically thinking without pretending to know everything: if you plug everything in the same outlet using a power strip, everything has common ground. And this is exactly what this guy proposes (tip 4 I think): th-cam.com/video/qAB9LSPpJFI/w-d-xo.html And he's not the only one I saw this.
So this is where my ignoramus ass is coming from. Here is another quote from PRECISION DIGITAL: "A ground loop is the flow of current from one signal ground to another because of a voltage differential between the two grounds". Sorry but your 4:45 diagram does not show - to me that knows nothing atleast - where the ground differential resides when both amps are - as you implied with your words and showed in the video and the diagram - on the same path to ground, sharing the same power strip.
I just got one and it did absolutely nothing. Both my Syn-1 and the Synergy power amp to the same power conditioner
I don't really think I've ever connected my amp to a grounded output, well I tested it put it didn't change anything - the hum was the same. So I really, as an electrician wonder, why do they insist in using grounded outlets. The wooden or plastic case can't be grounded anyway. This thing, if it really works, seems usefull. But yeah, you can actually pretty much kill all noise with a noisegate no matter what is said in here.
Actually, it's even easier to kill the more silent noise than the distorted louder noise with a noisegate. So this seems like a total add with disinformation.
From personal experience, if your amp is not grounded properly, you're likely to ground out those stray currents through the mic when you sing too close to it. It gets painful after a while, and it's distracting to get electric shocks through your lips and teeth while you're singing! Don't take the ground off! The PA will be grounded, and electricity will take the route of least resistance to ground itself, your wet mouth, on to a metal microphone!
Ok what's inside that thing, what exactly does it do?
At first I thought "doesn't it need a power supply?" then common sense caught up with me.
I have a hum when i plug interface into my laptop i think this might help.
I love the product, and honestly would support them but its WAY to expensive for what is is, which is probably just a housed isolated transformer.
Nice to have, but it seems tad bit expensive for what it does. Unless you play a lot of gigs in smaller venues, it doesn't seem worth the price.
To each their own, but as a recording musician, this and other ground isolating products are ABSOLUTELY worth the price even if you're not performing. The PC itself can introduce a ground loop, which is honestly really hard to get rid of.
@@SleepingLionsProductions Interesting point, I never thought about that. I suppose it would have the same effect plugged into a pc.
@@Kharnimani yeah. I had an issue where the PC ground was sharing the ground of my audio interface via USB. Because I have multiple PCs connected to each other, the humno couldn't fix it and the power supply (I think) was injecting some ground noise into my signal cables so I couldn't get rid of it via DI box. This is apparently a common problem and I had to buy a USB isolator that separates the ground of the PC and my interface.
This was my hardest and most frustrating ground loop hurdle
You think this is better thank the furman power conditioner?
@@andvgeo2253 power conditioners are not ground loop eliminators. You can have these things plugged into your Furman but if you have a ground loop, it will still cause hum.
I know. I bought a Furman when I was trying to find the source of my ground loops
So I have atrocious ground loop hum on my amp's dirty channel when I use a cable, but not when I use wireless for some reason. Someone told me it was because the wireless pack is buffered, so I plugged my guitar into a buffer pedal and then cabled into the amp and it still hummed atrociously. I bought this "Humno" product from Morley on Sweetwater and guess what? It made absolutely zero difference. Thanks Sweetwater for easy returns.
Sounds like a grounding issue in the wiring of your guitar.
The wireless system obviously doesn't connect the ground of the amp to your guitar, but the cable does. It's got nothing to do with a buffer.
Check for grounding faults in your guitar.
Humno is not a solution for your problem - it is designed to tackle mains ground issues and ground loops from connecting multiple devices together.
So, it's a ground loop isolator?
Have you ever made a video on how your studio is wired?
I wouldn't want the connection hanging mid air between my head and cab, so a longer cable making the connection at floor level would be better IMO
Yeah fr
I sometimes have those issues sometimes when using a stereo pedal with 2 amps
yup, that's another classic way to create a ground loop. Stereo amp rigs would benefit greatly from the Humno.
Recommend something like the Radial ABY pedals or the GigRig humdinger when using a dual amp setup.
This is really cool.. I may need to pick one up! (Yay humming stinger.)
Moo