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Value suggestion of your services: one could look at like similar to the compensation of a realtor. So, how about 5% of value of the RV/ motorhome for a buyback or 5% for the value of the repair performed to fix the issues? A suggestion for food for thought.
I admire your advocacy. However; I think you need to develop a contract type of service for your contacts to pay you. I don’t know that I want to support people who have the money to buy a 800,000 motor coach.
I was considering buying one and now after watching this video, I changed my mind. No way I am gonna spend most of time in the repair shop. I have better things to do. You just saved me $1000,000.00
Exactly. I tell every RVer and potential RVer to not buy a Tiffin. Ever since Leigh took over, their product has tanked. Of course, selling out to Thor didn't help. Thor has not been good for thirty years.
As an engineer I can tell you that this is what happens when the sales department develops a product. We want this next month and of course - cheap. Crappy product is the result.
@@toomanymarys7355 It might well be - depends on what they have been trying to squeeze in to a budget. Quality, if seen in the wrong way, is an added cost to the product.
Close to $1m on an RV. Yikes. I can’t believe there would be any issues with a new unit of that cost let alone a service hassle. Great work. The world needs more people like you. A fair and balanced approach. You are amazing.
I wouldn't go around telling everybody that if I were you. Newspaper "reporters" are nothing more than actors, operatives and ignorant order followers.
@@thorsrensen3162 Exactly. Your comment will be buried but unfortunately there will be a lot of people that have immense buyers remorse because they sunk the cost of a nice house into an rv that's already lost them half a million in depreciation, and will use a few complaints to try to get a buyback. I'm not saying this guy didn't deserve it, but I have watched a few that were being so nitpicky and you could tell they bought something they regretted buying and were looking for an out.
Tiffin will not change because Thor will not change. They will just focus on newbies that don’t know better or get an inspection. I for one are not upgrading my 2013 Tiffin with a newer one. Will drive it until the wheels come off. Then I’ll hang it up. Totally junk being produced. Keep up the awesome job.
QC issues at Tiffin existed prior to Thor's acquisition but the way they were handled was different and Bob Tiffin pretty much made sure that anything that made it to his attention was put right. The out-the-door quality has dropped and it's workmanship, mostly. Too many units being built too quickly, perhaps by too few? The same issue Boeing has - the line move is more important than whatever remains to be completed.
I agree. We have a 2017 Entegra Anthem and would not consider any of the new Class A’s. Our rig was made when quality mattered. Why spend so much more for a new one only to have a cheaper made RV.
Unless you have money to burn (as in a large bonfire) it is wise to question that desire. RVs are marketed to people like seniors in the beginnings of cognitive decline and of a long gone "high trust society" era which is deader than a pickled herring. The companise selling them are not our friends. RV depreciate like a lit firecracker so hunting a high quality used one can net a proven unit for vastly less money.
We are driving our second Tiffin and have been very pleased with both coaches and with the customer service we have received. Our first coach was an Open Road and the one we have now is an Allegro Bus. We haven’t had a lot of issues and those we have had have general been of the user error variety and not to do with quality control. Tiffin has always been very helpful and responsive to us and T here have been a few times when one of their service tech spent hours on the phone helping us run down and correct a minor issue that occurred when we were traveling. During the pandemic when supply chains were such a mess, it took longer to get service because it took longer to get parts. I believe most of the issues occurring now are due to the acquisition by Thor and the changes they brought in.
Way to go Liz!!! Mr Lee Tiffin you need to clean up Tiffin RV production quality, if you want to stay in business. The RV and TH-cam community are huge and get the word out quickly about poor quality products. Liz your services are very Valuable. You need to get a deposit up front from those who request those services. I'm not sure exactly what the amount should be. I hope will be able to get help with that from others here. Maybe 1-2% the value of their rig? You're the BEST Liz! ❤
@@scienceoffreedom Her time, knowledge, experience, work, software and service are very valuable to those she helps to get their rigs repaired or bought back. Also her recording equipment. Sharing this information with the RV community is saving many people from similar situations. That's why some of her videos have a million views.
You nailed it Liz. This is a top down poor culture problem at Tiffin. I will be shocked if Tiffin is able to remedy this and implement a quality control program that sets a new standard before the company is in dire straits. It’s almost at the point right now that Tiffin won’t be able to overcome the negative reviews and the voice of the consumer. Keep up the great work!
Tiffin, more than likely, lives in a mansion that does not leak! So why should he care! I bet you any amount of money, that if he were living in a brand new home that was crumbling around him, Tiffin would be screaming from the rooftops!
I have shown your videos to my neighbors who have been researching Motor Homes including Tiffin. Needless to say, they are off the list of potential manufacturers. They are grateful for your videos.
CONGRATULATIONS LIZ!!! 🎉✨🎈🎊💃👌WOW! What a fantastic service you're providing. I have no idea how much you ought to be charging, but naturally your fees will be structured from 1. Consultation 2. Contacting relevant company and providing feedback 3. Varying amounts depending on what returns the client gets from the company. I've worded that really badly, but I'm sure that you get my drift. SOUTH AFRICA 🌞🌍🦓🥰
Being a grunt all of my life, I can tell you if the top doesn't care, neither will the grunts. Crap literally does run downhill. Tiffen being at the top before being sold, to being last so fast is amazing in itself. Thanks Liz!
A high end RV should NEVER have ANY issue, ever. No quality control. The business doesn't care, that much is clear. People need to boycott these companies. When the CEO does nothing, that says it all right there. The consumer is the deciding factor concerning if a company fails, not the stock holders. If their stock drops to ZERO ,they will take notice. People need to stop investing in crap RV's. Shame on these people for blowing off the consumer. Thank you Liz for doing what you do. You really represent the consumer. It is a SHAME you have to play advocate for us, but we thank you.
Completely agree! People keep buying and they will keep on selling their junk! Their silence speaks volumes. Hopefully, the more that word gets out and sales drop off....they will start paying attention. Shame that the greed of these executives makes them oblivious to how much they are hurting people.
@Brad_Huff right but not straight from the factory dude. A new product shouldn't come with problems standard from the factory. So let's just let them keep lining their pockets and not attend to the people who made them that money. Get real man.
I’m recently retired. My dream has always been to get a large RV of some sort and visit every National Park in the US. However, due to your videos I’ve been re thinking this. I’ll watch more of your vids and then make my decision. A nice cabin in the woods on a river or lake is sounding better and better. Thanks for your videos. BTW, just subscribed
Good job Liz! You are correct the issue is top down at Tiffin. They have put over $60k into our $100k unit and we have spent $23k getting that unit to 8 service centers including the Tiffin Service Center in Redbay. A Vice President for Tiffin told us we needed to sue and then Leigh would help us. That VP stated it was the only way - but it shouldn’t be that way. Leigh allowed us to be onsite for the production of our unit and signed our cabinet. We had several conversations with him in person, email and phone prior to our purchase but when we started to have trouble he wouldn’t respond to our emails, calls or in person visits at Tiffin. Unfortunately Tiffin robbed us of our RV dream. Tiffin could be a top manufacturer if they would do the right thing.
Buy a used Newmar, 2020 or older! From a Mountain Aire to the King Aire there are great quality USED Newmars out there in your price range! Check out RVTrader or the MotorCoach store down in Bradenton Florida, and/or Andrew Steels' channel on here, he does RV sales videos for them! I wouldn't buy ANY new Motorhome today, no matter the manufacturer!! Don't buy any Newmar newer than 2020 because of the covid years and after Winnebago purchased Newmar! Winnebago purchased Newmar in 2019, but let manufacturing run as the old Newmar for 2 years, after that ('21) Winnebago changed the manufacturing process!
@@HoustonRoad Be careful- the Winnebago name has been compromised, too, with its quality much lower than in past years. The company owns Newmar, which so far is very reputable.
I was sorry to learn about this customer’s experience. But I can also say that my wife and I are considering the Newmar London Aire or the Tiffin Zephyr. We had an opportunity to drive both at a recent NIRVC event in Nashville in June. We met Leigh Tiffin who made an extremely favorable impression on us. We also met Bob Tiffin, Leigh’s grandfather. I mention this because my wife and I were, and ARE still convinced that Tiffin will always do the right thing by their customers. Can you point me to an auto/RV manufacturer that is perfect 100% of the time? Absolutely not. These are complex human built large machines (especially in the case of a Class A). ** What matters is what they do when there is a problem.*** In this case Leigh/Tiffin stepped up and did the right thing by doing a buy back. We’ve been on the road in our current Class A since your article came out. In that time we’ve asked Tiffin and Newmar owners what they think of the company’s service on their unit. Hands down Tiffin got the best reviews in our unscientific and informal poll. It disappoints me that someone like you will take a story like this, get the issue resolved (GREAT!), and then proceed to pour gasoline on Tiffin again by appending yet another story with a sensationalized headline. It discredits your advocacy for the consumer and appears to be more in line with promoting yourself and your channel. (And no, neither my wife or I work in the RV industry, nor are we Tiffin/Newmar owners…yet!)
Thank you, Liz for your tireless advocacy! So nice to know that there are decent people putting vendor's noses to the grindstone. Keep that tough love flowing!
Liz, I have agreed to loan my son and daughter-in-law a substantial amount of money {$1,000,000) for the purchase of an RV. He told me last night that they had decided on a TIFFIN coach. After watching your latest video, I just called him and told him the check would not be arriving for a TIFFIN. He and his wife are now watching your channel and will educate themselves. Thank you Liz. The money I'm loaning them was hard earned.
Thats nice of you, they should have done the research and not be starry eyed. And new in the RV world does not mean the best. An older updated country coach or newell is a way better value than a new production coach nowadays
Tell your son to look at used Prevost Marathons or Prevost Libertys. Prevost not only builds the highest quality and most beautiful motorhomes that are mass produced, but they make the only motorhomes I would settle for if I had anything like $1 Million to spend on such a thing. Marathon & Liberty coaches are rebuilt Prevost highway buses that are made to run a million miles and that company has been known for 50 years to make the best highway buses made. A used one 5 years old will be $800K- $1 Million but the quality is impeccable in every detail and that thing will give your son another 20 years, which is why one made in 1993 will still fetch $100K. Their only drawback is their fuel consumption, around 4MPG because it is such a heavy vehicle. But I wouldn't want to buy any motorhome unless I could afford a Marathon or Liberty, which is not likely in this lifetime. Good luck to your son and hope he gets himself a beautiful Marathon coach.
Hello Liz, I am new to watching you and I appreciate you sharing very much. My husband and I are both retired law enforcement. He is also a DAV. We bought a Thor class C from General RV in Canon Ohio. It isn’t a million dollar rig but we saved and saved. It’s been a nightmare from the start. General RV has been the worst customer service ever experience. They just DO NOT CARE once they have the money. The problems we have had and continue to have are endless. Thank you and God bless you.
I also bought from General RV, in Tampa. They are horrible. I bought a brand new 5th wheel and within 7 months, it literally started bowing. After countless times of returning to service, the factory took it back but we were screwed. Traded it for a Landmark, another piece of junk. It’s been sitting in my driveway since last April (at the dealership for 7 months too). Black holding tank fell out on the highway, and yes it was empty. Slideouts rotted, cost me, yes me, over $8,000 to repair.
It’s been over a year that I have been ready for my next RV. Unfortunately, the greed and low quality RV’s the U.S. manufacturers are putting out are disappointing. So much so that I started looking for one outside of the U.S., and I have been blown away by the high quality of the European and Canadian builds compared to ours. And for half the cost. I am either buying a non-US build one or will have one custom made by an independent builder.
There are many issues with US-based productions. Recently Toyota is having major problems with their new trucks because they were built in America. The ones built in Canada are far more better. Toyota is going to have financial trouble now. Same goes for RVs. All of the RVs that started in Canada are so well built that they even survived 35 years or more. Canadian work ethics are so much better than Americans.
When Bob Tiffin ran the show, their product was high quality. I had two of them, and they stood behind them fully. Now that Thor has taken over, they seem to be crappy built and customer blind.
My hubby and I owned a 2014 Tiffin allegro Red 34 ft. We loved it! Since we retired last fall we had to sell since money coming was decreased. Would have loved to keep it. Our issues with the rig were very minimal in comparison to these customers. Never go new!
The only way imo to buy any type of rv is a seldom used, sorted and maintained one. Usually from older folks. There are SO many of these for bargain basement $ it not even funny. Depreciation hit isnt nearly as bad either.
This is why my pickup bed is 8ft, with a Bedrug, cap, porta pot,...not glamping but 0 issues. Ok for a fall, spring overnighter. Best of all....a $hit load of cash for an upscale hotel room that doesn't need any maintenance!
I bought a small Sprinter-based Tiffin that was built during the Covid scare. Unsurprisingly, it had several plumbing, wiring and fit-and-finish problems. The local dealer was useless on the rv's main feature, its new LiFePO4 battery and generator system. Expecting the worst, I took it to Tiffin's Red Bay AL facilities and I was shocked--instead of the usual corporate denials and resistance, I met the most dedicated team of service pros that I've ever encountered. In fact, everyone I met in the town, at Tiffin and in the restaurants and newly restored historic hotel, was pleasant, competent and purpose-filled.
@josephrochefort9989 $800,000 will buy you a nice house depending on what state. At least it has a resale value. As long as Democrats don’t take over again.
A CEO in his 30s who doesn’t care about the company and his customers anywhere near how his grandfather cared. I will never buy any product from Tiffin. But others will.
Yeah, I bet if more people actually knew that the CEO for Tiffin was the 30 something year old grandchild, Tiffin's sales would drop dramatically. Bob Tiffin was likely hungry and fighting to survive in the beginning. I'm sure his grandson knows nothing about struggling to make ends meet or fighting for survival. That's the biggest problem when you have these children who were born on third base and think that they hit a triple. I'm sure Bob could relate to the average person but a 30 something who has been wealthy his entire life cannot understand the struggles of the average man or woman.
There's an old sayin’ Mom & Dad builds the business, the son lives off the business and the grandson destroys the business. A guy like Leigh hasn't built anything, his next generation will have nothing………look at the Vanderbilts.
The thought of spending over $500k on an RV blows my mind let alone doing it without doing research first. The fact these people bought from Tiffin tells me all I need to know. Reminds me of people who buy POS Land Rovers or BMW’s. Takes about 10 minutes of online research to determine spending $60k-$150k on a car that there are better options.
@@vollste If you actually tour them in person, they are beautiful and I'm sure at one point their quality was stellar. It really is too bad to see the family name being destroyed.
Tiffin motorhomes catch much attention on the road. And, I had thought for the right reasons. Apparently, I was wrong to assume Tiffin rigs are the creme de la creme of the exceptional. This lack of quality and customer service spreads fast. Good job helping these people out with your time and channel, Liz.
Companies today only understand two things, BAD ADVERTISING/IMAGE and LITIGATION. In my opinion giving them a BAD IMAGE will get more attention than hidden/quiet litigation. Park your rig outside of the entrance at the manufacturing plant and buy some BILLBOARDS. Cheaper than a lawyer and I guarantee you will get a response. I am a retired marketing and business development consultant. How about a caravan of dissatisfied owners? My suggestion for your work is $1,000 down and 3% of the settlement. Personally, I would charge more than that but it's a beginning.
She doesnt have much bargaining power without an ESQ after her name. People that can blow a mil on a toy ought to be smart enough to solve thier own problems....or hire a kickarse lawyer thats what they are for.
Hi Liz, I have been in Sales and Business for over 38 years. My humble opinion would be a flat fee of 1% to 2% of the total buy back amount. If it’s a case of you getting a manufacturer to do a bunch of repairs then again the owner should pay you a percentage of the overall cost of those repairs. I would suggest a scale based on the overall dollar amount starting at 5000 would be $500 and so on from there. Your time does have a value.
Some Lawyers charge up to $500 an hour and they can’t email the manufacturer CEO or owners directly like Liz does. She needs to get some money up front for her time because if the RV owners don’t get a resolution she wouldn’t get paid for her time spent.
There's a lot of responsibility on the dealerships selling Tiffins. If this many people are having issues with Tiffins, it's impossible for the dealerships to not be aware, and yet they still sell Tiffins. The dealerships are just as guilty as Tiffin. Pressure may need to be applied to dealerships to drop Tiffin until they get their quality under control.
Thought the same thing....where was the quality control in the dealership at the acceptance of this unit and why was it sold in the condition it was in? They are also responsible for this problem.
Liz, Our 2022 34PA went back to Red Bay for 6 months for major warranty repairs that the selling dealer could not do. Tiffin picked it up and delivered it back to me in VA. All repairs were done to my satisfaction. I had spoken to Bob Tiffin multiple times while my unit was getting repaired/reworked. I believe their issue is poor quality control, just pushing these rigs out the door and hoping the selling dealer can make the warranty repairs.
What a great service you are providing. You have a valuable channel with long term credibility. Yes you should get paid. At least $5,000 on a buyback. Good Luck !
Agreed. Still 15 years from retirement but I've been looking at RV's :-) Algorithm recommended this channel and I just subscribed after seeing original video and this followup . Keep it up please !
They’re ALL junk! They pretty much kiss your feet during the buying/persuasion process and once you leave the lot it’s bubeye Felicia! Imagine spending nearly ONE MILLION DOLLARS on a coach and being treated like this!
People with that kind of scratch to buy these things probably just want it out of their lives. Nobody on a fixed income buys expensive motorhomes. When you think of how many nights at a five star hotel you could get for the price of these Elmer's glued up staple boxes, anyone with common sense would just watch videos and never buy one.
You are correct. My brother in law bought a trailer manufactured in Canada for this reason. He had to wait a while for it to be built and he drove to Canada to pick it up. Zero problems.
@@emilcost8613 That's what I do- watch these vids. I'm an older lady who would LOVE to buy the luxe condo on N Lake Shore Drive I could buy with the money this thing costs- 2200 sq ft of majestic architecture in a highly serviced building of impeccable comfort and dreadnaught security with a view of Lake Michigan that even costs less to in taxes, maintenance, and repairs than this thing does. I'd rather buy a couple of dozen nice vacations abroad with $800K spare change in my bank account.
Tiffin is just a word, is not a brand anymore. If they were a brand, they would have kept their integrity. Thanks Liz and I hope you have a wonderful day
My wife and I have been watching a lot of TH-cam to learn about traveling the country in an RV. I really appreciate your channel because you appear to be a very honest individual who wants to help. We had planned to sell our home which has value of more than $1,000,000 and buy a class A. I definitely won’t be buying a Thor or Tiffin RV based on all the complaints I have seen on TH-cam. Now we are leaning toward buying a Brinkley fifth wheel and staying in top level RV parks with full hookup. We figure that will be a lot better than spending a million dollars on a class A that will likely have a lot of issues. A new Brinkley RV, along with a new truck and the hitch for the fifth wheel will cost a lot less that a million dollars and we will have plenty of money left over to stay at the best camp grounds when we travel.
Smart plan but still get a certified RV inspector to do a full review of the rig BEFORE you put money down! Never drive it off the lot until every item has been fixed. If a dealer won't let that happen run away from that dealer and that brand. Good luck.
"The blinkers didn't work." I'm so glad to find someone else who calls them blinkers! People have been pointing that out to me for years. lol. Anyway, thank you for sharing and thank you for what you do.
Subscribed and I'm not even looking for an RV, but I believe what you're doing is informative and valuable and your vids are also fascinating! Going to share your channel with a friend who IS looking for an RV.
Hi Liz. I have toured 2 different rv manufacturers. I asked them how they managed quality and the simple answer is, they don't. I worked at very high levels in international quality assurance for 30 years. These companies are in the same quality position that American car makers were in the 60s and 70s. Shove them out the door and let the dealers fix the problems. That is why Japanese cars grew so quickly at that time. What these rv manufacturers need is a quality assurance program, not quality control by post manufacture inspection. Contrary to popular belief, you can't inspect quality into a product.
What these RV manufacturers need is customer Tort reform w/o lengthy litigation.. Like everything thing else.. all these clowns understand is the bottom line..
Maybe a percentage of the buyback. You’d think these people would kick you back a “reward” without being told considering when they come to you they have exhausted their own abilities.
I don't know about percentage. Many might be in financial distress anyway after all this, especially if they only get repairs and not a buy back or some refund. Perhaps hourly with a minimum rate of so many hours, or a flat minimum rate.
A place I worked at and retired from would have monthly departmental (work center cells) meetings and discuss issues with customer returns or difficulties with manufacturing process. Sometimes other work centers would get involved and we would call these meetings "Best Practices" and the meetings would have minutes taken, and these minutes were reviewed until a solution was reached. It worked, and our ISO9000-ISO18000 showed great results. Seems Tiffin and all RV manufacturers could benefit from taking their customers seriously. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I am so glad that someone is speaking out about how these rigs are built. I've heard such nightmares from folks who have purchased RV's that are slapped together light fast food burgers. They really need to up their craftsmanship and stand by their prolifically expensive products.
Tiffin's response to your second e-mail was rude and dismissive. You'll get more of the same when you e-mail him again, as this is who he is. Thanks for all you do!
My wife and I are in the market for a Class A diesel, Tiffin was certainly a brand we were considering but after seeing what this couple has gone through and the apparent problems currently at Tiffin it’s very concerning. It’d be hard for me to buy a Tiffin and feel like I made the right choice.
I'm with you. I'm retiring soon and now with all the RV quality issues being reported, I decided to stay on the sidelines and just air travel for now. Shame on Tiffin!!!
Liz, you are providing a centralized clearing house for RV issues and RV company lack of customer support and response. Thank you for providing this to people that don't have the viewership to be able to make an impact and to get the manufacturers to respond. Please keep up the good work.
@darrells1806 true...but I'm looking for something that will be stationary, that I can live in full-time. And I want something brand new, and it seems like all the RVs built in the last 5 years are garbage, as an older single woman that is not very handy or mechanically inclined, that's a big no for me. 🤷🏼
An even better option is to make your own RV. There are very few RV manufacturers now who make good motorhomes: most are absolute junk. I'm making my own motorhome from a 40-foot Crown bus, and it is better engineered, better made, more durable and reliable, and just better in every way. Spending six-figure (or more) sums of money on junk simply isn't smart. Mine will have cost me less than $50,000 by the time I'm done, but it will function incomparably better than RVs costing ten times that or more.
Great work. After watching these last few videos about the problems with Tiffin RV's I'll never buy a Tiffin. Shame on Tiffin for causing so much hardship and stress for people.
@@jchpman It's not Tiffin that's causing the problems, it's Thor industrys that took over operations. They are known to destroy good business' with their profit driven methods.
You have provided an invaluable service, and now I, too, am a subscriber. The bottom line aside from what u are doing to help...it shouldnt have to come to this to get results...ESPECIALLY on something that costs so much money. Ty Ty Ty. Keep up the good work.
You would think that when a person has THEIR NAME over the building and on the product that pride in that business would shine like platinum! Apparently, some CEO's don't get it and/or they don't think that the internet is anything to worry about. Good Work Liz!
A friend of mine had a nightmare experience on a new 5th wheel. Once you have signed the paperwork, do not expect much support from the retailer or the manufacturer. RV warranties are NOTHING like automotive warranties. If you are a prospective buyer of a RV, go in very slowly, and inspect the new unit very closely. Hire an inspector if you do not feel qualified to do your own thorough inspection.
We owned a Tiffin while Bob was still there. It was a 2021 phaeton. We still spent too much time in Red Bay. We sold it for a loss but now am so glad we got out. Buyer beware
Sounds like they need to get rid of Leigh. He’s not his grandfather. We have been looking for a new motorhome thought we wanted a Tiffin since they had a good reputation for customer care. Think we will be crossing Tiffin off our list.
I would think Thor is the problem and that Leigh is more likely just a figurehead to keep future purchasers comfortable after the sale of Tiffin. Country Coach pulled the same stunt for a while, keeping the previous well-regarded owner "in the office" so to speak, and many CCers "bought it" until CC bankruptcy problems could no longer be ignored.
@@terrysandiegoWhile I agree with you, it still wouldn’t have taken much effort at all for Leigh to just call the owners immediately after Liz emailed, and offer some reassurance that he was looking into the issue. The tone of his response speaks volumes.
Not sure who was in the office. The bank pulled all cc financing. I doubt the younger Tiffin has the gut-check-passion for sitting atop the organization. Check out the ceo of newmar he's using a mh and listening to customers. They'll right their ship with him. @@terrysandiego
I bought a 2015 Tiffin Phaeton 42LH in 2018 with 15k miles. We traveled full time on it traveling through 40 States over 3 years putting on 26K miles. I overall experience was. Basically fantastic!!! Sure we made a few trips to Redbay for minor repairs with positive results. Bob was still running the show. I believe the Thor buyout is driving these issues. We had a great experience and sold our rig to a dealer in Houston for the same price i paid for it. That was at the peak of Covid so that helped. I'm just giving my 2 cent worth. Tiffin did us and other's I know right. Thanks Bob!!!
Back then Chrysler, GM went over to Japan to explore and learn from Japanese manufacturing. Well, they laughed at Japan. The US would never let an employee stop the manufacturing line as Japan allows if there was an issue....or even speak up. Had to keep management seperated from line workers. Ego and stupidity ruled at GM and Ford along with the obsession for money and lack of concern for the consumer. So instead of fixing issues or adopting what they learned, the auto mfgs lobbied for tarrifs on imports, kept building crappy cars and kept management and line workers separated. The rest is history.
100% Liz! You deserve a consultation fee at the very beginning to go to bat for people. This ensures that they don't waste your valuable time and not follow through after you spend time interviewing them. On top of that there should be an agreement that you get a small percentage of any successful buyback or compensation they receive. I would gladly pay you if you went to bat for me and got me some or all of my money back on a 5 or 6 figure rig. It's only fair that you get paid for your time. This will also fuel the growth of your channel and your ability to grow and support and advocate for more people. Thank you for what you do!
Wow, you probably save me $900,000 I went to Tiffany to asked about building me a legacy coach. Everybody was friendly they even brought me dinner now seeing this video. I am reluctant to have them to build it for me. Thank you for all you do.
They are nothing more than a car dealership for really expensive cars. Of course they brought you dinner. They'll wait on you hand and foot if it means a nearly $1 million sale. Sharks. I'm glad you didn't place that custom order!!
We own a pre-Covid pre Thor Tiffin Allegra Breeze with 22,000+ miles on it. The coach is been pretty much flawless outside of a few minor issues that are common with every recreational vehicle out there I have taken the coach to Red Bay, Alabama every year for general service and I’ve been nothing but pleased. In fact, I would not have anyone else work on the coach but the folks at Tiffin. Also, in Red Bay there are numerous independent vendors that also work on Tiffin motorhomes and are another option for repairs when in or out of warranty issues arise.
Liz is so amazing, and lives up to her brand. I wish I had a Liz channel for every facet of life, because I think she just knows best, and what she doesn't know, she will find out, and make it known so everybody benefits, and the healing begins.
A huge problem is most of these RVs are built in Indiana. At least for the RVs that are picked up in Indians, there are choice of law provisions applying Indiana law. Indiana’s Lemon slaw excluded most RVs, and politically, the RV industry lobbyists have too much clout to get that changed.
We don't see these incredible mega big RV's where I live, they look better and bigger than many peoples homes. You need good consumer laws as we have in Australia, this sort of rubbish wouldn't be allowed
I work in projects and what you are doing is amazing. Businesses should Shape up or shape out. 1. Fix QA/QC system. 2. Provide good customer support with quick feedback.
It appears Leigh Tiffin is in over his head as President of Tiffin. He's no Bob Tiffin. Another issue is Thor being the owner of Tiffin Motorhomes. Thor destroys everything it touches. We've owned 2 DRV Mobile Suites 5th wheels before DRV was bought out by Thor. Since the acquisition, DRV quality has gone down. The rv industry is only a shell of its former self.
I also think what you do is very wonderful as well, however, once you start accepting money for professional services you're entering a very tricky area. Specifically, everything you are doing and/or recommending has legal consequences/results. As such, you could be opening the door to "practicing law with out a license". At minimum you should have an attorney at your side and in writing assigned to each clients case along with professional liability insurance.....thats if you are going to be taking $ for services.....IMHO.
This is something to think about Jeff. I'm not even sure if I should be charging, just frustrated when folks don't show up for an interview, thus robbing someone else of an opportunity to share their story and get the help they need. Thanks for watching.
Our first RV was a Thor. It was used, and we discovered very quickly that it had hidden leaks everywhere. Bought a brand new class c East West and love it. Florida to Arizona and back with zero issues.
Absolutely you should get paid. Your actually getting better results then hiring a attorney. You should get a fee for aggressively helping. You built a business of helping. And if they do recieve a buy back then you get a percentage also. That way you weave out the time wasters meaning the ones that aren't willing to do their part.
The very day I was at Newmar buying my New Aire, and told the sales staff about my frustrations with Thor, all I heard was "We hear this all the time.."
Bought a new 2019 Thor Class C nothing but Problems from the jump and my correspondence with Thor have basically been ignored. They said they would work with the dealer for me to get resolution but never did. The dealers service staff is terrible, their fix make the problem worse. You buy something new thinking that you have a warranty in case of problems they will fix it. They will try but if your rv spends months in the shop or sitting out on their dirt lot that is what happens, and then the warranty ends…….
@@dianewolfe3056 I went down that same path, but with a twist. After months of broken promises to repair a leaking hot water heater, I drove the Thor back to the dealer's office, disconnected the hot water heater and threw it in the parking lot, called the manager and said "special delivery".
From an outsider looking in....you should be charging a fixed fee of $5000usd for a positive buy back outcome. Or should your efforts fail....$ 2500usd for 1 week of your time and effort.
you are doing a great job. My mom had the same problem when she bought a new Chevy at 36100 miles the transmission went out. even though she had proof that all maintenance was done by a certified GM dealer. I said since it was only 100 miles over the warranty a good faith repair should be done.. GM refused so I contacted a friend of mine who works for Dodge. The Dodge company bought her car back for what she owed on it and gave her a $3500 discount on top of all rebates to buy a Dodge. She was ecstatic and loves the Charger more than her GM that she had.
You’re doing great work. I don’t understand why there are not Federal protection laws regarding citizens and companies. Cars/homes are holding more protection and often less cost than these overpriced drivable houses. I’m not an RV owner, but believe in fairness and value. You’re providing a lifeline to folks with hopelessness. I admire your work.
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📺 Videos mentioned
Big problem with your luxury DRV: th-cam.com/video/DP_zoVFmMek/w-d-xo.html
Can we trust our RV? th-cam.com/video/rownphniqFA/w-d-xo.html
THIS was missing from their new RV: th-cam.com/video/6nHo9xhlt6s/w-d-xo.html
Is TH-cam HIDING my channel? th-cam.com/video/H18GyZffGO8/w-d-xo.html
Update on their RV nightmare: th-cam.com/video/xvkvZ0gZA8A/w-d-xo.html
STILL not fixed: th-cam.com/video/XeiF6lnuyOY/w-d-xo.html
$800,000 Tiffin motorhome disaster: th-cam.com/video/d8U_e0FPAMU/w-d-xo.html
This video caused Jayco to buy it back: th-cam.com/video/4L6i4yr4wx0/w-d-xo.html
This video caused Alliance to buy it back: th-cam.com/video/PV_ytjlyZ7w/w-d-xo.html
This video caused Fun Town RV dealer to buy it back: th-cam.com/video/XeiF6lnuyOY/w-d-xo.html
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What was the software you used to track down their contact details? I've tried a few online but no luck.
FYI, you're getting hammered with spam in the comments section.
Great work Liz.
Value suggestion of your services: one could look at like similar to the compensation of a realtor. So, how about 5% of value of the RV/ motorhome for a buyback or 5% for the value of the repair performed to fix the issues? A suggestion for food for thought.
I admire your advocacy. However; I think you need to develop a contract type of service for your contacts to pay you. I don’t know that I want to support people who have the money to buy a 800,000 motor coach.
I was considering buying one and now after watching this video, I changed my mind. No way I am gonna spend most of time in the repair shop. I have better things to do. You just saved me $1000,000.00
I hope you paid the lady something for saving you, said respectfully.
That old saying holds true…. Do a customer right they will tell 10 people , do them wrong and they’ll tell 100’s
Exactly. I tell every RVer and potential RVer to not buy a Tiffin.
Ever since Leigh took over, their product has tanked. Of course, selling out to Thor didn't help. Thor has not been good for thirty years.
@@ctbrodie I have heard NOTHING BUT BAD about Thor and any company it's acquired.
As an engineer I can tell you that this is what happens when the sales department develops a product. We want this next month and of course - cheap. Crappy product is the result.
Im an engineer too, and im sick of people being MAD AT THE ENGINEER THAT DESIGNED THIS...
That's why I like yachts. You have a naval architect in charge - and those qualifications are not trivial to acquire.
$800k is not cheap.
@@toomanymarys7355 It might well be - depends on what they have been trying to squeeze in to a budget. Quality, if seen in the wrong way, is an added cost to the product.
Close to $1m on an RV. Yikes. I can’t believe there would be any issues with a new unit of that cost let alone a service hassle. Great work. The world needs more people like you. A fair and balanced approach. You are amazing.
I used to be a newspaper reporter and I learned early on that the one thing that government entities and companies fear the most is outside scrutiny.
And ask Boeing how they handle the honest people who bring these matters to light!
The old quote, "you don't have a legal problem, you have a daylight problem."
I wouldn't go around telling everybody that if I were you. Newspaper "reporters" are nothing more than actors, operatives and ignorant order followers.
Unless you're a cable or internet local monopoly like Xfinity. Then all the bad press in the world rolls off your back.
Thanks for the heads up. We will NOT be purchasing from a customer no service company like this. This is completely unacceptable
Class Action Lawsuit.
All the angry customers cannot all come the company and ask them the buy back their RV, just because they have some minor complaints.
@thorsrensen3162 yeah, right. Not following through and staying quiet until they are forced is a GIANT Red Flag. Something is afoot here.
Then don't buy an RV. Period. There is no RV company that has good customer service
@@thorsrensen3162 Exactly. Your comment will be buried but unfortunately there will be a lot of people that have immense buyers remorse because they sunk the cost of a nice house into an rv that's already lost them half a million in depreciation, and will use a few complaints to try to get a buyback. I'm not saying this guy didn't deserve it, but I have watched a few that were being so nitpicky and you could tell they bought something they regretted buying and were looking for an out.
Tiffin will not change because Thor will not change. They will just focus on newbies that don’t know better or get an inspection. I for one are not upgrading my 2013 Tiffin with a newer one. Will drive it until the wheels come off. Then I’ll hang it up. Totally junk being produced. Keep up the awesome job.
Hang onto that classic! Thanks for watching.
I would never give up a good older RV for a new piece of junk
QC issues at Tiffin existed prior to Thor's acquisition but the way they were handled was different and Bob Tiffin pretty much made sure that anything that made it to his attention was put right. The out-the-door quality has dropped and it's workmanship, mostly. Too many units being built too quickly, perhaps by too few? The same issue Boeing has - the line move is more important than whatever remains to be completed.
I agree. We have a 2017 Entegra Anthem and would not consider any of the new Class A’s. Our rig was made when quality mattered. Why spend so much more for a new one only to have a cheaper made RV.
Thank you so much for your informative material. Differently will be avoiding Tiffin and Thor manufacturers. Keep up the good work.
I'm not an RV owner (Yet) but I so appreciate you helping others. You are an RV angel!
Unless you have money to burn (as in a large bonfire) it is wise to question that desire. RVs are marketed to people like seniors in the beginnings of cognitive decline and of a long gone
"high trust society" era which is deader than a pickled herring. The companise selling them are not our friends. RV depreciate like a lit firecracker so hunting a high quality used one can net a proven unit for vastly less money.
We are driving our second Tiffin and have been very pleased with both coaches and with the customer service we have received. Our first coach was an Open Road and the one we have now is an Allegro Bus. We haven’t had a lot of issues and those we have had have general been of the user error variety and not to do with quality control. Tiffin has always been very helpful and responsive to us and T here have been a few times when one of their service tech spent hours on the phone helping us run down and correct a minor issue that occurred when we were traveling. During the pandemic when supply chains were such a mess, it took longer to get service because it took longer to get parts. I believe most of the issues occurring now are due to the acquisition by Thor and the changes they brought in.
The fact so many ppl liked these vids is a demonstration of ppls need for this kind of trully independant reviews
Way to go Liz!!! Mr Lee Tiffin you need to clean up Tiffin RV production quality, if you want to stay in business. The RV and TH-cam community are huge and get the word out quickly about poor quality products.
Liz your services are very Valuable. You need to get a deposit up front from those who request those services. I'm not sure exactly what the amount should be. I hope will be able to get help with that from others here. Maybe 1-2% the value of their rig? You're the BEST Liz! ❤
A very reasonable percentage for Liz's time and expenses.
What is she worth? Sending an email is worth less than a postage stamp.
@@scienceoffreedom Her time, knowledge, experience, work, software and service are very valuable to those she helps to get their rigs repaired or bought back. Also her recording equipment. Sharing this information with the RV community is saving many people from similar situations. That's why some of her videos have a million views.
@@scienceoffreedomPeople are nuts😅😅
You nailed it Liz. This is a top down poor culture problem at Tiffin. I will be shocked if Tiffin is able to remedy this and implement a quality control program that sets a new standard before the company is in dire straits. It’s almost at the point right now that Tiffin won’t be able to overcome the negative reviews and the voice of the consumer. Keep up the great work!
In fairness, most of their top exec's and engineers went to Boeing a few years back.
Tiffin, more than likely, lives in a mansion that does not leak! So why should he care! I bet you any amount of money, that if he were living in a brand new home that was crumbling around him, Tiffin would be screaming from the rooftops!
In place of QC they opened a huge service center and told everyone to "Bring it to Red Bay". Sure does not help the west coast folks!
I have shown your videos to my neighbors who have been researching Motor Homes including Tiffin. Needless to say, they are off the list of potential manufacturers. They are grateful for your videos.
Thankful for your assistance helping them get out of this mess.
CONGRATULATIONS LIZ!!! 🎉✨🎈🎊💃👌WOW! What a fantastic service you're providing. I have no idea how much you ought to be charging, but naturally your fees will be structured from 1. Consultation 2. Contacting relevant company and providing feedback 3. Varying amounts depending on what returns the client gets from the company. I've worded that really badly, but I'm sure that you get my drift.
SOUTH AFRICA 🌞🌍🦓🥰
Being a grunt all of my life, I can tell you if the top doesn't care, neither will the grunts. Crap literally does run downhill. Tiffen being at the top before being sold, to being last so fast is amazing in itself. Thanks Liz!
The wife and I were considering a Tiffin. Not anymore
I don't blame you. But I am hopeful that Tiffin turns over a new leaf. Thanks for watching.
A high end RV should NEVER have ANY issue, ever. No quality control. The business doesn't care, that much is clear. People need to boycott these companies. When the CEO does nothing, that says it all right there. The consumer is the deciding factor concerning if a company fails, not the stock holders. If their stock drops to ZERO ,they will take notice. People need to stop investing in crap RV's. Shame on these people for blowing off the consumer. Thank you Liz for doing what you do. You really represent the consumer. It is a SHAME you have to play advocate for us, but we thank you.
Completely agree! People keep buying and they will keep on selling their junk! Their silence speaks volumes. Hopefully, the more that word gets out and sales drop off....they will start paying attention. Shame that the greed of these executives makes them oblivious to how much they are hurting people.
ALL vehicles will have issues eventually. Smh…
@Brad_Huff right but not straight from the factory dude. A new product shouldn't come with problems standard from the factory. So let's just let them keep lining their pockets and not attend to the people who made them that money. Get real man.
An entry model shouldn’t be riddled with faults, either. Those owners don’t deserve it any more than wealthier owners.
smh?? Huh? @@Brad_Huff
I’m recently retired. My dream has always been to get a large RV of some sort and visit every National Park in the US. However, due to your videos I’ve been re thinking this. I’ll watch more of your vids and then make my decision. A nice cabin in the woods on a river or lake is sounding better and better. Thanks for your videos. BTW, just subscribed
Same thoughts here. Why ask for trouble by buying headache at the tune of hundreds of thousands dollars. No amount of scenery is worth it.
Good job Liz! You are correct the issue is top down at Tiffin. They have put over $60k into our $100k unit and we have spent $23k getting that unit to 8 service centers including the Tiffin Service Center in Redbay. A Vice President for Tiffin told us we needed to sue and then Leigh would help us. That VP stated it was the only way - but it shouldn’t be that way.
Leigh allowed us to be onsite for the production of our unit and signed our cabinet. We had several conversations with him in person, email and phone prior to our purchase but when we started to have trouble he wouldn’t respond to our emails, calls or in person visits at Tiffin.
Unfortunately Tiffin robbed us of our RV dream. Tiffin could be a top manufacturer if they would do the right thing.
I am so sorry this happened to you guys. They need to be held accountable
I used to watch your videos and then they seemed to stop. Probably because you were at the service center all the time. Best of luck.
We will soon be in the market for a $500k motorhome ... Tiffin is 100% OFF my list !
Buy a used Newmar, 2020 or older! From a Mountain Aire to the King Aire there are great quality USED Newmars out there in your price range! Check out RVTrader or the MotorCoach store down in Bradenton Florida, and/or Andrew Steels' channel on here, he does RV sales videos for them! I wouldn't buy ANY new Motorhome today, no matter the manufacturer!! Don't buy any Newmar newer than 2020 because of the covid years and after Winnebago purchased Newmar! Winnebago purchased Newmar in 2019, but let manufacturing run as the old Newmar for 2 years, after that ('21) Winnebago changed the manufacturing process!
Consider a winnebago. I appreciate their support, digital blueprints I can access. So far so good for us. Good luck!!
Embarrassing lol
@@HoustonRoad Be careful- the Winnebago name has been compromised, too, with its quality much lower than in past years. The company owns Newmar, which so far is very reputable.
I was sorry to learn about this customer’s experience. But I can also say that my wife and I are considering the Newmar London Aire or the Tiffin Zephyr. We had an opportunity to drive both at a recent NIRVC event in Nashville in June. We met Leigh Tiffin who made an extremely favorable impression on us. We also met Bob Tiffin, Leigh’s grandfather. I mention this because my wife and I were, and ARE still convinced that Tiffin will always do the right thing by their customers.
Can you point me to an auto/RV manufacturer that is perfect 100% of the time? Absolutely not. These are complex human built large machines (especially in the case of a Class A). ** What matters is what they do when there is a problem.*** In this case Leigh/Tiffin stepped up and did the right thing by doing a buy back.
We’ve been on the road in our current Class A since your article came out. In that time we’ve asked Tiffin and Newmar owners what they think of the company’s service on their unit. Hands down Tiffin got the best reviews in our unscientific and informal poll.
It disappoints me that someone like you will take a story like this, get the issue resolved (GREAT!), and then proceed to pour gasoline on Tiffin again by appending yet another story with a sensationalized headline. It discredits your advocacy for the consumer and appears to be more in line with promoting yourself and your channel. (And no, neither my wife or I work in the RV industry, nor are we Tiffin/Newmar owners…yet!)
Thank you, Liz for your tireless advocacy! So nice to know that there are decent people putting vendor's noses to the grindstone. Keep that tough love flowing!
Liz, I have agreed to loan my son and daughter-in-law a substantial amount of money {$1,000,000) for the purchase of an RV. He told me last night that they had decided on a TIFFIN coach. After watching your latest video, I just called him and told him the check would not be arriving for a TIFFIN. He and his wife are now watching your channel and will educate themselves. Thank you Liz. The money I'm loaning them was hard earned.
Thats nice of you, they should have done the research and not be starry eyed. And new in the RV world does not mean the best. An older updated country coach or newell is a way better value than a new production coach nowadays
Omgravy.....
Let your kids find their own way .... They'll be more appreciative.
Is your son earning his money the hard way as you did, or are you just financing all their poor life decisions?
Tell your son to look at used Prevost Marathons or Prevost Libertys. Prevost not only builds the highest quality and most beautiful motorhomes that are mass produced, but they make the only motorhomes I would settle for if I had anything like $1 Million to spend on such a thing. Marathon & Liberty coaches are rebuilt Prevost highway buses that are made to run a million miles and that company has been known for 50 years to make the best highway buses made. A used one 5 years old will be $800K- $1 Million but the quality is impeccable in every detail and that thing will give your son another 20 years, which is why one made in 1993 will still fetch $100K. Their only drawback is their fuel consumption, around 4MPG because it is such a heavy vehicle. But I wouldn't want to buy any motorhome unless I could afford a Marathon or Liberty, which is not likely in this lifetime. Good luck to your son and hope he gets himself a beautiful Marathon coach.
If your kid needs a loan for an RV, that means he can't afford it, are you going to pay for his fuel to run it too?
Hello Liz, I am new to watching you and I appreciate you sharing very much. My husband and I are both retired law enforcement. He is also a DAV. We bought a Thor class C from General RV in Canon Ohio. It isn’t a million dollar rig but we saved and saved. It’s been a nightmare from the start. General RV has been the worst customer service ever experience. They just DO NOT CARE once they have the money. The problems we have had and continue to have are endless. Thank you and God bless you.
I also bought from General RV, in Tampa. They are horrible. I bought a brand new 5th wheel and within 7 months, it literally started bowing. After countless times of returning to service, the factory took it back but we were screwed. Traded it for a Landmark, another piece of junk. It’s been sitting in my driveway since last April (at the dealership for 7 months too). Black holding tank fell out on the highway, and yes it was empty. Slideouts rotted, cost me, yes me, over $8,000 to repair.
All manufacturers need to heed your advice Liz.
It’s been over a year that I have been ready for my next RV. Unfortunately, the greed and low quality RV’s the U.S. manufacturers are putting out are disappointing. So much so that I started looking for one outside of the U.S., and I have been blown away by the high quality of the European and Canadian builds compared to ours. And for half the cost. I am either buying a non-US build one or will have one custom made by an independent builder.
Good to know, thanks so much for sharing this!!! And for being here through thick and thin!
Check some of the older well taken care of RVs I bought a really nice Forest River Lexington that’s well built and a lot like some of the euro ones
There are very view RV manufacturers in Canada. All gone ages ago. Indiana is the place. Be safe and great day,
You got that right. Australian motorhomes are beautiful but the cost to ship them prohibitive.
There are many issues with US-based productions. Recently Toyota is having major problems with their new trucks because they were built in America. The ones built in Canada are far more better. Toyota is going to have financial trouble now.
Same goes for RVs. All of the RVs that started in Canada are so well built that they even survived 35 years or more. Canadian work ethics are so much better than Americans.
They should be fined for selling garbage.
This company needs a new leader and an overhaul.
Thor is not much better for quality in my opinion...I lived in one.
Pure greed. I've watched the wealthy do it for a couple decades now. They are disgusting criminals in actuality.
@@Bantie1 Thor owns Tiffin.
When Bob Tiffin ran the show, their product was high quality. I had two of them, and they stood behind them fully. Now that Thor has taken over, they seem to be crappy built and customer blind.
@@TheodoreCross-d7b Thor definitely sucks. We had one years ago that Thor was behind many of the issues.
My hubby and I owned a 2014 Tiffin allegro Red 34 ft. We loved it! Since we retired last fall we had to sell since money coming was decreased. Would have loved to keep it. Our issues with the rig were very minimal in comparison to these customers. Never go new!
The only way imo to buy any type of rv is a seldom used, sorted and maintained one. Usually from older folks.
There are SO many of these for bargain basement $ it not even funny.
Depreciation hit isnt nearly as bad either.
Took a bit for Thor to start wrecking the brand.
1000s sold every year and a few bad ones .....focus on the one's that no customers complain about 98%
Negative Nancy
This is why my pickup bed is 8ft, with a Bedrug, cap, porta pot,...not glamping but 0 issues. Ok for a fall, spring overnighter. Best of all....a $hit load of cash for an upscale hotel room that doesn't need any maintenance!
I bought a small Sprinter-based Tiffin that was built during the Covid scare. Unsurprisingly, it had several plumbing, wiring and fit-and-finish problems. The local dealer was useless on the rv's main feature, its new LiFePO4 battery and generator system. Expecting the worst, I took it to Tiffin's Red Bay AL facilities and I was shocked--instead of the usual corporate denials and resistance, I met the most dedicated team of service pros that I've ever encountered. In fact, everyone I met in the town, at Tiffin and in the restaurants and newly restored historic hotel, was pleasant, competent and purpose-filled.
That’s awesome, thanks for sharing this!
this comment sounds like a plant from a Tiffin insider... things that make you go hmm. 🤔🤔🤔
@LesLee.Inete2 This whole anti-small town r.v. makers thread is ginned-up, promoted and supported by the big r.v. industry. You got it backwards.
@@karlroebling3316 sticking to my point
@LesLee.Inete2 don't bother to read my other posts, just cling to your original bs assertion.
Voted for Kamala yet?
I’m sorry , I just can’t imagine spending $800.000 on motorhome … that thing will lose half of its value in a year …
Right? It's insane.
These people are insane. Such an expensive product on wheels is a risk right there.
Will depreciate 50% in 5 years
@josephrochefort9989 $800,000 will buy you a nice house depending on what state. At least it has a resale value. As long as Democrats don’t take over again.
That wasn’t the point of this video though. Not everyone feels the same way about what they spend their money on
A CEO in his 30s who doesn’t care about the company and his customers anywhere near how his grandfather cared. I will never buy any product from Tiffin. But others will.
Yeah, I bet if more people actually knew that the CEO for Tiffin was the 30 something year old grandchild, Tiffin's sales would drop dramatically. Bob Tiffin was likely hungry and fighting to survive in the beginning. I'm sure his grandson knows nothing about struggling to make ends meet or fighting for survival. That's the biggest problem when you have these children who were born on third base and think that they hit a triple. I'm sure Bob could relate to the average person but a 30 something who has been wealthy his entire life cannot understand the struggles of the average man or woman.
There's an old sayin’ Mom & Dad builds the business, the son lives off the business and the grandson destroys the business. A guy like Leigh hasn't built anything, his next generation will have nothing………look at the Vanderbilts.
Tiffin is now owned by Thor. The previous owner has a contract to stay on as management
The thought of spending over $500k on an RV blows my mind let alone doing it without doing research first. The fact these people bought from Tiffin tells me all I need to know. Reminds me of people who buy POS Land Rovers or BMW’s. Takes about 10 minutes of online research to determine spending $60k-$150k on a car that there are better options.
@@vollste If you actually tour them in person, they are beautiful and I'm sure at one point their quality was stellar. It really is too bad to see the family name being destroyed.
Tiffin motorhomes catch much attention on the road. And, I had thought for the right reasons. Apparently, I was wrong to assume Tiffin rigs are the creme de la creme of the exceptional. This lack of quality and customer service spreads fast. Good job helping these people out with your time and channel, Liz.
Seems the issues go higher, like to THOR.
Liz, good on you for finding a niche as a consumer advocate. If you were to help me get a buyback I would gladly pay you. Take care and God bless!
Companies today only understand two things, BAD ADVERTISING/IMAGE and LITIGATION. In my opinion giving them a BAD IMAGE will get more attention than hidden/quiet litigation. Park your rig outside of the entrance at the manufacturing plant and buy some BILLBOARDS. Cheaper than a lawyer and I guarantee you will get a response. I am a retired marketing and business development consultant. How about a caravan of dissatisfied owners? My suggestion for your work is $1,000 down and 3% of the settlement. Personally, I would charge more than that but it's a beginning.
She doesnt have much bargaining power without an ESQ after her name.
People that can blow a mil on a toy ought to be smart enough to solve thier own problems....or hire a kickarse lawyer thats what they are for.
Hi Liz, I have been in Sales and Business for over 38 years. My humble opinion would be a flat fee of 1% to 2% of the total buy back amount. If it’s a case of you getting a manufacturer to do a bunch of repairs then again the owner should pay you a percentage of the overall cost of those repairs. I would suggest a scale based on the overall dollar amount starting at 5000 would be $500 and so on from there. Your time does have a value.
buy out of california they have a lemon law that shut down a rv factory i worked at
Some Lawyers charge up to $500 an hour and they can’t email the manufacturer CEO or owners directly like Liz does. She needs to get some money up front for her time because if the RV owners don’t get a resolution she wouldn’t get paid for her time spent.
I was thinking closer to 5% of the buy back amount. If they had to sell the coach, they are losing what 30%, maybe more?
There's a lot of responsibility on the dealerships selling Tiffins. If this many people are having issues with Tiffins, it's impossible for the dealerships to not be aware, and yet they still sell Tiffins. The dealerships are just as guilty as Tiffin. Pressure may need to be applied to dealerships to drop Tiffin until they get their quality under control.
Thought the same thing....where was the quality control in the dealership at the acceptance of this unit and why was it sold in the condition it was in? They are also responsible for this problem.
Liz, Our 2022 34PA went back to Red Bay for 6 months for major warranty repairs that the selling dealer could not do. Tiffin picked it up and delivered it back to me in VA. All repairs were done to my satisfaction. I had spoken to Bob Tiffin multiple times while my unit was getting repaired/reworked. I believe their issue is poor quality control, just pushing these rigs out the door and hoping the selling dealer can make the warranty repairs.
Bob is gone, alas. HE was the source of all that was good about the company.
What a great service you are providing. You have a valuable channel with long term credibility. Yes you should get paid. At least $5,000 on a buyback. Good Luck !
Agreed. Still 15 years from retirement but I've been looking at RV's :-) Algorithm recommended this channel and I just subscribed after seeing original video and this followup . Keep it up please !
No. That's gross.
They’re ALL junk! They pretty much kiss your feet during the buying/persuasion process and once you leave the lot it’s bubeye Felicia! Imagine spending nearly ONE MILLION DOLLARS on a coach and being treated like this!
yes seems like they are swiped left
People with that kind of scratch to buy these things probably just want it out of their lives. Nobody on a fixed income buys expensive motorhomes. When you think of how many nights at a five star hotel you could get for the price of these Elmer's glued up staple boxes, anyone with common sense would just watch videos and never buy one.
You are correct. My brother in law bought a trailer manufactured in Canada for this reason. He had to wait a while for it to be built and he drove to Canada to pick it up. Zero problems.
@@emilcost8613 That's what I do- watch these vids. I'm an older lady who would LOVE to buy the luxe condo on N Lake Shore Drive I could buy with the money this thing costs- 2200 sq ft of majestic architecture in a highly serviced building of impeccable comfort and dreadnaught security with a view of Lake Michigan that even costs less to in taxes, maintenance, and repairs than this thing does. I'd rather buy a couple of dozen nice vacations abroad with $800K spare change in my bank account.
Exactly, once you have signed & are out the door its adios amigo 👋.
Tiffin is just a word, is not a brand anymore. If they were a brand, they would have kept their integrity. Thanks Liz and I hope you have a wonderful day
My wife and I have been watching a lot of TH-cam to learn about traveling the country in an RV. I really appreciate your channel because you appear to be a very honest individual who wants to help.
We had planned to sell our home which has value of more than $1,000,000 and buy a class A. I definitely won’t be buying a Thor or Tiffin RV based on all the complaints I have seen on TH-cam. Now we are leaning toward buying a Brinkley fifth wheel and staying in
top level RV parks with full hookup.
We figure that will be a lot better than spending a million dollars on a class A that will likely have a lot of issues. A new Brinkley RV, along with a new truck and the hitch for the fifth wheel will cost a lot less that a million dollars and we will have plenty of money left over to stay at the best camp grounds when we travel.
Smart plan but still get a certified RV inspector to do a full review of the rig BEFORE you put money down! Never drive it off the lot until every item has been fixed. If a dealer won't let that happen run away from that dealer and that brand. Good luck.
"The blinkers didn't work." I'm so glad to find someone else who calls them blinkers! People have been pointing that out to me for years. lol. Anyway, thank you for sharing and thank you for what you do.
I'm a german and for me it is normal .... Tiffin 35RH ,2001 , bought it 2008 , till 2018 in FL , now in Germany , Great one
Subscribed and I'm not even looking for an RV, but I believe what you're doing is informative and valuable and your vids are also fascinating! Going to share your channel with a friend who IS looking for an RV.
Been holding my breath …. Wonderful they are buying this unit back, is what should have been done. It’s a start.
Indeed. Thanks again, Deborah.
They will just patch it up and resell it. This time for 900,000.
Hi Liz. I have toured 2 different rv manufacturers. I asked them how they managed quality and the simple answer is, they don't. I worked at very high levels in international quality assurance for 30 years. These companies are in the same quality position that American car makers were in the 60s and 70s. Shove them out the door and let the dealers fix the problems. That is why Japanese cars grew so quickly at that time. What these rv manufacturers need is a quality assurance program, not quality control by post manufacture inspection. Contrary to popular belief, you can't inspect quality into a product.
Amen
What these RV manufacturers need is customer Tort reform w/o lengthy litigation.. Like everything thing else.. all these clowns understand is the bottom line..
Maybe a percentage of the buyback. You’d think these people would kick you back a “reward” without being told considering when they come to you they have exhausted their own abilities.
I don't know about percentage. Many might be in financial distress anyway after all this, especially if they only get repairs and not a buy back or some refund. Perhaps hourly with a minimum rate of so many hours, or a flat minimum rate.
Agree. A percentage of buyback seems well worth it. Nobody should have to work for free. Even Ralph Nader got paid!
Thank you for your service to those owners in need.
This is great for those of us shopping. Great video
A place I worked at and retired from would have monthly departmental (work center cells) meetings and discuss issues with customer returns or difficulties with manufacturing process. Sometimes other work centers would get involved and we would call these meetings "Best Practices" and the meetings would have minutes taken, and these minutes were reviewed until a solution was reached. It worked, and our ISO9000-ISO18000 showed great results. Seems Tiffin and all RV manufacturers could benefit from taking their customers seriously. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Jeez imagine spending almost 1 million dollars on a product and its not perfect jeez man that frustrating 😢😢😢
Solution: Thor should fire Leigh Tiffin and hire Liz in his place!
Ha! I'm way too busy or I would! Thanks for watching and stay tuned!
@@DZCamaro-kz2vd Bob Tiffin should have NEVER got in bed with Thor.
Hiring her would mean they care. They don’t care enough to do that
Very admirable what you're doing Liz! We need more people like you in the world 😊
I am so glad that someone is speaking out about how these rigs are built. I've heard such nightmares from folks who have purchased RV's that are slapped together light fast food burgers. They really need to up their craftsmanship and stand by their prolifically expensive products.
I was just looking at one of these units. Thank you for this video.
You are so welcome! Glad you are here.
Tiffin's response to your second e-mail was rude and dismissive. You'll get more of the same when you e-mail him again, as this is who he is.
Thanks for all you do!
My wife and I are in the market for a Class A diesel, Tiffin was certainly a brand we were considering but after seeing what this couple has gone through and the apparent problems currently at Tiffin it’s very concerning. It’d be hard for me to buy a Tiffin and feel like I made the right choice.
Be sure to get an inspection.
I'm with you. I'm retiring soon and now with all the RV quality issues being reported, I decided to stay on the sidelines and just air travel for now. Shame on Tiffin!!!
IMHO- Get out of the market-quickly. You can buy a LOT of stays in nice hotels for $800,000.
@BrianGlover3819 look into lightly used foretravels, newells, or bus conversions instead of these sell-out brands
Liz you are fantastic. We need more people like you. You should incorporate and get a team with you and charge. Your work is so valuable. Thank you.
Liz, you are providing a centralized clearing house for RV issues and RV company lack of customer support and response. Thank you for providing this to people that don't have the viewership to be able to make an impact and to get the manufacturers to respond. Please keep up the good work.
Great job Liz. I'm a retired police officer with 28 years of service. You doing a great job!
Thanks so very much for your support!
This channel has 100% made my decision to go with a tiny house instead of an RV. Thank you.
You can’t pull the tiny house all over United States🤣
@darrells1806 true...but I'm looking for something that will be stationary, that I can live in full-time. And I want something brand new, and it seems like all the RVs built in the last 5 years are garbage, as an older single woman that is not very handy or mechanically inclined, that's a big no for me. 🤷🏼
@@lynniec A house is a much better option. It will be much more durable and repairable than a stationary RV.
An even better option is to make your own RV. There are very few RV manufacturers now who make good motorhomes: most are absolute junk. I'm making my own motorhome from a 40-foot Crown bus, and it is better engineered, better made, more durable and reliable, and just better in every way. Spending six-figure (or more) sums of money on junk simply isn't smart. Mine will have cost me less than $50,000 by the time I'm done, but it will function incomparably better than RVs costing ten times that or more.
@lynniec there is good rv's out there. Look into the company's. Any big name that sells, 50% chance they cut corners all over to make profits.
Great work. After watching these last few videos about the problems with Tiffin RV's I'll never buy a Tiffin. Shame on Tiffin for causing so much hardship and stress for people.
@@jchpman It's not Tiffin that's causing the problems, it's Thor industrys that took over operations. They are known to destroy good business' with their profit driven methods.
Following since original, thought hopeless for remedy. Amazing you turned it around for these seasoned owners. Miracle.
You have provided an invaluable service, and now I, too, am a subscriber. The bottom line aside from what u are doing to help...it shouldnt have to come to this to get results...ESPECIALLY on something that costs so much money. Ty Ty Ty. Keep up the good work.
You would think that when a person has THEIR NAME over the building and on the product that pride in that business would shine like platinum! Apparently, some CEO's don't get it and/or they don't think that the internet is anything to worry about. Good Work Liz!
Tiffin is now owned by Thor and Thor doesn't care about the Tiffin legacy.
A friend of mine had a nightmare experience on a new 5th wheel. Once you have signed the paperwork, do not expect much support from the retailer or the manufacturer. RV warranties are NOTHING like automotive warranties. If you are a prospective buyer of a RV, go in very slowly, and inspect the new unit very closely. Hire an inspector if you do not feel qualified to do your own thorough inspection.
We owned a Tiffin while Bob was still there. It was a 2021 phaeton. We still spent too much time in Red Bay. We sold it for a loss but now am so glad we got out. Buyer beware
Bravo. Well done and big thank you for all customers.
Wow thank you Liz! Keep doing what you do.
Liz gives them a chance to be a Hero or a Zero. I am so happy they are doing a buy back.
Me, too! Thanks for being here and see you next week.
Sounds like they need to get rid of Leigh. He’s not his grandfather. We have been looking for a new motorhome thought we wanted a Tiffin since they had a good reputation for customer care. Think we will be crossing Tiffin off our list.
Do you know of a Class A RV manufacturer that customers aren't complaining about.
I would think Thor is the problem and that Leigh is more likely just a figurehead to keep future purchasers comfortable after the sale of Tiffin. Country Coach pulled the same stunt for a while, keeping the previous well-regarded owner "in the office" so to speak, and many CCers "bought it" until CC bankruptcy problems could no longer be ignored.
@@terrysandiegoWhile I agree with you, it still wouldn’t have taken much effort at all for Leigh to just call the owners immediately after Liz emailed, and offer some reassurance that he was looking into the issue. The tone of his response speaks volumes.
Not sure who was in the office. The bank pulled all cc financing.
I doubt the younger Tiffin has the gut-check-passion for sitting atop the organization. Check out the ceo of newmar he's using a mh and listening to customers. They'll right their ship with him. @@terrysandiego
I bought a 2015 Tiffin Phaeton 42LH in 2018 with 15k miles. We traveled full time on it traveling through 40 States over 3 years putting on 26K miles. I overall experience was. Basically fantastic!!! Sure we made a few trips to Redbay for minor repairs with positive results. Bob was still running the show. I believe the Thor buyout is driving these issues. We had a great experience and sold our rig to a dealer in Houston for the same price i paid for it. That was at the peak of Covid so that helped. I'm just giving my 2 cent worth. Tiffin did us and other's I know right. Thanks Bob!!!
I remember back in the early 60s yes I am that old. People used to say things made in Japan are junk.
Wow how things have changed 180 degrees!
Today the highest recognition for Quality in Japan is the Deming Award, named after an American who unfortunately was ignored in his home country.
Back then Chrysler, GM went over to Japan to explore and learn from Japanese manufacturing. Well, they laughed at Japan. The US would never let an employee stop the manufacturing line as Japan allows if there was an issue....or even speak up. Had to keep management seperated from line workers. Ego and stupidity ruled at GM and Ford along with the obsession for money and lack of concern for the consumer. So instead of fixing issues or adopting what they learned, the auto mfgs lobbied for tarrifs on imports, kept building crappy cars and kept management and line workers separated. The rest is history.
@@PAPOOSELAKESURFER And everyone over hear refers to "continuous process improvement" as "kaizen" as though the Japanese invented it!
Thank you for helping that couple. You are an Angel.
Leigh's terse response to you says everything. That's a company I will not cry for when they fail.
And, sir, they will fail.
100% Liz! You deserve a consultation fee at the very beginning to go to bat for people. This ensures that they don't waste your valuable time and not follow through after you spend time interviewing them. On top of that there should be an agreement that you get a small percentage of any successful buyback or compensation they receive. I would gladly pay you if you went to bat for me and got me some or all of my money back on a 5 or 6 figure rig. It's only fair that you get paid for your time. This will also fuel the growth of your channel and your ability to grow and support and advocate for more people. Thank you for what you do!
I agree. Some sort of retainer or consultation fee would make sense.
Wow, you probably save me $900,000 I went to Tiffany to asked about building me a legacy coach. Everybody was friendly they even brought me dinner now seeing this video. I am reluctant to have them to build it for me. Thank you for all you do.
You are so welcome. Hoping these videos will be a wakeup call for Tiffin. Thanks for watching.
They are nothing more than a car dealership for really expensive cars. Of course they brought you dinner. They'll wait on you hand and foot if it means a nearly $1 million sale.
Sharks.
I'm glad you didn't place that custom order!!
I'd be running away, and it pains me to say it because Tiffin WAS a great company. Now it's just average, at best.
Rule 1: NO SUCH THING, "FREE DINNER !"
We own a pre-Covid pre Thor Tiffin Allegra Breeze with 22,000+ miles on it. The coach is been pretty much flawless outside of a few minor issues that are common with every recreational vehicle out there I have taken the coach to Red Bay, Alabama every year for general service and I’ve been nothing but pleased. In fact, I would not have anyone else work on the coach but the folks at Tiffin. Also, in Red Bay there are numerous independent vendors that also work on Tiffin motorhomes and are another option for repairs when in or out of warranty issues arise.
We're watching. Thank you Liz Amazing
Liz is so amazing, and lives up to her brand. I wish I had a Liz channel for every facet of life, because I think she just knows best, and what she doesn't know, she will find out, and make it known so everybody benefits, and the healing begins.
Contact your legislatures and get them to pass lemon laws.
Lol whine to government to help
A huge problem is most of these RVs are built in Indiana. At least for the RVs that are picked up in Indians, there are choice of law provisions applying Indiana law. Indiana’s Lemon slaw excluded most RVs, and politically, the RV industry lobbyists have too much clout to get that changed.
They need to be built in Pennsylvania if they were they would be worth something
We don't see these incredible mega big RV's where I live, they look better and bigger than many peoples homes. You need good consumer laws as we have in Australia, this sort of rubbish wouldn't be allowed
Yes same in New Zealand, I'm a kiwi been living in the United States for 16 years and experienced this ugly trend
KEEP DOING THIS LIZ. You’re the only way this is going to change.
I work in projects and what you are doing is amazing. Businesses should Shape up or shape out.
1. Fix QA/QC system.
2. Provide good customer support with quick feedback.
Why do people spend 500-800k on a motorhome and don't do 5 mins of consumer research online to see ratings, comments and issues???
Thor= Kiss of Death
Sure hope they wake up and start taking care of their customers. Thanks for watching
It appears Leigh Tiffin is in over his head as President of Tiffin. He's no Bob Tiffin. Another issue is Thor being the owner of Tiffin Motorhomes. Thor destroys everything it touches. We've owned 2 DRV Mobile Suites 5th wheels before DRV was bought out by Thor. Since the acquisition, DRV quality has gone down. The rv industry is only a shell of its former self.
I also think what you do is very wonderful as well, however, once you start accepting money for professional services you're entering a very tricky area. Specifically, everything you are doing and/or recommending has legal consequences/results. As such, you could be opening the door to "practicing law with out a license". At minimum you should have an attorney at your side and in writing assigned to each clients case along with professional liability insurance.....thats if you are going to be taking $ for services.....IMHO.
This is something to think about Jeff. I'm not even sure if I should be charging, just frustrated when folks don't show up for an interview, thus robbing someone else of an opportunity to share their story and get the help they need. Thanks for watching.
Our first RV was a Thor. It was used, and we discovered very quickly that it had hidden leaks everywhere. Bought a brand new class c East West and love it. Florida to Arizona and back with zero issues.
Great results Liz! You truly are AMAZING!!!!
Thanks!
You are so kind! Thank you so much!
Great job, Liz!!!
Absolutely you should get paid. Your actually getting better results then hiring a attorney. You should get a fee for aggressively helping. You built a business of helping. And if they do recieve a buy back then you get a percentage also. That way you weave out the time wasters meaning the ones that aren't willing to do their part.
You are truly amazing Liz, thanks so much for what you do!
Good work Liz, you really do tell it like it is and the consumers are better off for your hard work.
Well done Tiffin. Please take your clients advice. We want Tiffin to be Great again.
Used to be a great place
The very day I was at Newmar buying my New Aire, and told the sales staff about my frustrations with Thor, all I heard was "We hear this all the time.."
Oh wow. I hope Thor straightens up, because the word is out now! Thanks for watching, Allan!
Bought a new 2019 Thor Class C nothing but Problems from the jump and my correspondence with
Thor have basically been ignored. They said they would work with the dealer for me to get resolution but never did. The dealers service staff is terrible, their fix make the problem worse.
You buy something new thinking that you have a warranty in case of problems they will fix it. They will try but if your rv spends months in the shop or sitting out on their dirt lot that is what happens, and then the warranty ends…….
@@dianewolfe3056 I went down that same path, but with a twist.
After months of broken promises to repair a leaking hot water heater, I drove the Thor back to the dealer's office, disconnected the hot water heater and threw it in the parking lot, called the manager and said "special delivery".
@@LizAmazing
Thor been doing this since became a company. It only gotten worse after 2020. All they do is build junk.
From an outsider looking in....you should be charging a fixed fee of $5000usd for a positive buy back outcome. Or should your efforts fail....$ 2500usd for 1 week of your time and effort.
Great job on the buy back!!!
you are doing a great job. My mom had the same problem when she bought a new Chevy at 36100 miles the transmission went out. even though she had proof that all maintenance was done by a certified GM dealer. I said since it was only 100 miles over the warranty a good faith repair should be done.. GM refused so I contacted a friend of mine who works for Dodge. The Dodge company bought her car back for what she owed on it and gave her a $3500 discount on top of all rebates to buy a Dodge. She was ecstatic and loves the Charger more than her GM that she had.
You’re doing great work. I don’t understand why there are not Federal protection laws regarding citizens and companies. Cars/homes are holding more protection and often less cost than these overpriced drivable houses. I’m not an RV owner, but believe in fairness and value. You’re providing a lifeline to folks with hopelessness. I admire your work.