0:00 Fardriver BOOST, another protection feature 0:10 Who needs to use BOOST function? 0:20 How to set up BOOST 0:26 in the normal FARDRIVER, connector pin 6 has the brown boost wire. The 530/680 are abnormal. 0:32 this is the normal connector, the 530/680 is different and causes headaches lol 0:37 in the app we can reassign functions to different wires. But in this case we use Brown wire #6 pin which is hardwired to pin 14 of the CPU 0:40 the dropdown list shows which connector pin-cpu pin combination can be used for boost. 0:48 the boost time can be set as high as 130 seconds. I set mine at 5 seconds. The longer the time, the less boost you should allow 1:03 boost release is the cooldown period. This can be set as long as 130 seconds. It should be long enough to recover from the boost period 1:30 for initial testing, use short times like 5s boost and 10s release so you can get the feel for it. Later you can add cooldown time, boost amps and/or boost time. 1:41 Notice the DC amps is 40a, rpm limit 675, and boost amps 60a. Phase amps are set high enough not to interfere. 2:30 931 rpm peak at 46v with no flux weakening. 2:48 Flux weakening set to 0 (max) 3:01 Boost engaged. All passengers don neck braces 😁 3:07 970 rpm @ 44v with flux weakening. 3:10 This is a 14” folding ebike so 970 rpm is only 40mph/65kph. My 60v battery will be significantly quicker and faster.
No, as far as I know, boost only works if you are already in speed 3. This is possibly a safety feature to make sure you don’t accidentally push the boost button when holding full throttle in low speed, which has 25% power and instantly go to 150% power. If you are in mode 3, then the 25%-50% boost shouldn’t cause you to lose control. Try setting your speeds such that you would not even want to go directly from low to boost. By default low is 25%, mid 50a, high 100% of the value set in MaxLineCurr, which if you are using boost should be set to 50%-75% of the BoostLineCurrent value. So in a typical setup with a 600a max DC Fardriver it would be: Low 100a Mid 200a High 400a Boost 600a You can see going from 400a to 600a with full throttle should not make you lose control but going from 100a to 600a definitely can on some bikes.
Also keep in mind that Boost mode overrides the rpm limit and relies solely on ratios in speed to limit rpm, and there is no “boost off” switch, other than changing from speed 3 down to speed 2 or 1. There may be a time when you only needed boost for 5 seconds and your boost time limit was set for 30 seconds and you just want to get back to normal cruise.
@@500wattz BOOST and FIELD WEAKENING are not directly related. You can use one without the other, neither one or both. Ratios in speeds however is directly related to both BOOST and FIELD WEAKENING depth. If you use field weakening you must set ratios in speed correctly. If you use boost it not only allows more amps (assuming normal max amps is less that the max for the controller), but it also overrides maxspeed rpm which is speed 3. So boost is speed 4, has its own amps, its own rpm limited (ratios in speed) and a time limit and cooldown timer. There may be cases where even with field weakening off, the rated kv of your motor is so high you need to pull it back a bit. In boost mode it will use the ratios in speed and limit phase amps. Depending how you set the curve in ratios in speeds it will either act like a hard rpm limit, or it will be variable depending on if you are going uphill or downhill.
Okay thanks. Question, I have a first gen QSmotor 205 50h 4T 3kw running at 5kw nominal, 260 phase with statorade and hub sinks. I do a lot of long full power commuting with 500 metres of elevation on average. The motor with statorade and the hubsinks still get kinda hot. I do not have temp sensor for motor. Do you think I could push more out of it because I have the battery to do it now, or do you think I should leave it? I was thinkin 6kw boost for speed 3 ( have switch and use 3 speeds now). Was thinking 6kw nominal but I'm not sure if the statorade and the hubsinks is enough for that. Remember, this is first gen with the steel bore, not the aluminum one.
@@500wattz , without the temperature sensor it seems risky to push high phase amps for long periods. My motor also doesn’t have any temperature sensor so all I can do is test it and check the temperature and then back off settings to something that will stay safe under all riding conditions i might encounter. If you have money in reserve to buy a new stator or motor with temperature sensors then you can push a bit harder if you don’t mind getting stranded. 4T can handle more current than 5T but less than 3T. While statoraide and fins will help dissipate heat, if any winding strand that touches another phase or the stator melts its varnish then its going to get messy very fast, especially at a high speed. If you increase the max DC amps and also allow field weakening to go too deep for too long, keeping DC amps pegged at max, it’s likely to end up burning the motor. Which controller do you have? 72530 is 6kw nominal but 24kw peak. This controller set unlimited can easily fry a 205 50H and a 273 40H. Im currently helping someone tune their 72450 (200a dc) on a stealth with 205 50H 20” wheels and have field weakening off for now which self limits to 50-55mph, 80a. Later when hes ready for speed we will turn on field weakening and set ratios in speed to pull current down from 200a to about 150a, and wire up BOOST and then set the timer based on what his motor temperature sensor shows. From there we can allow more amps for fewer seconds or fewer amps for more seconds. But the master tuning instrument is that temperature gauge behavior. Without that you really have no idea whats going on at the windings, For your setup same fundamentals apply but you have no way to know when you reached the limit until the motor starts smoking. So if you feel its already on the ragged edge, i wouldn’t push it much harder than you were. And your battery needs some work. Normally LiFePO4 cannot handle high C discharging. It will get hot fast and degrade fast. 50AH i would only pull 50a continuous, 100a max for 60 seconds , 150a for 10 seconds. But it really depends on how your battery behaves. If you need help getting your BMS set to give better battery behavior let me know.
@@imho7250 the lifepo4 battery is gone. I have a custom built Sony murata vtcta 50ah 72v 400a xiaoxiang Bluetooth smart bms in the bomber so power is no longer the issue, my motor is
@@imho7250can you help me with my tune? I got a fardriver controller nd72360 for a bosch hub 1.300watts 2,4 peak. And a 60v 43 ah battery. Butt last time i could do more amps because it schutting of. Now i changed fieldweakeing from7 to 6 and now it can take more amps before going into project. The power is how i want it on this lvl 80 amps only it shutts of if you hold gas open to long. Has this to do with the rpm s to high ? I have no clue what im doing and if its possible to keep this much power and torgue or do i still need to upgrade rhe battery from 60 to 72 ? Its clear u know lots more on this topic 😂
Follow the labels on the wire or the wiring diagram. The only exception is for the LIN signal to the display you might need to use the brown boost wire, not the blue or purple wire. Is there any specific wire you are not sure how to connect it?
@@trinhvietquan , because brown isn’t really boost, brown is LIN for the display. If you have a button for boost you need to use one of the unused wires and assign it as boost in the settings.
@@dcktater7847 do you mean the can you change the motor overtemp settings? AFAIK they are not adjustable via the app. Default is about 160c. If you don’t have a real temp sensor like the KTY83-122 (which should be selected if you have it), you can use CACU temp simulation and calibrate it to read higher than actual so that when the motor is about 100c actual temp the gauge reads 160c and shuts down the controller. I think there is a way to change the 160 settings using a text editor but thats slightly advance and could brick the controller. To do that you need to save the config file which ends in .h and then using text editor manually change the 160 to 120 and the restore setting to 110 or so, then upload that file to your fardriver. To me this setting she no be locked but should allow you to set any reasonable range like 80c-200c or whatever the max safe winding temperature on the market is.
@@imho7250 i dont know if i dare the last option...but deceiving seems okay. Tho i dont want the controller to shut on me that'd be very bad at 120 kph. Some reduced power would be okay like with the votol...it's just too tedious looking at it all the time...i think this is my last air cooled motor i'm sick and tired of overheating...
@@dcktater7847 you can only deceive if using CACU which is already deceitful on its own. Lol. If you have a real temp probe it’s best to stay with that. No doubt liquid cooling would be great. Every real EV has it. I would like to see a teardown on some of the liquid cooled ebike motors. I wonder if they offer significantly higher continuous current or just provide a shorter cooldown period after a short burst of 400% max continuous power.
@@imho7250 It's currently in progress here. I'm modifying a rickshaw motor to water for a small car. And also a sotion fw11 is in progress for the race bike it should be shitting out 35kw cont so it's gotta be good. I dont have too much doubt that it'll be good it's gotta be soo efficient that it's not even funny i bet that it'll be perpetually air temp. Like what's the wattage we are talking here a few kw? A car produces hundreds of kilowats of heat and it has the same water envelope as my motors. I mean water is a 3000 times better colling agent than air. But i'll also make sure that the windings are in direct contact with the alu house. Heat going through the iron core through all the nomex and shit isnt very good you can cool the case all you want but if there's no proper contact with the copper core it's all useless... I dont know how far the 138 could be taken tho so far i didnt let it above 100c...the winding can take 150 sure but i'm worried about the magnets...
@@dcktater7847 , many EV motors also cool the rotor by sending oil or some non-conductive coolant through the rotor shaft. I would also like a low viscosity oil to immerse the rotor and stator windings in with some forced circulation through a heat exchanger.
0:00 Fardriver BOOST, another protection feature
0:10 Who needs to use BOOST function?
0:20 How to set up BOOST
0:26 in the normal FARDRIVER, connector pin 6 has the brown boost wire. The 530/680 are abnormal.
0:32 this is the normal connector, the 530/680 is different and causes headaches lol
0:37 in the app we can reassign functions to different wires. But in this case we use Brown wire #6 pin which is hardwired to pin 14 of the CPU
0:40 the dropdown list shows which connector pin-cpu pin combination can be used for boost.
0:48 the boost time can be set as high as 130 seconds. I set mine at 5 seconds. The longer the time, the less boost you should allow
1:03 boost release is the cooldown period. This can be set as long as 130 seconds. It should be long enough to recover from the boost period
1:30 for initial testing, use short times like 5s boost and 10s release so you can get the feel for it. Later you can add cooldown time, boost amps and/or boost time.
1:41 Notice the DC amps is 40a, rpm limit 675, and boost amps 60a. Phase amps are set high enough not to interfere.
2:30 931 rpm peak at 46v with no flux weakening.
2:48 Flux weakening set to 0 (max)
3:01 Boost engaged. All passengers don neck braces 😁
3:07 970 rpm @ 44v with flux weakening.
3:10 This is a 14” folding ebike so 970 rpm is only 40mph/65kph. My 60v battery will be significantly quicker and faster.
do you know how to make boost work also with mid speed and low speed? as of now my bike can use boost only with high speed.
No, as far as I know, boost only works if you are already in speed 3. This is possibly a safety feature to make sure you don’t accidentally push the boost button when holding full throttle in low speed, which has 25% power and instantly go to 150% power. If you are in mode 3, then the 25%-50% boost shouldn’t cause you to lose control.
Try setting your speeds such that you would not even want to go directly from low to boost. By default low is 25%, mid 50a, high 100% of the value set in MaxLineCurr, which if you are using boost should be set to 50%-75% of the BoostLineCurrent value.
So in a typical setup with a 600a max DC Fardriver it would be:
Low 100a
Mid 200a
High 400a
Boost 600a
You can see going from 400a to 600a with full throttle should not make you lose control but going from 100a to 600a definitely can on some bikes.
Also keep in mind that Boost mode overrides the rpm limit and relies solely on ratios in speed to limit rpm, and there is no “boost off” switch, other than changing from speed 3 down to speed 2 or 1.
There may be a time when you only needed boost for 5 seconds and your boost time limit was set for 30 seconds and you just want to get back to normal cruise.
What about field weakening? Should still be used with boost?
@@500wattz BOOST and FIELD WEAKENING are not directly related. You can use one without the other, neither one or both.
Ratios in speeds however is directly related to both BOOST and FIELD WEAKENING depth. If you use field weakening you must set ratios in speed correctly. If you use boost it not only allows more amps (assuming normal max amps is less that the max for the controller), but it also overrides maxspeed rpm which is speed 3. So boost is speed 4, has its own amps, its own rpm limited (ratios in speed) and a time limit and cooldown timer.
There may be cases where even with field weakening off, the rated kv of your motor is so high you need to pull it back a bit. In boost mode it will use the ratios in speed and limit phase amps. Depending how you set the curve in ratios in speeds it will either act like a hard rpm limit, or it will be variable depending on if you are going uphill or downhill.
Okay thanks. Question, I have a first gen QSmotor 205 50h 4T 3kw running at 5kw nominal, 260 phase with statorade and hub sinks. I do a lot of long full power commuting with 500 metres of elevation on average. The motor with statorade and the hubsinks still get kinda hot. I do not have temp sensor for motor. Do you think I could push more out of it because I have the battery to do it now, or do you think I should leave it? I was thinkin 6kw boost for speed 3 ( have switch and use 3 speeds now). Was thinking 6kw nominal but I'm not sure if the statorade and the hubsinks is enough for that. Remember, this is first gen with the steel bore, not the aluminum one.
@@500wattz , without the temperature sensor it seems risky to push high phase amps for long periods. My motor also doesn’t have any temperature sensor so all I can do is test it and check the temperature and then back off settings to something that will stay safe under all riding conditions i might encounter.
If you have money in reserve to buy a new stator or motor with temperature sensors then you can push a bit harder if you don’t mind getting stranded.
4T can handle more current than 5T but less than 3T. While statoraide and fins will help dissipate heat, if any winding strand that touches another phase or the stator melts its varnish then its going to get messy very fast, especially at a high speed.
If you increase the max DC amps and also allow field weakening to go too deep for too long, keeping DC amps pegged at max, it’s likely to end up burning the motor.
Which controller do you have? 72530 is 6kw nominal but 24kw peak. This controller set unlimited can easily fry a 205 50H and a 273 40H.
Im currently helping someone tune their 72450 (200a dc) on a stealth with 205 50H 20” wheels and have field weakening off for now which self limits to 50-55mph, 80a. Later when hes ready for speed we will turn on field weakening and set ratios in speed to pull current down from 200a to about 150a, and wire up BOOST and then set the timer based on what his motor temperature sensor shows.
From there we can allow more amps for fewer seconds or fewer amps for more seconds. But the master tuning instrument is that temperature gauge behavior. Without that you really have no idea whats going on at the windings,
For your setup same fundamentals apply but you have no way to know when you reached the limit until the motor starts smoking. So if you feel its already on the ragged edge, i wouldn’t push it much harder than you were.
And your battery needs some work. Normally LiFePO4 cannot handle high C discharging. It will get hot fast and degrade fast. 50AH i would only pull 50a continuous, 100a max for 60 seconds , 150a for 10 seconds. But it really depends on how your battery behaves.
If you need help getting your BMS set to give better battery behavior let me know.
@@imho7250 the lifepo4 battery is gone. I have a custom built Sony murata vtcta 50ah 72v 400a xiaoxiang Bluetooth smart bms in the bomber so power is no longer the issue, my motor is
@@imho7250can you help me with my tune? I got a fardriver controller nd72360 for a bosch hub 1.300watts 2,4 peak. And a 60v 43 ah battery. Butt last time i could do more amps because it schutting of. Now i changed fieldweakeing from7 to 6 and now it can take more amps before going into project. The power is how i want it on this lvl 80 amps only it shutts of if you hold gas open to long. Has this to do with the rpm s to high ? I have no clue what im doing and if its possible to keep this much power and torgue or do i still need to upgrade rhe battery from 60 to 72 ?
Its clear u know lots more on this topic 😂
My fardriver is ND96530. How to connect it?
Follow the labels on the wire or the wiring diagram. The only exception is for the LIN signal to the display you might need to use the brown boost wire, not the blue or purple wire.
Is there any specific wire you are not sure how to connect it?
@@imho7250 I can't set Boost pin in app
@@imho7250 I can't change boost pin in app
@@imho7250 My builder wiring brown to ground for boost like diagram. But i don't known why boost don't work.
@@trinhvietquan , because brown isn’t really boost, brown is LIN for the display. If you have a button for boost you need to use one of the unused wires and assign it as boost in the settings.
What about motor temp? Can anything be done with that?
@@dcktater7847 do you mean the can you change the motor overtemp settings? AFAIK they are not adjustable via the app. Default is about 160c.
If you don’t have a real temp sensor like the KTY83-122 (which should be selected if you have it), you can use CACU temp simulation and calibrate it to read higher than actual so that when the motor is about 100c actual temp the gauge reads 160c and shuts down the controller.
I think there is a way to change the 160 settings using a text editor but thats slightly advance and could brick the controller. To do that you need to save the config file which ends in .h and then using text editor manually change the 160 to 120 and the restore setting to 110 or so, then upload that file to your fardriver. To me this setting she no be locked but should allow you to set any reasonable range like 80c-200c or whatever the max safe winding temperature on the market is.
@@imho7250 i dont know if i dare the last option...but deceiving seems okay. Tho i dont want the controller to shut on me that'd be very bad at 120 kph. Some reduced power would be okay like with the votol...it's just too tedious looking at it all the time...i think this is my last air cooled motor i'm sick and tired of overheating...
@@dcktater7847 you can only deceive if using CACU which is already deceitful on its own. Lol. If you have a real temp probe it’s best to stay with that.
No doubt liquid cooling would be great. Every real EV has it. I would like to see a teardown on some of the liquid cooled ebike motors. I wonder if they offer significantly higher continuous current or just provide a shorter cooldown period after a short burst of 400% max continuous power.
@@imho7250 It's currently in progress here. I'm modifying a rickshaw motor to water for a small car. And also a sotion fw11 is in progress for the race bike it should be shitting out 35kw cont so it's gotta be good. I dont have too much doubt that it'll be good it's gotta be soo efficient that it's not even funny i bet that it'll be perpetually air temp. Like what's the wattage we are talking here a few kw? A car produces hundreds of kilowats of heat and it has the same water envelope as my motors. I mean water is a 3000 times better colling agent than air. But i'll also make sure that the windings are in direct contact with the alu house. Heat going through the iron core through all the nomex and shit isnt very good you can cool the case all you want but if there's no proper contact with the copper core it's all useless...
I dont know how far the 138 could be taken tho so far i didnt let it above 100c...the winding can take 150 sure but i'm worried about the magnets...
@@dcktater7847 , many EV motors also cool the rotor by sending oil or some non-conductive coolant through the rotor shaft.
I would also like a low viscosity oil to immerse the rotor and stator windings in with some forced circulation through a heat exchanger.