We hear a lot about this story but what really happened I don't think anyone will ever find out all know you can look at the data as much as you like what what is the real truth... i5 from Chester UK 🇬🇧👍
This is the best information source in this accident. I have a small amount of experience with carbon fiber/epoxy and I'm aware of the structural integrity issues. It's a bit hard to believe that Stockton Rush had background in engineering, It seems like his ambition over-rode his sensibility.
I work in QC and testing. When I heard the submarine failed, the fist thought i had was about your point. We also call that TIS or time in service. In aviation, sub parts are subjected to overhaul after a certain number of hours. TBO or time between overhaul. I agree with your point.
For Lockridge, the engineer, this has got to be the worst feeling. He was right, he tried to stop it and was fired and sued for his well founded concerns.
Yeah, I am wondering what's going through his head. His response to the world is "No comment" but inside this must be "I told you so" in the worst kind of way.
Old retired Engineer here, mostly worked in Aerospace. I think you covered this very well. I would like to touch on 2 points if I may. First off is redundancy. When we build experimental aircraft, we try to figure in back up systems. You touched on this with the inability to navigate, locate, and exit the craft. Unlike most airliners flying today that have a whole backup system for comm, hydraulics, navigation, even the artificial horizon, this craft had little to no backup systems, from what I have seen. Second is the fact that Engineers get constantly surprised even on the simple things. I recall that the Galaxy C-5 Starlifter was found to have the main supports turned to powder on the inside, showing no signs of stress on the outside. The only way to determinate this was through a destructive test. While Carbon Fiber is a remarkable material, it is not a "one size fits all" material. The people probably never knew what hit them. From what I was told, the implosion took 2 nanoseconds, and it takes 4 nanoseconds for your brain to register pain from your nerves. Thank you your thought out presentation, I think you covered it very well. Also for letting me put my 2 cents in. Smiles.
@Kutzbill They may have felt nothing during the implosion, but they would've know they were in danger because the hull had an integrity warning system, they had jettisoned the bottom ballast so we're attempting to surface when it imploded.
A slight correction, I think you meant to say milliseconds and not nanoseconds. The implosion of the sub (given the dimensions of 670cm x 280cm x 250cm), and assuming they were at 13,000 feet under water, the estimated implosion time would take about ~4.50 milliseconds. Depending on the type of nerves, the human body would feel pain after about ~30 milliseconds. Given this information, they should have not felt any pain and died almost instantly.
@@pauld3327 Indeed, as a schoolboy, I visited the cemeteries in Normandy, and it was not until seeing them with my own eyes that I understood the scale of what had happened there in WW2. Similar story for visiting the sits in Ypres for WW1. It gave me a way better respect for everything that had happened than any book or movie ever did. Seeing history with your own eyes is often the best way of truly grasping it. Obviously, for a site the Titanic, the technical challenges make this much harder, and we shouldn't overlook that, but in principle, there's nothing wrong with going to see it. On the contrary, it might be the best way to learn about the incident, if it can ever be achieved safely.
Well it could be a tourist attraction just has to be done right. But people who are smart enough to do things like that aren't allowed to have that kind of money
The fact that it didn't have a surface radio beacon or bottom sonar beacon is astounding. The CEO really did cut corners that cost him and his customers lives. What other corners did he cut? What possessed him to use carbon fibre for the main hull?
I am wondering, with all the corner cutting. If the company will be held responsible for this tragedy, I understand this was classified as catastrophic, and I know what that means. I am now looking at QC and the manufacturing cuts to make this contraption.
@@Mandalynn_Bay I'm sure the families will be taking legal action. It looks like there were multiple construction, maintainance, testing and safety failures.
@@Zurvan101 meanwhile - these were wealthy people who have lawyers and resources - who willing agreed to sign a "death" release with which to travel in a vessel (not certified) deep into the ocean. Yet did any of them ask - what happens if they died during their excursion? Did anyone ask - WHO PAYS the millions of dollars for sending out search, rescue & recovery teams and vehicles? OR is that something they laughed off? Sorry, but arrogance isn't an excuse and yes, I do blame their arroagance just as much as I blame Oceangate. This wasn't an accident. Sorry, I don't want to pay for their carefree lifestyle and choices
@@111dcormack It's more of an indication of the corners that were cut. If there failed to include rescue beacons, what else did they fail to include? Proper non destructive testing between dives?
I’m a retired nuclear submarine mechanic of 33yrs. Every thing that I touched to repair I and a QA inspector had to sign our name and badge number and the date for every nut and bolt that was to be torqued. Like I told my apprentice, “I want you speak out if you think something is wrong because, “if you fail, I fail, if I fail you fail and that is not an option, the boat depends on us”!
My brother is an extremely gifted machinist. Around 35 years ago he worked at a shop that got a government contract to work on submarines. I don't recall if he said nuclear. He was the ONLY machinist trusted to machine the sub parts because if his machining measurements were off by a tiny amount, the very expensive piece of equipment became scrapped. Thank you for your work on those submarines. It's comforting to know there was someone with integrity working on them, like my brother.
Great video. I’m a Mechanical Engineer with 40 years of experience and am appalled at what the owner of OceanGate did with this project and the lack of following basic engineering protocols and procedures to verify the safety of the vessel for multiple dives with passengers. If the owner wanted to risk his life fine. But I’m sure the Father did not understand the risk he was undertaking with his son. The saying “You don’t know what you don’t know” is so true. What the owner did is criminal in my opinion.
Exactly. Sure they signed a waiver but were they fully informed about material stress, the pressure challenges, and the lack of safety standards? If they really fully informed their clients they likely wouldn't have any clients.
He was a honorable man since he died an honorable death due to his own actions, he knew the risk and so did the passengers, honorable men died do the impossible.
The hull was made of two different materials, carbon fiber and titanium. I would assume that those materials deform differently under such extreme pressure. Wouldn't that create a huge additional risk of failure at the joint between them?
@@rljpdx "break" is maybe not the right word. When carbon breaks it is more like a explosion. A lot of archers had bad expirience with a breaking bow and lost their eyesight. Windblade fragments of a windmill spread over 300m when the windmill fails.
Passengers said they could hear cracking when they were in the sub. One guy said he was allowed to drive it and could tell when he was going deeper because the cracking sounds would increase. When you hear cracking, you're hearing the fibers of the carbon fiber breaking OR you're hearing the resin that holds the fibers together breaking or both. When you hear cracking, your carbon fiber part is now weaker, even if you can't tell there is anything wrong with it by looking at it.
What really happened? It dove halfway down. Discovered a problem with the integrity issue of the hull. Dropped weights and was attempting to return to the surface when the hull imploded. End of story.😢
@@birdytaken I'm talking about passengers on the sub on previous trips taken in the same sub that eventually imploded. They heard cracking while they were under the water. Those crack sounds were the sounds of the carbon breaking, the epoxy resin cracking & breaking and ultimately the carbon hull weakening. Whatever the passengers that died last Sunday heard, we will never know. If they heard anything, they heard some cracking sounds. The CEO probably told them those sounds were normal. When the hull actually imploded, none of the passengers knew a thing. Death was faster than their brains could register what was happening.
@@CarbonGlassMan yeah I understand you were taking about a previous dive but carbon fiber shatters like glass when it’s faulting it would have imploded. Do you have a link to the article you read I’m interested in reading it
@@underthetornado I don’t think they were trying to drop weights. There are a couple of people who have said that in interviews with no source what so ever. Always be careful
Nice video Ricky! I'm an electrical engineer with about 45 years of experience, and the attitude Stockton (may he rest in peace) articulated, that at some point, safety becomes pure waste horrified me. We should NEVER put human safety on a back burner like that. Yes, there are always risks in any endeavor, but the risks must be managed, not ignored.
"We" did not put human safety on the back burner. The passengers put their own safety on the back burner. It is an element of the human experience. "We" should not have exhausted the resources in search and rescue/recovery efforts. The big dogs with the big bucks who forked out $250k could have funded it in advance if they desired it. MYOB. They were seeking to go down in history as pioneers but instead go down in history as dumba$$e$ with more money than brains.
Ironically, there would have been more lives saved had the Titanic been equipped with the appropriate number of life boats. The reasoning behind this was the White Star Line didn't want the appearance of the actual compliment of boats needed to be off putting to potential passengers.
@@salleebagno4390imo his dad was naive and taken advantage of as well. "We've gone down almost 4 times" "well he doesn't like fishing but loves the water...." probably thought it would be something they actually talk about and bond over. You don't spend 250k on a kid and 10 hours locked in a tube if you feel like there's no connection. That's so heartbreaking for me. Yes he was arrogant and pompous in a way similar to the owner, took advantage of his workers to hoard wealth, but that's the sliver of humanity I saw in him.
I just feel extremely bad for the young man that perished in this disaster. He didn't even want to go but he wanted to bond with his father so much he threw out his fears and went anyway. That bothers me a lot.
You are right about the issues with carbon fiber. My father worked in aerospace, and most of what he designed is still classified so I've heard about very little of it aside from a few satellites as they were declassified and parts he worked on for the shuttle. He mentioned the issue with carbon fiber after the roof of several airplanes tore free in Hawaii. Carbon fiber cracks from the inside out and is incredibly difficult to examine unless you have the proper equipment Metal tends to show signs of surface deterioration, so one can often determine that there is an issue. When power to weight is crucial (military aircraft, etc.) the risk is worthwhile, but otherwise carbon fiber is taking a huge risk. This is especially true for a craft that will get compressed to this extent. Each pressure cycle could be doing serious damage without the company being aware.
It was mentioned in another video, that the construction was a carbon fibre composite, ie a sandwich construction with another material being the meat between the carbon fibre layup on either side. This type of construction is stronger than say pure carbon fibre panels. However the strength relies on the bond between the sandwiched material and the carbon fibre being one hundred percent. Any voids in the bond would weaken the construction. The only way of knowing that it was one hundred percent would be to carry out NDT (None destructive testing). As has been mentioned this was never done following construction or after any dives.
I don't doubt the discussion came up prompted by the Hawaiian incident, but that was aluminum. That said, it's a great illustration of how a rigorous testing & cert regime can help solve problems & prevent failures. Metal fatigue is better understood than carbon fiber fatigue & so they were able to take the findings from that incident & quickly pinpoint areas to look at on other 737s - my recollection is that a number of planes were found to have similar issues & then either repaired or taken out of service.
The Hawaiian passenger jet being mentioned was hundreds of cycles over the required limit; in other words, it was an old aircraft that was supposed to be decommissioned, but was extended I suppose for other reasons.
I work in carbon fiber manufacturing. I am not an enginerd, I'm just the guy that takes the plan and lays the carbon up, and actually makes the parts... As soon as I found out how this was built I was shocked. The coefficient of thermal expansion and the compressibility of the Carbon tube and the TI end caps was a recipe for disaster under these kinds of pressures. It's just bad engineering. If we get to look I suspect we will see that the failure happened at the joint where the carbon and TI met up with each other. The sub was obviously robust enough to survive a few dives but really they should have been taking X-rays of the vessel for failures after every dive.
Honestly don't think anyone would have stopped to check the submersible in any case. The headline reason would have been " tourists go radio silent for x hours in exotic submersible"...and would have resulted in investigation of communication equipment. Unfortunately, in this case, not taking extreme caution when engineering the vessel, and lax regulatory oversight. But, that would have been expected if the company over promised capabilities. So, do the mega containerships that sit heavily in the water require rigorous tests of their hull integrity over x operational hours per design engineering? Is that an oversight or unwarranted concern?
The end caps were only attached by some type of “strong adhesive” is it just me or does that sound a bit crazy? Wouldn’t parts typically be secured by something stronger? Or have multiple layers? Such shoddy workmanship, so many shortcuts & a sub par design. I’m not surprised there was a catastrophe, only that it didn’t happen sooner
That was the 1st thought when they went missing, that some type of fatigue had occured. It can be a small peice the size of a penny. At least it happened b4 they knew what hit them!
The thing I find the most unforgivable, is that the son didn't want to go, but he felt pressure to please his dad, and went. That's what's the real tragedy.
I feel the same with my dad when i was 16 years old i wanna do always what my dad want to do take me 14 years to understand do what you want if you got the feeling inside dont do it 🙏
Wow! This video explained in more detail and was easier to understand than most videos and comments on this unfortunate disaster. Well done! Thank you so much.
Here's what I think happened. The device was, to a degree, a success. However, after the 2nd or 3rd dive the "service engine soon" light went on. Rather than isolate the reason, Stockwell chose to remove the light bulb. Anyone hear anything about that?
Oh damn is that really what happened. I feel awful. He was way too young to risk his life like that. I can’t believe his father wanted him to go. Especially if the boy was scared. I mean i can’t imagine doing the trip while you are terrified the whole time. It would be traumatizing for anyone claustrophobic or scared of the ocean or scared of the situation in general.
@@stellamariss3335 I see it differently - as overcoming your own fear for the other person. Sure, it's uncomfortable, but fighting fear is never comfortable. I've had many situations like this (including swimming in the sea) and I always felt like I might die. But that's how fear works. If the boy went there with his father, it means that he did not let his fears win.
The more I hear, the more shocked I am that it survived as many dives as it did before this happened. As the phrase goes, "Regulations are written in blood." So many corners cut, so many lessons from the past ignored, and so much ego on Rush. Sadly, this ended in a predictable fashion and it cost the lives of five people. At least I take some solace in knowing that they all died instantly and without pain.
Yes. However, they almost certainly must have known that they were in mortal danger prior to their instantaneous death by implosion. According to James Cameron, pressure sensors would have gone off before the event. He also said that members of the diving community related that the Titan had dropped its weights in order to begin to ascend. That would certainly have been absolutely terrifying especially for the kid whose aunt said he did not want to go down there because he was afraid, but he went because his father wanted him to go with him on Father's Day.
Great presentation! Thank you for that thorough explanation as to what happened. At the end of the day, five lives were lost and no amount of money in the world will bring them back.
James Cameron himself voiced concerns about the composite hull on repeated dives. He didn't say anything before the accident because he assumed an engineer would flag the weakness. And an engineer DID flag the weakness. They fired him. A tragedy.
Both Cameron and Bob Ballard knew that all the crew were dead on the Monday, but did not want to burst the bubble of positivity and hope which surrounded the "rescue" mission.
SPOT ON! The day after they went missing, a video showed how this craft was built. When I saw that and knowing that communication had just stopped abruptly close to the bottom, I commented that I was sure the craft had failed. That was at least a couple of days before they found the debris. I was absolutely shocked when I saw how they made that thing. I am a physicist and an aerospace engineer, and although not a materials engineer per say, I have a very good appreciation of such things. Carbon fiber has tremendous tensile strength, which is why we make rocket boosters out of it, since the pressure is on the inside, producing tensile hoop, stress, that the carbon fiber is very good at handling. But in compression, carbon fiber is nothing more than a wet noodle! It is insane to have made such a submersible from this material. Steel, titanium, and glass All have tremendous compression strength, which is why they are used on every other submersible. Heck, he might’ve been better off, making the darn thing out of concrete, since concrete has high compression strength as well. Just to be clear, I am jesting when I suggest making it out of concrete (just so some fool doesn’t take off with that ridiculous idea). But almost seriously, one could at least argue that concrete would’ve been a better material than carbon fiber for this application. This just shows how a combination of ignorance, and not understanding true physics and mother nature, combined with hubris, is always a prescription for disaster.
My fear when I saw the design was the Carbon fiber tube was basically glued to titanium end piece. Ì would guess Carbon Fiber, Titanium and Epoxy have different expansion and compression characteristics and therfore micro failure points causing desalination. I believe the end piece was located by Rovs. Once they bring it up we will know.
James Cameron is not just a great director and producer. He’s actually super well educated in submersible designs along with a plethora of other super advanced intricate things in life. He over engineered his challenger craft and made sure it was safe and he said himself he never once worried about his hull integrity while making the titanic dives or even the Mariana Trench dive. You worry about things not working like robotic arms and lights or ballast removal systems and coms but you never worry about your hull because you over engineered it to withstand much deeper depths.
John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jesus Christ loves you all!❤✝
@@andrewbetsargis92 I know you're botting, but what a comment to put under a video about how 5 people died. Guess they didn't believe in God hard enough
@@bsrbck Your point is well taken. It's not so much that I disagree with anything you've said, however this was a private venture, undertaken in international waters, with an experimental craft. I'm not sure how this could or would be regulated, though common sense says that it should have been. Perhaps going forward it will be, but James Cameron interjecting would, sadly, likely not have prevented this tragedy. Hard to say. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Maybe he didn't feel it was right to engage the authorities against a private citizen exercising his own free will? Having said that, creating the illusion that the craft was safe, accepting sizeable fees to take civilians on these dives could arguably be considered criminal. There were certainly concerted efforts to present the operation as legitimate and scientifically sound & safe, which is why billionaires would entrust their lives (and that of their son) to this effort. Once you begin accepting money from private citizens, the stakes have been raised. Though, what's the difference between this and Bezos going into space, taking an 18 year old paying customer aboard Blue Origin? What if that had gone wrong? Not sure there are good answers, but one thing is for certain, this was a horrific end to what began as a neat idea, and it's too bad the poor folks who perished put their trust in a man who's arrogance, delusion or ambition was more important than their safety.
i appreciate the video and the way it was formatted! i never heard of your YT channel before, but i appreciate the way you convey the story with an engineering perspective a lot of the internet (mostly social media) likes making jokes out of tragic events like this. comedy and tragedy are closely linked so i understand it. levity is also important for me. but something about the uncanny horror of what these people experienced in the last minutes of their life just makes the jokes stir me the wrong way. the internet's been a somber place wherever i see jokes like this. that said, hearing from different engineer YT channels who discuss the events and mechanics involved, and place blame on the malpractice that was involved has been helpful for me, and i think many others, to understand the depths of the tragedy and how avoidable it should have been. all that aside, thank you again for the video, and the time involved in making it!
The fundamental design flaw for this vessel is that the designers forgot that "You can't push a rope." All fiber composites have their greatest strength in pure tension. Such materials are ideal for pressure tanks, which have a hoop stress of pure tension. The Titan, however, was not a pressure tank, it was a type of vacuum chamber, where the hoop stress is pure compression, and depended on the integrity of the resin matrix for its strength. Repeated cyclic compression along the fiber axis will cause microscopic separations to accumulate between the fibers and the matrix, eventually leading to microscopic fiber buckling. Fiber composites are highly anisotropic materials, and the designers did not take this property adequately into account. Failure in tension is radically different from failure in compression for these materials. Metals are almost completely isotropic in their mechanical properties and do not have this problem. Metals also have some ductility and will get stronger by work hardening before they ultimately fail. Fiber composites behave more like brittle materials and their fatigue life is not well characterized, especially under cyclic axial compression conditions. They fail suddenly and without warning, even when their application loads them mostly in tension. When the Titan hull suddenly failed, it was crushed by an immensely powerful water hammer powered by enormous momentum which probably turned most of the fiber composite mass into fine dust which will never be found. The underwater implosion of the Titan could conceptually be compared to the implosion of a plutonium nuclear bomb pit like the Trinity 'gadget' (without a subsequent nuclear fission reaction).
I am not an engineer, but I do understand pressure ratings, and carbon fiber. The very fact that Mr. Lockridge was fired, and sued by Oceangate for telling the truth: He should be awarded a huge multi million dollar sun for that wrongful termination. This is such a tragedy. The lose of those lives is inexcusable.
you understand how moronic it was to say carbon has not been studied enough but yet in the same breath say Boeing is flying x plane made from carbon fiber lmao.. please i cant.
He'll have to get in line. I bet they'll have less money to show (on the books) than a Liberian-flagged oil tanker, or an impeached former President's former campaign manager.
@@mica122213 the wings experience far less pressure than that sub, it also has a lot less problems to worry about. Would be interesting to see how he did his carbon parts though, I get a feeling it wouldn’t be to aerospace standards, and wonder if he even used 3d woven or just used normal stacked twill
I feel bad for the kid that was on board the most. He didn't want to go, but he did just because he wanted to do something nice for his father, since this was over fathers day weekend.
@@rexxbailey2764 people need to listen to their gut more. Young people are ignorant and have little life experience. This is coming from a young person.
@@InaworldofloveNO HE WASNT. UR INSANE. AS IF THE DAD KNEW HE WAS GUNNA DIE AND HIS SON KILLED. THIS IS A FATHER WHO SPENT A LOT OF MONEY SO HIS SON AND HIM TO SEE THE TITANIC. STOP WITH THE LIES THAT HIS KID DIDNT WANNA GO AND HATED IT.
This was exactly what I was thinking. The fact it survived several trips beforehand meant that it was capable at going to those depths, but probably some minor damage accumulated as a result of those previous trips was what caused the implosion this time. The fact that they did no NDT's of any kind is astonishing...
Submersible experts said after X number of trips under pressure the materials would degrade over time so a safe structure would have to be replaced prior to any issues…which is what a true explorer would do but is antithetical to a businessman chasing profit. This was inevitable. Like folks that die climbing Everest, don’t feel sorry for them, they gambled their lives for a cool vacation
I barely ever made it close to the Titanic in other trips. That should have been warning enough. This is what happens when rich people get bored. The interview with the father and son who turned this "trip" down is insane. Stockton only cared about himself. There's no reason he had to take others down with him.
Does anyone know if the passengers had to sign any sort of liability waivers? My son had to sign several waivers just to skydive tandem with a seasoned instructor, so that's somewhat the basis of my question. Thanks to anyone who would know the answer and for a reply.
You don't even have to be an engineer to understand the basics of this failure--just some elementary physics. I can't even imagine what this looks like to an actual engineer. When I first learned about the construction of this sub, my jaw was on the floor. This will be studied for decades to come as a classic example of groupthink.
I couldn't imagine being in a nice warm luxury ocean liner, then see and feel ice cold sea water rushing in. That had to be so scary, in the dark especially at the end of the Titanic.
I often think about the poor souls that were locked below because they were considered second-rate passengers. That they knew what fate awaited them. Truly inhumane and tragic.
I’m not an engineer or rocket scientist and your presentation didn’t require me to be. Clear and concise for those of us interested in how this tragedy happened. Sounds like it was a matter of when never if. I look forward to watching more of your videos. I’m never too old to learn something new! Thank you
I want to add that it appears all the don'ts to avoid a catastrophic failure was ignored here. Every single one of them. This thing looks more like a planned mafia hit than a negligent accident.
I am both, also designed unmanned submersibles for the US Navy to 3000m. Paul-Henri Nargeolet was an expert in the field & he signed on. The acrylic viewing port was only rated for 1300m. The only time tested materials for deep sea manned pressure vessels are steel & titanium, aluminum for lesser depths. There is an interesting technical writeup on composite submersibles (i.e. Titan) dated 5/10/2017. Also the viewing port in another link. TH-cam does not allow links in comments.
Engineers made this thing. Now all of them are coming out of the woodwork hollering, "oh, a *real* engineer would never do it this way!" Guess what. A real engineer *did* do it this way. This is because the egg heads got too obsessed with numbers and physical stuff. They never studied how to cultivate love (which they'd learn in a decent humanities course) and therefore lack any justification to go on living. STEM people are given way too much unearned power despite never being trained on their duty to use it appropriately.
Crazy to think that the CEO might have thought if he went down with his ship, the world would view him as a martyr and a hero, but in reality we are all out here criticizing his lack of responsibility.
military also overcharges for hardware just like Apple does I'm an I T guy Dell helpdesk formerly I've seen Apple pricing for repairs and know the breakdown of prices for replacent parts. Apple had iPhone 6 battery issue I laughed at supposed discount price to replace batteries.
Just stumbled on your show in my feed! Super informative and eye-opening. New subscriber and I've shared to a couple of friends! Thank you for the hard work and the content! Rest in peace to the souls that needlessly lost their lives do the to the careless owner.🙏💔😔
It's haunting how Ocean Gate met a tragic end on its way to view another vessel that met a similar fate. If you look into the building of the Titanic, it's eerie how similar both companies cut corners and ignored sound science to achieve their goals. So sad.
Its not haunting or tragic, its idiot humans being greedy instead of doing the right thing, like for instance, not having enough rescue life boats on the titanic.
How is this twice as long as the CBS post yet a million times more informative? Fantastic work. Crazy to live in this new age where niche youtubers do a better job at reporting on events then the news.
You are seriously asking why anyone can deliver better and more accurate informational video that any major media outlet? Please don't say that you actually trust major new media with truthful information of any type.
Very good video. I liked the way you have explained this very unfortunate disaster. These people didn't have a chance and never knew it. Very sad and the people that own it are LIABLE as you can be. No doubt.
I feel so badly for the boy and his mom. He didn’t want to go because he was afraid but his mom urged him to go to make his father happy. I can’t imagine how the guilt the mother will carry her entire life for not trusting her son’s intuition but making her child do something so dangerous to make the father happy.
I don't pity the mother, if that was my child I would've at least done research on it before letting him do it and I would never force him to do something as jarring as this when he doesn't even want to. We're not talking about going on a car trip where he can just suck it up to make the father happy. She was thoughtless and ignorant and so was the father
Teachable moment: don't use composite materials when designing a vessel that is going to be subjected to insane pressure. Also, don't use half assed parts for a vessel that is going to be subjected to insane pressure. Look at the cost and the time and engineering and the materials and testing that went into the submersibles that Ballard and James Cameron used, as well as those used by the Navy and legitimate deep sea rescue companies. They all have one thing in common-they all came back to the surface in one piece.
This is just my opinion. As a retired professional model maker and a layman student of engineering, I was shocked to see Oceangate "glued" the Carbon Fiber to the Titanium end bells. A composite chemical bond to steel will always be the weak point under extreme stress.
your 100% corrrect im 100% sure this is epoxy[glue] joint failure......epoxy is not rated for that environment and dissimilar materials have different reaction to such pressures...hench breached and imploded. 100% sure.
Yeah, that video of the ends going on was incredible. Where the hull mated with the end ring, the glue joint looked only be an inch or two deep. Blows my mind that no one in the team thought that was at the very least, questionable.
Composites themselves are not appropriate for deepsea submersibles, the mix of materials makes it prone to water ingress which makes them not a suitable hull material, unlike steel, titanium or acrylic which are traditionally used.
Even welded metal alloys need a strict procedure to make sure the welds are flawless in this type of construction...I can't even imagine with glue.....
Retired USAF IG Team member here and this is a superb video. There is very little gained in human submersible dives to depth, that an ROV can not do. True it gets one physically closer the the wreck, but you still can’t reach out and touch anything. The externally bolted on entry/exit discards what we learned from Apollo 1. What troubled me the most was the lack of critical, independent third input, testing and ongoing evaluation.
You allege that a, "Retired USAF Inspector General is HERE", so why didn't you allow him to make a comment? However, even if he did, he's merely someone assigned to a team that investigates alleged crimes committed by Air Force personnel. How does he know ANYTHING about the engineering of privately owned submarines?
@@tjmmcd1 I stated “Retired USAF IG Team member here” what you quoted was wrong. I have no idea why you had to shout “general”. From what you have said, you know nothing about what a military IG team does, or how it does it. There are basics that cross all branches.
I’m in school to be a stationary engineer. As soon as I found out how this was made and how many dives it made, I had a pretty good idea of who happened. Sad for the families of the people onboard. This was 100% preventable.
@@PetsNPatients I was given access to the case brought against Ocean Gate in 2018. They had brought over a British expert to oversee the construction of the Titan. He relocated his family. As time passed, the expert became deeply concerned that Ocean Gate were only interested in being the first company to take passengers down to the titanic. They cut corners and only cared about the dollars they would earn once the submersible was in action. He told his bosses at Ocean Gate that he would stop construction until tests were carried out. OG fired him. He brought a case against Ocean Gate for the cost of relocating his family and the shoddy work OG wanted to overlook. He won his case and was awarded a very large sum. Now, the greedy ego of Rush & Ocean Gate has become fish food. They are also guilty of manslaughter..
You meant to tell me using inflexible materials like carbon nano-tubes over something flexible like steel is a bad idea??? Well I never would have guessed.
I want to point out one thing because so many people only give credit to James Cameron even though this person is the real genius behind it all. Don Walsh reached the deepest known part of the ocean in 1960 and then helped James Cameron reach the same place in 2012. I hope people see this and credit the true hero of this amazing feat of engineering.
This drive to make a name for yourself by being the first to do this or that can lead to many disasters for others. I personally don't care about these people who do this. They are not heros to be worshipped or admired. They are just rich glory seekers.
@@twinwankel Well if we did not have these types of people, you would not have electricity, a car, no weather forecasts, planes, ships, etc. Heck you would not be living on this Continent, as those explorers would never sailed across the seas. There would be no Space exploration I could go on forever. Do you really think it will stop? I hope not, I hope they investigate, figure out what went wrong, fix it and perhaps more people that like this sort of thing could go and see with their own eyes the Titanic. Not my thing, but who am I to push my journey on this earth onto another. What about the Challenger that exploded in the 80's?
This was very informative and easy to understand. Thank you for making this video. Also, a treasure hunter almost went on that mission and got lots of valuable video about his journey with OceanGates. And it was mentioned in some parts of how they already had some problems with the Titan. That was already red flags in my view.
That was excellent. My dad was a nuclear engineer and I was at Trident submarine base in Navy. Engineers don't get the credit they deserve because I found them to be responsible and cared about safety.
That's because they know exactly what can go wrong. Others can say, nah it'll be alright, while an engineer might say, the hull ia cracking and we're 4 km down. It was an honour. Kaboom.
Hi mate, I've seen experts say US Navy use the same and/or very similar controllers for several of their submersibles. Whilst using them might sound crazy as hell to the average guy, it's not as nuts as it might sound. Did see a guy saying a wired controller is better than a wireless one though?
@@BirthOfAnEmceeTV Latest gen Fast Attack boats use Xbox controllers for the photonic mast (fancy periscope) and some weapons systems. These are the old well understood ones by Microsoft and the Navy has a contract so they keep making them with extra quality control. They don't drive the boat though,ä and definetld all wired. But yeah lots of systems use it. It replaced a 40k dollar joystick that kept having problems in the fast attack boats. So now they just have a drawer of the finest Xbox controllers Microsoft makes. Plus everyone is already well familiar with them. Don't have to teach anyone below 50 how to use one.
@@BirthOfAnEmceeTV That's correct. Anything with wire is statistically more reliable than its wireless counterpart. You may test it by using bluetooth earbuds. Although I think you are right about game controllers being used in military, I suspect they are custom made with tested components. Electronic components also have a grading system. For example, the same component that can be used in a home appliance can't be used to make electric vehicles due to safety concerns. To build an EV, you have to use EV rated components. I speculate that's the same with the controllers.
not to be insensitive but if my dad's father's day present required signing a waiver acknowledging that i may die, or be horrifically injured... sorry dad, i'm not going... and neither are you
What is so sad is the 19 yr old that was terrified, and only went because it was Fathers Day, not wanting to disappoint his Dad...He must have had strong premonition, or normal fear....an earlier dive passenger said there was a long contract with the word Death many times....I can just imagine!! Very good report, it really explained it well. They just thought, it did it once, it is safe. Wow.
Or the young man googled the company. The safety issue information was available. As he Aunt said , I’m glad it was so quick his brain didn’t register it.
Thank you so much for the informative video. I've been fascinated and devastated by this story, and the more I learn about it the sicker it makes me. At the end of your video, you question whether or not the passengers REALLY knew what the risk was. I can almost assure you, they did not - and I will say I could see myself trusting this guy, Stockton Rush, claiming all he claimed, with his background, etc... and just the excitement around it all. How tragically deceiving Stockton Rush was. Either that or he was so narcissistic and ego-absorbed that he really believed his own shit.
I’m currently an engineering student who took an ethics class last semester. The entire curriculum was dedicated to investigating engineering failures and the reasons behind them. The tragedy we spent the most time on was the Challenger, and it sounds eerily familiar to what happened with the Titan: Safety procedures weren’t thoroughly carried out, material deterioration wasn’t taken as seriously as it needed to be, focus was placed more on publicity than caution, and those who raised concerns were silenced and punished. It’s heartbreaking to see disasters like this repeat themselves throughout history. People are incredibly curious, and it is a worthy endeavor to explore, but we need to remember why we do it in the first place. It’s important that we understand the need for caution, listen to each other when improvements can be made, and learn when it’s best to hold back and learn a bit more before someone gets hurt.
That's really interesting, thank you. History is there to be learnt from and let's hope this can be learnt from so we don't repeat the same mistakes again. I should imagine there will be some interesting discussions in the coming weeks, months and years in the engineering academic institutions around the world!
This feels like the Space Shuttle but where all the risk factor dials were turned up to 11. The Shuttle feels like one of those engineering case studies where fixing just one of the faults could have prevented the catastrophe. If it wasn't so cold, if the pressure to launch wasn't so great, if the materials science was better understood, etc. OceanGate feels like any of the systemic failures could have caused the catastrophe. Using an Xbox controller? Coulda. Losing comms for 4 hours at a time? Coulda. Hatch openable only from the outside? Coulda. Carbon fiber? Coulda. So many opportunities for catastrophic failure, loss of crew and vehicle. You would have to fix all of them to make it a safe vehicle.
Wait until you get into the real world and see how those ethics go right out the window. Cutting corners and fibbing data is incredibly common. It was laughable for me the first few years, now its just a part of the job
ur pathetic assumption like most assumes you can eliminate all risk and they would have lived otherwise, shows how stupid you are.. you never eliminate risk and with all ur bs and assumed actions they should have taken you assume that would have made them live? wrong. buhbye
I would say died from arrogance. One can be ignorant, but knows he is and listens to advice from more knowledgeable people. They ignored warnings due to their arrogance and died for it.
This was very insightful and extraordinarily well-done. My father was an engineer. A few things he told me stuck with me, one of which was single materials are much stronger and more reliable than composites. He worked for an aviation corporation and resigned, after they refused to listen to his caution about a design flaw. Two test pilots were killed in the inaugural run. Even though he had tried to prevent the accident to the point of resigning, it always haunted him that two good men were killed for no good reason other than corporate greed.
I don't agree that single materials are stronger. The opposite is often true, for instance car windshields are made of several layers, plywood is made of several layers, and that is done specifically for increased strength. It all depends on how it is assembled and the how the materials relate to each other.
@@MacNerfer laminated car windscreens ARENT stronger, they just dont shatter as normal glass does Which makes them SAFER as the occupants arent being pelted with shards of shattered glass. Just like composite armour plating was NEVER as resistive as homogenous armour plate. Ply wood sheets as a function of area and depth are not even close to a single equivalent fblock of wood. Its just easier and cheaper to make larger areas of wood from ply. Ply uses cheap woods glued together. See above composite armour.
I teach system safety engineering at MIT. This video is shockingly good. The general lessons should be taught to all engineers (but usually aren't). And it is explained so simply. I will be showing this in my safety engineering classes.
I was involved in Quality Assurance for over 30 years and let me tell you QA Managers/Directors are ALWAYS the first people fired by unscrupulous companies. I've been through it and I know. Thank you so very much for your concerned, and intelligent video!
James Cameron had a pretty good point about the carbon-fiber hull, pointing out that carbon fiber's strength applies when it is under tension, but deep ocean diving puts it instead under compression. This probably caused more damage and degradation to the hull than expected. He even posited the pressures at extreme depths could cause water to infiltrate the mesh and start delaminating it.
@iloveaviation-burgerclub-a8145 Yeah I'm of the mind that carbon fiber is an incredible material but it isn't a Solution To Everything, it has to be used _correctly._ Would be excellent on aircraft and spacecraft, because containing pressure inside a vessel puts the fibers under tension, where they're strongest. Containing a low-pressure environment against a high pressure exterior is the exact opposite of what carbon fiber is good at.
Carbon fiber laminate has not been tested or studied in compression to any significant extent. Epoxy is easily infused with water at sealevel pressure. At those depths I can imagine much greater and significant infusion in spite of attempts to form a moisture barrier. Even fiberglass surface vessels delaminate and blister over time.
Wow this is the most important video that I ever watched in years. I'm a mechanical engineer with just two more classes to go. I just got hired at a big fortune 500 engineering firm. After going through the engineering program no one ever stressed "the why" it was so important to be exact, getting an A+ in a class is great, but why get that A+. I think engineering students would strive to be the best they can be if they treated a problem such that a person's life may be at risk if our team gets this wrong. Super great video by the way.
I can’t believe that the disrespect for specifications for safety were just explained away as not important. The saying goes “just because you can does not mean you should”. Thank you for explaining this is a way that non engineers can understand.
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Big respect for the man that was uncomfortable about a safety aspect, and spoke out knowing at a minimum it would create incredible friction in the workplace. Most of the thousands of marine experts that have appeared in these comments would never have the courage and values to do this, or even understand the courage that can take.
@@trisin You would be surprised the risks people will take to not get fired when it comes to money, or have a lot riding on a job such as a family to feed. Humans brains do not grasp the concept of long term risk well. If you knew a cigarette would kill you in a day, nobody would smoke. But because it MIGHT kill you painfully and slowly in 20 years time, people don't think it will happen to them and continue to smoke. If people knew the submarine would catastrophically fail tomorrow, of course every single person here would speak up. But because it MIGHT fail at some point in the future, we disproportionately place our own comfort in a job first. See also: Chernobyl
Must admit, I was skeptical when I ran across this. I was a Submariner for 20 years in the US Navy, 4 different classes of Boats. Your explanation of the pressures experienced and common reference points was very well done. The discussion of using propulsion to overcome “unexpected” positive buoyancy indicates a lack of understanding of buoyancy characteristics of the craft. As to repairs, again, not NDI / NDT. The quality control off submarines with respect to seaworthiness and ability to be safe at depth is prodigious. Great discussion!
Oceangate clearly were extremely ignorant about the physics and materials involved. Throwing a huge amount of validated knowledge and design out the window instead going with experimental construction using poor material choices. The CEO boasted about not listening to people who did know what they were talking about. This is what happens when you don't hire qualified people, ignore and fire qualified people, and dismiss any feedback from any knowledgeable person. It's the arrogance more than anything else. These completely incompetent people thought they were way smarter than they were. And a bunch of people died because of that.
Carbon Fiber only works best when subjected to TENSION. It behaves terribly when subjected to compression or shear stress which is what an under-water vessel's operating environment is.
it clearly imploded because carbon fiber is horrible at compression and they had 3 tons per sq inch pressing on the front and rear of the tube causing it to explode.
@@Gukworks yes. a composite uses resin to hold together. carbon fiber is a composite, you cant get 1 solid tube of carbon fiber without gluing together carbon fiber which is small fibers. but that wouldn't matter if you have 3 tons of psi front and back. look at how it explodes when cars crash and multiply that by 1000.
As a retired submariner I take no pleasure in death below the surface. That said, the lunacy of using an untried material for your hull and taking to those depths astounds me. The lack of anything similar to the SUBSAFE program should have been a huge red flag to everyone. As sad as it is, hubris and the power of the sea made this inevitable.
Hello fellow 50 year old ex submariner he didn’t want to hire. My theory on the failure point is that acrylic window in the titanium dome. They’ve been recovering wreckage. One thing they’ve recovered is that dome and they lifted it into the support ship with a big red strap through the hole for that acrylic window. The fact it was rated for 1/3 the depth they were going and it’s complete absence in the recovery makes me think that was failure point one.
@@DanielMcGuire-hv9zs I did see that, Could have failed imploding, or been blown out by diesel effect. IF (and I use caps to stress not yell.) the rumors of "Crackling" sound in the aft are true it would make sense for the viewing window to have blown out and that would take the ring with it, which is also missing. Maybe the final report will say but probably not... I hope so future designers need to learn from this even if it is a "This is why we do not (insert long list here)...
You can't easily crush an egg by pressing the ends of the egg but you can crush it from the sides. Oceangate's owner did not respect the pressure at that depth. Previous subs were sphere shaped and made of solid titanium.
correct.....end bell caps of the sub found intact.the first debris thety found but..the carbon middle shell......shattered in pieces...still not found...
@@zteaxon7787 I think the story is that the rich guys pushed the crew to travel at night, or something like that..because they had to be at a fancy event at a certain date...if i remember correctly, they rich guys ego was sure that the ship was "unsinkable"
According to the movie which James Cameron said his research team did a pretty good job to provide as accurate information as possible. One of the wealthy tycoons wanted the captain to lit the last set of boilers for the engine despite they have not been 'run in'so the ship could reach New York a day ahead and make news headlines, so they were traveling too fast for the rudder to make quick turns to evade the iceberg. Another point was the Titanic didn't carry enough lifeboats because the boats created too much clutter on the deck and wasn't deemed aesthetically pleasing.
I’ve read that the Titan had only made two successful trips to the Titanic wreckage before it imploded on the third trip. It’s mind blowing to me that Stockton Rush didn’t realize that the carbon fiber would weaken drastically after only one trip... or was he just willfully negligent? I fully support litigation against OceanGate. Safety was completely disregarded. Sending love to family and friends of those lost. 💜
i think he probably had a bit of a god complex and could never imagine that anything bad would ever happen/could never fathom the sub growing weak with each trip. those who communicated with him have been coming out lately saying that he seemed to wholeheartedly believe that it was safe. crazy.
I just feel sorry for the 19 year old, he had his whole life in front of him... I don't think he understand at all what he was doing but just trusted his dad. It's just very sad.
Pretty sure I saw something about him getting pressured by his dad to go on the trip with him according to his aunt. Don't trust my word for it tho, look it up urself to make sure
What I find interesting is that youtuber who actually went on mission 3 and there was constant issues with the titan. It’s really interesting how Stockton himself saw all the issues and still thought it was ok to go down days later. The guy has literal footage of oceangate workers talking how the systems weren’t working properly and how every single day they pushed back visiting the titanic due to the weather and other concerns. I really think there was more going on than what was released to the public. Hopefully we learn everything soon and the families get peace
I watched that video and I respect the guy sharing it with us. It's a historical insight into the safety concerns. More studious & proper testing should have been done before advertising the dives and risking other people's lives.
the guy literally gambled with all their lifes. i bet he felt like he had to impress these billionaires for the future of his company and thought something like "one last time, it's probably going to be fine and after that i'll use the money and popularity-gain in order to overhaul the sub". unfortunately the sub already was way past the safepoint of uses, which realistically probably is only 1-2 times maximum. that made total failure of the sub with fatal outcome quite a real possibility, maybe even more likely than a succesful run that time around actually. pretty insane to just take that risk and hope for the best, especially with other people involved. like the guy definitely had some serious issues. either he knew about the high risk, didnt give af and willing took it without informing anyone, or he was straight-up delusional.
As an airline captain, and owning my own airplane, I understand about the lifespan of each part; and how serious we have to take it. Thank you very much for doing this. I was mesmerized.
Yes, the word is certification. As you know for aircraft, air worthiness directive (AD), and how many thousands of them are there. This submersible had no certification from any official body.
Your explanations...are on point. Very well done. I'm been curiously seeking more information on this incident. To date you have the best explanations based on science and data
As a layman with only human biology as my academic background, it doesn’t take an engineering degree to understand that materials, break down with wear and tear and to be put under such immense strain mission after mission ! To not have something such as a GPS locator is totally insane! You should have every single possible worse case scenario covered! Crazy
They're actually was a beacon. That's why I want everything losing power and the beacon also losing power, totally pointed to an implosion from beginning
OUTSTANDING sir!! I have an aerospace engineering undergrad degree and have been in US Department of Defense Aviation maintenance and logistics for 36+ years. Your report here and analysis is SPOT ON. So many red flags I picked up on the more I found out about OceanGate. Thanks for this report...
Being an Jet Engine mechanic at a German Airline i really wonder how this operation ever even got underway and was allowed to operate!!!! In Aircraft Maintenance and Aircraft Servicing one has so many rules to know and to follow through , so many controll and checksheets to sign just in order to keep an Aircraft flying ,one has regularly to check up oneself on new Orders by your Airline or by the Manufacturer of parts and pieces . Any mechanic or servicecraft got tested out regularly on procedures and knowlegebase, is there no such thing in place for some Underwater Tourismthing in the US. Jeez , if so , good luck for you??
@@michaelstramm2366 that’s exactly what he said in the video. There is no checks and balances over deep sea exploration like there is over the sky’s. So these people who ran/owned this company were able to make these decisions to cut costs and corners on their own.
@@lemonlime1192 Wow, that really bugs the hell out of me!!! My reasoning is : all those checks and rechecking on aircraft, be it about any Side of the aircraft technically or by law are in place because it was taken that any aircraft is an dangerous thing to the people who have them in operation or if they are just bystanders by the law. Meaning any aircraft can fall out of the sky upon people unawares or bits and pieces can do either, just as i understand the laws aspect side on this! And now everybody knows or is at least aware to the fact that the deeper one dives the more pressure is on any kind of Body the more harm could happen to you just mechanical!!!! Everybody is aware that Congress and the United States Navy hassling about billions and billions of $ in order to built and operate U-Boats that are save enough and silent enough to go all the way to whomevers coast and are having a pretty good Chance to come back intact and with everybody aboard safe and sound! And here some privately owned company just can go unhindered and unchecked by any laws , just for some $ to wank out of some dumb people who just wanted to have something to brag about for personal reasons only without even having any technical or laws checks and controlls to observe ?? Hard to swallow by me.
As someone who has no engineering background, this is by far the best video I have come across, watched and listened to about this situation. I’m in a science field, understanding the need for stringent, repeatable testing and repeatable results to prove safety and efficacy and why standards and safety protocols are put in place, but your explanation of all the different details I have no knowledge about was easy to understand and gave me the information that I was looking for (ex: the amount of pressure one would feel at that depth to better understand the catastrophic implosion and why after coming to that conclusion from the wreckage why they immediately deemed no survivors, along with why there are likely no bodies to be found). And all the other info leading up to the event is also useful to see why this unfortunate incident happened. Thank you!!
I keep hearing people ask, ....What happened to the bodies?.... The best answer I can give them, is that they were not only cooked in extreme heat from compressed air molecules, but also vaporized into gel. It's like shrinking yourself to the size of a pea, and being inside of a cylinder in a car engine on its firing stroke.
@@hockeyteethright. Why this video is useful. Once you hear how many pounds that amount of pressure under water is equivalent to, you’re like, yeah, your body is toast and is probably is billions of pieces 😢
If you want a bit more perspective, the implosion would have felt like strapping 45kg (roughly 100 pounds) of TNT to your body and all the explosive forces directed inward, they were gone faster than you can flip a light switch, so in some way fortunate that they felt nothing.
@@gavincrouchthank you! It definitely helps give us non-engineers a better sense of what happened. It’s sad to say that the most fortunate thing of this accident is they felt no pain and that it happened so quickly that there was likely no time for them to even process what was happening
Hi Ricky, as a former naval submarine operator I agree with you that equipment fatigue is the cause of this bad accident. I served on submarines for almost ten years. Every three months the boat was checked for hairline cracks. As you mentioned, the number of deep dive movements is an important factor in the aging of the material the pressure skin is made of. In military submarines, the pressure skin is made of high-yield steel. This is completely annealed so that a homogeneous strength of the entire pressure skin is made. Thank you for the clear explanation of this terrible accident. Jan van Marwijk the Netherlands.
Rush is like a modern day Icarus, his hubris caused him to ignore whatever limited him to his end. Sadly, when the mythological Icarus took a major risk and melted his wings by flying too close to the sun, he only killed himself and not four other people who trusted him to provide a safe craft.
As a retired Electrical and Mechanical engineer our main tasks were to pressure test vessels to pass annual hydraulic testing...the fact that this vessel had to endure over a 1000Bar is incredible that shortcuts were taken
I don't even want to use an off brand, low end controller at home let alone when it's the one thing that might save my life (gaming already did actually)
@@AllanFolmI assume you'd test to a pressure beyond that of what you're expecting to endure. So while it might be 350+ bar at that depth, you'd probably want a vessel that handles beyond that pressure.
And I bet most of the pressure vessels you tested (if not all) were the vessels for containing the INTERNAL pressure. And here the composites are quite good at resisting stretching so the composite scuba tanks are quite good, being lighter than steel or aluminium.
Even if the main structure of the sub had been approved, certified, replaced every dive, tested etc There are a number of reasons I would never have got into that vessel. Poor communications, no location beacon, no emergency systems to counter being bolted in from the outside. The use of a games controller...seriously?!! It is one thing to challenge frontiers, it is quite another to take your safety and the safety of others so casually! I took more precautions camping on Dartmoor as a child!!
Even not knowing what was used to get down to the Titanic, I said I would never crawl inside that thing to see anything at that depth in the ocean. Now learning was was used in crafting that craft, I am blown away they indeed crawled inside to even submerge into a swimming pool-much less the ocean. I guess none of those people were used to being told NO!
I simultaneously acknowledge that creating a submarine capable of reaching the Titanic using a lot of off the shelf parts is extremely impressive (it's insane to think that it actually worked, and more than once), but it's also insane that they didn't do more testing, ESPECIALLY when selling seats to "tourists." That's just reckless.
What else can be expected from a narcissistic CEO.. Not only in this incident but disasters do happen when someone in authority fires persons who raise genuine concerns just because they're so ambitious in realising their own "dreams" and putting others lives at stake..
This place is the grave of alot of unfortunate people whom died horrific deaths let's respect this final resting place of there's and let thied a horri cx
I said the same thing. Every deep dive puts stress on the structural frame of the submarine. If they dive once successfully then you have to inspect the frame and strengthen it again or retire it. If a US military submarine has deep limits a home built sub isn't going deeper than a military submarine that's built from steel.
As far as depth limits of military submarines, they are a lot larger. Surface area plays a huge role into the total force something experiences from ocean pressure. It would be impossible to take a military sub to the Mariana trench because no known material is strong enough in that big a surface area, unless you made it so thick that the sub was hugely negatively buoyant.
@@TimpBizkit great point. I work in the pipeline industry and am constantly educating people on this fact. Psi is pounds per square inch - there are a lot more square inches on a military sub than this thing.
Hearing James Cameron say he knew it imploded on Monday, and so did the entire submersible community was the saddest part of this; because they all knew it was unsafe.
I think there needed to be absolute proof before the media could be told the craft imploded and all lives were lost. I wonder what that banging was that was heard in the final hours. False hope, unfortunately.
The way you explained that even a 7 year old can understand it...thank you for making it so clear on how things can go wrong so fast when one test one step is over looked.
You are a first person to talk about material fatigue, which is such an obvious fact. It's unbelievable that they would keep using the same sub over and over.
The only reasonably safe method of testing, would have required a second center section. Steel plates with hooks could have been bolted at each end, to allow it to be weighted, then lowered to the depth of the Titanic repeatedly, until it failed. Using the section they had would have been pointless, since they could have raised and lowered it 100 times, then discovered that it failed on the 101'st To check for variations, ideally they should have used at least 3 test samples. In reality, I suspect that failures during the tests would have made them look for an alternative design.
I've talked to a number of people who said, "I sure would've hated being on the FIRST trip that vessel made to 13,000 feet below the ocean!" And my response has always been, "Do you think the SECOND expedition was safer? After X number of trips the thing is a GONER, and we don't know what 'X' is yet."
7:00 "The vast majority of marine and aviation accidents are a result of operator error," because marine, aviation, and space vessels are always designed to avoid mechanical failures, and are extensively tested and certified beforehand. That is the reason why 'most' accidents, as Mr. Rush had it, are due to operator error, since other things are usually ruled out during the design and construction process.
It's not that honest.. and not that informed either. He does a good job of playing and sounding the part, but fails when it comes to what he focuses on. He BARELY mentions delamination, but that is what most likely caused it to fail. Almost certainly, even. For those who don't know, carbon fiber is multiple layers of a very thin sheet that are wrapped and glued to eachother. When you build a craft out of it, since the pressure comes from the outside, it's highly likely that it will start having delamination at pressures as high as this. They likely never tested the pressure hull to these depths over and over again, and especially not with months in between tests.
For example at 12:00 he doesn't mention that the person filing the complaint did so after they got fired. That's not only a crucial piece of info.. But it's also the only time this content creator mentions delamination in this video.. which is almost certainly the mode of failure that lead to this disaster. So he isn't just uninformed, he's also obfuscating facts.
@@supernova11711his aunt discussed this. She stated he was afraid and concerned about the voyage. He only went for his father. Another father/son backed out after looking things over.
As a formal submariner, in the United States Navy your information is very accurate. I thank you for sharing the information and you’re right, a sub has a lifecycle before that vessel is retired.
The shenanigans at Oceangate, especially with the whistleblower, reminded me of the Challenger disaster and Roger Boisjoly, the engineer at Morton Thiokol who raised serious concerns about the safety of the O-ring seals prior to launch but was ignored and silenced by NASA and his own superiors at Thiokol.
I've seen videos of other Titanic visits by Oceangate subs. They did not instill confidence. Knowing what I know now, they instilled terror. Yet most of the passengers were as chipper as chipmunks. They acted as if they were on a harmless joy ride. It amazes me how those people trusted their lives to a company and vessel they knew nothing about.
It’s interesting because almost a year ago, news channels were reporting Ocean Gate to be this new fun company dedicated to submersible tourism. It’s actually haunting how happy everyone looks in the news segments I saw. Yet, none of them mentioned how seriously unsafe these dives were. You can see the news segments on TH-cam. This is just a reminder why looking into something and not automatically believe what you see on tv is so important.
Most people (myself included) have a very limited understanding of how planes or trains work and certainly are not in a position to personally assess their safety, yet they use them everyday. I don't think you need to fully understand every vehicle you travel on, you just need to check that it is operating in accordance with proven regulations.
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One of the things I found as a red flag is the people he hired to engineer the sub. 25 yr old airplane engineers.
We hear a lot about this story but what really happened I don't think anyone will ever find out all know you can look at the data as much as you like what what is the real truth...
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Diversity hires are happening with commercial airplane pilot's. I will never fly due to this unethical practice.
This is the best information source in this accident.
I have a small amount of experience with carbon fiber/epoxy and I'm aware of the structural integrity issues.
It's a bit hard to believe that Stockton Rush had background in engineering,
It seems like his ambition over-rode his sensibility.
I work in QC and testing. When I heard the submarine failed, the fist thought i had was about your point. We also call that TIS or time in service. In aviation, sub parts are subjected to overhaul after a certain number of hours. TBO or time between overhaul.
I agree with your point.
For Lockridge, the engineer, this has got to be the worst feeling. He was right, he tried to stop it and was fired and sued for his well founded concerns.
so very true, imagine the book deals he must be getting right now
Look up Roger Boisjoly. He predicted the Challenger disaster, tried to stop it, but was overruled by management.
Yeah, I am wondering what's going through his head. His response to the world is "No comment" but inside this must be "I told you so" in the worst kind of way.
Reminds me of Cassandra from greek mythology. How horrible to know what will happen but be powerless to stop it.
Cash is king. Gotta look good for the investors. Whether that be the private sector or government.
Old retired Engineer here, mostly worked in Aerospace. I think you covered this very well. I would like to touch on 2 points if I may.
First off is redundancy. When we build experimental aircraft, we try to figure in back up systems. You touched on this with the inability to navigate, locate, and exit the craft. Unlike most airliners flying today that have a whole backup system for comm, hydraulics, navigation, even the artificial horizon, this craft had little to no backup systems, from what I have seen.
Second is the fact that Engineers get constantly surprised even on the simple things. I recall that the Galaxy C-5 Starlifter was found to have the main supports turned to powder on the inside, showing no signs of stress on the outside. The only way to determinate this was through a destructive test.
While Carbon Fiber is a remarkable material, it is not a "one size fits all" material.
The people probably never knew what hit them. From what I was told, the implosion took 2 nanoseconds, and it takes 4 nanoseconds for your brain to register pain from your nerves.
Thank you your thought out presentation, I think you covered it very well. Also for letting me put my 2 cents in.
Smiles.
@Kutzbill They may have felt nothing during the implosion, but they would've know they were in danger because the hull had an integrity warning system, they had jettisoned the bottom ballast so we're attempting to surface when it imploded.
“The horror, the horror”, if I may be so bold as to quote Conrad.
What If there was only a small crack and cold water filled inside the tube.
@@a_nayak At that depth it would've imploded.
A slight correction, I think you meant to say milliseconds and not nanoseconds. The implosion of the sub (given the dimensions of 670cm x 280cm x 250cm), and assuming they were at 13,000 feet under water, the estimated implosion time would take about ~4.50 milliseconds. Depending on the type of nerves, the human body would feel pain after about ~30 milliseconds. Given this information, they should have not felt any pain and died almost instantly.
It's a cemetery not a circus attraction. I'm sorry for the lost and their loved ones but it shouldn't be a tourist attraction.
I live in the north of France and over here, tourists come to see battle fields of WWII and military cemeteries.
I don't see any problem with that...
@@pauld3327 Indeed, as a schoolboy, I visited the cemeteries in Normandy, and it was not until seeing them with my own eyes that I understood the scale of what had happened there in WW2. Similar story for visiting the sits in Ypres for WW1. It gave me a way better respect for everything that had happened than any book or movie ever did. Seeing history with your own eyes is often the best way of truly grasping it. Obviously, for a site the Titanic, the technical challenges make this much harder, and we shouldn't overlook that, but in principle, there's nothing wrong with going to see it. On the contrary, it might be the best way to learn about the incident, if it can ever be achieved safely.
The idea of turism to the Titanic is no problem, the problem was the CEO and the sub par submarine that he built.
Political figures with powerful tentacles would say : never let a crisis go to waste
Well it could be a tourist attraction just has to be done right. But people who are smart enough to do things like that aren't allowed to have that kind of money
I've watched about 30 videos on this subject.
This is the most concise, informative of them all.
Excellent presentation.
Real engineering did a great job on this topic. Have you seen it?
The fact that it didn't have a surface radio beacon or bottom sonar beacon is astounding. The CEO really did cut corners that cost him and his customers lives. What other corners did he cut? What possessed him to use carbon fibre for the main hull?
I am wondering, with all the corner cutting. If the company will be held responsible for this tragedy, I understand this was classified as catastrophic, and I know what that means. I am now looking at QC and the manufacturing cuts to make this contraption.
@@Mandalynn_Bay I'm sure the families will be taking legal action. It looks like there were multiple construction, maintainance, testing and safety failures.
That wouldn't have helped. You can't rescue an implosion.
@@Zurvan101 meanwhile - these were wealthy people who have lawyers and resources - who willing agreed to sign a "death" release with which to travel in a vessel (not certified) deep into the ocean. Yet did any of them ask - what happens if they died during their excursion? Did anyone ask - WHO PAYS the millions of dollars for sending out search, rescue & recovery teams and vehicles? OR is that something they laughed off? Sorry, but arrogance isn't an excuse and yes, I do blame their arroagance just as much as I blame Oceangate. This wasn't an accident. Sorry, I don't want to pay for their carefree lifestyle and choices
@@111dcormack It's more of an indication of the corners that were cut. If there failed to include rescue beacons, what else did they fail to include?
Proper non destructive testing between dives?
I’m a retired nuclear submarine mechanic of 33yrs. Every thing that I touched to repair I and a QA inspector had to sign our name and badge number and the date for every nut and bolt that was to be torqued. Like I told my apprentice, “I want you speak out if you think something is wrong because, “if you fail, I fail, if I fail you fail and that is not an option, the boat depends on us”!
Thank you for your comment. May I wish you a happy second career?
My brother is an extremely gifted machinist. Around 35 years ago he worked at a shop that got a government contract to work on submarines. I don't recall if he said nuclear. He was the ONLY machinist trusted to machine the sub parts because if his machining measurements were off by a tiny amount, the very expensive piece of equipment became scrapped.
Thank you for your work on those submarines. It's comforting to know there was someone with integrity working on them, like my brother.
Bloody good thing too!
Done a few years working on the Ohio class and all the materials used have a cradle to grave tracking, inspection and end use documentation!
i like you
Great video. I’m a Mechanical Engineer with 40 years of experience and am appalled at what the owner of OceanGate did with this project and the lack of following basic engineering protocols and procedures to verify the safety of the vessel for multiple dives with passengers. If the owner wanted to risk his life fine. But I’m sure the Father did not understand the risk he was undertaking with his son. The saying “You don’t know what you don’t know” is so true. What the owner did is criminal in my opinion.
Well said
People say Stockton Rush was a good man
Exactly. Sure they signed a waiver but were they fully informed about material stress, the pressure challenges, and the lack of safety standards? If they really fully informed their clients they likely wouldn't have any clients.
He was a honorable man since he died an honorable death due to his own actions, he knew the risk and so did the passengers, honorable men died do the impossible.
I agree. The people who made this sub should have refused this job. It’s criminal in my professional opinion (also as an engineer).
The hull was made of two different materials, carbon fiber and titanium. I would assume that those materials deform differently under such extreme pressure. Wouldn't that create a huge additional risk of failure at the joint between them?
Yes it would. I am too tired to give any further information. - over worked senior Mechanical engineering student with material science minor
@laurenarigo3894 I thought that Titanium was a strong material & that Carbon Fiber was a unreliable material
yeah, and carbon fiber is NOT meant to deform. it's meant to break when the breaking point is reached.
@@rljpdx "break" is maybe not the right word. When carbon breaks it is more like a explosion. A lot of archers had bad expirience with a breaking bow and lost their eyesight. Windblade fragments of a windmill spread over 300m when the windmill fails.
Sure
Passengers said they could hear cracking when they were in the sub. One guy said he was allowed to drive it and could tell when he was going deeper because the cracking sounds would increase. When you hear cracking, you're hearing the fibers of the carbon fiber breaking OR you're hearing the resin that holds the fibers together breaking or both. When you hear cracking, your carbon fiber part is now weaker, even if you can't tell there is anything wrong with it by looking at it.
They didn’t understand what they were hearing. If the carbon fiber was actually cracking at the depth it was it would have imploded immediately .
What really happened? It dove halfway down. Discovered a problem with the integrity issue of the hull. Dropped weights and was attempting to return to the surface when the hull imploded. End of story.😢
@@birdytaken I'm talking about passengers on the sub on previous trips taken in the same sub that eventually imploded. They heard cracking while they were under the water. Those crack sounds were the sounds of the carbon breaking, the epoxy resin cracking & breaking and ultimately the carbon hull weakening. Whatever the passengers that died last Sunday heard, we will never know. If they heard anything, they heard some cracking sounds. The CEO probably told them those sounds were normal. When the hull actually imploded, none of the passengers knew a thing. Death was faster than their brains could register what was happening.
@@CarbonGlassMan yeah I understand you were taking about a previous dive but carbon fiber shatters like glass when it’s faulting it would have imploded. Do you have a link to the article you read I’m interested in reading it
@@underthetornado I don’t think they were trying to drop weights. There are a couple of people who have said that in interviews with no source what so ever. Always be careful
Nice video Ricky! I'm an electrical engineer with about 45 years of experience, and the attitude Stockton (may he rest in peace) articulated, that at some point, safety becomes pure waste horrified me. We should NEVER put human safety on a back burner like that. Yes, there are always risks in any endeavor, but the risks must be managed, not ignored.
I totally agree with you @jvd1138. 👍🏽
"We" did not put human safety on the back burner. The passengers put their own safety on the back burner. It is an element of the human experience. "We" should not have exhausted the resources in search and rescue/recovery efforts. The big dogs with the big bucks who forked out $250k could have funded it in advance if they desired it. MYOB. They were seeking to go down in history as pioneers but instead go down in history as dumba$$e$ with more money than brains.
The real victim imo,was the 19yr old Son who was terrified but didn't want to disappoint his dad on Fathers day.
Ironically, there would have been more lives saved had the Titanic been equipped with the appropriate number of life boats. The reasoning behind this was the White Star Line didn't want the appearance of the actual compliment of boats needed to be off putting to potential passengers.
@@salleebagno4390imo his dad was naive and taken advantage of as well. "We've gone down almost 4 times" "well he doesn't like fishing but loves the water...." probably thought it would be something they actually talk about and bond over. You don't spend 250k on a kid and 10 hours locked in a tube if you feel like there's no connection. That's so heartbreaking for me. Yes he was arrogant and pompous in a way similar to the owner, took advantage of his workers to hoard wealth, but that's the sliver of humanity I saw in him.
I just feel extremely bad for the young man that perished in this disaster. He didn't even want to go but he wanted to bond with his father so much he threw out his fears and went anyway. That bothers me a lot.
Yeah I honestly didn't care about any of this till I heard that. Very sad
With that being said, they had the ride of their life together and at those pressures one could imagine they did some serious bonding in a hurry.
No his dad pulled the Father's day card it was Sunday father's day the son begged not to go
As a parent myself I agree and this breaks my heart.
@@DarkRahl69 That's actually funny and I fucking hate you for it.
You are right about the issues with carbon fiber. My father worked in aerospace, and most of what he designed is still classified so I've heard about very little of it aside from a few satellites as they were declassified and parts he worked on for the shuttle. He mentioned the issue with carbon fiber after the roof of several airplanes tore free in Hawaii. Carbon fiber cracks from the inside out and is incredibly difficult to examine unless you have the proper equipment Metal tends to show signs of surface deterioration, so one can often determine that there is an issue.
When power to weight is crucial (military aircraft, etc.) the risk is worthwhile, but otherwise carbon fiber is taking a huge risk. This is especially true for a craft that will get compressed to this extent. Each pressure cycle could be doing serious damage without the company being aware.
It was mentioned in another video, that the construction was a carbon fibre composite, ie a sandwich construction with another material being the meat between the carbon fibre layup on either side. This type of construction is stronger than say pure carbon fibre panels. However the strength relies on the bond between the sandwiched material and the carbon fibre being one hundred percent. Any voids in the bond would weaken the construction. The only way of knowing that it was one hundred percent would be to carry out NDT (None destructive testing). As has been mentioned this was never done following construction or after any dives.
I don't doubt the discussion came up prompted by the Hawaiian incident, but that was aluminum. That said, it's a great illustration of how a rigorous testing & cert regime can help solve problems & prevent failures. Metal fatigue is better understood than carbon fiber fatigue & so they were able to take the findings from that incident & quickly pinpoint areas to look at on other 737s - my recollection is that a number of planes were found to have similar issues & then either repaired or taken out of service.
The Hawaiian passenger jet being mentioned was hundreds of cycles over the required limit; in other words, it was an old aircraft that was supposed to be decommissioned, but was extended I suppose for other reasons.
I work in carbon fiber manufacturing. I am not an enginerd, I'm just the guy that takes the plan and lays the carbon up, and actually makes the parts... As soon as I found out how this was built I was shocked. The coefficient of thermal expansion and the compressibility of the Carbon tube and the TI end caps was a recipe for disaster under these kinds of pressures. It's just bad engineering. If we get to look I suspect we will see that the failure happened at the joint where the carbon and TI met up with each other. The sub was obviously robust enough to survive a few dives but really they should have been taking X-rays of the vessel for failures after every dive.
I work in auto body..bonding carbon fiber to metal always fails. At that pressure and constant exposure to varying temperatures. Salt water..
Honestly don't think anyone would have stopped to check the submersible in any case. The headline reason would have been " tourists go radio silent for x hours in exotic submersible"...and would have resulted in investigation of communication equipment. Unfortunately, in this case, not taking extreme caution when engineering the vessel, and lax regulatory oversight. But, that would have been expected if the company over promised capabilities. So, do the mega containerships that sit heavily in the water require rigorous tests of their hull integrity over x operational hours per design engineering? Is that an oversight or unwarranted concern?
The end caps were only attached by some type of “strong adhesive” is it just me or does that sound a bit crazy? Wouldn’t parts typically be secured by something stronger? Or have multiple layers? Such shoddy workmanship, so many shortcuts & a sub par design. I’m not surprised there was a catastrophe, only that it didn’t happen sooner
Well it was designed at a University and the universities these days have kids brought up on modern education so....
You talk like a materials guy! My engineer hubby was a failure analyst at the naval shipyard, he concurs.
NDT inspector here. Great explanation. I'm absolutely floored no stress testing was done after every use.
I said the same thing. How do they run something like this without an officially tested operational cycle to ascertain the limits
Maybe do a interview with jake that was almost in that 🥺🤦🏼♀️ that could've been him.
That was the 1st thought when they went missing, that some type of fatigue had occured. It can be a small peice the size of a penny. At least it happened b4 they knew what hit them!
The thing I find the most unforgivable, is that the son didn't want to go, but he felt pressure to please his dad, and went. That's what's the real tragedy.
How do you know this info about him not wanting to go?
@@emmerrick4563 an interview with the son's aunt on NBC.
I feel the same with my dad when i was 16 years old i wanna do always what my dad want to do take me 14 years to understand do what you want if you got the feeling inside dont do it 🙏
He sure felt the pressure alright.
@@Itzxkazer hey Alexa play under pressure by Queen ft David Bowie ! hahaha
Wow! This video explained in more detail and was easier to understand than most videos and comments on this unfortunate disaster. Well done! Thank you so much.
The fact that man was fired & sued for doing his job & being genuinely concerned is appalling.
And it was for Father's Day too... Geez...
TODAY THE RIGHTEOUS ARE PENALISED ....IS A SICK WORLD
And VERY American. Corporate interests above all else. Loss of life is collateral damage.
It’s always profit before people. Stockton Rush was an amateur who couldn’t take constructive criticism.
Here's what I think happened. The device was, to a degree, a success. However, after the 2nd or 3rd dive the "service engine soon" light went on. Rather than isolate the reason, Stockwell chose to remove the light bulb. Anyone hear anything about that?
My heart goes out to the young 19 year old who was terrified, but reluctantly went on this trip for his father. RIP.
I can only imagine how angry and upset his mother is
Your heart goes out to him? What does that even mean?
The father should have not allowed the son to go!!🙏
Oh damn is that really what happened. I feel awful. He was way too young to risk his life like that. I can’t believe his father wanted him to go. Especially if the boy was scared. I mean i can’t imagine doing the trip while you are terrified the whole time. It would be traumatizing for anyone claustrophobic or scared of the ocean or scared of the situation in general.
@@stellamariss3335 I see it differently - as overcoming your own fear for the other person. Sure, it's uncomfortable, but fighting fear is never comfortable. I've had many situations like this (including swimming in the sea) and I always felt like I might die. But that's how fear works. If the boy went there with his father, it means that he did not let his fears win.
The more I hear, the more shocked I am that it survived as many dives as it did before this happened. As the phrase goes, "Regulations are written in blood." So many corners cut, so many lessons from the past ignored, and so much ego on Rush.
Sadly, this ended in a predictable fashion and it cost the lives of five people. At least I take some solace in knowing that they all died instantly and without pain.
Yes. However, they almost certainly must have known that they were in mortal danger prior to their instantaneous death by implosion. According to James Cameron, pressure sensors would have gone off before the event. He also said that members of the diving community related that the Titan had dropped its weights in order to begin to ascend. That would certainly have been absolutely terrifying especially for the kid whose aunt said he did not want to go down there because he was afraid, but he went because his father wanted him to go with him on Father's Day.
INSTANTLY IS RIGHT.....LORD..GIVE THEM REST.....AMEN
Great presentation! Thank you for that thorough explanation as to what happened. At the end of the day, five lives were lost and no amount of money in the world will bring them back.
James Cameron himself voiced concerns about the composite hull on repeated dives. He didn't say anything before the accident because he assumed an engineer would flag the weakness. And an engineer DID flag the weakness. They fired him. A tragedy.
People died due stupidity of a company that not only ignores but penalizes voices of competent people. A tragedy? No, this is called a crime.
@@xamidio be fair, the survivors of Titanic also went on to sue
@@xamidi not stupidty crimnal greed.
Both Cameron and Bob Ballard knew that all the crew were dead on the Monday, but did not want to burst the bubble of positivity and hope which surrounded the "rescue" mission.
SPOT ON! The day after they went missing, a video showed how this craft was built. When I saw that and knowing that communication had just stopped abruptly close to the bottom, I commented that I was sure the craft had failed. That was at least a couple of days before they found the debris. I was absolutely shocked when I saw how they made that thing. I am a physicist and an aerospace engineer, and although not a materials engineer per say, I have a very good appreciation of such things. Carbon fiber has tremendous tensile strength, which is why we make rocket boosters out of it, since the pressure is on the inside, producing tensile hoop, stress, that the carbon fiber is very good at handling. But in compression, carbon fiber is nothing more than a wet noodle! It is insane to have made such a submersible from this material. Steel, titanium, and glass All have tremendous compression strength, which is why they are used on every other submersible. Heck, he might’ve been better off, making the darn thing out of concrete, since concrete has high compression strength as well. Just to be clear, I am jesting when I suggest making it out of concrete (just so some fool doesn’t take off with that ridiculous idea). But almost seriously, one could at least argue that concrete would’ve been a better material than carbon fiber for this application. This just shows how a combination of ignorance, and not understanding true physics and mother nature, combined with hubris, is always a prescription for disaster.
Perfectly said!
I'm now tempted to do see a mythbusters style concrete sub test lol.
My fear when I saw the design was the Carbon fiber tube was basically glued to titanium end piece. Ì would guess Carbon Fiber, Titanium and Epoxy have different expansion and compression characteristics and therfore micro failure points causing desalination. I believe the end piece was located by Rovs. Once they bring it up we will know.
Many historical examples for this argument
Well thank you for teaching me about material science. 😊 Very interesting.
James Cameron is not just a great director and producer. He’s actually super well educated in submersible designs along with a plethora of other super advanced intricate things in life. He over engineered his challenger craft and made sure it was safe and he said himself he never once worried about his hull integrity while making the titanic dives or even the Mariana Trench dive. You worry about things not working like robotic arms and lights or ballast removal systems and coms but you never worry about your hull because you over engineered it to withstand much deeper depths.
He has a degree in engineering thats how he got his first gig with Roger Corman who also had a degree in engineering before becoming a filmmaker.
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus Christ loves you all!❤✝
@@andrewbetsargis92 I know you're botting, but what a comment to put under a video about how 5 people died. Guess they didn't believe in God hard enough
Certification! Certification! Certification!
@@bsrbck Your point is well taken. It's not so much that I disagree with anything you've said, however this was a private venture, undertaken in international waters, with an experimental craft. I'm not sure how this could or would be regulated, though common sense says that it should have been. Perhaps going forward it will be, but James Cameron interjecting would, sadly, likely not have prevented this tragedy.
Hard to say. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Maybe he didn't feel it was right to engage the authorities against a private citizen exercising his own free will?
Having said that, creating the illusion that the craft was safe, accepting sizeable fees to take civilians on these dives could arguably be considered criminal. There were certainly concerted efforts to present the operation as legitimate and scientifically sound & safe, which is why billionaires would entrust their lives (and that of their son) to this effort. Once you begin accepting money from private citizens, the stakes have been raised.
Though, what's the difference between this and Bezos going into space, taking an 18 year old paying customer aboard Blue Origin? What if that had gone wrong?
Not sure there are good answers, but one thing is for certain, this was a horrific end to what began as a neat idea, and it's too bad the poor folks who perished put their trust in a man who's arrogance, delusion or ambition was more important than their safety.
i appreciate the video and the way it was formatted! i never heard of your YT channel before, but i appreciate the way you convey the story with an engineering perspective
a lot of the internet (mostly social media) likes making jokes out of tragic events like this. comedy and tragedy are closely linked so i understand it. levity is also important for me. but something about the uncanny horror of what these people experienced in the last minutes of their life just makes the jokes stir me the wrong way. the internet's been a somber place wherever i see jokes like this.
that said, hearing from different engineer YT channels who discuss the events and mechanics involved, and place blame on the malpractice that was involved has been helpful for me, and i think many others, to understand the depths of the tragedy and how avoidable it should have been.
all that aside, thank you again for the video, and the time involved in making it!
The fundamental design flaw for this vessel is that the designers forgot that "You can't push a rope." All fiber composites have their greatest strength in pure tension. Such materials are ideal for pressure tanks, which have a hoop stress of pure tension. The Titan, however, was not a pressure tank, it was a type of vacuum chamber, where the hoop stress is pure compression, and depended on the integrity of the resin matrix for its strength. Repeated cyclic compression along the fiber axis will cause microscopic separations to accumulate between the fibers and the matrix, eventually leading to microscopic fiber buckling. Fiber composites are highly anisotropic materials, and the designers did not take this property adequately into account. Failure in tension is radically different from failure in compression for these materials. Metals are almost completely isotropic in their mechanical properties and do not have this problem. Metals also have some ductility and will get stronger by work hardening before they ultimately fail. Fiber composites behave more like brittle materials and their fatigue life is not well characterized, especially under cyclic axial compression conditions. They fail suddenly and without warning, even when their application loads them mostly in tension. When the Titan hull suddenly failed, it was crushed by an immensely powerful water hammer powered by enormous momentum which probably turned most of the fiber composite mass into fine dust which will never be found. The underwater implosion of the Titan could conceptually be compared to the implosion of a plutonium nuclear bomb pit like the Trinity 'gadget' (without a subsequent nuclear fission reaction).
You said some scientific words in here I've never heard in my life. You're smart. I respect you.
Fantastic explanation mate!
Interesting
That’s beautiful, your writing
You made me feel proud of myself for having understood all that. You have the qualities of a fantastic teacher.
I am not an engineer, but I do understand pressure ratings, and carbon fiber. The very fact that Mr. Lockridge was fired, and sued by Oceangate for telling the truth: He should be awarded a huge multi million dollar sun for that wrongful termination. This is such a tragedy. The lose of those lives is inexcusable.
you understand how moronic it was to say carbon has not been studied enough but yet in the same breath say Boeing is flying x plane made from carbon fiber lmao.. please i cant.
He'll have to get in line. I bet they'll have less money to show (on the books) than a Liberian-flagged oil tanker, or an impeached former President's former campaign manager.
So is Carbon Fiber reliable or not?
@@mica122213 the wings experience far less pressure than that sub, it also has a lot less problems to worry about. Would be interesting to see how he did his carbon parts though, I get a feeling it wouldn’t be to aerospace standards, and wonder if he even used 3d woven or just used normal stacked twill
@mica122213 stress on wings is different from deep ocean pressure dipshit.
Not enough people are talking about Mr lockridge. Good on him for doing his job like he's supposed to and caring about the safety of the product.
o yea if they would have listened to him we wouldn't be talking about this
What a fantastic and precise explanation of what happened to Oceangate Titan. Thank you so much!!
I feel bad for the kid that was on board the most. He didn't want to go, but he did just because he wanted to do something nice for his father, since this was over fathers day weekend.
and still so young rip
PEOPLE NEED TO LISTEN TO YOUNG PEOPLE MORE.
@@rexxbailey2764 people need to listen to their gut more. Young people are ignorant and have little life experience. This is coming from a young person.
@@InaworldofloveNO HE WASNT. UR INSANE. AS IF THE DAD KNEW HE WAS GUNNA DIE AND HIS SON KILLED. THIS IS A FATHER WHO SPENT A LOT OF MONEY SO HIS SON AND HIM TO SEE THE TITANIC. STOP WITH THE LIES THAT HIS KID DIDNT WANNA GO AND HATED IT.
@@hollowharbor Young people can't even comprehend that when they have a penis they are a male. I'll take a hard pass on listening to young people.
This was exactly what I was thinking. The fact it survived several trips beforehand meant that it was capable at going to those depths, but probably some minor damage accumulated as a result of those previous trips was what caused the implosion this time. The fact that they did no NDT's of any kind is astonishing...
I have the leaked audio on my channel. It's pretty sad but sobering.
Submersible experts said after X number of trips under pressure the materials would degrade over time so a safe structure would have to be replaced prior to any issues…which is what a true explorer would do but is antithetical to a businessman chasing profit. This was inevitable. Like folks that die climbing Everest, don’t feel sorry for them, they gambled their lives for a cool vacation
@@prezidenttrump5171 leaked audio of what?
I barely ever made it close to the Titanic in other trips. That should have been warning enough. This is what happens when rich people get bored. The interview with the father and son who turned this "trip" down is insane. Stockton only cared about himself. There's no reason he had to take others down with him.
@@magyaradam The subs final moments. The newest sub.
As an engineer and with Naval submarine experience I totally agree with this video! I hope Oceangate is sued out of existence! This was criminal.
The owner was in the sub too when it happened
Does anyone know if the passengers had to sign any sort of liability waivers? My son had to sign several waivers just to skydive tandem with a seasoned instructor, so that's somewhat the basis of my question. Thanks to anyone who would know the answer and for a reply.
@@tobydrew1 yes. Theres an old video of the ceo making jokes about that tho 😅
@lukasc.5768 Yikes and thanks for the reply.
You don't even have to be an engineer to understand the basics of this failure--just some elementary physics. I can't even imagine what this looks like to an actual engineer. When I first learned about the construction of this sub, my jaw was on the floor. This will be studied for decades to come as a classic example of groupthink.
I couldn't imagine being in a nice warm luxury ocean liner, then see and feel ice cold sea water rushing in. That had to be so scary, in the dark especially at the end of the Titanic.
I often think about the poor souls that were locked below because they were considered second-rate passengers. That they knew what fate awaited them. Truly inhumane and tragic.
I’m not an engineer or rocket scientist and your presentation didn’t require me to be. Clear and concise for those of us interested in how this tragedy happened. Sounds like it was a matter of when never if. I look forward to watching more of your videos. I’m never too old to learn something new! Thank you
Well said.
After listening carefully to the facts this thing sounds like it was perfectly designed to FAIL!! absolutely disgusting!
I want to add that it appears all the don'ts to avoid a catastrophic failure was ignored here. Every single one of them. This thing looks more like a planned mafia hit than a negligent accident.
@@beastprime7668 looks like it's the wild field for such busyness- extra deep tourism.
I am both, also designed unmanned submersibles for the US Navy to 3000m. Paul-Henri Nargeolet was an expert in the field & he signed on. The acrylic viewing port was only rated for 1300m. The only time tested materials for deep sea manned pressure vessels are steel & titanium, aluminum for lesser depths. There is an interesting technical writeup on composite submersibles (i.e. Titan) dated 5/10/2017. Also the viewing port in another link. TH-cam does not allow links in comments.
I’m not an engineer but I think conscientious engineers just got a lot more respect and appreciation!
Engineering ain't no gender studies type degree...
Engineers made this thing. Now all of them are coming out of the woodwork hollering, "oh, a *real* engineer would never do it this way!"
Guess what. A real engineer *did* do it this way. This is because the egg heads got too obsessed with numbers and physical stuff. They never studied how to cultivate love (which they'd learn in a decent humanities course) and therefore lack any justification to go on living. STEM people are given way too much unearned power despite never being trained on their duty to use it appropriately.
@@noelrossbridge2514 what gas this got to do with GENDER?
@@noelrossbridge2514😂😂 wtf are you on
@@AnnaLee33absolutely 0. Nothing. Its a deep ocean vessel lol
Crazy to think that the CEO might have thought if he went down with his ship, the world would view him as a martyr and a hero, but in reality we are all out here criticizing his lack of responsibility.
Martyr...NO!
Murderer...YES!!!
@@gemjourney5210Exactly I recommend reading Wikipedia page for company very telling
The Challenger disaster wasn't due to operator error o rings that's part of Aviation CEO was a moron
@@bajanking43 what is there
military also overcharges for hardware just like Apple does I'm an I T guy Dell helpdesk formerly I've seen Apple pricing for repairs and know the breakdown of prices for replacent parts. Apple had iPhone 6 battery issue I laughed at supposed discount price to replace batteries.
Just stumbled on your show in my feed! Super informative and eye-opening. New subscriber and I've shared to a couple of friends! Thank you for the hard work and the content! Rest in peace to the souls that needlessly lost their lives do the to the careless owner.🙏💔😔
Well said
It's haunting how Ocean Gate met a tragic end on its way to view another vessel that met a similar fate. If you look into the building of the Titanic, it's eerie how similar both companies cut corners and ignored sound science to achieve their goals. So sad.
Classic case of human hubris imo
Its not haunting or tragic, its idiot humans being greedy instead of doing the right thing, like for instance, not having enough rescue life boats on the titanic.
@@markcab2055damn you can’t just let somebody say their own opinion without trying to get yours out huh?
@@eclipped he’s telling the truth though🤷🏼♀️
They are very different. The Titanic followed the science that was known at the time. The Titan engineers did not.
How is this twice as long as the CBS post yet a million times more informative? Fantastic work. Crazy to live in this new age where niche youtubers do a better job at reporting on events then the news.
I suspect news outlets need short, bite sized segments that appeal to a broader audience with varying levels of intelligence and comprehension levels.
You are seriously asking why anyone can deliver better and more accurate informational video that any major media outlet?
Please don't say that you actually trust major new media with truthful information of any type.
CBS isn’t “the news” they’re an entertainment company and advertisement dealer. That’s it!
Oh and they’re propagandists
Exactly right. I couldn’t find anything I thought I could handle until this. TY!
You gotta be literally crazy to lose communication thousands of feet down in the ocean for an hour and not be terrified
It used to be absolutely standard. The Trieste and the other submarine that visited the mariana trench did so without communication to the surface.
@pjsavagejr not even close the comparison hahaha, silly smooth brain
@@pjsavagejr terrible comparison
Or just level-headed... being terrified doesn't help.
I would have passed out from the panic & anxiety. 🫨
Very good video. I liked the way you have explained this very unfortunate disaster.
These people didn't have a chance and never knew it. Very sad and the people that own it are LIABLE as you can be. No doubt.
I feel so badly for the boy and his mom. He didn’t want to go because he was afraid but his mom urged him to go to make his father happy. I can’t imagine how the guilt the mother will carry her entire life for not trusting her son’s intuition but making her child do something so dangerous to make the father happy.
I don't pity the mother, if that was my child I would've at least done research on it before letting him do it and I would never force him to do something as jarring as this when he doesn't even want to. We're not talking about going on a car trip where he can just suck it up to make the father happy. She was thoughtless and ignorant and so was the father
Most mothers would reject the idea heavily
Using kids as pawns is so gross
Wasn't his mom that was his Aunt
Whaaaaaaaaat? Crazy
Teachable moment: don't use composite materials when designing a vessel that is going to be subjected to insane pressure. Also, don't use half assed parts for a vessel that is going to be subjected to insane pressure. Look at the cost and the time and engineering and the materials and testing that went into the submersibles that Ballard and James Cameron used, as well as those used by the Navy and legitimate deep sea rescue companies. They all have one thing in common-they all came back to the surface in one piece.
But you can use glass, apparently. Isn't glass just as brittle as carbon?
He knew. He was cutting cost.
@@ryand141f you're referring to the viewport, it was acrylic
@@ryand141 spherical shape adds so much to the resistance, using a tubular shape creates much weaker points
And all cost a lot more So they were SAFE !!!!!
This is just my opinion. As a retired professional model maker and a layman student of engineering, I was shocked to see Oceangate "glued" the Carbon Fiber to the Titanium end bells. A composite chemical bond to steel will always be the weak point under extreme stress.
your 100% corrrect im 100% sure this is epoxy[glue] joint failure......epoxy is not rated for that environment and dissimilar materials have different reaction to such pressures...hench breached and imploded. 100% sure.
Yeah, that video of the ends going on was incredible. Where the hull mated with the end ring, the glue joint looked only be an inch or two deep. Blows my mind that no one in the team thought that was at the very least, questionable.
Composites themselves are not appropriate for deepsea submersibles, the mix of materials makes it prone to water ingress which makes them not a suitable hull material, unlike steel, titanium or acrylic which are traditionally used.
Even welded metal alloys need a strict procedure to make sure the welds are flawless in this type of construction...I can't even imagine with glue.....
Depends on whether or not it was Elmer’s glue
The fact that a $30 game controller was what steered the damn thing should have been the red flag that says, "nope, amateur on board I'm out."
It was a glorified "I loan this controller out to guests when they want to 2nd player" controller.
Retired USAF IG Team member here and this is a superb video. There is very little gained in human submersible dives to depth, that an ROV can not do. True it gets one physically closer the the wreck, but you still can’t reach out and touch anything. The externally bolted on entry/exit discards what we learned from Apollo 1. What troubled me the most was the lack of critical, independent third input, testing and ongoing evaluation.
You allege that a, "Retired USAF Inspector General is HERE", so why didn't you allow him to make a comment? However, even if he did, he's merely someone assigned to a team that investigates alleged crimes committed by Air Force personnel. How does he know ANYTHING about the engineering of privately owned submarines?
@@tjmmcd1 I stated “Retired USAF IG Team member here” what you quoted was wrong. I have no idea why you had to shout “general”. From what you have said, you know nothing about what a military IG team does, or how it does it. There are basics that cross all branches.
I’m in school to be a stationary engineer. As soon as I found out how this was made and how many dives it made, I had a pretty good idea of who happened. Sad for the families of the people onboard. This was 100% preventable.
Absolutely 😢
@@PetsNPatients I was given access to the case brought against Ocean Gate in 2018. They had brought over a British expert to oversee the construction of the Titan. He relocated his family. As time passed, the expert became deeply concerned that Ocean Gate were only interested in being the first company to take passengers down to the titanic. They cut corners and only cared about the dollars they would earn once the submersible was in action. He told his bosses at Ocean Gate that he would stop construction until tests were carried out. OG fired him. He brought a case against Ocean Gate for the cost of relocating his family and the shoddy work OG wanted to overlook. He won his case and was awarded a very large sum.
Now, the greedy ego of Rush & Ocean Gate has become fish food. They are also guilty of manslaughter..
Sad that his wife now has three loved ones lost, on or near the Titanic. Eery.
@@ivangranger8494 I don't think her ancestor who died on the titanic is really a "loved one." She didn't know that person.
You meant to tell me using inflexible materials like carbon nano-tubes over something flexible like steel is a bad idea??? Well I never would have guessed.
I want to point out one thing because so many people only give credit to James Cameron even though this person is the real genius behind it all. Don Walsh reached the deepest known part of the ocean in 1960 and then helped James Cameron reach the same place in 2012. I hope people see this and credit the true hero of this amazing feat of engineering.
I always assumed James Cameron couldn’t have been the first. People just love to credit him because he’s super famous and powerful.
Don Walsh and Jaques Piccard.
true james also never takes full credit
This drive to make a name for yourself by being the first to do this or that can lead to many disasters for others. I personally don't care about these people who do this. They are not heros to be worshipped or admired. They are just rich glory seekers.
@@twinwankel Well if we did not have these types of people, you would not have electricity, a car, no weather forecasts, planes, ships, etc. Heck you would not be living on this Continent, as those explorers would never sailed across the seas. There would be no Space exploration I could go on forever. Do you really think it will stop? I hope not, I hope they investigate, figure out what went wrong, fix it and perhaps more people that like this sort of thing could go and see with their own eyes the Titanic. Not my thing, but who am I to push my journey on this earth onto another. What about the Challenger that exploded in the 80's?
This was very informative and easy to understand. Thank you for making this video.
Also, a treasure hunter almost went on that mission and got lots of valuable video about his journey with OceanGates. And it was mentioned in some parts of how they already had some problems with the Titan. That was already red flags in my view.
That was excellent. My dad was a nuclear engineer and I was at Trident submarine base in Navy. Engineers don't get the credit they deserve because I found them to be responsible and cared about safety.
That's because they know exactly what can go wrong. Others can say, nah it'll be alright, while an engineer might say, the hull ia cracking and we're 4 km down. It was an honour. Kaboom.
Hi mate, I've seen experts say US Navy use the same and/or very similar controllers for several of their submersibles.
Whilst using them might sound crazy as hell to the average guy, it's not as nuts as it might sound.
Did see a guy saying a wired controller is better than a wireless one though?
Engineering deals with reality broad-based, and has to consider multi categories and disciplines of life.
@@BirthOfAnEmceeTV Latest gen Fast Attack boats use Xbox controllers for the photonic mast (fancy periscope) and some weapons systems. These are the old well understood ones by Microsoft and the Navy has a contract so they keep making them with extra quality control.
They don't drive the boat though,ä and definetld all wired.
But yeah lots of systems use it. It replaced a 40k dollar joystick that kept having problems in the fast attack boats. So now they just have a drawer of the finest Xbox controllers Microsoft makes.
Plus everyone is already well familiar with them. Don't have to teach anyone below 50 how to use one.
@@BirthOfAnEmceeTV That's correct. Anything with wire is statistically more reliable than its wireless counterpart. You may test it by using bluetooth earbuds.
Although I think you are right about game controllers being used in military, I suspect they are custom made with tested components. Electronic components also have a grading system. For example, the same component that can be used in a home appliance can't be used to make electric vehicles due to safety concerns. To build an EV, you have to use EV rated components. I speculate that's the same with the controllers.
I feel so very sad for the boy... he knew better in his gut but the love of his father pushed him to go. Epically tragic
His "intuition" told him no however, he defied his better sense of judgment & lost!
Yea the kid didn't want to let his father down on father's day😢
not to be insensitive but if my dad's father's day present required signing a waiver acknowledging that i may die, or be horrifically injured... sorry dad, i'm not going... and neither are you
Well, I guess we’re all just too smart to have done this aren’t we?
Feels good?
@@domininic exactly
What is so sad is the 19 yr old that was terrified, and only went because it was Fathers Day, not wanting to disappoint his Dad...He must have had strong premonition, or normal fear....an earlier dive passenger said there was a long contract with the word Death many times....I can just imagine!! Very good report, it really explained it well. They just thought, it did it once, it is safe. Wow.
Or the young man googled the company. The safety issue information was available. As he Aunt said , I’m glad it was so quick his brain didn’t register it.
Their were nuts...no way id go down there. Id rather remote control it from above
He's a young 19-year-old man, so he would have signed that paper himself.
I agree, I feel so bad for the young man, all very sad.
You guys are treating the 19 year old like he was a child. If your gonna mourn online than don't pick and choose
Thank you so much for the informative video. I've been fascinated and devastated by this story, and the more I learn about it the sicker it makes me. At the end of your video, you question whether or not the passengers REALLY knew what the risk was. I can almost assure you, they did not - and I will say I could see myself trusting this guy, Stockton Rush, claiming all he claimed, with his background, etc... and just the excitement around it all. How tragically deceiving Stockton Rush was. Either that or he was so narcissistic and ego-absorbed that he really believed his own shit.
Well said
I’m currently an engineering student who took an ethics class last semester. The entire curriculum was dedicated to investigating engineering failures and the reasons behind them. The tragedy we spent the most time on was the Challenger, and it sounds eerily familiar to what happened with the Titan:
Safety procedures weren’t thoroughly carried out, material deterioration wasn’t taken as seriously as it needed to be, focus was placed more on publicity than caution, and those who raised concerns were silenced and punished.
It’s heartbreaking to see disasters like this repeat themselves throughout history. People are incredibly curious, and it is a worthy endeavor to explore, but we need to remember why we do it in the first place. It’s important that we understand the need for caution, listen to each other when improvements can be made, and learn when it’s best to hold back and learn a bit more before someone gets hurt.
That's really interesting, thank you. History is there to be learnt from and let's hope this can be learnt from so we don't repeat the same mistakes again. I should imagine there will be some interesting discussions in the coming weeks, months and years in the engineering academic institutions around the world!
This feels like the Space Shuttle but where all the risk factor dials were turned up to 11.
The Shuttle feels like one of those engineering case studies where fixing just one of the faults could have prevented the catastrophe. If it wasn't so cold, if the pressure to launch wasn't so great, if the materials science was better understood, etc.
OceanGate feels like any of the systemic failures could have caused the catastrophe. Using an Xbox controller? Coulda. Losing comms for 4 hours at a time? Coulda. Hatch openable only from the outside? Coulda. Carbon fiber? Coulda. So many opportunities for catastrophic failure, loss of crew and vehicle. You would have to fix all of them to make it a safe vehicle.
Wait until you get into the real world and see how those ethics go right out the window. Cutting corners and fibbing data is incredibly common. It was laughable for me the first few years, now its just a part of the job
Well said
@@eightlights4939Exactly! Greed is the driving force behind most corporations nowadays and cutting corners is the standard.
What it boils down to is they died over negligence.
My condolences to every family member lost.
ur pathetic assumption like most assumes you can eliminate all risk and they would have lived otherwise, shows how stupid you are.. you never eliminate risk and with all ur bs and assumed actions they should have taken you assume that would have made them live? wrong. buhbye
Speaking of family, what are the coincidences that the founder of Macy's died on the TITANic and his descendant was the captain's wife of the TITAN.
Yes, it really is tragic.
Died from ignorance why would you go down that far anyway 😵💫🤐
I would say died from arrogance.
One can be ignorant, but knows he is and listens to advice from more knowledgeable people.
They ignored warnings due to their arrogance and died for it.
This was very insightful and extraordinarily well-done. My father was an engineer. A few things he told me stuck with me, one of which was single materials are much stronger and more reliable than composites. He worked for an aviation corporation and resigned, after they refused to listen to his caution about a design flaw. Two test pilots were killed in the inaugural run. Even though he had tried to prevent the accident to the point of resigning, it always haunted him that two good men were killed for no good reason other than corporate greed.
I don't agree that single materials are stronger. The opposite is often true, for instance car windshields are made of several layers, plywood is made of several layers, and that is done specifically for increased strength. It all depends on how it is assembled and the how the materials relate to each other.
@@MacNerfer laminated car windscreens ARENT stronger, they just dont shatter as normal glass does
Which makes them SAFER as the occupants arent being pelted with shards of shattered glass.
Just like composite armour plating was NEVER as resistive as homogenous armour plate.
Ply wood sheets as a function of area and depth are not even close to a single equivalent fblock of wood. Its just easier and cheaper to make larger areas of wood from ply. Ply uses cheap woods glued together. See above composite armour.
@@MacNerferRead about what the Russian subs designed to reach the depth of the Titanic used for their teeny windows.
Good people dying for corporate greed is, alas, normal.
I take a drink every time you say "as an engineer".
I teach system safety engineering at MIT. This video is shockingly good. The general lessons should be taught to all engineers (but usually aren't). And it is explained so simply. I will be showing this in my safety engineering classes.
Really, I think this video should be shown to any design class.
I was involved in Quality Assurance for over 30 years and let me tell you QA Managers/Directors are ALWAYS the first people fired by unscrupulous companies. I've been through it and I know. Thank you so very much for your concerned, and intelligent video!
Having worked in QA at a few car manufacturers, I have been on the wrong end of a firing when I was sending back 'too many' cars with paint defects.
Man I work in Aviation QA. My boss is always wanting numbers.
I totally agree. QA and Risk are disposable if you do your job well!
He might have been fired.
But then the ocean fired the CEO...
... Into a million pieces.
Got say you are right. The quality department is often the one that sees the cuts first. I speak from experience.
James Cameron had a pretty good point about the carbon-fiber hull, pointing out that carbon fiber's strength applies when it is under tension, but deep ocean diving puts it instead under compression. This probably caused more damage and degradation to the hull than expected. He even posited the pressures at extreme depths could cause water to infiltrate the mesh and start delaminating it.
a similar vessel was deemed fit to dive 1 to 15 times before the stress could cause serious damage...
@iloveaviation-burgerclub-a8145 Yeah I'm of the mind that carbon fiber is an incredible material but it isn't a Solution To Everything, it has to be used _correctly._
Would be excellent on aircraft and spacecraft, because containing pressure inside a vessel puts the fibers under tension, where they're strongest. Containing a low-pressure environment against a high pressure exterior is the exact opposite of what carbon fiber is good at.
No chance a group of mega wealthy individuals got in that contraption, calling bs on this one.
Tbh I feel Cameron is a very good source for this type of dive, other than a submarine vet.
Carbon fiber laminate has not been tested or studied in compression to any significant extent. Epoxy is easily infused with water at sealevel pressure. At those depths I can imagine much greater and significant infusion in spite of attempts to form a moisture barrier. Even fiberglass surface vessels delaminate and blister over time.
Wow this is the most important video that I ever watched in years. I'm a mechanical engineer with just two more classes to go. I just got hired at a big fortune 500 engineering firm. After going through the engineering program no one ever stressed "the why" it was so important to be exact, getting an A+ in a class is great, but why get that A+. I think engineering students would strive to be the best they can be if they treated a problem such that a person's life may be at risk if our team gets this wrong. Super great video by the way.
have you seen the 45 minute interview with Karl Stanley? bye 'ACE' 'He Tried to Warn Ocean Gate'
@@keithpenny1119 not yet, is that the one titled, "He Tried To Warn Oceangate Of Its Downfall - Karl Stanley"?
@@waleadetona8453 Yes the guy is incredibley knowledgeable and he doesn't hold back about Mr Rush. hold back
I can’t believe that the disrespect for specifications for safety were just explained away as not important. The saying goes “just because you can does not mean you should”. Thank you for explaining this is a way that non engineers can understand.
Ocengate Submarine Disaster - What REALLY Happened
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus Christ loves you all!❤✝
It happens with too much money and not enough brains.
@@lpronovost84 I’m not climbing Everest either, just saying, I could if I trained and trained 5 years of hard work. But I’m not going to.
Big respect for the man that was uncomfortable about a safety aspect, and spoke out knowing at a minimum it would create incredible friction in the workplace. Most of the thousands of marine experts that have appeared in these comments would never have the courage and values to do this, or even understand the courage that can take.
Amen
"It is a wise man who knows where courage ends and foolishness begins."
What? I think many people put safety as their top priority. Pretty bold of you to call all these people cowards and fiends
@@trisin You would be surprised the risks people will take to not get fired when it comes to money, or have a lot riding on a job such as a family to feed.
Humans brains do not grasp the concept of long term risk well. If you knew a cigarette would kill you in a day, nobody would smoke. But because it MIGHT kill you painfully and slowly in 20 years time, people don't think it will happen to them and continue to smoke.
If people knew the submarine would catastrophically fail tomorrow, of course every single person here would speak up. But because it MIGHT fail at some point in the future, we disproportionately place our own comfort in a job first.
See also: Chernobyl
Must admit, I was skeptical when I ran across this. I was a Submariner for 20 years in the US Navy, 4 different classes of Boats. Your explanation of the pressures experienced and common reference points was very well done.
The discussion of using propulsion to overcome “unexpected” positive buoyancy indicates a lack of understanding of buoyancy characteristics of the craft.
As to repairs, again, not NDI / NDT. The quality control off submarines with respect to seaworthiness and ability to be safe at depth is prodigious.
Great discussion!
Oceangate clearly were extremely ignorant about the physics and materials involved. Throwing a huge amount of validated knowledge and design out the window instead going with experimental construction using poor material choices. The CEO boasted about not listening to people who did know what they were talking about.
This is what happens when you don't hire qualified people, ignore and fire qualified people, and dismiss any feedback from any knowledgeable person.
It's the arrogance more than anything else. These completely incompetent people thought they were way smarter than they were. And a bunch of people died because of that.
Thank you for your service from a fellow submariner (USS Will Rogers, SSBN 659, Gold crew, '79-'80).
Great "scale comparison" for depth vs pressure (atm).
Great content! 👊🏻
R.I.P. ...
Carbon Fiber only works best when subjected to TENSION. It behaves terribly when subjected to compression or shear stress which is what an under-water vessel's operating environment is.
both hoop stress and longitudinal stress in compression -- u can use Mohrs circle to combine the stresses
it clearly imploded because carbon fiber is horrible at compression and they had 3 tons per sq inch pressing on the front and rear of the tube causing it to explode.
Does carbon fiber composite use a resin of some sort? Does the resin resist the compression?
Thus carbon fiber would probably be okay for aircraft pressurization. Interesting. Didn't these people know this?
@@Gukworks yes. a composite uses resin to hold together. carbon fiber is a composite, you cant get 1 solid tube of carbon fiber without gluing together carbon fiber which is small fibers. but that wouldn't matter if you have 3 tons of psi front and back. look at how it explodes when cars crash and multiply that by 1000.
As a retired submariner I take no pleasure in death below the surface. That said, the lunacy of using an untried material for your hull and taking to those depths astounds me. The lack of anything similar to the SUBSAFE program should have been a huge red flag to everyone. As sad as it is, hubris and the power of the sea made this inevitable.
I heard they are so rich combined why would they not buy a real submarine or hire one ..
I don’t believe this news it does not add up ..
Hello fellow 50 year old ex submariner he didn’t want to hire. My theory on the failure point is that acrylic window in the titanium dome. They’ve been recovering wreckage. One thing they’ve recovered is that dome and they lifted it into the support ship with a big red strap through the hole for that acrylic window. The fact it was rated for 1/3 the depth they were going and it’s complete absence in the recovery makes me think that was failure point one.
@@DanielMcGuire-hv9zs I did see that, Could have failed imploding, or been blown out by diesel effect. IF (and I use caps to stress not yell.) the rumors of "Crackling" sound in the aft are true it would make sense for the viewing window to have blown out and that would take the ring with it, which is also missing. Maybe the final report will say but probably not... I hope so future designers need to learn from this even if it is a "This is why we do not (insert long list here)...
@@rodento3220 what boats were you on? 618 and 684.
@@rodento3220It's all already known. They were grossly negligent.
You can't easily crush an egg by pressing the ends of the egg but you can crush it from the sides. Oceangate's owner did not respect the pressure at that depth. Previous subs were
sphere shaped and made of solid titanium.
correct.....end bell caps of the sub found intact.the first debris thety found but..the carbon middle shell......shattered in pieces...still not found...
@@10OZDuster pretty sure they won't find bodies either.
Or steel.
@@OugaBoogaShockwave Think tomato paste. Or at best meat sauce.
CEO was callous about safety. .blame is his
best video on this subject I have watched well spoken, well organized great explanations comments . Well done.
It’s eerie how similar these events are to each other. Two voyages carrying people of immense wealth destroyed by one man’s egos and pride
Damn…
What do you mean the Titanic was sunk by an iceberg
@@zteaxon7787 I think the story is that the rich guys pushed the crew to travel at night, or something like that..because they had to be at a fancy event at a certain date...if i remember correctly, they rich guys ego was sure that the ship was "unsinkable"
A lot of the people who died weren’t necessarily rich, first class got evacuated first
According to the movie which James Cameron said his research team did a pretty good job to provide as accurate information as possible. One of the wealthy tycoons wanted the captain to lit the last set of boilers for the engine despite they have not been 'run in'so the ship could reach New York a day ahead and make news headlines, so they were traveling too fast for the rudder to make quick turns to evade the iceberg. Another point was the Titanic didn't carry enough lifeboats because the boats created too much clutter on the deck and wasn't deemed aesthetically pleasing.
I’ve read that the Titan had only made two successful trips to the Titanic wreckage before it imploded on the third trip. It’s mind blowing to me that Stockton Rush didn’t realize that the carbon fiber would weaken drastically after only one trip... or was he just willfully negligent? I fully support litigation against OceanGate. Safety was completely disregarded. Sending love to family and friends of those lost. 💜
i think he probably had a bit of a god complex and could never imagine that anything bad would ever happen/could never fathom the sub growing weak with each trip. those who communicated with him have been coming out lately saying that he seemed to wholeheartedly believe that it was safe. crazy.
I think he was suicidal, knowing this would be the fastest and most painless death possible.
It had made two expeditions of several dives each. that said, there was that power failure on at east one previous dive...
Where was Aquaman?
Correct I did that search as well. There were two trips in 2022 and this was the first of 2023 ...
I just feel sorry for the 19 year old, he had his whole life in front of him... I don't think he understand at all what he was doing but just trusted his dad. It's just very sad.
😂😂😂😂
Pretty sure I saw something about him getting pressured by his dad to go on the trip with him according to his aunt. Don't trust my word for it tho, look it up urself to make sure
@@AverageLia yes he was telling him go get on with him as a fathers day gift
@@Filthy_Larry what is funny
@@TahaMedyaTV the billionaires who are now grapes. That’s what I find funny. Is there a problem?
Just want to comment and say what a great explanation this video was. Awesome work. Keep it up!
What I find interesting is that youtuber who actually went on mission 3 and there was constant issues with the titan. It’s really interesting how Stockton himself saw all the issues and still thought it was ok to go down days later. The guy has literal footage of oceangate workers talking how the systems weren’t working properly and how every single day they pushed back visiting the titanic due to the weather and other concerns. I really think there was more going on than what was released to the public. Hopefully we learn everything soon and the families get peace
I watched that video and I respect the guy sharing it with us. It's a historical insight into the safety concerns. More studious & proper testing should have been done before advertising the dives and risking other people's lives.
@@heathers.9740 You got a link?
@@markm-ci6rjthe TH-camr is DALLY md I believe
@@markm-ci6rj its Dallmyd
the guy literally gambled with all their lifes. i bet he felt like he had to impress these billionaires for the future of his company and thought something like "one last time, it's probably going to be fine and after that i'll use the money and popularity-gain in order to overhaul the sub". unfortunately the sub already was way past the safepoint of uses, which realistically probably is only 1-2 times maximum. that made total failure of the sub with fatal outcome quite a real possibility, maybe even more likely than a succesful run that time around actually. pretty insane to just take that risk and hope for the best, especially with other people involved. like the guy definitely had some serious issues. either he knew about the high risk, didnt give af and willing took it without informing anyone, or he was straight-up delusional.
As an airline captain, and owning my own airplane, I understand about the lifespan of each part; and how serious we have to take it. Thank you very much for doing this. I was mesmerized.
If this vacuous blathering mesmerized you, I sure as hell I never buy a seat on your airliner.
@@karlrschneider ^ mad ☝️
@@karlrschneider I'm shocked that you didn't find this to be an extremely well done, intelligent breakdown. I too was mesmerized.
But do you understand the metric system?
Yes, the word is certification.
As you know for aircraft, air worthiness directive (AD), and how many thousands of them are there. This submersible had no certification from any official body.
Probably the best explanation for us non-professionals I’ve heard. Covered all the points and excellent graphics. Well done.
Your explanations...are on point. Very well done. I'm been curiously seeking more information on this incident. To date you have the best explanations based on science and data
As a layman with only human biology as my academic background, it doesn’t take an engineering degree to understand that materials, break down with wear and tear and to be put under such immense strain mission after mission ! To not have something such as a GPS locator is totally insane! You should have every single possible worse case scenario covered! Crazy
GPS doesn’t work in the ocean. A beacon could be helpful, if technical possible on that depth.
Well it had a Logitech game controller and could handle being dropped and tossed…
They're actually was a beacon. That's why I want everything losing power and the beacon also losing power, totally pointed to an implosion from beginning
amateurs from the start.
controlled by cheap Logitech Playstation knock-off controllers
OUTSTANDING sir!! I have an aerospace engineering undergrad degree and have been in US Department of Defense Aviation maintenance and logistics for 36+ years. Your report here and analysis is SPOT ON. So many red flags I picked up on the more I found out about OceanGate. Thanks for this report...
Amen.100% agree!
Being an Jet Engine mechanic at a German Airline i really wonder how this operation ever even got underway and was allowed to operate!!!! In Aircraft Maintenance and Aircraft Servicing one has so many rules to know and to follow through , so many controll and checksheets to sign just in order to keep an Aircraft flying ,one has regularly to check up oneself on new Orders by your Airline or by the Manufacturer of parts and pieces . Any mechanic or servicecraft got tested out regularly on procedures and knowlegebase, is there no such thing in place for some Underwater Tourismthing in the US. Jeez , if so , good luck for you??
@@michaelstramm2366 that’s exactly what he said in the video. There is no checks and balances over deep sea exploration like there is over the sky’s. So these people who ran/owned this company were able to make these decisions to cut costs and corners on their own.
@@lemonlime1192 Wow, that really bugs the hell out of me!!! My reasoning is : all those checks and rechecking on aircraft, be it about any Side of the aircraft technically or by law are in place because it was taken that any aircraft is an dangerous thing to the people who have them in operation or if they are just bystanders by the law. Meaning any aircraft can fall out of the sky upon people unawares or bits and pieces can do either, just as i understand the laws aspect side on this! And now everybody knows or is at least aware to the fact that the deeper one dives the more pressure is on any kind of Body the more harm could happen to you just mechanical!!!! Everybody is aware that Congress and the United States Navy hassling about billions and billions of $ in order to built and operate U-Boats that are save enough and silent enough to go all the way to whomevers coast and are having a pretty good Chance to come back intact and with everybody aboard safe and sound! And here some privately owned company just can go unhindered and unchecked by any laws , just for some $ to wank out of some dumb people who just wanted to have something to brag about for personal reasons only without even having any technical or laws checks and controlls to observe ?? Hard to swallow by me.
As someone who has no engineering background, this is by far the best video I have come across, watched and listened to about this situation. I’m in a science field, understanding the need for stringent, repeatable testing and repeatable results to prove safety and efficacy and why standards and safety protocols are put in place, but your explanation of all the different details I have no knowledge about was easy to understand and gave me the information that I was looking for (ex: the amount of pressure one would feel at that depth to better understand the catastrophic implosion and why after coming to that conclusion from the wreckage why they immediately deemed no survivors, along with why there are likely no bodies to be found). And all the other info leading up to the event is also useful to see why this unfortunate incident happened. Thank you!!
I keep hearing people ask, ....What happened to the bodies?.... The best answer I can give them, is that they were not only cooked in extreme heat from compressed air molecules, but also vaporized into gel. It's like shrinking yourself to the size of a pea, and being inside of a cylinder in a car engine on its firing stroke.
@@hockeyteethright. Why this video is useful. Once you hear how many pounds that amount of pressure under water is equivalent to, you’re like, yeah, your body is toast and is probably is billions of pieces 😢
If you want a bit more perspective, the implosion would have felt like strapping 45kg (roughly 100 pounds) of TNT to your body and all the explosive forces directed inward, they were gone faster than you can flip a light switch, so in some way fortunate that they felt nothing.
@@gavincrouchthank you! It definitely helps give us non-engineers a better sense of what happened. It’s sad to say that the most fortunate thing of this accident is they felt no pain and that it happened so quickly that there was likely no time for them to even process what was happening
Youve got a new subscriber in me. A well put together video. I look forward to watching more!
Hi Ricky, as a former naval submarine operator I agree with you that equipment fatigue is the cause of this bad accident. I served on submarines for almost ten years. Every three months the boat was checked for hairline cracks. As you mentioned, the number of deep dive movements is an important factor in the aging of the material the pressure skin is made of. In military submarines, the pressure skin is made of high-yield steel. This is completely annealed so that a homogeneous strength of the entire pressure skin is made.
Thank you for the clear explanation of this terrible accident.
Jan van Marwijk the Netherlands.
Wow that’s very amazing, must have been such an experience
Rush is like a modern day Icarus, his hubris caused him to ignore whatever limited him to his end. Sadly, when the mythological Icarus took a major risk and melted his wings by flying too close to the sun, he only killed himself and not four other people who trusted him to provide a safe craft.
his legacy will be his legacy...he won
Rush was a narcissist, but he killed 4 innocent people because of his sheer ignorance.
Had the same thought!
He flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami.
As a retired Electrical and Mechanical engineer our main tasks were to pressure test vessels to pass annual hydraulic testing...the fact that this vessel had to endure over a 1000Bar is incredible that shortcuts were taken
350 bar.
@@AllanFolm375 bar
I don't even want to use an off brand, low end controller at home let alone when it's the one thing that might save my life (gaming already did actually)
@@AllanFolmI assume you'd test to a pressure beyond that of what you're expecting to endure. So while it might be 350+ bar at that depth, you'd probably want a vessel that handles beyond that pressure.
And I bet most of the pressure vessels you tested (if not all) were the vessels for containing the INTERNAL pressure. And here the composites are quite good at resisting stretching so the composite scuba tanks are quite good, being lighter than steel or aluminium.
I love the way you made this comprehensive. You got a new sub🎉
Pun intended or no?
Even if the main structure of the sub had been approved, certified, replaced every dive, tested etc There are a number of reasons I would never have got into that vessel. Poor communications, no location beacon, no emergency systems to counter being bolted in from the outside. The use of a games controller...seriously?!! It is one thing to challenge frontiers, it is quite another to take your safety and the safety of others so casually! I took more precautions camping on Dartmoor as a child!!
Yes, a game controller should have put anyone off as well as sealed in from the outside, amongst a host of other things.
You forgot that you didn't have the money.
You right about this You can't pay me to do it
Even not knowing what was used to get down to the Titanic, I said I would never crawl inside that thing to see anything at that depth in the ocean. Now learning was was used in crafting that craft, I am blown away they indeed crawled inside to even submerge into a swimming pool-much less the ocean. I guess none of those people were used to being told NO!
Everyone complains about the game console but according to an interview I saw on the news with a navy officer, they are quite widely used these days.
I simultaneously acknowledge that creating a submarine capable of reaching the Titanic using a lot of off the shelf parts is extremely impressive (it's insane to think that it actually worked, and more than once), but it's also insane that they didn't do more testing, ESPECIALLY when selling seats to "tourists." That's just reckless.
Staton was an bs salesman and the billionaires dreamers bought his bs tour decided to go with a lowest bidder and paid for it
What else can be expected from a narcissistic CEO.. Not only in this incident but disasters do happen when someone in authority fires persons who raise genuine concerns just because they're so ambitious in realising their own "dreams" and putting others lives at stake..
This place is the grave of alot of unfortunate people whom died horrific deaths let's respect this final resting place of there's and let thied a horri cx
I said the same thing. Every deep dive puts stress on the structural frame of the submarine. If they dive once successfully then you have to inspect the frame and strengthen it again or retire it. If a US military submarine has deep limits a home built sub isn't going deeper than a military submarine that's built from steel.
Nuclear subs dont go anywhere near the depths of a bathyspere. Even rescue subs arent designed to go deeper than a couple thousand feet.
As far as depth limits of military submarines, they are a lot larger. Surface area plays a huge role into the total force something experiences from ocean pressure. It would be impossible to take a military sub to the Mariana trench because no known material is strong enough in that big a surface area, unless you made it so thick that the sub was hugely negatively buoyant.
@@TimpBizkit great point. I work in the pipeline industry and am constantly educating people on this fact. Psi is pounds per square inch - there are a lot more square inches on a military sub than this thing.
So well presented. Thank you!
Hearing James Cameron say he knew it imploded on Monday, and so did the entire submersible community was the saddest part of this; because they all knew it was unsafe.
@gordongekko5886 And yet he was right.
I think there needed to be absolute proof before the media could be told the craft imploded and all lives were lost. I wonder what that banging was that was heard in the final hours. False hope, unfortunately.
People are just jumping on the moaning bandwagon,this sub made several trips to titanic without any major issues
@gordongekko5886You can become an expert by studying & working with a subject enough! Didn't he do many dives himself already?
@@wanhunglo7234 found the guy who didn't even watch this video
The way you explained that even a 7 year old can understand it...thank you for making it so clear on how things can go wrong so fast when one test one step is over looked.
yes a seven year old but not to Stockton Rush because he did not want to listen he was that stubborn plain and simple
Need this guy to explain chernobyl to me. Even the "simple" explanation I can hardly understand
You are a first person to talk about material fatigue, which is such an obvious fact. It's unbelievable that they would keep using the same sub over and over.
The only reasonably safe method of testing, would have required a second center section. Steel plates with hooks could have been bolted at each end, to allow it to be weighted, then lowered to the depth of the Titanic repeatedly, until it failed.
Using the section they had would have been pointless, since they could have raised and lowered it 100 times, then discovered that it failed on the 101'st
To check for variations, ideally they should have used at least 3 test samples.
In reality, I suspect that failures during the tests would have made them look for an alternative design.
I've talked to a number of people who said, "I sure would've hated being on the FIRST trip that vessel made to 13,000 feet below the ocean!" And my response has always been, "Do you think the SECOND expedition was safer? After X number of trips the thing is a GONER, and we don't know what 'X' is yet."
7:00 "The vast majority of marine and aviation accidents are a result of operator error," because marine, aviation, and space vessels are always designed to avoid mechanical failures, and are extensively tested and certified beforehand. That is the reason why 'most' accidents, as Mr. Rush had it, are due to operator error, since other things are usually ruled out during the design and construction process.
More honest and concise video than you would get from a documentary on TV this is all anybody needs to know. Brilliant video
It's not that honest.. and not that informed either. He does a good job of playing and sounding the part, but fails when it comes to what he focuses on.
He BARELY mentions delamination, but that is what most likely caused it to fail. Almost certainly, even.
For those who don't know, carbon fiber is multiple layers of a very thin sheet that are wrapped and glued to eachother.
When you build a craft out of it, since the pressure comes from the outside, it's highly likely that it will start having delamination at pressures as high as this.
They likely never tested the pressure hull to these depths over and over again, and especially not with months in between tests.
For example at 12:00 he doesn't mention that the person filing the complaint did so after they got fired. That's not only a crucial piece of info..
But it's also the only time this content creator mentions delamination in this video.. which is almost certainly the mode of failure that lead to this disaster.
So he isn't just uninformed, he's also obfuscating facts.
So sad, especially for the young man who didn't want to go with his father in the first place.
How do you know that?
@@supernova11711his aunt discussed this. She stated he was afraid and concerned about the voyage. He only went for his father. Another father/son backed out after looking things over.
@@Gertiemarie50 Ugh. That’s terrible and makes the story even worse. Poor kid!
@@Gertiemarie50curse of the Titanic
@@exxxz1999 i dont know....the wife of the CEO had grandparents or so who died on Titanic. Thats a million to 1 coincidence dont you think??
As a formal submariner, in the United States Navy your information is very accurate. I thank you for sharing the information and you’re right, a sub has a lifecycle before that vessel is retired.
@@ReverendSnedley no those items were not required.
@@ReverendSnedleyyeah informal like the idiot piloting the sub that went pop
@@ReverendSnedley 🎩🤣
LOL, doncha love predictive text?the moron who developed it should go to jail, or back to third grade!
😮
Great video bro..
Well said..well shown..well put.
For a person who knows nothing about engineering u made it very simple n understandable.
The shenanigans at Oceangate, especially with the whistleblower, reminded me of the Challenger disaster and Roger Boisjoly, the engineer at Morton Thiokol who raised serious concerns about the safety of the O-ring seals prior to launch but was ignored and silenced by NASA and his own superiors at Thiokol.
Also John Liotine and the Alaska Airlines 261 crash
Exactly, new meme, everyone agreed that crew safety was paramount, but really, the launch was paramount. Group think!!
yes me too.
Excellent post!
They were honestly really lucky to have had that many successful trips until the accident
Yup.
100 percent correct. And there was a ton of attempts that didn't happen because of problems. I feel bad for the 19 year old.
Waiting for the right mix of passengers. It was a jackpot
Weren't they though...
Poor kid. He had alot to live for with family money and who knows what other great qualities he already had as a person
I've seen videos of other Titanic visits by Oceangate subs. They did not instill confidence. Knowing what I know now, they instilled terror. Yet most of the passengers were as chipper as chipmunks. They acted as if they were on a harmless joy ride. It amazes me how those people trusted their lives to a company and vessel they knew nothing about.
agree, the waiver didnt help either stating its not approved by a regulatory body
That's because when you are deep underwater you become almost intoxicated like drunk.
It’s interesting because almost a year ago, news channels were reporting Ocean Gate to be this new fun company dedicated to submersible tourism. It’s actually haunting how happy everyone looks in the news segments I saw. Yet, none of them mentioned how seriously unsafe these dives were. You can see the news segments on TH-cam. This is just a reminder why looking into something and not automatically believe what you see on tv is so important.
Most people (myself included) have a very limited understanding of how planes or trains work and certainly are not in a position to personally assess their safety, yet they use them everyday. I don't think you need to fully understand every vehicle you travel on, you just need to check that it is operating in accordance with proven regulations.
there hadnt been more than 3 in the Titan