BATTLE OF THE DREAM BIKES What rides better: Custom Titanium or Standert Triebwerk?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- I have now spend lots of km on my custom titanium bike from Waltly. Time to compare it to my so far favourite Standert Triebwerk. Which one rides better and which one will become my No1?
00:00 Intro
00:32 Cost of the build
05:31 Ride feel
08:53 Comparison to steel
10:20 My no 1 bike
15:24 Is it a recommendation
16:54 What is up next - กีฬา
Hi everyone, i believe Michael is doing all of us a favor, he started with what anyone passionate about bikes should start, building his own bike, his early builds are affordable, careful sorted out, beautiful , steel, Dura Ace mechanical, high quality wheels and tires, there is no doubt they ride as good as they look but soon after the inevitable happened, the urge to try something else, different, more performance and many more build follow. I have done the same thing and learned so much , Michael is a good source and i trust he is very transparent with his builds, keep up the good work and let us know how the bikes compare. I believe comparing bikes and components generates most value
Thanks so much for your feedback. Glad to hear you see value in the videos and good idea about doing more comparisons. I actually plan to do some profile videos on the individual bikes and talk about what makes them special and how they compare to each other 🤜🤛
I've been waiting for this and I was not disappointed. Great job, Michael! 👍🏾
Thanks a lot Luis. Hope this will help to kick off your Ti adventure 🫶
Absolutely stunning 🎉
Danke dir 🤜🤛
Been using my Waltly custom gravel bike for almost 4 years now, best bike purchase I've made, if I may say so.
Very happy to hear 🫶
Great video, Michael! One thing to consider about carbon, though - it's the most readily-repairable frame material in existence. Ultra-light carbon frames can crack for sure, but most major US and European cities have a variety of skilled carbon specialists who will be able to repair the damage easily and affordably. I crashed my Canyon Endurace SLX back in 2018 and cracked the top tube, and at that time it was the lightest production carbon disc road bike frame in the world. My local carbon shop made it good as new, including a perfect paint job where you'd never know anything ever happened, with a lifetime warranty on the repair. All for about $300 USD. I know metal frames can be repaired, but my understanding is it's not as easy as carbon. Just a thought for you. Great video, as always!
Thanks a lot for the comment. I m actually impressed how cheap the carbon fix was. I would expect swapping a tube on a metal frame would be similar cost.
But i think for me its more about potential damage that is covered up with a nice paintjob. Having said that. I still enjoy riding an aero carbon frame as well at times. But if i could only keep one bike i think it would be the titanium one at the moment.
Carbon's reparabilty can't be beat. The first repair I did was on a Cervelo R3sl. I didn't really know what I was doing but I put on tens of thousands of miles on that frameset and the person I sold it to has added over 200k miles to it.
@@veganpottertheveganThat is very impressive 🫶
Thing is, many cyclist don't live in major US and European cities, whereas skilled steel-welder can be found even in the most bumfuck of places
@M.F.Hafizhan for most repairs, a $50 carbon repair kit will do. You can even do one on a tour 50miles away from anyone with electricity if you carry that small kit.
Great video! Thanks for taking the time to create such content
Thanks a lot. Glad you like it 🤜🤛
Thanks for such a level headed comparison of your two metal bikes. If one doesn't race, then it is surely all about the bike that makes you feel good when you ride it. That is the primary reason most of us ride after all... Thanks again...
You are so right. If its carbon, steel, titanium, aluminium or a wooden bike. Whatever gets you out is the best bike you can own 🫶
I really appreciate channels and youtube members putting content like this, takes a lot of time and resources . I have tried every material that is, what i have learned is that material matters but not all materials are created equal and not all frames are created equal A high quality made frame with high quality materials will ride supper nice and won't hold anyone back but there are limitations because there is no perfect bike. Recently i have came across a Ritte Esprit carbon bike and i must say with out any hesitation that this frame could possibly be the absolute sweet spot for road bikes. The frame is light(800g for size 52/S) , quality is fantastic, room for 34mm tires, 27.2 seatpost,T47 BB , the geometry is perfection, with a shorter tube, long chain stays and wheel base, relatively low head tube to allow aero position , i have mine set up with GP5k STR 32x700 and i can't see myself going back to narrow tires, built with Sram Red, Hollowgram Knot R SL50 wheels the whole built weights 6.8kg . I enjoy my steel bikes, Titanium and the Caad 12 i have owned forever but none come close to what this Ritte offers, Curious what others think
That is very interesting to hear you talk about the Ritte as you are i think the second person who mentions them within the past day. So it got me pretty curious. Will give them a closer look. Just need to see if i can justify another frame purchase atm 😂😂
@@klein-concept I bought mine used, local seller, needed few small parts and decided to email Ritte, not only they helped me out with the parts i needed but they shipped everything for free, 2 days expedited and did not charge me for anything. The guys behind the brand are in California, very chilled and friendly, they know what they have and want to promote the brand, i can't say enough good things about the bike or customer support, email them and see how they feel about a partnership, i promise you won't be disappointed
Sounds like a great company. Will ping them later today. Maybe there could be a way we can both help each other.
Ti fan here! Awesome review! 😎💯👍
Thanks a lot. Glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛
Great video, I really want a ti bike, Its quiet obvious that Waltly are making ti frames for other manufactures, makes so much sense to go direct to save money, thanks for sharing, brillant, looking forward to the next vid.
Thanks a lot. Glad you enjoyed this one. Yes i also think Waltly is doing frames for some other name brands. Wonder if they would be able to build a super lightweight titanium frame like the Litespeed bikes 🤔
Love both steel and titanium only frames I ride😊❤ great vid dude.. lovely Ti frame.. Pete 🚴🏻👍
Best combo of bikes. Thanks a lot Pete 🫶
My one Road bike (I’ve had for 12 years now) is a 725 Reynolds steel tube bike and I do love the ride quality. Great for commuting, touring and just long rides on bumpy country roads. Definitely a better feel than aluminium, for me. I’ve always wondered how different titanium is to ride. Perhaps the key benefit over a good quality steel frame is its increased durability. Glad you found your ideal superbike.
That 725 tubing is top as much as i ve heard. If one takes care of a great steel bike it can also last for almost ever. Wish you lots of more happy years on your steel bike.
Loved the Video! Thanks.... I just got my Litespeed Arenberg F1 (fully integrated cables). Built up with Shimano Ultegra 12sp and Rolf 45mm carbon wheels. 8kgs all in at $8200CND. Love Titanium ! I looked at the Chinese Ti bikes but for me came out to be about the same cost a a hand built American frame. My other road bike is a Pinarello F12 so to compare the two I would say not quite the same snappy handling or responsiveness but in the ride comfort head and shoulders better. Like you this Ti bike has become my go to bike for most rides. Keep making great videos!
Thanks a lot and congrats on the Litespeed bike. It is a beauty and i was also looking at it a lot but the import taxes made it a hard sell for me. Sounds like you have an amazing bike setup there ❤️
Megaaaaa 💪 Und danke für das einblenden der Preise bzw. die transparenz 🙏☺
Na aber gerne 🤜🤛
Great video and lovely bike! Ps. If that's your mate at 12:40 tell him his seat height is crazy high. This is AT Least 3cm to high 💀💀💀
Thank you. Great eye 🫶 will let him know but i think we might have already done that after the ride.
Thanks Michael for the great video and for sharing your experience🎉! Did you also got your headset delivered from waltly? I am asking because I can imagine that the compatibility of an internal routed headset with a custom frame may be pain point? So is there the possibility to get frame and headset directly from one dealer? Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes Waltly provided this but we actually designed it around the FSA 55r headset. So in case i need to replace bearings at some point these are widely available.
I ride a Van Nicholas ti-bike and I choose ti for one reason and one reason only and that is it's looks. The ride feel in my opinion is not defined even the slightest by the frame material used, at least not in my case; I ride 30mm tyres soon to be 32mm tubeless so low tyre pressures are in order, I have a carbon frontfork, carbon stem and carbon handlebar, I sit on a carbon saddle which is mounted on a carbon seatpost which is superlight and flexes like crazy, so before any vibration could reach the frame most of it already is filtered out I think. What remains is the colour of titanium and that is a colour which I can not imagine that I can ever get tired of. I bought my bike in 2022 and it still has a prominent place in the living room. I can totally relate to the feeling you get when someone on a carbon aero bike passes me on my training round, which is an oval formed route of 60K, and I think while he passes me this backwind will soon change into a headwind and almost every time their ass is mine lol ;-)
I still would like to ride an aluminum frame with 1:1 the same fork, handlebars and seatpost. So far i noticed quite a difference of riding my carbon frames back to back with my steel or titanium bikes in terms of comfort. Especially as i run TPU since a while so can not go down in tire pressure as much as i was able with tubeless.
But hehe glad you seem to know very well what i ment with the ego boost this gives 🫣
yeah frame material doesnt effect ride feel much if at all but it does effect shape, size, and thickness. those things do effect ride feel much more, but not as much as bigger tires and seat post can. steel and ti tubes are generally smaller in diameter for bike frames therefore flex more compared to alu. or carbon. but its not much by way of design.
Been riding a steel Jamis Renegade from 2019, constantly upgrading over the years. That ruggedness off steel while being flexible... nothing like it. ❤ for CroMo and Ti. Excellent video btw 😀
Big fan of every bike upcycling story. Sounds like a beautiful project 🫶
Was new when I bought it and I was thinking about an upgrade, then i watched some German guys video on a light steel build and everything changed 😀
@@brankoradic2749hehe glad to hear that
Brilliant video as always - I`m really enjoying your titanium series
Just a side note:
Waltly does produce for a lot of western brands - and if you send them some ballpark-ideas about your desired geometry, they already have a ton of frame designs ready to produce. This can save quite some cash as going fully custom adds the entire design-phase to the price.
I just told Amy that I wanted an all road/ gravel frame with similar geometry to the Enigma Escape and Moots Routt RSL (+BSA bottom bracket, partially internal cabling, lots of mounts, ...) - and they had a design for that already available.
My compact/ sloped frame in size 54cm also came in at 1780g - without any butting.
I think the T47 and oversized head tube add some weight to your design.
Thanks a lot. Glad you liked it 🫶
I already assumed they must be doing lots of frames for other brands but didnt think about using one of those as a reference. Great idea to shorten the timeframe and save some money.
🤜🤛
After 27 or so bikes during my riding lifetime, here's what I think about ti bikes. For me, double butted ti is too noodly or flexy. I actually prefer straight gauge ti for the right amount of stiffness/ride feel. Also, here is an unpopular opinion - if you really care about ride feel, you should ditch carbon forks with tapered steerer/crowns. Replace your carbon fork with a custom steel fork in a nice traditional j-bend design. It's literally front suspension. Oversized steerer tube designs for road designs is simply garbage, especially for metal bikes. We're very sensitive about the feel from the handlebars and the fork is a huge variable in what you'll feel with your hands. So why did the industry start pushing these jackhammer designs? I replaced the carbon fork on my ti bike and even if the bike is slightly heavier, the bike is faster and more comfortable because it's got front suspension.
Interesting point. Never looked at it that way. Might give a steel for a try on one of my retro frames. Thank you for the recommendation 🫶
Great job with the builds and comparisons between the 2 bikes. I have recently purchased a Ritte Esprit , reach out to Ritte. Maybe they will send you a frame for demo.
Their bikes are really great looking. Do you already have your s and if yes how s the ride quality?
Will try to ping them 🤜🤛
@@klein-concept I have the Esprit Pre Launch edition. I rode as good but never better
Great comparison! As somebody who's past their racing prime, I've been looking for my next "forever bike". I honestly can't let go of my CAAD10, I just wish I could fit some wider tires on there! Metal bikes rule 🤘
Heard these CAAD10 ride amazing as well. So i would say keep that one for the performance days and consider steel or titanium for the fun rides hehe 🫶
Cool bike! What type of headset/bearings are used, where did u get them from?
Its a FSA 55r headset. It has been supplied by Waltly 🤜🤛
Steel and titanium frames should be getting so much more love. Carbon is cool and all, but it is too expensive for what it is. On the Triebwerk build I've spent ~7.5k eur, if went if tarmac sl8 or something similar would be easily at 10-11k. Even with the Triebwerk I worry about the bike and scratches, hard to imagine what would be with carbon. At the end it is all about riding the bike, not worrying that you had a minor crash and carbon could be now cracked inside.
That is exactly my way of thinking. Sounds like you re enjoying your Triebwerk a lot as well 🫶
Am I setting my alarm clock so I can watch this at 5:00 AM? No. No I am not. I'll have to love this a little bit later.
Hahahahahahha. It will be here waiting for you
🤜🤛
I had my custom titanium frame made by a builder here in the US. It was a lot more expensive than what you paid but the tubing options were better. Previous to getting this ti frame I had another ti bike that was a Chinese manufactured frame from Van Nicholas, the Skeiron. I could see the difference in quality of the titanium and since that one was not custom it rode like crap. The balance was off and I couldn't take my hands off the bar or I would loose control of the bike. The welds weren't so pretty either. I gave that bike to my son who isn't really a cyclist but wanted the bike. This ti bike I have now does ride exceptional and fits like a glove. I don't have any carbon components on it because for me it's about the quality and the ride feel not the lightest weight. That said it is still a respectful 8.2Kg with pedals and painted. I have it featured on my channel.
That sounds impressive. Will have a on your channel. Interesting to hear there was that big of a difference. Must have had to do with the accuracy and the geometry right? Or would you say tube quality would have also played a role there?
@@klein-concept There was probably several things at play. One, the builder had a lifetime of experience and the welds were perfect and he gave me some education about the types of tubes and recommended not going with double butting. The Skeiron frame welds weren't all that great and had blemishes or marks in the tubing that I tried using a abrasive pad to clean up but the marks were only getting worse so I left them alone. Titanium tubing can be tapered but it cost more money for the tubing, but I think in the areas of the chainstays that made a difference in comfort. This guy got the geometry spot on, I am still impressed that the drawing matches how my bike is set up even the saddle and bars placement in the drawing is correct. Carl Strong was the builder and sadly he retired about a year ago. But he did say he would honor any problems in the future should people he built bikes for need repairs. That's service that is worth the cost.
@@charlesmansplaining ok that is impressive. And having that close and direct interaction with the builder is also worth the money and no surprise that it translated into premium ride quality.
@@klein-concept Thanks. I hope you have a good experience with your new bike and don't end up regretting the purchase like I did with my first Ti frame. By the way, I just posted up a video of that Skeiron I didn't remember making just so people know I'm not making this stuff up.
@@charlesmansplaining seen it. What a great looking bike 🤜🤛
Great video, I love my steel Ritchey Swiss Cross so much I sold my Titanium Curve Belgie because it just didn't transfer the power as easily as my Cannondale CAAD 10. The chain stays on the Curve Belgie just weren't large enough and it felt soggy trying to transfer the power if that makes sense. The CAAD 10 is instant and responsive. I'm tempted though to get a custom Ti bike made with larger chain stays and more shaped to help transfer the power as I do miss that raw Ti look with black components. Even non riders would single my bike out at the cafe over my makes carbon bikes saying how good it looked and I loved riding it except for the lack of power transfer.
How does that power transfer feel against the steel bike?
Thanks a lot. That Richey is a beauty. So congrats on the bike. 🫶
Regarding the power transfer they feel pretty much the same. No surprise as the geometry is almost exactly the same. But im also not putting down lots of power in general hehe. Maybe if you re somebody who pushes out 1000 watts there might be a difference 🫣
As somebody that can't let go of his CAAD10, this is super useful information! Would love to know what Ti bike you maybe decide on in the future. Also maybe I should be considering a Swiss Cross too :)
I have ridden all kind of bikes. All materials, but my favorite bike is a Haley titanium frame, custom made. Pair with SRAM Red components and Mavic carbon wheels. Not the fastest nor the lightest but just great.
These frames have something special to them somehow. 🫶
I hesitated between the Standert Triebwerk and a titanium bike called Koppel Poldermodel (from a Dutch bikeshop in Amersfoort), I decided to go for the latter. Good to hear that I probably made a good decision, thank you for all your work!
That Poldermodel looks amazing with that dropped stay in the back 🫶. Do you know what the frame weighs as i dont seem to find it on their website.
@@klein-concept Unfortunately I don't know. I think it will be in the same range as yours. I ordered it with Enve 45mm wheels and a standard 105 di2 group. I compared the weight of the model in the shop with my current bike, a Van Rysel carbon bike weighing 7.9 kg (just by lifting it) and felt no difference. The Koppel frame is also Chinese, the bikeshop has a close relationship with the factory. I did a proper bikefit in the shop, so that the frame will have my custom geometry. Still have to wait for the bike, it will be delivered around July/August. The owner of the shop really is a bike nerd, he designed the integrated cockpit himself.
Ah and now the waiting time 🫣. But i m certain that you will love it. Titanium has something magical to it 🪄
@@klein-concept Next time I'm in the bikeshop I will ask for the weight, and post it here (I'm a casual rider myself).
@@joostbodewes4325 that would be amazing. Thank you 🤜🤛
By the way the riro 12 speed HG cassette goes well together with YBN SLA12 chain and sram Axs.
Oh thanks for letting me know. Will have a look 🫶
@8:11 With disc brakes and the REALLLY long shift levers/hoods that come with them - that idea about the front hub being obscured visually by your handlebar may not make sense anymore. (unless the handlebars you have include a shorter reach to offset the difference.)
Thanks a lot. That makes sense. So maybe i m still in the ballpark of a classical fit then on the front. 🫶
Good to know about the difference between red and DA even as top tier group sets that they are different. I have da9150 on my treiberk CR rim and while install was much longer once out of the way the shifting is great. Always been curious about red, but it's would be a huge hit to the wallet to try.
The DA 9150 is super premium. Dont think you would see it as an upgrade going to Sram. 🫶
About that "forever bike"... What is the tyre clearance of the frame? We ride now 30-32c super fast tyres on the paved roads (even PRO riders are moving to 32c in races like Paris-Roubaix) and now modern 34-35c are coming out. Does the frame accomodate that trend?
It can run up to 34 without problems. Maybe a 35 could also fit but i didnt try that. 🤜🤛
Majorca footage is 👌🏻
Thank you. Waiting for your report 🫶
I share the same view as you about carbon bikes. I'm slowly converting my fleet of bikes all over to some type of metal (AL/TI/Steel).
What is your favourite material so far? 🫶
Machst du noch was mit dem Steuerrohr? Sieht so nackig etwas verloren aus, vielleicht ne coole Gravur oder nen netten Aufkleber? 😀🚴🏻♂ Danke für die tollen Videos, sehr interessant 👍🏻
Ja vielleicht. Hab noch emblems gemacht. Vielleicht pack ich eins davon drauf 🤜🤛
I am always surprised at the weight of titanium - which in most cases is similar to high end steel. Sure you can get a titanium frame close to 1200 grams but Rob English can do similar things with steel. From a repair point of view, steel is still the king to me. Very easy to cut and replace. Carbon is great that it can be repaired but it has limitations. I have had my top tube crack and had it repaired to look like new. Great experience but I found out there are limits. Crack your carbon fork and the cost of repair will far exceed the cost of a new fork. Go to any carbon repair shop and they will all have a room filled with bikes, bars, and wheels that could not be fixed. Seeing that has started me moving away from these terminal products.
That is true that i guess steel can be repaired almost anywhere. But being able to ride an unpainted frame somehow makes me not worry about chipping paint anymore. Of course could also do this with stainless steel and make it even less worry free.
So you have switch to a steel fork now as well? If so how do you like it?
@@klein-concept I hear you. I still lust after a titanium bike and think for gravel, there may not be better material. Hard to find a steel fork that is disc brake and thru axle compatible. Still looking!
@@AMehta-ok5pf i guess Waltly could make you a custom fork for that 🫣
What steel does compared to a stiff carbon race bike is eliminate high frequency vibrations and give a bit of spring in the BB when you dance on the wheels. It is also very good descending because you can adjust the head angle (custom geometry). It does not feel like you're riding a "hollow" frame but something closer to a solid big German BMW 7 series. It does not have to be heavy through. On my Columbus Spirit can even feel the difference on a race wheelset compared to a general purpose riding one. I'd love to have a custom Ti bike, but it is very expensive, compared to custom steel.
IMHO the nicest bikes are the ones made years ago, for the Rapha Continental project. It was a series of videos about custom steel builders, and each one had been commissioned to build a bike in black with pink accents (like your bike shown in this video). The videos also showed a style of riding which I appreciate more than the jet-set lifestyle of hitting Girona, Mallorca and Tenerife with big cycle touring companies. I'd rather just ride locally, and with a few friends.
Hehe i like the BMW comparison 🫶.
Do you say that you could get a custom columbus spirit frame for less than 1600 Euros? If you have any framebuilder recommendations please let me know. Also thanks for the Rapha Continental project tip. Didnt know about it but will have a look as it sounds amazing 🫶
@@klein-concept See Marinoni in Canada, Piuma model custom geometry in Spirit.
Thanks a lot 🤜🤛
Beide Räder sehen so sick aus!! Sheeeeeshhhh
Hehe. Sind echte hingucker und fahren sich wirklich geil. 🤌
5500€ for Chinese/cost effective Titan bike....not bad. I prefered last year to give my money to some local Berlin (Stahnsdorf) manufacturer: KOCMO. For 7500, I got a Titan RR-disc with cost UNeffective-Campag Record. Am I faster, lighter, aero-er.....definitely not but damn it makes me so happy 🙂
Ah Kocmo. Also had a look at them. They do some great work. But are you sure they manufacture in Berlin themselves. Thought they mentioned somewhere that they also manufacture in Asia but i might be wrong. 🫣
I have a lovely custom Columbus Life road bike & a custom Ti gravel bike which is just as nice but tougher, perfect for a gravel bike. 👍
Sounds like an amazing custom setup for all roads and off roads 🫶
Tell us about that thick headtube (so ugly). That must have some sort of feel to it. I am wondering, look at Ritchey bikes, they have that slick headtube and they pride themselves with it being machined. do you know about head tubes and ride feel.
1.6k euros si close to a ritchey i want. The ritchey may last 25years and loose stifness but the TI is forever.
All kindness and respect, thanks for the video.
I kind of like the chunky headtube but i dont like the weight it brings. Another alternative would have been to go with external bearings like on the standert. Dont know if in the end that would have made a difference in ride feel. At least i can not spot one. But happy to learn more about head tubes and ride feel if you have some insights there 🫶
Who says steel doesn't last forever? I think it can if designed right and you take care of the inside of the frame. Even then, why would you want a bike to last forever? I'd just buy another custom steel frame and as we progress in life or simply due to age, we'll want a different fit anyways. For my Ti bike, I replaced the carbon fork with a steel one and you know what? It's amazing now. Big head tapered tubes are not better at anything except for maybe front suspension forks. Optimal metal tube diameters do not benefit from such oversized head tubes.
@@SurpriseMeJT of course it can last for ever but my point was that titanium is pretty much care free. With my steel bikes i dont worry about them falling apart at some point but it requires some effort to keep them protected.
Let‘s call it expensive
Not cheap for sure 🫣
Very nice. Now your making me want one. I hate you lol❤. Definitely a head turner .
Haha. Whenever it pushes you over the line to order one you know where to find me 🫣🤜🤛
saya suka keduanya daripada karbon maupun alumunium yang mudah timbul retak dikemudian hari.
Sorry what exactly do you mean?
I mean both are the best, but the first one is titanium, and the second one is steel. that's all sir klein 😁
@@user-kt8lv7br8cthanks a lot 🤜🤛
Du hast also auch schon die gegossenen Titanrahmen entdeckt? :D
Ja leider 😂😂💰
13:44 by that logic ride an xc bike ;)
😂😂 love it. Even better using your first ever bike with training wheels.
The weight of the frame might not seem so obvious when you built with such light components but is there to carry on every ride , the only advantage a Ti frame has is probably longevity and durability but let's be honest, no one is satisfied with one bike forever, you missing on too much. TI frame with relaxed geometry but 28mm tires, Supper light carbon wheels with carbon spokes, Supper light crank , seatpost and handlebar, there is no way the frame has a chance to make a difference before the tires, wheels, seatpost, handlebar do. Start with a modern, high quality carbon frame ( Like the Time or Look, Ritte etc) ,same components and if you miss steel or carbon i will eat my words and admit i know nothing.
Hehe 3rd person today brining up Ritte. There must be something to it 🫶.
I dont know if i would agree that the frame is not having a significant impact but at the same time i also did not try the exact same components on another frame. So you might as well be right 😂😂
But when i get a chance to try it at some point i will find this comment and let you know so we both know the truth 🤜🤛
I recommend Jan Heine's book "the all-road bike revolution" ("Ein Rad für alles" in German) to understand bicycle geometry.
Love it. That is the advice i was looking for. Thank you 🤜🤛
I have ridden (semi-) aero road bikes in the past, but the past few years all my bikes have been distinctively non-aero, regardless of the material. Discussion about a frame's aero capabilities tends to make me laugh a little, especially in the context of recreational or amateur riding. I often pass riders on expensive aero bikes with 60mm deep wheels, using my Standert Pfadfinder.. (and I'm no racer, just a decently fast recreational rider) The aero benefits of a frame or wheels are quite small compared to the gains you're getting from reducing your frontal area. Unfortunately I see many riders with aero bikes who didn't invest in a bike fit or in basic yoga/stretching. They're riding their aero machines with their knees pointing out because the saddle is too high, arms locked out because the reach is too long, bars that are too wide, and their head in the wind because they can't get low. At 30kph into a headwind on the flats, they will need to push roughly 30-50Watts more than me. And I'm a tall dude on a 60cm Pfadfinder that looks _tiny_ in comparison.
Get a bike fit. Do stretches. Improve your position on the bike. Then, and only then, consider improving aero capabilities of the bike itself. Unless you like the look of those aero wheels and can afford them. Then buy them and be happy. Morale Watts are important too 😉
I fully agree with you. I feel people are brainwashed these days in regards of thinking they need an aero frame because this i just how bikes look these days. As you say it is mainly down to the position of the rider. But sure if a aero looking bike is the one that will get you out riding more that is also a good argument to go for one 🫶
My wallet says steel :p
Hehe but honestly the 1600 Euros for the Titanium one was cheaper than the Steel one from Standert. Or are you talking about retro steel? 🫶
@@klein-concept yep, or locally made steel frames, those are pretty affordable too
Thats amazing if you can get a quality steel frame build cheaper locally. In Berlin at least it didnt seem so easy.