Everyone, AEG publishes an updated PNP, based partially on my review I think. Here are my thoughts, for those on the fence about pledging. Pros: - Temple and Guild are both useful locations now. It looks like they liked my suggestions (temple doesn't prevent you from questing, guild lets you put leveled hero straight in hand). This will be good for choice in village phase. - The Bree Setim card (starter card in both co-op and solo) went from useless to great. It now gives you +1 fight AND is worth more gold AND has a more versatile special ability. This is good, as it felt like a dead card before. - Barricade cost is now 20 (instead of 12), but can be paid by a group of players, or is 10 in solo. This is good as it was too expensive before. Also, they took my note that XP values on cards was useless, so now you get a discount on barricades equal to the XP on your cards. I'd have to play it to see how this feels, but overall I think it's great that XP values matter again, and that barricades will be even cheaper (I almost never built them before). - New prestige class looks fun. So do most of the cards from the expansion. - The guardians look pretty varied. One levels way slower, and gives you poison wounds in your hand. The other destroys your cards, which might help or hurt. I like it! Mixed: - Not sure how to feel about prestige classes in competitive. On the positive, I love that they'll give you more choices with experience, and it's fun to level up. On the negative, they make other things cost MORE for other players, which I think will be a BIG hassle to remember. If they don't include tokens for this, I think it'll be annoying. Cons: - The only straight up odd choice is that the marketplace's ability now is to make using a barricade not cost a wound. This is pretty odd. Going to the new temple will almost always be better. I think they should rethink this one... not sure what to suggest changing it to. Maybe using a barricade HEALS you one wound? That's still pretty situational, but a bigger positive when it works. Overall, I am VERY pleased with what they did. They fixed basically every complaint I had in my video review, which is super impressive. I'm extremely happy to be keeping my pledge!
Have you had a chance to try out the updated PnP? There's been one other review I've found that says the game is pretty easy up until round 13 when another dice is added and then difficulty skyrockets so either you win easily before round 13 or you die within one or two rounds after the fourth dice is added. Was curious if you experienced this as well. Thanks!
I finally got this to the table. I have a few thoughts on my one play of it so far but overall, I liked it quite a bit. Interestingly, looks like they changed the barricade building rules again from the time it was finally published.
"Everyone loves an adventure. Descending into dark dungeons with your trusty companions and a sharp blade." Nah, way too much risk to life and limb. That's why when I play Shadowrun, I play a Rigger. Why risk my own life when I can just send in drones, piloting from the comfort of my own home? :D Snarking aside, thank you for the review. So far these videos have not managed to get a full-on recommend for any of the games that have been shown. I'm interested to see when a game will break through and be a no holds barred "This is great, absolutely worth your time and money" conclusion! Not to pressure you to give more games passes or focus on games you think are good, mind you.
MVP Boardgames i just asked in the comments of the current KS if they are going to address the card balance thing and the town options. They responded by saying no. I hope there will be more playthroughs of Barricades mode.
Could you elaborate on the imbalance of cards because of the XP thing? Does it make the game so you won't pick certain cards at all? Or does it make the choices of picking certain cards too easy?
Joost Nauw I just chimed in on the KS too :) The card issue isn’t huge. Yes, some cards are almost useless on cooperative, but I would just switch the market up (or redraw if playing epic). The bigger issue for me is the village location balance. They could fix this with another overlay or two, and I hope they do so!
Now that the final version has come out, have they changed anything that would alter your review? I remember they were taking some of your critiques into consideration during the kickstarter.
I’ve been thinking of doing a quick update video, just to check in on this exact question. But long and the short of it is, they fixed most of the concerns from my video. Like every location is useful now in the town. They did NOT fix two of the big issues though. The first, that you go to town and the dungeon every turn, is kind of baked into the whole coop design, so tough to change that. But the second, that VP values on cards means nothing in coop, is disappointing. It makes cards inherently unbalanced for coop play. I’ll probably house-rule something, like getting XP tokens when you buy those cards.
Barricades mode disappointed me hugely. There’s nothing I dislike more than a Doom Track. It’s so Runebound 2e, like 2007. Especially one that limits play options as it ticks down. I don’t mind getting direct wounds. But the town HP ticking down is just Aeon’s End and done better there. Also this mode adds TONS MORE RULES. I’d rather a solo system that played more within the original rules rather than creating a second game and bolting it on. I’d rather do my village turn, go into the dungeon and get my butt kicked, eventually get a key and move to the next level, and the third level, and then fight the guardian ONCE not three times.
joshua oconnor I’m with you. The production copy was a disappointment for me too. I still enjoyed competitive play a lot, but I ditched this one because solo and co-op just weren’t engaging enough with all the rule changes.
It sadly fell flat for me the more I played it (the published version). Like I said here, I think they cut too much of what made me love competitive play, especially taking away the choice between dungeon and town turns. But glad you enjoy it! PS - I also don't love Aeon's End, and agree that the turn order deck can be frustrating. My NEW favorite coop deckbuilders are Heroes of Tenefyr and Battle for Greyport.
These reviews have been great. Quick, to the point, and critical in a fair way.
Stuart Dearden Thank you! Glad you’re enjoying them :)
Everyone, AEG publishes an updated PNP, based partially on my review I think. Here are my thoughts, for those on the fence about pledging.
Pros:
- Temple and Guild are both useful locations now. It looks like they liked my suggestions (temple doesn't prevent you from questing, guild lets you put leveled hero straight in hand). This will be good for choice in village phase.
- The Bree Setim card (starter card in both co-op and solo) went from useless to great. It now gives you +1 fight AND is worth more gold AND has a more versatile special ability. This is good, as it felt like a dead card before.
- Barricade cost is now 20 (instead of 12), but can be paid by a group of players, or is 10 in solo. This is good as it was too expensive before. Also, they took my note that XP values on cards was useless, so now you get a discount on barricades equal to the XP on your cards. I'd have to play it to see how this feels, but overall I think it's great that XP values matter again, and that barricades will be even cheaper (I almost never built them before).
- New prestige class looks fun. So do most of the cards from the expansion.
- The guardians look pretty varied. One levels way slower, and gives you poison wounds in your hand. The other destroys your cards, which might help or hurt. I like it!
Mixed:
- Not sure how to feel about prestige classes in competitive. On the positive, I love that they'll give you more choices with experience, and it's fun to level up. On the negative, they make other things cost MORE for other players, which I think will be a BIG hassle to remember. If they don't include tokens for this, I think it'll be annoying.
Cons:
- The only straight up odd choice is that the marketplace's ability now is to make using a barricade not cost a wound. This is pretty odd. Going to the new temple will almost always be better. I think they should rethink this one... not sure what to suggest changing it to. Maybe using a barricade HEALS you one wound? That's still pretty situational, but a bigger positive when it works.
Overall, I am VERY pleased with what they did. They fixed basically every complaint I had in my video review, which is super impressive. I'm extremely happy to be keeping my pledge!
Have you had a chance to try out the updated PnP? There's been one other review I've found that says the game is pretty easy up until round 13 when another dice is added and then difficulty skyrockets so either you win easily before round 13 or you die within one or two rounds after the fourth dice is added. Was curious if you experienced this as well. Thanks!
Thank you very useful comments
boratotube You’re welcome. Glad you enjoyed it!
I finally got this to the table. I have a few thoughts on my one play of it so far but overall, I liked it quite a bit. Interestingly, looks like they changed the barricade building rules again from the time it was finally published.
Yeah, some things they fixed, but then they created some other issues... it's all a bit wacky.
Great review, quick and clear!
Eero Räsänen thanks!
"Everyone loves an adventure. Descending into dark dungeons with your trusty companions and a sharp blade." Nah, way too much risk to life and limb. That's why when I play Shadowrun, I play a Rigger. Why risk my own life when I can just send in drones, piloting from the comfort of my own home? :D
Snarking aside, thank you for the review. So far these videos have not managed to get a full-on recommend for any of the games that have been shown. I'm interested to see when a game will break through and be a no holds barred "This is great, absolutely worth your time and money" conclusion! Not to pressure you to give more games passes or focus on games you think are good, mind you.
Shenaldrac Lol, love the reaction to the beginning.
And the next TWO games coming up might both be full on recommends... :)
Hot dog!
I was looking forward to TQ cooperative mode but a little less now...
Joost Nauw I think a few variants could make it work much better!
MVP Boardgames i just asked in the comments of the current KS if they are going to address the card balance thing and the town options. They responded by saying no. I hope there will be more playthroughs of Barricades mode.
Could you elaborate on the imbalance of cards because of the XP thing? Does it make the game so you won't pick certain cards at all? Or does it make the choices of picking certain cards too easy?
Joost Nauw I just chimed in on the KS too :)
The card issue isn’t huge. Yes, some cards are almost useless on cooperative, but I would just switch the market up (or redraw if playing epic).
The bigger issue for me is the village location balance. They could fix this with another overlay or two, and I hope they do so!
Bryan Reese That’s exciting!
Now that the final version has come out, have they changed anything that would alter your review? I remember they were taking some of your critiques into consideration during the kickstarter.
I’ve been thinking of doing a quick update video, just to check in on this exact question.
But long and the short of it is, they fixed most of the concerns from my video. Like every location is useful now in the town.
They did NOT fix two of the big issues though. The first, that you go to town and the dungeon every turn, is kind of baked into the whole coop design, so tough to change that.
But the second, that VP values on cards means nothing in coop, is disappointing. It makes cards inherently unbalanced for coop play.
I’ll probably house-rule something, like getting XP tokens when you buy those cards.
One Stop Co-op Shop awesome. Thanks for the update!
Barricades mode disappointed me hugely. There’s nothing I dislike more than a Doom Track. It’s so Runebound 2e, like 2007. Especially one that limits play options as it ticks down. I don’t mind getting direct wounds. But the town HP ticking down is just Aeon’s End and done better there.
Also this mode adds TONS MORE RULES. I’d rather a solo system that played more within the original rules rather than creating a second game and bolting it on.
I’d rather do my village turn, go into the dungeon and get my butt kicked, eventually get a key and move to the next level, and the third level, and then fight the guardian ONCE not three times.
joshua oconnor I’m with you. The production copy was a disappointment for me too. I still enjoyed competitive play a lot, but I ditched this one because solo and co-op just weren’t engaging enough with all the rule changes.
I love barricades mode much more than Aeons End. The turn order deck ruined that game for me and it just doesnt really work without it either.
It sadly fell flat for me the more I played it (the published version). Like I said here, I think they cut too much of what made me love competitive play, especially taking away the choice between dungeon and town turns.
But glad you enjoy it!
PS - I also don't love Aeon's End, and agree that the turn order deck can be frustrating. My NEW favorite coop deckbuilders are Heroes of Tenefyr and Battle for Greyport.
@@OneStopCoopShop I should look those out, thanks for the suggestion
This review is no longer up to date with the released version of the game.
Mostly true. They fixed some of my complaints, but others sadly remain.
I think I’ll do an update video sometime soon.