@Marco, We can't! Phil doesn't tested the Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+, it called "THE BOSS" by old AMD Fans and push it to his limits. Then we move on! :) I talking here 4GHz with a AM2 CPU!!! B)
I paid 400$ for my Core 2 Quad 9650 Extreme back in 09 & it wasn't a waste. I used that computer until 2 years ago & it still runs today. That Core 2 Quad system I ended up throwing an RX 480 8gb in it, even though the Motherboard could only handle 4Gigs of RAM it works well.
That realization of how life gets in front of some hobbies... This is the processor in my current Gaming PC... Paired with a GTX 460 and dual-booting Win7/Win XP. I so rarely even have much time to turn it on these days. Great video and promising collection of titles that still run on this. Thank you!
I was thinking the same, but luckily my system is one year newer (i5 5200). But I guess it won't be long before Phil builds a "retro" system similar to my gear :p
Michael A Berry hehe I'm about to build a "new" retro gaming rig with an E8600, on an ASUS BLITZ motherboard with an X1900XTX and X-Fi Fatality, Corsair Ram and corsair sealed liquid cooling. That's to be a counterpart to my FX-60 AMD AGP rig which I even have a HD3850AGP for, but I have quite a few rigs in that kind of class, from Athlon XP Barton at 2133MHz to P4 at 3400MHz all top of the line stuff down to the ram and sound. If you start buying things when you see them cheap on a local site you can build up a collection of really cool stuff over time
@@noth606 used one @4.5ghz paired with a EP45T-UD3P and a 750ti with a X-fi titanium on top, was a pretty darn good build already, but then upgraded to a Q9650@4ghz paired with a 960. totally overkill for any XP era games but it's pretty nice to have the option to use 2k/4k oversampling.
Your comment is 3 years old and I just read it. I hope you still have the machine. It sounds really similar to one I've built and still treasure... even though it can't run modern games.
I used a core 2 duo 4300 at the time insanely overclocked at 3.00 GHz, from 1.8. I was stunned with the overclocking capacity these processors had. I didn't like vista I remember at the time, and used to run xp up until windows 7 came out. I couldn't run crysis well at the time, but played the hell out of Oblivion and fallout 3!! Good times!!
@@AshtonCoolman It could be a side machine for him or be suitable for his needs still. For example I'm on a decade old Xeon sandybridge CPU and it does me fine.
Q6600 with 8GB DDR3 at work for still graphics and printing press work. Perfect, but huge boost from Core. 2 Duo. The DDR3 also makes it easier to overclock 2500k/rx570/12GB at home for games and some video
@@ayuchanayuko Dude, you should really upgrade to atleast q9400, trust me, its alot newer and and FSB is higher, hence, it will really take advantage of your DDR3 ram. Also, overclock would give it even more boost! P.S Never mind, didnt see that you have other rig which is actually your daily driver. But, still nonetheless, I just want to give advices :)
Intel: All you need is 2 cores for gaming! Amd: We made a triple core! Intel: All you need is 4 cores for gaming! Amd: Say hello to Ryzen! Intel: You know...maybe we should follow those AMD bastards with multi-core cpu's for gaming and charge mortgage payments for them instead of their reasonable prices? Let's Dew It! Amd: 4 Core 3300X $120 Gaming cpu! Intel: We hate you....
@@TheOliveboy93 Used prices are still super high for that reason, hope it will drop soon since i have a lot of DDR3 sticks laying around i could use with 2nd or 3rd gen i7.
In theory, the best "Gaming" CPU will always be a single core(and thread). You don't get the latancy, that is inevetable, when you have the processing split though multiple threads and cores. But again, the latency is something we humans are too slow to notice, so when we need the processing power, it is for now, the (only) way to go. To have "enough" processing power on one core, would require insane high frequency compared to multi core. And we know that 5 GHz is very dificult to top over on these types of Silicon used. We topped 5 GHz with Sandy Bridge back in 2011 (I'm not talking insane overvolting/ LN2 Cooling solutions)
Hello Phil; I have just built a new Core 2 duo retro gaming pc with an E7400 and a radeon HD 4890 under Windows XP and it is awesome. Thanks a lot for your top job, can't wait until next Friday. Best Regards from France :)
In about 2008 I built a computer for Autocad using an E8600. Most apps back then only used one core so you wanted the fastest cores you could get. Mine was easy to overclock to 4 GHz using an air cooler, I recall that people could get them to 7GHz using liquid nitrogen. I bought a Q9400 to use at home and found that I could overclock it to 3.8GHz or more so there wasn't much advantage to the E8600. I still use the Q9400 all day every day.
Ah the e8600 one of my favorite chips. With normal ddr2 at 800mhz you can easily reach 4ghz without touching the ram. i love this chip but, if you don't overclock it, the e8500 costs less and performs similarly. Speaking of E8500, in 2008, I used it overclocked at 4ghz with 4GB of DDR2 ram (clocked at 840ish mhz) and a 9600GT with 1GB of Vram. Good times. Thank you for reviewing this chip and yes, if you can, it would be nice to see how the dual core xeon performs.
I achieved 4.3GHz with the E8500 at 1.33 volts. I think the cheap mobo limited the fsb clockk but now I own a Asus P5k Deluxe with P35 chipset and the E8600 with higher multiplier and will try overclocking again soon :P
Back in 2008 I built my first computer. I was 15 years old and decided for an E8400 instead of a Q6600 for two reasons: Overclocking (which I never ended up doing, even though I imported from the USA a DFI P35-T2RS motherboard for that very same reason) and the fact that 2 cores were enough back in the day. I used that computer for nearly a decade, paired with a lovely XFX 8800 GT 512MB that kicked the bucket after 3 years. I'm still in love with that PC and has its own place at home. To this day I am trying to snag a cheap Antec Nine Hundred (like I used to have) online to build a retro PC on. Couldn't take mine since I moved to a different country a couple of years ago. Awesome video, Phil, keep up the good work!
I have an E8400 I use to play some old XP games. I put windows 10 on it once and it still holds pretty well according to today’s standards, considering how old it is.
6 MB of Cache, that's why the better C2D are so good. E8600 was a bit faster, but cost much more. And all C2D could be easily overclocked using FSB when having the right chipset. I'm still impressed how good it works with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD. But after 6+ months Win 8.1 Pro got way slower over time...the curse of using Windows, I guess. It's not much difference as using the WDC Black WD1002FAEX HDD, but that needs a whopping 8 watts of power alone. That's nearly the idle usage of a brand new Desktop PC, lol. SSD needs max. 2 watts, mostly 0.x watts.
I actually just built an XP machine with this very CPU because of the price. I cleaned and repasted a GTX 285 to use with it since my build goal was to use period accurate parts from 2008-2009 (Minus power supply, of course)
When this processor was released, people were still under the impression that multi-core was a stop-gap fad and that 10 GHz single core CPUs would still be a reality. Hence you had a majority (though only slightly, I recall) of recommendations going with the dual core because they felt the lower clock of the quad core would hurt it over time. Of course, the exact opposite happened, which was guessable at the time, but people just didn't want to face the reality of the power/thermal wall which turned clock speed gains from exponential to incremental.
Well I am still waiting for those Gallium-Arsenide chips that they promised us back then. It's not like they didn't have ideas to overcome the temal wall by using different materials. Just nothing came out of it. So, everything is foreseeable 10 years later.
That's not the case, by the time these were released we had already seen quite a few over the years and the results were clear. Multi core was the future. When it comes to deciding between these two you'd be better of with the dual core, and then upgrade to something far better like lynnfield. I'd rather wait for a real quad core processor than two dual cores glued together.
Still in 2020 i am using it with a amd r7 260x and 8gb 1333mHz ram. I don't game but I use it for AutoCad and light room and light gaming like bad north. Its still usable
clock speed is still king for gaming though. and games still put almost their entire load on one core. imho a quad core with hyperthreading is the current best balance of price and performance. i read a chart somewhere and it said that over half of active gamers have 4 threads or less. game companies know that and want to sell games. so we wont be using 16 cores for gaming anytime soon despite the predictions of AMD fanboys.
@@philscomputerlab With 4 cores and games from that era you will get context switching without some windows thread scheduler knowledge applied. Its not always as simple as it has higher clocks so it be faster yo. That and you can test a game from 2014 that still doesn't use SSE3 even on a ryzen CPU. Its on my channel. What you cover is even more relevant to this but of information you seem to ignore. Ill legit underclock my cpu put each game on 1 thread and objectively measure what spoofing does. You clearly cant be bothered.
@@philscomputerlab Put the OS exclusively as possible on 2 cores and if the game uses 2 threads force it to its own resource pool. That extra clockrate is going to basically cancel out once you are processing the background tasks on its own specific hardware. Its not rocket science.
On a slightly weaker CPU E8400 3GHz and a motherboard with G45 from recovery after replacing capacitors, I built a very pleasant to use PC to the Internet on the TV instead of a monitor. With SSD, 4GB RAM, RADEON 3550 graphics card with HDMI, you can even play World Of Tanks xD TH-cam max 1440p or 720p 60 fps.
I scored a dumpster pc with ddr 800mhz memory. Threw a $20 dollar ssd and maxed out the ram with this cpu. Does ok with browsing. I placed a gt1030 that I had and it can game somewhat reasonably (TF2, vr chat, csgo, dota). Later added a core 2 quad and it realy lit up.
Congrats on over 100k subs! I built my first PC since 2001ish in 2007. Went with the Q6600 and overclocked it to over 3ghz. Initially picked up the 8600GT to save some money until I upgraded to the GTX 260 Core 216 in 2008. I still have the Motherboard and CPU(Gigabyte P35-DS4 and Q6600) lying around. I occasionally use the 8600GT as well to check for a boot screen. My old X79 Extreme6 didn't like the Asus GTX980 I bought and wouldn't boot with it. When I swapped in the 8600GT it booted up perfectly fine. Luckily was able to swap the card for something else.
I overclocked my E8400 to 3,6Ghz back then but then switched to a q6600 overclocked to 3ghz until the end of 2017 when i built my amd am4 machine which saw a few upgrades since then. Latest upgrade was from Ryzen 5 1600 to a Ryzen 9 3900x simply awesome.
I'm pretty sure the 8600 was the processor I had in my system for almost 10 years. I definitely overclocked it, I was certainly feeling the limitations with it for some time. 😂
Nice video. Iam not very into overclocking, so back in the old days i bought a Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 with was clocked at 3 ghz. The Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 would have been slower in crysis and other games and was more expensive.
i've got Q6600 and overclocked it to 3.4 ghz. Have it till now, but downclocked it to 3 ghz , because of age of components (over 10 years). Now it doesnt have sense, as all socket 775 CPUs are cheap, get always e5450 for $20, or L5430 (low tdp 50W variant) if you dont want overclock, and have bad cooling. Q9650 stock equals about 3.3-3.5 Ghz Q6600. Tested it. Power consumption is even better than Q6600 at stock 2.4 ghz speed.
I was on the E8400 overclocked to 4GHz for quite a while. Back then it was so much snappier in Windows when compared to the quadcores. I was sad to leave it behind when games started to support quadcores better and better.
I have both E6600 and E8400, both are very fast, have quite much L2 Cache. Thought about changing it for an i5-2400, but the C2D is fast enough, lol, so I only swapped the GPU.
@@gamesandglory1648 Actually I wanted to say that, but 771 mod for some people can be confusing, hence I just say to them to get some good ass C2Q Q9xxx cpu
In 2008 I bought E8500 (it was cheaper than E8600 and could be OC'd with box cooler to 3.3 easily), GPU was GT 9600 512 MB, 2GB ddr2 RAM and P5K-Pro motherboard, I gradually upgraded it overtime to 4 and then 8 Gb RAM, replaced GPU with GTX 650, then with GTX 650 ti Boost, finally to GTX 670, I upgraded cooler, OC'd to 3.8 Ghz, then replaced with quad core (first Q series, then some xeon) and finally sold it in 2015 for around 150USD equivalent I really loved it, was not first which I built myself from scratch, but upgraded and OC'd and learned a lot of things Since then I started to collect and now I have top class ASUS P5E Deluxe and QX6700
I’m using the E8600 and a 7950GT as my ultimate Win98 machine, with an audigy for sound card. The XP machine I put together uses Haswell core I5/i7 and a GXT970 or HD7970 GHZ with the X-FI. The XP machine can also work as a Win7 machine for games and apps (I can trim the SDD once in a while). Love your videos Phil, always learning something that will be useful in the future. Cheers from Brazil.
Ahh, my favorite Intel CPU from the good old XP-days. :) I still have my E8600 which I got when it was released, coupled with an ATI 3870 which isn't the best but it still works. It ran really well for quite a few years, and it did overclock very well. I ran mine at 4.0GHz all day long with zero issues, and could push it to 4.2-something but that did run a bit too hot as I recall. I didn't upgrade until Ivy Bridge came out, got a 3570K with a GTX 680. That was quite an upgrade! Fun blast from the past, thanks for the excellent video (as always I might add).
I had an E6850, 4GB DDR2, an 8800 GT, SB Audigy 2 ZS PP and 2 WD Raptors in Raid 0. It was my first Intel based system since the Pentium 3. Athlon XP's all the way before that! A friend of mine had the exact same system, motherboard, cooler and everything, except he had the Q6600. The E6850 was slightly faster, especially overclocked, and certainly on (then) current and older games until about 1.5-2 years later when games started to take advantage of the additional cores. That system, with the exception of a graphics card upgrade, lasted me 'till 2012. Great video as always, Phil 👍
I remember upgrading to a x5460 771 and doing the 775 socket mod. Then quad core overclock to 4Ghz! That actually brings a lot of life back into that old platform.
Brazilian retro gamer here. My go to system for late 2000 games is a Core2Quad Q6700@3Ghz, 8Gb DDR2 800 CL4 and a beloved XFX HD5850 on dual boot WinXP HDD/Win7 64bits SSD
loving all the old retro builds and brought back some good memories of them, In this video I also dug out my 3.33 duo and installed it in my 775 board that was in a optiplex SSF " now sitting on my desk " with an AMD 7750 80gb sata drive. Also been testing out cpu-z benchmarks to see how much different the scores are, its been fun. Thanks for the videos and subbed ;-)
The soldiers at their posts... looking out to sea at the rising sun... a couple of jets fly overhead... an eerie silence... wait... a rustling in the bushes... what's that emerging?... "Hey guys welcome to another Friday video!"... Oh no its that talking metal dude again!
I was running XP Pro SP2 as my daily-driver OS until mid-2011, though I had mucked around with Win7 on some refurbished Dell Optiplex systems over 2009/2010, before building an all-new i7-2600K system with Win7 Ultimate 64-bit in mid-2011. Totally skipped over Vista. Went from 3GHz HT P4 on LGA775 to 3.6GHz 4c/8T i7 with that new system, had the 2600K reliably OC'd to 4.2-4.5GHz without problems as well.
Yeah this i7-2600K was _the_ Intel CPU for many years, because Core i gen. 3-7 wasn't soldered and run very hot, they saved some cents making each CPU and their boxed coolers are crap, too. It couldn't even cool a Pentium 4 Prescott S478, had 72 °C and reboots all the time. I also skipped ME and Vista, glad that I haven't seen the bugs, lol. Now I see Win 10 bugs and use 8.1 Pro instead...until 2023 at least. The older Dell Workstations are very robust, have a good cooling system and are cheaper than buying new stuff. Fujitsu, Dell, IBM/Lenovo, HP business class...tbh., I don't want anything else anymore, if buying 2nd hand. 260+ mio. PCs are trashed every year and even the old business class hardware is quite cheap, 150 bucks and you have a nice machine, change the GPU and you're done. I thought about switching to an i5-2400 at least, but the E8400 still is fast enough with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD. And when using Linux with Xfce or LXDE Desktop, it's even much faster again. So all my laptops run Linux now. But I "need" Windows for easy gaming on the desktop PC, WINE is too complicated for such a big collection of games.
Thank you for this cool channel. I will never again throw away computer hardware. Even checked all my basement etc. for old parts so I can do something with em, even if its just for some display stuff.
I know you have said you don't like overclocking but these core 2 duos overclocked really well if I recall correctly. Would have been interesting to see.
I have one of those C2D E8600, it overclocks at default voltage up to 4.10 Ghz with a nice heatsink. It is a beast. Intel artificially capped them at lower speeds so they could make the Core 2 Quads look better against the C2D
E8400 overclocks via FSB up to 4-4.2 GHz easily with the right chipset, f.e. Gigabyte EP35/45. I have such a board, but haven't tried it yet. The guy I got the board/CPU from had it overclocked, was at 4.1 GHz, but I never used it so. You can change clock / voltage of the CPU (not FSB) via RMClock or CPUGenie under Windows, btw., no need to go to the BIOS all the time to change some values. Don't forget to cool the whole board with big fans when overclocking. At normal frequency you can undervolt from 1.2 down to 1.0 or even 0.95 V, when overclocked, 1.1-1.2 instead of 1.3 V should be fine also. My Northbridge runs quite hot, because of using 4 RAM slots, needed a fan. I also want to test overclocking, but also want that it lives long, because my Pentium 4 board thermally died after 4 years and that's the fastest PC still here, next to a Xeon E3 Workstation, which is not for gaming.
Great to see fellow enthusiast discussing on these old tech. Had a few of these 775 in my possession. Itx board, great fun with e8400, e8600, q9300, q9650.
Yep, when my last socket a system seemed like it was dying at one point i was finally compelled and able to get helped to get a newer pc going, and at the time i started with an e6300; but with dead space on pc needing a quad, i saw the proverbial writing on the wall and since i had a first run 680i board, i picked up a q6600 once it was affordable. That was my main pc for the best part of a literal decade.
I got an E6300 PC some years ago for 20 bucks and the 1st thing I swapped was the CPU...put an E6600 in it for 10 bucks with double the amount of Cache and it's a big difference, 4 instead of only 2 MB L2 Cache. For most of the processes, the E6600 performs the same as the Q6600. Only some processes back in the day used multi core, maybe the Web Browser, 7z, WinRAR, Video Rendering stuff, but not much software and games. Now the things change, but back in that time... I still use these E6600 and E8400 PCs for web browsing and home office, they aren't really slow even nowadays. Ofc. an Core i or Core 2/4 Extreme is a big difference, but someone invented f.e. suspend/hibernate against waiting times or use Linux.
Great video! I built a Windows XP retro gaming PC with this CPU and an GTX 8800, 4 gigs of DDR2 and a Audigy EAX sound card. Runs everything from the early to late 2000s at 85 fps on a 19inch CRT. Its one of my favorite projects I did. It's blazing fast for Windows XP even at stock speeds. I think I spent a little over $130 on all of those parts from local Facebook Marketplace ads and a couple peripherals off of Ebay.
Good to be back watching PhilsComputerLab. In regards to this video I had upgraded to a Q6600 going from a Core 2 Duo E6300. I guess though I got another cpu to look at getting as it would be nice to have the fastest one can get for gaming with that Core 2 Duo E8600. My son's first pc is still going along strong and so yeah it's worth spending $10 US and the cheap shipping on and heck on my first order from there I will get a discount. Going to save that though and get this cpu with a big order from aliexpress.
I finally tore down my Core 2 Quad yesterday. A QX9650 on an Asus P5Q with 8GB of 1066 DDR2 and a 4GB Gigabyte 750 TI. Easily overclocked to 4.2 GHz with a Noctua NH-D15 but I hadn't powered this beast on in almost 6 months and I needed the room. Still hurt to disassemble.
Great Video.. I really wish you had a newbie side channel to explain things like EAX, Anisotropic filtering, Antialiasing, FPS, Pipelines and all the options for audio and video. I have vague ideas of what they are.. but a Rosetta stone for those of us without a lot of experience would be very helpful. Describing how you do the installs and why, are superb. Explaining the problems and workarounds.. like the USB stick preventing booting is AWESOME.. I've had the same problems with Intel 865 motherboards.
I love how you said "persevere". My friend tried on an even worse P4 X800GTO, got mostly to the end, and had to quit due to low frames. LOL. I didn't bother till i was on this 775 E series.
I'm using it today. I had to get my old desktop back in operation and just happened to had the money to upgrade some of the components. Through AliExpress I bought some stuff, i.e. I maxed out the processor that the M/B would accept with this one -E8600 E0- (up from the original E4500). New 600w PSU, new SSD and HDD -transfer from my laptop-, "new" DDR2 -667 RAM modules to top at 4 gb (up from 2) but only 3,37 usable tho... I belive it's because of the use of the old pci slots (sound blaster in there) in this ASUS P5LD2-X/1333 and a GT 1030 (up from old Radeon X1650). I'm using to work at home. It's more than capable enough to handle my online teaching activities, streaming video, web browsing and I also use it to play those old games that I just couldn't back in the day with the original configuration, or that would run below than playable fps (e.g. FSX). I'm currently using Windows 7 Pro x64 and I can say that this computer still has what I need to be used as my daily driver at the end of 2020.
I found that helpful. I am using a gtx295 with my e8600. I had considered the 750ti but the 295 works. I have been considering a 960 to go in my q9550 build so that was cool as well. I have picked up a couple of 1920x1200 monitors for these builds. They are getting tough to find. That resolution would be a nice addition in the benchmarks.
dude, try to get GTX 650 ti. GTX295 is SO unneficient card, that you are paying like $30 more every year on power consumption. Also DX11 support is from 400 series. You get even more spectrum of games. Look at this graph. Your card draws 55W in idle!!! www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti/25.html Modern cards draw like 5-15W in idle. And have same or better performance. Just get rid of that behemoth, you are paying price of 650ti twice over years for power electricity bill. 650 ti draws around 5W in idle. Or just get 750ti. Should have performance about that GTX 295, but draws 45W in gaming in average, while your card about 200W for same performance. www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-gtx-460-cyclone-oc-1-gb/8.html (750ti is about 40-50% faster than GTX 460... so try to count it from graphs, you have comparsion with GTX 295 there) Not to mention, that you cool 750ti/650ti easily, without any noise.
love that chip. it swaps out with my g9650, great thing about the 8600 is if your mobo supports overclocking set the FSB to 400 and bam! nice easy 4.0 ghz dual core.
I sincerely hope Crysis remaster will have a minimum requirement of a 6 core/12 Thread CPU so the AMD zombie army dominating youtube finally have a proper argument for the first time.
Built first rig all by myself in 2008 with E8500, overclocked it first to 3.6 and later to 4.2 GHz. It's still one of my favorite machines ever, still have it as a backup pc. Ordered E5450 from aliexpress to play with it and see how will it perform. Regarding XP and Vista I never used Vista, went straight to Windows 7 and only a few years after XP reached end of life.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this the whole way through, good work. :) I was using an AMD 4400+ CPU in that year though later in Q4 of 2008, I made the switch to the Q6600. Amazing CPU.
Well I don't know if you'll see this but here's the specs of my previous system which I still have. Last year I acquired 2 HIS Ice Q Turbo HD 6870's.o.k. system- Asus M2R32MVP mainboard AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 5000+ @2.61 Ghz 4Gb ram. 2 1Gig sticks from OCZ PC2 6400 Dual CH Platinum FR 4-4-4-15. And a bit later got a single 2 gig stick from Super talent that just says CL6. That probably is slightly conflicting with the OCZ timings. 1TB mechanical drive WD Sata. It started on a Radeon HD 6770, but shortly after getting the Ice Q's dropped one in. And it's all stuffed into a Lian-Li style clone case. It blew the 6770 out of the water. Oh OS is Win 10 32 bit. With the Ice Q 6870 it scored 40,868 3dmark03. 11,919 in 05.CPU scored 494. Still have yet to put the second on and activate crossfire and re-bench to see the difference. I used this system with the radeon 6770 from 2005 to 2017. And then in 2017 built my current Ryzen 5 1600 system. Everything running stock speeds.
The E8xx line s actually holding up okay for office/browser use! (Especially if you were lucky enough to not get stuck with motherboard limited to 4GB RAM...) The cores are still fast enough that if you have few enough "hot" threads or processes, you're fine. Even then, most programs aren't designed to where they will max out your cores on a regular basis or unexpectedly. Using an older computer, you just learn to do fewer "hot" tasks at once. And yes, the Q9xx series are holding up great!!
The quad cores aren't much better buddy, they haven't been useable in a very long time. The same cannot be said for what came just after, it's a pity people couldn't wait for it.
I was using e8400 for a week due to a problem with my main PC. What a nightmare experience!! Not even SSD can save this cpu. Nowadays applications and Win10 are just too "heavy" for this CPU. Back in the day it worked ok of course.
It's Win 10 which is slow as hell. Win 8.1 is way faster, but I guess 7 and XP are also way faster, not wasting so much ressources using group policies and background services, waiting for upgrades a.s.o. In 8.1 I can disable the updates, in 10 you can't do that anymore. On a not so slow Atom Z3740 Win 10 was a nightmare, Win 8.1 was fast and Xubuntu is even faster. The Win 10 OS changed everything. And even Chrome in Win 8.1 is slow as hell on an E8400, since they integrated the tool, which periodically searches for malware. I actually can't see much difference between the SSD and a WDC Black HDD opening the browser and booting Win 8.1. It started to get slower after 6+ months, when I had installed much software and the registry is full, getting more and more bloated, registering everything you use all the time. If you test or use Windows for only 6 months it's not getting so slow. And the main difference are the sluggish updates. So if you stay offline all the time, Win 10 also has to be way faster I guess. Meanwhile Linux Mint Xfce is lightning fast on the same E8400 machine using a slow 5400 RPM Laptop HDD, lol. Even the Firefox Browser is instantly open using Linux, no RAMDisk used, only standard settings. No antivirus, no unneeded background services, no group policies and updates are done in 2 mins... So it's the newer Windows versions, which get slow as hell with all the tracking and senseless logging stuff going on. Look at the WinSXS folder, lol. I disabled file history and snapshots, but it's also quite slow compared to Win XP and 7. The CPU itself is lightning fast until now. We only waste much ressources using Win 8-10 nowadays. Look at a 486 SX Laptop with maybe 33 MHz and slow HDD, Win 3.x and MS Word 5 is open instantly w/o any waiting time. I'm still impressed. Word 97/XP/2003 also was fast, 2007+ are slow as hell. Look at an i7-7700K Desktop with fast SSD, Win 10 and MS Word 2010 needs many seconds to open a simple word processor...because of many big libraries, .NET and such. The most operation systems and software are getting slower then the PCs getting faster.
Lol, that's basicaly me. I've bought Q6600 and overclocked it to 3.4 Ghz back in 2010, already as budget option. Q6600 was $100 back then, Q9650 was $200, it was too expensive. It was basicaly for same price, as i5 750, which was in generaly about 20% faster, slightly more power efficient, and could be even overclocked to 4.2 Ghz on air, while Q6600 had limit around 3.6 , Q9650 around 4 Ghz. I didn't have oportunity to change it, I was all the time on budget and didn't game a lot. For browsing and basic work, it is still enough. But recently I've switched to E5450, it is around $20, and it's basicaly Q9650. Definetly an upgrade from Q6600, if you don't want to change socket 775 platform, from any reason, search for socket 771 to 775 mod,or buy e5450 moded for socket 775 on aliexpress. The only thing, that upset me a little bit is power consumption, I recently bought watt-meter, and that overclocked Q6600 draws too much power. It was not worthy to use over years, I should switch to some 2C/4T i3 CPU, but anyway. It costed me about 200$ - $250 on power electricity over those 10 years, in those time I didnt know, how much overclocked CPU draws power, that differance is huge and it will acumulate over years. If you are building budget computer, that you want to use atleast 3-4 years, ALWAYS look for power consumption too. If you're on socket 775, always take 45 nm CPUs, and don't use socket 1366 overclocked Nehalems like i7-920, they look cheap, but they draw 100W more and 50W more in idle from same performing non-overclocked Haswells and Ivy Bridge (like 1230v2, 1230v3 etc) Also don't take those cheap e5-1650 140W TPD Xeons like Sandy Bridge on X79 LGA2011 platform, while overclock it. It looks cheap, but look at the power consumption www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-e5-1620-sandy-bridge-ep-xeon-review-4c8t-36ghz/intel-xeon-e5-1620-power-consumption/ 180W stock, almost twice as normal Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge if you overclock it, it will easily draw 250W!!! Instead of 90W (ivy bridge 1230v2) 115W (Sandy Bridge 1230v1) .
Around 2008 I had a Q9300 with a stock intel cooler (didn't know how to overclock), 4 GB of OCZ RAM, a PNY Verto GeForce 8600GT, and a GA-EP35C-DS3R for the motherboard; which was somewhat interesting because it supported both DDR2 and DDR3. That PC is still being used by my uncle to this day... he mostly just browses the web and does light photo editing. I don't know how it has survived so long. I also never moved to Vista on my desktop, I used XP for a while and then moved to XP 64-bit which was really just Windows Server 2003 with an XP skin. I waited until Windows 7 to upgrade off of XP 64-bit. A lot of people hated XP 64-bit, but I found it to be quite stable and compatible with everything I wanted to do.
Nice to see you with another video. I always seem to await your next video. Maybe throw in some videos with your favourite titles and and bit of a comparison of some core 2 duo , core 2 quad , fx6300 and 8 core Xeon or something. Or perhaps some emulation titles or some decent second hand bargains before tax time rocks up 👍
I had a C2D e8400 based computer back in the day running server 2k8. It was such a slim OS that just got the F out of the way, unlike Vista which fought you every inch. You had to turn on specific services like Audio or the Enhanced User Experience. It was an AMAZING time in computing and makes me yearn to rebuild a system like that again.
First thanks for all your videos Phil! It brings back valuable memories, refreshes my english, gives us more tools to play with and new options like with GPU FastVID, WDM vs. VXD drivers, Level Cache disabler for DOS, dgVoodoo2, Snappy Driver Installer, Easy2Boot, Gotek Floppy Emulator and even ISA Sound Card Initializer...wow, so much good stuff here in the channel! Thanks also for mentioning RAM timings, although I do know pretty much about hardware, repairing and software I wasn't aware of this timings for many years, thought 1600 MHz is always better than 1333 MHz and similar. DOSBox ECE is nice, but real hardware is better, ofc. I still have 2x MPU-401 compatible Miro Sound cards, had to be initialized under Windows 3.x or 9x, before DOS or Linux can use it, but one calls PnP, lol and another one w/o "PnP", very great cards for Tie Fighter and all the General MIDI and Roland sound stuff. A pal also has a Roland daughterboard for ISA. I have to try the Sound Card Initializer in a Legend QDI Pentium III Board with Pentium 700 100 MHz or 1000B 133 MHz CPU, that Board has ISA and PCI Slots. Only a very few Pentium 4 and some AMD Athlon boards have ISA, but many Pentium III Boards have. One could go for the 1.4 GHz Tualatin, ofc. Great that you found out, that ISA some times is even faster than PCI, like the 1st PCIe was slower and not that reliable like the older AGP Pro Port. It's great to still see people around having fun with computer parts and retro gaming. I started with a custom Sinclair ZX Spectrum micro computer mod with 3x 800 KB Floppies in a selfmade tower 30 years ago and had maybe 30-40 PCs in my lifetime yet, mostly used parts and it was so much fun back in the days where you could actually see every single new hardware was an improvement. Do you know, that dgVoodoo2 can not only be used as a 3Dfx glide wrapper or for real Geforce 4 Ti/FX shadows (Splinter Cell), but also for having maxed out resolution, FSAA and Mipmapping on older game engines? Use 1080p when only 1024x768 was usable from the game engine. You have to play NFS 6 HP2 with it, it makes a big difference on 1080 maxed out, not for bitmaps, but for rendered stuff. Yeah I love Far Cry, never got the 64 Bit mod with high distance working, tho. This Far Cry 1, Crysis I plus Maximum Edition are my all time favs, next to Just Cause 1. It's endless freedom. Tomb Raider Dagger of Xian is a nice fan remade with awesome graphics for a fan-based game, very professional. The E8400 was the cheaper brother of the 8600. You can even "overclock" it using the FSB, the E8400 can run at 4.0-4.2 instead of 3.0 GHz easily and can even be undervolted, using some chipsets like EP35 or EP45. Btw, CPUGenie and RMClock at least can change normal frequency, throttle and undervoltage in Windows on the fly, without the need of the BIOS. Undervolting to 1.0 or 0.95 V using normal FSB and clock frequency also makes it run very cool. I thought about swapping it with an efficient Xeon E5450 if not going for a high performance X model maybe even topping the QX9770, but an i5-2400 is faster and also cheap and retro friendly. My setup: C2D E8400 3.0 GHz, Gigabyte EP45-DS3LR, 7 gigs of mixed RAM. Tried to reball one defective 2 Gig RAM module, but wasn't lucky. Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS or HDMI sound. Btw. the Soundblaster card can use newer I think EAX 4 drivers than it was shipped with, having support for newer EAX games. Nvidia GT 1030 2 GB (old version with GDDR5). GPU+CPU passive with big heatpipes, put a 12 cm fan between the HDD cage and the mainboard cooling everything perfectly silent. My older Asus P4P800SE Pentium 4 board died. That's why I then used a 17 watts ATI 4550 and now 30 watts Nvidia GT 1030 GDDR5, it's very cool, energy efficient and enough for old games. WDC Black WD1002FAEX (one of the last and fastest 512 B Cluster HDDs from the WinXP era, which had no issues with data loss like the new 4096 B advanced formatted cluster HDDs on WinXP w/o the software fix). Samsung 850 EVO SSD to make it lightning fast and I think all 2+ Core CPUs are worth running an SSD. Also the price is the same 4 years later, must be good hardware. Win 8.1 Pro, because some day some games needed Win 7+. Back in 2008 I still used a Pentium 4 3200 S478 with Win XP, until it died because of the small fan. Btw., when an HDD gets some little weak/bad sectors, you can use the free HDAT2 tool alone or from UBCD or Hiren's Boot CD/DVD or the HDD Regenerator also does the same. Yeah I also had issues booting, when some USB drives are hooked up, had to disable them. Especially my Gigabyte Board also seems to have issues booting a normal USB Stick sometimes, then you have to completely pull out the AC plug or turn off the switch for some secs, normal ACPI shutdown is not enough for some reason. I now use an old rooted Android phone with DriveDroid app to boot the PCs directly from iso files...the cheaper and a bit slower way as using an Iodd 2531 virtual drive emulator with SSD, but quite fast compared to make USB Sticks and older DVD drive speeds. Nearly noone had those 72x CD drives back in the days. I had a very reliable and fast Teac CD-540e, but Flash memory nowadays is way faster. Easy2Boot on an USB-SSD should be very fast, too, haven't tried it yet. A similar Gigabyte Board of a mate, which has the QX9770 C2D Extreme wasn't able to boot an original bought Win 10 Home USB Stick, because of PMAP, lol. Had to copy it to another stick. I prefer Win 8.1 x86 for the newer games to not run into upgrade issues, turned off auto update and only use the monthly winfuture delta updatepacks in the middle of every month. The Android Web Alert app tells me when there's an update on the sites I need to check, saves some valueable time. I also used the 2 Sereby AIO runtimes setup at first installation, to make .NET, Java and all the stuff install fast, also saves some time. I always use GPartEd Live now for formatting, because it's more reliable, also when using Linux computers. Because Windows and even Acronis and Paragon don't see Ext4 partitions, f.e. GPartEd sees everything and you won't accidentally format a drive with a used partition then. It also can handle MBR/GPT easily. Strange is, some framerate locked games run with more FPS than 30 or 60 using WINE under Linux or maybe Batocera Plus, which now also has WINE included. Yeah I think using dgVoodoo should make NFS Underground playable even in 1080 resolution. I tried NFS 6 HP2 and it worked well. Here's a list of what runs fine using dgVoodoo2 and it's really easy and fast to use. Now every single cheap GPU can play old games at max. res and details, filters on 60+ FPS :) dege.freeweb.hu/Gallery/DXGamesGallery.html Oh wait, if you want max. performance, you can disable the c states and power management in the BIOS. Ofc. it eats way more power then. The Intel Core technology is using more halt states then clocking around. An E8400 mainly only does 2.0 and 3.0 GHz (multiplier 6 and 9) and much halt states in between, if you don't disable it in the BIOS. I've seen throttling under Windows and also RecalBox / Batocera, although it runs performance governor. This is because of the c and halt states, not only p states. You might also disable Hyperthreading and maybe even use Process Lasso Pro to assign everything else to other cores and the game, a web browser, rendering process or 7zip/winrar to only 1 physical core to gain 5-10 % more performance for free. It saves the settings compared to windows task manager and it's easy to tell all other processes to use low priority. Look for X-Plane micro stuttering on youtube, there's an explanation of frame drops due to priority of processes, but they don't explain the c-states BIOS settings. He yeah the Midnight racing series and Saints Row have very crappy controls on keyboard/mouse, guess you need a gamepad for those. Yeah I remember Crysis 1 and Maximum ran quite well also on even older Pentium 4 Prescott 3200 MHz with ATI 9800 SE soft modded to Pro. It really must be the multi processors and hyper threading which Crysis don't like, but a high clocked 1 core CPU at best performance. You definitely have to check out disabling c-stated, thermal monitor 2 and use Process Lasso Pro to de-priorize everything else on all other cores but Core 0/1 using low priority, but using only Crysis on 1 core with high priority w/o using HT. Select all but the game and set priority to low and other CPU cores. Close some processes, which aren't needed. Maybe even restart once before playing if on low RAM. Maybe even disable all but 1 core in the BIOS, dunno. Crysis 1 is something special. It's similar to the fact you disable RS232/LPT if not using it, saves some IRQ times. Maybe even don't use extra PCI cards, dunno, it all needs IRQ times. I would also put in an extra fan, because the CPU/GPU or even chipset may thermal throttle when it gets hot. That's what MacBooks or CPUs with tiny boxed coolers do all the time. HDMI vs. VGA: 1st time I saw HDMI I thought what's that...everything is cold blue white instead of more natural yellow/red white. I think the standard settings for RGB look better than HDMI, tbh and even 1080p on a 32 " TV works well with a short thick good shielded RGB cable with 2 ferrit cores on it, no ghost shadow like with the cheap cables. There's plenty 40 GB Intel SSDs in cheap 2nd hand industry PCs which work perfectly fine, btw. They also ran long time using WinXP, so TRIM, garbage collection, wear leveling mostly is no issue there. This nice water pearl effect in Crysis is because of DX 10. I also saw it with DX 9 graphics card using a soft DX 10 mod for it. Although NFS U2 also has this effect using pure DX 9. It would be great if you could show an AMD APU or Pentium J4105/J5005 or G4600. Maybe some day you get those somewhere. Thanks again for all the videos!
This was extremely identical to my setup. I didn't have much money to spare on an upgrade and my system was pretty outdated. So I had been given an e8600 from a friend who upgraded to a core i7. He gave me a really nice motherboard, but it was DoA. So I got one of these cheap asus boards. I put in 2 4gb memory sticks of ddr3 1600(8GB was amazing as I went from 1GB to 2GB before getting this) and overclocked the chip to about 3.6ghz with it. Thanks to the big memory upgrade, I finally decided to run windows 7 full time and finally abandon windows xp. I had a geforce 460 gtx in it and then upgraded to a 680 gtx. I had the same x-fi titanium as I was using razer tiamat 7.1 headset and needed a powerful sound card to drive it and had to still support 7.1 and creatives surround decoding. It sounds the best to me for upscaling games and audio. I now have a high end asus motherboard with amplified audio and a creative ae-5 sound blaster. I find I still prefer the 7.1 virtual decoder of asus and creatives surround for audio that is only 2 channels, which makes games sound better and music and movies. I still have a good pair of razer tiamat 7.1 and asus is able to amplify and make those sound really good with all the features in sonic studio 3, really my razer headset sounds better than ever. I switch back and forth with my beyerdynamics and tiamats depending if i want more bass. Either way I got good use out of that e8600. My only complaint was the terrible placement of the sata controllers and they were slow, so when I got an SSD, it only ran at half speed. I still have that corsair 240gb ssd and it still runs fine. Even if I don't use it in a main system anymore. It was a toss up between upgrading to a quad core or getting a newer system. I could only find q6600 and q8200 for mind you overpriced upgrades and q9550 and above for almost as much as getting a new i5 or i7 at the time, I just decided to get something better and abandon this old and aging platform. It handled well until I got an fx 8350x. I am glad the days of "most games run on 1 or 2 cores is gone". I was tired of hearing that argument for having more system power. I like to multitask and do many things on my pc. I only wish I had the best versions of each of my computers over the years for nostalgia. However I always just slowly changed everything over time. not generally quite a full new system at once.
Very timely that you should make this video. I have a spare core 2 duo and want to use it to build a retro XP machine for my younger sister to get her to look at some of her old games. Looks like I will be shopping for a board and various cards. Great info as usual. Cheers.
I perfectly remember that time from 2006 when I changed AMD XP1700 + @ 2GHz to E6400 2 MB, 2.13. On the board with P965 it obtained 3.2GHz at 1.35V. It worked like this for 4 years and on the newer ASUS motherboard with 16 power phases which I bought for C2Q 9550 (working 2 y on 3.85GHz) E6400 obtained a max OC 3600MHz. It was a piece of great silicon. I still have it in a drawer as a souvenir today. Used E6400 can be bought for 0.7-1 $ Used E8400 i bought for fun for 4$.
I used the E8400 back then, also overclocked it, though it didn't clock nearly as high as some people's. Saw all these reports of overclocks above 4 GHz, even 4.5 GHz, while mine was stuck at 3.8 GHz. Still, it was good enough that I didn't feel the need for one of the Q-series Core 2 quad cores. I only upgraded to more cores with the i7 860, didn't think we'd end up being stuck at 4 cores for almost a decade after. I didn't run Vista though, except initially after it came out. I tried using it for a few months but it was just too slow and would grind to a crawl after a few days without restarting. And after a restart it would takes 10-15 minutes before it would stop absolutely thrashing the hard drive and the computer became useable. And it wasn't some under-specced machine either, an overclocedk dual core with 4 GB of ram and two fast drives in RAID 0. So I switched to Windows XP x64, which I still maintain was vastly superior to 32-bit Windows XP, let alone to the Vista disaster. I used 64-bit Vista on a work laptop for a while and it improved a lot after some updates and service packs, but on my main desktop PC I stuck with x64 XP until Windows 7. In more recent years I built a high-end Windows XP retro system very similar to Phils', with an E8600 overclocked to 4 GHz, 4 GB of DDR3 (at the specced 1600 MHz, because FSB is overclocked to 400 MHz), a GeForce 950 and X-Fi sound card, all running off a 256 GB SSD. It ran beautifully, great performance but still extremely quiet and low power consumption, so I can highly recommend it. I did end up upgrading my XP config to an X5670 Xeon, also overclocked to 4 GHz, but that was mostly just because I managed to find an X58 motherboard for it for very cheap (like 10€) and I had never used that platform before, so I really wanted to try it out. But I still have that E8600 build set aside and ready to switch back to it at any time :)
Im using Q6600 from 2010 till now. But it was not worth it because of power consumption, had it overclocked to 3.4 Ghz. It drew like 250$ more over 10 years, from stock speed Q9650, which has similiar performace with only 3 Ghz. Definetely not worth as budget option. But back in days, was still expensive to switch to Q9650.
@@warrax111I know is not the best power efficient option but long time ago I haven't other option for the budget, and now how it is not a daily use PC only to play old game in the weekend or concent old hardware is not a big deal, and i have lying around a Phenon II 45w and a hd7750 but for nostalgia / software compatiblility i am reusing the q6600.
@@cybergarri yes, for occasional usage, Q6600 is perfectly fine. I'm glad, you 've found use for this legendary first 4core processor, that was my main for 10 years.
i read through the comments up to the time of posting and admit I missed your link to the store you mentioned. Zoom? Xoom? I did notice one other post that asked for it too. TIA and good solid vid.
I had an E4300 what an insane chip for overclocking! 1.8Ghz Stock - 3.4Ghz Overclock. Also lookup the BSEL mod for these chips, it was a great way to overclock on a motherboard that didnt support overclocking.
Had an AMD Athlon X2 6000+ together with a Geforce 8000GT (later two of them in SLI) back then. Phil .. ever thought of trying Crysis with a high-end P4 rig and the Radeon 3850 AGP?
Crisis ran pretty well on a P4 Prescott S478 3200 MHz on an Asus P4P800SE mainboard with 2x512 MB Kingston DDR400, a Powercolor ATI 9800 SE 128 MB soft-modded to Pro and even worked with DX 10 soft-mod. But this mainboard some times costs 80 bucks till nowadays, it's just crazy. Although I never benchmarked the FPS, but it ran quite good on it. Oh, btw. this P4 had HT, but I think the games run 5 % faster or with fewer micro lags w/o HT enabled. It's similar to X-Plane 10/11.
@Martin M It used to max both of the cores on my c2d, nearly maxed 3 on my 750 and 3570k (still ran at under 40fps in some areas at 4.4ghz). Haven't seen how it does on my 3700x because it isn't launching in windows 10 and I haven't felt like trying to fix it. Even the c2d should have twice the ipc though, p4 is probably beyond terrible at it.
I jumped on the Core2Duo in 2006. Overclocked an E6600 from 2.4GHz to 3.4GHz. No more lag from running windows processes while gaming! Right then I knew multicore was the future! That box was insane for 2006. Ran Vista when it launched. increased to 8GB RAM. I had a LAN party in a box. Gigabit for filesharing patches and other... questionable... things... Enough power to run the dedicated servers for D3/HL2/COD4 and also fire up the game client and join my own match! Literally jaw dropping considering prior to this we were all running P4s or Althons that chugged and stuttered if you forgot to disable file sharing and someone pulled a file off your box. Fastest Intel extreme edition was "only" 3.0GHz and was priced at whopping $1000!
I remember having an E8500 few years ago and it was a decent CPU for those things I did. When playing AC3 with a 9500GT, it actually runs slightly faster than with a Q6600 to my surprise.
Interesting Akhilesh...that explains everything with the combined 2x C2D. Plus, most of the processes/games back in the days only used a few cores, if not only one. The E8500 also has a higher clock and FSB as Q6600 (3.16 GHz 1333 MHz FSB 6 MB shared Cache vs. 2.4 GHz 1066 MHz FSB 8 MB shared Cache). So the Cache per Core is 3 vs 2 MB also, it makes a difference. The FSB makes a big difference. One can overclock a C2D CPU by 30 % of its base clock by using a higher FSB speed. and 1333 MHz FSB is 25 % faster than 1066 MHz base FSB. So the Q6600 from Q1/2007 most of the time isn't faster than each newer E8xxx CPUs from Q1/2008. They put in more Cache later. Only when using apps which can handle multicore or using many apps at the same time. userbenchmark site says the median of many tested Q6600 Quadcores are around 8 % faster only in benchmark conditions, not 100 % faster than the median of many tested E6600 Dualcores. And think about the difference in TDP, 65 vs 95 W TDP...it can't be twice as fast, but the 130 W TDP Extreme CPUs are way faster, but an i5-2400 is even faster.
@@sebastianebert4295 yes, even i3-3260 is faster than non-overclocked Q9650. But more power efficient. Now, it's always better option to go for Ivy Bridge chipset motherboard (Z77 B75) and take used Xeon like e3-1220 or even i3 2C/4T CPU. Because of power efficiency, and also USB 3.0. socket 775 doesnt have sense now
Great video, as usual! I'd really love to see a video about your collection, Phil. Something like Retrohardware does in his channel. I'm pretty sure you have a incredible collection, too! Cheers from Argentina!
2008? I was running a Phenom x4 9850+, Biostar TF8200 A2+ motherboard, 4GB ram, Radeon x1900xt most of the year, then a Radeon 4850 in December, 300GB HDD, on an antec 350W? PSU, and a cheap no name case from 2003. My Aunt actually still has that Phenom 9850+ and Biostar TF8200 A2+, now with 8GB ram, R7 240, 240 GB Samsung 840 Evo SSD, and its working great as an office pc running Windows 10. Its amazing how much tech has slowed down, where a 12+ year old motherboard and CPU are still more than capable of handling all sorts of modern tasks, honestly even low end gaming so long as the game doesn't need any instructions that the Phenom doesn't have.
Thanks for the info on using ssd in xp. You can use steam in xp too. Just install the latest version and let it update, then delete the folder. Download steam build 26-nov 2018 (not newer) and copy it to the location where steam was installed. Naturally do not update steam ever from there.
In retrospect I think the dual core was the better choice at that time (cost/performance wise). It took many years for quad cores to become relevant in most games. When it finally happened that quad cores became a must in most games, the speed of an old old Intel quad core CPU was already on the verge of too slow. If you kept the hardware for your eventual retro-PC then a dual core is for the period specific games a good choice as well. I like the old Intel quad cores though.
Quote: "fastest that I have" I think 960 is the fastest XP card there is, or I don't remember correctly ? My 2nd PC is E5450 (Q9650) with 8 gigs of DDR2 and GTX760 (used GTX970 on Win8.1 at some point) still holds good. Struggles with some online games (like ARK, Rust, etc...) but simple "shot em up" games it can handle very good, even modern ones.
The micro lag in online games are mostly long server pings. I played STO for a long time, until someone said there's other servers and bam, it ran so fast since then. C2D E8400 with ATI 4550 and later GT 1030 GDDR5 and after changing servers I thought I have a totally new PC, lol.
@Dr ROLFCOPTER! Can you share a link with more information to prove your claim? As far as I can find online is that Radeon R9 295X2 has drivers for Windows Vista and up. Please tell me what modded drivers would install R9 295X2 on a Windows XP.
Thinking this was never released here for retail while it exists as a xeon only still the xeon x5270 3.5 ghz. (Kind of want too get one just too see how far it would overclock on my p45 motherboard w ddr2 1066 mhz ram.) there are patches & mods too run socket 771 xeons after all in 775 motherboards.
The little Dell I use in my hobby room has an E8600! Not used for gaming though, it's just for music/video streaming and quick Internet look-ups when I'm working in there. And hey, it played this video at 1080p/60! It runs Win10 just fine on an SSD w/ 8GB of DDR3.
If you plan on revisiting this cpu I would strongly recommend overclocking it. Both the e8500 and e8600 were legendary for being massive overclockers, easily hitting 4.5ghz with air cooling and offering substantial performance improvements from that, letting them run games that came out much later without any trouble.
We ended this era of dual cores to move over to quad cores and ended up stuck on them until Ryzen. Don't trust monopolies!
And Ryzen Changed everything
@@dakata2416 It is!
But I live in free and democratic Taiwan where the Internet is uncensored and we can happily mock and criticise politicians. ;)
It won't be long when in the near future he'll be benchmarking a 6 core which would be outdated .
@@elstondias9172 Sounds like it's time for a Phenom II x6 video!
@Marco, We can't! Phil doesn't tested the Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+, it called "THE BOSS" by old AMD Fans and push it to his limits. Then we move on! :) I talking here 4GHz with a AM2 CPU!!! B)
I paid 400$ for my Core 2 Quad 9650 Extreme back in 09 & it wasn't a waste. I used that computer until 2 years ago & it still runs today. That Core 2 Quad system I ended up throwing an RX 480 8gb in it, even though the Motherboard could only handle 4Gigs of RAM it works well.
Agreed, many games run well on a Q9650!
Man with fsb oc and unlocked multiplier with good board and cooler you could really milk c2e for all they were worth
That realization of how life gets in front of some hobbies...
This is the processor in my current Gaming PC... Paired with a GTX 460 and dual-booting Win7/Win XP.
I so rarely even have much time to turn it on these days.
Great video and promising collection of titles that still run on this. Thank you!
I was thinking the same, but luckily my system is one year newer (i5 5200). But I guess it won't be long before Phil builds a "retro" system similar to my gear :p
Michael A Berry hehe I'm about to build a "new" retro gaming rig with an E8600, on an ASUS BLITZ motherboard with an X1900XTX and X-Fi Fatality, Corsair Ram and corsair sealed liquid cooling. That's to be a counterpart to my FX-60 AMD AGP rig which I even have a HD3850AGP for, but I have quite a few rigs in that kind of class, from Athlon XP Barton at 2133MHz to P4 at 3400MHz all top of the line stuff down to the ram and sound. If you start buying things when you see them cheap on a local site you can build up a collection of really cool stuff over time
To be fair, depending on the genre(s) you're into you, you didn't miss anything and you can already play the best games.
@@noth606 used one @4.5ghz paired with a EP45T-UD3P and a 750ti with a X-fi titanium on top,
was a pretty darn good build already, but then upgraded to a Q9650@4ghz paired with a 960.
totally overkill for any XP era games but it's pretty nice to have the option to use 2k/4k oversampling.
Your comment is 3 years old and I just read it. I hope you still have the machine. It sounds really similar to one I've built and still treasure... even though it can't run modern games.
I used a core 2 duo 4300 at the time insanely overclocked at 3.00 GHz, from 1.8. I was stunned with the overclocking capacity these processors had. I didn't like vista I remember at the time, and used to run xp up until windows 7 came out. I couldn't run crysis well at the time, but played the hell out of Oblivion and fallout 3!! Good times!!
I'm still rocking my Q6600 G0 stepping. Overclocking was a lot more fun back then.
That's great...but you need to upgrade. A mere Ryzen 3 3300X will melt your brain with its performance.
@@AshtonCoolman It could be a side machine for him or be suitable for his needs still. For example I'm on a decade old Xeon sandybridge CPU and it does me fine.
@@AshtonCoolman I upgraded from q6600 to q9550 just two days ago because i got hd 7870 gpu. All I can say is that it does the job for my needs.
Q6600 with 8GB DDR3 at work for still graphics and printing press work. Perfect, but huge boost from Core. 2 Duo. The DDR3 also makes it easier to overclock
2500k/rx570/12GB at home for games and some video
@@ayuchanayuko Dude, you should really upgrade to atleast q9400, trust me, its alot newer and and FSB is higher, hence, it will really take advantage of your DDR3 ram. Also, overclock would give it even more boost!
P.S Never mind, didnt see that you have other rig which is actually your daily driver. But, still nonetheless, I just want to give advices :)
Intel: All you need is 2 cores for gaming!
Amd: We made a triple core!
Intel: All you need is 4 cores for gaming!
Amd: Say hello to Ryzen!
Intel: You know...maybe we should follow those AMD bastards with multi-core cpu's for gaming and charge mortgage payments for them instead of their reasonable prices? Let's Dew It!
Amd: 4 Core 3300X $120 Gaming cpu!
Intel: We hate you....
Shiiii... today you can still comfortably game on a 2nd and 3rd gen i5 & i7
4c 8t premium price, unlocked multiplier :3
@@TheOliveboy93 Used prices are still super high for that reason, hope it will drop soon since i have a lot of DDR3 sticks laying around i could use with 2nd or 3rd gen i7.
This is a biased representation of facts 😂.
Let's just ignore AMD's FX days eh? 🤫🤐😬
In theory, the best "Gaming" CPU will always be a single core(and thread). You don't get the latancy, that is inevetable, when you have the processing split though multiple threads and cores.
But again, the latency is something we humans are too slow to notice, so when we need the processing power, it is for now, the (only) way to go. To have "enough" processing power on one core, would require insane high frequency compared to multi core. And we know that 5 GHz is very dificult to top over on these types of Silicon used. We topped 5 GHz with Sandy Bridge back in 2011 (I'm not talking insane overvolting/ LN2 Cooling solutions)
Hello Phil; I have just built a new Core 2 duo retro gaming pc with an E7400 and a radeon HD 4890 under Windows XP and it is awesome. Thanks a lot for your top job, can't wait until next Friday. Best Regards from France :)
👍👍👍 One of the best Intel's CPU series, great memories! Now my C2D E8400 was replaced by a Xeon X5460, a second PC just in case. Cheers!
In about 2008 I built a computer for Autocad using an E8600. Most apps back then only used one core so you wanted the fastest cores you could get. Mine was easy to overclock to 4 GHz using an air cooler, I recall that people could get them to 7GHz using liquid nitrogen. I bought a Q9400 to use at home and found that I could overclock it to 3.8GHz or more so there wasn't much advantage to the E8600. I still use the Q9400 all day every day.
Ah the e8600 one of my favorite chips. With normal ddr2 at 800mhz you can easily reach 4ghz without touching the ram. i love this chip but, if you don't overclock it, the e8500 costs less and performs similarly. Speaking of E8500, in 2008, I used it overclocked at 4ghz with 4GB of DDR2 ram (clocked at 840ish mhz) and a 9600GT with 1GB of Vram. Good times. Thank you for reviewing this chip and yes, if you can, it would be nice to see how the dual core xeon performs.
I achieved 4.3GHz with the E8500 at 1.33 volts. I think the cheap mobo limited the fsb clockk but now I own a Asus P5k Deluxe with P35 chipset and the E8600 with higher multiplier and will try overclocking again soon :P
Back in 2008 I built my first computer. I was 15 years old and decided for an E8400 instead of a Q6600 for two reasons: Overclocking (which I never ended up doing, even though I imported from the USA a DFI P35-T2RS motherboard for that very same reason) and the fact that 2 cores were enough back in the day. I used that computer for nearly a decade, paired with a lovely XFX 8800 GT 512MB that kicked the bucket after 3 years. I'm still in love with that PC and has its own place at home. To this day I am trying to snag a cheap Antec Nine Hundred (like I used to have) online to build a retro PC on. Couldn't take mine since I moved to a different country a couple of years ago. Awesome video, Phil, keep up the good work!
Q6600 lacks sse 4.1 as well
I have an E8400 I use to play some old XP games. I put windows 10 on it once and it still holds pretty well according to today’s standards, considering how old it is.
I've never expected that an 11-year old CPU would hold up so well.
had an amd 350 laptop and it was too slow for even office things. Got an e8400 with win 10 and its blistering faster. Both had the same SSD build in.
Good instruction set SSE3S and SSE4.1 i think
6 MB of Cache, that's why the better C2D are so good.
E8600 was a bit faster, but cost much more.
And all C2D could be easily overclocked using FSB when having the right chipset.
I'm still impressed how good it works with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD. But after 6+ months Win 8.1 Pro got way slower over time...the curse of using Windows, I guess.
It's not much difference as using the WDC Black WD1002FAEX HDD, but that needs a whopping 8 watts of power alone. That's nearly the idle usage of a brand new Desktop PC, lol.
SSD needs max. 2 watts, mostly 0.x watts.
@@sebastianebert4295 Windows 8 sucks xD 8.1 is better but still having bugs...
I still use an X-Fi Titanium in my main PC to this day. Amazing card!
I actually just built an XP machine with this very CPU because of the price. I cleaned and repasted a GTX 285 to use with it since my build goal was to use period accurate parts from 2008-2009 (Minus power supply, of course)
When this processor was released, people were still under the impression that multi-core was a stop-gap fad and that 10 GHz single core CPUs would still be a reality. Hence you had a majority (though only slightly, I recall) of recommendations going with the dual core because they felt the lower clock of the quad core would hurt it over time. Of course, the exact opposite happened, which was guessable at the time, but people just didn't want to face the reality of the power/thermal wall which turned clock speed gains from exponential to incremental.
Well I am still waiting for those Gallium-Arsenide chips that they promised us back then. It's not like they didn't have ideas to overcome the temal wall by using different materials. Just nothing came out of it.
So, everything is foreseeable 10 years later.
That's not the case, by the time these were released we had already seen quite a few over the years and the results were clear. Multi core was the future.
When it comes to deciding between these two you'd be better of with the dual core, and then upgrade to something far better like lynnfield.
I'd rather wait for a real quad core processor than two dual cores glued together.
Still in 2020 i am using it with a amd r7 260x and 8gb 1333mHz ram. I don't game but I use it for AutoCad and light room and light gaming like bad north. Its still usable
Hence why Crysis can still be a bitch to run in some cases
clock speed is still king for gaming though. and games still put almost their entire load on one core. imho a quad core with hyperthreading is the current best balance of price and performance. i read a chart somewhere and it said that over half of active gamers have 4 threads or less. game companies know that and want to sell games. so we wont be using 16 cores for gaming anytime soon despite the predictions of AMD fanboys.
Philday is my favorite day of the week.
Congratulations on passing 100K subscribers Phil! 👍
Thank you so much 😀
@@philscomputerlab
With 4 cores and games from that era you will get context switching without some windows thread scheduler knowledge applied.
Its not always as simple as it has higher clocks so it be faster yo.
That and you can test a game from 2014 that still doesn't use SSE3 even on a ryzen CPU. Its on my channel. What you cover is even more relevant to this but of information you seem to ignore.
Ill legit underclock my cpu put each game on 1 thread and objectively measure what spoofing does. You clearly cant be bothered.
@@philscomputerlab
Put the OS exclusively as possible on 2 cores and if the game uses 2 threads force it to its own resource pool. That extra clockrate is going to basically cancel out once you are processing the background tasks on its own specific hardware. Its not rocket science.
@@philscomputerlab
I mean isnt this channel about education?
No?
This cpu is still strong. I use this for office and some old games 2006-2015 and it works fine with the geforce gt 430
exactly
On a slightly weaker CPU E8400 3GHz and a motherboard with G45 from recovery after replacing capacitors, I built a very pleasant to use PC to the Internet on the TV instead of a monitor. With SSD, 4GB RAM, RADEON 3550 graphics card with HDMI, you can even play World Of Tanks xD TH-cam max 1440p or 720p 60 fps.
I scored a dumpster pc with ddr 800mhz memory. Threw a $20 dollar ssd and maxed out the ram with this cpu. Does ok with browsing. I placed a gt1030 that I had and it can game somewhat reasonably (TF2, vr chat, csgo, dota). Later added a core 2 quad and it realy lit up.
they also undervolt really well, took my e7500 from 1.285v down to 1.150 with an overclock to 3.3
Congrats on over 100k subs!
I built my first PC since 2001ish in 2007. Went with the Q6600 and overclocked it to over 3ghz. Initially picked up the 8600GT to save some money until I upgraded to the GTX 260 Core 216 in 2008.
I still have the Motherboard and CPU(Gigabyte P35-DS4 and Q6600) lying around. I occasionally use the 8600GT as well to check for a boot screen. My old X79 Extreme6 didn't like the Asus GTX980 I bought and wouldn't boot with it. When I swapped in the 8600GT it booted up perfectly fine. Luckily was able to swap the card for something else.
Thank you! It’s always a pleasure to see your channel. 4K production, curious hardware, old gadgets, great stuff!
I overclocked my E8400 to 3,6Ghz back then but then switched to a q6600 overclocked to 3ghz until the end of 2017 when i built my amd am4 machine which saw a few upgrades since then.
Latest upgrade was from Ryzen 5 1600 to a Ryzen 9 3900x simply awesome.
I'm pretty sure the 8600 was the processor I had in my system for almost 10 years. I definitely overclocked it, I was certainly feeling the limitations with it for some time. 😂
Also the heart of my XP rig with 750Ti 👌 I actually replaced 9550 with this one and got better results! 😊
Nice video. Iam not very into overclocking, so back in the old days i bought a Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 with was clocked at 3 ghz. The Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 would have been slower in crysis and other games and was more expensive.
i've got Q6600 and overclocked it to 3.4 ghz. Have it till now, but downclocked it to 3 ghz , because of age of components (over 10 years). Now it doesnt have sense, as all socket 775 CPUs are cheap, get always e5450 for $20, or L5430 (low tdp 50W variant) if you dont want overclock, and have bad cooling. Q9650 stock equals about 3.3-3.5 Ghz Q6600. Tested it. Power consumption is even better than Q6600 at stock 2.4 ghz speed.
I was on the E8400 overclocked to 4GHz for quite a while. Back then it was so much snappier in Windows when compared to the quadcores. I was sad to leave it behind when games started to support quadcores better and better.
Good ol core 2 series. Original was going get a e8400 but ended up getting a q6600. Now that was great chip.
I have both E6600 and E8400, both are very fast, have quite much L2 Cache.
Thought about changing it for an i5-2400, but the C2D is fast enough, lol, so I only swapped the GPU.
had E8400, aged like milk, fast
went to HEDT in late 2o14
@@sebastianebert4295 Just get some q9550 and clock it to 3.4ghz, it will be cheap and massive improvement :)
@@someboringperson9359 or, if their motherboard supports it, the x5450 lga with lga 771 to 775 mod is a good option
@@gamesandglory1648 Actually I wanted to say that, but 771 mod for some people can be confusing, hence I just say to them to get some good ass C2Q Q9xxx cpu
In 2008 I bought E8500 (it was cheaper than E8600 and could be OC'd with box cooler to 3.3 easily), GPU was GT 9600 512 MB, 2GB ddr2 RAM and P5K-Pro motherboard, I gradually upgraded it overtime to 4 and then 8 Gb RAM, replaced GPU with GTX 650, then with GTX 650 ti Boost, finally to GTX 670, I upgraded cooler, OC'd to 3.8 Ghz, then replaced with quad core (first Q series, then some xeon) and finally sold it in 2015 for around 150USD equivalent
I really loved it, was not first which I built myself from scratch, but upgraded and OC'd and learned a lot of things
Since then I started to collect and now I have top class ASUS P5E Deluxe and QX6700
I’m using the E8600 and a 7950GT as my ultimate Win98 machine, with an audigy for sound card. The XP machine I put together uses Haswell core I5/i7 and a GXT970 or HD7970 GHZ with the X-FI. The XP machine can also work as a Win7 machine for games and apps (I can trim the SDD once in a while). Love your videos Phil, always learning something that will be useful in the future. Cheers from Brazil.
Beautiful!
Ahh, my favorite Intel CPU from the good old XP-days. :)
I still have my E8600 which I got when it was released, coupled with an ATI 3870 which isn't the best but it still works.
It ran really well for quite a few years, and it did overclock very well. I ran mine at 4.0GHz all day long with zero issues, and could push it to 4.2-something but that did run a bit too hot as I recall.
I didn't upgrade until Ivy Bridge came out, got a 3570K with a GTX 680. That was quite an upgrade!
Fun blast from the past, thanks for the excellent video (as always I might add).
I had an E6850, 4GB DDR2, an 8800 GT, SB Audigy 2 ZS PP and 2 WD Raptors in Raid 0. It was my first Intel based system since the Pentium 3. Athlon XP's all the way before that! A friend of mine had the exact same system, motherboard, cooler and everything, except he had the Q6600. The E6850 was slightly faster, especially overclocked, and certainly on (then) current and older games until about 1.5-2 years later when games started to take advantage of the additional cores. That system, with the exception of a graphics card upgrade, lasted me 'till 2012. Great video as always, Phil 👍
Great video Phil, congrats on reaching 100K Subs, keep up the good work
Thanks, you too!
I remember upgrading to a x5460 771 and doing the 775 socket mod. Then quad core overclock to 4Ghz! That actually brings a lot of life back into that old platform.
Brazilian retro gamer here. My go to system for late 2000 games is a Core2Quad Q6700@3Ghz, 8Gb DDR2 800 CL4 and a beloved XFX HD5850 on dual boot WinXP HDD/Win7 64bits SSD
loving all the old retro builds and brought back some good memories of them, In this video I also dug out my 3.33 duo and installed it in my 775 board that was in a optiplex SSF " now sitting on my desk " with an AMD 7750 80gb sata drive. Also been testing out cpu-z benchmarks to see how much different the scores are, its been fun. Thanks for the videos and subbed ;-)
Days of the week:
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Philsday
Saturday
Sunday
Aaaaaaaaaw
The soldiers at their posts... looking out to sea at the rising sun... a couple of jets fly overhead... an eerie silence... wait... a rustling in the bushes... what's that emerging?... "Hey guys welcome to another Friday video!"... Oh no its that talking metal dude again!
I was running XP Pro SP2 as my daily-driver OS until mid-2011, though I had mucked around with Win7 on some refurbished Dell Optiplex systems over 2009/2010, before building an all-new i7-2600K system with Win7 Ultimate 64-bit in mid-2011. Totally skipped over Vista.
Went from 3GHz HT P4 on LGA775 to 3.6GHz 4c/8T i7 with that new system, had the 2600K reliably OC'd to 4.2-4.5GHz without problems as well.
I was on and off with Vista and even dual booting for ages. TV tuner wouldn't work with Vista. Printer would not work...
Heh, I kept using XP SP3 until January 2013.
Ha, I'm using XP-SP3 (MSDN release) as we speak. :P
Yeah this i7-2600K was _the_ Intel CPU for many years, because Core i gen. 3-7 wasn't soldered and run very hot, they saved some cents making each CPU and their boxed coolers are crap, too. It couldn't even cool a Pentium 4 Prescott S478, had 72 °C and reboots all the time.
I also skipped ME and Vista, glad that I haven't seen the bugs, lol.
Now I see Win 10 bugs and use 8.1 Pro instead...until 2023 at least.
The older Dell Workstations are very robust, have a good cooling system and are cheaper than buying new stuff.
Fujitsu, Dell, IBM/Lenovo, HP business class...tbh., I don't want anything else anymore, if buying 2nd hand.
260+ mio. PCs are trashed every year and even the old business class hardware is quite cheap, 150 bucks and you have a nice machine, change the GPU and you're done.
I thought about switching to an i5-2400 at least, but the E8400 still is fast enough with a Samsung 850 EVO SSD.
And when using Linux with Xfce or LXDE Desktop, it's even much faster again. So all my laptops run Linux now. But I "need" Windows for easy gaming on the desktop PC, WINE is too complicated for such a big collection of games.
Thank you for this cool channel. I will never again throw away computer hardware. Even checked all my basement etc. for old parts so I can do something with em, even if its just for some display stuff.
I know you have said you don't like overclocking but these core 2 duos overclocked really well if I recall correctly. Would have been interesting to see.
I have one of those C2D E8600, it overclocks at default voltage up to 4.10 Ghz with a nice heatsink. It is a beast. Intel artificially capped them at lower speeds so they could make the Core 2 Quads look better against the C2D
E8400 overclocks via FSB up to 4-4.2 GHz easily with the right chipset, f.e. Gigabyte EP35/45. I have such a board, but haven't tried it yet.
The guy I got the board/CPU from had it overclocked, was at 4.1 GHz, but I never used it so.
You can change clock / voltage of the CPU (not FSB) via RMClock or CPUGenie under Windows, btw., no need to go to the BIOS all the time to change some values.
Don't forget to cool the whole board with big fans when overclocking.
At normal frequency you can undervolt from 1.2 down to 1.0 or even 0.95 V, when overclocked, 1.1-1.2 instead of 1.3 V should be fine also.
My Northbridge runs quite hot, because of using 4 RAM slots, needed a fan.
I also want to test overclocking, but also want that it lives long, because my Pentium 4 board thermally died after 4 years and that's the fastest PC still here, next to a Xeon E3 Workstation, which is not for gaming.
got mine up to 4.5ghz without breakin' a sweat on a 240mm AIO, pretty sure it could be done on air with a decent cooler.
I loved my E8400.... ended up swapping it out for an "upgrade" which was a Q6600 and used that until roughly 2013....
Great to see fellow enthusiast discussing on these old tech. Had a few of these 775 in my possession. Itx board, great fun with e8400, e8600, q9300, q9650.
Great content 👍 I was using a dell Optiplex 760 SFF with a E8400 recently. A great silent machine running very smooth under XP
Yep, when my last socket a system seemed like it was dying at one point i was finally compelled and able to get helped to get a newer pc going, and at the time i started with an e6300; but with dead space on pc needing a quad, i saw the proverbial writing on the wall and since i had a first run 680i board, i picked up a q6600 once it was affordable. That was my main pc for the best part of a literal decade.
I got an E6300 PC some years ago for 20 bucks and the 1st thing I swapped was the CPU...put an E6600 in it for 10 bucks with double the amount of Cache and it's a big difference, 4 instead of only 2 MB L2 Cache.
For most of the processes, the E6600 performs the same as the Q6600.
Only some processes back in the day used multi core, maybe the Web Browser, 7z, WinRAR, Video Rendering stuff, but not much software and games. Now the things change, but back in that time...
I still use these E6600 and E8400 PCs for web browsing and home office, they aren't really slow even nowadays.
Ofc. an Core i or Core 2/4 Extreme is a big difference, but someone invented f.e. suspend/hibernate against waiting times or use Linux.
Great video! I built a Windows XP retro gaming PC with this CPU and an GTX 8800, 4 gigs of DDR2 and a Audigy EAX sound card. Runs everything from the early to late 2000s at 85 fps on a 19inch CRT. Its one of my favorite projects I did. It's blazing fast for Windows XP even at stock speeds. I think I spent a little over $130 on all of those parts from local Facebook Marketplace ads and a couple peripherals off of Ebay.
Good to be back watching PhilsComputerLab. In regards to this video I had upgraded to a Q6600 going from a Core 2 Duo E6300. I guess though I got another cpu to look at getting as it would be nice to have the fastest one can get for gaming with that Core 2 Duo E8600. My son's first pc is still going along strong and so yeah it's worth spending $10 US and the cheap shipping on and heck on my first order from there I will get a discount. Going to save that though and get this cpu with a big order from aliexpress.
Nice build! I love these three graphic cards. On 15:11 I believe this is Colin McRae 3 or 4... ;)
Yup, ran a p4 3.2 with HT and skipped over the dual core line to go directly to a q6600...
I finally tore down my Core 2 Quad yesterday. A QX9650 on an Asus P5Q with 8GB of 1066 DDR2 and a 4GB Gigabyte 750 TI. Easily overclocked to 4.2 GHz with a Noctua NH-D15 but I hadn't powered this beast on in almost 6 months and I needed the room. Still hurt to disassemble.
Thanks for the Snappy Driver tip, wasn’t aware of it.
I love seeing all these games run with all the correct reflections and visual effects working correctly.
Great Video.. I really wish you had a newbie side channel to explain things like EAX, Anisotropic filtering, Antialiasing, FPS, Pipelines and all the options for audio and video. I have vague ideas of what they are.. but a Rosetta stone for those of us without a lot of experience would be very helpful. Describing how you do the installs and why, are superb. Explaining the problems and workarounds.. like the USB stick preventing booting is AWESOME.. I've had the same problems with Intel 865 motherboards.
That could be something for a Tuesday bonus video!
I had a Core2Duo E6600 paired with a Geforce 8800GT in 2008. Wasn't high end but I managed to persevere my way through Crysis using it!
Same! E6600 overclocked and I got a 8800 GT when they launched!
I love how you said "persevere". My friend tried on an even worse P4 X800GTO, got mostly to the end, and had to quit due to low frames. LOL. I didn't bother till i was on this 775 E series.
I'm using it today. I had to get my old desktop back in operation and just happened to had the money to upgrade some of the components. Through AliExpress I bought some stuff, i.e. I maxed out the processor that the M/B would accept with this one -E8600 E0- (up from the original E4500). New 600w PSU, new SSD and HDD -transfer from my laptop-, "new" DDR2 -667 RAM modules to top at 4 gb (up from 2) but only 3,37 usable tho... I belive it's because of the use of the old pci slots (sound blaster in there) in this ASUS P5LD2-X/1333 and a GT 1030 (up from old Radeon X1650). I'm using to work at home. It's more than capable enough to handle my online teaching activities, streaming video, web browsing and I also use it to play those old games that I just couldn't back in the day with the original configuration, or that would run below than playable fps (e.g. FSX). I'm currently using Windows 7 Pro x64 and I can say that this computer still has what I need to be used as my daily driver at the end of 2020.
Oldies but goldies.
This bad boy paired with a 9800GT was the move back in my day.
ahhh... my system a long time ago, this is some nostalgia.
Seeing you play chaos theory and NFSU2 brought back some good old memories! Chaos theory was sooooo fun playing online.
Back in 2008 I was rocking a Sempron single core at 1.8GHz. It was a good runner.
Gunship! was a unfinished game released when microprose was going belly up.
I found that helpful. I am using a gtx295 with my e8600. I had considered the 750ti but the 295 works. I have been considering a 960 to go in my q9550 build so that was cool as well. I have picked up a couple of 1920x1200 monitors for these builds. They are getting tough to find. That resolution would be a nice addition in the benchmarks.
dude, try to get GTX 650 ti.
GTX295 is SO unneficient card, that you are paying like $30 more every year on power consumption. Also DX11 support is from 400 series. You get even more spectrum of games.
Look at this graph. Your card draws 55W in idle!!!
www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti/25.html
Modern cards draw like 5-15W in idle. And have same or better performance.
Just get rid of that behemoth, you are paying price of 650ti twice over years for power electricity bill. 650 ti draws around 5W in idle.
Or just get 750ti. Should have performance about that GTX 295, but draws 45W in gaming in average, while your card about 200W for same performance.
www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-gtx-460-cyclone-oc-1-gb/8.html
(750ti is about 40-50% faster than GTX 460... so try to count it from graphs, you have comparsion with GTX 295 there)
Not to mention, that you cool 750ti/650ti easily, without any noise.
love that chip. it swaps out with my g9650, great thing about the 8600 is if your mobo supports overclocking set the FSB to 400 and bam! nice easy 4.0 ghz dual core.
If Crysis Remastered is released, the meme "Can it run Crysis" WILL BE REBORN.
Only the original Crysis counts :)
Meeh, the F.E.A.R.-Games are much better!
- Can it run Crysis ?
- Yeah
- Ok, but can it run Crysis ?
hopefully the crysis remaster is the opposite of the original expecting millions of cores in future rather than infinite clock speed
I sincerely hope Crysis remaster will have a minimum requirement of a 6 core/12 Thread CPU so the AMD zombie army dominating youtube finally have a proper argument for the first time.
Built first rig all by myself in 2008 with E8500, overclocked it first to 3.6 and later to 4.2 GHz. It's still one of my favorite machines ever, still have it as a backup pc. Ordered E5450 from aliexpress to play with it and see how will it perform. Regarding XP and Vista I never used Vista, went straight to Windows 7 and only a few years after XP reached end of life.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this the whole way through, good work. :) I was using an AMD 4400+ CPU in that year though later in Q4 of 2008, I made the switch to the Q6600. Amazing CPU.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I had C2D E7500 and I was happy back in the days :)
Well I don't know if you'll see this but here's the specs of my previous system which I still have. Last year I acquired 2 HIS Ice Q Turbo HD 6870's.o.k. system- Asus M2R32MVP mainboard AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 5000+ @2.61 Ghz 4Gb ram. 2 1Gig sticks from OCZ PC2 6400 Dual CH Platinum FR 4-4-4-15. And a bit later got a single 2 gig stick from Super talent that just says CL6. That probably is slightly conflicting with the OCZ timings. 1TB mechanical drive WD Sata. It started on a Radeon HD 6770, but shortly after getting the Ice Q's dropped one in. And it's all stuffed into a Lian-Li style clone case. It blew the 6770 out of the water. Oh OS is Win 10 32 bit. With the Ice Q 6870 it scored 40,868 3dmark03. 11,919 in 05.CPU scored 494. Still have yet to put the second on and activate crossfire and re-bench to see the difference. I used this system with the radeon 6770 from 2005 to 2017. And then in 2017 built my current Ryzen 5 1600 system. Everything running stock speeds.
Amazing that someone who bought the Q9650 in '08 would still have a usable computer even today. The E8600? Not so much...
The E8xx line s actually holding up okay for office/browser use! (Especially if you were lucky enough to not get stuck with motherboard limited to 4GB RAM...) The cores are still fast enough that if you have few enough "hot" threads or processes, you're fine. Even then, most programs aren't designed to where they will max out your cores on a regular basis or unexpectedly. Using an older computer, you just learn to do fewer "hot" tasks at once. And yes, the Q9xx series are holding up great!!
The quad cores aren't much better buddy, they haven't been useable in a very long time. The same cannot be said for what came just after, it's a pity people couldn't wait for it.
I was using e8400 for a week due to a problem with my main PC. What a nightmare experience!! Not even SSD can save this cpu. Nowadays applications and Win10 are just too "heavy" for this CPU. Back in the day it worked ok of course.
It's Win 10 which is slow as hell. Win 8.1 is way faster, but I guess 7 and XP are also way faster, not wasting so much ressources using group policies and background services, waiting for upgrades a.s.o.
In 8.1 I can disable the updates, in 10 you can't do that anymore.
On a not so slow Atom Z3740 Win 10 was a nightmare, Win 8.1 was fast and Xubuntu is even faster.
The Win 10 OS changed everything.
And even Chrome in Win 8.1 is slow as hell on an E8400, since they integrated the tool, which periodically searches for malware. I actually can't see much difference between the SSD and a WDC Black HDD opening the browser and booting Win 8.1. It started to get slower after 6+ months, when I had installed much software and the registry is full, getting more and more bloated, registering everything you use all the time.
If you test or use Windows for only 6 months it's not getting so slow.
And the main difference are the sluggish updates. So if you stay offline all the time, Win 10 also has to be way faster I guess.
Meanwhile Linux Mint Xfce is lightning fast on the same E8400 machine using a slow 5400 RPM Laptop HDD, lol.
Even the Firefox Browser is instantly open using Linux, no RAMDisk used, only standard settings.
No antivirus, no unneeded background services, no group policies and updates are done in 2 mins...
So it's the newer Windows versions, which get slow as hell with all the tracking and senseless logging stuff going on. Look at the WinSXS folder, lol. I disabled file history and snapshots, but it's also quite slow compared to Win XP and 7.
The CPU itself is lightning fast until now. We only waste much ressources using Win 8-10 nowadays.
Look at a 486 SX Laptop with maybe 33 MHz and slow HDD, Win 3.x and MS Word 5 is open instantly w/o any waiting time. I'm still impressed.
Word 97/XP/2003 also was fast, 2007+ are slow as hell.
Look at an i7-7700K Desktop with fast SSD, Win 10 and MS Word 2010 needs many seconds to open a simple word processor...because of many big libraries, .NET and such.
The most operation systems and software are getting slower then the PCs getting faster.
Lol, that's basicaly me. I've bought Q6600 and overclocked it to 3.4 Ghz back in 2010, already as budget option. Q6600 was $100 back then, Q9650 was $200, it was too expensive. It was basicaly for same price, as i5 750, which was in generaly about 20% faster, slightly more power efficient, and could be even overclocked to 4.2 Ghz on air, while Q6600 had limit around 3.6 , Q9650 around 4 Ghz.
I didn't have oportunity to change it, I was all the time on budget and didn't game a lot. For browsing and basic work, it is still enough.
But recently I've switched to E5450, it is around $20, and it's basicaly Q9650. Definetly an upgrade from Q6600, if you don't want to change socket 775 platform, from any reason, search for socket 771 to 775 mod,or buy e5450 moded for socket 775 on aliexpress. The only thing, that upset me a little bit is power consumption, I recently bought watt-meter, and that overclocked Q6600 draws too much power. It was not worthy to use over years, I should switch to some 2C/4T i3 CPU, but anyway. It costed me about 200$ - $250 on power electricity over those 10 years, in those time I didnt know, how much overclocked CPU draws power, that differance is huge and it will acumulate over years. If you are building budget computer, that you want to use atleast 3-4 years, ALWAYS look for power consumption too. If you're on socket 775, always take 45 nm CPUs, and don't use socket 1366 overclocked Nehalems like i7-920, they look cheap, but they draw 100W more and 50W more in idle from same performing non-overclocked Haswells and Ivy Bridge (like 1230v2, 1230v3 etc)
Also don't take those cheap e5-1650 140W TPD Xeons like Sandy Bridge on X79 LGA2011 platform, while overclock it. It looks cheap, but look at the power consumption
www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-e5-1620-sandy-bridge-ep-xeon-review-4c8t-36ghz/intel-xeon-e5-1620-power-consumption/
180W stock, almost twice as normal Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge if you overclock it, it will easily draw 250W!!! Instead of 90W (ivy bridge 1230v2) 115W (Sandy Bridge 1230v1) .
Hi Phill great video, I am actually building a retro kind of XP with an E8400 and possibly dual 9600gt.
I have a machine with that set up, works really well.
Around 2008 I had a Q9300 with a stock intel cooler (didn't know how to overclock), 4 GB of OCZ RAM, a PNY Verto GeForce 8600GT, and a GA-EP35C-DS3R for the motherboard; which was somewhat interesting because it supported both DDR2 and DDR3. That PC is still being used by my uncle to this day... he mostly just browses the web and does light photo editing. I don't know how it has survived so long. I also never moved to Vista on my desktop, I used XP for a while and then moved to XP 64-bit which was really just Windows Server 2003 with an XP skin. I waited until Windows 7 to upgrade off of XP 64-bit. A lot of people hated XP 64-bit, but I found it to be quite stable and compatible with everything I wanted to do.
Nice to see you with another video. I always seem to await your next video.
Maybe throw in some videos with your favourite titles and and bit of a comparison of some core 2 duo , core 2 quad , fx6300 and 8 core Xeon or something.
Or perhaps some emulation titles or some decent second hand bargains before tax time rocks up 👍
I had a C2D e8400 based computer back in the day running server 2k8. It was such a slim OS that just got the F out of the way, unlike Vista which fought you every inch. You had to turn on specific services like Audio or the Enhanced User Experience. It was an AMAZING time in computing and makes me yearn to rebuild a system like that again.
That asus P5G41TM LX3 my first motherboard LGA 775 and Prosessor core 2 Duo E7500. (Years 2010)
First thanks for all your videos Phil!
It brings back valuable memories, refreshes my english, gives us more tools to play with and new options like with GPU FastVID, WDM vs. VXD drivers, Level Cache disabler for DOS, dgVoodoo2, Snappy Driver Installer, Easy2Boot, Gotek Floppy Emulator and even ISA Sound Card Initializer...wow, so much good stuff here in the channel!
Thanks also for mentioning RAM timings, although I do know pretty much about hardware, repairing and software I wasn't aware of this timings for many years, thought 1600 MHz is always better than 1333 MHz and similar.
DOSBox ECE is nice, but real hardware is better, ofc.
I still have 2x MPU-401 compatible Miro Sound cards, had to be initialized under Windows 3.x or 9x, before DOS or Linux can use it, but one calls PnP, lol and another one w/o "PnP", very great cards for Tie Fighter and all the General MIDI and Roland sound stuff. A pal also has a Roland daughterboard for ISA.
I have to try the Sound Card Initializer in a Legend QDI Pentium III Board with Pentium 700 100 MHz or 1000B 133 MHz CPU, that Board has ISA and PCI Slots.
Only a very few Pentium 4 and some AMD Athlon boards have ISA, but many Pentium III Boards have. One could go for the 1.4 GHz Tualatin, ofc.
Great that you found out, that ISA some times is even faster than PCI, like the 1st PCIe was slower and not that reliable like the older AGP Pro Port.
It's great to still see people around having fun with computer parts and retro gaming.
I started with a custom Sinclair ZX Spectrum micro computer mod with 3x 800 KB Floppies in a selfmade tower 30 years ago and had maybe 30-40 PCs in my lifetime yet, mostly used parts and it was so much fun back in the days where you could actually see every single new hardware was an improvement.
Do you know, that dgVoodoo2 can not only be used as a 3Dfx glide wrapper or for real Geforce 4 Ti/FX shadows (Splinter Cell),
but also for having maxed out resolution, FSAA and Mipmapping on older game engines? Use 1080p when only 1024x768 was usable from the game engine.
You have to play NFS 6 HP2 with it, it makes a big difference on 1080 maxed out, not for bitmaps, but for rendered stuff.
Yeah I love Far Cry, never got the 64 Bit mod with high distance working, tho.
This Far Cry 1, Crysis I plus Maximum Edition are my all time favs, next to Just Cause 1. It's endless freedom.
Tomb Raider Dagger of Xian is a nice fan remade with awesome graphics for a fan-based game, very professional.
The E8400 was the cheaper brother of the 8600.
You can even "overclock" it using the FSB, the E8400 can run at 4.0-4.2 instead of 3.0 GHz easily and can even be undervolted, using some chipsets like EP35 or EP45.
Btw, CPUGenie and RMClock at least can change normal frequency, throttle and undervoltage in Windows on the fly, without the need of the BIOS.
Undervolting to 1.0 or 0.95 V using normal FSB and clock frequency also makes it run very cool.
I thought about swapping it with an efficient Xeon E5450 if not going for a high performance X model maybe even topping the QX9770, but an i5-2400 is faster and also cheap and retro friendly.
My setup: C2D E8400 3.0 GHz, Gigabyte EP45-DS3LR, 7 gigs of mixed RAM. Tried to reball one defective 2 Gig RAM module, but wasn't lucky.
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS or HDMI sound. Btw. the Soundblaster card can use newer I think EAX 4 drivers than it was shipped with, having support for newer EAX games.
Nvidia GT 1030 2 GB (old version with GDDR5). GPU+CPU passive with big heatpipes, put a 12 cm fan between the HDD cage and the mainboard cooling everything perfectly silent.
My older Asus P4P800SE Pentium 4 board died. That's why I then used a 17 watts ATI 4550 and now 30 watts Nvidia GT 1030 GDDR5, it's very cool, energy efficient and enough for old games.
WDC Black WD1002FAEX (one of the last and fastest 512 B Cluster HDDs from the WinXP era, which had no issues with data loss like the new 4096 B advanced formatted cluster HDDs on WinXP w/o the software fix).
Samsung 850 EVO SSD to make it lightning fast and I think all 2+ Core CPUs are worth running an SSD. Also the price is the same 4 years later, must be good hardware.
Win 8.1 Pro, because some day some games needed Win 7+.
Back in 2008 I still used a Pentium 4 3200 S478 with Win XP, until it died because of the small fan.
Btw., when an HDD gets some little weak/bad sectors, you can use the free HDAT2 tool alone or from UBCD or Hiren's Boot CD/DVD or the HDD Regenerator also does the same.
Yeah I also had issues booting, when some USB drives are hooked up, had to disable them. Especially my Gigabyte Board also seems to have issues booting a normal USB Stick sometimes, then you have to completely pull out the AC plug or turn off the switch for some secs, normal ACPI shutdown is not enough for some reason.
I now use an old rooted Android phone with DriveDroid app to boot the PCs directly from iso files...the cheaper and a bit slower way as using an Iodd 2531 virtual drive emulator with SSD, but quite fast compared to make USB Sticks and older DVD drive speeds. Nearly noone had those 72x CD drives back in the days. I had a very reliable and fast Teac CD-540e, but Flash memory nowadays is way faster.
Easy2Boot on an USB-SSD should be very fast, too, haven't tried it yet.
A similar Gigabyte Board of a mate, which has the QX9770 C2D Extreme wasn't able to boot an original bought Win 10 Home USB Stick, because of PMAP, lol. Had to copy it to another stick.
I prefer Win 8.1 x86 for the newer games to not run into upgrade issues, turned off auto update and only use the monthly winfuture delta updatepacks in the middle of every month.
The Android Web Alert app tells me when there's an update on the sites I need to check, saves some valueable time.
I also used the 2 Sereby AIO runtimes setup at first installation, to make .NET, Java and all the stuff install fast, also saves some time.
I always use GPartEd Live now for formatting, because it's more reliable, also when using Linux computers. Because Windows and even Acronis and Paragon don't see Ext4 partitions, f.e.
GPartEd sees everything and you won't accidentally format a drive with a used partition then. It also can handle MBR/GPT easily.
Strange is, some framerate locked games run with more FPS than 30 or 60 using WINE under Linux or maybe Batocera Plus, which now also has WINE included.
Yeah I think using dgVoodoo should make NFS Underground playable even in 1080 resolution. I tried NFS 6 HP2 and it worked well.
Here's a list of what runs fine using dgVoodoo2 and it's really easy and fast to use. Now every single cheap GPU can play old games at max. res and details, filters on 60+ FPS :)
dege.freeweb.hu/Gallery/DXGamesGallery.html
Oh wait, if you want max. performance, you can disable the c states and power management in the BIOS. Ofc. it eats way more power then.
The Intel Core technology is using more halt states then clocking around.
An E8400 mainly only does 2.0 and 3.0 GHz (multiplier 6 and 9) and much halt states in between, if you don't disable it in the BIOS.
I've seen throttling under Windows and also RecalBox / Batocera, although it runs performance governor. This is because of the c and halt states, not only p states.
You might also disable Hyperthreading and maybe even use Process Lasso Pro to assign everything else to other cores and the game, a web browser, rendering process or 7zip/winrar to only 1 physical core to gain 5-10 % more performance for free. It saves the settings compared to windows task manager and it's easy to tell all other processes to use low priority.
Look for X-Plane micro stuttering on youtube, there's an explanation of frame drops due to priority of processes, but they don't explain the c-states BIOS settings.
He yeah the Midnight racing series and Saints Row have very crappy controls on keyboard/mouse, guess you need a gamepad for those.
Yeah I remember Crysis 1 and Maximum ran quite well also on even older Pentium 4 Prescott 3200 MHz with ATI 9800 SE soft modded to Pro.
It really must be the multi processors and hyper threading which Crysis don't like, but a high clocked 1 core CPU at best performance.
You definitely have to check out disabling c-stated, thermal monitor 2 and use Process Lasso Pro to de-priorize everything else on all other cores but Core 0/1 using low priority, but using only Crysis on 1 core with high priority w/o using HT. Select all but the game and set priority to low and other CPU cores.
Close some processes, which aren't needed. Maybe even restart once before playing if on low RAM.
Maybe even disable all but 1 core in the BIOS, dunno. Crysis 1 is something special.
It's similar to the fact you disable RS232/LPT if not using it, saves some IRQ times.
Maybe even don't use extra PCI cards, dunno, it all needs IRQ times.
I would also put in an extra fan, because the CPU/GPU or even chipset may thermal throttle when it gets hot. That's what MacBooks or CPUs with tiny boxed coolers do all the time.
HDMI vs. VGA: 1st time I saw HDMI I thought what's that...everything is cold blue white instead of more natural yellow/red white.
I think the standard settings for RGB look better than HDMI, tbh and even 1080p on a 32 " TV works well with a short thick good shielded RGB cable with 2 ferrit cores on it, no ghost shadow like with the cheap cables.
There's plenty 40 GB Intel SSDs in cheap 2nd hand industry PCs which work perfectly fine, btw. They also ran long time using WinXP, so TRIM, garbage collection, wear leveling mostly is no issue there.
This nice water pearl effect in Crysis is because of DX 10. I also saw it with DX 9 graphics card using a soft DX 10 mod for it.
Although NFS U2 also has this effect using pure DX 9.
It would be great if you could show an AMD APU or Pentium J4105/J5005 or G4600. Maybe some day you get those somewhere.
Thanks again for all the videos!
This was extremely identical to my setup. I didn't have much money to spare on an upgrade and my system was pretty outdated. So I had been given an e8600 from a friend who upgraded to a core i7. He gave me a really nice motherboard, but it was DoA. So I got one of these cheap asus boards. I put in 2 4gb memory sticks of ddr3 1600(8GB was amazing as I went from 1GB to 2GB before getting this) and overclocked the chip to about 3.6ghz with it. Thanks to the big memory upgrade, I finally decided to run windows 7 full time and finally abandon windows xp. I had a geforce 460 gtx in it and then upgraded to a 680 gtx. I had the same x-fi titanium as I was using razer tiamat 7.1 headset and needed a powerful sound card to drive it and had to still support 7.1 and creatives surround decoding. It sounds the best to me for upscaling games and audio. I now have a high end asus motherboard with amplified audio and a creative ae-5 sound blaster. I find I still prefer the 7.1 virtual decoder of asus and creatives surround for audio that is only 2 channels, which makes games sound better and music and movies. I still have a good pair of razer tiamat 7.1 and asus is able to amplify and make those sound really good with all the features in sonic studio 3, really my razer headset sounds better than ever. I switch back and forth with my beyerdynamics and tiamats depending if i want more bass. Either way I got good use out of that e8600. My only complaint was the terrible placement of the sata controllers and they were slow, so when I got an SSD, it only ran at half speed. I still have that corsair 240gb ssd and it still runs fine. Even if I don't use it in a main system anymore. It was a toss up between upgrading to a quad core or getting a newer system. I could only find q6600 and q8200 for mind you overpriced upgrades and q9550 and above for almost as much as getting a new i5 or i7 at the time, I just decided to get something better and abandon this old and aging platform.
It handled well until I got an fx 8350x. I am glad the days of "most games run on 1 or 2 cores is gone". I was tired of hearing that argument for having more system power. I like to multitask and do many things on my pc. I only wish I had the best versions of each of my computers over the years for nostalgia. However I always just slowly changed everything over time. not generally quite a full new system at once.
Great Vid! Consider doing running these platforms vs. Intel IGPs, that might be an interesting video.
Very timely that you should make this video. I have a spare core 2 duo and want to use it to build a retro XP machine for my younger sister to get her to look at some of her old games. Looks like I will be shopping for a board and various cards. Great info as usual. Cheers.
I perfectly remember that time from 2006 when I changed AMD XP1700 + @ 2GHz to E6400 2 MB, 2.13. On the board with P965 it obtained 3.2GHz at 1.35V. It worked like this for 4 years and on the newer ASUS motherboard with 16 power phases which I bought for C2Q 9550 (working 2 y on 3.85GHz) E6400 obtained a max OC 3600MHz. It was a piece of great silicon. I still have it in a drawer as a souvenir today. Used E6400 can be bought for 0.7-1 $ Used E8400 i bought for fun for 4$.
I used the E8400 back then, also overclocked it, though it didn't clock nearly as high as some people's. Saw all these reports of overclocks above 4 GHz, even 4.5 GHz, while mine was stuck at 3.8 GHz. Still, it was good enough that I didn't feel the need for one of the Q-series Core 2 quad cores. I only upgraded to more cores with the i7 860, didn't think we'd end up being stuck at 4 cores for almost a decade after.
I didn't run Vista though, except initially after it came out. I tried using it for a few months but it was just too slow and would grind to a crawl after a few days without restarting. And after a restart it would takes 10-15 minutes before it would stop absolutely thrashing the hard drive and the computer became useable. And it wasn't some under-specced machine either, an overclocedk dual core with 4 GB of ram and two fast drives in RAID 0. So I switched to Windows XP x64, which I still maintain was vastly superior to 32-bit Windows XP, let alone to the Vista disaster. I used 64-bit Vista on a work laptop for a while and it improved a lot after some updates and service packs, but on my main desktop PC I stuck with x64 XP until Windows 7.
In more recent years I built a high-end Windows XP retro system very similar to Phils', with an E8600 overclocked to 4 GHz, 4 GB of DDR3 (at the specced 1600 MHz, because FSB is overclocked to 400 MHz), a GeForce 950 and X-Fi sound card, all running off a 256 GB SSD. It ran beautifully, great performance but still extremely quiet and low power consumption, so I can highly recommend it. I did end up upgrading my XP config to an X5670 Xeon, also overclocked to 4 GHz, but that was mostly just because I managed to find an X58 motherboard for it for very cheap (like 10€) and I had never used that platform before, so I really wanted to try it out. But I still have that E8600 build set aside and ready to switch back to it at any time :)
i'm a proud owner of an e7500, i will stick with him until the games that i play don't run anymore.
I had a q6600 and it still works, recently I reassembled it with a geforce gt 280 4gb ddr2 and a sound blaster audigy2, overclocked it to 3ghz
Im using Q6600 from 2010 till now. But it was not worth it because of power consumption, had it overclocked to 3.4 Ghz. It drew like 250$ more over 10 years, from stock speed Q9650, which has similiar performace with only 3 Ghz. Definetely not worth as budget option. But back in days, was still expensive to switch to Q9650.
@@warrax111I know is not the best power efficient option but long time ago I haven't other option for the budget, and now how it is not a daily use PC only to play old game in the weekend or concent old hardware is not a big deal, and i have lying around a Phenon II 45w and a hd7750 but for nostalgia / software compatiblility i am reusing the q6600.
@@cybergarri yes, for occasional usage, Q6600 is perfectly fine. I'm glad, you 've found use for this legendary first 4core processor, that was my main for 10 years.
I was searching for it few days back and got your video notification wow nice work dude, on my side it cost $10 only worth for entry level pc
i read through the comments up to the time of posting and admit I missed your link to the store you mentioned. Zoom? Xoom? I did notice one other post that asked for it too. TIA and good solid vid.
www.zoom-platform.com/#home
@@philscomputerlab Thanks again.
Current ROM: 0601
Update ROM: 0503
*HMMMM XD*
yup, he flashed an older bios, lol how can you not notice that?
After I saw that I didn't feel like watching the rest of the video lol
.... something "old" is sometimes even better than this "new" stuff, mnjaah 😀
Did you thought that newer bios was removed by manufacturer because of bugs?
Something like that happen quite often back in the days.
I had an E4300 what an insane chip for overclocking! 1.8Ghz Stock - 3.4Ghz Overclock. Also lookup the BSEL mod for these chips, it was a great way to overclock on a motherboard that didnt support overclocking.
Great processor, made it difficult to decide when to switch to a Quad core. Still using in my store.
Had an AMD Athlon X2 6000+ together with a Geforce 8000GT (later two of them in SLI) back then. Phil .. ever thought of trying Crysis with a high-end P4 rig and the Radeon 3850 AGP?
Crysis doesn't like single core cpu's and p4 has terrible ipc anyways.
Crisis ran pretty well on a P4 Prescott S478 3200 MHz on an Asus P4P800SE mainboard with 2x512 MB Kingston DDR400, a Powercolor ATI 9800 SE 128 MB soft-modded to Pro and even worked with DX 10 soft-mod.
But this mainboard some times costs 80 bucks till nowadays, it's just crazy.
Although I never benchmarked the FPS, but it ran quite good on it.
Oh, btw. this P4 had HT, but I think the games run 5 % faster or with fewer micro lags w/o HT enabled. It's similar to X-Plane 10/11.
@Martin M It used to max both of the cores on my c2d, nearly maxed 3 on my 750 and 3570k (still ran at under 40fps in some areas at 4.4ghz).
Haven't seen how it does on my 3700x because it isn't launching in windows 10 and I haven't felt like trying to fix it.
Even the c2d should have twice the ipc though, p4 is probably beyond terrible at it.
I jumped on the Core2Duo in 2006. Overclocked an E6600 from 2.4GHz to 3.4GHz. No more lag from running windows processes while gaming! Right then I knew multicore was the future!
That box was insane for 2006. Ran Vista when it launched. increased to 8GB RAM. I had a LAN party in a box. Gigabit for filesharing patches and other... questionable... things... Enough power to run the dedicated servers for D3/HL2/COD4 and also fire up the game client and join my own match! Literally jaw dropping considering prior to this we were all running P4s or Althons that chugged and stuttered if you forgot to disable file sharing and someone pulled a file off your box.
Fastest Intel extreme edition was "only" 3.0GHz and was priced at whopping $1000!
i am still on this 12yrs old E8400. the mobo, ram gfx all retired, but this processor still sitting in its chair.
I used (in 2008) Core 2 Duo E8400 Overclocked to 4GHz and 9800GTX + with 1GB VRAM and 4GB DDR2. A really great set for that time.
I remember having an E8500 few years ago and it was a decent CPU for those things I did. When playing AC3 with a 9500GT, it actually runs slightly faster than with a Q6600 to my surprise.
those core 2 quads were 2 core 2 duo dies slapped together on a single pcb. they talked to each other via the NB chipset hence latency issues.
Interesting Akhilesh...that explains everything with the combined 2x C2D.
Plus, most of the processes/games back in the days only used a few cores, if not only one.
The E8500 also has a higher clock and FSB as Q6600 (3.16 GHz 1333 MHz FSB 6 MB shared Cache vs. 2.4 GHz 1066 MHz FSB 8 MB shared Cache).
So the Cache per Core is 3 vs 2 MB also, it makes a difference.
The FSB makes a big difference. One can overclock a C2D CPU by 30 % of its base clock by using a higher FSB speed. and 1333 MHz FSB is 25 % faster than 1066 MHz base FSB.
So the Q6600 from Q1/2007 most of the time isn't faster than each newer E8xxx CPUs from Q1/2008. They put in more Cache later.
Only when using apps which can handle multicore or using many apps at the same time.
userbenchmark site says the median of many tested Q6600 Quadcores are around 8 % faster only in benchmark conditions, not 100 % faster than the median of many tested E6600 Dualcores.
And think about the difference in TDP, 65 vs 95 W TDP...it can't be twice as fast, but the 130 W TDP Extreme CPUs are way faster, but an i5-2400 is even faster.
@@sebastianebert4295 exactly mate. It's wonderful how these things are designed. Food for thought xD.
@@sebastianebert4295 yes, even i3-3260 is faster than non-overclocked Q9650. But more power efficient. Now, it's always better option to go for Ivy Bridge chipset motherboard (Z77 B75) and take used Xeon like e3-1220 or even i3 2C/4T CPU. Because of power efficiency, and also USB 3.0. socket 775 doesnt have sense now
Great video, as usual! I'd really love to see a video about your collection, Phil. Something like Retrohardware does in his channel. I'm pretty sure you have a incredible collection, too! Cheers from Argentina!
In 2008 I still had an Athlon XP 2500+ with a Geforce FX 5200 and 2GB of DDR400 RAM with Windows XP. 500GB IDE HDD
2008? I was running a Phenom x4 9850+, Biostar TF8200 A2+ motherboard, 4GB ram, Radeon x1900xt most of the year, then a Radeon 4850 in December, 300GB HDD, on an antec 350W? PSU, and a cheap no name case from 2003. My Aunt actually still has that Phenom 9850+ and Biostar TF8200 A2+, now with 8GB ram, R7 240, 240 GB Samsung 840 Evo SSD, and its working great as an office pc running Windows 10. Its amazing how much tech has slowed down, where a 12+ year old motherboard and CPU are still more than capable of handling all sorts of modern tasks, honestly even low end gaming so long as the game doesn't need any instructions that the Phenom doesn't have.
Thanks for the info on using ssd in xp. You can use steam in xp too. Just install the latest version and let it update, then delete the folder. Download steam build 26-nov 2018 (not newer) and copy it to the location where steam was installed. Naturally do not update steam ever from there.
In retrospect I think the dual core was the better choice at that time (cost/performance wise).
It took many years for quad cores to become relevant in most games. When it finally happened that quad cores became a must in most games, the speed of an old old Intel quad core CPU was already on the verge of too slow. If you kept the hardware for your eventual retro-PC then a dual core is for the period specific games a good choice as well. I like the old Intel quad cores though.
Quote: "fastest that I have"
I think 960 is the fastest XP card there is, or I don't remember correctly ?
My 2nd PC is E5450 (Q9650) with 8 gigs of DDR2 and GTX760 (used GTX970 on Win8.1 at some point) still holds good.
Struggles with some online games (like ARK, Rust, etc...) but simple "shot em up" games it can handle very good, even modern ones.
@@MaoTao or even TITAN X (Maxwell based one with modded drivers) and this would be the fastest gpu for XP along with AMD's Radeon HD 7990.
The micro lag in online games are mostly long server pings. I played STO for a long time, until someone said there's other servers and bam, it ran so fast since then.
C2D E8400 with ATI 4550 and later GT 1030 GDDR5 and after changing servers I thought I have a totally new PC, lol.
To be honest everything struggles with ARK. It's just a god awful game, technically. I'm still angry that something so badly made got so popular.
@Dr ROLFCOPTER! Can you share a link with more information to prove your claim?
As far as I can find online is that Radeon R9 295X2 has drivers for Windows Vista and up.
Please tell me what modded drivers would install R9 295X2 on a Windows XP.
Radeon HD7970 Ghz edition is the fastest officially supported single gpu card that works in Windows XP.
The fastest dualcore is E8700 but unique and rare
Intel pentium D extreme edition 965 is still faster at 3.733Ghz (in terms of raw clockspeed) but it was a hot chip. And IPC was bad.
Thinking this was never released here for retail while it exists as a xeon only still the xeon x5270 3.5 ghz.
(Kind of want too get one just too see how far it would overclock on my p45 motherboard w ddr2 1066 mhz ram.) there are patches & mods too run socket 771 xeons after all in 775 motherboards.
relaxing the ram timings makes a big difference
The little Dell I use in my hobby room has an E8600! Not used for gaming though, it's just for music/video streaming and quick Internet look-ups when I'm working in there. And hey, it played this video at 1080p/60! It runs Win10 just fine on an SSD w/ 8GB of DDR3.
If you plan on revisiting this cpu I would strongly recommend overclocking it. Both the e8500 and e8600 were legendary for being massive overclockers, easily hitting 4.5ghz with air cooling and offering substantial performance improvements from that, letting them run games that came out much later without any trouble.
Yea I'm just not that much into overclocking, but for sure, at 4.5 GHz and with a higher FSB you will see heaps better performance :)
I really like the Min, avg, Max graphs. They make the differences very visually obvious.
Yea it's one of the few games that measures those stats!