This Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Should NEVER be UNBANNED - Banhammer
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- On Banhammer we discuss banned cards with the Cardmarket Yugioh team, and whether they should be banned or if they can roam free in people's decks again!
Can Last Turn ever come back, or is it a total disaster waiting to happen?
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!Opinions expressed in this video are those of the author/video creator and not necessarily Cardmarket.
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You're getting reported for posting a link to deadly weaponry.
I was hoping that paper you had was the 20 page ruling document that the head judges made on Last Turn. Yes, that is a thing.
My favourite interaction with Last Turn is with effects like on The Wicked Avatar. It's a very hard to summon monster but it always has atk equal to the highest other atk on the field + 100. Like a kid saying "I have infinity+1", this is just, "whatever you search out, my thing will be bigger" which is hilarious to me.
Also worth mentioning, Last Turn was banned before the extra deck was really a thing. In today's game, there are very few main deck monsters that beat over extra deck boss monsters normally and quite a number of extra deck monsters that would just always win or at least draw within a Last Turn (via their effects or just pure stats). Turn 0, do normal Yugioh stuff, set Wall + Last Turn, opponent is dead in their draw phase... fun!
I love these videos because they're basically a more structured version of my group of friends talking about cardgames.
Not only is it bad for the game but also for the judges. Similar to pole position, last turn in today's metagame could cause ruling nightnares that konami has since tried to mitigate
im surprised you can even use it. jowgan should kind of be like forbidden droplet vs dimension shifter. shifter banishes and droplet requires you to send stuff to the grave so you cant droplet. if you have jowgan and last turn by technicality you shouldnt be able to activate it
@@doctor9551 droplet must send to gy for *cost* shifter prevents you from paying that cost and if you can't pay cost you cannot attempt to use droplet
The special summon of last turn is not a cost or mandatory effect of last turn so it would work under jowgen similar to how foolish works under shifter
Of course this depends on how you interpret last turn... practically speaking at the point of activation there is no way for you to know if your opponent has a legal target in their deck so precedent says you should be able to activate it (regardless of if your opponent has targets) and last turn will simply resolve as fully as possible
Of course ALL of the ruling issues with it could be solved by adding an "and if you do" conjunction after "your opponent special summons 1 monster from their deck in attack position"
@@mattr791 In terms of adding to Last Turn to keep the spirit of the card, it seems like it could be possible to add a restriction like, "Until the End Phase of this turn, negate the activation and effects of all cards except Last Turn." At that point, cards like Jowgen would no longer be able to stop your opponent from Special Summoning and cards that cannot normally be destroyed by battle now can be.
I think my favorite hypothetical would be "what happened if I had more than one creature at the resolution of Last Turn because of Raidraptor Ultimate Falcon?"
@@doctor9551 If I remember rightly, last turn decks in traditional format just make Megaclops.
You don't need Jowgan, your opponent won't have a monster in their deck with over 4000 atk (and even if they do, they can only beat over megaclops with xyzs).
In a modern competitive setting, it makes complete sense to close the door to Last Turn but I will say that in the early days of Yu-gi-oh, when everyone who wanted to be legitimately competitive was just running some iteration of beat down/control, it was kind of the funnest thing in the world to show up with a Last Turn deck and incite minor riots. As someone who could never afford to play within the meta it was a hilarious board flip to pull off
I used last turn in some of the old video games to grind, since the AI had no concept of how to play around an obvious game plan, and you could eventually search last turn through cat of ill omen even if it was a bit slow. jowgen or cyber stein into last warrior for the win condition made it really consistent against an opponent that doesn't understand what is going on.
Do Electrumite just because I want to see Adam and Carl to fumble around pendulum mechanics.
Aint no way she coming off the BL. Konami has made a point of hating Pend
Last turn would also be a nightmare because outside of all the jank with Jowgen and whatnot, even in its basic form, it brings back 2006 'big monster best monster' mindset that has since left the game for the most part, and would gatekeep any deck from being meta that doesn't run a big monster in the main deck like traptrix, runick, etc. etc. Or everyone would just main deck kaijus or something.
If nothing else, a nice follow-through to this card is surely the inevitable Victory Dragon video. With possibly also a mention that it's so noteworthy within its type because it's "merely" banned whereas every other one is Illegal.
Imagine Last Turn inside a Dinomorphia deck. Insanity.
If Konami were to ever consider unbanning Last Turn, they'd need to errata it first. Not just to make it less feels bad, but because the wording is a mess for rulings. Updating the text could actually close some of the loopholes that got it banned in the first place.
It's actually disputed if you are actually able to use last turn with a card like jowgen the spiritualist on the field.
For this card to come back:
-The effects of all cards on the field/graveyards/banished must be negated while Last Turn is resolving
-The card only allows a Duel to be won. If a winner was not decided after resolution, then cards sent to the graveyard by this effect are returned to the field/hand and play continues normally.
This stops cheesing a win via stuff like Jowgen, and if Last Turn fails to win you the duel, you gave your opponent a free monster and full knowledge of your hand.
The second clause would make it see play in all decks as you could see the opponents hand and facedowns then
@@jacob3988 This. I think instead, a possible restriction is to have the card's controller skip their next turn. That makes it an extremely high risk/high reward card since playing it and failing to end the game practically guarantees your opponent is free to set up and finish you off next turn, barring possible GY effects.
The omninegate is also vital to the card's playability. Stripping away battle destruction protection and all other possible card effects that could interrupt Last Turn's function is the only way to ensure it works as intended.
So what happens when Raidraptor Ultimate Falcon is on the field when Last Turn gets flipped up?
@@vxicepickxv I'm unsure if there's an existing effect in the game that overrules inherent protections like Falcon's, but eliminating that as an issue would be as simple as including it in the omninegate clause. Ideally you want the card wording to be written such that only the initial activation of the card is able to be disrupted.
@@vxicepickxv Something like this: "This card can only be activated during your opponent's turn when your Life Points are 1000 or less. Until the End Phase, negate the activation and effects of all cards except 'Last Turn,' *including cards that would otherwise be unaffected by this card's effect.* Select 1 monster on your side of the field and send all other cards on the field and in their respective owner's hands to their respective Graveyards. After that, your opponent selects and Special Summons 1 monster from their Deck in face-up Attack Position and attacks your selected monster. (Any Battle Damage from this battle is treated as 0.) The player whose monster remains alone on the field at the End Phase of this turn wins the Duel. In any other case, skip your next turn."
I like to see Mirage of Nightmare. At first it seems fair, but it is easy to exploit. The anime showed how to exploit it to plus.
Im surprised there was no mention of the 17 page rulings document actually trying to explain how the card works in niche scenarios.
Last Turn is a ruling nightmare
I will note you got some stuff incorrect. Last turn creates a special battle phase that occurs after their is no chain links remaining. if the battle phase is skipped for some reason(say Thunder of Ruler is chained) then you don't battle. You then return to whatever the phase was(note that this is an entirely new phase, despite being a copy of whatever the phase was before)
The Jowgen being able to be chosen is hilarious from a ruling standpoint. normally you must be able to resolve all parts of a card to activate it. But Jowgen doesn't let your opponent special summon so the part about being able to special summon a monster can't be resolved. UDE's workaround is that Last Turn's effect does not special summon a monster as it resolves. instead it is a lingering effect for some reason.
I like how she just sits there and is never given a chance to speak
The only way I somewhat see this card returning without a ruling nightmare would be:
A) make it so you can only activate this at the star of the Battle Phase
B) the monster summoned cannot activate effects
C) both players summon at the same time
And STILL after all the changes this creates more problems because bouncing effects. I would abuse the crap outta this with Dinomorbs if this was legal, this bloody thing flat out plays outside the rules of the game so it cant return but is one of the coolest cases to study in terms of ruling.
or D) add a caveat that if your opponent can not special summon from this effect the person who played last turn loses
When you have to make a 14 page document explaining how to resolve last turn, it will forever be a ruling nightmare
Said 14 page doc btw - docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1r-FGgDW2yP1Te4WEDdfux6usf5AoSDGLQdrHErDlPsk
Or have it negate the effects of everything sent and summoned. It's also banishes EVERYTHING else face down and it just, sends to get around destruction as well as like... The dragon revival style "banish this instead" cards
This card could use some heavy errata hammering before coming back. If it comes back. Obviously, monster floodgates are an issue. Others include monsters that continuously have the highest ATK, battle protection, trap immunity and simply having a high ATK main deck monster nowadays. An effect like this needs future proofing, and perhaps some reminder text warning against illegal plays with this.
"This feels disgustingly bad" 6:18
Waiting for this quote to be repeated when Victory Dragon gets its video.
I would do update ”If Your card stop ur opponent to Summon u Lose the duell ” or both players can only pick normal monsters, and this card cannot be in the side deck
Little Swordsman of Aile, Dark Sage, Last Will, The Cheerful Coffin, Patrician of Darkness, The Fiend Megacyber, Kotodama
I wanna see a segment on Fishborg Blaster. That card is wild
Last Turn can become legal, all it needs is a ruling that states "all parts of the card must be able to be resolved before you can activate the card"
That way if your opponent can't special summon then you can't activate Last Turn as it can't resolve the whole effect.
If there is indestructible monsters on the field it can't be activated since it can't resolve properly since it requires an empty board.
Tada, fixed all the ruling knightmare(pun intended) and no need to errata the card, just a ruling clarifying all parts must be able to resolve for the effect to go off.
I love Carl's hairstyle, looks cool and fluffy
Last Turn can never be unbanned not only because its abusable for cheap wins/draws, but its a ruling nightmare. The card had a 14 page document about its ruling when it was legal (2006), imagine the amount of new added rulings that would have to be added for today's Yu-Gi-Oh!. Every Judge will be required to know how Last Turn interacts with every new card& read that now 30+ page document on this card. No thanks leave it where it is & never release it for everyone's sanity.
One video I'd like to see which you've probably done but eh, can't hurt to do again is.
"Two magic players play Yugioh" and you can have your experts pick out some fun simple rogue picks (Nothing too meta.. It'd get confusing quick).
And "Two Yugioh players play Magic". Same deal.
And a way to choose the deck could just be to have some examples from a few different archetypes and the player picks one, then they'd build a deck of that archetype with their expert.
I love this idea. I think I’ve seen you guys do this in the magic Channel too, but I don’t think I’ve seen one in a while. Do you guys plan to do this with magic cards also?
This card works best with another banned card: Magical Scientist. You normal summon or One for One Magical Scientist, pay 1000 to special summon Millennium-Eyes Restrict to prevent opponent from Ash-Blossomming you, then pay 4000 to get 4 level 4 monsters, XYZ summon Primathmech Alembertian and search for Last Turn, then pay 2000 to get another 2 level 4 monsters, XYZ summon Gallant Granite and search for Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo. Now you have 4 monsters with different names on the field (Magical Scientist, Restrict, Alembertian and Granite), so you can use them as materials to link summon Saryuja Skull Dread and special summon Fossil Dyna from your hand to prevent your opponent from special summoning monsters. Because you paid 7000 life in the process, you should have exactly 1000 life, which fulfills Last Turn's activation requirement.
I would love to see the shocked reaction to what the hell shockmaster does
surely summoning monsters from the deck and forcing them attacking but not having a battle phase will cause absolutely no ruling nightmares (sarcasm)
I think you could bring this card back but youd need an insane errata and "problem solving card text" for it to not be a rulings nightmare like the current version is
The problem here is that the card needs a complete top to bottom rerwite for that to happen and at that point it wouldn't be Last Turn anymore.
Now releasing a retrained version of this card would be interesting, but I don't think Konami will willingly remind everyone of one the biggest blunders in card design they've made in the history of this game.
@@oldmantony3188 it really wouldn't be that difficult to errata
If lp > 1000 target 1 monster; each player sends all other cards on field and in their hands to gy, then opponent special summons 1 monster from their deck in atk, and if they do, immediately proceed to bp and perform battle between those 2 monsters, then the player who controls the lone monster during ep wins the duel otherwise the duel ends in a draw.
Still poorly designed garbage and will pretty much always end in a draw but it would work properly
@@mattr791 That wouldn't get the card off the banlist tho. It's just the current effect rerwitten with psct. For it to come off the effect would have to be changed a lot and that's what I mean by just male a new card at that point.
@@oldmantony3188 why wouldn't it come off? Card is time seal level unplayable
Also I did change the effect a lot now last turn would work properly vs towers and would no longer work with jowgen/statue locks which tbf really doesn't matter
@@mattr791 Ok so, Last Turn was never good, that's not why it's on the banlist. It's on the banlist bc it's so poorly designed that pretty much every single activation of this card in history has been a rulings nightmare. This may as well read "when you activate this card, call a judge".
Also you say you changed the card a lot, but you really didn't at all. The worda are different, I'll give you that but, I fail to see how this will stop a towers, or a floodgate (which by itself has been a topic if somethong like Jowgen would actually work with Last Turn). More than that what abput shit that floats like you know 90% of modern monsters, or monsters with removal effects that activate in the grave. Or what about the shit that was sent from field and hand to grave which most likely floats. Yeah this is why Last Turn is banned.
Imagine this interacting with Arrival Cyberse @ignister or other unaffected cards. Attack selected monster. With which one?
You could possibly errata it to say negate all the effects of monsters summoned, and have it unable to be ignored to get around stuff like Altergeist and immune stuff
Cards to suggest talking about are knightmares goblin and mermaid together. I would love to hear that discussion if there is one to be had.
a video on knightmare goblin would be cool
With a proper errata, Last Turn would probably be fine.
Add a clause that it can only be activated during the battle phase, so that gets rid of the "special battle phase" nonsense.
Create a ruling that it can't be activated if your opponent can't special summon.
Negate the effects of the monsters that battle, so that nothing can't be destroyed.
And then lower the life point requirement to 500. That makes it much harder to activate, since most things that pay huge amounts of life usually pay in multiples of 1000.
If you can only activate it in the bottle phase you don't have to nerf it (unless necessary to prevent rulings headaches).
If someone is obviously digging their entire deck for a trap card, you pop that trap card ASAP. It would not stay on the field until the battle phase.
Raidraptor Ultimate Falcon just chills because it's still a card effect.
@@vxicepickxv ultimate falcon can still be destroyed by battle.
It's such a janky card that I don't think it would really see much meta play, but it's such a damn rulings nightmare that it's better off just left banned.
This card is a nightmare, how could they approve this. Anyway my favorite interaction with this card is using Interplanetary Invader "A" to steal the other monster.
What if you errata the card (or come up with a new card) in order to make it so that you cannot cheese out a draw or missuse it?
Like instead of choosing a monster that is on the field, just send all monsters currently on the field to the graveyard (via an effect that forces the player to do that just to circumvent unaffected monsters), then chose one monster from hand deck or grave and summon it but negate it's effects?
I mean, the main problem wouldn't be solved that you have a win con that shouldn't be a win con. And maybe that way it's even easier to close games that you really shouldn't have any business winning. But on the other hand we have Kashtira that also doesn't let you play the game and is even more consistant than Dark World's hand loop.
If the card would be errated it most certainly would make it so you couldn't target an extra deck monster, it cannot end in a draw, and it would make sure both players can summon monsters to actually conclude the battle.
The card doesn't have enough real estate to accommodate the text for an errata.
The special summoning of monsters can basically be circumvented by using tokens that gains attack power based on a monster card, it's just a matter of preventing other effects from interfering with the actual battle
Have they done this with grass is greener? That would be a good one in my opinion.
i read the *unofficial* psct last turn google doc on a whim last night so im sure im in for it
more last turn considerations:
it was never given a PSCT printing because it was banned in 2006, so anyone attempting to resolve this card without a yugioh phd is probably gonna fuck it up.
also there's so many considerations and complications to the game that existed then that circumvent the idea behind last turn and they've only multiplied now in the last 17 years
there's special summon floodgates, montster that float into other monsters, monsters that summon monsters on summon, monsters that can't be destroyed by battle, monsters that can't be targeted for battle, monsters that are unaffected by other card effects (like the effects of Last Turn,) and monsters with quick effects you could activate after your opponent summons but before the "special battle," your opponent could have 0 monsters in deck
even trying to make an errata of last turn that captures the spirit of the card and addresses basically every stupid edge case is a herculean effort. it's a mistake that will probably stay on the banlist forever and will just be the tiniest thorn in the side of anyone trying to make a YGO sim
Why can't people just activate cards that negate the activation and the effect of the trap card Last turn and destroy it. Cards like Seven tools of the Bandit and so on.
You can, but the fact that a card can be negated isn't usually a good argument for why it should be legal. Especially since very few Trap negates can be activated at the time Last Turn would typically be used, which is doing a Turn 1 setup and then flipping it in the opponent's Draw Phase. The only commonly played one is Red Reboot, which is banned as well.
Hilariously though, since it Special Summons from the Deck, there is one hard counter to Last Turn that now exists: Ash Blossom. XD
What the above said, plus since 15 years ago you don't have to worry about traps 99% of the time, and if you need a card which can negate things, you'll never go for one which can only stop traps, you'll play something like solemn judgment ✌️
I'd love this card in Dinomorphia.
Something that has me confused (shocker!) Is if cards that get sent to the graveyard activate effects related to being there. Of course there probably weren't enough floating effect cards to warrant noting.
Weirdly, theres some OCG precedent and apparently there's a pause before the special battle phase allowing stuff to trigger. Hell if I know why it works like that.
Leoni npc mode today
The judges would strike if they unbanned it
Seems like a good candidate for a functional reprint in the future perhaps (I don't play Yugi Oh(
Last Turn is like Fiber Jar and Self Destruct Button. Terrible cards that would never see any kind of serious play, but can stay banned because they're annoying as fuck.
I doubt last turn is good anymore but its just not worth the rulings headaches that it creates with every card released since its banning. Also bless the soul of whoever would have to PSCT this card.
I love Banhammer. Would it be possible to do a Magic: the Gathering version on the other channel?
insert the Michael Scott "NO GOD NO GOD PLEASE NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
Awesome idk if you saw my comment but you picked my card from a cpl weeks ago
Whoo
As someone who played with this card when it was legal the only way for it to come back is if they errataed the card to say the summoning from the opponent is mandatory or the effect fizzles. Also they would need to remove the tie. Trust me when this card is legal there is so many otks/ftks can’t tell which one it is, it’s probably the single most busted card in the game for forcing loses.
So if they don't summon, you get a free hand and board wipe beside the one monster you played
@@jacob3988 no I mean if the card fizzles it gets no effect. That’s the only way I could see it working. But it’s still a huge no with all the quick popping effects, monsters that can’t be destroyed and towers style monsters.
Unfortunately even with that it would have all the weird ruling issues it already has like mandatory graveyard effects.
I feel like it would need to have an effect along the lines of "Once this effect starts all card effects are negated no matter where they are and effects cannot be activated except for Last Turns effect" although written in a way that would work better because I would be awful at making YGO cards.
Last Turn in dinomorphia deck 🤯
With dinomorphia being able to reach the threshold so easily I don't think this should come back. Dinomorphia could easily tech in a one of jowgen. Trap trick also makes this card really easy to get to
it could be unbanned if it gets an errata which would prevent the activation of effects that would be activated in the gy after this card's resolve and the 2 battling monsters would have their effects negated.
Honestly, last turn could come back and it wouldn't matter, it's a silly 3 card FTK combo and the chance of it randomly being flipped to cause a draw in a normal duel is pretty unlikely. Not that it would be a positive development for the game or anything, but it would be fine.
where did leoni got her dandelion tshirt please 😭😭
Last turn should include the requirement of must be capable of special summoning under any and all conditions otherwise this effect cannot activate nor resolve. Also should not win lose or draw with this card cuz this card basically wins anyways
You could unban last turn right now and it would see 0 serious play. its only playable as a deep draw pile and at that point there are soooooo many better ftks you can play
Even as a "tool" to force draws its not 2009 anymore... if you can combo off to resolve last turn you could just make accesscode and *win* the game instead
Obviously last turn should stay banned for legacy and lore reasons but its not a good card and really doesn't have a use case anymore
Edit i forgor dinomorphia exists but tbh if morphia resolved frenzy and has a non engine trap they're winning anyways
Last turn should also stay banned bc it would be a ruling nightmare
Fiber Jar is in the same boat imo
Or a card like Blackwing Full Armour Master who is unaffected by card effects that would be rigged 😅😂
It would still be sent to the grave. Last Turn doesn't affect it, but the player
@Jacob that's not what I read. It says "select one monster on your side of the field, then send all other cards on the field and each other's hands to the graveyard." That's still a card effect.
Do Heavy Storm next
away to make this card actually work with out breaking the game
you can only summon none effect monsters with it
I suppose if you were limited to Normal monsters and your opponent was not, there might be a chance, unless you were using some shenanigans like The Ultimate Creature of Destruction.
If Last Turn was unbanned, some douchebad will use it like self destruct button to force draws at events, ruin potential tops and be an overall horrible person. Keep it banned forever.
Errata it to use normal monsters... Boon insta draw with bewd
last turn could be saved by making an errata that would let both players summon a monster from their deck not just the opponent
This card is the ultimate rulings nightmare because it invents game states that don't exist anywhere else in the game 😂
Îsnt there an easy fix to that card?
just say the minion that wins the battle wins the game.
so if i cant summon we dont fight so i dont loose.
+ a minion that cant be destroyed in battle still looses the battle to like an blue eyes so u also cant cheese it.
+ u can also add text taht says u can allways special summon any minion out of your deck/hand no matter what effects needed to summon it or wants to negate or block the summon
The easy fix is to leave it on the banlist forever.
Yagween the spiritualist.
Can you do Majespecter Unicorn. God only knows why it has been banned for all these years.
It was banned because PePe was a deck.
@@vxicepickxv yeah, and tcg is deathly afraid of pendulums. Not like the old master rule exists still. The only “problem” with unicorn is bouncing back kaijus to your hand, but other cards do the same thing
dinomorphia needs somes buffs
They should unban it but they should make a monster that says If this monster is special summon while your opponent used last turn this turn you win the game so you would win the game before the battle of the last turn occurred. So every side deck would have Last turn and that monster to negate last turn
I'm a simple man, I see banhammer and I click
Do Sixth Sense...
any cards that needs a 10 page google doc to try and understand it doesn't need to be in the game
For rules problems absolutely no
I want last turn back just to see what crazy stupidity people would cook up
The first time the female contributor was allowed to speak without interruption was 5 mins into the video...
do that grass looks greener please
To make Last turn acceptable you would likely have to change the effects so that any possible draw condition becomes a loss and change the activation condition to be something like "must be at least 8(just an arbitrarily high number here, current game state could very well make this effectively useless with 4 or 5 instead) turns into the duel" to prevent the cheesing unsporting uses it could do currently.
More Ban Hammer!
You cannot put "Last turn" and "safe to unban" in the same sentence. You just cannot XD
i played this crap with waboku in the playground when i knew i was gonna lose. i was such a little shit.
Not to knock the host but you can’t just tell them the reason it’s banned outright. Like the crux of why it’s banned is the rulings nightmares it ensues
Neat!
bring back Electrumite
curious question
does MTG manages ban lists or that is a ygo exclusive??
Yeah, many banlists, for each individual format. And formats themselves are banlists in a way - "no cards released before X year unless they've been reprinted in a format legal set since then"
@@LemureLemure so not quite exactly as ygo but it exists
Wizards of the Coast manages most of the banlists, and the one restricted list.
The one exception is the Commander banlist, which is managed by a committee.
@@vxicepickxv oh i see
Nah, Last Turn is fine now. If you’re ever in the position to play last turn, then your opponent 9/10 times has a negate on the field. They’ll just negate it.
She never has anything to add mans hard stuck bronze in Master duel
He looks like markiplier. 😆 🤣 😂 😹 sorry just had to mention it
KAISER COLLOSEUM
Algorithm pog
interesting banned cards.
Big brain is just to play tcg traditional
I really like Adam... But man... Give Leoni a chance to talk dude 😂 she really has to stay there silently and wait for her turn to get out a sentence or two. I know Adam knows a lot, but then there is no reason for her to be there 😅
EDIT: ok I commented a tad bit to early, she gets her moments. But it's still not enough. No offense tho, just a constructive criticism. If I'm wrong, I am sorry 👍
i am shocked to learn that this hideous card exists. you're literally not playing yugioh anymore. this card has no purpose other than pseudo ftk and forcing draws with minimal interaction. also it sends cards to grave so like there's will be some triggers and probably a stupid amount of cheese and it will never be healthy ever.
Also where's the god damn comprehensive rulebook konami?