Great video! QUICK TIP: Group your plugins/effects together and hover over the Group's Device Title Bar to get the sum of all latencies, starring Ben Affleck. And remember, plugins/effects, even if turned OFF, add latency. Here's a question: is the TOTAL delay compensation of an entire project equal to the track with the longest latency?
While setting up a live looping set, I was having a timing difference between my monitor feed and my looped audio. After turning OFF delay compensation this rhythm problem went away. Just something to keep in mind if you’re struggling with this. I am mainly using sampler instruments and midi and audio effects on the tracks.
yea, in Livesets with low-latency VST plugins and generally low latency, activating delay compensation ADDS latency, isn't that funny, haha. For a real liveset-setup, VSTs from izotope are generally a no-go. They add severe latency to the whole project. Not worth it.
Great video! Any idea as to why they didn't introduce a video delay compensation too? It was present in Live 9. I just went back and checked and the metering issue was non existent (no matter how many plugins, delay compensation or how much CPU usage). Back then the video was delayed exactly as much as the audio. I moved to Studio One years ago when 10 came out and was willing to give 11 a try and installed the trial, but this metering issue makes the daw useless for mixing and for a big part of production... I can't talk about other daws, but Live 9 didn't have the problem, Studio One doesn't have this problem, so it's ridiculous that 2 daws later they are messing such a fundamental thing up. I mean they are asking 700+ dollars for this daw, come on guys, it's basic common sense. I wonder what they do all day at the office🤣 Luckily I didn't pay for it yet, otherwise I'd ask my money back. Gonna send a ticket to the support anayways, just in case they didn't notice the issueeven though it would be weird. I'd be ashamed if I were Ableton. A professional top notch Daw that comes for such a high price can't have such a basic issue. Unbelievable.
I'm so glad I swapped to Bitwig. It's far superior even tho I do miss a few smaller things. The performance is mind blowing as well! It's like comparing a bicycle with a Tesla.
BUT u cant turn it off in Bitwig. So when you have high delay in bitwig you literally can't play something on keyboard. Seems like fucking devs doesnt have a damn brain. I just going to use free reaper then..
@@user-oi5hs8wt2oYou're wrong. If you want to play on keyboard or guitar live without latency just don't use plugins that cause this latency... Try to open any simple VST synth and put Pro-Q in Linear Phase Max. After this Its impossible to play live in any DAW. In Bitwig you can deactivate plugins that cause this latency. Its not the same like switch on/of in Ableton. Delay compensation is not what gives you 0 latency. Delay compensation is what makes you audio to be snaped to the grid. Just play any loop, then add something like LFOtool or Volumeshaper and render result. Then try to put Pro-Q Linear Phase Max before LFOtool and render again. You will be out of grid/sync in Ableton. There is no such problem in Bitwig. This is what Ableton delay compensation problem is.
@@VladArtsense No in proper daws you have to choose enable or disable pdc. Easy to say just do that or do that. If i pay shitload of money for license and didn't get such BASIC feature. If you have a gigantic project with plugins like soothe on channels that gives a lot of latency and you should go find them all, deactivate, play some notes, activate then again and again? lol what a nonsence. its just another compromise
It's had this problem for years. I noticed it years ago when using a plugin chain which had plugins running with different internal sampling rates (some oversampling etc). The delay compensation was not acurate across all the tracks playing. This is not good for solid bass in a mix.
could you do one on "reduce latency when monitoring" and recording with monitoring OFF and monitoring AUTO and show the differences? i think that one would be very interesting, specially when sending MIDI from ableton to a device and then recording it back or using external efx pedals ( using external instrument / efx can help sometimes with that kind of latency )
No difference in version 12, I can not believe that Live's compensation is still this bad vs all other DAWs. There are only 2 major DAWs that have poor PDC like this, and that's Live and Reason. I would have switched to Ableton full time a decade back if they fixed this as I enjoy the workflow. I am a heavy UAD plugin user, all my EQ's and dynamics are done with UAD, therefore I have various latencies all over the place, so you can imagine what kind of fresh nightmare Live is for me. I actually don't think Ableton get it - and I also think that's why Bitwig made such a point of doing this to perfection (frustrated ex Ableton staff started Bitwig). But it's why I stick to Pro Tools and Nuendo myself, as the compensation is beautiful, for sidechains, sends, the visual playhead, all tempo based effects, everything just works. The other DAWs calculate the delay when you press playback before the playhead starts moving, and voila. Much of Ableton's problems will go away if they simply did this, and they already have the base code to do this in there otherwise PDC wouldn't work at all to begin with, but they just don't want to add the feature. It's interesting when the devs of every other major DAW in existence understand the need for this, and implemented it properly many years ago at that. I can almost forgive Reason, because the rack is so modular and anything can be wired to anything, that it's very complex. Almost. But Ableton I am downright annoyed with - every year I check it and every year it's broken.
If you're directly monitoring through your audio interface, how can you hear what's going on in the DAW, like the click and effects etc? you can blend between the audio interface and DAW, but I want the direct signal from the audio interface, plus a click linked to the DAW if that's possible?
Yes they are. They are also compensated as long as every track they are routed through has their sends deactivated. Personally I like to route my sends back into an audio track so I can process them with the group. Just means I need to make sure sends are deactivated on the track they are being sent to, as well being deactivated on the group that the track is then going to.
I have a template every time I open Ableton, all the fx are turnt off but there is a latency when I play on my keyboard, when I remove all the fx (we are talking about ozone 9 and sound theory gullfoss on the pre master) there is a latency. When I delete them the latency disappear, any clue why there is a latency just with these 2 plugins turnt off?
Freezing doesn’t actually fix any delay compensation issues. I think he is suggesting that once you flatten, you can then manually shift the audio back in time. However, this isn’t a solution for grid based modulation effects like LFO tool. If you flatten and move the audio so the sidechain effect is in time, you’ve then shifted the actual notes that are being played to be out of time. The only solutions to this that I know of, either simply have them early in the chain so they’re isn’t significant delay before the modulation effect. Or if it can be triggered with midi, instead of being locked to the grid, it will then take delay compensation into account.
4:37 then how do you fix this? How do you manage to put the side chaining pumping effect *after* the preceding effects while avoiding latency compensation?
@@alcoshino How do you compensate for every instance of delay through each plug-in in the chain? Will gain staging each plug-in help keep the delay down?
@@mezhbond good point, however latency has nothing to do with gain staging. Hover mouse over plugin name in the channel if you want to know delay it introduces. Delay readout is in the bottom left corner of Live. Then you can use offset in the lfo tool for example to compensate for the delay and get an envelope back in time.
@@alcoshino If you use an audio or midi trigger like @alcoshino suggested, you don’t need to worry about compensating for each individual plug-in manually. Ableton’s delay compensation will work it out and do it for you automatically.
Hey multi I'm a new sub.. today actually And I'm also 30 but let me go back a few years I wS in a band with my brother He was my bass player and we drove together for gigs and shows I guess we were in the wrong place at the wrong time an my brother was shot and killed and all are equipment was stolen... I made it out alive but for so many years I was dead inside.. so I tried drinking myself to death and stopped drumming and stop living... then 4 years ago I said fuck this and got sober started listening to music again And put on a "GasMask" 🤔 made up a drum character named RoseCovered 🥀GasMask So years go by sober I've got a cool character with no drums no band... So I said fuck it again a year ago And traded in my drum sticks for a laptop And about shit my pants🤣 Multi I'm always late to the party and I've got a dream to catch up to. and a brother to show I didn't give up... I've got another account as rose-covered gas mask but it's under roses are red... and multi my brother and I favorite music was bluegrass an electronic music such as Thievery Corporation it was our Dream to mix those two together "EGM" Electronic Grass Music and or electronic bluegrass music 🥀🔥🪕🎻🎚🎛🎹🔥🥀 I'm only on bandlab for now multi I need a teacher I've only got a year at this I've got to catchup make moves and start playing shows what ever that looks like....🥀
Good to see you finally uploading regularly, again. 😎👊
Good to see you back :) Recently started studying / Learning and using Ableton so looking forward to more Ableton Tutorials and tips !
Crazy I've been producing music for 4 years, never been recommended your content until today, and you live in the Cotswolds which is where I'm from!
Hey thanks for the video. Just want to say that your videos got a lot better. You are more relaxed and clear now. Cheers!
i love how you explain things.
Good to see you back, man! 🙌
Great video! QUICK TIP: Group your plugins/effects together and hover over the Group's Device Title Bar to get the sum of all latencies, starring Ben Affleck. And remember, plugins/effects, even if turned OFF, add latency.
Here's a question: is the TOTAL delay compensation of an entire project equal to the track with the longest latency?
While setting up a live looping set, I was having a timing difference between my monitor feed and my looped audio. After turning OFF delay compensation this rhythm problem went away. Just something to keep in mind if you’re struggling with this. I am mainly using sampler instruments and midi and audio effects on the tracks.
yea, in Livesets with low-latency VST plugins and generally low latency, activating delay compensation ADDS latency, isn't that funny, haha. For a real liveset-setup, VSTs from izotope are generally a no-go. They add severe latency to the whole project. Not worth it.
very informative... i've been doing all of these
very happy to see you back here on youtube!
Thanks a lot, my man!
nice to see that not only protools has problemes with time synced fx like LFO etc.
thank you! very educational
Nice to see you again, you look really healthy and calm. Keep them videos coming.
Great video! Any idea as to why they didn't introduce a video delay compensation too?
It was present in Live 9.
I just went back and checked and the metering issue was non existent (no matter how many plugins, delay compensation or how much CPU usage). Back then the video was delayed exactly as much as the audio.
I moved to Studio One years ago when 10 came out and was willing to give 11 a try and installed the trial, but this metering issue makes the daw useless for mixing and for a big part of production...
I can't talk about other daws, but Live 9 didn't have the problem, Studio One doesn't have this problem, so it's ridiculous that 2 daws later they are messing such a fundamental thing up.
I mean they are asking 700+ dollars for this daw, come on guys, it's basic common sense. I wonder what they do all day at the office🤣
Luckily I didn't pay for it yet, otherwise I'd ask my money back.
Gonna send a ticket to the support anayways, just in case they didn't notice the issueeven though it would be weird.
I'd be ashamed if I were Ableton. A professional top notch Daw that comes for such a high price can't have such a basic issue. Unbelievable.
Great topic and not so common to find.. Thank you @Multiplier
WHAT A GREAT VIDEO! OPENED MY EYES! SICK NEW CONTENT! THANKS!
GREAT! I had some issues like that this week. Thanks!
Glad you’re back
Why do frozen but unflattened tracks keep their latency? Does anyone know?
Man thanks for this info, I would have never thought Ableton did such things!
Thanks for uploading this - it's excellent!
Glad you are back man! Missed you
Glad you are back, btw the video is dope.
power to you
version 11 and still no proper delay compensation... Bitwig has it
I'm so glad I swapped to Bitwig.
It's far superior even tho I do miss a few smaller things.
The performance is mind blowing as well!
It's like comparing a bicycle with a Tesla.
@@RoXx1811 what are the differences between bitwig and ableton?
BUT u cant turn it off in Bitwig. So when you have high delay in bitwig you literally can't play something on keyboard. Seems like fucking devs doesnt have a damn brain. I just going to use free reaper then..
@@user-oi5hs8wt2oYou're wrong. If you want to play on keyboard or guitar live without latency just don't use plugins that cause this latency... Try to open any simple VST synth and put Pro-Q in Linear Phase Max. After this Its impossible to play live in any DAW. In Bitwig you can deactivate plugins that cause this latency. Its not the same like switch on/of in Ableton.
Delay compensation is not what gives you 0 latency.
Delay compensation is what makes you audio to be snaped to the grid. Just play any loop, then add something like LFOtool or Volumeshaper and render result. Then try to put Pro-Q Linear Phase Max before LFOtool and render again. You will be out of grid/sync in Ableton. There is no such problem in Bitwig. This is what Ableton delay compensation problem is.
@@VladArtsense No in proper daws you have to choose enable or disable pdc. Easy to say just do that or do that. If i pay shitload of money for license and didn't get such BASIC feature. If you have a gigantic project with plugins like soothe on channels that gives a lot of latency and you should go find them all, deactivate, play some notes, activate then again and again? lol what a nonsence. its just another compromise
Sensei Multiplier , we see that you have attained Enlightenment. Good to have you back in this avatar.
Wow I had no idea about this issue! Thank you for bringing this to light!
It's had this problem for years. I noticed it years ago when using a plugin chain which had plugins running with different internal sampling rates (some oversampling etc). The delay compensation was not acurate across all the tracks playing. This is not good for solid bass in a mix.
Alright, I don't even use Ableton! But this guy is so cool I watched the entire video!
Great video! .... but what would you suggest if you are using a plugin such as volumeshaper after about 5 other fx? (to resync it) Thanks!
could you do one on "reduce latency when monitoring" and recording with monitoring OFF and monitoring AUTO and show the differences? i think that one would be very interesting, specially when sending MIDI from ableton to a device and then recording it back or using external efx pedals ( using external instrument / efx can help sometimes with that kind of latency )
💯
If you haven’t seen it already, then check out this video where it’s explained: th-cam.com/video/WkQkzBB6Szc/w-d-xo.html
Just pleased your back...
right!
Multliplier - Too bad I wasn't certain of how this worked 2 years ago.
Better late...thanks for this.
conclusion: just bounce everything to audio
Great explanation!!
Wonder why Ableton devs haven't bothered addressing this.
@multiplier Hi mate congrats on the new place. I have a few questions. Is there anywhere I can I can message you?
Well done.
Damnn, what an insight on the sends! 🙏
Multiplier asking the important questions.
Thank god for you! Most of my music involves a guitar, I can't even play in time with this latency nonsense!
Way late but crank that buffer size down as far as possible too while tracking. Turn it back up for mixing etc
WE LOVE YOU MAN ❤️
No difference in version 12, I can not believe that Live's compensation is still this bad vs all other DAWs. There are only 2 major DAWs that have poor PDC like this, and that's Live and Reason. I would have switched to Ableton full time a decade back if they fixed this as I enjoy the workflow. I am a heavy UAD plugin user, all my EQ's and dynamics are done with UAD, therefore I have various latencies all over the place, so you can imagine what kind of fresh nightmare Live is for me. I actually don't think Ableton get it - and I also think that's why Bitwig made such a point of doing this to perfection (frustrated ex Ableton staff started Bitwig). But it's why I stick to Pro Tools and Nuendo myself, as the compensation is beautiful, for sidechains, sends, the visual playhead, all tempo based effects, everything just works. The other DAWs calculate the delay when you press playback before the playhead starts moving, and voila. Much of Ableton's problems will go away if they simply did this, and they already have the base code to do this in there otherwise PDC wouldn't work at all to begin with, but they just don't want to add the feature. It's interesting when the devs of every other major DAW in existence understand the need for this, and implemented it properly many years ago at that. I can almost forgive Reason, because the rack is so modular and anything can be wired to anything, that it's very complex. Almost. But Ableton I am downright annoyed with - every year I check it and every year it's broken.
BTW, almost every quality plugin with oversampling has some sort of latency these days.
maybe the unison midi chord pack could help
welcome back buddy!
OOHHH my god
Great video, thank youu!!
comb filter master !
If you're directly monitoring through your audio interface, how can you hear what's going on in the DAW, like the click and effects etc? you can blend between the audio interface and DAW, but I want the direct signal from the audio interface, plus a click linked to the DAW if that's possible?
Hey great video!
HELLO BUT YOU DIDNT GIVE HOW TO FIX IT I MEAN THE SHAPER BOX ONE
@6:15, infinite loops *can't* be delay compensated right? I wasn't sure if you were saying "can"
4:53 I get the example here, but do return tracks with the output routed to the master bus have delay compensation?
Yes they are. They are also compensated as long as every track they are routed through has their sends deactivated.
Personally I like to route my sends back into an audio track so I can process them with the group. Just means I need to make sure sends are deactivated on the track they are being sent to, as well being deactivated on the group that the track is then going to.
I have a template every time I open Ableton, all the fx are turnt off but there is a latency when I play on my keyboard, when I remove all the fx (we are talking about ozone 9 and sound theory gullfoss on the pre master) there is a latency. When I delete them the latency disappear, any clue why there is a latency just with these 2 plugins turnt off?
Great video my friend :-)
really, man! so good
shouldnt freezing tracks be enough for delay compensation? why also flatten them?
Freezing doesn’t actually fix any delay compensation issues. I think he is suggesting that once you flatten, you can then manually shift the audio back in time.
However, this isn’t a solution for grid based modulation effects like LFO tool. If you flatten and move the audio so the sidechain effect is in time, you’ve then shifted the actual notes that are being played to be out of time.
The only solutions to this that I know of, either simply have them early in the chain so they’re isn’t significant delay before the modulation effect. Or if it can be triggered with midi, instead of being locked to the grid, it will then take delay compensation into account.
hey!
like the new video, voice sounds a bit boxy?
can't wait for the next one
The man without the gear 😎 #AllSoftware
nice content!
Dads back
Getting straight to the point. What are the haters going to do now?
He talks so much softer now
nice video, I have been saying for years I can spot an Ableton mix. I guess I am hearing those NON compensated return channels catching people out.
Is this Live 9?
4:37 then how do you fix this? How do you manage to put the side chaining pumping effect *after* the preceding effects while avoiding latency compensation?
Use midi or audio trigger for sc or compensate for the delay manually
@@alcoshino How do you compensate for every instance of delay through each plug-in in the chain? Will gain staging each plug-in help keep the delay down?
@@mezhbond good point, however latency has nothing to do with gain staging. Hover mouse over plugin name in the channel if you want to know delay it introduces. Delay readout is in the bottom left corner of Live. Then you can use offset in the lfo tool for example to compensate for the delay and get an envelope back in time.
@@alcoshino If you use an audio or midi trigger like @alcoshino suggested, you don’t need to worry about compensating for each individual plug-in manually. Ableton’s delay compensation will work it out and do it for you automatically.
@@TjMoon91 spot on pal!
You look and sound like Tim Roth 😎
Why on earth would you ever want to turn this off? Ableton should just have it enabled permanently on the backend without an option to turn it off
Wish you didn't sell acoustic treatment. Hard listening to. Just saying....
Hey multi I'm a new sub.. today actually
And I'm also 30 but let me go back a few years I wS in a band with my brother He was my bass player and we drove together for gigs and shows
I guess we were in the wrong place at the wrong time an my brother was shot and killed and all are equipment was stolen... I made it out alive but for so many years I was dead inside.. so I tried drinking myself to death and stopped drumming and stop living... then 4 years ago I said fuck this and got sober started listening to music again
And put on a "GasMask" 🤔 made up a drum character named RoseCovered 🥀GasMask
So years go by sober I've got a cool character with no drums no band...
So I said fuck it again a year ago
And traded in my drum sticks for a laptop
And about shit my pants🤣
Multi I'm always late to the party and I've got a dream to catch up to. and a brother to show I didn't give up... I've got another account as rose-covered gas mask but it's under roses are red... and multi my brother and I favorite music was bluegrass an electronic music such as Thievery Corporation it was our Dream to mix those two together "EGM" Electronic Grass Music and or electronic bluegrass music
🥀🔥🪕🎻🎚🎛🎹🔥🥀
I'm only on bandlab for now multi I need a teacher
I've only got a year at this I've got to catchup make moves and start playing shows what ever that looks like....🥀
....🥀
lmao why is the sound coming out of the RX 7s so funny. Farts arent funny to me but this is. lol wtf
I love the tips and was just thinking of this, though this is very annoying to listen to with how soft he is speaking.
Ha, disableton problems
🙏🙏🙏🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯
Or get a DAW that does this for you properly, as Ableton doesn't give a damn...
Why are you talking so quietly?
The way you talk is strange, no offence but is that how you really talk or is it just a TH-cam thing?
Your voice sounds hoarse, you hiding from your neighbors?