“You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.” the journey of art right there
For me this is one of the best episodes you guys have done. So much here. Such great advice and the little passing references to the great artists we might study was fabulous. I'm a big believer in master studies and do them regularly but have barely scratched the surface. I've come away from this talk mesmerized in thought about all the possibilities in master studies I hadn't thought of before. Great stuff guys!
I agree, this is one of the best episodes. What was said about creative process too.. that's so motivating. They addressed a few insecurities we all have. Thank you very much for the podcasts. And thanks for this one specially.
Caught this just by accident and boy am I glad I did. I'm by no means even an amateur artist, so all this knowledge is brand new and invaluable - and so clearly and concisely expressed. Feels like I'm at uni. Thank you, gents.
It’s hilarious that he spilled matcha on himself when I just watched the video of him and Aaron Blaise drawing in the wild (in Florida), and he walked around with spilled coffee allllll down his shirt. 😂😂😂
I remember the first time I saw an original Picasso up close enough that I could have touched it (if not for the glass...). Oh my... THAT was an emotional experience. Seeing individual brushstrokes made me feel like I was looking over his shoulder watching him paint. Everyone should have that experience at least a couple of times...
52:29 "romance the technique, play with it" Ironically, one of the best ways I found for doing that is to reduce it to the apparently routine (something minimal that I need to do somehow anyway, and could choose to do with a little more effort than the minimum) An example is labels - I make a point of dating and signing drawings, but it shouldn't be just printing out letters like a computer rendering text - it should be a composition in its own right, which conveys its own unique space and personality, while still remaining readable and subordinate to the drawing. That keeps intent, composition, proportion, "color" (typographical term which can be connected to 'smoothness of composition"), and 3d space as going concerns even when I might be fatigued from larger-scale work; I never have to worry too much about fatigue when each of these mini-compositions can be done in minutes. Another example is to use gray + one color instead of gray-only. Or make one thumbnail instead of no thumbnail. Whatever is the 'smallest box you could create in which [the technique you are studying] can still be exercised thoroughly'. EDIT: As it turns out, this also ties into your point about improvisation as a way to train instinct.
I love these guys so much.Just wow. Means alot to me that guys like this are sharing the knowledge so openly. And honestly. Without fluff and ego. No frills. Just straight to the truth.
Excellent. Best study I ever had, with Jack Beal and Sondra Freckelton...COMPOSITION: Analysis of color, shape, line, notan....of master paintings. Of course Dutch, Italian Masters, they ALL COMPOSED SPACE!!! Brava
Still in love with the podcast - thank you both for your invaluable discussions! But, can we please have someone moderate the questions for the show in line with Marshall's and Stan's feedback on, 'what is a good question?' It must be frustrating for you guys to answer them and it's frustrating as a listener to hear these bad questions constantly; especially after the feedback you have given.
This podcasts always indspire me. Sometimes more than others, but there are always gems to pick and collect from this videos. Also, Stan, you are the reason for me to be able to draw. Thank you.
I want to say this now... For the first several minutes of the podcast... There is already some meaty stuff to think about. I love listening, watching and checking the recommendations you two have. Thank you for sharing your experiences, and realizations. I truly appreciate the discussions. More power to you two!
Stan is correct , when you are in art school you should work from life. Be it still life or models. When it was with Charles Cecil, I drew casts for one year before I went to painting. The light was controlled with black boxes, High North light windows etc. I was not a beginner but I have taught beginners. Unfortunately, many art schools are a business and teachers are forced to give crash courses. I was in Berlin now Vienna the students get scared off of hard work. But I think it is very important to start with life.
Wow , Guys your podcast is incredible (gosh! so happy to live in this "youtube knowledge sharing times") ! those 2 last episodes were ones of the best in my opinion !Your way of articulating every challenges and ways to over coming them is just perfect ! Thanks you both, it s just gold !
im reading keys to drawing, I'm on chapter 2 and i didn't feel as it was very significant, it was showing masters and their "handwriting" and just telling you to try and copy them. while watching this i realized why it was encouraging me to do it. So thank you that on helping me with that.
I Loved how expressively Stan was talking about studying brushwork for oil painting, I got the same feeling when someone talks really well about cooking something. Yumyumm :D
Listening to so many Proko and Marshall podcasts at my current day job while pursuing my art career (tattooing). Can't wait to start working at a tattoo studio though 🤩 thanks for these podcasts, they pull me through the boringness of my current job
25:35 25:35 25:35 !!! I needed to hear this omg. Ive been working on a painting for a while now, and im getting so frustrated bc ive been doing more comps than i usually do to try and get the colors right. But its comforting to know that even masters like rockwell go thru 10+ iterations and struggle with the process before reaching the final piece. Also anything marshall says i obv take it to heart 🥰🥰
It's funny. I like the part about the terrible twos. My painting teacher back in college said the same thing, "A boring composition is a boring composition". Well he put it more like "it doesn't matter how good the painter is, a bad composition will just be a bad composition".
This podcast has been such an amazing resource. Thanks to you guys I discovered the zettlekasten method of taking notes, I have a clearer idea of how to study masters. And just the amount of resources you manage to get in there. There are like 5 or six episodes I replay really often just becouse I feel there's so much to absorb. I'm kind of sad y the potcast ended, but I'm eager to see what comes next.
Awesome - I love the advise of Proko about studying Masters as a beginner (Basically Don't). That you'll gain more from study from life than from masters.
Man, you guys are really knocking it out of the park! Also, thank you for introducing me to so many artists whose work I was not familiar with! Going to listen to this one twice. Take care! 😊👏🏻👍🏻
I really appreciate the advice catered toward beginners (Me), These methods on how to study never occurred to me at all, its all still a lot to take in, But maybe soon Ill be able to Ace the Understanding 3d forms lesson of the figure course
I listen to this podcast while at work, I work doing garden landscaping and as Marshall was talking about the sound of a chainsaw my coworker was using a chainsaw
Ref. to studying masters in a museum (the originals): for me it's also about sizes, there are paintings with such an impact - you could've never imagined by seeing just a photo of it. Not only the really big ones, but this also applies to smaller works. I've discoverd your podcasts just now and really appreciate them, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts!
The resources in the description are very helpful. This video taught me things that I didn't even know I needed. Thank you, Proko! P.S. Could the names of the artists mentioned in the videos be put in the descriptions?
Following the stuff around the 15 min mark... How can one self-teach from the masters? Sure, look at brushmanship, composition, trying to understand how the artist reached the final result... but how do we do that? is there any particular way to follow? do i just grab a picture from my favourite artist and observe? how do I "read" a brush mark? I know this is quite complicated (and to be fair i have yet to finish watching the video) but a breakdown of the method you guys use to do a deep master study would be great. Edit: 31:20 :p
Stan, you should put those Western oil paintings in your portfolio. Even if you credit the original artist. I cant speak for all Art Directors but in my field (environment design) we like to see studies at that level
To me, a study is a preparatory drawing or painting to be used as a guide in composing a finished work. Of course, a study additionally can also be a finished work of art in itself.
Stan, The simplicity of your 'Fisherman at the Seashore' is beautiful, and I love your colors. The sky is beautiful! If this is your example of a "boring" painting, I'm sorry, I have to disagree. Jim Dasher, Spectrum Graphics (Seattle metro)
Nvm, I already made it, you’re welcome: * Michelangelo * Rembrandt * Nicolai Fechin * Tucker Smith * Howard Terpning * Morgan Weistling * J.C. Leyendecker * Norman Rockwell * Alfonse Mucha * Bernie Wrightson * Saul Bass * Joaquín Sorolla * Mary Cassat * Franklin Booth * Heinrich Kley * Gerald Scarfe * Claire Wendling * Albert Dürer * Scott Robertson (May be incomplete)
I am trying to study composition, and I have been studying art that I love but since I am also easily bored, I will not copy the image itself I just use the composition. So instead of a painting of a human couple enjoying a glass of wine in Paris, I will replace the couple with slug aliens in a sci fi scene. I always credit the inspiration/source of the composition, though I do notice people doing similar things to this without crediting the artists they took the composition from. I have been wondering how legit this is, for me its clear they should be credited even if the work is unrecognizable, but many people strongly disagree.
This reminds me of GPS it’s like you don’t learn the way to the location because you’re so reliant on the GPS to guide you until you do it so many times... but you don’t know WHY you’re even taking that route.. what if you chose to go to that location in rush hour.. you don’t know why the gps put you on that route initially.. and you don’t know the area, roads, traffic etc.. and bc of this you can’t get around it... so you’ve not learned a skill in its entirety if just mindlessly copying. (in comparison/reference to “copying “ vs “doing a study” on artists technique commentary in beginning of episode)
Court Jones has a couple lessons on master studies - th-cam.com/video/6P8hos5PL_4/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/fgbLg5aFrWg/w-d-xo.html
I am saying this again please do a podcast on how to learn colour.
Please listen to James
It's a humble request
please listen to Will
Can u do an Episode on the art of Beskinski, I'd be so interested what your thoughts are and how u would analyse his art.
STAN SPILLED THE GREEN STUFF
For a second it felt like he was going into start wars theme tune... with those lyrics...
Wheeee!!!
Marshall should do a podcast talking about pretty much everything. I could listen to him all day.
take a class
Absolutely agree with u.
absolutely
no way!
he has a lot of energy
“If people knew how hard I had to work to gain my mastery, it would not seem so wonderful at all.” - Michelangelo Buonarroti
👌👌👌
I disagree with Michelangelo, I'd be amazed at how hard he worked.
@@JeffReilly"It" here is his talent, he is talking about his talent.
“You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.”
the journey of art right there
Hxh reference!!
“Your always gonna find out that you suck..” that was great lol
For me this is one of the best episodes you guys have done. So much here. Such great advice and the little passing references to the great artists we might study was fabulous. I'm a big believer in master studies and do them regularly but have barely scratched the surface. I've come away from this talk mesmerized in thought about all the possibilities in master studies I hadn't thought of before. Great stuff guys!
I agree, this is one of the best episodes. What was said about creative process too.. that's so motivating. They addressed a few insecurities we all have. Thank you very much for the podcasts. And thanks for this one specially.
I agree - Although you are one of those Masters to follow.
Ditto
@@edwardmedina1236 indeed, indeed!!
Marshall's bookshelf: extensive library of great classics
Proko's bookshelf: Twilight
Caught this just by accident and boy am I glad I did. I'm by no means even an amateur artist, so all this knowledge is brand new and invaluable - and so clearly and concisely expressed. Feels like I'm at uni. Thank you, gents.
at 23:00 what Marshall says about the creative process is very valuable and clearly laid out
It’s hilarious that he spilled matcha on himself when I just watched the video of him and Aaron Blaise drawing in the wild (in Florida), and he walked around with spilled coffee allllll down his shirt. 😂😂😂
lol
Everyone is always talking about Marshall, but Stan is opening up more and more it feels like.
Marshall's explanation of the creative process needs to be clipped. Very helpful and on point!
I remember the first time I saw an original Picasso up close enough that I could have touched it (if not for the glass...). Oh my... THAT was an emotional experience. Seeing individual brushstrokes made me feel like I was looking over his shoulder watching him paint. Everyone should have that experience at least a couple of times...
Please an episode on story telling! its the aspect i find the most joyful on the creative process. love you two ^^
52:29 "romance the technique, play with it"
Ironically, one of the best ways I found for doing that is to reduce it to the apparently routine (something minimal that I need to do somehow anyway, and could choose to do with a little more effort than the minimum)
An example is labels - I make a point of dating and signing drawings, but it shouldn't be just printing out letters like a computer rendering text - it should be a composition in its own right, which conveys its own unique space and personality, while still remaining readable and subordinate to the drawing. That keeps intent, composition, proportion, "color" (typographical term which can be connected to 'smoothness of composition"), and 3d space as going concerns even when I might be fatigued from larger-scale work; I never have to worry too much about fatigue when each of these mini-compositions can be done in minutes.
Another example is to use gray + one color instead of gray-only. Or make one thumbnail instead of no thumbnail. Whatever is the 'smallest box you could create in which [the technique you are studying] can still be exercised thoroughly'.
EDIT: As it turns out, this also ties into your point about improvisation as a way to train instinct.
"Portraits, you can't avoiding studying that as an artist", me a professional artist: *chuckles* "I'm in danger".
I mean you could just draw feet if that's what you want XD
@@AscendantStoic I'm a paleoartist, I usually don't draw humans.
Professional artist? lol
Well, it's my main income and I studied art.
@@lulilua9603 dang so rude
marshall could talk about his last prostata check and i would sit here listening to his voice...good find prokopenko, good find.
Oh boy this subject is so important to me. I'll make sure to listen to it thoroughly. I really want to be able to draw more like my favorite artists.
Same, I want to study Kim Jung Gi's drawings but I find it almost impossible 😂
I needed this. I’ve been burnt out for quite some time during quarantine and this hit the spot.
I love these guys so much.Just wow. Means alot to me that guys like this are sharing the knowledge so openly. And honestly. Without fluff and ego. No frills. Just straight to the truth.
Excellent. Best study I ever had, with Jack Beal and Sondra Freckelton...COMPOSITION: Analysis of color, shape, line, notan....of master paintings. Of course Dutch, Italian Masters, they ALL COMPOSED SPACE!!! Brava
34:50 I too adore when you start mentioning the artists!!
yess
This series is phenomenal, I love you guys. I have so much respect for the both of you and wish you great health and prosperity!
פשוט תענוג להקשיב לשניכם.
אתם שניכם פותרים לי כל כך הרבה בעיות בלימוד עצמי. לומדת כל כך הרבה מכם ומהעצות הקולעות.
תודה רבה 😍
I just discovered these podcasts! Time to marathon!
Still in love with the podcast - thank you both for your invaluable discussions!
But, can we please have someone moderate the questions for the show in line with Marshall's and Stan's feedback on, 'what is a good question?'
It must be frustrating for you guys to answer them and it's frustrating as a listener to hear these bad questions constantly; especially after the feedback you have given.
Im watching/listening to this while I wash the dishes. Thank u so much for continuing to produce this content for us!
Thank you for this very informative episode. I have watched every one of the Draftsman podcasts. This was absolutely the best!
This podcasts always indspire me. Sometimes more than others, but there are always gems to pick and collect from this videos. Also, Stan, you are the reason for me to be able to draw. Thank you.
I want to say this now... For the first several minutes of the podcast... There is already some meaty stuff to think about.
I love listening, watching and checking the recommendations you two have.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, and realizations. I truly appreciate the discussions.
More power to you two!
Stan is correct , when you are in art school you should work from life. Be it still life or models. When it was with Charles Cecil, I drew casts for one year before I went to painting. The light was controlled with black boxes, High North light windows etc. I was not a beginner but I have taught beginners. Unfortunately, many art schools are a business and teachers are forced to give crash courses. I was in Berlin now Vienna the students get scared off of hard work. But I think it is very important to start with life.
Me when i saw the thumbnail:" I´ve seen this one. This is classic."
Then I saw the swithced faces. Very clever.
Wow , Guys your podcast is incredible (gosh! so happy to live in this "youtube knowledge sharing times") ! those 2 last episodes were ones of the best in my opinion !Your way of articulating every challenges and ways to over coming them is just perfect ! Thanks you both, it s just gold !
I'm just drooling at Marshall's book collection
I just found this channel. Wow. This is awesome and just what I need right now. Thanks Draughtsmen
Marshall is very entertaining. Super knowledgeable too, but just fun to watch. Great job Sir
25:50 I felt Marshall's look in the eyes, not even looking in the monitor
I think this has been the greatest episode by far. Amazing!
First Step: Spill big loads of green Matcha over your canvas
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS EPISODE! 😍😍😍
im reading keys to drawing, I'm on chapter 2 and i didn't feel as it was very significant, it was showing masters and their "handwriting" and just telling you to try and copy them. while watching this i realized why it was encouraging me to do it. So thank you that on helping me with that.
I feel so nourished after listening to this podcast. Like water for my soul. Thank you both!
I Loved how expressively Stan was talking about studying brushwork for oil painting, I got the same feeling when someone talks really well about cooking something. Yumyumm :D
Listening to so many Proko and Marshall podcasts at my current day job while pursuing my art career (tattooing). Can't wait to start working at a tattoo studio though 🤩 thanks for these podcasts, they pull me through the boringness of my current job
People have probably said it before but I love your guys thumbnails for your videos lmao
25:35
25:35
25:35
!!!
I needed to hear this omg. Ive been working on a painting for a while now, and im getting so frustrated bc ive been doing more comps than i usually do to try and get the colors right. But its comforting to know that even masters like rockwell go thru 10+ iterations and struggle with the process before reaching the final piece.
Also anything marshall says i obv take it to heart 🥰🥰
Deffo my favourite from you guys so far. Many gems of advice here - one to watch more than once…
Man , you guys are great ! Thanks for the fountain of wisdom that you provide us all with 🙏
This was one of the better Episodes! I enjoyed the focus on the topic, the fantastic discussion and examples.
My favorite podcast thus far. I really appreciate it guys.
It's funny. I like the part about the terrible twos. My painting teacher back in college said the same thing, "A boring composition is a boring composition". Well he put it more like "it doesn't matter how good the painter is, a bad composition will just be a bad composition".
This podcast has been such an amazing resource. Thanks to you guys I discovered the zettlekasten method of taking notes, I have a clearer idea of how to study masters. And just the amount of resources you manage to get in there. There are like 5 or six episodes I replay really often just becouse I feel there's so much to absorb. I'm kind of sad y the potcast ended, but I'm eager to see what comes next.
This was great to start my day off. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Please don’t stop making podcasts! These things are really informative
Awesome - I love the advise of Proko about studying Masters as a beginner (Basically Don't). That you'll gain more from study from life than from masters.
Oh boy, its such a pleasure to listen to ur discussion. Thanks for another great episode. Love what u do.
man marshall SAVES this podcast
Can Marshall please catalog his bookshelf and share the list? PLEASE?
Amazing, thank you. This was one of the best ones so far. Please do one on Bridgman and one on the duality of gesture and structure.
thank you for your podcast, they give me nice essential energy
Man, you guys are really knocking it out of the park! Also, thank you for introducing me to so many artists whose work I was not familiar with! Going to listen to this one twice. Take care! 😊👏🏻👍🏻
I really appreciate the advice catered toward beginners (Me), These methods on how to study never occurred to me at all, its all still a lot to take in, But maybe soon Ill be able to Ace the Understanding 3d forms lesson of the figure course
Just when I needed this! Recently made my own curriculum and master studies is definitely there
you guys share so much knowledge I can't believe this is free. Awesome video!
that's so cool about the communions of Master Copies.
PLEASE, a Draftsmen podcast about storytelling !!!
I'm into my fourth listen on this. Quite brilliant episode.
I listen to this podcast while at work, I work doing garden landscaping and as Marshall was talking about the sound of a chainsaw my coworker was using a chainsaw
They are in your walls
25:28 Where can we read this Strathmore interview with Saul Bass?
Ref. to studying masters in a museum (the originals): for me it's also about sizes, there are paintings with such an impact - you could've never imagined by seeing just a photo of it. Not only the really big ones, but this also applies to smaller works.
I've discoverd your podcasts just now and really appreciate them, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts!
The resources in the description are very helpful. This video taught me things that I didn't even know I needed. Thank you, Proko! P.S. Could the names of the artists mentioned in the videos be put in the descriptions?
someone who's a musician should get in contact with marshall and make these musical sketches into tunes
I learned a lot from this video. Thank you for making it and teaching.
My favorite episode yet, you guys covered a lot thanks (a bit shorter would make it more accessible)
So valuable, thanks guys!!
Thank you for the lessons.😊
Informative and uplifting.
Following the stuff around the 15 min mark... How can one self-teach from the masters? Sure, look at brushmanship, composition, trying to understand how the artist reached the final result... but how do we do that? is there any particular way to follow? do i just grab a picture from my favourite artist and observe? how do I "read" a brush mark?
I know this is quite complicated (and to be fair i have yet to finish watching the video) but a breakdown of the method you guys use to do a deep master study would be great.
Edit: 31:20 :p
Skip to 1:16 to actually start.
A great episode! Thanks Stan and Marshall :)
A fantastic podcast. Thank you.
The best art podcast I've seen to date, you're going to bankrupt art schools!
nice show guys! thank you very much
Stan, you should put those Western oil paintings in your portfolio. Even if you credit the original artist. I cant speak for all Art Directors but in my field (environment design) we like to see studies at that level
Any chance to have a episode on "cheats" in art? specially at concept art, with 3D underpainting, photobashing, draw overs and such
Thank you. Hmmm.... Being mindful about copying some work. Thank you. It seems obvious, but I'm not sure I got it until just now.
Excellent episode as well.. cheers!!
To me, a study is a preparatory drawing or painting to be used as a guide in composing a finished work. Of course, a study additionally can also be a finished work of art in itself.
Stan,
The simplicity of your 'Fisherman at the Seashore' is beautiful, and I love your colors.
The sky is beautiful!
If this is your example of a "boring" painting, I'm sorry, I have to disagree.
Jim Dasher,
Spectrum Graphics
(Seattle metro)
A great episode thanks guys:)
I liked that chef analogy
It’d be very helpful if somebody made a list of all the masters cited in the video and possibly what subject each one is good for studying...
Nvm, I already made it, you’re welcome:
* Michelangelo
* Rembrandt
* Nicolai Fechin
* Tucker Smith
* Howard Terpning
* Morgan Weistling
* J.C. Leyendecker
* Norman Rockwell
* Alfonse Mucha
* Bernie Wrightson
* Saul Bass
* Joaquín Sorolla
* Mary Cassat
* Franklin Booth
* Heinrich Kley
* Gerald Scarfe
* Claire Wendling
* Albert Dürer
* Scott Robertson
(May be incomplete)
Thank you
Another great podcast
really good stuff here...thanks!
Many public domain art books are available for download or reading online free! A great help for the art student’s wallet!
I am trying to study composition, and I have been studying art that I love but since I am also easily bored, I will not copy the image itself I just use the composition. So instead of a painting of a human couple enjoying a glass of wine in Paris, I will replace the couple with slug aliens in a sci fi scene. I always credit the inspiration/source of the composition, though I do notice people doing similar things to this without crediting the artists they took the composition from. I have been wondering how legit this is, for me its clear they should be credited even if the work is unrecognizable, but many people strongly disagree.
28:59 - working towards finish
47:47 - claire wendling
This reminds me of GPS it’s like you don’t learn the way to the location because you’re so reliant on the GPS to guide you until you do it so many times... but you don’t know WHY you’re even taking that route.. what if you chose to go to that location in rush hour.. you don’t know why the gps put you on that route initially.. and you don’t know the area, roads, traffic etc.. and bc of this you can’t get around it... so you’ve not learned a skill in its entirety if just mindlessly copying. (in comparison/reference to “copying “ vs “doing a study” on artists technique commentary in beginning of episode)
Is this not S2E17? E16 was "The War of Art"
edit - oh cool you fixed it :D