Good GOD. The recipe on this one. A pilot who hadn't been back in 6 years who didn't know the layout. An ex air force LIAR on probation. A badly faded sign on the runway. Low visibility. And a Tower controller who didn't issue his own warning in time. WHAT A MESS!
Yep. I can't remember what airport it was, but one a/c was lost in low viz. Female irate controller trying to find out. They then issue a takeoff clearance to another a/c, but the Captains says, "negative, we're going to wait here until this is sorted" or words to that effect.
@baraxor. One would think that making an ass of you and me (assuming) would be something that ATCs are trained NOT THE EFF TO DO...but apparently assumptions are OK. Good thing we're only commenting on TH-cam videos and not controlling fast moving metal tubes full of human beings, Oh, wait...
Did the tower controller think that planes became airborne the instant they are cleared for takeoff? Could've said something like "If you're not already airborne, cancel takeoff clearance and abort."
If you're _assuming_ you know where the plane is... you don't know where the plane is. This should have been an immediate operational stop until the aircrafts' positions were verified.
A combination of errors by the DC-9 pilots, air traffic control and poor signage. It’s lucky that the DC-9 was on the side of the runway instead of the middle or it would’ve been much worse.
That was like a snowball rolling down a hill, a snowball of mistakes, growing bigger and bigger and bigger until a catastrophic avalanche was inevitable.
I always hate the "conclusions" on this one. I'm not saying the Northwest 1482 pilots didn't screw up horribly, but they pile so much weight on subjective and insubstantial things such as the FO's bs'ing the Captain over his military service, and yet gloss over the rather glaring things. That the airport was very poorly marked. So much so that the NTSB investigators trying to recreate the NW planes path got lost themselves and failed to make the critical turn. Without having to deal with the fog. That the Tower ATC lost track of NW 299 and didn't shut down takeoffs or communicate the runway incursion to the plane. I mean yes, the NW 1482 pilots were clearly lost and embarrassed. And yes neither was at the top of their A game. But they had reached out and communicated their situation to the Tower controllers. There was more than enough time for the airport to stop and get them out of there. We put a lot of weight and responsibility on pilots. which is fine when they are airborn. But on the ground planes are vast lumbering beasts with poor controls and poor visibility. It is up to the airport to manage and control them properly.
Agreed!!! There was another crash/runway incursion in Italy in the 80's(Milan maybe???) where the whole thing could have been avoided if the airport bothered to maintain its signs/clearly marked the taxiways.
Once again, so many things that went wrong, any one of which would've stopped this sad event. They should have shut down everything once those pilots said they were lost... the takeoff controller fouled that up. So sad. Rest the souls of the dead. Nice video, Allec... :)
I have been waiting to see this one. RIP to those who lost their lives. I don’t know about the rest of the subscribers here, but I miss flying on the DC-9’s and 727’s.
I live near YIP (charter/GA airport that used to be the big Detroit airport before DTW) and Kalitta Air still operates a handful of 727s for charters and cargo. Such a joy to see them climbing out over my house and especially hearing them - older jets have a lower, louder roar to them than the current turbofan ones
@@Capecodham It may have seemed similar because they are after all using the same set of publicly available facts, transcripts of dialog between the plane and ATC and talking about the same incident but he doesn't copy other people's work. He does his own simulations. You need to think more carefully before you accuse someone of plagiarism or provide some evidence rather than just throwing out unsupported accusations.
@@jakerson181 plagiarism is not an issue as I don't think the copy was exactly the same, just similar. I would guess he viewed the other video and re-wrote in his own words.
Lol i said the same thing in my head when he said he was now a firefighter. I wonder how many times hes had to jump from burning buildings with a baby in each arm and grandma on his back🙄
I feel sorry for Captain Lovelace...1st flight after a lengthy absence (The video didnt suggest any direct wrongdoing on the Captains part) and understandably reliant on the FO's help. Loosing 8 people clearly affected him badly and so he retired ☹ RIP to all whom perished.
I remember the reporting on this crash SO clearly, even though I was just 7 years old. I talked people's ears off about "the DC-9 and the 727." I have been hoping that you would eventually bring the story to life with your incredible skills, Allec. Thank you so much.
When you look at the post crash photos, he was very nearly ejected Headless -note how the wing sythed open the RHS cockpit position. at the window line. Tim Fidler.
Wow. Great job, Alec. I’ll admit I almost jumped out of my seat when that aircraft came rolling down the runway (autocorrect wanted to print ‘highway’) and struck the other one. Even though there were errors on the pilots’ part (and ATC too), so thankful it wasn’t another Tenerife. I’m kind of saddened that neither pilot ever flew again.
Felt bad for some of those passengers, just sitting there in their seats, waiting on the pilots for takeoff, and without warning, the wingtip of another airliner comes slicing through the fuselage and slices through a few of those passengers in the process.
I feel really bad for Flight 1482’s Captain. Imagine if you were off because you’re sick, and when you return, you trust in a smug and irresponsable man who leads you to have an accident which people died. It’s not your fault, but you’re co-responsible because you’re the Captain. The shame that poor man must have felt, that he finished his career, maybe with so much to give. Rest In Peace Captain Lovelace 🙏🏼😔
Imagine how hideous the view from the left side of the cabin was too see. No doubt some PTSD from that. Certainly many were decapitated or worse. Terrible. RIP to those who perished and to those who witnessed the carnage.
I can't imagine something worse than being decapitated, at least it would have been over quickly. I hadn't heard of this incursion before. Only thing I'm wondering is why the airport wasn't closed due to minima and I'm sure it would have been against NW SOPs as well.
Been watching your videos for six months now. Don't know how many Subs you had at the time, but you deserve all that you have ane more... your music is award-worthy
Big Ed: I agree, hard for a layman to visualise what going on. But the fear was growing all the while that they were getting completely lost and even possibly on an active runway, was self-evident.
Flew the line for 25 years, every time someone would brag about their experience first thought was ...oh man, a four day with this guy.....and in general they were never that good. As an ASAP ERC member, it was surprising how may airport signage and markings reports we would preside over, more than you would think. This is reminiscent of the United crew that was disoriented in Providence, RI, thankfully nobody was injured. Out of all of the videos Joshua, this was especially well done.
Yesterday was the 30th anniversary of United Airlines flight 585 that crashed on approach to Colorado Springs Airport due to a rudder hardover that killed 25 people. The crash was forgotten due to the fact that it occurred on the same day as the beating of Rodney King. ✈
I remember that day very well. It was bitterly cold. I was working a trip from IAD-DEN. Everyone was seriously upset and concerned. The pilot's were highly regarded and very experienced. I stayed away from the 737s for awhile after that. The Detroit accident never should have happened.
New to your channel. What an exceptionally well done video. Thank you for your hard work and for taking the time to really dig out the details of these unfortunate events. I'm not a pilot but work in emergency management and these investigations hold value for me because in many cases they outline human/system failures. One need not be a pilot or in the aviation industry to learn some valuable lessons. Again, thank you for such great work. Liked and subbed.
Not sure I’ve ever seen so many failures attached to one incident. And the FO...I’ll keep quiet about him. I’ve encountered far too many of his type in my life.
Yeah, he didn't belong in a cockpit of any type. It literally makes no sense why people try and brag about stuff, especially if they are in a community like that where people who really DID do the stuff he was making up about himself are around. Those people WILL figure someone like him out almost immediately and warn everyone else, and career is over. And for what? It's honorable to retire as a Major. Why embellish even a silly detail like that, that can be so easily checked?
My friend was one of the 7 passengers who were killed. I still remember the controller's exact and haunting words, "Exit that runway immediately, sir!" It happened on my birthday 30 years ago. We just never know when when we will breathe our last.
At 13:49 - nice photo of N280US, operating as Flight 5. That was one of three 727s that literally lost an engine in flight. This happened in 1990 and the engine was found a day later in a field in Florida.
I got caught in quickly forming dense morning fog and got lost in Santa Ana. Called ground and asked for a car to come and get me near a marked building (I was well clear of a runway but otherwise no clue). The driver of the car brought me back to parking and then thanked ME.
I worked on the 9's and 80's as well as most Boeings and I'd rather work and fly on the 9's and 80's any day. The 777 is pretty nice to work on though........for a Boeing. I'd rather flip burgers than work on the Scarebuses.
You could tell he was former military just by reading the transcript as he confidently instructed the Captain on their position even though he had no idea where they were.
Wow, so many things gone wrong or missed. As soon as ground control was made aware that flight 1482 was lost on the ground, all flights should have been held until the location of flight 1482 was found.
I grew up not far from Detroit Metro and was in high school when this happened. Our high school choir had finished a performance and when we got back on the bus, the driver was listening to non-stop coverage of this crash on the radio.
Oh yes, I remember that one too. A hot and humid night. I was in bed and heard the coverage on TV. I asked my mother what was going on and she said there was a plane crash at Metro. The Free Press printed an Extra edition the next morning.
@@markbrown4039 The utter horror. The GM Proving Grounds in Milford has a Memorial Stone to serve as one of the two memorial sites for NW 255's victims; the other one is on Middlebelt near I-94. I could imagine myself having extreme thoughts on whether my life should be gambled when stepping into an aircraft.
A layout of the airport runways and taxiways would greatly improve understanding of what actually happened in this accident. Suggest future episodes include his layout with aircraft routing shown.
First Officer Schifferns is/was one of the worst pilots on planet Earth. All I can describe him as is as an egotistical and unprofessional liar who should never have been anywhere near a passenger aircraft. Although I'm glad he never flew again after this, he shouldn't have been in the cockpit that day in the first place.
Great job on this video, however, please try to display graphic ground taxi charts next time (from back then) to give a better visual understanding of this tragic snafu and allow the viewer to better visualize how this could even occur, instead of random airplane pictures👍
Appreciate what you do here, but this is difficult to understand without an overhead depiction of the airport area including taxiways and runways.. Perhaps you don't have the required media tools to pull it off?......would have been nice to see what the planes did and juxtaposed to what they were told to do with moving symbology on the airport diagram.....
Excellent point. All I saw and knew was a cockpit, fog with plane/tower/plane communications but I will say that this video put me in the same don't know position that the pilots were in.
Agreed! I tried looking up the airport diagram on Airnav but literally none of the taxiways are the same. I thought maybe they renamed/reorganized the airport (it looks confusing AF) but nope. Still trying to put a visual to the events...
No dude, this guy is just using his ancient version of MS flight sim and copy pasting from the FAA website. Don't expect gourmet food from a drive thru.
I was a Senior in High School which was (still is) 3 nautical miles from DTW and vividly remember how foggy it was that day. Sadly, wasn’t surprised to come home later on and find out two planes had collided. R.I.P. to the lost!
The day this happened I was nearby at Willow Run Airport. I had to delay taking off due to fog and below minimums for my departure runway. I thought the 727 was issued a T/O clearance with the required visibility for a legal T/O. Ultimately this goes on the DC-9 Captain. He didn't figure out in time that the F/O was a hooligan and relied on him. This accident was obviously a tragedy and led the way for much improved taxi way and runway markings. Too bad it took tombstones to implement the changes.
That's why the FAA is called the Tombstone Agency. I should say, this is true everywhere. I remember reading a story about some kids dying in a collapsing snow pile, in a small Canadian town. They thought they could safely burrow a snow-cave. All these risks are known and just not safe-guarded. Sometimes I think we are a naturally stupid species. How can we know the risks and not safe guard them.
I can usually navigate in the air but on the ground I often ask for turn by turn directions. Just like we get from ATC in the air. Better than this kind of mess or the Tenerief disaster!!
Fog - the ultimate enemy. We once took off from Rotterdam for London, diverted first to Birmingham then Manchester, finally ending up totally shattered at Glasgow (Prestwick). Both had the shudders for the evening. Old Skymaster.
There was also a Northwest Airlines crash at the same airport just a few years earlier. August 16, 1987. Northwest Flight 255. I will never ever forget. I have ties to this terrible day. It still brings tears to my eyes 34 years later. At the time, this was the 2nd worst airplane accident in US history, after the May 25, 1979, American Airlines Flight 191 crash in Chicago, with 273 fatalities. I was stationed in Tucson, Arizona, at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base and was a Senior Airmen. I served with the Englerts, and knew them for 3 and a half years. Karen was a Staff Sargent and was the NCO (non-commission officer) in charge of my shop. Charles was in our shop when I first arrived for duty, but later went into the reserves, attended college and worked for the USPS. They where also very good friends. My wife did daycare for Charles Jr. (14 months old) while they were at work. My wife and I house sat for them while they visited their parents back east. We were supposed to pick them up at the Tucson Arizona airport that night. It was a beautiful day as we waited for the time to go to the airport. That beautiful day turned into the worst day of my life when I got that phone call. Karen’s father called us and he was concerned that they were on that airplane. Of course, we went to the airport anyway. While waiting at the Tucson Airport, we called the airline to get any information that we could. They asked if we were relatives and I lied. I said that my wife was Karen’s sister. The airline said that they were listed as being on that flight. We still waited at the Airport for the connection flight to arrive in Tucson hoping for a miracle, but they didn’t get off the airplane. As we privately hugged and cried, a news station was filming. I’m so glad that they did not approach us. I had a copy of the local news story on VHS that a friend recorded for us, but it was destroyed in a house fire several years later. We went back to their home, but didn’t get much sleep that night. In the days that followed, I was ordered to turn over the house keys to the Air Force. I was given the solemn duty to accompany an Air Force Officer to the airport to pickup their parents so they could pack up their belongings. The Air Force Base held a memorial service. This happened 3 months to the day that my Air Force service was ending and I spent my remaining time in a mental fog. I went to the 34th annual memorial on August 16, 2021 at the crash site in Romulus, Michigan. It was my first. I talked with the first responders that found Cecilia and transported her in the ambulance. A video of the memorial is posted at the address below. I’m currently writing my autobiography and this will be a chapter in my book titled, “Fear is a liar!” And sub-titled, “Our Living Hell”. Facebook.com/FearIsALiarBook/ May God Bless you all!
Most people who are nervous of flying are frightened of take offs and landings plus of course being in the air. But it is just as dangerous whilst still on the runway in these powerful machines due to catalogues of error. The only optimism that comes from these tragedies is that hopefully more stringent measures become prevalent! RIP to the many people who have lost their lives in aircraft disasters all over the world!😇
I'm not a pilot I flew a little cessna 150 for a while in the seventies this is 2021 but after watching this video in reading the conversations on the screen and now The comments. I just can't help but cry
At the federal government level we referred to it as Detroit Metro (DTW). It was a bear convincing our own headquarters that is was in Romulus and not Detroit and stop to please please withholding City of Detroit Income Tax. We had to send them a copy of a map proving that Taylor, Allen Park, Melvindale and Dearborn were between DTW airport and Detroit.
@@mynintendogamingfeed5208 1987 for the City of Detroit taxes. It took six months of back and forth to get resolved - so 1988. Justice Department paperwork and on Immigration admission stamps the code was "DET", but the airport itself was DTW.
Fog, pilots unfamiliar with the airport layout, errant assumptions and confusing communications. -Lots of similarities with Tenerife, and an example of how several factors can create a disaster.
This was a very interesting & well done video. 👏🏻 A tragic loss of life due to heavy fog & poor visibility. Shouldn't the flights have been grounded until the fog lifted? it looked like the stationary aircraft was peeled back like a can of sardines. What a horrible impact. RIP to the deceased. Really nice touch adding the actual photographs. 👌
How exactly is "I had to eject twice and got shot down another time" bragging? Dude couldn't even look competent in his own bullshit story, much less reality.
Too bad that no one in either cockpit said, "Stop, Stop, STOP! We're staying right here until we figure out where we are and get instructions from GC!" And that no one in the tower said, "Stop, Stop, STOP ALL AIRCRAFT until we determine where your aircraft is located." (And then, as julosx suggested below, sent out a "Follow Me" car to sort things out...)
Just imagine the stories Schifferns could tell down at the firehouse. He was previously an astronaut ... he saved the shuttles Columbia and Challenger on the flights just prior to their famously flawed last ones. THIS, insecure fellas out there (and that's most'ya) is why women make great pilots. There is no place for machismo in a cockpit, now matter how hard you might try to squeeze it in. A shitstorm, this was - physically well within the capabilities of both pilots, but psychologically beyond them (well Schifferns, at least). When you have the time to admit that you don't know what's going on ... feckingwell admit it. Asking for help is a sign of responsibility, not a terrible condemnation of weakness.
A series of cascading failures on everyone involved caused this collision. If just One person in this whole scenario clearly communicated the totality of the circumstances this ending may been "Everyone Survives"...alas....no such ending😢. Assumptions...makes an a$$ out of You and "umption" (you not making an @$$ out of me).
you wonder how many near misses, caused by cascades of failures, happened, and by sheer luck or good piloting, the aircraft got by safely? You never hear about these. How many times were there two airplanes, for instance, on the same runway, taking off and landing where they miss each other by only a few feet? The only damage done is to underwear, if the passengers saw the incident. How many times did the pilots make a corrective action where the passengers never knew about it?
After the accident the captain of DC-9 never worked for airline and first officer of DC-9 later turned into firefighter. the airport later reinstalled signs and improve runway signs and visible paint and added ground radar and rebuilt oscar 4 taxiway
Just three years after the crash of NW Flight 255 from the same airport. The crew had no clue where they were at (they were almost in the grass) and really they should have never left the gate as the captain has the right to reject it until things clear up. This could have been another Tenerife but even with losing eight lives, this should have never happened. The ground controller should have never let flight 299 take off.
Good GOD. The recipe on this one. A pilot who hadn't been back in 6 years who didn't know the layout. An ex air force LIAR on probation. A badly faded sign on the runway. Low visibility. And a Tower controller who didn't issue his own warning in time. WHAT A MESS!
Swiss Cheese moment
Took the words out of my mouth!
Also 2 other pilots who took off at below the required visibility rate. Crazy.
I love our people in uniform but can't stand someone who lies about their military record as that puts a huge stain on those who served honorably.
Concatenation of errors and ill timing, like the 727s delayed departure.
As soon as the contoller was informed that they didn't know where they were, all operations on the runways should have been cancelled.
Methinks the tower should have sent a car with a big "Follow me" luminous sign as they sometimes do in fog.
Yep. I can't remember what airport it was, but one a/c was lost in low viz. Female irate controller trying to find out. They then issue a takeoff clearance to another a/c, but the Captains says, "negative, we're going to wait here until this is sorted" or words to that effect.
@Peter Irwin
Exactly 💯
Controller should have removed flight 1482 from the active runway . Who stops like that on a active runway ? Planes take off from their.
@@jjaus it's on rhode island..
I was wondering why the tower didn't call for a shutdown of runways when there was a lost aircraft on the ground. "I assumed he'd departed."
Exactly!
@baraxor. One would think that making an ass of you and me (assuming) would be something that ATCs are trained NOT THE EFF TO DO...but apparently assumptions are OK. Good thing we're only commenting on TH-cam videos and not controlling fast moving metal tubes full of human beings, Oh, wait...
Did the tower controller think that planes became airborne the instant they are cleared for takeoff? Could've said something like "If you're not already airborne, cancel takeoff clearance and abort."
If you're _assuming_ you know where the plane is... you don't know where the plane is. This should have been an immediate operational stop until the aircrafts' positions were verified.
A wise man once told me: "assumed" is just a fancy way of saying "ass"
A combination of errors by the DC-9 pilots, air traffic control and poor signage. It’s lucky that the DC-9 was on the side of the runway instead of the middle or it would’ve been much worse.
I thought the same thing. Sounded like a potential Tenerife, fog included.
8 dead are acceptable casualties? smh
@@jl3322 he did not say that did he ?
@@jl3322 10 dead to be precise
The ground controller made no mistakes. The tower didn't issue the warning. Kudos to the ground controller.
That was like a snowball rolling down a hill, a snowball of mistakes, growing bigger and bigger and bigger until a catastrophic avalanche was inevitable.
Like every plane crash, a plane never crashes for a single reason, it is always a snowball building up.
Well worded. Things often morph into bigger things and then snowball into something worse.
@@ifpstopmotions9720 Yep chain of events (and often mistakes)
@@muffs55mercury61
"The Swiss Cheese" example is what is called in aviation.
I always hate the "conclusions" on this one. I'm not saying the Northwest 1482 pilots didn't screw up horribly, but they pile so much weight on subjective and insubstantial things such as the FO's bs'ing the Captain over his military service, and yet gloss over the rather glaring things. That the airport was very poorly marked. So much so that the NTSB investigators trying to recreate the NW planes path got lost themselves and failed to make the critical turn. Without having to deal with the fog. That the Tower ATC lost track of NW 299 and didn't shut down takeoffs or communicate the runway incursion to the plane. I mean yes, the NW 1482 pilots were clearly lost and embarrassed. And yes neither was at the top of their A game. But they had reached out and communicated their situation to the Tower controllers. There was more than enough time for the airport to stop and get them out of there. We put a lot of weight and responsibility on pilots. which is fine when they are airborn. But on the ground planes are vast lumbering beasts with poor controls and poor visibility. It is up to the airport to manage and control them properly.
Well said.
@Dennis Wilson ok i will stop lying about my make-nices with the resident flight attendants. It never impresses anyway.
Sounds like you are a nephew of a pilot
Always cheaper to blame broke human beings.
Agreed!!! There was another crash/runway incursion in Italy in the 80's(Milan maybe???) where the whole thing could have been avoided if the airport bothered to maintain its signs/clearly marked the taxiways.
Once again, so many things that went wrong, any one of which would've stopped this sad event. They should have shut down everything once those pilots said they were lost... the takeoff controller fouled that up. So sad. Rest the souls of the dead. Nice video, Allec... :)
Agreed John.
I have been waiting to see this one. RIP to those who lost their lives. I don’t know about the rest of the subscribers here, but I miss flying on the DC-9’s and 727’s.
So true so true. They were lucky it wasn't a head on collision or they would have had a scenario like Tenerife.
Hawaiian still Flys DC-9s the new B717 version.
Lol.....flying ON them, I miss FLYING them........
Both great planes.
I live near YIP (charter/GA airport that used to be the big Detroit airport before DTW) and Kalitta Air still operates a handful of 727s for charters and cargo. Such a joy to see them climbing out over my house and especially hearing them - older jets have a lower, louder roar to them than the current turbofan ones
This channel is great. The re-creations are very well produced.
Copied in part from Flight Channel.
@@Capecodham I don't think so.
@@jakerson181 I saw this a year ago, not here.
@@Capecodham It may have seemed similar because they are after all using the same set of publicly available facts, transcripts of dialog between the plane and ATC and talking about the same incident but he doesn't copy other people's work. He does his own simulations. You need to think more carefully before you accuse someone of plagiarism or provide some evidence rather than just throwing out unsupported accusations.
@@jakerson181 plagiarism is not an issue as I don't think the copy was exactly the same, just similar. I would guess he viewed the other video and re-wrote in his own words.
Fireman Schifferns: I caught two falling babies and extinguished a volcano
😂
Lol i said the same thing in my head when he said he was now a firefighter. I wonder how many times hes had to jump from burning buildings with a baby in each arm and grandma on his back🙄
Pretty amazed the Fire Service accepted him with his track record.
@@berryknobberry2465 I like your version better
@@berryknobberry2465 The Air Force wanted to promote me to General, but I told em there's just too much politics at that ol' Pentagon.
When ground visibility is that poor how can runways stay active? Reminds me of Tenerife in the 70,s. If you can't see then you can't see!
Yup. Just like Tenerife!
And Linate in 2001
@@timmy841212 Well, except that in this case one pilot actually DID have takeoff clearance...
@@dx1450 True
One way is to have ground radar.
Another perfect storm of incompetence, lack of proper care and rotten circumstances...
A series of continuing failures including the airport management concerning signage and taxiway markings.
@@byronharano2391 enough about the signage, it's fixed already. Stop beating a dead horse.
@@CoIoneIPanic What?
@@CoIoneIPanic thank you for replying to this dead horse of a topic.
I feel sorry for Captain Lovelace...1st flight after a lengthy absence (The video didnt suggest any direct wrongdoing on the Captains part) and understandably reliant on the FO's help. Loosing 8 people clearly affected him badly and so he retired ☹ RIP to all whom perished.
Another example of how life can change in an instant :(
I remember the reporting on this crash SO clearly, even though I was just 7 years old. I talked people's ears off about "the DC-9 and the 727." I have been hoping that you would eventually bring the story to life with your incredible skills, Allec. Thank you so much.
Airport signage was inadequate at many airports for years. Around 2011 the FAA required updated markings. Much better now.
The FO was a real tool.
I remember seeing a lot of runway markings that were pretty sloppy. Comair 5191 put an end to that.
"The FO was a real tool"?
So he was useful eh? 🤣😂👍
@@davidross5593 fool
@@kirilmihaylov1934 No."Tool" works fine:
It's British slang for the male organ.
@@patagualianmostly7437 this is the first time I hear that
Well at least he can now state that he was ejected from NWA.
When you look at the post crash photos, he was very nearly ejected Headless -note how the wing sythed open the RHS cockpit position. at the window line. Tim Fidler.
He probably blamed it on everyone else while spewing expletives.
Makes you wonder how many other times a collection of mistakes narrowly avoided catastrophe but no one ever knew....
Wow. Great job, Alec. I’ll admit I almost jumped out of my seat when that aircraft came rolling down the runway (autocorrect wanted to print ‘highway’) and struck the other one. Even though there were errors on the pilots’ part (and ATC too), so thankful it wasn’t another Tenerife. I’m kind of saddened that neither pilot ever flew again.
👍Me too. Seeing that other aircraft on take off roll caught me by total surprise as well.
Felt bad for some of those passengers, just sitting there in their seats, waiting on the pilots for takeoff, and without warning, the wingtip of another airliner comes slicing through the fuselage and slices through a few of those passengers in the process.
I feel really bad for Flight 1482’s Captain. Imagine if you were off because you’re sick, and when you return, you trust in a smug and irresponsable man who leads you to have an accident which people died. It’s not your fault, but you’re co-responsible because you’re the Captain. The shame that poor man must have felt, that he finished his career, maybe with so much to give. Rest In Peace Captain Lovelace 🙏🏼😔
Flying hours mean nothing if you don't have enough taxiing hours in fog.
Imagine how hideous the view from the left side of the cabin was too see. No doubt some PTSD from that. Certainly many were decapitated or worse. Terrible. RIP to those who perished and to those who witnessed the carnage.
does the A stand for abstinence
I can't imagine something worse than being decapitated, at least it would have been over quickly.
I hadn't heard of this incursion before. Only thing I'm wondering is why the airport wasn't closed due to minima and I'm sure it would have been against NW SOPs as well.
Absolutely top shelf production. I really enjoy this channel. Your description of events are very concise and easy to understand. Thanks
Been watching your videos for six months now. Don't know how many Subs you had at the time, but you deserve all that you have ane more... your music is award-worthy
Another brilliant addition to your excellent videos, Allec. But what a bloody awful disaster. I was waiting for the catastrophe.
A diagram of the runways, taxiways and both planes paths would have helped. I had trouble following exactly what happened.
I took a look myself, the taxiways have been renamed since 1990.
Big Ed: I agree, hard for a layman to visualise what going on.
But the fear was growing all the while that they were getting completely lost and even possibly on an active runway, was self-evident.
Don't they keep a book showing all the taxiways and runways? I've got an old set of them at home.
Imagine if you were one of the pilots...
@@dx1450 Imagine there's GPS on board planes today.
"I can't see shit out there, well anyway, flaps 20..." 😶
That’s so damn funny✈️🤡
Flew the line for 25 years, every time someone would brag about their experience first thought was ...oh man, a four day with this guy.....and in general they were never that good.
As an ASAP ERC member, it was surprising how may airport signage and markings reports we would preside over, more than you would think. This is reminiscent of the United crew that was disoriented in Providence, RI, thankfully nobody was injured.
Out of all of the videos Joshua, this was especially well done.
Yesterday was the 30th anniversary of United Airlines flight 585 that crashed on approach to Colorado Springs Airport due to a rudder hardover that killed 25 people. The crash was forgotten due to the fact that it occurred on the same day as the beating of Rodney King. ✈
Alex did a video on this and another flight with the same problem. m.th-cam.com/video/v4td11eRf74/w-d-xo.html
@@bobjoe-bv2vc I know
Wow! Thanks.
I remember that day very well. It was bitterly cold. I was working a trip from IAD-DEN. Everyone was seriously upset and concerned. The pilot's were highly regarded and very experienced. I stayed away from the 737s for awhile after that. The Detroit accident never should have happened.
@@sarahalbers5555 damn 😞
New to your channel. What an exceptionally well done video. Thank you for your hard work and for taking the time to really dig out the details of these unfortunate events. I'm not a pilot but work in emergency management and these investigations hold value for me because in many cases they outline human/system failures. One need not be a pilot or in the aviation industry to learn some valuable lessons. Again, thank you for such great work. Liked and subbed.
I love what you are doing with this channel bro. Keep it up.
Great job on the video Allec👍👍
To all the victims I send my heartfelt sorrow. A terrible disaster that could have so easily been avoided.
Not sure I’ve ever seen so many failures attached to one incident. And the FO...I’ll keep quiet about him. I’ve encountered far too many of his type in my life.
Yeah, he didn't belong in a cockpit of any type. It literally makes no sense why people try and brag about stuff, especially if they are in a community like that where people who really DID do the stuff he was making up about himself are around. Those people WILL figure someone like him out almost immediately and warn everyone else, and career is over.
And for what? It's honorable to retire as a Major. Why embellish even a silly detail like that, that can be so easily checked?
@@andy_in_colorado7060 Indeed. Now he could be called Major Asshole.
My friend was one of the 7 passengers who were killed. I still remember the controller's exact and haunting words, "Exit that runway immediately, sir!" It happened on my birthday 30 years ago. We just never know when when we will breathe our last.
You remember the controller’s words? You were in the tower ? Or were you another pilot hearing that exit comment?
@@cindytartt4048 I think he means he's heard the CVR or ATC recordings
Allec Joshua Ibay, along with having the coolest middle name on the planet, you make a fine video my friend, i enjoy them.
Very well done. So many of these accidents were preventable. Pilot error was a big problem in aviation.
Great recreation, it’s spot on and to the detail.
I've actually been wondering when you would do a video on this. I'm so glad it came out, and it's another great video!
At 13:49 - nice photo of N280US, operating as Flight 5. That was one of three 727s that literally lost an engine in flight. This happened in 1990 and the engine was found a day later in a field in Florida.
That was a really great video
The detail and tributes to what is fact even in tragedy are amazing
I got caught in quickly forming dense morning fog and got lost in Santa Ana. Called ground and asked for a car to come and get me near a marked building (I was well clear of a runway but otherwise no clue). The driver of the car brought me back to parking and then thanked ME.
Why do I love MD-80’s so much?
Everyone does, although this is a DC-9
I worked on the 9's and 80's as well as most Boeings and I'd rather work and fly on the 9's and 80's any day. The 777 is pretty nice to work on though........for a Boeing. I'd rather flip burgers than work on the Scarebuses.
The MD 80 is a wonderful aircraft as was or is the MD 11.
Who doesn't
@@rogerhuber3133 737 Max.
You could tell he was former military just by reading the transcript as he confidently instructed the Captain on their position even though he had no idea where they were.
Wow, so many things gone wrong or missed. As soon as ground control was made aware that flight 1482 was lost on the ground, all flights should have been held until the location of flight 1482 was found.
I grew up not far from Detroit Metro and was in high school when this happened. Our high school choir had finished a performance and when we got back on the bus, the driver was listening to non-stop coverage of this crash on the radio.
Oof. Was the Bus on I-94 when the crash occurred?
@@mynintendogamingfeed5208 I think you're thinking about the Flight 255 crash in August 1987.
@@markbrown4039 That NW 255 aircraft crashed on Middlebelt and Wick. It then hit a train overpass bridge near I-94.
Oh yes, I remember that one too. A hot and humid night. I was in bed and heard the coverage on TV. I asked my mother what was going on and she said there was a plane crash at Metro. The Free Press printed an Extra edition the next morning.
@@markbrown4039 The utter horror. The GM Proving Grounds in Milford has a Memorial Stone to serve as one of the two memorial sites for NW 255's victims; the other one is on Middlebelt near I-94. I could imagine myself having extreme thoughts on whether my life should be gambled when stepping into an aircraft.
A layout of the airport runways and taxiways would greatly improve understanding of what actually happened in this accident. Suggest future episodes include his layout with aircraft routing shown.
Always look forward to each new vid very informative and detailed 👍
I always tear up when the music starts. RIP to the deceased.
the problem is he uses that music every time. Even when everyone is safe. It's ridiculous.
Very, Very, Very, Very Nice Video!
Basically Northwest Airlines’ old and new livery crashed each other to form the resulting current livery prior to its shut down of 2008
i really love the bowling Shoes 1990s-early 2000s livery
Nice
First Officer Schifferns is/was one of the worst pilots on planet Earth. All I can describe him as is as an egotistical and unprofessional liar who should never have been anywhere near a passenger aircraft. Although I'm glad he never flew again after this, he shouldn't have been in the cockpit that day in the first place.
Great job on this video, however, please try to display graphic ground taxi charts next time (from back then) to give a better visual understanding of this tragic snafu and allow the viewer to better visualize how this could even occur, instead of random airplane pictures👍
Excellent video as usual!
A 6 year medical leave?
I DID see that right!
Love this channel.☘️👍
great video!
Appreciate what you do here, but this is difficult to understand without an overhead depiction of the airport area including taxiways and runways.. Perhaps you don't have the required media tools to pull it off?......would have been nice to see what the planes did and juxtaposed to what they were told to do with moving symbology on the airport diagram.....
Excellent point.
All I saw and knew was a cockpit, fog with plane/tower/plane communications but I will say that this video put me in the same don't know position that the pilots were in.
Agreed! I tried looking up the airport diagram on Airnav but literally none of the taxiways are the same. I thought maybe they renamed/reorganized the airport (it looks confusing AF) but nope. Still trying to put a visual to the events...
No dude, this guy is just using his ancient version of MS flight sim and copy pasting from the FAA website. Don't expect gourmet food from a drive thru.
I was a Senior in High School which was (still is) 3 nautical miles from DTW and vividly remember how foggy it was that day. Sadly, wasn’t surprised to come home later on and find out two planes had collided.
R.I.P. to the lost!
I’m guessing the First Officer didn’t pass probation....
Good and perfect video! 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
RIP
To the seven passengers and one crew member of Northwest Airlines Flight 1482 who were killed in the 1990 Wayne County Airport runway collision
The day this happened I was nearby at Willow Run Airport. I had to delay taking off due to fog and below minimums for my departure runway. I thought the 727 was issued a T/O clearance with the required visibility for a legal T/O. Ultimately this goes on the DC-9 Captain. He didn't figure out in time that the F/O was a hooligan and relied on him. This accident was obviously a tragedy and led the way for much improved taxi way and runway markings. Too bad it took tombstones to implement the changes.
That's why the FAA is called the Tombstone Agency.
I should say, this is true everywhere. I remember reading a story about some kids dying in a collapsing snow pile, in a small Canadian town. They thought they could safely burrow a snow-cave. All these risks are known and just not safe-guarded. Sometimes I think we are a naturally stupid species. How can we know the risks and not safe guard them.
I can usually navigate in the air but on the ground I often ask for turn by turn directions. Just like we get from ATC in the air. Better than this kind of mess or the Tenerief disaster!!
Thank you for your bravery flight attendant Heidi Joost.
Fog - the ultimate enemy. We once took off from Rotterdam for London, diverted first to Birmingham then Manchester, finally ending up totally shattered at Glasgow (Prestwick). Both had the shudders for the evening. Old Skymaster.
that's neither here nor there.
Great. Video
Talk about a cocktail of mistakes, incredible.
never use cocktail to describe a bad thing again, ok?
@@CoIoneIPanic ?
Something similar happened with 2 IL 76 transports in siberia. Wing of one went through the cockpit of the other.
The First Officer can now brag that he managed to crash a plane that was at a stand still on the ground! Now that's an impressive achievement!
There was also a Northwest Airlines crash at the same airport just a few years earlier.
August 16, 1987.
Northwest Flight 255.
I will never ever forget. I have ties to this terrible day. It still brings tears to my eyes 34 years later. At the time, this was the 2nd worst airplane accident in US history, after the May 25, 1979, American Airlines Flight 191 crash in Chicago, with 273 fatalities. I was stationed in Tucson, Arizona, at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base and was a Senior Airmen. I served with the Englerts, and knew them for 3 and a half years. Karen was a Staff Sargent and was the NCO (non-commission officer) in charge of my shop. Charles was in our shop when I first arrived for duty, but later went into the reserves, attended college and worked for the USPS. They where also very good friends. My wife did daycare for Charles Jr. (14 months old) while they were at work. My wife and I house sat for them while they visited their parents back east. We were supposed to pick them up at the Tucson Arizona airport that night. It was a beautiful day as we waited for the time to go to the airport. That beautiful day turned into the worst day of my life when I got that phone call. Karen’s father called us and he was concerned that they were on that airplane. Of course, we went to the airport anyway. While waiting at the Tucson Airport, we called the airline to get any information that we could. They asked if we were relatives and I lied. I said that my wife was Karen’s sister. The airline said that they were listed as being on that flight. We still waited at the Airport for the connection flight to arrive in Tucson hoping for a miracle, but they didn’t get off the airplane. As we privately hugged and cried, a news station was filming. I’m so glad that they did not approach us. I had a copy of the local news story on VHS that a friend recorded for us, but it was destroyed in a house fire several years later. We went back to their home, but didn’t get much sleep that night. In the days that followed, I was ordered to turn over the house keys to the Air Force. I was given the solemn duty to accompany an Air Force Officer to the airport to pickup their parents so they could pack up their belongings. The Air Force Base held a memorial service. This happened 3 months to the day that my Air Force service was ending and I spent my remaining time in a mental fog.
I went to the 34th annual memorial on August 16, 2021 at the crash site in Romulus, Michigan. It was my first.
I talked with the first responders that found Cecilia and transported her in the ambulance.
A video of the memorial is posted at the address below.
I’m currently writing my autobiography and this will be a chapter in my book titled, “Fear is a liar!” And sub-titled, “Our Living Hell”.
Facebook.com/FearIsALiarBook/
May God Bless you all!
Was expecting the last line to be “FO Schiffren had his a** fired.”
Oof, thanx, you answered all the questions I had on this one... I am less peeved at the first officer now knowing he became a fire fighter... ♥️♥️♥️
Most people who are nervous of flying are frightened of take offs and landings plus of course being in the air. But it is just as dangerous whilst still on the runway in these powerful machines due to catalogues of error. The only optimism that comes from these tragedies is that hopefully more stringent measures become prevalent! RIP to the many people who have lost their lives in aircraft disasters all over the world!😇
one guy was making up stories and the other one had the wrong jacket on, what’s up with that
happens all the time but you wouldnt know it because these guys can fly their way out of any trouble.
Of all the events in this story, I would consider those the least consequential.
I'm not a pilot I flew a little cessna 150 for a while in the seventies this is 2021 but after watching this video in reading the conversations on the screen and now The comments.
I just can't help but cry
Like the way you did this accident because I'm currently watching the episode about on Season 15 of Air Disasters.
We call that Airport a variety of names, usually with Metro Airport. However, it's in Romulus.
Yep. Used to deliver parts to the GM plant there.
At the federal government level we referred to it as Detroit Metro (DTW). It was a bear convincing our own headquarters that is was in Romulus and not Detroit and stop to please please withholding City of Detroit Income Tax. We had to send them a copy of a map proving that Taylor, Allen Park, Melvindale and Dearborn were between DTW airport and Detroit.
@@wardfreeman7533 What year was this story...?
@@muffs55mercury61 Oh, wow. You used to deliver parts to the GM Proving Grounds in Milford?
@@mynintendogamingfeed5208 1987 for the City of Detroit taxes. It took six months of back and forth to get resolved - so 1988. Justice Department paperwork and on Immigration admission stamps the code was "DET", but the airport itself was DTW.
None of those involved in this incident should have been allowed anywhere near an airport.
Fog, pilots unfamiliar with the airport layout, errant assumptions and confusing communications. -Lots of similarities with Tenerife, and an example of how several factors can create a disaster.
This was one giant clusterf...
This was a very interesting & well done video. 👏🏻 A tragic loss of life due to heavy fog & poor visibility. Shouldn't the flights have been grounded until the fog lifted? it looked like the stationary aircraft was peeled back like a can of sardines. What a horrible impact. RIP to the deceased. Really nice touch adding the actual photographs. 👌
How exactly is "I had to eject twice and got shot down another time" bragging? Dude couldn't even look competent in his own bullshit story, much less reality.
Too bad that no one in either cockpit said, "Stop, Stop, STOP! We're staying right here until we figure out where we are and get instructions from GC!" And that no one in the tower said, "Stop, Stop, STOP ALL AIRCRAFT until we determine where your aircraft is located." (And then, as julosx suggested below, sent out a "Follow Me" car to sort things out...)
They did stop right away - on the runway.
Just imagine the stories Schifferns could tell down at the firehouse. He was previously an astronaut ... he saved the shuttles Columbia and Challenger on the flights just prior to their famously flawed last ones. THIS, insecure fellas out there (and that's most'ya) is why women make great pilots. There is no place for machismo in a cockpit, now matter how hard you might try to squeeze it in. A shitstorm, this was - physically well within the capabilities of both pilots, but psychologically beyond them (well Schifferns, at least). When you have the time to admit that you don't know what's going on ... feckingwell admit it. Asking for help is a sign of responsibility, not a terrible condemnation of weakness.
i was flying out of DTW back in the 1990's.
What the hell does this have to do with anything?
@@Capecodham Detroit Wayne Airport (DTW) is where the 1990 Wayne County Airport Runway Collision occurred. I could have been on that plane.
@@janibeg3247
If my Auntie had been a fella....she'd have been my Uncle.
(Still, I guess that's possible too, these days.)
@@janibeg3247 50 pigs C O U L D have been on that plane. Why is it so many people think the world revolves around them?
Many flight sites stop or halt filming without an explanation or cause after an incident.
Unacceptably sloppy all around! Excellent recreation.
A series of cascading failures on everyone involved caused this collision. If just One person in this whole scenario clearly communicated the totality of the circumstances this ending may been "Everyone Survives"...alas....no such ending😢. Assumptions...makes an a$$ out of You and "umption" (you not making an @$$ out of me).
WOW! What a BUNCH of blunders!
Did the FO lose his ATP or he simply couldn't bare to fly again?
fo? ATP?
@@Capecodham First officer. Airline transport pilot. T E Fidler
bear.. the bear's bare bum .. like y'all spelling. TEF
@@F_Tim1961 after a 16 hour shift mistakes like that happen. There are worse things to gripe about lol
@@F_Tim1961 Than why did he not say that in the first place?
Me falling asleep can wait for a few minutes now.
why delay dying in your sleep and make us all wait that much longer?
I don't know, man, I don't make the rules.
Allec you have not thought about making your first video of a helicopter accident, evening evening Senpeal on flight 91 from Cougar Helicopters
The blind leading the blind, What a shambles. RIP to the passengers.
you wonder how many near misses, caused by cascades of failures, happened, and by sheer luck or good piloting, the aircraft got by safely?
You never hear about these. How many times were there two airplanes, for instance, on the same runway, taking off and landing where they miss each other by only a few feet? The only damage done is to underwear, if the passengers saw the incident. How many times did the pilots make a corrective action where the passengers never knew about it?
After the accident the captain of DC-9 never worked for airline and first officer of DC-9 later turned into firefighter. the airport later reinstalled signs and improve runway signs and visible paint and added ground radar and rebuilt oscar 4 taxiway
had northwest introduced their 2nd-to-last livery at that time?
Yes they have. At least by 1989 if I am not mistaken.
Just three years after the crash of NW Flight 255 from the same airport. The crew had no clue where they were at (they were almost in the grass) and really they should have never left the gate as the captain has the right to reject it until things clear up. This could have been another Tenerife but even with losing eight lives, this should have never happened. The ground controller should have never let flight 299 take off.
Many factors caused this accident, the 1st officer, the controller and the runways signages. My thoughts to those killled