Breadboard Ends // Made the Right Way // Tongue and Groove Joint
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Breadboard Ends Made Right is sometimes difficult to achieve but in this video, I break it down for an easy to follow step by step method that allows you to achieve the same results. Check out this video and let me know what you think. Give me some comments and don't forget to subscribe for more great content to come.
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This was exactly the right video for what I wanted. Short, clear, to the point, and easy to understand. Thanks!
I recently did a cutting board using edge-joined oak panels for the middle and maple panels for the ends. The joinery was done with 1” tenons and finished with 1/4” dowels. Finished it up with butcher block conditioner and I was amazed at how great it looks.
I bet that did look good. Something else that would look awesome is walnut ends on a maple top with maple dowels but that’s for another day. Sounds like yours turned out fantastic and I’m so glad you were able to achieve the results you wanted!
Awesome video!
My favourite method X hardwood tops breadboard: sliding dovetail + 1 single dowel right into the centre of the breadboard.
Thanks for sharing!
Best video!!! Very cool thank you!!!!
Very nice. Your instructional videos are always clear, concise, and complete (pardon the alliteration). And, you are correct - folks are going to pick the table up by the end, so it better be structurally sound, and your methods seems very strong. Can't wait to try it myself.
Thank you! I appreciate the comment. You are so right. For some reason they are so drawn to that end of the table. They go to pick it up and boom it snaps.
@@rhwoodshop HaHa, you said "boom." BOOM!
I was wondering if you would catch that
Drew, You have it goin on Dude. I enjoy your how to vids and the calm and precise way you do things. Keep up the good work Drew.
Thank you very much I am so glad that you enjoyed my video. I try and make them as understandable as possible! Sounds like I am doing it right
Great video man! I really like how you break everything down to understand easily. The first kitchen table I made about a year ago I used pocket screws on my breadboard ends because that’s all I knew about at the time. I noticed today that the table is now splitting. I’m definitely using your technique on my current kitchen table build. Thanks!
This was my first attempt at breadboard ends for a table & benches. I used through tenons & tried used HeadLOK lag screws to pin from the ends. I pre-drilled the breadboards keeping the center hole just slightly smaller than the lag screw then made the others holes large enough so the lag screw actually ratttled in the hole. I drove the center in tight to pull everything in then drove the outer screws. This also provided a decorative touch since I used the same lag screws on the base made of 4x4s
Very good, have you seen it since you built it to see how it’s holding up for you?
Great video! Seems like I’m always recommending a video to help out someone who has never done breadboards. The problem I’ve had in finding one to recommend is that 99% of the ones I’ve watched leave out at least one important aspect, mainly the fact that the mortise (if it’s a stopped mortise) has to be wider than the tenon. Yours is one of the few that does talk about that, so your video will be my new go-to for someone to learn breadboards. In your video, you asked us to tell how we do breadboards. I use the domino method. I glue the dominoes to the table side, and I leave them unglued for the breadboard side. I also change my setting on my Domino to the loose setting when drilling the mortises on the breadboard side. Drives me nuts to see a video using the dominoes where they have to use a mallet to get their breadboard on. I’m not sure how they think the widened holes on the tenons will help with wood movement, when the wood doesn’t have any room to move 🤔 One thing I do that it didn’t look like you did is when I mark my holes on the tenons with a punch, I move my brad point bit about 1/32” toward the table from the punch mark to drill my hole. Then I sand one side of the bottom on my dowel. When I tap in my dowel, the sanded edge allows the dowel to go in the offset tenon hole. As I tap in that dowel, it draws the breadboard tighter against the table than it would if the holes were perfectly aligned. Thanks for the great video!!!
That’s awesome to hear. The reason why I did not do a draw tenon was because I clamped the breadboard end to the table as tight as it could possibly go before I drill my holes so whenever I went to put it back in place for final glue up, I reclamped the breadboard end to tap in my dowels. No need for a draw dowel in the tenon when you do that method. Typically a method like yours which is perfectly fine is if you do not clamp it in place. It just takes the place of the clamp. Awesome job!
Rock-n H Woodshop Makes perfect sense...thanks!
Keep it up girl. Sounds like you’re doing a fantastic job. Hope to see more of you in the comment section
Rock-n H Woodshop I just saw a reference to you somewhere today and thought I’d check out your TH-cam. I’m going to subscribe to your channel, so you probably will. I just saw that you’re also a moderator for the Kings’ group 😀
Nice work and a great video. 👍🏻🍻
Thank You!!! I really appreciate the comment
Good shit bro. Rounding out the bread ends was a slick idea.
I wish I could take the idea for myself but that was the clients decision because he didn’t want his customers to clip their hip on anything pointy. Thank You!!!
Good job Drew. Explained nicely.
Thank you Steve. Glad you liked it and thanks for the comment.
This is the video that made sense to me. I appreciate the fact that you explained it in layman's terms. I'm definitely subscribing!
One follow up question: How far apart would you recommend that those dowels be placed? I'm making a 40" wide farmhouse table with the breadboard ends. I'm using tongue and groove for the long boards with breadboard ends to keep them flat. It's 2x6 Douglas Fir that is kiln dried. I live in the desert northeast of Los Angeles. For the majority of the year, the humidity is less than 10% but in winter it can get above 50% on rainy days, though those don't happen very often. I have 5 dowels, evenly spaced, for each end in my plans.
Thank you very much I am glad that this video really helped. As far as the width apart, you really don’t have to worry about that, I would just say one dowel per plank that makes up your top. My top consisted of 6 inch wide planks and each one had a centered dowel on each tongue that was inserted into the breadboard end.
The integral tenon u use is very strong and the best way to make it. If it is hidden or visible on the sides is just personal preference.
I don't like the dowels in there. The best way in my opinion is to make a small bow in the end board. You glue it on with a 4 to 5 inches long glue seem in the middle and clamp it of cause. The glue will hold it tight in the middle and the bow will hold it tight on the ends.
Interesting! I like the idea.
ensen89 I've never heard of this, I'd love to hear more about it. What size panels (and what thickness) have you had success with this technique. How small of a bow are you talking about, and how do you cut it? I'm guessing it would need to be a very subtle but also very consistent curve to work.
@@jeremyspecce This is called spring joint or sprung joint. I don't know where I picked it up, but it was somewhere on youtube. I did not find the video I saw it first, but I found some others. It is also used in panel glue up to safe on time and clamps. In some situations you can used bowed clamping cauls to transfer force, where you can not reach with a clamp. To me this was a common technique.
th-cam.com/video/9zT1CoGzn2g/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/RSE84UKWTyI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/QC_8ndfkEaE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/M-vcCDzWUhk/w-d-xo.html
There is some debate how much bow there sould be. On the table shown in this video you should get away with something between a 16th and 32nd of an inch.
Those guys freehand the bow with a handplane or set the jointer up to cut it.
I think as a rule of thumb you can just take your board, put some thin stock under the ends and test how much bow you can strong, but comfortable clamp into it.
I can think about simple to make jigs for the router to cut it, but those videos up there show, that you don't really need it.
Let's say you want a 3/64 bow. you take a piece of mdf or plywood with a straight reference edge the same lenght as your board. take a flexible batten with nice, straight grain. Make it flush at the ends and put a nail or small block behind it at the ends. Bend the bow in it in the middle and pin nail it down all the lenght from the middle to both sides. Reinforce it from behind with hot glue or some thick epoxy. Flush trim it with the router and than flush trim the board to it. I picked that method up from a boat builder by the way. Have a nice weekend.
@@rhwoodshop you are welcome. See also my reply to jeremy :)
Great video!!!
I ready enjoy your video and the way you go through step by step, excellent job
Thank you Carl I really appreciate the great comment.
Haunched Tenons and drawboard pins. very time consuming.... I am going to try a long tenon and mortise next time. Thanks for sharing!
Very good instructions and method, thanks
Thank You!!! I am glad you liked it.
Great video on how to do it right, thank you Sir !!
Glad you liked it and I hope it really helps you in the future
Great Video!!
Brilliant content Drew, Really useful tips and information which you're always so good at delivering. Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to make and publish the video. It is greatly appreciated. All the best, from North London UK. 👍
Thank you so much Trev and I am really happy you enjoyed it.
Love the song selection. Great video. Thanks
One of my favorites for sure.
Great video Drew! I've never seen those drill bits before. Good tip!
I really like them! They work quite well! Good to hear from you Steve.
Yeah, I might grab a set of those. 👍🏻
Great video as always. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Michael so glad you liked it.
LOL those cats in the intro! Very cool build man, you have some great woodwork skills. NICE!
Thank you so much. I am glad you liked it and I appreciate the awesome comment.
@@rhwoodshop You are welcome my friend. Again, well done!
Drew where did you get your T-Square? Thing is amazing - is it a DoNo?
Great video!
That speed square is a one off tool from woodpeckers
Awesome video. Thanks for sharing those tips 👊🏼
You are very welcome and thank you for the awesome comment.
I love the rounded corners
Thank You!!! Client preference.
What are yours thoughts on using a sliding dovetail for breadboard ends?
I think that would work too but sliding dovetails require an immense amount of precision. If you take your time and make sure that your table top and breadboard end is completely flat before routing out your joinery, it can be done but everything must be in line. Tongue and groove joinery can give you a little bit of leeway
Drew excellent video and great info bud!!
Thanks so much Shaun. I am glad you liked it.
Regarding your tip on the flush trim saw by putting a piece of paper down... i want to recommend you try out the Suizan Flush Trim Saw that is 100% perfect cut without hurting the surface of your work. its incredible. no paper under it needed
Thank You!!! I will definitely check that out.
Great video man.
Thank you Darrin I appreciate the kind words.
Excellent video.
Thank You!!!
Great video as always. I have never made a bread board table, but It would seem to me that only using the dowels on one side would encourage cupping and create more stress, much like finishing only one side would do.
I am not exactly sure if it would promote that but it’s just like a commonsense thing that I am trying to apply to make sure that it stays as strong as possible. I’ve never experimented with one side before but I know people that have.
Can the tongue be installed on the breadboard vs the table. (Groove the table instead of breadboard )
subscribing just because of the use of the iron eagle soundtrack.
+Gilbert Lesperance lmao glad you liked it
I know you glued all the dowels but did you only glue around the hole in the tongue of the center board?
Are you able to apply polyurethane/ sealer on the table? Or would that restrict breadboard movement?
I do mine using the Domino and I offset my dowel holes just a little. One thing that helped me when doing Dominos, I glue all the Dominos into the table side and let dry completely. That way they are secure when attaching breadboard end. Then I only glue middle domino on breadboard side and I glue the top part of all the dowels.
Very nice. Good ideas
So, do you feel that the tongue and groove method in your video is as strong
at holding everything together (without any cracking) as cutting out 3 or 5 mortise and tenon joints?
I do think that tongue and groove increase the glue surface area to help all the table together better because it’s running down the entire length of the table but it is mainly there to help align the pieces together. Mortise and tenon will obviously do the same thing it just won’t have near the glue surface area. That’s all. I still think either way will help keep the table together as long as you have plenty of glue.
Now in regards to the breadboard end, glue is not involved I would just make sure that the mortise and tenon is a good size to allow for the joinery to stay together. It will also help prevent the tenon from sticking out past the breadboard end. Again in this case, you can use either method and it will work just fine.
@@rhwoodshop Thanks!!! Appreciate your insight!!!
good morning from Argentina!!!
Good morning! Hope you have a great weekend.
Being a novice, I have a question regarding wood movement on a table top. What is to stop the polyurethane from cracking from wood movement?
Well most finishes has a good amount of flexibility and since the movement is so subtle from day to day, the finish has the ability to adjust. Personally, I hate polyurethane as a finish because it looks too much like plastic. Not to mention, it does not hold up to abuse very well. After a while it gets to feel sticky all the time. If you have the time, try out precat lacquer or even post cat lacquer. It is super hard, stands up to a lot of abuse and it is flexible . Might give it a try. Thanks.
I know it's a contested subject but since the invention of air conditioning, the air quality and moisture content inside buildings doesn't change that much like it used to. So wood movement is not as big of a concern. One big reason you'll see tables Crack and shrink is because people build them out of construction lumber like 2x6s or 2x4s. Those are very wet,generally speaking, and not the best choice for quality furniture like a kitchen table. So the table is built in a "swollen"wet state and once put in your house it dries out gradually and shrinks. I don't disagree with this video at all nor building to Protect from wood movement but you'll notice that using hardwoods that are dry won't tend to move as much as home depot or lowes lumber. Just a tid bit for a novice wood worker. This is a great video. The samurai carpenter also talks of wood movement and how he deals with it or doesn't deal with it.
@@joshyingling You are right and I HIGHLY appreciate your explanation on this construction, but I did want to clarify something with these tables in the the video. When making tables that are shipped over the US, moisture content can be different from where I am to where these tables are going. It just so happened that these tables were going from OKC to a Houston restaurant that had a lot of garage bay doors that would be open when the days were nice and shut otherwise. This type of use would require this construction because opening the doors would eliminate the moisture control from the AC. From what I have been told these tables have moved a lot back and forth due to these changes in how the business operates.
You are completely right on how tables used to be made with wet wood, but you should always take into account how the tables will be used and where they are going to live. Never use wet wood for construction like this but never disregard the use and location either. Thank you so much Josh and keep up the great comments, my followers really appreciate it.
@@rhwoodshop thanks so much for the response. I'm building a large walnut countertop/ dinner table and was wondering what finish you recommend, i saw you replied to someone else about pre and post cat lacquer. I really like lacquer finishes but never used or heard of that type. Again. I'm not anti wood movement building, and I agree 100 percent with what you are saying. I'm just addressing the novice woodworker that might be terrified of it.
@@joshyingling I know and I appreciate it very much.
I have found that the Rubio Monaco works very well for the table top and is very easy to repair if needed. The Hickory table that I made a few episodes before this one, I get to see few times a year, and it is still doing great. The bottom half I spray with a pre-cat lacquer but if lacquer isn’t your thing then maybe try applying Rubio mono coat over everything. Easy to apply.
What about the strength of the breadboards, when someone tries to lift the table by the ends?
Thanks for the info Drew! 😃👍🏻👊🏻
You’re quite welcome Fred!
@1:01 what if you don’t have a table saw and only a skill saw or a multi tool? I’m only extending my cabinet by 1/2” to be able to close the doors since the drawers I bought don’t close when the drawers are inside?
It’s such a thin piece of bamboo already only 7/8”
How did you finish the the tables?
I haven't made anything with breadboard ends yet, but of all the videos on them I've watched, I like your method best.
When you ream the dowel holes in the tenons, could you use a larger drill bit to accomplish the same result?
+Autotech1 Well the trick is you want to ream them out from left to right. Reaming them from front to back will loosen the breadboard and away from the long boards. You want to keep them sucked up to the long boards all the time while only moving side to side
@@rhwoodshop OK, thanks. I was paying more attention to what you were saying than what you were doing. Watching that portion again I saw that you were enlarging the hole sideways while saying the reaming bits are good for when you want to widen a hole left to right or front to back, or all the way around. I was watching the video with closed captioning on so as not to wake up my wife with the sound, hence the paying attention to what you were saying and not what you were doing. Thanks for the clarification.
You are very welcome. Sometimes I forget to mention one or two things.
Is there a way to hide the dowels on the top? I don't like the aesthetic of the circles on the end boards.
Yeah, just don’t drill all the way through. Bang your dowels in from the bottom side but just drill deep enough that they don’t puncture
I would do a stoped tenon and shorten it on eatch side so it can expend and would use the dowells like you it’s the best way and glue only the center part and all the dowells 😜👍🏼 Did you put a laker on top ? Thx for answering !
Awesome. Actually I am probably going to do a Rubio finish on the top but I will spray the trestle bottom
Do you still place the dowel at the center, between two boards glued up, if using an even number of boards for the table top? Thanks for the advice!
No, just used dowels in the center of each board regardless of if it’s an even or an odd number. It just worked out that mine was an odd number. You don’t have to necessarily glue the center of the breadboard, you could glue just one end while the rest of it be unglued except for the dowels
I make mine with dowls than once in I use smaller dowls drilled through the larger dowl to lock it in.
I used a Kreg Jig to drill the holes out but I used outdoor 2.5" deck screws which are smaller than the Kreg screws and don't have the washer end. The kreg jig is set for 1.5" thick. This leaves a quarter inch of material between the top and the end of the screws. I put four on each board with two on each end. Then I cheated and overlapped about an inch and a half of The Trestle style legs over the breadboard which was 6 in wide so there's about 4 in to the end of the board from the leg. I did a center beam and it sticks forward about 3 in on either side and it's going to have a 1 by 2 through it just for looks. Instead of using 4 by 4 as I used 2 x 6 studs on everything. This kept the cost down to about $400 of lumber roughly instead of 22 a piece for 4x4s theyre 5 dollars.
Even though there's only one inch from that Center beam overhang by the tabletop it doesn't really matter because no one's going to be sticking their legs on the ends since they're just two benches for a picnic table so nobody should be kicking the ends accidentally. I also chamfered everything with a router
0:02 Meow is the time to build a cat tree.
🤣 you’re probably right.
You glued the dowels all the way through, and you didn’t step the dowel holes back a 1/16” to pull the breadboard end tighter? How will ends move it dowels are glued through the hole?
If you noticed, whenever the dowels were hammered through and even drilled through before putting in the dowels, the table was clamped breadboard end to breadboard end and pulled as tight as possible. So the 1/16 offset was not necessary.
I have been keeping track of this table because I get to see it pretty often and the movement has been working just fine. The dowels can give like a bow and arrow.
Great video thanks, I use dowels and would like to try out your method.
It definitely is a very strong method
Great vid man! What's this song called? I tried multiple phrases from it in google but couldn't seem to figure it out.
It’s not really a song that you can find very easily. It’s called old enough to rock ‘n’ roll and it was featured on in the movie Iron Eagle. I was able to get express written consent from Rainey Haynes, the artist who performed the song
@@rhwoodshop Great thanks! Definitely going to rock out to it and make a table lol
What kind of wood did u use?
Alder is featured in this video
I've never heard of pocket holes on a bread board end, sounds crazy. Did you do you dowels with any offset so they pull tighter? I've seen that done and it makes sense but it also makes me nervous that I'd blow something out trying to get the dowel in.
No I did not offset but in laying out the dowels I made sure that everything was clamped tight and my holes were only widened left to right not front to back so it will stay tight against the long boards but be able to move from side to side
Almost every video about breadboard ends they show finger tenons instead of one long tenon. When I asked why not one long tenon they mention wood movement. But doesn’t the wood move along the whole length of the board? Finger tenons just didn’t make sense to me, other than more work? What have you noticed about your method of using one long tenon, why not fingers? BTW, I made a large cherry table top with breadboard ends awhile ago using your method and it is still perfectly flat.
It’s still flat and shows evidence of movement but it’s doing its job like it should.
Im trying to figure out what happened at Workbench Con that cause this rejuvenation. I want to learn too
Lots of good info and it just jump started my engine.
The only thing I would have done different is offset the holes on the tongue 1/8 in to pull the bread board tight. But overall a great way to bread board ends.
That is an option but I clamped the whole assembly when doing the holes and pins so the offset wasn’t necessary .
Great video! I'm building a 10ft x 4ft red oak table right now and trying to decide which way to do the breadboards. I'm using 6" breadboards, would a 2" tenon be an okay depth? Thanks for your video, new subscriber here!
+HolleWood Furniture 2 inch might be pretty big. Mine were 6 inch and I did 1 inch tenons and it looked great and was strong with 3/8” dowels.
@@rhwoodshop thanks for the reply! I will definitely go with the 1" tenon. I was unsure of how much was needed. Appreciate the advice!
Where I live we get very big changes in relative humidity over the year so breadboard ends are just not a very good idea, even if you make them the right way. Half of the year, roughly, the breadboard ends are a little proud of the rest of the table, and half the year they are flush. I suppose that sealing the entire table top surface efficiently with varnish, when the fit is perfect, would help a lot, but I don't really like the thick varnish look and wax or oil does just not do the job well enough.
Multiple top tenons with a spot of glue in the middle of each tenon, fastened with dowels into the tenons through the top. I've never had a problem with splitting.
Do you oversize the mortise in the breadboard end for each tenon. Also where you live might not have such drastic humidity changes like where I do.
@@rhwoodshop I leave about 1/8 gap to each side of each tenon. I live in Florida so the humidity is quite high. I only put glue in the center of each tenon about 1/4 the length of the tenon width.
as far as exp and contr would it be possible to start a 48x72 tabletop with a 2x4 border mitred in the corners and 2x10's across center.
I would highly advise against this method unless you are making the table top out of plywood. If you are using solid panels there will be too much wood movement for the miters to stay together.
I actually did a build video on a modern dining table that had a plywood top. You can check that out for reference
wouldnt pocket screws in a tabletop prevent movement
Well, that is the one thing you don’t want to prevent. Trying to stop wood movement is a sure fire way to have your project fail in the future. Wood movement is going to occur whether you want it to or not. Trying to prevent it will ruin the project as it moves because your table top will eventually crack.
Hey man this is great thank you!!! I'm so glad to see thsi particular method from a pro. I've seen from others, that they make huge tongues/notches on the end of the table, with corresponding depressions in the breadboard, which increases the difficulty tremendously. Have you experienced ANY issues with the method you show in this video? If not, I'll do this when I make my future patio dining table and indoor coffee table. Cheers in advance!
Thank you. The only thing with this one is the BB end may protrude or sink in and won’t be flush with movement. Otherwise they work great.
Looked like you glued the dowels all the way through. Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of the larger whole and not allow movement?
Good observation but a lot of the glue gets scraped off from being put through a very snug hole. I have watched this table over the past year and a half and it is expanding and contracting perfectly. If you are concerned about glue getting into the oversized hole then hammer the dowel in almost all the way and then apply some glue then finish the dowel push through. Honestly though, it does not get a whole lot of glue in the hole.
That is a cool speed square, what type is it?
It is a 3” delve speed square from woodpeckers. It is a one time tool.
Do you glue the all dowels? Or just the center one?
All dowels are glued
I use thru tenons and dowels. Only way to do in in Massachusetts. The way weather changes up here
I bet. Mine is already showing signs of movement.
@@rhwoodshop yep. But will still keep doing it that way. I love thevway it looks when it comes together
I saw you in your truck in Oklahoma!!!
Oh yeah? Where are you from? Where did you see me?
Lots of dowels and only glue the doweled areas .... no cracking 👍😉
That’s me too glue all the dowels.
Before you drill the tenon hole, offset the tenon hole a 1/16 towards the shoulder.
I don’t need to because the breadboard end was clamped as tight as possible to the planks. The whole purpose of the offset is to pull the breadboard end to the table and I had already done that with the clamp.
If I was to have done the 1/16th offset, with my ends clamped in place, there would be nowhere for the breadboard end to go.
Hi Drew, share 👍👏👏👏💓
Thank You Giovanni. You rock dude.
@@rhwoodshop 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂💣
But will be using tenons until I can afford a Festool Domino!
Same here.
Why not just glue the tongue and groove instead of using dowels?
Thanks to J Yingling for his very informative comment!
Yes, it was great to know, but I did comment back with a further explanation of these tables. You should check it out too. Thank you!
I do mine like the way you do yours...
Awesome. I take it yours hold up well too
@@rhwoodshop so far so good
Pocket screws and biscuits. My stuff is more for college students or new graduates. Can really take a beating but it’s not fine furniture.
That’s understandable. Quick and dirty method for abuse works great too.
1/2” Dowels
That’s a good size dowel. These were 3/8”
Iron eagle music
When I fail it goes to the burn pile.😁😁😁😁😁😁
🤣 I have a friend that does that only it’s a dumpster at his work. 🤣 🤣
If I see someone using a domino or a pocket screw to make breadboard ends I look away.