Christ, I miss '70s-era Harlan... and I miss that kind of fast-talking, unrepentant public intellectual who could go on TV and say things guaranteed to piss off millions of people... while smoking a pipe!
He was a genius...and the 1% are in control who have more control the more they ensure people are dumb and "Non compos mentis" - thats beautiful and brilliant. Just like all of his work. Non compos mentis - DONT BE A FUCKING IDIOT - Learn about society, read and read more! OR play great computer games that make you think. Same thing. Otherwise the 1% own and rule us without any fear for the evil and exploitation they endorse.
Harlan nailed it when he said all of this escapist entertainment is just driving people apart "on an asymptotic curve." That was real insight, and it's been amplified 100 fold with the Internet and is becoming a real danger to society.
@@STho205 Harlan used to talk about L. Ron Hubbard telling his fellow fantasy writers that if they wanted to get really rich, They should start a religion. I think this happened in the late 1950s. So Harlan knew that Scientology was a load of bullshit.
I definitely remember the "Dianetics" commercials from the '80s (they were very cagey--it only showed a volcano and an announcer suggesting there were secrets in the book or something). Scientology was a "thing" for quite some time, and a lot of people knew from the beginning it was baloney.
"You would have found the rest of that sentence interesting." "I will get to hear it, I am certain." "Nah, forget it, I'm gonna keep that one for myself." I need to remember that one when someone interrupts me.
I adore Harlan Ellison's writing and personal wit and miss his presence in the world. But he seemed to have a wild hair up his arse about - well, something, on that program; and it had sweet FA to do about the film itself. He read a messianic message into "Close Encounters," a film whose approach to the concept of first contact w an alien civilization was more existential than religious. You should know something's amiss when you're getting schooled by Laraine Newman, an underrated comedian whose struggles w unscripted articulacy did not prevent her from grasping the essential point. A rare off-night in the life and career of a man whose intellectual rigor was bolstered, rather than dampened, by ethical conscientiousness and a lack of concern for politically-correct cultural dogmas. Sorely missed.
Because nobody interviews intellectuals anymore. Interviews have become either a circle-jerk for the rich and famous to talk about how much more important their lives are than anyone elses despite having nothing interesting to say. Or they have become dependent on individuals whose opinions lie on the fringe of acceptable behavior and ethics and are put on tv solely for shock value or spite-watching.
Simply put, people hosting shows and TV simply don't think it makes enough money (whether its true or not) and so they put celebrities on instead. If you get Will Smith on your show that will bring a lot more attention than some random book writer.
Our society has been dumbed down over these last few decades. There's also no money to be made via intelligent discussion. The only thing that matters is how do I make $$$ off of someone. It's not just talk shows, it's every single business and, even more depressingly, EVERY SINGLE PERSON values YOU on how much money they can get/make/steal from YOU.
Funny, incisive assessment of Close Encounters. And I’m with him on Star Wars all the way. The reference to “an intergalactic Ralph Nader” is very funny. The host, however, seems a little sluggish. Maybe it’s because he’s Canadian, eh?
I guess he would be called a shill, which is what we have more of them on every television show today, take your pick of any network and there will be a corporate talking bobble head. I can’t turn on the TV without my head exploding from either the commercials or the mindless bobble heads, it’s ridiculous.
I don;t think the host or Newman won anything. Basically they tuned out what he was saying, which was the people spend too much time seeking entertainment, not that entertainment is bad. Yeah sure, Ellison was a provocateur, but Close Encounters *is* simplistic, it's about magical sky beings coming down and some/one of us being chosen and ascending. 2001 is a different animal. Dave Bowman is anyman, not the chosen one. The film is arguably more a play on the Nietzschean idea of man becoming the Ûbermench and transcending his current state, and perhaps this whole other subtext about our relation to our tools/weapons, etc. It's perhaps a fine distinction for some, but I get what he's saying here.
U dont win any awards for being intelligent on the MSM....in fact you are rewarded for keeping the masses dumbed down and apolitical about the real horrors of modern life and the 1%.
I miss these kinds of talk shows so much. The closest I've heard is some of Joe Rogan's podcast, although he never really dives into heady topics like this. I wish there was a show on similar to Tom Snyder's. I miss this style of interview almost as much as I miss Mr Ellison.
"Nice little 1950's saucer flick." Not even the lamest 1950's sci-fi flicks were so crusted with sugar as E of the 3rd Kind. That movie will give you diabetes. And I loath Star Wars, never knew Harlan Ellison did. I find this out LITERATELY the day he dies.
@Your Personal Supernova Me too. I’m one of those rare birds who never got into the Star Wars sagas though I loved Star Trek, and while I enjoyed Close Encounters, I can agree it was quite saccharine.
It's a little surprising that HE didn't get the Relativistic angle behind the "but why didn't they age?" aspect of the Close Encounters climax. His other points are dead on, though, I think.
He's right Close Encounters of the 3rd Grade was one of the worst flicks ever. Oh God was good, certainly. I loved Star Wars because it is good escapism and sometimes that is what's needed.....can't reflect on heavy stuff 24/7. Harlan wrote a fine movie script for Asimov's I, Robot but Hollywood made that Will Smith POS instead....shame, shame on them.
Repent Harlequin (for Ellison was the harlequin) I'm impressed by Loranne Newman. She took on Harlan and won. *She won* Most people hide and say he's smart, too smart for me, I agree, therefore I am smart. He knows his talk schtick gathers lemmings behind him. I like Ellison's work, except "The Starlost", but Newman is right. Close Encounters a saucer flic, was not messianic, as The Day the Earth Stood Still was. The people captured in 1946 hadn't aged because they travelled near light speed to a place, say 15 light years away and then back. They mentioned the reason in the movie. *He was clueless* because he is a fantasy writer, not a science writer. Doesn't understand relativity AT ALL. She gave the host confidence to treat him as the Emperor without clothes in some good questioning. Ellison's MO on chat shows was to always poo poo other people's work, but to say his was much better. However he didn't sell a script between 1973 and --1992-- 1985* due to the way he botched The Starlost with that cheezy clueless producer and CTV filming it on a TV news set... then walked out on the production because he was mad and made them use his FU pen name Cornwainer Bird. He's a great writer. He's best in anthology setting. His version of City would have made a spectacular Outer Limits. His best series consulting work was for Babylon 5 where he set up JMS with his vision of Star Trek's universe in 1966. Dark Trek. *Thanks DB I forgot the bad blanket company TZ revival and Tales of the Darkside.
He did sell a few scripts in anthology setting in the 1980s: The Twilight Zone - Crazy as a Soup Sandwich - Gramma - One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty - Paladin of the Lost Hour - Shatterday Tales from the Darkside - Djinn, No Chaser
DB. Right you are. He did do the Canada anthology productions in the mid-late 80s. His scripts were always best for anthology shows. In 1980 he had not sold a script since "Phoenix Without Ashes" in 72 for that horrible little house on the prairie space ark show "The Starlost" which he pitched a series treatment as his take on Orphans of the Sky and For the World is Hollow for BBC sale. They had to beat that script out of him on cheapo-CTV in Toronto. People that had never even done episodic TV much less FX sci fi. They just tried to copy old Who in method. It was drek. He worked as a scab in the writers strike, worked around the rules, was supposed to deliver 8 scripts and advise as a consultant. He was very late with his first script and never worked on the next seven. He stormed out before filming. He got blackballed in Hollywood by producers after that and the Star Trek fights in 66. He never let that go. He's still fighting that from beyond the grave.
@@STho205 You are spot on...hes right and wrong about many things. Star wars DOES havea great powerful message (about left versus right) and you can slag it off and slag off many novels, sci fi, tv, and all sorts of crap...and at the same time, u can miss all the great messages that are in modern media...its just Harlan sees ABOVE what the msm is and it pisses him off. Like all intellectuals, u r right and wrong about everything at the same time. Thats what being incredibly enlightened is all about. You know and dont know at the same time. You can see the right and wrong....whereas plenty of people see the wrong and right about the things intellectuals espouse. Overall, hes right that people are too placid and apolitical about society...and at the same time, society could be a lot LOT worse.
@@STho205 Very interesting, HE does seem like a guy who has to have it his way, even if it hurts his career. Also interesting he seemed to make a buck from book signings at the end.
The Starlost was Ellison's fault? Eff no. That notion is as ridiculous as saying Newman and "The Host" had any valid points. Despite all your weak attempts to discredit him, he had a net worth greater than most writers working in Hollywood, and he didn't have to sell his soul to achieve that wealth.
I revere Ellison almost as much as I do Stephen King. If King is like a father, Ellison would be a grandfather. But unfortunately, Ellison, as he sometimes does, contradicts himself. He's absolutely in love with *2001: A Space Odyssey* which is just a story about benevolent aliens who are coming to save mankind. Why is that ok if Arthur C Clarke and Stanley Kubrick do it, but not Spielberg? Is it just because the ending to 'Close Encounters' was too warm and fuzzy for him? That seems to me a poor and arbitrary rubric.
Agreed. However, Ellison's views changed over time. His initial 2001: A Space Odyssey review in 1969 was rather negative. Perhaps his opinion about Close Encounters also changed.
I don't think those films can be put into the same category. Who says the aliens in 2001 were trying to help mankind? I don't think the movie said it. There was a sort of sterile air to 2001 which made the aliens feel like faceless, nameless actors like scientists experimenting on chimps. 2001 never explains itself so I think to assert that the aliens were benevolent is either overly presumptuous, naive, or just disingenuous. Do scientists experimenting on chimps do so with the chimps' best interests at heart?
Star Wars was literally about a Special Chosen One and monarchy saving us from the Big Bad. That was Harlan's big problem with Star Wars, it was another one of those messianic flicks where Special Chosen Ones, not ordinary people, are what saves the universe. The only redeeming part of Star Wars is Han Solo, who really is the Everyman character without whom the flick cannot exist.
@@TheEricleegreen No, I think it was probably more basic than that. Star Wars was Dune with all the complexity stripped out of it. Harlan loved Dune and even praised the Lynch movie several years later. I think he was pissed that Star Wars dumbed down the source material and then made a pile of gold off of it.
he is so sexy in this interview it is driving me crazy
me too Katherine me too
"Would you like me to attack any other of your sacred cows?" Harlan Ellison ROCKED.
Christ, I miss '70s-era Harlan... and I miss that kind of fast-talking, unrepentant public intellectual who could go on TV and say things guaranteed to piss off millions of people... while smoking a pipe!
DISCOGOTHTHEJAZZFAN your delusion is most saddening
It moves me deeply that you care.
Same here.
+JSayelBaldomero Yeah, whatever
He was a genius...and the 1% are in control who have more control the more they ensure people are dumb and "Non compos mentis" - thats beautiful and brilliant. Just like all of his work.
Non compos mentis - DONT BE A FUCKING IDIOT - Learn about society, read and read more! OR play great computer games that make you think. Same thing.
Otherwise the 1% own and rule us without any fear for the evil and exploitation they endorse.
If someone told me that Harlan Ellison was the man who coined today's overused phase "Zero fucks given" I'd believe it.
Harlan nailed it when he said all of this escapist entertainment is just driving people apart "on an asymptotic curve." That was real insight, and it's been amplified 100 fold with the Internet and is becoming a real danger to society.
wonder what he would say about social media and you tube
“Why do you deny Star Trek” “what is it, my lord????” 😂😂😂😂 the man was a gem.
“But *I* watch Starsky and Hutch!“
*Ellison moves his chair away by a few feet*
Clock this: Harlan was dissing Scientology in 1978. before most of the world had even heard of it.
Pete Trbovich. They were all over Hollywierd at this time. They had buildings, and prophets,and airport tracts to hand out at LAX. He lived in LA.
@@STho205 Yeah scientology is the perfect crystallization of Hollywood's belief system
@@STho205 Harlan used to talk about L. Ron Hubbard telling his fellow fantasy writers that if they wanted to get really rich, They should start a religion. I think this happened in the late 1950s. So Harlan knew that Scientology was a load of bullshit.
@@artdingo exactly...Harlan knew people like LRH due to their proximity in the Science Fiction/Fantasy arena
I definitely remember the "Dianetics" commercials from the '80s (they were very cagey--it only showed a volcano and an announcer suggesting there were secrets in the book or something). Scientology was a "thing" for quite some time, and a lot of people knew from the beginning it was baloney.
"You would have found the rest of that sentence interesting."
"I will get to hear it, I am certain."
"Nah, forget it, I'm gonna keep that one for myself."
I need to remember that one when someone interrupts me.
"You're leading me to an elitist statemant."
"You *are* an eliti-"
*"You bet your sweet ass."*
RIP Harlan Ellison.
..."down comes a big galactic chandelier..." I laughed out loud when he interjected that.
What Harlan says about "escapism" 40 years ago is still relevant today.
Oh, if anything 10x more so!
@@Velvet0Starship2013 50x more now. VR exists now.
I cannot imagine what Harlan would think of this crazy era of social media.
He passed away in 2018, so he knew all about social media.
I adore Harlan Ellison's writing and personal wit and miss his presence in the world. But he seemed to have a wild hair up his arse about - well, something, on that program; and it had sweet FA to do about the film itself. He read a messianic message into "Close Encounters," a film whose approach to the concept of first contact w an alien civilization was more existential than religious. You should know something's amiss when you're getting schooled by Laraine Newman, an underrated comedian whose struggles w unscripted articulacy did not prevent her from grasping the essential point. A rare off-night in the life and career of a man whose intellectual rigor was bolstered, rather than dampened, by ethical conscientiousness and a lack of concern for politically-correct cultural dogmas. Sorely missed.
6:52 This made me realize how fucking old Ralph Nader really is. Lol.
Close Encounters is one of my favourite movies but I appreciated a different perspective.
I loved his thoughts on Star Wars. And that's one of my favorite movies/series.
even to this day he’s right about people not handling problems
Thanks for all the 90 Minutes Live stuff.
Thanks for sharing these clips of Harlan!
Thanks for this.
Damn, I just want that outfit. Probably would look as slick though.
I wonder what harlen Ellison would think about FB, or twitter, we NOW live in a time where we all distance ourselves
Why are there so few good interviews these days?
Because nobody interviews intellectuals anymore. Interviews have become either a circle-jerk for the rich and famous to talk about how much more important their lives are than anyone elses despite having nothing interesting to say. Or they have become dependent on individuals whose opinions lie on the fringe of acceptable behavior and ethics and are put on tv solely for shock value or spite-watching.
because most of the world has been zombie-ized.
Simply put, people hosting shows and TV simply don't think it makes enough money (whether its true or not) and so they put celebrities on instead.
If you get Will Smith on your show that will bring a lot more attention than some random book writer.
They just wanna promote stuff
Our society has been dumbed down over these last few decades. There's also no money to be made via intelligent discussion. The only thing that matters is how do I make $$$ off of someone. It's not just talk shows, it's every single business and, even more depressingly, EVERY SINGLE PERSON values YOU on how much money they can get/make/steal from YOU.
Funny, incisive assessment of Close Encounters.
And I’m with him on Star Wars all the way.
The reference to “an intergalactic Ralph Nader” is very funny.
The host, however, seems a little sluggish.
Maybe it’s because he’s Canadian, eh?
I guess he would be called a shill, which is what we have more of them on every television show today, take your pick of any network and there will be a corporate talking bobble head. I can’t turn on the TV without my head exploding from either the commercials or the mindless bobble heads, it’s ridiculous.
13:06 - Asymptotic curve, indeed. Goodbye, Harlan.
I don;t think the host or Newman won anything. Basically they tuned out what he was saying, which was the people spend too much time seeking entertainment, not that entertainment is bad. Yeah sure, Ellison was a provocateur, but Close Encounters *is* simplistic, it's about magical sky beings coming down and some/one of us being chosen and ascending. 2001 is a different animal. Dave Bowman is anyman, not the chosen one. The film is arguably more a play on the Nietzschean idea of man becoming the Ûbermench and transcending his current state, and perhaps this whole other subtext about our relation to our tools/weapons, etc. It's perhaps a fine distinction for some, but I get what he's saying here.
U dont win any awards for being intelligent on the MSM....in fact you are rewarded for keeping the masses dumbed down and apolitical about the real horrors of modern life and the 1%.
I miss these kinds of talk shows so much. The closest I've heard is some of Joe Rogan's podcast, although he never really dives into heady topics like this. I wish there was a show on similar to Tom Snyder's. I miss this style of interview almost as much as I miss Mr Ellison.
I miss Tom Snyder's show too.
Ha! It looks like Flo and Eddie were there when he told that story.
They were.
I just came here for the Flo & Eddie mention . . .
for someone who hate starwars, he sure looks like luke skywalker
Harlan Ellison and Peter Gzowski in conversation, just inject it into my tired old veins
Which film did he say he saw 4 times? I couldn't tell, he spoke too fast!
Oh, God! (1977) www.imdb.com/title/tt0076489/combined
He did not like the Original Star Wars? What if he saw The Rise Of Skywalker?
@Turtle Anton
I’m sure he’s rolling over in his grave.
Forget Rise of Skywalker! What about attack of the clones, which was showing when he was still alive.
'Entertained to death'
Years later, this was a great film... perfect in every except the ending was a bit over done
And Harlan Ellison is the twin of Frankie Valli.
The moderator's toupee is slipping...
SHE LOOKS SO MEDICATED
I want him so bad
That wasn't 90 minutes...or live!
Ellison would have been great on the Joe Rogan Experience. The internet would have suited him so well.
"Nice little 1950's saucer flick." Not even the lamest 1950's sci-fi flicks were so crusted with sugar as E of the 3rd Kind. That movie will give you diabetes. And I loath Star Wars, never knew Harlan Ellison did. I find this out LITERATELY the day he dies.
@Your Personal Supernova
Me too. I’m one of those rare birds who never got into the Star Wars sagas though I loved Star Trek, and while I enjoyed Close Encounters, I can agree it was quite saccharine.
Good ol' Harlan got owned a bit here. haha
It's a little surprising that HE didn't get the Relativistic angle behind the "but why didn't they age?" aspect of the Close Encounters climax. His other points are dead on, though, I think.
Did he? Or did he just say something you happened to disagree with so you automatically took the host's side despite the weakness of his arguments?
He's right Close Encounters of the 3rd Grade was one of the worst flicks ever. Oh God was good, certainly. I loved Star Wars because it is good escapism and sometimes that is what's needed.....can't reflect on heavy stuff 24/7. Harlan wrote a fine movie script for Asimov's I, Robot but Hollywood made that Will Smith POS instead....shame, shame on them.
Ellison's 'I Robot" script is one of the best things I ever read in my life...and completely did justice to Asimov's actual story.
Repent Harlequin (for Ellison was the harlequin)
I'm impressed by Loranne Newman. She took on Harlan and won. *She won* Most people hide and say he's smart, too smart for me, I agree, therefore I am smart. He knows his talk schtick gathers lemmings behind him. I like Ellison's work, except "The Starlost", but Newman is right.
Close Encounters a saucer flic, was not messianic, as The Day the Earth Stood Still was. The people captured in 1946 hadn't aged because they travelled near light speed to a place, say 15 light years away and then back. They mentioned the reason in the movie. *He was clueless* because he is a fantasy writer, not a science writer. Doesn't understand relativity AT ALL.
She gave the host confidence to treat him as the Emperor without clothes in some good questioning. Ellison's MO on chat shows was to always poo poo other people's work, but to say his was much better. However he didn't sell a script between 1973 and --1992-- 1985* due to the way he botched The Starlost with that cheezy clueless producer and CTV filming it on a TV news set... then walked out on the production because he was mad and made them use his FU pen name Cornwainer Bird.
He's a great writer. He's best in anthology setting. His version of City would have made a spectacular Outer Limits. His best series consulting work was for Babylon 5 where he set up JMS with his vision of Star Trek's universe in 1966. Dark Trek.
*Thanks DB I forgot the bad blanket company TZ revival and Tales of the Darkside.
He did sell a few scripts in anthology setting in the 1980s:
The Twilight Zone
- Crazy as a Soup Sandwich
- Gramma
- One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty
- Paladin of the Lost Hour
- Shatterday
Tales from the Darkside
- Djinn, No Chaser
DB. Right you are. He did do the Canada anthology productions in the mid-late 80s. His scripts were always best for anthology shows. In 1980 he had not sold a script since "Phoenix Without Ashes" in 72 for that horrible little house on the prairie space ark show "The Starlost" which he pitched a series treatment as his take on Orphans of the Sky and For the World is Hollow for BBC sale. They had to beat that script out of him on cheapo-CTV in Toronto. People that had never even done episodic TV much less FX sci fi. They just tried to copy old Who in method. It was drek.
He worked as a scab in the writers strike, worked around the rules, was supposed to deliver 8 scripts and advise as a consultant. He was very late with his first script and never worked on the next seven. He stormed out before filming. He got blackballed in Hollywood by producers after that and the Star Trek fights in 66. He never let that go. He's still fighting that from beyond the grave.
@@STho205 You are spot on...hes right and wrong about many things. Star wars DOES havea great powerful message (about left versus right) and you can slag it off and slag off many novels, sci fi, tv, and all sorts of crap...and at the same time, u can miss all the great messages that are in modern media...its just Harlan sees ABOVE what the msm is and it pisses him off. Like all intellectuals, u r right and wrong about everything at the same time. Thats what being incredibly enlightened is all about. You know and dont know at the same time. You can see the right and wrong....whereas plenty of people see the wrong and right about the things intellectuals espouse.
Overall, hes right that people are too placid and apolitical about society...and at the same time, society could be a lot LOT worse.
@@STho205 Very interesting, HE does seem like a guy who has to have it his way, even if it hurts his career. Also interesting he seemed to make a buck from book signings at the end.
The Starlost was Ellison's fault? Eff no. That notion is as ridiculous as saying Newman and "The Host" had any valid points. Despite all your weak attempts to discredit him, he had a net worth greater than most writers working in Hollywood, and he didn't have to sell his soul to achieve that wealth.
I revere Ellison almost as much as I do Stephen King. If King is like a father, Ellison would be a grandfather.
But unfortunately, Ellison, as he sometimes does, contradicts himself. He's absolutely in love with *2001: A Space Odyssey* which is just a story about benevolent aliens who are coming to save mankind. Why is that ok if Arthur C Clarke and Stanley Kubrick do it, but not Spielberg? Is it just because the ending to 'Close Encounters' was too warm and fuzzy for him? That seems to me a poor and arbitrary rubric.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. Walt Whitman
Great quote, but still doesn't establish veracity. "Large" can still be wrong.
Agreed. However, Ellison's views changed over time. His initial 2001: A Space Odyssey review in 1969 was rather negative. Perhaps his opinion about Close Encounters also changed.
Fair point. Every critic reconsiders certain works.
I don't think those films can be put into the same category. Who says the aliens in 2001 were trying to help mankind? I don't think the movie said it. There was a sort of sterile air to 2001 which made the aliens feel like faceless, nameless actors like scientists experimenting on chimps. 2001 never explains itself so I think to assert that the aliens were benevolent is either overly presumptuous, naive, or just disingenuous. Do scientists experimenting on chimps do so with the chimps' best interests at heart?
Harlan is sure way off on CE3K and Star Wars for that matter.
Star Wars was literally about a Special Chosen One and monarchy saving us from the Big Bad. That was Harlan's big problem with Star Wars, it was another one of those messianic flicks where Special Chosen Ones, not ordinary people, are what saves the universe. The only redeeming part of Star Wars is Han Solo, who really is the Everyman character without whom the flick cannot exist.
@@TheEricleegreen No, I think it was probably more basic than that. Star Wars was Dune with all the complexity stripped out of it. Harlan loved Dune and even praised the Lynch movie several years later. I think he was pissed that Star Wars dumbed down the source material and then made a pile of gold off of it.