Why Busy Shops DIE!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2023
- Real CNC Machinist discuss mistakes that make other machine shops fail. For the full episode subscribe to our podcast channel! @titansofcncpodcast
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In the beginning it's definitely easy to want to say yes to anything because it seems crazy to say no to money... but if you say yes to the right jobs and stay in a certain line, you can grow and scale like crazy. Full episode is full of wisdom!👏
It’s great to have an abundance of work, job security. However, it gets to be disheartening when nearly every work order is late before it even makes it to the operator/machinist’s table. Saying ‘yes’ too much can sometimes do more harm than good, especially when a large contract is involved.
Saying Yes when when you know it can't be delivered on time doesn't make for a longstanding relationship.
That's one thing i hate about the shop i'm in. Just got a job that was due last June. Worse part is it was 4 small parts that i finished in 10 mins.
@@verakoo6187 That’s a real shame. I can resonate with you. Keep up the good work! I know you’re doing the best you can. 👊💥
Same here. My most overdue job was 1.5 years behind! I always wondered if that customer still needed that parts, after such a long time?
Seems like you need to look at growing the business to adapt to the throughput otherwise say no and keep the good work.
Here's what I have seen take down so many businesses.
1: They take on everything that walks in the door. Easy money, until they overload their work staff.
2: at some point, they start trying to regulate the inflow by up-pricing their work to weed out the cheapo customers and lame/low-value work.
3: As the pricing increases to reduce inflow they start to price themselves out of the smaller customer/small jobs markets and are only practical to use by large corperate type customers that have unlimited budgets to burn up.
4: At some point the demand for small job/low-value but needed work drives the customer base to start buying their own equipment and doing their own work.
5: At the end one or more of your former customers become adequately equipped and proficient enough to become a serious competitor slowly driving you out of business by being better and or more cost-effective to work with than you are.
This doesn't only apply to machine shops, but even in sheet metal, I can see how an overflow of work/wrong type of work can only serve to add to the logjam.
The company i work for is literally accepting every job they get . We do a good job solving them but some of it is not meant for our machines / equipments and take way to much time to do it. The company is on the edge of bankruptcy but the Owners are blinded by their own ego and dont listen to the machinists.
I love titans energy but its really nice seeing him just talking real instead of the over the top energy. Also I have a daughter im trying to teach to use simple tools now but, would love to have more female role models on channels like these.
I had a salesman that would base his pricing on whatever he can get, then it was up to us to make a profit or more usually make a loss out of it.
We tried to reform him and use technology to work out a price but he wouldnt be responsible for the production method and he wouldn't co-operate with the CAD/CAM department to help work put a price. He just liked to haggle and he nearly broke the company
That last point is the only point. I'm not likable. I've been told a bunch of times that I'm "abrasive", which I find weird since I'm honest, sincere, cordial, etc. I also have no filter between my brain and mouth, so whatever I think up tends to come out. And my "success" is exactly what you'd expect. It's a very fine line between being honestly likable and coming across as a con or disingenuous. You can't be fake about it. I've also noticed that the more successful you are, the more you can be a jerk. There's a line you cross where all of a sudden people give you extra leeway because they see you as some kind of "big dog" or whatever. Until you get to that point, work hard on cultivating a friendly personality because it will take you far.
Don't be too down on yourself - Titan is quite an exceptional person and would be inspirational in many avenues of work. I used to put out work with 8 sub contract machine shops - of course I'd have my preferences with 'go ahead' companies and bosses with bumper personalities ( I like machine tools!) but the truth was I wanted parts on time, to drawing spec at a fair price everytime... if the parts were late twice, I'd be looking to go elsewhere, if the parts were wrong, I'd be gone. MAKING TO SPEC is all I wanted - making too accurate or making / taking too fine a cut isn't necessary at all - all that tells me is perhaps it could be made quicker. Mid tolerance and just a bit finer than the minimum roughness ( to be sure) and nearly always on time and you'll have my full respect and repeat business as yours is a much harder business than mine.
@@TAH1712 Thanks for that.
hello 👋 how are you am one of your biggest fan in Southern Africa i just pray that one day i might pay you a visit, i learnt how to program through this channel and am still following you and learning more. Continue with the good wok 🥳
One of my coworkers used to work at a job shop and he was telling me about all of these ridiculous parts he used to do. There was one part that they had to do that was 15 feet long and they had to do it in a Haas VF3. So he said they had to machine a portion of the part then move it and keep re-indicating the part back in or drill tons of holes in sheet metal with high speed steel drills. He said that he quit that job a few months before that place went belly up. The last job that I had took on way too much work. So although they had the means to efficiently do some of the parts they took on way too much work so we had a 75% on time delivery rate which they then would point out and tell us that we weren’t working hard enough even though we were already working ourselves raged. Plus they never wanted to listen to us when we told them how to do something more efficiently. I talked to one of my coworkers who still works there and she said they were laying off a bunch of employees and they fired almost all of the upper management. Now I work for a really small shop that’s part of a huge corporation and my boss is super chill and I make super good money and the work is overall really easy
Wish i could get my boss to expand our customer base. We have 5 solid customers with a few others that don't order as often. If we had ten customers that ordered at the same rate throughout the year life would be a lot better all around.
I've had competitors pop up and everyone in the industry is telling me how I should be scared, they are taking all of the market, they just landed tons of contracts, they scaled from 2 to 5 to 10 to 20 cnc machines in the first year! Nobody can compete with their prices! Then a year later they are out of business and I'm bidding on their nice year old machinery at auction. Just because you are busy doesn't mean you are making money. You can have 20 million a year in sales but if it cost you $20,000,000.01 to produce, you're going under.
This is absolutely the same issue in injection moulding. Lean and mean using maximum levels of automation, know your limitations. Always learn and innovate.
probably the same for any business - know when to say no !
always to listening and watching to your podcast and the others videos...
thanks for more info😊
Your videos always bring enjoyment. Thanks for your creativity! 🥳👏
hit the nail on the head, it really is pretty simple...people buy from who they like. This is such a simple concept that is not discussed nearly enough on how to have the soft people skills.
Wait until you get the customers that want DoD and DARPA prototypes and require a CMM check. They asked me if I could machine copper/tungsten and I lied and said yes and I figured it out and I’ve been doing business with them ever since. Definitely a journey.
Iron sharpens iron!
I love these podcasts! Great job!
These are two different topics. Both are equally important! Sizing your jobs appropriately and being a person that people want to with.
Love the knowledge you share Titan.
I'm a toolmaker apprentice only 2 years on the job. I just got done competing in the national finals for toolmaking. I made it into top 4 of the country but yet I don't even get to do toolmaking at my job it's gone pure aerospace production with medical on the side. Every job that hits my desk is rushed and already late. Its killing the place and the workers by just taking too much on and doing things too 'cowboy'
Love these podcasts! Good work!
Being a machinist for Boeing has ruined the field for me for the 24/7/365 behind schedule conditions they were in. Worked there 10 years and saw us caught up one time and that was right after the covid lockdowns.
First company i worked for caught up to orders twice in the last century and it's entirely because they redefined what being on schedule means 😂
They had a lead time of 4 months at one point during the 2008 crisis
They had a lead time of 3 months for almost a whole year during the great depression
You guys rock ! Big help man!!!
I couldn't fathom trying to start a machine shop these days. The upfront cost to even be competitive is crazy. I've seen how much it costs just to buy tooling at preferred customer pricing, but you won't get that if you are a one or two person operation with a few machines.
The courage to turn work away is a definite! That customer that wants you to do mill, lathe & weld. It's do all three or none. I don't weld and I don't send out to get welding done. So, I have to tell them I'm out. Or payments @ Net 30 or maybe net 45. I had Siemans & GE want net 90 & 120. I have bills can't do that shit.
Podcast is a phenomenal idea. 10/10!
Oh you know im going to be checking out the pod casts
Spot on!
Great podcast
The company I work for is slowly expanding and advancing in what they make and sell. They're not swapping machines, they're adding machines. They expanded to a 3rd building this year with new product. What the company produces and sells there isn't a lot of. It's competitively priced. If a product makes it to a customer and that product isn't up to standards the company will take it back and replace it at no cost. They'll then go over the parts and find out where the fault was in the product and then make sure future sent products are up to quality expectations.
5:00 everyone listen, this is the most valuable part.
The problem is poor technique, poor methodology and poor pricing, anybody can be busy fools
Those guys are everywhere. 100% go but zero meaningful production. Also, the worst types to have a managers or bosses. Looking busy is more important than getting the work done right and on time.
I've found a fair price + ALWAYS DELIVERING ON TIME plus a CAN DO ATTITUDE with a smile but professional business approach earns a lot of respect - clients/customers are then very reluctant to pull away on price alone... Clients with deep pockets are clearly preferred.
You made the comment, "dealing with engineers", engineers are necessary but can they please stop wanting to add modifications to the product in the middle of production?
Metal 'On' can be tricky I'll grant you...
sometimes things like 6 sigma studies to identify bottlenecks and industrial engineers come in handy but they need good numbers and at ti9mes machinists can be territorial.
I have worked for and with a few places that had those types of professional workflow studies done. #1 bottleneck at everyone was get the damn management off the Effing shop floor and leave the crews to do their jobs as they see fit to do them.
It's funny now, but it was frustratingly sad at the time because every person who was on the production floor knew exactly where the bottlenecks were coming from before the pros even walked in the door.
I can't recall any bad employees, but I saw many who just got so frustrated with micromanaging that they did what they were told even when they knew it was going to make things worse for everyone just because it cost the company lots of time and money.
Does Titan still have an actual machine shop anymore or does he just focus on the academy?
There are days I curse my decision to become a machinist..... 😔
you gotta be likeable because heck knows a lot of the engineers aren't HAHA
Tyson everything is 100%, thus far in channel, here is what your shop needs to show , the viewers. 2nd chances in life, hire a recovering user!!,
Exactly. I have worked with more than a few people who went through hell and back and came out the other side as great people. The problem was those that were going into or were well into that hell that gave everyone that came out a bad name.
A man has to know his limitations...Customer service??
Overall, this is a highly informative and enjoyable video for anyone interested in fabrication and engineering. It showcases your talent and expertise while providing valuable insights and inspiration to fellow enthusiasts. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to watching more of your content in the future 👍👍👍
Our job shop ruined us.
nice
Fun Fact: Customers dont give a damn about what your facilities look like or what narratives you use to justify your over-the-top costs. We care about the quality of the work and how cost-effective your work is.
We want quality work at realistic prices or we will go elsewhere or just go get our own equipment and start doing the work ourselves and compete against you.