CR Methods An Intro to Old Cremona Violin Geometry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2021
- Introduces the actual geometry methods of Old Cremona violin making.
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Thank you very much. I've been looking for this kind of information for a while now. I'm new to violin making, and this is the best explanation I've been able to find.
I am not that good at all of the math aspects. I am seriously picky and I can't stand it when techniques/actions don't make sense.
Therefore, I truly appreciate this nice, long video on the actual geometry of a violin build and why it was done that way. Thank you so much.
This is so fascinating and helpful. Definitely gonna circe back to this a few times.
Fastenating, thank you very much. Looking forward to more, if possible.
Great job David, very interesting. I’ll have to watch this a few times to get everything.
Thank you, Berl. I'm glad to hear this.
Fascinating lecture and very well done.
What a well-made video!
But I get no sound at all .
Thank you very much for this interesting video. Could you tell us which program you used for the geometry ?
Soooo much more straightforward than Denis’ book which I detest.
Thanks. I hope these videos are helpful.
Thank you for this video. I do have a question Edgar Russ said the same thing about the arch of the plate being half the height of the ribs. My question is is that the outside height of the arch of the plates or is that the inside Arch of the plates?
Hi.
Like with all these 'rules', their is an aspect of maker choice in its application.
And, this particular rule is somewhat loose. Which is why I always say the plate height is 'nominally' 1/2 the sides. As a matter of historical fact, the old Cremona makers created a range of plate heights. The extremely high plates correspond to roughly 1/2 the sides including one or both edges. The very lowest plate heights roughly correspond to 1/2 the rib only, and in the extreme this is taken at the neck taper where the rib height is somewhat less.
I also hypothesize that in most cases this height would be set as a first step in working the board for a plate. The process of working the plate might easily lower this height by .5mm or so. I don't think the old makers much guarded against this or worried about it.
I beg to have your inside on this. A prominent luthier who has studied the Cremonese design in circles, claims that the soundpost should be placed a π (3.14mm) behind the bridge foot and subsequently from the F holes equidistant to the bass bar. Would you agree with this? In my experience, I noticed my luthier who does not agree with this, placed my sound post at exactly a π behind the bridge foot to get the best tonal results, without him knowing or having measured it. The east-west position however is not equidistant, I guess because the sp was not cut for that position, to attain the right tension the sp was pushed much closer to the f-hole than the bass-bar side.
Why would pi millimetres be correct, in any sense? Stradivari was in the ground decades before the millimetre was conceived.
Exactly. Such an idea is nonsense.
I can see geometry, of sorts, used to craft the shapes of the body, lesser in the scroll, but I wonder if “we” try to overlay geometry onto that may have just been drawn by rule and divider to create an aesthetically please form. To force geometric science onto something that just isn’t there. Did the old Cremona makers really use ratios, or was it all just coincidental? They may have just been using their predecessor’s designs, modifying them and then finding a way to draft it.
I do wonder, with regard to the f holes, if they trimmed them to adjust the sound at all, pre varnishing.
Yes! Just dividers and rule for a pleasing result. But that is geometry. By also having the habit of using proportions, they could repeat what they liked in a next instrument. Proportions also allowed them to modify what they wanted to improve in an intelligible and repeatable way.
Complex to talk about, but simple to do.
Sir, can you plzz provide all the proportions and geometrical recipes for drawing a scroll..????
This will come down the line. Hopefully in 2022.
Hi David, I myself have been trying for 14 years to make sense of what is described in Sacconi's book. I am a CAD draftsman by profession but I can't figure it out with the explanation in Sacconi's book. I myself went to Cremona to ask the old Francesco Bissolotti because Sacconi has small deviations even though you follow the explanation exactly, was my question to him. aah he said that we solve artistically. But would he have known!?
I have tried with a book and the search for the "The Golden Ratio" was going well, and iI found a lot of 1.618 ratios, but I want a Strad G or PG.
Now I try one with your explanation and I have a question. And would you like to set up your philosophy parametrically in AutoCAD?
My question is: Where is the center in height, to draw the center arc, in relation to the circles below? 5:00 min. That's not clear to me. Watched the whole video several times but don't get it. Please help me solve the riddle with you.
Sacconi cracked open the door. But he did not really carry it through all the way. He saw many historical instruments first hand, and keep great notes across his career. However, it is only recently with the aid of computers that we can have hundreds of historical instruments at our fingertips to examine geometerically.
Sacconi also inspired many others. Take a look at Roger Hargrave's articles. They're free on his website. He very much continued Sacconi's work of exposing the physical processes of the old making by directly observing instruments and artifacts.
My work builds from theirs and others. But, I've focused on understanding the geometry choices of the old Cremona tradition.
I apologize for the slowness, but I will keep sharing the conclusions from my work in greater and greater depth.
Любые чертежи когда это касается звука только основа. Есть обязательные размеры и есть рекомендации.
You mention that they "follow the build". They didn't push the circle back and correct it. Is there any proof that violins made with this slightly offset type, sounded better? I mean did Stradavari and Amati do that on purpose?
Why wouldn't you correct the anomoly, the slightly lower shoulder?
There is no reason to think they purposefully offset things. It is evidence of looseness in their physical control, not of hyper control.
Likewise, we can't say there is evidence that this is why their instruments have done better with performers. But, certainly it shows that perfect evenness and exact measure and symmetry are NOT necessary to obtain the top best results for players.
What has happened to the sound?
Me too .