It may have been helpful to discuss stories with multiple POV characters. This would have the effect of getting a further narrative distance from a character when they are not the current POV character.
Thanks for this concept, i semi paid attention for 6 minutes, mostly thinking "he's saying narrative distance a lot", then suddenly one line in my short story jumped out at me as inconsistent here. The line is where i had already corrected a head-hop. But i see another revision is necessary since the whole story hinges on not knowing the main thing the protagonist is thinking about. So in a sea of dry action sentences i suddenly directly describe a motivation. Well done you got through to my early morning pre coffee brain.
I have a mysterious character who is supposed to be unpredictable. I think her narrative is a bit far for awhile, but as the book continues it grows more and more close. (And as I write this, you say it in your video. Neat.) Her POV is also supposed to be more stereotypical, less...dimensional for a bit, for a lack of better words, as to really get you to empathize with the other character (its a Dual POV). I think it really drives in the affect shes having on them. Though as she's also a main character, I try to make sure she's not this mustache twirling villain and people can infer why shes doing certain things through her word choice, body language, or how she interacts with people shes close to. I like to say that its good if there's many ways a reader can interpret your character (in moderation?). Like one reader may think its A and one might think its B, and in a way, theyre both right.
Here's how I think of it. If I'm giving the reader John's POV, then I don't get to hide John's core motives. Otherwise, It's *not actually John's point of view.* It's just a camera on John. I'm allowed to hide parts of John's short-term strategies, but I'm not allowed to hide his motivating beliefs and backstory any longer than I logistically need to. The plan can have a twist, but his motivation can't *be* the twist.
I see your viewpoint and can get behind some of the ideas. However, I beg to differ. I think you can create more compelling characters when you allow them free reign. You can tap into your subconscious to have the characters veer if in different directions that weren't planned. That's so great about pantsing. You set up a scenario and create the character but then let them do what they want in that scenario. Don't reign them in to your expections 100%. Totally take this with a grain of salt.
This may be a silly question but is there a good way to make descriptions close enough that they don't become a word salad too tiring to get through for people to enjoy the plot? English isn't my first language so if my question makes no sense feel free to say and I can try to rephrase.
"Show, don't tell" The golden rule of storycraft... Yet isn't close narrative distance telling and not showing? Shouldn't you show the character doing something to communicate a facet of their character, rather than outright telling the reader something about the character using a close narrative distance?
So pretty much if you’re character his an owl in the post apocalypse. The description will go like this. I flew through the concrete jungle of steel and rubber with sharp air sticking out of the towering stone trees
That's a great suggestion! I think it can be a bit on the nose, though, and would benefit tremendously from the narrative not telling us the owl flew through the concrete jungle, but rather show us. Maybe something along the lines of: 'The wind ungulfs me, encompasses me, as I traverese through broken-apart structures made of wood and rock, and other, more complex human creations: sand made transparent stone with fire; harder stone made with various minerals, and clay, and sand, and gravel, and water, and fire; maleable stone made with remains of the deceased, its process greatly fueled by fire. There's a pattern alright. My sixth sense awakens. The sway of my feathers alerts me when obstacles approach. My thoughts almost get the best of me again. I swoop through a hoop: another man-made construction, a disc made of sap and other complex human materials made with -- you guessed it -- fire, I believe they call them 'tires'. Ironic, as they were far from tired. They moved at all times. Spun. Well, I guess they're tired now. All stacked upon each other like towers. Now that's a statement, alright. Agh, I've gotten too high. Barely missed that branch. Now that their old communities have been destroyed, mother nature has reclaimed the land -- and hold up. Too late. A flash passes my field of vision and I spiral downward, my balance interrupted. Shit, that hurts. Is my wing broken?!'' Oh, this is actually a good hook! Is it from a story of yours? I'm shamelessly asking if I can steal the idea. If you're already writing the story, I'll understand.
Came for the cat, stayed for the narrative distance.
The 30,000;foot distance being "as I close as I can get to ..." Made me laugh out loud 😂😂😂
It may have been helpful to discuss stories with multiple POV characters. This would have the effect of getting a further narrative distance from a character when they are not the current POV character.
Thanks for this concept, i semi paid attention for 6 minutes, mostly thinking "he's saying narrative distance a lot", then suddenly one line in my short story jumped out at me as inconsistent here. The line is where i had already corrected a head-hop. But i see another revision is necessary since the whole story hinges on not knowing the main thing the protagonist is thinking about. So in a sea of dry action sentences i suddenly directly describe a motivation. Well done you got through to my early morning pre coffee brain.
another kitty video back to back? bless
I have a mysterious character who is supposed to be unpredictable. I think her narrative is a bit far for awhile, but as the book continues it grows more and more close. (And as I write this, you say it in your video. Neat.)
Her POV is also supposed to be more stereotypical, less...dimensional for a bit, for a lack of better words, as to really get you to empathize with the other character (its a Dual POV). I think it really drives in the affect shes having on them. Though as she's also a main character, I try to make sure she's not this mustache twirling villain and people can infer why shes doing certain things through her word choice, body language, or how she interacts with people shes close to.
I like to say that its good if there's many ways a reader can interpret your character (in moderation?). Like one reader may think its A and one might think its B, and in a way, theyre both right.
Hi bud! It's always refreshing to hear your advice. Thank you!
You're Welcome!
Thanks for explaining! I discovered I was doing something correctly.
You're welcome!
We need a closer narrative distance to that cat, like with an origin story...
Here's how I think of it. If I'm giving the reader John's POV, then I don't get to hide John's core motives. Otherwise, It's *not actually John's point of view.* It's just a camera on John. I'm allowed to hide parts of John's short-term strategies, but I'm not allowed to hide his motivating beliefs and backstory any longer than I logistically need to. The plan can have a twist, but his motivation can't *be* the twist.
thanks for this😃
You're welcome!
My characters are like puppets, and I am the puppet master controlling the strings. That is how character writing works
I see your viewpoint and can get behind some of the ideas. However, I beg to differ. I think you can create more compelling characters when you allow them free reign. You can tap into your subconscious to have the characters veer if in different directions that weren't planned. That's so great about pantsing. You set up a scenario and create the character but then let them do what they want in that scenario. Don't reign them in to your expections 100%. Totally take this with a grain of salt.
This may be a silly question but is there a good way to make descriptions close enough that they don't become a word salad too tiring to get through for people to enjoy the plot?
English isn't my first language so if my question makes no sense feel free to say and I can try to rephrase.
"Show, don't tell" The golden rule of storycraft... Yet isn't close narrative distance telling and not showing? Shouldn't you show the character doing something to communicate a facet of their character, rather than outright telling the reader something about the character using a close narrative distance?
That was my first thought.
@@anthonyphan702yeah “show don’t tell” is a tricky little so and so
And not nearly as useful as many “story gurus” would have you believe
Show don't tell us like money or sex. If you have none it's very important. If you have enough then eh, it comes and goes.
So pretty much if you’re character his an owl in the post apocalypse. The description will go like this. I flew through the concrete jungle of steel and rubber with sharp air sticking out of the towering stone trees
That's a great suggestion! I think it can be a bit on the nose, though, and would benefit tremendously from the narrative not telling us the owl flew through the concrete jungle, but rather show us. Maybe something along the lines of:
'The wind ungulfs me, encompasses me, as I traverese through broken-apart structures made of wood and rock, and other, more complex human creations: sand made transparent stone with fire; harder stone made with various minerals, and clay, and sand, and gravel, and water, and fire; maleable stone made with remains of the deceased, its process greatly fueled by fire. There's a pattern alright. My sixth sense awakens. The sway of my feathers alerts me when obstacles approach. My thoughts almost get the best of me again. I swoop through a hoop: another man-made construction, a disc made of sap and other complex human materials made with -- you guessed it -- fire, I believe they call them 'tires'. Ironic, as they were far from tired. They moved at all times. Spun. Well, I guess they're tired now. All stacked upon each other like towers. Now that's a statement, alright. Agh, I've gotten too high. Barely missed that branch. Now that their old communities have been destroyed, mother nature has reclaimed the land -- and hold up. Too late. A flash passes my field of vision and I spiral downward, my balance interrupted. Shit, that hurts. Is my wing broken?!''
Oh, this is actually a good hook! Is it from a story of yours? I'm shamelessly asking if I can steal the idea. If you're already writing the story, I'll understand.
@ no just example but I think will be a lot better at being in the eyes of an owl