I did always feel that Cyclones were a better zoning unit to accompany tanks than Hellions. Since they can, you know, run in, run out way more reliably. Instead, put like 3 or 4 Hellbats around the tanks as a last line shield.
So, disruptor effectiveness is based on the micro. At Clem level, disruptor hits never. Byun maybe every other, 50%. Against me, disruptor would hit EVERY TIME, lol. At the pro-level cyclones might take up too much space like Winter said, but for the rest of us mortals, myself included, this spacing is a blessing [less effective aoe]. Mass cyclones it is.
@SaikouKarate maybe they can nerf explosion dmg/radius and either give general combat ability (more durability and base atk) or reduce cd so it's less of all or nothing unit.
WoL: How do you beat Protoss as Terran? --> Don't let them get to the mid-late game LotV: How do you beat Terran as Protoss? --> Don't let them get to the mid-late game
26:00 you can't say that viking meeting the warp prism was "good anticipation". The warp prism traveled from the other base, away from the vision range of any unit on the map. Obviously Byun saw that the warp prism was right-clicked and moving towards the mineral line at that very moment. Damn shame on this pro for cheating, but it's not surprising given the pressure to perform.
i feel like getting the suply depo reinforced from the orbital is not that bad from a pure macro perspective. yes, the mule does mine more, but that takes minerals away from the mineral patches, while the suply depo 'creates' value out of thin air/out of the orbital energy. also its instant. thoughts on this? i mean it probably doesnt make a big dofference in the great sceme of things. maybe if you use it a lot, it could give you like 1k extra minerals.
Anyone else think it would be a good idea to make disruptor novas manually detonatable? It would help them, but not if you don’t micro. Good middle-ground between current state and the auto-trigger state we had for a bit.
@@Zerachael1337 Yeah, I can see the possibility of the turret just sitting in the base, rotting away, as something unappealing, but just as a as a safety measure it seems worth it. Like in some of these games it could have saved multiple SCVs and orbital command energy by detecting the dark templar. I feel like there's more to the pros reasoning.
Indeed, just one turret can repel those early attacks and reveal dt's etc. and save more than the turrets worth, they're not that expensive and you might end up spamming them anyway if the game goes long.
seeing this gameplay just convinces me that the disruptor needs a redesign; i cant think of any other unit that is so micro intensive and high risk other than high templar.
lol, me seeing this gameplay convince that first game toss standing so long was by this stupid thing. 5 disruptors literally leaves no chance to bio attack, even when toss has 50 supply less
Even high Templar are easier to use. High Templar still do damage if they die after casting storm. Disruptors are absolutely awful to use, you can't just click an area and have it take damage, the novas are too slow, and you can't manually detonate them.
I think recall should take longer to move the units. At its current speed, some of the protoss units actually manage to make it back to their base. I would like recall to take 18-25 seconds so everything that was recalled has a chance to die.
@@faridmk3707 Well I'd like some other thing to be boosted, I mean it's no fun if every race is the same. About recall, it's still usable in some cases and don't need infrastructure. So vastly superior if you play mindgames where, say, prism is, compared to nydus. Really, the blink on hydralisks isn't good either (compared to Protoss version), maybe it needs a boost too... ;)
@@tondekoddar7837 Recall is just sad because most sc2 players remember it when it was good. So we instinctively recall at the sign of trouble, only to watch our entire recalled army die a painful death or, for those of us above diamond, to click back to the base only to find 1 unit made it home. Its good for strategic recalls when the opponent is not aware of it, but almost no one uses it as such. Its used by vast majority of players as an OH SHIT option, and for that purpose it is simply awful.
i feel like max pax played well and got punished for being protoss. terran has too many comeback mechanics and too many units that just absolutely break the matchup Marine Marauder GHOSTS even massing cyclones.... perhaps @WinterStarcraft. you could break down a few of these games and show us how protoss was supposed to win? your unit tierlist kind of backs up my claim that protoss just doesnt have units that hardcounter terran. like both terran and zerg have. or im dumb either could be the case
Are you referring to any particular map or just all the games? I don't mind trying to watch them back for the main points. Just FYI btw protoss has a 53% winrate against terran this past month at pro level. I think a lot of youtube commenters regarding balance, watch one game or even 1 map and decide that's somehow representative of balance when it absolutely isn't.
List of air unit changes I want to see: - +1 base range on Phoenixes and Mutualisks - Vikings changed from armored to light - Battlecruisers given bonus damage to light on their anti air attack
@@admiralmurphy1543 Gosh no... This would make Protoss unplayable in PvT - they need Stalker+Disruptor against Terran, they can't just add in lots of Phoenix late game. Also it would ruin PvP and make Phoenix battles even more regular. Same with Muta in ZvZ I don't see any need for the change... a BC bonus to light just isn't needed and wouldn't make Terran want to make BCs.
@@hivetech4903 an extra +1 range brings the Phoenix up to 6 base range and Anion pulse crystals are a +2, range upgrade that would bring them up to 8 range. That's one range less than the Viking as opposed to the two range difference they have now, not counting the fact that nobody researches Phoenix range since there's nothing the Phoenix is meant to kill. But that changes if Vikings are tagged as light because phoenixes have as much bonus damage vs. light units as their base damage. Which essentially translates to double damage vs light units. In the current live game the only air units considered light units are the Phoenix and the Mutalisk. The main reason nobody builds Phoenixes is often because there's nothing that they're meant to counter. Mutalisks might be built exactly once in an unconventional game and there's no Terran units that they deal any damage to. These changes would flip that on its head and might even end up making phoenixes a little too good at owning the skies. Which is where the BC comes in as it still won't take any bonus damage from the Phoenixes and the bonus damage to light will keep the Terran's Vikings safe while they do exactly what they do in the current live build: kill every single Protoss unit that's armored and flying (everything larger than a Phoenix). And as for why the Mutas get extra range too... Currently Phoenixes without the range upgrade only have one range more than the Mutalisk, this allows for Mutalisks being chased by small amounts of phoenixes to quickly turn around and potentially get a kill on one. This interaction doesn't need to be changed since Phoenixes are already a hard counter to Mutas. That's the only reason.
Agreed. The current balance is T>Z>P, and has been for a while. It's as if the SC community (pros, casters, regular Joes) have a weird, subconscious understanding that T being just slightly better than everyone else is balanced. It's THE balance, the norm, the status quo, the goal-state of the game. Well, the acknowledged, conscious, outspoken goal is every race having equal chances; but it's understood without saying that's probably unachievable. So in the meantime, if T is ever so slightly favored, and a Terran is rank 1 and wins most championships, all is good. The others should be able to put up a bit of a fight, of course, so that the victory of the status quo tastes even sweeter. We'll even shed a shallow tear for the other races if they're doing very poorly as of late. But as soon as T is not favored, and the champion of the world is not T, something is Very Wrong. The balance is off, and something must be done to remedy the situation.
its incredibly stupid that colossus can be hit by air units that can only attack other air units. they already suck bad enough with all the damage nerfs. its such a useless overpriced unit. i dont think ive seen colossus do anything of value in any of these pro matches since wings of liberty
@@hivetech4903 kinda weird that's a cheese you can do, fail and still be in any position to win nexus wasn't cancelled, only a couple of drones died, i think it's quite a fail.
Wtf are these cards before games? Those perks are active? If inst the case, WHY the f put those things? To complicate even more an already complicated game?
Love seeing byun do something, ANYTHING, different than microing a million marines.
I did always feel that Cyclones were a better zoning unit to accompany tanks than Hellions. Since they can, you know, run in, run out way more reliably. Instead, put like 3 or 4 Hellbats around the tanks as a last line shield.
Hellion only seems useful against zerglings
Sees title about Terran Mech
Starts video
Sees ByuN playing Terran
"Wait... wtf?"
55:10 all I can think is, "yeah, Protoss know all about armies that are just so fragile if you engage them the wrong way"
Winter: The Double-D's of Destruction!
Me: Ah, Double-D's; my greatest weakness.
Byun-believable set of games.
MaxPax must be playing archon mode with her0, you can tell by the prism micro xD
mech and protoss together regardless of who wins is always a treat to watch
Love your commentary, its so fun to watch your channel!
"Lose Yourself" reference 🔥💪
So, disruptor effectiveness is based on the micro. At Clem level, disruptor hits never. Byun maybe every other, 50%. Against me, disruptor would hit EVERY TIME, lol.
At the pro-level cyclones might take up too much space like Winter said, but for the rest of us mortals, myself included, this spacing is a blessing [less effective aoe]. Mass cyclones it is.
This is what’s known as terrible unit design
@SaikouKarate maybe they can nerf explosion dmg/radius and either give general combat ability (more durability and base atk) or reduce cd so it's less of all or nothing unit.
@@allhailderpfestor4839 meh just give us the reaver or redesign the disruptor to work similarly to that (autoattack projectile splash).
Even if it never hits anything, just the threat and zoning/forcing movement provides some value. But obviously you'd like it to hit.
WoL: How do you beat Protoss as Terran? --> Don't let them get to the mid-late game
LotV: How do you beat Terran as Protoss? --> Don't let them get to the mid-late game
Fiddle is OP, Hurdy gurdy buff when?
I always instaclick when I see the new Winter commentary... but then I'm sad cuz I have to wait another 24 hours for the next one.
Lmao - disruptors - the most dangerous forcefields
these guys have fingers made of lightspeed
I expect to be 'whelmed 😂
MaxPax: I'm Batman
"How are you still alive?"
"Why won't you die?"
"I will comply"
I respect that moment of silence at 14:15 for the amazing timing.
I lovethat Byun is just allergic to transitions.
"This is my strat for the game."
"Ok but what if he-"
"THIS IS MY STRAT FOR THE GAME!!!"
26:00 you can't say that viking meeting the warp prism was "good anticipation". The warp prism traveled from the other base, away from the vision range of any unit on the map. Obviously Byun saw that the warp prism was right-clicked and moving towards the mineral line at that very moment. Damn shame on this pro for cheating, but it's not surprising given the pressure to perform.
Your commentary is the best out there. GJ
9:05 You think these pranks on the rookies are getting out of hand?
i feel like getting the suply depo reinforced from the orbital is not that bad from a pure macro perspective. yes, the mule does mine more, but that takes minerals away from the mineral patches, while the suply depo 'creates' value out of thin air/out of the orbital energy. also its instant. thoughts on this? i mean it probably doesnt make a big dofference in the great sceme of things. maybe if you use it a lot, it could give you like 1k extra minerals.
When you get to game 5 the title is kind of a give-away.
17:35 There's your doppelganger, bro.
cyclones are stupid give my goliaths back...
Only if they can run and gun like the clones.
Anyone else think it would be a good idea to make disruptor novas manually detonatable? It would help them, but not if you don’t micro. Good middle-ground between current state and the auto-trigger state we had for a bit.
Winter! Casting SC2!.. Jimmy!, I have liked, and this day has gotten a little bit better!🎉😮
M&M&M&M The four M's: Marines, Marauders, Medevacs and More ghosts
Why do we not see missile turrets in the mineral line any more? Wouldn't they be really good to have against the Oracles and Prisms?
Static defense can't win games, just prevent you from losing. At least that's what I imagine the pros see it as, just a worse investment.
@@Zerachael1337 Yeah, I can see the possibility of the turret just sitting in the base, rotting away, as something unappealing, but just as a as a safety measure it seems worth it. Like in some of these games it could have saved multiple SCVs and orbital command energy by detecting the dark templar. I feel like there's more to the pros reasoning.
Indeed, just one turret can repel those early attacks and reveal dt's etc. and save more than the turrets worth, they're not that expensive and you might end up spamming them anyway if the game goes long.
seeing this gameplay just convinces me that the disruptor needs a redesign; i cant think of any other unit that is so micro intensive and high risk other than high templar.
lol, me seeing this gameplay convince that first game toss standing so long was by this stupid thing. 5 disruptors literally leaves no chance to bio attack, even when toss has 50 supply less
just swap them out with reavers
@@Hellafast2uDudeskill issue
@@laureloneiros1500 u saying this to Buyn?))) get your medicine dude
Even high Templar are easier to use. High Templar still do damage if they die after casting storm. Disruptors are absolutely awful to use, you can't just click an area and have it take damage, the novas are too slow, and you can't manually detonate them.
im glad he's gonna cast another one
Im glad that terran can get another spam unit that can deal with everything...
Someone sounds a little butt hurt...
It can't deal with everything, maxpax was expecting a bio transition and didn't get a proper cyclone response out for a lengthy amount of time.
I read :”maxpax stunned by new merch..” and was like, holy sh.. maxpax buy winters merch? And new ones?! Hahaha😂😂
So here’s to Winter, in his prime,
A star that shines through space and time,
A legend in the game we love,
Our guide, our teacher from above.
Who hooked up chatGPT to TH-cam comments?
@@laureloneiros1500 Well, I can just about manage that myself :D
So frustrating to see Colossi live with just a sliver of health bar.
Hurdy Gurdy eh?
Nice pick.
4
TEH
ALL
GO
RHYTHM
The only thing I learned was Max Pax cowering behind his over charge.
what a nice Mech and Cheese very tasty yum yum
The last match.. what did i even expect?
Spoilerino shielderino
I think recall should take longer to move the units. At its current speed, some of the protoss units actually manage to make it back to their base. I would like recall to take 18-25 seconds so everything that was recalled has a chance to die.
You really want protoss to be in the trash bottom tier of the pro meta
@@Twiixq I thought the sarcasm was obvious...recall is garbage, it takes too long and its vastly inferior to the nydus.
@@faridmk3707 Well I'd like some other thing to be boosted, I mean it's no fun if every race is the same. About recall, it's still usable in some cases and don't need infrastructure. So vastly superior if you play mindgames where, say, prism is, compared to nydus.
Really, the blink on hydralisks isn't good either (compared to Protoss version), maybe it needs a boost too... ;)
@@tondekoddar7837 Recall is just sad because most sc2 players remember it when it was good. So we instinctively recall at the sign of trouble, only to watch our entire recalled army die a painful death or, for those of us above diamond, to click back to the base only to find 1 unit made it home. Its good for strategic recalls when the opponent is not aware of it, but almost no one uses it as such. Its used by vast majority of players as an OH SHIT option, and for that purpose it is simply awful.
i feel like max pax played well and got punished for being protoss. terran has too many comeback mechanics and too many units that just absolutely break the matchup Marine Marauder GHOSTS even massing cyclones.... perhaps @WinterStarcraft. you could break down a few of these games and show us how protoss was supposed to win? your unit tierlist kind of backs up my claim that protoss just doesnt have units that hardcounter terran. like both terran and zerg have. or im dumb either could be the case
Are you referring to any particular map or just all the games?
I don't mind trying to watch them back for the main points.
Just FYI btw protoss has a 53% winrate against terran this past month at pro level.
I think a lot of youtube commenters regarding balance, watch one game or even 1 map and decide that's somehow representative of balance when it absolutely isn't.
I imagine winter doing six hours of pun preparal a week
Is Byun going to cause another nerf again?
23:35 why don’t the immortal shot kill the mine?
List of air unit changes I want to see:
- +1 base range on Phoenixes and Mutualisks
- Vikings changed from armored to light
- Battlecruisers given bonus damage to light on their anti air attack
Viking now can survive longer when facing to stalker, siege tank on tank mode, immortal, is that right
@@MindonHighD And Phoenixes are more of a viable Viking counter that the BC protects the Vikings from.
@@admiralmurphy1543 Gosh no... This would make Protoss unplayable in PvT - they need Stalker+Disruptor against Terran, they can't just add in lots of Phoenix late game. Also it would ruin PvP and make Phoenix battles even more regular. Same with Muta in ZvZ I don't see any need for the change... a BC bonus to light just isn't needed and wouldn't make Terran want to make BCs.
@@hivetech4903 an extra +1 range brings the Phoenix up to 6 base range and Anion pulse crystals are a +2, range upgrade that would bring them up to 8 range. That's one range less than the Viking as opposed to the two range difference they have now, not counting the fact that nobody researches Phoenix range since there's nothing the Phoenix is meant to kill.
But that changes if Vikings are tagged as light because phoenixes have as much bonus damage vs. light units as their base damage. Which essentially translates to double damage vs light units. In the current live game the only air units considered light units are the Phoenix and the Mutalisk.
The main reason nobody builds Phoenixes is often because there's nothing that they're meant to counter. Mutalisks might be built exactly once in an unconventional game and there's no Terran units that they deal any damage to.
These changes would flip that on its head and might even end up making phoenixes a little too good at owning the skies. Which is where the BC comes in as it still won't take any bonus damage from the Phoenixes and the bonus damage to light will keep the Terran's Vikings safe while they do exactly what they do in the current live build: kill every single Protoss unit that's armored and flying (everything larger than a Phoenix).
And as for why the Mutas get extra range too... Currently Phoenixes without the range upgrade only have one range more than the Mutalisk, this allows for Mutalisks being chased by small amounts of phoenixes to quickly turn around and potentially get a kill on one. This interaction doesn't need to be changed since Phoenixes are already a hard counter to Mutas. That's the only reason.
@@admiralmurphy1543 not need BC, viking have more range, can hit and run, marines can stand behind viking so phoenix can't approach
God, terran is by far the best race
I don't know about "by far", but it IS clear that Terran has the least weaknesses while keeping most of its advantages.
I love watching terran spanking protoss, however when the giant terran paddle comes for the zerg, I pray to Serral
Cheaper, stronger units than protoss for sure.
Agreed. The current balance is T>Z>P, and has been for a while. It's as if the SC community (pros, casters, regular Joes) have a weird, subconscious understanding that T being just slightly better than everyone else is balanced. It's THE balance, the norm, the status quo, the goal-state of the game.
Well, the acknowledged, conscious, outspoken goal is every race having equal chances; but it's understood without saying that's probably unachievable. So in the meantime, if T is ever so slightly favored, and a Terran is rank 1 and wins most championships, all is good. The others should be able to put up a bit of a fight, of course, so that the victory of the status quo tastes even sweeter. We'll even shed a shallow tear for the other races if they're doing very poorly as of late. But as soon as T is not favored, and the champion of the world is not T, something is Very Wrong. The balance is off, and something must be done to remedy the situation.
@@kathorsees it actually looks like Z is equal to both P and T yet T is clearly superior vs P
Hey Winter! What's your rank! Share with us mere mortals what your ranking at 😂
game 1 was painfull to watch. I never even played sc2 but I feel like I would rage against disruptors all the time.
Wow that last game! That is why I love Byun being random.
Petition to change the name to Dark's Shrine.
ByuN is a smooth criminal
If only there was a single terran unit that can't attack that would so dramatically affect the outcome of their build... 😂
yey
its incredibly stupid that colossus can be hit by air units that can only attack other air units. they already suck bad enough with all the damage nerfs. its such a useless overpriced unit. i dont think ive seen colossus do anything of value in any of these pro matches since wings of liberty
Nerf dam zerge, serial being winning for years after years
New meta
Why don't terrans ever build ravens waagh
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Terran is op
Cure’s card stats are too low
like
MaxPax anti social still eh
first!!!!!!
these pro players dont buy upgrades
byun had 2/2 for a good 4 minutes against 1/1
Never understand why disruptor switch when colosus are killing it on theeir own. Just make some anti viking
Soup
that last game isn't mech...it's cheese...stupid unit with too much range and damage combined for one unit...dumb
Haven't you've ever heard of mech&cheese?
Oh wait, I'm thinking of Has.
That's not what cheese means lol. The proxy bunker rush was cheese though.
@@hivetech4903 kinda weird that's a cheese you can do, fail and still be in any position to win
nexus wasn't cancelled, only a couple of drones died, i think it's quite a fail.
terran is so fukking broken , stim is so broken
🤡
Current PvT pro win-rates: 53% (Protoss favored) 😂
Wtf are these cards before games? Those perks are active? If inst the case, WHY the f put those things? To complicate even more an already complicated game?
They are jokes. Be at peace.
They're just fun jokes. They dont actually mean anything.
Ahh ok