McLaren engine failures - Making our own uprated components for McLaren V8 supercars
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ย. 2021
- We've been busy collecting McLaren engine parts so that we can get a deeper understanding of both the 3.8 and 4.0 V8 turbo units. In this video, we show you a variety of parts and explain some common failures, as well as introducing some of our brand new development components, which are being manufactured.
With replacement engine parts unavailable from McLaren, and new engines costing around £65,000, our aim is to offer a high-end repair service, together with a market-leading range of performance tuning packages.
REPerformance - the supercar tuners!
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A Master class in engine engineering, engineering optimisation and a dedicated Engineer putting his name, businee and reputation on improved designs and builds...Amazing and thank you!
Thank you!
I served my apprenticeship at Mirrlees Blackstone machining many components for marine and base load engines ,I spent some time machining pistons and spun cast liners up to 900mm diameter different engine discipline but with common traits .
I absolutely love the knowledge and dedication shown by yourselves
Thank you! Sounds like a very interesting career!
Fantastic video guys. I am really amazed that the likes of McLaren dont embrace and help you with parts for what you do given the high levels of knowledge and skill you guys apply to your work. Outstanding workmanship all round.
If we display good working practices, standards and quality then hopefully they will want to work with us moving forward. We are already independent approved for Audi, Lamborghini & Bentley.
If I ever owned an R8 or mclaren , I would only ever take it to REP performance, who else goes into this much effort to make sure the engine build is correct and suitable to power output. Incredible.
Thank you Matt! means alot!
I agree, I will never own such a car, so I shouldn't care, but nice to see what can be improved still!
Really enjoy these engine tech videos, best 'geeky' half hour on you tube. Fascinating oil management differences. Can't wait to see it all come together.
Thank you!!
Great stuff guys, real engineering.
I spent 7 years machining billet cranks and reverse engineering rare stuff and it was my favourite job, a real but satisfying challenge.
Thank you!!
Ricky you’re a legend ! Great to watch someone who actually knows their job inside out ! Keep up the great work
Thank you!
That piston is seriously trick I love the oil return how it lubricates everywhere wow! Engineering at its finest Ricky keep up the amazing work dude!
Thanks! Will do!
Great video Ricky. I've recently purchased an R8 and saw you name mentioned a few times in forums so glad you have a TH-cam channel. My car will definitely becoming to you for any work. I'm currently looking at my exhaust options for the V8 and trying to make my mind up. Keep up the great content
Thank you! Let us know if you need anything!
Really informative despite these cars being out of my price bracket. As an engineer I really appreciate your posts and find myself fascinated with learning about engines now. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!!
Soon this channel will be huge!
Keep the content coming Ricky
Thank you sir!
Great content, keep it up! It’s my favourite channel on TH-cam
Thank you!
So much interesting information given away during this video thankyou. Also a great insight into modern engine design.
Thank you!
as an American Gear Head this was amazing ! very informative, I've subscribed !
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice bro, that's some serious home work right there! 🚀
Very!
There’s an incredible and tantalising tip of the iceberg story here. The work that has gone into this project is exceptional - what a journey so far. Once you finally invoice your first MCL customer would love to see a documentary of the journey.
I don’t know what you mean Rory? We have built quite a few McLaren engines.
@@REPerformanceUK ahh - I’ve picked up wrong end of stick perhaps from the videos. I thought you were still sourcing valves and other components before being able to cover all the bases?
Nice oil drains on those pistons. On a related note, I found out some manufacturers removed the drain holes from the back of the ring grooves (IIRC it was emissions related) but that then causes oil residues to build up and jam the rings leading to excess oil consumption. They are utterly essential (as well as very neatly lubricating the gudgeon pin in yours).
Completely agree!
love the knowledge that comes from you, great stuff.
also happy the cameraman is back hahahahahaha
Thank you!
Love these vids. I like a bit of engine geekery! I can only stretch to a Clockwise K20 though!
Thank you! Great engine!
After watching your chat with Guy, i had to have a look at your channel... well impressed. subscribed :)
Thank you very much!!
This is amazing work
Thank you.
Top of the game as usual leading from the front. 👍
Thanks so much Steve!!
Great videos as always, wanted to ask what service manuals software you are using to help you put this engines together with proper instructions and torque settings. Thanks
That was really interesting! You are a very knowledgable young man. You Look like you've only just left school to me( I'm 68 lol)
Thank you.
Great stuff! Hope not to need your guys help but good to know you guys are there with the skills and the parts if I do!
Always here to help!
See you got Brad's piston fixture, super nice piece
It’s amazing! I love it!
👏👏👏👏👏 Brilliant Video.
Thank you!
Intresting stuff for sure .... tooling & devolopment cost thousands but everything can be improved ....
Yes, our focus is completely different as a tuner to a manufacturer building a mass produced road engine.
I love these videos
The attention to detail you put into these builds is off the charts. Proper engineering stuff
I take my hat of to you for this
Now, just a euro lottery win tonight and I'll be down next week with a green 675lt for you to work your magic on 😂
Thank you!
Single keeper is pretty common in jdm engines, Honda vtec for example, Lancer evo, etc etc
Very true, used to German engines!
Have you ever tried AGAP camshafts that’s who I’ve been using for one off smart car ones?
great stuff Ricky.. just a question. why do they not use a oil feed through the rod to small end ? and on to piston cooling
I don't like rifle drilled rods as in my opinion it bleeds oil pressure from the compression side of the big end bearing.
Ricky, just seen the MSL and Infinte guys at the event the other weekend had the head lift on their 1260 WHP 720s and i know in this video you have the upgraded head studs but they said Acids 720s they think they had the crank hub slipped as its very similar design to the S55 M3/4 engine so is there an option for that fix you know of or can it be sorted in a similar way to the S55 crank hub fix from say 'insane performance' and their 4 pin hub upgrade?
Here in the states you will find DLC on gun parts. Works very well .
😂😂😂
Good progress Ricky! What level of testing will you be undertaking on the first built engine to provide potential customers with a level of comfort, putting a reversed engineered engine in their pride and joy?
Thank you, so the answer to that would come down to the aims of the client. For a "standard" car we have stock of OEM parts or higher spec parts to rebuild the engine - like we do with the Gallardo restorations we do. In regard to high power then our development engine will always be pushed beyond where we would settle with a clients build or if a client wants to shoot for the moon like some of our race engines (TA, GT3 etc) then we would work with them in the same manner to make sure the analysis of the engine gives parameters and specifications above what is required. Basically computational analysis is your friend......
holy shit miester fella wat the wat the is u b doin? A slice of heaven perhaps lol,wow congrates man crazy cool cant wait to see the messes u get urself into.Your customers are lucky to have you fixin theyre toys lookin forward to ur next also new sub.11/15/2021
Thank you!
Conical valve springs used in the 30's Auto Unions and made a recent come back.
Yeah some engines use them still. Some aftermarket springs are conical….like everything it’s application.
i’d be happy with the rocker stand ;)
😂
Really enjoy these videos.
Since you've been designing replacement parts for everything, is it not worth going the extra step and designing a billet block?
I would love to, i just feel the cost would make it impossible to sell (at this point anyway).
@@REPerformanceUK yeah, big investment for someone to make. I've noticed a few put a hole in the block in the US. Would also be a way around the issues of gaskets and seals.
The videos are great, find them really interesting.
Single "keeper" is common on bike valves, at least every single one I've seen has been single collet groove and at least one of those I rebuilt revved to 18.5k (CBR250RR MC17). I've actually never seen multiple ones before but then again I've not taken apart any car engines let alone supercar engines!
On bikes, yes very! On cars not so much!
I use a 5mm ball bearing with a regular micrometer to measure similar shims on a Toyota 4age 20V
yes sir, that's what we have on our small Mitutoyo mic.
I would be interested to know the maths with respect to pin loads and compression v exhaust strokes. My instincts suggest it would be only fractionally different. by far the largest loads are dynamic acceleration and deceleration. I am surprised the piston pins are not tapered holes at their out ends. A lot of weight can be removed easily and of course every bit of weight off the piston ends helps the loads on the bottom end bolts too. Win win. Great video.
True. On a turbocharged car, at full power exhaust would be more than compression even. Which would be less than combustion by a significant margin.
Combustion stroke easily has the highest load as cylinder pressure can be anywhere to 200 bar.
Uprated pins is to try and stop pin flex, which stresses the pin bosses in the piston with the weakest side of the pin boss being underneath, so when the piston is unloaded at the top of the exhaust stroke that’s when the underside is under the highest load….just like rod bolts.
In a race engine I would use tapered pins with lightest weight as we would life the components, road engines I’ll sacrifice a bit of weight for longevity.
I’ve saved loads in the whole mass anyway.
this wet nikasil liner layout is the best ricardo could do to those mclaren cars. same goes for hans mezgers porsche 996 and 997 turbos and gt3s. i would NEVER buy a car with that alusil crap. only the wet nikasil liner is the real deal. i was very pleasantly surprised when i heard ricardo went that way. very well done!
Thank you!
Ahh some new DLC (Down Load Content) for the McLarren series of cars!
👍🏼
32:45 I hope you dont attach the torque plate with head bolts when the build calls for head studs since it will distort the block differently thus negating the whole process. You may not but I've seen plenty of high end shops overlook this.
No we always torque with the fixings we use in the build. I just had a few head bolts handy to hold the plate in place for the video. 👍🏼
A lot of work, time and money organising all this gear. One question, why do you need a torque plate with wet liners? And are the liners finished with a coating? Many thanks
We use torque plates as it stresses the block in the correct orientation so we can final hone/measure etc more accurately.
Great vid! A lot of investment there. 100% it will pay off. Isn't it always the small stuff that is a pain in the a#s
Agreed. lol
Shim system similar to bikes, as in my 1980 Laverda!
Yeah very popular on bikes.
Are piston liners a good candidate for DLC or TN coatings or is the combustion chamber too harsh of an environment?
Nickel ceramic, alusil and nikasil are all common cylinder wall coatings. We use anti friction coatings on piston skirts and some people anodise or coat piston tops to help with heat.
Does all this apply to the 720S also?
I thought I saw the soon to be released LT6, GM applied the DLC coating to the followers. Each cam lobe to follower contact point also has a dedicated oil squirter. The LT6 looks to be a not horrible effort by the yanks. Are there other manufactures that have the lock down on parts as McLaren does?
Not found one as tight as McLaren!
Hi guys - don't suppose you know the injector flow rates of the stock M838T? and what fuel pressure that is at? Putting a Haltech Nexus R5 on one and got some blanks to fill in trying to get it idling nicely.
I don’t but I probably have some I can test. Does the Haltech just have 1 value or is a 4d table like in Motec?
@@REPerformanceUK Hi! It can be a single value but can also be configured up to 4D.
I got some numbers from M-Engineering in USA who have reverse engineered the stock ECU. Obviously it’s far more complex that just flow and pressure in the OEM ECU.
I’m planning to run at about 50psi differential pressure with a 1:1 rising rate regulator.
I managed to get it idling but had to fudge the VE table to near 100% at 1000rpm and -10psi on MAP so suggested something is vastly wrong in my fuelling setup somewhere!
@@joelvermiglio2097 find me on IG Joel. Let’s have a more in depth chat. I’m not familiar with how to tune injector cals on Haltech but can’t be worse than MoTeC lol
Maybe shoot Kelford Cams a message on getting Camshafts/springs/retainers made up to suit. They took to the GR Yaris quite willingly. As for the single retainers the RNN14 GTI-R Pulsars ran a single groove retainer for the WRC homologated engine and were even willing to rev them to 8000rpm (even with the forked floating rockers that SR's love to spit out)
Also those "O" rings between the block and main girdle may be easier to find if you ask for quad or square rings, also for prototyping/being in a bind and needing a custom ring I buy some length of ring material, place it in the groove and cut it to length being extremely careful to cut as close to 90 degrees as possible and glue the ends together with Loctite 406. Have had hoses fail before the O ring even looked like leaking.
That’s a good idea on the square seal! I should probably look at getting some made!
Already on with the springs! 😉
you’d be surprised-cast cams might wear better than billet
Are these Piston liners press fit, like a large 15L diesel engine?
They are “press” fit but only because they are tight in the lower seals. Not like an interference fit on some engines.
Do you calc the stress in the rods and bolts?
The manufacturer does the stress analysis and just give us the figures. We have done the combustion pressure analysis using our tool and then work that in to our calcs for what is happening in the stock engine.
Oh great another Mclaren video.. where the r8'z at ... need the twin jets.. Where's your red one .. need the jets on them !
You should do jets and supercharger.. beasts mode
its in the workshop...few jobs to do on it now!
@@REPerformanceUK these Mclaren are getting your love need to ditch em and get on to the twin jets
JHEEEEZ
Very impressive. Huge £'s of investment!
Camera man needs a constant aperture zoom lens, or close up B Roll, i bet using Sony with 14mm? We had TI coatings on mountain bike forks for many years and secret Kashima coating on Fox stuff, and some car makers using PVD coating which is the similar and could get liners pistons and rings done to aid friction losses also? 3.8 a great engine and many high mileage cars with minimal issues like leaks etc but the paint will fall off before the engine explodes.
I’m not sure what camera he uses, I’ll ask!
Yeah that’s the trouble with piston coatings.
I’ve just done an engine where the skirt coating fell off and damaged the bores!
Would you guys do anything with a VR6 or would you pass on it
Not normally an engine we do but never say never, more about the client and their goals over the car.
Why not just use ZDDP in the oil to maintain the film strength of the oil?
Because the oil is not formulated to carry it. If you need additives to stop engine wear, you have an engine problem.....
Up your production
👍🏼
Good luck with cams lol. Cam core shortage has been a problem and it’s gotten a lot worse.
I know, it will probably have to be billets.
@@REPerformanceUK 5150? 5160? Tool steel? 8660? 9310? Four of any of them sounds incredibly expensive. If you had oem's you could at least re-grind the base lobe to be smaller and compensate with custom lash shims.
Almost seems like just developing a good CNC port strategy, or even getting custom heads cast would be the better investment, and then re-grind factory cams for more duration etc. Billet or cast heads with some provisions for pre chamber ignition, direct port water/methanol injection etc would be the real high end move. Change the port geometry, move the plug...
@@REPerformanceUK But hey I like my little pushrod motor. A356-t6 block with very thick custom sleeves, arp 1/2" stuff, aftermarket cast heads... few other tool steel components and it can go to about 10k, and still do daily driver street duty. Windage isn't a problem when you can make enough boost, bearing life even with soft aftermarket basic babbit is phenomenal. All about the details to make things work.
new vette engine has dlc on the finger followers, and other places, and has an oil jet to spray between the cam and finger
the grooves are there too spin the valve. less groves isnt necessary a negative
Exactly, it’s what helps keep the seats clean and why road engines typically are triple groove!
@@REPerformanceUK New Perfomonte down too single groove also
Noob question, how does the liner create a water tight seal at the bottom?
In the case of the McLaren there are 2 o-rings in the block that the liner seals against for the water jacket.
just a thought, you ever thought on getting a fully built engine online???
Yeah we will do more as we get the engine builds to certain steps!
@@REPerformanceUK was just thinking that stripping a fully built engine would give you an idea of block seals etc etc
A good point that might.of sent the nail home a little better is. DLC coating, has the lowest coefficient of friction, out of any substance known to man. And im not joking.
Thank you!
It would annoy me that the table is not level and the stud kit rolled .😟
It is level…but anything round will roll with inertia! 👍🏼
I wouldnt say the early followers on the mclaren engines are terrible, they are ok if oil is changed regularly and levels kept in check.
I agree Michael!!
@@REPerformanceUK there have been DLC follower failures too unfortunately
Like you say oil is the primary factor, poor lubrication rips coating off! But better to have than not!
@@REPerformanceUK i guess. Doesnt seem to have a massive improvement tho but yeh better than nothing. I was totally alarmed when i saw that this was even a thing.
Enjoyed that.. he knows what he's doing. Nice to know that there's no morons with adjustable spanners pretending to be automotive engineers in that workshop...
Thank you!
Shims under the bucket... Had to be the awkward ones to do.. and you need a special micrometer because it's a McLaren lol
sp2 vs sp3 ;-)
👍🏼
Why not order the parts from gintani out of Los Angeles? He has been developing some things for McLarens recently
He can’t get anything we can’t….
Maybe 11 means 1.1mm which is .044 like you said in the video....
I’ll have to rewatch what but you are referring too so will just say yes! Lol
Minute 8:05 LOL
@@scoupemaster no that’s the shim codes which refer to a size on our shim sheet.
One of the best down to earth knowledgeable youtube channels.... sadly I hate your logo...I just see a bird dancing
Yeah but your name is Gareth so your opinion is void.
My wife broke that news to me a while back....but she loves it! Imagine my feelings when it is a 2m tall illuminated light in my dyno cell! lol
@@REPerformanceUK keep the content coming. It's a great channel
Thank you
Hello Rick ,I take it that the d l c is also present on the rocker where the rocker pin passes through,so less friction applies on the rocker pin also…just asking……fantastic channel love it..unbelievable knowledge.
LOL... I thought you were going to LS swap a McLarren!
What’s an LS? 😜😜😜
cant you just put a power file on the spindle of an old micrometer and thin it till it does fit in the shim and keep it for that job alone , 30 quid and your flying ,,, Ill take one of those old engine rocker towers please ....
One of the cleverst things I ever saw was on an old scania engine , and they had a weep hole to the outside of the block from between the liners bottom o rings , only about a 3mm drilling , but it meant that if there was a sealing issue the coolant leaked out of the block and not into the oil ,,, but they had 3 seals at the bottom of the cylinder from memory ,,, just thought id mention it.
Yes I will need to either find a specific one or make one like you say.
@@REPerformanceUK a distance piece of a handy fixed length that you could fit inside the hollow would save a lot of turning on the mic too , although there could be a trade in accuracy , but it might be the way to go .
What is the benefit of not using rifle drilled rods?
I don’t like rifle drilled rods as they bleed oil pressure off the part of the rod under the most load.
@@REPerformanceUK Does not having increase wear on the wrist pin during normal driving?
very informative and interesting video! If you're giving away the Mclaren rocker stand, I'd happily receive it ;-)
I might do a give away on some cool old engine parts.
@@REPerformanceUK Awesome! I'm all ears 🙂
wow, Mclaren putting cast pistons and rods in their cars .....
Forged rods and pistons with cast ring lands....the issue with unscripted video! lol
You can spot the highest thinking British Engineers anywhere in the world.. their hair.
😂😂😂😂
Max bore on engines .....
Mclaren engines are based on Nissan R390 GT1 V8
Does this include all 3.8 and 4.0 models?
Heads are a close resemblance, bottom end I would say “loosely” based lol
So glad I didn't buy a used MP4-12C recently.
All supercars have hideous parts numbers.....they are great cars!
Buy one and you will see. They are in the main reliable. But not for the normal motorist. Dont forget they have been stress tested from factory and most of the time failures are due to owners lack of care and attention. Ive had mine over a year and done 5000 miles. Zero engine issues
*Nissan
🤷🏼♂️
Here's what I don't understand......you spend £250k on a car there should be an understanding that the engine should be defect free with at least 300% overload built in. Unacceptable. It's not like this engine is way different from any other piston engine out there........makes you want to do a Nissan VK for a fraction of the cost and that is built to max spec.
All engines have their weaknesses. This isn’t a video on if it’s a bad engine! They are great engines….more what to watch out for!
@@REPerformanceUK I know, friend....and I know that most companies are maxing out the margins to make money. Your parts are beautiful, by the way.
I like to say it this way in the diesel world. You've probably seen how a Deutz or a Gardner is built, that's everlast engineering. Then there's everybody else. I hope you put some Gardner style strength in these engines, and you have a new sub👍💪💪👍
All standard stuff. The only reason cam train wears is people leaving their engines idle to warm in the belief that they are saving them or somehow protecting them. Far to many old wives tales in this sport. Start it, drive it. It will save you all a fortune.
I think it’s better with modern day fluids, they are very effective at all temps compared to older lubricants.
I do agree with constant cold starts and not warming the car thoroughly degrades the oil, especially with fuel.
Keepers… Wrist Pins … A British Company following US terminology.. strange ..
Not really.
It's a mercedes engine, brought by McLaren this is why McLaren don't get involved with parts.
It’s nothing like a Mercedes’ engine! It’s Nissan based head and Ricardo designed bottom end.
Not a fan of McLaren cars. Their products are of substandard quality and then they want to charge an arm and a leg to repair it.
All Supercars cost an arm and a leg to repair! 😉
Can I come work for u for minimum wage and the learned skills and knowledge 😅😅😅😅
Not looking for an apprentice at the minute I’m afraid.
Weak rockers and weak rods
Rods aren’t weak I don’t think people just push them beyond boundaries!
an organized video would have been 15 minutes.
Where’s the fun in that? Lol
And this is why I'll never buy a McLaren because they do not support the old cars
Zero future in McLaren imho
The sooner the go bankrupt the better
Ferrari yes
Porsche yes
Lambo yes
I would disagree with the no future comment but yes they do need to work on their parts support!
could be good if they didnt try and be funny
Well i do have a past as failed stand up comic!! ;-)
That's what happens when u use a Nissan engine and modify it 😂 rubbish car,they are the most unreliable supercar,why would people buy one
Not the most unreliable and if you have driven one you would understand why, nothing drives like this platform!
You talk to much about nothing Instead more about what you’re building
I have no idea what you are listening too! 😂😂