The MYTH Of How We Got The OLD TESTAMENT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- When Jesus and the apostles are going around preaching, they quote from Hebrew Bible, about a quarter of the time, and the rest of the time they quote from the Septuagint. A few times they probably just translate out of their head. But it all carries the weight of the Word of God. You can witness to someone today, and quote them, John 3:16, and it may not be exactly like the one in the Bible in your lap, but you know what? It's the Word of God, and God's going to use it. So, we need to dispense with this mythological thinking, again, that we have about the transmission of the Bible. All of these things, all these English translations, all these ancient translations, they were the Word of God. That's how they were cited, that's the way they carried. It reflected the teaching and the mind of God that we have in Scripture. Check it out!
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I cannot believe Mike is gone...What a guy!
Praise God for faithful translators who can communicate clearly to those at different levels of comprehension. Really interesting video.
Have you compared the different versions and noticed that they contradict each other?
KJV only. Do say otherwise is to live in psychosis.
"a spirit" vs "spirit":
John 4:24
KJV - God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
ESV - God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
"Godhead" vs "divine being":
Acts 17:29
KJV - Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
ESV - Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
Jesus "is come in the flesh":
1 John 4:3
KJV - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
ESV - and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
Jesus is equal with God:
Philippians 2:6
KJV - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
ESV - who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
1 John 5:7-8
KJV - 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
ESV - 7 For there are three that testify:
8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
Repent:
Matthew 9:13
KJV - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
ESV - Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Believe "on Jesus":
John 6:47
KJV - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
ESV - Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
Jesus' blood covers sins:
Colossians 1:14
KJV - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
ESV - in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Do His commandments:
Revelation 22:14
KJV - Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
ESV - Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
God's Kingdom, in heaven:
Matthew 6:13
KJV - And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
ESV - And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Luke 11:2
KJV - And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
ESV - And he said to them, “When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come.
How can you live by every Word of God if you don't have every Word of God?
Luke 4:4
KJV - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
ESV - And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’”
If you read the ESV, search for the following words:
Godhead
dispensation
"only begotten"
and the following verses:
Matthew 12:47
Matthew 17:21
Matthew 18:11
Matthew 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Mark 16:9-20
Luke 4:8
Luke 17:36
Luke 23:17
John 5:4
John 7:53-8:11
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 23:9
Acts 24:7
Acts 28:29
Romans 13:9
Romans 16:24
1 Timothy 6:5
This list is incomplete, do your own research.
Jesus is the Son of God (not Joseph)
Luke 2:33
KJV - And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
ESV - And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him.
@@crutherfordmusic the bible was not written in English. Every interpretation outside of Hebrew and Greek is going to be slightly different. God bless and keep you. I am not in "psychosis" for not being KJV only. God help us all.
@@newcreationcoachingllc6491 You can't believe that two contradictory things are true at the same time.
They didn’t just reject the Septuagint.
They rejected the Messiah!
actually they rejected both.
the one rightfully so, the other,
unjustified to the fullest extent
@@xceptamanbbornagainnokingd5836 How is it rightfully so that rabbis eliminated prophecies of Jesus from the Old Testament, ignore half of what God told them (and disobey the other half), scrubbed the Messiah from their doctrine, and created a new religion of self-worship that is modern Judaism?
Maybe because their leaders had enough knowledge of the Bible that they saw through it?
We have 81 books in the Ethiopian Orthodox church, however that happened. I believe every single one of them. This, however, is wonderful information. It's encouraging.
So you're encouraged to do what?
@@AbelbenAdam
To study the Bible the way Dr. Heiser advices. I'm already reading the unseen realm. To not hang on this or that version of the Bible.
@@tempstep4058 Ok, that's the first step. Just don't check the temp on the second.
@@AbelbenAdam
I can't help it 😄
Vean también este video con Subtítulos en Español en nuestro canal de habla hispana
th-cam.com/video/JorzkdUTgfE/w-d-xo.html
Gracias Dr. Michael, disfruto mucho de sus videos, gracias por hacerlos extensivos al mundo hispano parlante :). Dios le bendiga
The stupidity of Christianity insults me.
@@ZENITHATLAS be careful wich Christians you are referring to:
Jewish Christian ore the Christians ore the vagabond Jews
@@ZENITHATLAS isreal was bread from free woman, bond woman and concubines
King Solomon was of David's sinfull act.
He had children from a 1000 wives
Who are isreal really ?
The Septuagint does not speak of a messiah.
Sad to see us Christians even divide ourselves amongst texts of the Word of God
mark harris
1 second ago
So, lets take John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
but
Others bibles' such as NIV has "shall not perish"
One has a condition, and the other is non conditional.
300 years ago people reading the KJV knew Jesus message in John 3:16 was not for them. Jesus message was for a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. A man under the law.
Act 15 Jerusalem council. of 51 A.D. states a gentile convert is not under the law but a Jewish convert is. This is why John 3:16 in the KJV has a condition.
@Offgrid Your comment is utter nonsense, which is why it's becoming more popular with the mainstream media and university professors who are secular atheists. There's no truth in what you said.
@@markharris1342 Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Jeremiah 16:19
King James Version
19 O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit
@Desire Of All Nations While I would disagree that the Bible can create "wildly differing worldviews", it is utter nonsense to claim that "no part of the Bible that is open to interpretation" - this is obviously untrue for the Bible and for any text. If you cannot interpret it, you actually cannot read it.
Where does it actually say that "the Bible is supposed to be allowed to speak for itself" and why should this be true? The two passages you referred to say no such thing.
Thank you for the great video Dr. Heiser! Fantastic teaching, I agree completely. :)
Why do you agree?
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Wow I really needed to hear this. Thank you!
I love my NLT. I understand it. I read it (all of it - Old and New Testament) after I was born again. I cherish the NLT. It put God’s Word in my heart (act of the Holy Spirit too of course) . But other versions are fine too. What I’m saying is whatever version you understand and that speaks to your heart is the version you need.
So, lets take John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
but
Others bibles' such as NIV has "shall not perish"
One has a condition, and the other is non conditional.
300 years ago people reading the KJV knew Jesus message in John 3:16 was not for them. Jesus message was for a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. A man under the law.
Act 15 Jerusalem council. of 51 A.D. states a gentile convert is not under the law but a Jewish convert is. This is why John 3:16 in the KJV has a condition.
@Mark OnTheBlueRidge KJB is the only INSPIRED and PRESERVED Word of God for English readers.
Ignore Judy, she appears self-righteous to her own demise. She has free-will, she's grown and of age, if the sheep wants to be a fool let her be a fool.
Think of it this way, she's the type where God or whoever says something to her, but she will hear whatever how she wants to egotistically hear it. You can tell this by her very short and blunt responses "whatever works for you", and "there you have it". She appears bitchy via her words. Due to her very short and blunt responses, she clearly can't give two shits about you. So what do you do? Reciprocate it back at her by dusting off your feet and departing from her.
Don't hurt yourself over the fools, brother.
I dont believe he is suggesting that. Would you be happy to use the utterly appalling 'Passion bible'?
@@arcticwarrior3499 Rubbish. The KJB only club seems to be cultish.
@@arcticwarrior3499
You claim a Bible is the Word of God.
That means you are another fool.
The Word of God is FLESH, not any Bible.
John chapter 1
Revelation chapter 19
None of the Bibles are the Word of God....
👍👍
8 minutes of great info
8 minutes to read some hilarious comments as well.
A lot of commenters who think they are legitimate Christ-followers, who will be sadly surprised when they draw their last breath, @@abashedsanctimony154 .
He is always loaded and delivers the text's justice
@@IndianaJoe0321 so...you can see their......hearts?
This is the kind of info that I find not only interesting but helpful. There are arguments about “the” MT, TR, and KJV among my friends right now, and I keep scratching my head to ask why they don’t like NT readings, but won’t touch the LXX/MT issue, and then refuse to dive deeper into textual history and criticism.
I think the answer is simple.
Their content with their ignorance, and see no need to pursue reality.
So, lets take John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
but
Others bibles' such as NIV has "shall not perish"
One has a condition, and the other is non conditional.
300 years ago people reading the KJV knew Jesus message in John 3:16 was not for them. Jesus message was for a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. A man under the law.
Act 15 Jerusalem council. of 51 A.D. states a gentile convert is not under the law but a Jewish convert is. This is why John 3:16 in the KJV has a condition.
@@markharris1342 All have sinned and fallen short the glory of God, the wages of sin is death. There is no distinction, truth establishes truth. The message is not nuisanced it's clear.
Honestly that's convincing , i agree with you , that also explains alot of the variants in the manuscripts , but still its the same text , same God-breathed message
Check the first name of God and then tell me what does it translates to. Who is the first El in the Bible. Please to meet you, hope you guess my name.
@@AbelbenAdam What do u mean El was a common title in mesopotamia , as God is a common title that a hindu or buddhist can use and we as Christians can use also , same thing but not same person
Only the law of Moses was written by God...the words of the prophets are there to bring Israel back to Torah that’s it, not add new notions
that has been polluted by man ever since the word was uttered into the minds of mankind.
Very grateful for Dr. Heiser
brother Michael i love you so much for me you are a blessing may Jesus our lord bless you and your family.
Thx Yah for these kinds of men!
Thank you for all. May you be well.
Excellent!
Excellent perspective 👍, well said.
In creating their own Hebrew only text of the Bible they eliminated 650 years of history in the Old Testament where they completely rewrite and misconstrue the ages of the sons of Shem to the 6th generation.
Part of the reason for the masoric text was to conflate the lineage of Christ. Making the geneology somewhat questionable.
Good video.
The Deceiver deceives.
Really good!
Knowing the Teacher and trusting the Teacher is vital; let the Teacher worry about the textbook.
Shirking your biblical responsibility? You know, that thing about testing?
@@keithcampbell7820 No. I am not shirking anything. And, I do know what it means to, "prove all things." My statement was short, and therefore not comprehensive. I have done my best to pick the best English translations to read from normally. I also like to trail down translational difference between different versions.
But, my point was simple. Having done all, I stand, confidence in the Teacher's ability to teach me.
@@busker153 That's exactly right William. Holy Ghost is our teacher. As soon as man gets involved, either from the pulpit or from manuscripts of the last 200 years and brand new Bible editions that are easier to read, I walk away from those..., epecially when they don't match scripture.
Who is man to say a certain version is not the correct translation? I trust God and he has given me his word in English. I pick it up and I read it and I go to God for explanation.
All glory to Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.
@@garyg7549 I have been enjoying using the 1599 Geneva Bible since Christmas! It checks out well against the originals, in most cases. Far superior to the mess of transmutilations we have produced lately, eh?
Top ! Bravo !
Thanks Dr. Heiser that is very good information that I've never heard of and I enjoy hearing the discussions on manusripts, so I'm not ignorant of this discussion, but ignorant in some areas of it, as this video content demonstrates.
Is that the reason for the difference in Genesis 11's ages in the genealogies between the Septuagint and Masoretic text's? Exactly 100 years. The Masoretic text was changed?
That thumbnail got me lolling IRL. No, seriously...
LOL !
Thank you Dr.Heiser.
My question is how this relates to inerrency and how pastors and theologians often use the fine details of the text. For example my pastor would go verse by verse, word by word and would put emphasis on how a verb is conjugated, what tense and mood; on how many times a given word has appeared say in the works of Apostle John. I always found this to be an exemplary way of studying the Bible. However, what you said in this video would seem to severely undermine such an approach correct?
Another issue that comes to my mind is an apologetic one. Perhaps someone can share their input.
The Mythological view like you called it is frankly not even mythological enough. I'd like to think that God could have created a series of indestructible golden scrolls that could "magically" translate their contents into the readers language. He certainly has the power to do this.
However, what we in fact have is far from the golden scrolls scenario, this seems to suggest that God values human instrumentality in so way. That is to say the process of humans writing, editing, passing down, copying, translating, teaching the texts of the Bible is the intended way by God of revealing and preserving his word. It seems to be the way that the believing community are supposed to interact with the Bible.
I can certainly see many good reasons for God to do things this way and I trust that He has many more good reasons for doing so.
However this is a bit difficult for the unbeliever. This whole process seems very much human and messy instead of supernatural and clean I suppose. Does Dr. Heiser or anyone have any insights into this issue?
Thanks!
I intend to give answering these questions my best try; however, I accidentally sent that first reply before I actually finished typing...arrgghh! BRB
I'm not the brightest bulb, etc. Therefore, consider everything I write with that in mind.
To your first question, I'd say that word studies are [still] valuable, but they'll likely require more work than the "average" pastor might typically put into them. Meaning, they'll need more than Strong's concordance.
Dr. Heiser has a piece about word studies on his website: drmsh.com/graduating-strongs-word-study-tools-better-word-study-logoss-reverse-interlinears/
Following this post.
DO NOT CLICK STEVE D's LINK!
If I had a nickel for every Bible teacher with drastically different doctrines who all go line by line and verb by verb. Judging by the fruit that grows from this method it doesn’t guarantee any real understanding.
Makes sense...how could God be limited within words? God’s Grace is limitless and our Faith in Him shouldn’t be confined to within letters on a page. All of our languages, thoughts, ideas...all, fail miserably in even beginning to describe God anyway.
I like Dr Heiser’s take on giving it the best we can as we share God’s word. We never know how it’s exactly received no matter what we say. But God does.
Argument killer line...if it was good enough for Jesus... lolz
God Bless
If you had a Q for God, what would it be?
So, lets take John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
but
Others bibles' such as NIV has "shall not perish"
One has a condition, and the other is non conditional.
300 years ago people reading the KJV knew Jesus message in John 3:16 was not for them. Jesus message was for a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. A man under the law.
Act 15 Jerusalem council. of 51 A.D. states a gentile convert is not under the law but a Jewish convert is. This is why John 3:16 in the KJV has a condition.
@@markharris1342
300 years ago.........
That's rubbish
😆
I'm not concerned with what anyone thought at any time
I'm only concerned with what it says.
To parse words like should vs shall like that makes a hill of beans to the soteriolology of the entire Bible is, well. Let's say illinformed.
God so loved the world.
The whole world.
The whole world.
Whosoever is everyone
Not just Jews.
John 3 also says "if I be lifted up I will draw 'all men' to Myself".
All means all my friend
I think you're sitting under some wierd JW or messianic teachers
If im wrong I apologize.
But what you said doesn't add up.
And your proof is some long ago dead ppl is fallacious at best.
Peace
Many religious people that don't understand will disagree but I appreciate learning thank you
Dr Heiser, my generation appreciates you. You are a blessing to us.
Very good information.
So, lets take John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
but
Others bibles' such as NIV has "shall not perish"
One has a condition, and the other is non conditional.
300 years ago people reading the KJV knew Jesus message in John 3:16 was not for them. Jesus message was for a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. A man under the law.
Act 15 Jerusalem council. of 51 A.D. states a gentile convert is not under the law but a Jewish convert is. This is why John 3:16 in the KJV has a condition.
@@markharris1342 You'll have to clarify your point. You KJ Only? You believe the gospel is not the same for gentiles and Jews? What?
@@flamingswordapologetics One of his points is that the translations for John 3:16 are different, that not perishing is conditional in one and non conditional in the latter. Also I think Mark is trying to make a case for once saved always saved if he considers that any born again Christian has the assurance of never being able to end up in hellfire, which I disagree with as the scripture shows we can be cut off from the body of Christ.
Any translation can lead a person to have a relationship with God, but I personally prefer the KJV because I consider it the most beautiful and poetic version. It is also the most widely quoted.
There are Baptist churches that think it's wrong to use anything other than KJV
I read from different translations, but to me there's nothing quite like the Alexander Scourby KJV audio bible.
You should learn Spanish....then read the Reina Valera version; the KJV is not the only beautiful translation
Agreed. I mostly use the KJV and ESV.
@Greg LaPrade True. I used to be in the King James only camp until I learned how, when, and where our texts and so-called bibles came from or thier origins.
This is brilliant 💪👍
Brilliant point, I totally agree. Jesus saves and brings us into relationship with the Father. It’s ok to be aware of scribal errors, but they make absolutely no difference to God’s acceptance of us.
Jesus Christ will love me in beautiful heaven
Hey homies. How can I watch full video?
Jesus Christ accomplished everything needed to save my soul from the penalty of my sins when he graciously shed his blood on the cross and resurrected unto eternal life. There is nothing else I need to do but to be able to understand it enough to express it plainly and completely.
I hope Dr. Heiser makes a COMPARISON between the Masoretic Text (Hebrew Bible) and the Dead Sea Scrolls, since it appears the DSS version of the Old Testament appears to be older.
Soo good! Thanks again Dr Mike
Thank God somebody did get up and put the Bible together as we know it today. Martin Luther is a clear historical inkling of the chaos that could have followed.
What's the full video? Anyone has the link?
The variant words changed the message of Jesus as is evident.
Only thing about this , there are many translations outside of kjv that completely removed verses, or leaves out crucial words that have significant meaning.
Thank you for providing this video. I humbly suggest that you need to quality your thesis to ensure that Christians are aware of the appallingly bad paraphrase 'translations': the Passion (incomplete), the Mirror Bible, the Message and the living bible.
Even those are useful
Thank you, the Passion is awful.
King James is the purest translation out there.
I have found places where the King James and the certain words used seem to be more correct than the Hebrew word or Greek word.
Better than the Bishop's Bible but that's as far as it goes.
Nah.
Here is Psalm 14:3, according to the Masoretic Text:
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(Psalm 14:3 - KJV)
Here is Psalm 14:3, according to the Septuagint:
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become good for nothing, there is none that does good, no not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness; their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.
(Psalm 14:3 - LXX)
Now consider the third chapter of Romans, where the apostle Paul quotes directly from Psalm 14:
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. (Romans 3:12-18)
Poor Protestants will go to any lengths to disprove tradition.
Example adding alone before faith in multiple instances.
The oldest existing copy of the Masoretic Text only dates back to the 10th century. The Septuagint, on the other hand, was translated over 1000 years earlier than that. During New Testament times, Jesus and the Apostles quoted from this Greek translation frequently, and with full authority.
Pure is the flame of your burning.
When I add something, it is probably because I missed a point.. What I am finding, when I take the time, on a word translation, the actual meaning of what I have been taught, or the main point was given to me incorrect. CASE IN POINT: Nephilim study and their are so many more examples. In a nice diplomatic way... I would like to point out their is no better way to destroy a religion, than to put a group of heavily opinionated Christians together in a room discussing the topic of rapture or revalations.... The point for me, is translating what is in Dr Hieser's brain to the type of people who Jesus testafied to.
It is the Mission! It is the "Word" and time grows shorter each day. Blessings Father🙏⚔⚔🙏
I just want the exact words spoken by GOD at the time they were spoken writtin down and a perfect translation of those words.
As a former Christian, I had to face the fact that with Sola Scripture, Jesus was not the Messiah, the Jews don't have a messiah in their theology, and Paul was an opposer to Christ and the Apostles (who were not martyred and did not ccx exist). The NT is the story of the Roman Ceasars messiah after squashing the temple. Mythvision podcast
@@adamrollins9258 WOW. At least 6 egregious lies in 3 sentences.
@@greglaprade7507 if I understand your comment correctly, you disagree with me, and you are also calling me a liar, which insinuates bad intention or a willingness to do harm. I deny that I am lying, but do acknowledge that I might be factually incorrect and am open to you listing out the things you believe are incorrect. We will have to establish if you are sola Scripture or not before we begin discussing the things that you think are incorrect, so please also inform me of which type of Christianity you belong to, such as calvinism, baptism for salvation, preterist, messianic christian, mormon, etc
@@greglaprade7507 I'm excited to hear your response, the word egregious is so yummy to me. I have often found that when a comment is made that includes big words like egregious, the person had never studied for himself and has to start using female tactics, big fancy sounding fluff words instead of nuts and bolts, lol
@@greglaprade7507 Continuing with the Christian inability to do math or actually count past 3....how many sentences are in my comment, lol. Go read the resurrection accounts and count the number of days lol.
People also need to ask Jesus to guide them on this. I enjoy reading kjv as grew up with it but also know all kjvs are not the same. I used a kjv app a few years and there were new words like matrix etc. If you are filled your spirit will discern.
Matrix isn't a new word. It's in the first printing of the kjv.
About that
KJOs claim the 1611.
But the one they're reading isn't the 1611 lol
What version do you use
@MyImList oh...
whata loss
I studied Koine Greek in college 30 years ago, and now I'm interested in reviewing the grammar and getting good enough again to read the NT. I live in Grand Rapids, MI where we have a lot of seminaries and used theology book stores, and was bummed out to see the price of the LXX, even a used one is very pricy. Does anyone have a suggestion for a cheap LXX? I am not interested in learning Hebrew at this time, I am only trying to save the little bit of Greek that I have and expand my library of biblical materials. Second question: I was taught that since the apostles and Jesus spoke Aramaic with each other, that we have to be careful about drawing conclusions with regard to their use of the LXX (NT was written in Greek but the apostles spoke Aramaic). Has anything changed since I learned that?
Interesting talk! I wish we had some Hebrew texts before 100ad. I have no reason to suspect that the Hebrew texts matched the Septuagint MUCH closer than they did after the scribes edited them in that first century. I don't think Jesus was quoting Hebrew vs Greek texts, probably they were similar (as they should have been when the seventy Jews translated it 200+ yrs BC). I prefer an interlinear like ABP for personal reading and study, but still use NLT for reading with the family. By and large I think the church has focused too much on the chapter and verse and missed the broad message and purpose of the books. David Pawson helped me with that ;).
We have a proverbial boat load of Hebrew biblical texts from before 100CE. They are the Dead Sea Scrolls, and are available in libraries in facsimile, and in translations.
Meaning is sacred, the rest is formality
Well.... if the KJV was good enough for Paul and Silas, then it’s good enough for me! Hahahaha!
"I read the KJV *only*, just like Moses!"
I have Dr.Heisers book Unseen Realm. I heard him say the masoretic text came at 100A.D. but so many other sources are saying 9th century A.D.
I really wish I could get a clear date on this. Even though several of the other sources say something different, Im inclined to listen to Mike because Ive been following his work
At 3:30 Mike says 1000 A.D. for the masoretic text (copy set) which is close to 9th century. The one point on which I would caution is Mike's optimism about different translations of the Word of God being equally usable. We have too many "cult" versions not to be cautious about what Bible we use.
I think his point is that the MT was first created in 100, and that the copies of it we have today are from the 10th century
Check out Bryan Denlinger on TH-cam. And when your ready, he is on rumble also. Hopefully his stuff on ye texts clear things up.
I love how Dr. Heiser teaches with clarity and simplicity. The layers of facts build on each other giving a refreshing background and contrast to the pattern of one verse sermons and lessons the church has devolved into since I became a Christian in 1975. To have scholars provide this fuller understanding of the Word has aided my efforts in witnessing and understanding how to reach and answer honest doubts of unbelievers.
What's your doubt?
@@AbelbenAdam my only "doubt" is as to what Greenpastures is trying to communicate.....
@@waynemccuen8213 The place where I was born is translated to Green pastures. Thanks for that little key.
Not that I was missing it.
@@AbelbenAdam It's amazing how a little light shines a long way. Dr. Heisers content, as well as many others I've "stumbled" onto, isn't a one off idea, but something that sweeps across scripture. I struggled a bit early on, but, wow, now, the depth of scripture is even deeper and broader. So much to share with those I come in contact with. The more the light shines, the more I need and want of it. Like Jeremiah 20:9, Gods word is a fire in my bones, I can't hold it in. (Kinda paraphrased)
@@waynemccuen8213 I am happy for you. I want you to paraphrase.
The time of the letter is finished with the new year.
The Word is alive now in your mouth.
The word Masoratic translates to the word "Traditional" or "Orthodox" in Hebrew - מָסוֹרתִי
Here is Psalm 14:3, according to the Masoretic Text:
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(Psalm 14:3 - KJV)
Here is Psalm 14:3, according to the Septuagint:
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become good for nothing, there is none that does good, no not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness; their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.
(Psalm 14:3 - LXX)
Now consider the third chapter of Romans, where the apostle Paul quotes directly from Psalm 14:
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. (Romans 3:12-18)
Poor Protestants will go to any lengths to disprove tradition.
Example adding alone before faith in multiple instances.
The oldest existing copy of the Masoretic Text only dates back to the 10th century. The Septuagint, on the other hand, was translated over 1000 years earlier than that. During New Testament times, Jesus and the Apostles quoted from this Greek translation frequently, and with full authority.
@@JohnDoe19991
The Septuagint consists of the 5 books of Moses also known as pentatuach nothing more. Psalms was not in the Septuagint
Also your interpretation of psalms
Is blasphemy. This is psalms 14:3
In the original Hebrew and its English translation
הַכֹּל סָר יַחְדָּו נֶֽאֱלָחוּ אֵין עֹֽשֵׂה־טוֹב אֵין גַּם־אֶחָֽד׃
They have all gone astray, they have all become corrupted; there is none that does good, no, not one.
The only reason there is for this revision is to put forth a false Christian narrative .
@@beng2729 Septuagint consists of Torah (5 books) Apocryphal books and Deutrocannonical books . The Torah was the first to be translated during Ptolemy period and the others were translated in 2nd century . Don't distort history to your lies
It's not my interpretation it's way St.Paul quoted go challenge him
@@JohnDoe19991 Nonsense go back to school
@@beng2729 what nonsence here even your KJV is saying the same
Romans 3:12-18 KJV
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
What is Dr. Michael's middle name? Is it Steven?
Well if the King James Bible was good enough for Paul and Silas, then its good enough for me! Hahahaha!
Not joking....I've actually had someone tell me that.
yeesh
@@baltichammer6162 good grief! Did you slap them!?
Paul liked Greek over Hebrew not English , you big dummy
@@markharris1342 no one in this thread mentioned Hebrew.
Let's get away from the notion, that we have to keep modifying the text of the Bible in order to make it more palatable to the world! I understand utilizing updated English but that could have been done with the KJV text alone. In fact, most of the new Bible "translations" omitted over 140 verses, in there original prints, that KJV contained. These endeavors have done nothing but cause more confusion and disbelief than any good. Another problem that has risen is Bible production has become a business rather than a ministry. The KJV Textus Receptus manuscripts were trusted by all the early Church leaders but the highly edited texts of the other translations were not.
True, brother
The Textus Receptus didn't come about til Erasmus collated it from six or so circa 12th century hand written manuscripts. If we want.to make an argument for the Byzantine text type, or some sort of majority text type, ok that might make sense but that would boot some verses out that are in the TR. And you still would have text variant issues to consider. Even the different editions of the TR disagree with one another, as does the different revisions of the kjv. Not that you are necessarilly being that pendantic about it.
@@provokingthought9964 the collation came about under Erasmus but the text themselves are much older than the time of collation, and far more trustworthy than the Byzantine. The differences in the TR are more dia critical and minimally grammatical. However my greater point is "scholars" have become like evolutionists, their interpretations are reaching the point of theoretical and distrust of Scripture is increasing not decreasing. We are doing to God's Word what socialist judges are doing to the Constitution, creating a new interpretation therefore changing the meaning of the original. Every year their is a new perspective on Scripture and it has done Nothing but bring confusion and ultimately disbelief. The Church better wake up, because if we do not believe in the inerrant Word of God then the world never will!
@@troyezell5841 well I think there's plenty to be criticized (no pun intended ) about modern textual criticism. Not so sure how we can support that the readings unique to TR as older than the Byzantine material which was THE New Testament (loosely speaking as it's a text type with variation throughout from one copy to the next) to Greek speaking churches for many more centuries than we've had the TR.
Whereas the manuscripts Erasmus pulled from are late and few. The Byzantine family of which the TR material is a subset is the majority of all manuscripts (I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know) and is widely attested but readings like the Johanine comma or rev 16.5 (which isn't even original to the manuscript Erasmus or subsequent revizers had) are not. I would be interested to hear the evidence of you could provide a link to an article or book or something.
If what he's saying is true, there is no reason to do textual criticism to see what the original text was.
I'd think that textual criticism is still invaluable when considering individual texts, or comparisons, though yes the notion of arriving at a singular "original text" is probably not the correct goal to have with it.
Great video Dr. Heiser, the subject of origin is one of my favorites, likely because its still solidifying upstairs.
All agreed - however the text for the English has been the King James Bible (with Apocrypha). I only read the King James Bible (the only Bible that has survived since I was a teenager). In another 50 years all the currently popular new translations will have been swept away and Christians will still be reading the King James Bible (unless Jesus has returned). Maranatha
Dr Heiser, can you talk about the documentary hypothesis?
He did
@@paradisecityX0 Can you send me the link?
@@j.victor I forgot which episode of Naked Bible Podcast it was
Does he find it credible? I lean toward it but can you give me his conclusion? I’ll look for the vid when I have more time,
@@chaseharrison5469 Not really. He says it has too many problems. He knows Moses didn't write even 10% of the Torah though
How does a layperson get these variants? RIP Dr MH.
Is there any evidence that the Septuagint was outlawed by Jewish authorities?
Especially when you consider that the Dead Sea Scrolls, a very strict Jewish sect, contains Septuagint, Masoretics and Samaritan texts?
And especially since the Ethiopian Jews who are very strict, still use the Septuagint to this day?
So, how does this verse factor in? Jesus says we will be judged by his word, is this his words here in context or the whole word of God?
Do we need the full words of God?
To whom much is given, much is required. How do we know we have the pure words of God? Will we have an excuse in front of God at the judgment for a faulty translation?
"Lord, I wasn't sure which version to follow or believe there were so many and I didn't know which one was the one I was supposed to use.
Will that matter or will God show us grace, a grow where your planted/use what God gives you type of mentality.
I'm in exploration mode for the truth, whichever version that comes in, but I do know I speak English, I have used the kjv my whole life, and I haven't been convicted to change.
That said, if I'm convinced by God, not man, and God uses men I know, but if I'm convinced to use another translation that I believe is better, I'm not dogmatic about my stance...
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:48 KJV
What about the MT distorting the Biblical timeline and genealogical timeline to try and disprove Jesus as the Messiah? Have you read the books "Rebooting the Bible" 1& 2? I don't agree with everything in those books, but there are clear findings in there that prove some underhanded deeds going on by the rabbis in the late first and early second century A.D.
The 70 thumbs down 👎 must be from KJV only readers.
No to Religion
Yes to Jesus 👍
Jesus Grace is Enough ✝️
Jesus Saves 🔥
Jesus is Love 💕
Jesus is Brother 😎
Jesus is King 👑
God bless you all 🙏
Eraldo New York you need to repent from your sins and live a holy life as well.
@@davescozz ah that would be why the correct translations say,"Holy Ones" not saints.......
@@davescozz the greatest malevolence is one of the mind, through the tongue, and finds its pleasure in the misery of the sorrowful, the hopless, the weak.
Dave Scozz Yes Brother 👍 Repent 🔥 and Jesus ✝️
Repent in the name of the Lord to be delivered from the hour of temptation.
KJV onlies are hard to have a discussion with.
Amazing. They had a spiritual Yahwe and a physical
The "Two Powers" theology and a study of "The Angel of the Lord" prove the Trinity has always been part of the Word, and isn't grafted on. It's very worth looking into.
@@franciscoscaramanga9396 I believe it is inherent in the language of Genesis.
@@stompthedragon4010 Yeah, it comes up a lot.
I've only recently started studying the Trinity and the pre-incarnate Christ in the OT. It's been great, and it explains so much!
@@franciscoscaramanga9396 like when it says they walked with God but at the same time other verses say , ' no man ever saw God'
No they didn’t.
1 John 5:7
The misinformation that this verse is not found in any Greek mss. and was added by late copyist as a gloss, is now a myth with anti-Trinitarian agenda that has been accepted as fact by most people. This verse, often called the Johannine Comma, is found in the following Greek mss.: #61, #88, #629 and Codex Ravianus. Further, it was quoted in 250AD by Cyprian, Spanish Bishop Priscillian before 385 AD, Idacius Clarus and Cassadorious in the fourth and fifth centuries and Facundus in the sixth century.
For your benefit
De catholicae ecclesiae unitate 6
Dr Michael, Is there a book I can read on this topic?
The most readable is James White's book on the KJV Controversy. D.A.Carson has a similar book but he's scholar and sometimes makes stuff more complicated. Just search for White and KJV on TH-cam, there's a bunch his videos on the topic. Its actually how I learned about the issue. :)
Ashes Lauren B may I humbly suggest “A History of the Bible” by John Barton. Described by The Times of London as “a masterpiece.”
@@baltichammer6162 I’ve got Dr. White’s “The KJV Controversy” in electronic format, downloaded into my Logos Bible Software. I watch his “The Dividing Line” TH-cam channel.
@@uwekonnigsstaddt524 After I was able to shed the brainwashing of KJV-only,,that's when the Bible started to open up. Its amazing how much detail is obscured or deleted by ye olde South London dialect. White is rather humorous when mocking Kent Hovind who richly deserves it. However, White's clinging to Calvinism and his snarky attitude caused me to drop him
.
Depending on where you are at in Bible learning I'll make a couple suggestions. Mark Lanier has Biblical History and Church History channels. Dr Michael Brown for Jewish perspective on things biblical + current event topics. Derek & Sharon Gilbert at Skywatch TV have a wide variety including interesting Bible studies.
Dr Michael Heiser really blew open the Bible with his research and scholarship. His insight really made the Bible come together and make sense especially the OT events.
Dr Hugh Ross astrophysicist - his knowledge of the universe really drove home the miraculous details and impecable precision of the movements of the heavenly bodies, really opened up Creation. Did you know creation is mentioned in Job? and in Psalms? I didn't before Dr Ross showed it.
The Bible is so awesome beyond words, every time I learn a new detail or backstory I want to learn more and more.!!
So there's the Masoretic text, the Septuagint, and the Hebrew Bible... are those the three that would have been available to the apostles?
What's interesting is that Isaiah 9:6 in the septuagint doesn't sound like a prophecy of Christ, but it does in the MT. Why is that ?
www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/359-isaiah-96-what-does-it-mean.html#:~:text=The%20Septuagint%20is%20a%20Greek%20translation.%20It%20renders,will%20be%20called%20the%20Angel%20of%20Great%20Counsel.
In Depth Study: Sources of Isaiah 9:6 To Examine
After the Dead Sea Scrolls, the next oldest extant manuscript is the Septuagint (LXX) tracing from 257 BC. Up front, we think this has mistranslated the original Hebrew. The Septuagint is a Greek translation. It renders Isaiah 9:6 as reading the child will be called the Angel of Great Counsel. Brenton’s translation is:
For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger (Aggelos) of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
Notice this does not say He is the ruler of peace. It says God will bring peace to the princes. Nor does this say he is Everlasting Father. This helps support Benner's case that such terms in the 257 BC Septuagint were not understood by the time of the Dead Sea Scroll version in Hebrew ca. 250 BC.
Hence, the Septuagint is a very different version of Isaiah 9:6 indeed than the DSS or Masoretic text.
[Source: Isiaiah 9:6 by Christian Churches of God, Australia.]
This can be verified by looking at the online version of the Septuagint Interlinear. One has to know first to look at Isaiah 9:5 as there is an earlier textual legacy that has numbered one less verse in Isaiah to this point. So at the following link is Isaiah 9:6 in the Septuagint Interlinear, showing you in English the word-for-word translation - identified as 9:5. en.katabiblon.com/us/index.php?text=LXX&book=Is&ch=9&interlin=on
One can clearly see that it says Aggelos. Angel or Messenger, and not Mighty God, Everlasting Father, and not Prince of Peace, etc.
Is this Septuagint Greek edition a reflection of the correct original? It appears not. This appears to be another Septuagint mistranslation. (For a list of Septuagint errors exposed at our website -- Psalm 102:33-35; Psalm 45:6-7; Deut 34:43; and Gen 15:6, see our "Topical Index" under "Septuagint" where links to those discussions are listed.)
Regardless, what is clear is that the Septuagint appears flawed in verse 6. It refers to an Angel / Messenger which is apparently missing in the original, as reflected by the Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah. The Septuagint also drops Mighty God and Everlasting Father (Masoretic text) as well as Ad or Jerusalem (the Dead Sea Scroll text). The Septuagint does show, however, an emphasis on his "name" which will take up importance as we proceed.
I have two translations of the LXX. It differs from the wording of the MT, but I don't see it as being less Christological.
Asser's version reads: "6 For unto us a Child is born, and unto us a Son is given, Whose sovereignty shall be upon His shoulder. And His name is called Messenger of Great Counsel, Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Potentate, Prince of Peace, Father of the Age to Come; for I will bring peace upon the princes, peace and health unto him. 7 Great shall be His government, and of His peace shall there be no end upon the throne of David and upon His kingdom, to establish it and support it with judgment and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of Sabaoth will perform all this."
Brenton's version (which I like less in this instance): "6For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgement and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this."
@@MrKneeV I have 3 translations as well as the critical Greek editions of the text. The alexandrian Greek text actually has the correct wording that matches the MT and even the Syriac text. I do recall Justin Martyr quoting this passage as is common phrased from the LXX but we have a much older witness. The great Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea and, it too, has the same phrasing as the MT.
The LXX over all seems to have been corrupted by Christian scribes who thought they were "correcting" the texts. Yet, the LXX does indeed deserve some study.
how does this square with translations with serious issues for example the bible the Jehovah's Witnesses use?
There are Bibles on the market that are downright demonic such as the JWs, along with some very popular new translations. Heiser is wrong when he says all Bibles are the word of God.
Nobody who's serious about Bible scholarship pays any attention to counterfeits i.e. JW, and cult favorites.
*very good, good dr. Heiser,*We either have the Word on our Heart*
*because the Will of God Starts in the Heart*not how man translated his Word into a book/Bible*
*any translation reveals Gods grace/Son*
One God, One King (Jesus), One Heart is the Davidic line family motto.
@@BCFalls1C.F
*Amen*Ruth**4:13**-22*
*Matt1:5-25*
*Safe is to say Christ Jesus is King Born of the seed of**(God)*/
*David*
@@geraldjohnson8871 the fact is: the correct interpretation of the teachings has been suppressed from the public since the 1696 division of the New World Church, one Branch of the Lake family still runs the one corrupted branch in Pleasantville NJ to this very day, investigate them. Another one branched out with franchises in the 1940's investigate them, www.firstrefchurch.ca/ I am telling you, the people from many Countries got it correct here and then it was suppressed once the last elder John Lake died in 1696 and his descendants were forewarned it would happen and how. The only place to find truth today, is via One God, One King, One Heart, my du Lac motto and one of only 6 coats of arms that predate armoral bearings in 1000AD --my history is completely intact for thousands of years, is yours? I am a literal descendant of St. Jude the Apostle, try looking him up as well while you're at it as well as 300 yrs after christ and the sources of materials in Nicaea
@@BCFalls1C.F.
*l do Not know about church's*l have only been in one or two about six times in my
Life*and never really cared to return*to the
ones l went to*
*l do Not have anything
Against them, l know God/Jesus is in charge of our lives no matter what anyone else believes, Almighty (God/Jesus)Created all things for his own purposes*lsaiah55:8,*
*1John**4:19*
*Romans**8:28**,29*
@@geraldjohnson8871 there is not one non corrupt church on the planet, not one.
I cant decide if I even like this guy …
Which people are preaching the good news of the kingdom around the world to all nations like Jesus christ Mathew 4:23,24:14,28:19-20,mark 13:10?
John 3:16 16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Exodus 4:22
KJV ASAP!
👍‼️
The Tanakh denies the virgin birth. Sadly we still have bibles such as the net bible which does not use the word virgin. In Isaiah 7:14. Without the virgin birth we have no Christianity.
So are you teaching that there is no such thing as a bad translation?
What's your source for this little "Jewish huddle," so to speak, where the proto-Masoretic text was codified/created and other texts of the HB rejected? And declared two powers theology heresy? Was it in Jerusalem or Yavneh?
Well Pastor Stephen Anderson, (King James Only Expert) says in order for someone to get saved, you must have used at the very least, one verse from the Holy King James Version. For real. I believe he said that to James White....
I saw a clip where he said that the KJV Bible is God. It's sad that people take him seriously.
Lol. That guy is a nut bag wrapped in a nut shell, coated with nugget and and recoated in three different types of crazy. He then covers himself with a healthy coat of "this is what the Bible says", and declares if you don't think the same your evil. Duds an unteachable idiot because he can't learn.
I think I agree. All versions are good. The only issue is that they have both strengths and weaknesses. Which is why footnotes are very important in today's Bibles. Not just one text.
So, lets take John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (KJV)
but
Others bibles' such as NIV has "shall not perish"
One has a condition, and the other is non conditional.
300 years ago people reading the KJV knew Jesus message in John 3:16 was not for them. Jesus message was for a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. A man under the law.
Act 15 Jerusalem council. of 51 A.D. states a gentile convert is not under the law but a Jewish convert is. This is why John 3:16 in the KJV has a condition.
👊✌
Christ is the word of God, not a text. Scripture is Holy, but only because it’s a reflection of Christ, the Word of God, and His Church.
If you're naturally good at the thing you won't even need an instruction manual, and it certainly won't matter if it's been poorly translated in places. I've got a copy of the 'New World Translation', a dodgy version used by Jehovah's Witnesses. I would even pull that out if it was convenient to do so. It would certainly be more convenient to quote than something that did verily come to pass when thou wast not!
all one needs to know is Jesus can baptize a sinner with the Spirit if he so chooses, seek the Spirit with all your heart mind and soul, My Davidic family motto is One God, One King (Jesus), One Heart (Spirit of God housed) and my Dalriada motto is Seek the Cloth. I did, and I found, was filled with the Spirit, then met and praised Jesus and God and was allowed to approach the temple of God.
no texts needed
Council of Jamnia?
I have never heard of MT being changed by scribes around 100 AD to counter Christianity. Is this a well known historical knowledge? Anyone have any references, links, or books to confirm
Agreed, I have not heard of this...seems more implied, but will check this out.
Searching for truth and verifying what one finds it seems never ends until you die and are all of a sudden find you are facing The Lord.
That's because he made that up. He is lieing. The oldest MT manuscript is from 1000AD.
@@jparks6544 I don't think he is lying. He speaks of fragments and collections of variants from different sources from 100 AD to the 1000 AD MT. He is probably making an educated guess, but I am in no way qualified to call the man a liar or to say he is correct in his assumptions. My Bible says knowledge will increase. What would he gain by lying?
@@verdigo5892 He has lied about other things. I found 4 things just in this video alone. The Masoretes collected various texts after 700-800 AD. They did NOT exist before that time. The reason they are called Masoretes is because they came up with vowel punctuation in Hebrew to preserve the pronunciation. They only developed that after 700 AD. So his claim that the Masoretic text existed in 100 AD is pure poppycock.
What is the historical evidence of this Jewish collection of the Hebrew texts around 100 A.D.?
what concerns me is seeing these other translations leaving out some pretty vital information - such as Jesus being the son of God or God in the flesh. i can't give direct examples but i have seen this myself. i compared the KJV to my beloved NKJV that i'd been reading since I was a kid..... and it was missing. maybe it was stated elsewhere in the bible and i'd missed it. The pastor at the last church i attended even handed out a paper with a list of missing verses that were profound to your faith and salvation.
it utterly changed how i felt about these other translations. yeah it's easier to read without thees and thous but.... at what cost?
On the other side of this coin... my young sons also read this paper and suddenly got it in their heads that the other bibles were inferior to the KJV and therefore less important.... almost like they were deceptive books filled with lies. I always carry a bible of some sort in my vehicle. one day it happened to be the NKJV when it fell into the floorboard of the backseat. i instructed them to please pick it up. their answer was "why? it's not the REAL bible..."
to which i responded with "IT'S STILL THE WORD OF GOD PICK IT UP NOW!"
Then we had a lecture similar to this one..... but for them i had to added "yes there are missing verses. I don't know why they are missing. but there's still a lot of information that lines up with the KJV so you will show it the same respect at all time."
in truth.... if we wanted ultimate accuracy we'd better learn ancient greek and hebrew lol
Dr Heiser or anyone of your followers that know...
1st off I don't believe this at all but: you say the Masoretic Hebrew erased and changed the messianic passages that the Septuagint didn't...
Please list off some. The best ones pls.
One argument for preferring the KJV is that it was published earliest (of widely used Bibles). No one doubts the adequacy of the translation effort or the methods they used to preserve original meaning of the Hebrew and Greek source manuscripts, they simply deny the validity of the source manuscripts, professing that said "Received Text" is inferior to more recently discovered manuscripts all derived from Roman Catholic sources. Sirens and alarms should sound when you read that. They want you to accept theology from skeptics, and to deny the teachings actually in use by believing churches all over the world. God's word has always been in the hands of his flock, the persecuted and marginalized flock, and he has not given any unfair advantages to the elite, the super educated, or the worldly wise such as by making them the only believers with access to the true, living, incorruptable word of God.
I say all the time that you should always read multiple text. Rather someone is KJV only (which is silly TBH) or an ESV person, each of the manuscripts they're translated from are another witness to the word. It's important to read multiple translation IMO and people that don't are seriously missing out. 🤷
Thankyou
I understand Dr. Heiser's point about the wrongness of attaching sacredness to certain translations, as we see the misguided KJV-only community do. However, he comes across as a little too loosey-goosey on the importance of the text. The text does matter! The corruption of the OT by the Masoretic text has led to tremendous problems, while poor English translations of that corrupt text, has led to additional problems. The character of God, the nature of reality, God's instructions, and our role on earth, are all affected by a corrupt text, missing text, bad translations, and bad exegesis. Because of that reality, I believe it's crucial to go back to the Septuagint as a starting point. Now, the LXX is not perfect either, but with the Peshitta and other ancient texts, and even parts of the Masoretic that aren't corrupt, we can arrive at a better starting point for God's Word, and move forward from there. Again, this is not to create the "perfect" sacred text, but to base our faith on the closest text to what the ancients wrote by inspiration.