When Is a Chair a Throne? - A Guide to the layout of Westminster Abbey at a Coronation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- #coronation #charlesiii #westminsterabbey
During the course of the coronation in May, the king will be seated in three different chairs - but confusingly only one of these is his throne. In this video I explore why this is as I explore with you the layout of Westminster Abbey as it is arranged and ordered for a coronation.
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I hope that after King Charles' coronation in May, you do a sort of review/debrief looking at what was retained, lost, and new innovations.
That's would be a great video to watch indeed.
Lovely idea.
Yes! I expect a lengthy video explaining all the things that take place during that ceremony. I for one will need explanations!
I will happily oblige.
@@allanbarton that's great news TNX Mate 👍🏻
A chair is a throne when the seat consists of a central hole with a basin of water below. Such chairs are typically white, made of porcelain, and are found in rooms of varying sizes but these tend to be small, often referred to as a closet.
All jokes aside, I've been enjoying these videos on the history of the ceremony and the objects.
That's what my wife said too!!! Thank you, glad you are enjoying them.
😂😂😂
You made me think about Al Buddy’s Ferguson. Good one!
I have very much enjoyed your breaking down all the little bits of the coronation ceremony to take place in a couple of months. I feel like watching it will have so much more meaning because I will have learned about the significance of its parts. Thank you for providing this education.
I'm glad you're finding this series so helpful!
More will be revealed come May! Meanwhile, we have you to thank for bringing us the history, tradition, and custom of the coronation rituals. Thank you!
Glad you find the series helpful, thanks for watching!
I always thought there were two chairs that were used at the coronation. Now I see there are three. And now I have received excellent explanations for the purpose of each. Thank you very much. What a terrific video.
Yes, a really good explanation🙂
The difference between a throne and a chair had never occurred to me before, until now and thanks to your expertise and informative video, I am all the more knowledgeable. The Coronation itself also makes a lot more sense to me now, Thank you!
Glad it was helpful, thanks for watching!
I thought the Coronation logo that the Charles selected did a really good job of balancing modernity and tradition - I think it would be quite interesting if he took the same approach to the throne. Maybe another Sir Jony Ive design!
Your videos should be a prerequisite to everyone watching the Coronation! ❤
Maybe even to those planning the Coronation!
Glad you're finding them informative and enjoyable! Thanks very much 😊
I enjoyed this explanation of the chairs and procedings of the coronation ceremony. Thanks.
My pleasure Margaret.
“… the ceremony that will enliven the space in May.” I always appreciate your word choices, Deacon! They always manage to perfectly nail the the material at hand. ❤
Thank you very much! Glad you're enjoying my videos 😊
Thanks for another VERY INTERESTING history lesson, Allan!! XXXX 🤴👸👍❤💗
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Dr Barton as always you succinctly place all these minutae into perspective making this event more complex than one would think! You carefully informed us of all the details! Thank you as always for giving us this presentation presentation
Glad you're finding the series helpful! Thanks for watching.
As usual great video good explanation of the coronation space.
Glad you liked it!
Wonderful explanation. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
just loving these videos. giving the history and background to the Coronation and "prepping" us for the King's Coronation next month. we will all be experts by then lol.
Really enjoying your break down of the coronation
It is quite noteworthy how the Abbey is transformed for the coronation which is why I was so fascinated by the pictures you've showed of the empty Abbey with the royal box and the chairs. I've always been confused and at the same time amazed with such a layout that could accommodate that many people. Though I don't think we'll get the upper boxes again as it is said that this coronation will be slimmed down.
Thrilling. Thank you Allan. I do not think even the BBC will be able to match your commentary and knowledge. 😊😊😊😊😊
Glad you enjoyed it 😊
Thank you, Allan, for a great summary and insight. It throws the whole Rite into perspective when one considers we are not talking of 20th century pageants alone but of a function that has been conducted within a building created for its specific purpose in the 13th century.
Please may I add a few thoughts to your excellent work for consideration.
In terms of construction, the present Abbey building is unique among the great churches of England in that the Quire is set to the west of the Crossing, thus providing the central space before the High Altar and Sacrarium for construction of the Theatre. The level of the Sacrarium is continued back to the Quire and out into the Transepts to accommodate the large space required. I read last week that the Sacrarium's Cosmati floor will be exposed for the first time in centuries during the Coronation. Presumably the raised Theatre with the dais upon it will be knocked up in steel and carpeted inside a week, so it will be interesting to see how this blends with the Cosmati.
I have always been told that it is St Edward's Crown but King Edward's Chair because it was Edward I who ordered said Chair.
Concerning the Royal Gallery, the space on the floor of the Sacrarium is so limited I think it will inevitably be constructed again. Great too for photo opportunities in our 21st century, if not storage of the prerequisite supply of gin.
And to the title of this video, Chairs of Estate, King Edward's Chair and Throne-Chairs. Splitting hairs, but as early as the Conqueror the point hammered home is that the only true Throne is in the House of Lords, the Seat of Government. What are your thoughts, please?
Looking ahead, I'm fascinated at the veil of secrecy that has successfully palled all preparations. I suspect the leading players have been obliged to sign the Official Secrets Act. And still the Abbey hasn't been closed for preparations and rehearsals.
Finally, on matters sartorial, I am very curious to know what the principal ladies will wear, particularly, of course, The Queen. The last three Queens may have had dresses covered in Realms symbolism (1937, I believe, being the most successful) but Queen Alexandra, an epitome of elegance, opted for plain Indian cloth of gold, confining all symbolism to her Robe of Estate. Maybe this time, The Queen, who has mastered her own stunning silhouette (such as the hats suitable for picking up the racing results) will amaze us all with the perfect foil to Queen Mary's Crown and a plethora of other significant diamonds.
Please do keep your analyses rolling in!
Thank you, as always, for the illuminating presentation. I hadn't given much thought to chair-or-throne or *why* the sovereign faces the altar -- more pieces of the puzzle fall into place!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching 😊
Fascinating as always. I highly recommend everyone visiting Chatsworth. It is an amazing place.
Splendid! Loved the reference to Christ the King of kings - as monarchy is prophetic of Christ.
i just love your thorough research. you enhance and enrich my review of history. you have also ignited a deeper understanding and anticipation of the approaching coronation this spring. thank you. i believe the royal family owe you a debt of gratitude, as well. ❤👑
Thank you very much for your kind words! Glad you're enjoying my channel 😊
I just received my first issue of the Antiquary magazine here in the United States. It’s absolutely amazing and I love it. Thank you Dr Allen Barton for the amazing historical work you do -Matthew.
My pleasure Matthew - I am so pleased you like it and I am really grateful that you have taken the time to comment.
I've never thought about that before. Thank you for the insight!
Glad you found it interesting, thanks for watching!
Hi Allan! I must say, you are able to pack so much into each of these videos. I very nearly find myself watching each one twice. While there is no accounting for taste, the suggestion of using "contemporary" thrones, in the ceremony, makes about as much sense as including a bag of McDonald's within arm's reach of the sovereign.
Thanks very much Terry, glad you liked the video! Yes, a certain degree of timelessness always goes down best in the long run where these longstanding traditions are concerned, doesn't it!
I saw that "contemporary throne" at the end and went "EEEWWWWW"... lol
@@Wosiewose this is actually the bishop's throne in Leicester cathedral. It is utterly hideous.
also fascinating to learn about How Her Majesty the Queen will be crowned. thank you
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
An excellent explanation as always, many thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it 😊
Once again great video. I hear of new music has been composed for the event, sorry but if Zadoc the Priest is not used it won't be a proper 'do' in my eyes!
Absolutely and Parry's 'I was Glad' has to be there too.
It will be fascinating to see the coronation of the Queen Consort as these elements of the ceremony are something which has not occurred since 1937, so beyond most people's memory, although we are familiar with the ceremony of the crowning of the monarch from film and TV coverage of Elizabeth II's coronation in 1953
Alan your channel especially the Coronation series is really fantastic ! You should do one The Saint Peter and Paul Cathedral in St. Petersburg Russia where most of the Romanovs monarchs are married.
I do hope there will be a contempory chair. Charles has a reputation of being artistic. it will make it special.
Yes, but he also has a dislike of certain types of modern design. It will be interesting to see what the thrones look like.
How interesting as always. Thank you. This will be very helpful in understanding what we are seeing. I certainly hope he does not use that contemporary throne. There must be a middle ground. I do hope you will do a video post coronation on the details we are unable to see.
Thank you for sharing so much information, let's see what choices the new monarch wil make...as a historian focusing a lot on the 16th century, I hope to see two olde style thrones...but I am probably dreaming 😉
I'm not even a subject of HM but I really love everything about them
Very informative and elusive look at what takes place at the coronation.
Glad you found the video helpful, thanks for watching!
Thank you Allan. Fascinating as always, your subject knowledge is amazing.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Wonderfully informative and beautifully illustrated, Allan.
Thank you very much, glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you Allan
My pleasure!
Thanks for this video. Very interesting. Hopefully a more traditional throne than contemporary.
Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
Entertaining and educational as always. Thank you. 😊♥️
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Well, thank goodness he didn't pick a space chair! :) I rather like the heavily carved ornate ones! The ones they picked will be lovely with the new embroidery.
omg, this was way too interesting!
Thank you again Dr.!!! ❤❤❤
My pleasure, thanks for watching 😊
Very interesting I can't wait for the 6th May
enjoyed this explanation
Glad you liked it!
That was an excellent video! I appreciate so much the work that goes into informing us about all of these royal goings on. There is such history, tradition, and maybe some “newness” headed our way. I’m always torn about such things. I love traditions and such. Your country is so full of them and I thank you for telling us about them.
My pleasure, I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Contemporary style thrones? Heaven forbid! But Dr. Allan's digital approximation of such a monstrosity was quite humorous.
so hideous
Given inflation, perhaps thrones from Ikea? Thanks for another wonderful video essay, Allan!
That would be an interesting new twist for the coronation. Two flat packs are solemnly carried in and sliced open with a sword, a royal toolbox is presented, the assembly instructions are reviewed, and an elite teams sets to work. The job is not complete until it's been determined why-oh-why there are unused pieces on the floor.
@@sweptashore 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@sweptashore. And if the relationship between King and Queen Consort survives the building of the Ikea throne, they will be crowned.
Swedish meatballs served at the banquet afterwards?
😂😂😂😂😂
So, is the chair from which The King’s Speech is given at the State Opening of Parliament a throne because it sits on a raised dais at the head of the House of Lords?
It is indeed.
Saturday, 25 March 2023: Hello Allan. I am enjoying your videos immensely. I really do hope that there will be a royal box for the women of the House of Windsor at the coronation of King Charles III. i also hope that the King and Queen Consort will NOT have some “modern” design for their thrones of Chairs of Estate as modern design is sure to look ugly and quite out of place in the abbey and next to the all the other elements of the coronation. I am looking forward to all of the peers and peeresses in their cornets and robes and EVERYTHING being done by the book.
We will all have to see! Glad you're enjoying my videos in the meantime! Thanks for watching.
wonderful exposition of how the space is used for coronations. Just one question regarding the architecture of the church, do we have any illustrations or descriptions of the pre-18th century lantern crossing? The current structure being somewhat underwhelming for a building of such significance.
I'd like to know too. There's a 2010 book by an Abbey Consultant Archaeologist, The Lantern Tower of Westminster Abbey 1060-2010 by Warwick Rodwell. The cover (18th cent. painting by Pietro Fabris) shows a baroque cupola, but whether built or just intended, I don't know.
I hope that any new chairs and thrones will be created with a mind to the future. The personalization could be done on a removable panel and the same chairs and thrones used for all future coronations. With a septuagenarian new king and his heir already over 40 I think that would be a sensible economy
That would be sensible, or just reupholster existing chairs. They may well do that this time.
Oh, I do hope not. Surely the crowning of the next monarch in a centuries old tradition is worth the expense of a pair of new chairs! I need to keep faith in Charles. That man is a traditionalist to the bone. Look at the Highgrove guardens!
@@leahnichol6665 after all it will just be just new chairs I don't think chairs are expensive
@@malopephasha5341 Well, they can be! But the cost of two chairs will not be a huge proportion of the Coronation budget.
Interesting. I hope Charles doesn't go the route of space age as he did for his Prince of Wales crown! It will be much more meaningful to see the ceremony after watching your videos.
The brief history of the Abbey was also very helpful. Until now I assumed that St Edward's Chair dates from 1066. Can you tell us if the two chairs used by the Sovereign and Consort in the House of Lords are thrones. On a tour of the chamber in 1973 I was told by the attendant that they are not and that the only thrones are those made for the coronation.
I am curious if the anointing will be videoed this time
Is there a question as to whether Anne of Cleves is buried there? If there was, I'd never heard. I have a question, though. Why is Edward I not Edward II since there _was_ a King Edward (the Confessor) earlier? It is _interesting_ that the thrones made for George IV included one for Queen Caroline when she wasn't even allowed _inside_ the Abbey when the time came. LOL!
Will there be a coronation annex built outside the Great West Door or is is scraped along with theater seating?these add uniqueness to the event and i think they should’ve kept the seating arrangement as in 1953.
I still can't believe he kept the name Charles, however I do believe it's purposefully done to show the king as going against the normal way of life.
Saint Edward's Chair is a humble affair. Below it is a stone from the tribes of Scotland, which binds England and Scotland.
At minute 4:50, what are those three tubes and why is a man half in one and another man fully in another?
I was somewhat shocked to learn that the coronation takes place facing the altar and not the congregation, but I understand why. Do you suppose they will install CCTVs in the nave so that those attendees can see what is happening? I hope so.
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However did they fit in 8000 people to QEII’s coronation?
Assuming that there will be a Holy Communion service at the coronation, I wonder if the clergy will insist on celebrating facing west, in accordance with modern practice? Can the High Altar in the Abbey be moved forward?
I doubt it, the Abbey do wheel out a coffee table from time to time and place it where the Coronation theatre is, but they don't shift the high altar.
Is there a reason the floor tiles in the quire are off-centre? It's quite annoying...
Probably done by the same chap who did my kitchen.
I thought ‘Minster’ meant large church? The mother church, if you will (around which the parish system developed)? Does Minster mean monastery, as well?
It does, it is the Anglo-Saxon word for monastery, a contraction of the Latin monasterium. Minster' always had communities attached to them at some point in their history, until the C of E started granting it as a title to big parish churches. They were often mother churches, the Saxon mode of mission being to establish strong communities from which the gospel could be proclaimed.
@@allanbarton Southwell Minster - of ancient foundation - never had a monastic community attached to it, if I understand correctly. So, I guess its historic title of ‘Minster’ was a reference to the Chapter and Prebends (as the ‘community’). Be that as it may, your video was as fascinating as ever; thank you so much. PS - I’ve just seen that you are now on Patreon! I’m delighted to be an Earl😊
@@Floortile thanks for becoming an Earl Charles, that is much appreciated - you should choose a title. Yes that's correct, Southwell, along with Beverley and Ripon were foundations (like York Minster) of secular canons. In theory the prebendaries where supposed to be resident and a community, which is why they all have houses in the close at Southwell, but in practice they delegated that to vicars choral.
@@allanbarton Fascinating - thank you for clarifying. (I became a Marquess in fact - though unaware that this would be at an introductory price! Sorry to short-change you).
👍👏🙏
I'd love them to ditch the carpet and hold the upcoming affair on that spectacular mosaic floor, if it would tolerate the traffic.
I know your comment about the contemporary-style throne was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I seriously doubt that the King, with his well-known distaste for modern architecture, will even consider a throne like the one in the video or something close to it.
I don't think a contemporary-style throne would be appropriate for the setting, anyway ... and I say this as someone who loves modern- and contemporary-style homes and decor.
What is the Difference between the choir and the quire? In German the place for a congregation of Monks is called choir, Not quire
So if a throne is on a raised platform, then why isn’t the Coronation Chair raised and called a throne? It sure looks like a throne.
A throne only looks like a throne if it is raised, otherwise it looks like a fancy chair.
Bean bag chairs! 😂😅😊
The poor man would never get up again.
I hope Charles gets crowned on a eames chair LOL
I don't follow you.
@@allanbarton spelled it wrong at first, eames, you made a joke Charlie’s throne could be modern, thought it would be funny if it was an eames chair
@@ryanwelker9801 with a footstool? It would be quite relaxing.
Possibly the thrones used will be ones of recycled plastic water bottles, you know, the earth thingy currently the fad. For now. 🌍
20:40 Hopefully not.
I highly doubt that King Charles III will be enthrone in a contemporary throne. He is not very fond of anything contemporary.
Modern? Nooooooooooo! What a horrifying thought!😮
😆
I have not paid much attention to the coronation, as it has been irrelevant to my family for some time, but this came on and I watched it. If I am correctly interpreting a few things you said, it's likely efforts will be made to make the ceremony less traditional and less tied to Christianity. Another reason to not watch!
@Bluebell Flora I was thinking of the narrator's "hope" that the usual communion service will be included.
@Bluebell Flora Personally, I will be watching for the Ikea boxes to be brought in!
This is a wonderful video but I would say you neglected an important fact. The reason the enthronement and so many other things you described occurring in the East was not because of Christ. You are facing the holy city of Jerusalem. The death place of Christ and the second most holy city in Christianity
The reason for that being that the second coming of Christ will come from Jerusalem. It is all to do with orientating worship towards Christ, not simply to the geography. Of course this is a medieval liturgy in origin and there was a focus of real local orientation in the form of the sacrament of the altar, the body of Christ.
should I just quit your patreon and join on YT instead?
Yes, that would probably be best now I've got to grips with this.