Absolutely Fascinating! One could easily get lost in all of its meaning. Everything is so subtle to the eye however back in the day these must have been major statements of status! Amazing, thank you for doing all of these videos on these topics because it better explains what & why things are done.
I am LOVING all of these deep dives into all of the nuances of the coronation. Who's there, why they're there, what they're wearing, what they're carrying... LOVE it! #BBMF
Hi Allan! Thanks to your most excellent instruction, the coronation will be less mysterious and thereby a much more satisfying experience for the lot of us indeed. Blessings to you and your family.
@@allanbarton It's fake, you need Saint-Louis' blessing to have a in glitch coronation of sorts. "Honni Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" (Edward III Plantagenest, aka your only king worth mentionning ever. Because he was French. (In fact, I'm pretty sure he coined the world "franchise" himself.) So where are those fleur-de-Lis gone on the angevin crown now? What you're showing isn't a crown, it's just some sort of upside down fruit basket, admit it, sir sole tea, sir? PS: Also, nobility doesn't get crowns, they get orders. You're mixing with aristocracy (the royal family/dukes Milites, as opposed to labores and prayeth) Therefore, your royals are nothing but usurpers taking advantage of the fact Lady Diana descended from Charles Stuart, aka your last REAL king in OURtory, sir sole tea, sir.
I'm SOOOOOO glad that the coronation won't be held in the heights of summer!! Everyone wearing those heavy robes would be ABSOLUTELY sweltering, and I can imagine many passing out!! In May, the weather should be just right!!🤴👸 Another VERY INFORMATIVE video, Allan!! XXXX 👍❤💗
I think it might help those unfamiliar with these ranks to add that Barons are often referred to as Lords. Of, course, this can be confusing, as higher ranks, in personal address, are also called “My Lord”, for example “My Lord Norfolk” for the duke of that name. I think you should clarify ladies’ courtesy titles, too. When I read modern history or historical novels, the writers, even if English, always get them wrong. For example, when a untitled woman marries a knight, baronet or lord, they call them Lady (given name), instead of Lady (husband’s surname). But women are only called Lady (given name) if the receive that courtesy title based on the rank of their father.
I should do another video on this - when it's wrong it drives me mad too. The one that drives me potty is referring to a peer as though he were the younger son of a Duke - 'Lord Edward Bloggs' instead of 'Edward, Lord Bloggs'
That drives me mad too.When the wives of knighted foot ballers ( for example) get called “ Lady Mary or something,when they are “ lady Brown” or whatever the husband’s surname is!
Just found your channel and subscribed. I'm always thrilled to find academic history sources on YT. I'm very excited to tackle your back catalog and looking forward to getting my first copy of The Antiquary. It looks like a terrific magazine. I'm sorry your distribution schedule got held up by the cyber attack. I'm glad it's getting sorted out!
It’s a good thing that England has a cold climate. Here in California, a May event like the planned coronation would have most people passing out in all that velvet and fur!
That was very informative! I'll confess my ignorance in the variations of the robes and coronets. I think perhaps I need to re-watch the televised coverage of the 1953 coronation and test myself on what I have learned today. Many thanks, Allan and also for this month's 'The Antiquary', a very interesting subject.
Thank you so much for your highly informative programs. I find them all fascinating, especially the visits to churches that may not be well known. I am also enjoying your series on coronations. I have been fascinated by coronations and the Crown Jewels ever since I read a book on the subject from my local library in Missouri when I was a a child in the early 1970s. It was The Coronation Book by Leonard Wibberley published in 1953 to cash in, I expect, on the late Queen's coronation. I re-read it several times and, years later, was delighted to acquire a used copy of my own. Could you recommend other books on coronations and the Crown Jewels? Also, I was wondering why King Charles III's coronation is scheduled so relatively soon after his accession. Going back to Queen Victoria's, coronations have been scheduled about a year and a half after the accession. You would think they would want more time to plan such a an elaborate event, especially as it has been 70 years since the last one. I understand that a lot of research had to be done to prepare for King Edward VII's coronation as virtually everyone was dead who attended his mother's and it's been even longer this time. Thank you very much.
Great explanation, I've always wondered about the outfits of the different peers at coronations ever since watched the crown series on netflix. I also think it's great that the UK still have these old traditions, but I also like how the coronation ceremony may change depending on the political beliefs of the time of it.
Great work Allan. Very clear and concise explanations of the history and tiers of nobility. Thanks again for another perfect slice of context and history!
I have a book published in 1964 called "Lord Arran Writes", a collection of the newspaper columns of the then Earl of Arran in which, amongst other topics, he gives an amusing account of the hierarchy of peers' coronets: "Leaving out the barons who hardly count anyway the curious thing is that the higher your rank the fewer balls you have. A baron has six enormous ones. A viscount sixteen little tiddlers. But when you get into the earl category, your balls decrease in number and you have strawberry leaves as well. A marquis has four balls and four strawberry leaves. A duke has no balls at all. "These are solemn thoughts, and I ask you to give them your earnest consideration." He goes on to describe his efforts to buy or rent a coronet, which he claimed he wished to wear in the bath.
Actually when you get a look at the coronet it is a surprisingly flimsy little thing & rather small!In the same way ,the robes obviously handed down through the family are rather shabby & dare one say it,tatty!
This is very informative. I’ve heard the titles of nobility, but was not familiar with where they ranked within the noble group. I have heard several of the terms like “The Letter Patent” but was not familiar with its meaning and importance.
Absolutely brillliant :) This is the kind of detail I love.. I know it isnt Coronation specific but at some point in the future could you explain The Peerage and The Baronetage in even more detail and Titles styles and address. I seem to spend a lot of my life explaining to people that nobody is ever "Sir " and who can be styled Lord and who is just Lord and all that arcane etiquette that trips you up when you are trying to look polished
Definitely one of my favorite channels in this app! I've always been curious though. Why strawberry leaves in particular? Why was it singled out for noble coronets?
did you see the Article in Telegraph about how the Cabinet Office are deciding which peers to invite. About 200 have laid claim but only about 20 percent are being considered.
Hello, I think it's a real shame. It looks like the Coronation ceremony is being really cut down. I believe the total numbers in the Abbey will only be 2,000, last time it was over 7,000! Also peers may only wear morning suits with no robes. I think that's a real shame. If it happens that way it won't look good at all!
@@reggiebosanquet1525 bear in mind that in 1953 Westminster Abbey was closed for six months in order to extend the capacity so they are not doing that this time. Also bear in mind that the nature of the peerage has been fundamentally Altered by two Acts of Parliament passed during the last reign, the life peerages Act 1958 (which allowed women in the Lord's) and the House of Lords Reform Act 1999 (which removed all but 92 of the hereditary peers from the Lords) I don't subscribe to this doomsday view among some that Their Majesties are going to tear up the whole thing. i think Peers wearing robes is unimportant but as long as the core remains which it will at His Majesties say so it will be fine.
In videos of the coronations of George VI and Elizabeth II the heralds were wearing coronets too, some more elaborate than the peers. Does that mean that those heralds were peers?
@@simonwatson4153 no, they are without question crowns, only peers wear coronets. The clue is in the name ‘King of Arms’, kings always wear crowns! What is interesting is that the crowns of the English Kings of Arms preserve the essential form of the English state crown before the arches were added in the 15th century. There is a video in this!
Excellent, once again. Just to add that there were also mesne barons, those that were tenants in chief of the greatest peers such as the archbishop of Canterbury, the earl of Chester, and the duke of Lancaster.
Very interesting, thank you. Have there been special coronets for members of the royal family at times? There was a man sitting in front of the peers at one coronation (a black and white picture, I assume it was from 1952) wearing a coronet with crosses and fleur de lis. From the picture I would say it was Prince Henry, the Duke of Gloucester.
There is a very good way of remembering the order of rank of the nobility.” Did Mary Ever Visit Brighton Beach”the last B being for baronet.The peeresses coronet is a rather disappointing little thing when you see it in real life!( Im not a peeress but I work in our local castle,seat of a duke & the robe & coronet are sometimes on display.
There is also an order of seniority amongst Dukes,certainly.The Duke of Norfolk is head man because he was one of the 1 sy non royal dukes created.The Duke of Northumberland & Duke of Wellington are quite low down the pecking order because their Dukedoms are comparatively new ie Northumberland in 1766.( John Dudley does’nt come into the equation!)
I see that Prince Albert, Charles' youngest brother is now the Duke of Edinburgh, and his son James the Viscount Severn, has taken the role of Earl of Wessex.
Hi Allan! I was just wondering what piece of Baroque music you use at the beginning of your videos? I just love it lol! Also, thanks for another great and informative episode from your fab channel!
It is a piece of modern public domain music called the Old Tower. It is really lovely. Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video, it was a fun one to do this.
My suspicion is that the coronation robes for peers will be abandoned, and they will wear the parliamentary robe, perhaps with the coronet as well, with the potential exception of Royal Dukes etc. Seeing as life peers are unlikely to own coronation robes and such things would be seen as a great expense in a time of economic difficulty. Especially as we would probably know by now if new robes were being made as the manufacturers would already be needing to make them, and somone either a peer or artisan would have mentioned it. It will probably be similar to the State Opening, with a lottery for peers to get tickets, perhaps with exceptions for the special heredataries (the senior peers who have automatic right to retain their seat in the Lords unlike the other heredataries, an example being the Duke of Norfolk). as if all the sitting peers are invited they'd almost fill all the seats in the Abbey, as there are like 700 of them and iirc HM indicated there would be only 1000 guests.
A new form of coronation robe for women was approved some decades ago. The peeress may now wear an ermine cape/pellegrina similar to that of the corresponding peer, but not joined to the crimson train, which underlies it. Her arms extend from under the cape and are sleeveless. As before, she wears long white silk gloves (which you didn't mention).
Your videos are fascinating… I wonder if you know any history or the location of the Coronets(?) Elizabeth and Margaret wore to the Coronation of their father George VI?
Hello, I think another video is on the pipeline where the coronets of the Princes of the Royal blood will also be explained. There are five different ones so it gets more complicated!
Arent there Jacobean portraits of peeresses in coronation robes though... I know I have seen several which appear to be the case... or are they just happening to wear crimson velvet and ermine gowns with coronets...
The Prince of Wales has not been invested as such. Do you think he will wear the coronet with the ping pong ball or the robes of a Duke? The late Duke of Edinburgh although a Prince of the United Kingdom did not have that sartorial can of worms to negotiate. Thank you for your interesting video.
I hope not the horrible 60s one. There is another coronet for the heir apparent with one arch on the top. It was made for Georg V when Prince of Wales. I hope he will use that. Another video coming on the robes of the Princes of the Blood.
@Bluebell Flora That's right! However Prince Philip did wear a princely coronet and robes for the Coronation. These are different from those of a Duke!
@Bluebell Flora Hello, yes all the coronets are different for the five ranks of peers, also there are five versions of the princely coronets! They vary according to seniority to the Crown. Prince Philip wore the second version, which is sons and daughters of the Sovereign! All very complicated!
I'm an American. Because of some property I now own in Scotland, I am now a Scottish Lord. I assume this is below a Baron. You said the Scottish ranks are different. How do I fit in? And do I have a coronet and proper robes?
I have seen clear pictures of the different coronets worn by peers. Has anyone clear pictures of the robes? The whole three and a half bars or rows of ermine for Marquesses is unclear?
Question Allan: Do the nieces and nephews of a new Monarch retain "prince" and "princess" when their grandparent, who is current monarch, like Charles III dies? Wondering if Archie and Lilibet will continue to be entitled to those titles once William ascends the throne?
In the run-up to the coronation, I've been watching videos of past coronations. If the peers show up in business suits, or even in morning dress, they are going to look really silly. The form and substance of the coronation rites require special garb. I'm sorry that the UK is so willing to throw away its heritage and symbolism. Likewise, King Charles should continue to wear the traditional coronation garb of breeches and linen tunic. Wearing a uniform, any uniform, turns the event into a military exercise, not one that covers all the aspects of the monarchy.
I agree with every word, there is development and there is rupture. Too much change causes rupture and makes a ceremony of this sort worthless. It is to precious to allow that to happen.
You mention the "Lords Temporal." It might be apposite to mention their counterparts, the "Lords Spiritual," that is to say, the bishops of the realm. Since 1642, the number has been fixed at 26 of them holding seats at any one time in the House of Lords.
They get a look in in another video Steve. Not mentioned here as the don't have distinctive clothing for the coronation they wear their ordinary convocation dress or pontifical.
To have power given to someone chosen by history and at birth to be a Ruler makes a lot of sense. We have a lineage of power chosen by God if it is chosen by history and providence. We must forever keep it. Along with the temporary power chosen by the people and often given to many who are unfit for power. Those two wings of power need each other to fly .
swords of state will be in use and the personal sword of monarch as well. Black Rod and Serjeant-At-Arms wear swords every day when parliament sits, so there should be no issue. swords for all officers, smaller arms for all the pages
Is there a person or committee responsible for deciding who wears what, and when the custom for this or that will be changed? It must be divulged, so people know what to have made for the upcoming ceremonies. But this information must come from someone in particular...
@@allanbarton my mom is the hair to the house of Abbott. She is the currently Marchioness of Abbott. I had to order a New coronation robes for this and in the end they didnt invite our family and there was no peer crowning. My ancestral was Lord Robert Abbott and his son was John Abbott, his grandson, was the Consillor Jonathan Abbott, my seventh grand father and he moved to Brazil in 1830 and became interpreter and fisician of the Court of Dim Pedro I and Pedro II of Brazil. Since then the family hás turned into Brazilian blood, but was British peerage tho. That's so sad what happened this coronation...
Monday will be 3 months until the coronation and nothing of any detail has been released. Surely something will be announced soon or is it all going to be a surprise on the day. What happened in 1953 what details were known prior to the day? I have checked the Westminster Abbey website today and still no announcement of when it will be closing prior to the date. It's obvious they aren't going to be building the stadium seating inside as in 1953 when it closed over 5 months prior but surely it must be closing soon or can they prep it the week before 😱. They built a massive pavilion at the entrance 70 years ago. As time ticks by it's all a signal that it's all going to be small scale this time 😩
I know, I am baffled by it. My suspicion is that none of the ranked seating will be in place - my assumption is that given the reach of television now that they have decided not to stuff the Abbey full of people. However, I'm not entirely sure how they will manage without some form of western annex to the Abbey. These started being erected after the procession from Westminster hall ceased following the coronation of George IV. There has to be somewhere for the processions to form up.
Could you explain please why fi Harry was made a Duke by the late Queen why cant Charles as king revke it fir his treachery? Why des parliament have be involved or am I mistaken?
I was supremely disappointed when it was announced that Charles ordered all the pomp and traditional dress/tiaras/coronets to be dispensed with in favor of a very watered down, "modern" coronation. I fear by the time William is crowned the coronation will barely exist anymore.
I don't think there will be much peers to be seen at the coronation. If the guest list is reduced to around 2000 people which will include the Windsor family, the members of Royal families from all parts of the world, representatives of the Commonwealth, the representatives of all the other nations in the world, representatives of different organisations of charity and military and of course the MPs, there is little space for the peers. Probably only the peers of the House of Lords will be invited. And I don't think that the normal life peers will be forced to attend the coronation in a special coronation dress complete with a coronet. The coronation will take place in 4 month, thats's not enough time to make over 500 hundred new coronation dresses and coronets.
Hello, women were present in the last coronation. Certain peerage titles are inherited by females. Good example at the moment is Margaret, 31st Countess of Mar. They generally happen in the older Scottish peerages, and also a number of very old English baronies. As it is the number of peers present for this coronation will be drastically reduced, although I'm sure there will be some life peeress present.
If the peeresses of their own right are going to wear the peer dress, what are the husbands of these peeresses going to wear at the coronation? The peeress dress? Looking forward to seeing THAT.
Hello, as explained husbands of a peeress whether hereditary or life peerage have no title, they are just plain Mr and have no robes or status whatsoever!
Thanks for that very interesting video! IMHO, the current "House of Lords" should be renamed "House of Crooks", given the calibre of a lot of the incumbents!
Charles didn't want the pomp of fully decked out peers at his recent coronation. Unstable and hasty departure from tradition? Then he changed his mind last minute to allow it. Too bad since outfit and coronet run $50k to use them once or twice in a lifetime.
One somehow doubts that the masses of inclusivity-baronesses introduced post-1997 even own coronets. Perhaps they can rent them from some theatrical costume shop?
Well you know, perhaps a certain number will be produced for hire for the much reduced number of peers. I suspect a lot of the robes and coronets worn in 53 will now have gone or changed hands. An extraordinary number have been sold at auction.
@@allanbarton It's a honour your reply in my comment. yeah I belong to a restoration monarchy group in Brazil and we are fighting to change the government.
The coronet of the Prince of Wales? It isn't a crown though, but a coronet and it only has a single arch. The Prince of Wales may well be wearing it though.
Hello, baronets have never been included in the ranks of the peerage, even when they were first created by King James I in the 17th century. So the government hasn't prevented anything before or since!
great video's i am glad you point out that this is a solemn religious event not a mere excuse for a day off.
I believe solemn religious events are just excuses to not work but I love excuses not to work
I'm glad I'm not the only person interested in this sort of thing, amazing channel
Nerds of the world unite! Glad you enjoy the channel.
@@allanbarton Indeed! I look forward to every upload, especially surrounding Royality and Nobility- a subject I am very passionate about!
I read a rumour that the traditional robes will be ditched in favour of business suits for this coronation..........I truly hope that this is NOT true
Absolutely Fascinating! One could easily get lost in all of its meaning. Everything is so subtle to the eye however back in the day these must have been major statements of status! Amazing, thank you for doing all of these videos on these topics because it better explains what & why things are done.
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for watching!
Yes, fascinating
I am LOVING all of these deep dives into all of the nuances of the coronation. Who's there, why they're there, what they're wearing, what they're carrying... LOVE it! #BBMF
Glad you're enjoying the series, thanks for joining the ride!
Hi Allan! Thanks to your most excellent instruction, the coronation will be less mysterious and thereby a much more satisfying experience for the lot of us indeed. Blessings to you and your family.
Thank you very much, glad you found it helpful. Blessings to you and yours Terry.
@@allanbarton It's fake, you need Saint-Louis' blessing to have a in glitch coronation of sorts. "Honni Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" (Edward III Plantagenest, aka your only king worth mentionning ever. Because he was French. (In fact, I'm pretty sure he coined the world "franchise" himself.)
So where are those fleur-de-Lis gone on the angevin crown now? What you're showing isn't a crown, it's just some sort of upside down fruit basket, admit it, sir sole tea, sir?
PS: Also, nobility doesn't get crowns, they get orders. You're mixing with aristocracy (the royal family/dukes Milites, as opposed to labores and prayeth)
Therefore, your royals are nothing but usurpers taking advantage of the fact Lady Diana descended from Charles Stuart, aka your last REAL king in OURtory, sir sole tea, sir.
@@messire9837 I'm not at all sure I follow what you are saying.
I'm SOOOOOO glad that the coronation won't be held in the heights of summer!! Everyone wearing those heavy robes would be ABSOLUTELY sweltering, and I can imagine many passing out!! In May, the weather should be just right!!🤴👸
Another VERY INFORMATIVE video, Allan!! XXXX 👍❤💗
Nadia, I love May the weather is just perfect and it will be perfect for the coronation I'm sure.
@@allanbarton June would have been preferable but Charles wants to get whole embarrassing thing over with as quickly and quietly as possible.
@@dnstone1127 embarrassing?
😢😅@@malopephasha5341
Thank you for yet ANOTHER great episode
Thanks Jill.
Another informative video. I learned a lot that I didn't know before about the development of the English nobility.
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for watching!
I think it might help those unfamiliar with these ranks to add that Barons are often referred to as Lords. Of, course, this can be confusing, as higher ranks, in personal address, are also called “My Lord”, for example “My Lord Norfolk” for the duke of that name. I think you should clarify ladies’ courtesy titles, too. When I read modern history or historical novels, the writers, even if English, always get them wrong. For example, when a untitled woman marries a knight, baronet or lord, they call them Lady (given name), instead of Lady (husband’s surname). But women are only called Lady (given name) if the receive that courtesy title based on the rank of their father.
I should do another video on this - when it's wrong it drives me mad too. The one that drives me potty is referring to a peer as though he were the younger son of a Duke - 'Lord Edward Bloggs' instead of 'Edward, Lord Bloggs'
That drives me mad too.When the wives of knighted foot ballers ( for example) get called “ Lady Mary or something,when they are “ lady Brown” or whatever the husband’s surname is!
@@allanbarton Lady Sussan Hussey being a case in point lol.
*applause* It drives me bananas too!!
@@allanbarton Yay !! I am NOT the only one who gets bothered by sloppy use of titles. I am so glad
I can't wait to see King Charles III's Coronation. It will not be any less grand despite the fact that there won't be as many people attending.
It’ll be the best filmed one yet, considering the 1953 one was only on b&w tv though I don’t know if they used colour film.
Wonderful job as usual! Thank you!
Just found your channel and subscribed. I'm always thrilled to find academic history sources on YT. I'm very excited to tackle your back catalog and looking forward to getting my first copy of The Antiquary. It looks like a terrific magazine. I'm sorry your distribution schedule got held up by the cyber attack. I'm glad it's getting sorted out!
I liked all this tradition.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
It’s a good thing that England has a cold climate. Here in California, a May event like the planned coronation would have most people passing out in all that velvet and fur!
😂 it will probably be cold in London!!!
Cathedrals are always cold,and it is England after all
Allan. You never fail to fascinate us. Thank for your informative knowledge.
Sir! You read my mind! I was googling coronets while watching your last video! Thank you!
That was very informative! I'll confess my ignorance in the variations of the robes and coronets. I think perhaps I need to re-watch the televised coverage of the 1953 coronation and test myself on what I have learned today. Many thanks, Allan and also for this month's 'The Antiquary', a very interesting subject.
Thank you so much for your highly informative programs. I find them all fascinating, especially the visits to churches that may not be well known. I am also enjoying your series on coronations. I have been fascinated by coronations and the Crown Jewels ever since I read a book on the subject from my local library in Missouri when I was a a child in the early 1970s. It was The Coronation Book by Leonard Wibberley published in 1953 to cash in, I expect, on the late Queen's coronation. I re-read it several times and, years later, was delighted to acquire a used copy of my own. Could you recommend other books on coronations and the Crown Jewels? Also, I was wondering why King Charles III's coronation is scheduled so relatively soon after his accession. Going back to Queen Victoria's, coronations have been scheduled about a year and a half after the accession. You would think they would want more time to plan such a an elaborate event, especially as it has been 70 years since the last one. I understand that a lot of research had to be done to prepare for King Edward VII's coronation as virtually everyone was dead who attended his mother's and it's been even longer this time. Thank you very much.
I was so hoping you'd do these topics! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Great explanation, I've always wondered about the outfits of the different peers at coronations ever since watched the crown series on netflix. I also think it's great that the UK still have these old traditions, but I also like how the coronation ceremony may change depending on the political beliefs of the time of it.
Fascinating! Thank you for such an in-depth explanation. Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Great work Allan. Very clear and concise explanations of the history and tiers of nobility. Thanks again for another perfect slice of context and history!
My pleasure.
Thank you, absolutely fascinating as always .
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
I enjoyed this wonderful video very much! Great Job!!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Very interesting!
I always wondered about the differences in their coronets, now I know! thanks!
I have a book published in 1964 called "Lord Arran Writes", a collection of the newspaper columns of the then Earl of Arran in which, amongst other topics, he gives an amusing account of the hierarchy of peers' coronets:
"Leaving out the barons who hardly count anyway the curious thing is that the higher your rank the fewer balls you have. A baron has six enormous ones. A viscount sixteen little tiddlers. But when you get into the earl category, your balls decrease in number and you have strawberry leaves as well. A marquis has four balls and four strawberry leaves. A duke has no balls at all.
"These are solemn thoughts, and I ask you to give them your earnest consideration."
He goes on to describe his efforts to buy or rent a coronet, which he claimed he wished to wear in the bath.
Actually when you get a look at the coronet it is a surprisingly flimsy little thing & rather small!In the same way ,the robes obviously handed down through the family are rather shabby & dare one say it,tatty!
I balieve Lord Arran’s nickname was “ boofy”!
Only wish my mother aunt and grandmother could be here to watch. Brilliant as always.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Fascinating video!
This is very informative. I’ve heard the titles of nobility, but was not familiar with where they ranked within the noble group. I have heard several of the terms like “The Letter Patent” but was not familiar with its meaning and importance.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
kind hearts and coronets.
Superb as always.
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely brillliant :) This is the kind of detail I love.. I know it isnt Coronation specific but at some point in the future could you explain The Peerage and The Baronetage in even more detail and Titles styles and address. I seem to spend a lot of my life explaining to people that nobody is ever "Sir " and who can be styled Lord and who is just Lord and all that arcane etiquette that trips you up when you are trying to look polished
Thank you - I have been sitting down thus evening outlined just that future video.
A very informative clip. Many thanks.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Definitely one of my favorite channels in this app! I've always been curious though. Why strawberry leaves in particular? Why was it singled out for noble coronets?
did you see the Article in Telegraph about how the Cabinet Office are deciding which peers to invite. About 200 have laid claim but only about 20 percent are being considered.
Hello, I think it's a real shame. It looks like the Coronation ceremony is being really cut down. I believe the total numbers in the Abbey will only be 2,000, last time it was over 7,000! Also peers may only wear morning suits with no robes. I think that's a real shame. If it happens that way it won't look good at all!
@@reggiebosanquet1525 bear in mind that in 1953 Westminster Abbey was closed for six months in order to extend the capacity so they are not doing that this time. Also bear in mind that the nature of the peerage has been fundamentally Altered by two Acts of Parliament passed during the last reign, the life peerages Act 1958 (which allowed women in the Lord's) and the House of Lords Reform Act 1999 (which removed all but 92 of the hereditary peers from the Lords) I don't subscribe to this doomsday view among some that Their Majesties are going to tear up the whole thing. i think Peers wearing robes is unimportant but as long as the core remains which it will at His Majesties say so it will be fine.
In videos of the coronations of George VI and Elizabeth II the heralds were wearing coronets too, some more elaborate than the peers. Does that mean that those heralds were peers?
The three chief heralds are called Kings of Arms, Garter, Clarenceaux and Norroy. They wear their own distinctive crowns.
Coronets not crowns.@@allanbarton
@@simonwatson4153 no, they are without question crowns, only peers wear coronets. The clue is in the name ‘King of Arms’, kings always wear crowns! What is interesting is that the crowns of the English Kings of Arms preserve the essential form of the English state crown before the arches were added in the 15th century. There is a video in this!
Thanks for that, very interesting. So many books refer to these items without describing them.
My pleasure Cornelia. They are all rather fascinating.
Thank you for another excellent video....
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Excellent, once again. Just to add that there were also mesne barons, those that were tenants in chief of the greatest peers such as the archbishop of Canterbury, the earl of Chester, and the duke of Lancaster.
Very interesting, thank you.
Have there been special coronets for members of the royal family at times?
There was a man sitting in front of the peers at one coronation (a black and white picture, I assume it was from 1952) wearing a coronet with crosses and fleur de lis.
From the picture I would say it was Prince Henry, the Duke of Gloucester.
Yes indeed, I've got another video planned on the Princes and Princesses of the Blood Royal that will talk about them. The rules are complicated!!!
@@allanbarton Oooh goodie! I LOVE all this!
@@allanbarton Good idea! There are five versions of the princely coronets, starting with the heir apparent. Looking forward to that one!
There is a very good way of remembering the order of rank of the nobility.” Did Mary Ever Visit Brighton Beach”the last B being for baronet.The peeresses coronet is a rather disappointing little thing when you see it in real life!( Im not a peeress but I work in our local castle,seat of a duke & the robe & coronet are sometimes on display.
There is also an order of seniority amongst Dukes,certainly.The Duke of Norfolk is head man because he was one of the 1 sy non royal dukes created.The Duke of Northumberland & Duke of Wellington are quite low down the pecking order because their Dukedoms are comparatively new ie Northumberland in 1766.( John Dudley does’nt come into the equation!)
Excellent video. Highly educational
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Very informative. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Cool... While I watched the last video I thought exactly about this... 😂😂😂😂 Btw love your great job
I am blessed in my job..... glad I divined your next queries 😆. Thanks for watching!
I see that Prince Albert, Charles' youngest brother is now the Duke of Edinburgh, and his son James the Viscount Severn, has taken the role of Earl of Wessex.
Hi Allan! I was just wondering what piece of Baroque music you use at the beginning of your videos? I just love it lol! Also, thanks for another great and informative episode from your fab channel!
It is a piece of modern public domain music called the Old Tower. It is really lovely. Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video, it was a fun one to do this.
@@allanbarton Thank you so much for your rapid response! :) ETA: Found it! "the old tower inn"
Thanks for the explanations of peerage titles. I do wonder what the dress will look like for partners of female peers 😄
My suspicion is that the coronation robes for peers will be abandoned, and they will wear the parliamentary robe, perhaps with the coronet as well, with the potential exception of Royal Dukes etc.
Seeing as life peers are unlikely to own coronation robes and such things would be seen as a great expense in a time of economic difficulty. Especially as we would probably know by now if new robes were being made as the manufacturers would already be needing to make them, and somone either a peer or artisan would have mentioned it.
It will probably be similar to the State Opening, with a lottery for peers to get tickets, perhaps with exceptions for the special heredataries (the senior peers who have automatic right to retain their seat in the Lords unlike the other heredataries, an example being the Duke of Norfolk).
as if all the sitting peers are invited they'd almost fill all the seats in the Abbey, as there are like 700 of them and iirc HM indicated there would be only 1000 guests.
I love watching and talking about Royalty and how they dress ....
So do I 😆. Thanks for watching!
Amazing video
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
A new form of coronation robe for women was approved some decades ago. The peeress may now wear an ermine cape/pellegrina similar to that of the corresponding peer, but not joined to the crimson train, which underlies it. Her arms extend from under the cape and are sleeveless. As before, she wears long white silk gloves (which you didn't mention).
Very interesting interpretation! Certainly sounds plausible!
Your videos are fascinating… I wonder if you know any history or the location of the Coronets(?) Elizabeth and Margaret wore to the Coronation of their father George VI?
I am a Baron who has never been asked to wear robes or cap .Never had time if they asked
It's all very overwhelming to me as an American but you did an excellent job explaining all of these ranks.
Hello, I think another video is on the pipeline where the coronets of the Princes of the Royal blood will also be explained. There are five different ones so it gets more complicated!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Yes, should be live at the weekend.
Arent there Jacobean portraits of peeresses in coronation robes though... I know I have seen several which appear to be the case... or are they just happening to wear crimson velvet and ermine gowns with coronets...
Can u plz tell me the name of the song in ur intro
The Prince of Wales has not been invested as such. Do you think he will wear the coronet with the ping pong ball or the robes of a Duke? The late Duke of Edinburgh although a Prince of the United Kingdom did not have that sartorial can of worms to negotiate.
Thank you for your interesting video.
I hope not the horrible 60s one. There is another coronet for the heir apparent with one arch on the top. It was made for Georg V when Prince of Wales. I hope he will use that. Another video coming on the robes of the Princes of the Blood.
@Bluebell Flora That's right! However Prince Philip did wear a princely coronet and robes for the Coronation. These are different from those of a Duke!
@Bluebell Flora Hello, yes all the coronets are different for the five ranks of peers, also there are five versions of the princely coronets! They vary according to seniority to the Crown. Prince Philip wore the second version, which is sons and daughters of the Sovereign! All very complicated!
th-cam.com/video/nyPvVHlnEIQ/w-d-xo.html maybe he will wear this
When did the change happen for the Monarch from open crown (like Henry II), to closed crown ( like whats used today)?
I'm an American. Because of some property I now own in
Scotland, I am now a Scottish Lord. I assume this is below a Baron. You said the Scottish ranks are different. How do I fit in? And do I have a coronet and proper robes?
Question: if an antique collector wanted to acquire an antique (or modern) coronet would it be possible? Where?
They come up at auction relatively frequently.
I have seen clear pictures of the different coronets worn by peers. Has anyone clear pictures of the robes? The whole three and a half bars or rows of ermine for Marquesses is unclear?
Question Allan: Do the nieces and nephews of a new Monarch retain "prince" and "princess" when their grandparent, who is current monarch, like Charles III dies? Wondering if Archie and Lilibet will continue to be entitled to those titles once William ascends the throne?
In the run-up to the coronation, I've been watching videos of past coronations. If the peers show up in business suits, or even in morning dress, they are going to look really silly. The form and substance of the coronation rites require special garb. I'm sorry that the UK is so willing to throw away its heritage and symbolism.
Likewise, King Charles should continue to wear the traditional coronation garb of breeches and linen tunic. Wearing a uniform, any uniform, turns the event into a military exercise, not one that covers all the aspects of the monarchy.
I agree with every word, there is development and there is rupture. Too much change causes rupture and makes a ceremony of this sort worthless. It is to precious to allow that to happen.
I think it'll be parliamentary robes, as we are already used to this with the state opening, they may choose to add coronets.
This I do know that Charles should wear the stockings, britches the lot because it's a tradition that if broken would be sad
You mention the "Lords Temporal." It might be apposite to mention their counterparts, the "Lords Spiritual," that is to say, the bishops of the realm. Since 1642, the number has been fixed at 26 of them holding seats at any one time in the House of Lords.
They get a look in in another video Steve. Not mentioned here as the don't have distinctive clothing for the coronation they wear their ordinary convocation dress or pontifical.
To have power given to someone chosen by history and at birth to be a Ruler makes a lot of sense. We have a lineage of power chosen by God if it is chosen by history and providence.
We must forever keep it.
Along with the temporary power chosen by the people and often given to many who are unfit for power.
Those two wings of power need each other to fly .
Do you think the ceremonial swords will be allowed, or if yes, worn, at the upcoming coronation?
swords of state will be in use and the personal sword of monarch as well.
Black Rod and Serjeant-At-Arms wear swords every day when parliament sits, so there should be no issue. swords for all officers, smaller arms for all the pages
Is there a person or committee responsible for deciding who wears what, and when the custom for this or that will be changed? It must be divulged, so people know what to have made for the upcoming ceremonies. But this information must come from someone in particular...
Wow.
I missed the peerage crowning in Charles III coronation. There wasant 😢
Me too, it was a shame.
@@allanbarton my mom is the hair to the house of Abbott. She is the currently Marchioness of Abbott. I had to order a New coronation robes for this and in the end they didnt invite our family and there was no peer crowning. My ancestral was Lord Robert Abbott and his son was John Abbott, his grandson, was the Consillor Jonathan Abbott, my seventh grand father and he moved to Brazil in 1830 and became interpreter and fisician of the Court of Dim Pedro I and Pedro II of Brazil. Since then the family hás turned into Brazilian blood, but was British peerage tho. That's so sad what happened this coronation...
My hat is better than yours. 😁
A Baron speaking to a Viscount: "My balls are bigger than yours." 😁😁😁😁
@@rwboa22 Viscount retorts back to Baron: 'yes but I've got sixteen balls you've only got six!'
🤣
🤣
Ha
Por favor ative a legenda para este vídeo! Obrigado.
Monday will be 3 months until the coronation and nothing of any detail has been released. Surely something will be announced soon or is it all going to be a surprise on the day. What happened in 1953 what details were known prior to the day? I have checked the Westminster Abbey website today and still no announcement of when it will be closing prior to the date. It's obvious they aren't going to be building the stadium seating inside as in 1953 when it closed over 5 months prior but surely it must be closing soon or can they prep it the week before 😱. They built a massive pavilion at the entrance 70 years ago. As time ticks by it's all a signal that it's all going to be small scale this time 😩
I know, I am baffled by it. My suspicion is that none of the ranked seating will be in place - my assumption is that given the reach of television now that they have decided not to stuff the Abbey full of people. However, I'm not entirely sure how they will manage without some form of western annex to the Abbey. These started being erected after the procession from Westminster hall ceased following the coronation of George IV. There has to be somewhere for the processions to form up.
@@allanbarton But will the make a coronation Theatre again as bringing up the place before the Altar before till the choir stalles on the same level?
Could you explain please why fi Harry was made a Duke by the late Queen why cant Charles as king revke it fir his treachery? Why des parliament have be involved or am I mistaken?
I cant wait to see what the ladies will be wearing to the kings coronation anne camilla katherine sophie and katherines children
Won't it be wonderful? I will do another video on that.
Camilla is special because she is to be crowned as well.
@@rivenoak I have two videos on the Consort's coronation and regalia.
👍👏🙏
I was supremely disappointed when it was announced that Charles ordered all the pomp and traditional dress/tiaras/coronets to be dispensed with in favor of a very watered down, "modern" coronation. I fear by the time William is crowned the coronation will barely exist anymore.
So will the peers all be wearing their robes and coronets at the coronation of just the main few?
I don't think there will be much peers to be seen at the coronation. If the guest list is reduced to around 2000 people which will include the Windsor family, the members of Royal families from all parts of the world, representatives of the Commonwealth, the representatives of all the other nations in the world, representatives of different organisations of charity and military and of course the MPs, there is little space for the peers. Probably only the peers of the House of Lords will be invited. And I don't think that the normal life peers will be forced to attend the coronation in a special coronation dress complete with a coronet. The coronation will take place in 4 month, thats's not enough time to make over 500 hundred new coronation dresses and coronets.
Looking forward to women peers being present
Hello, women were present in the last coronation. Certain peerage titles are inherited by females. Good example at the moment is Margaret, 31st Countess of Mar. They generally happen in the older Scottish peerages, and also a number of very old English baronies. As it is the number of peers present for this coronation will be drastically reduced, although I'm sure there will be some life peeress present.
I would love to see women with a title Suo jure wearing the same as their male counterparts.
If the peeresses of their own right are going to wear the peer dress, what are the husbands of these peeresses going to wear at the coronation? The peeress dress? Looking forward to seeing THAT.
The husband of a peeress does not take any status from his wife. Just as Prince Philip wasn't King.
Hello, as explained husbands of a peeress whether hereditary or life peerage have no title, they are just plain Mr and have no robes or status whatsoever!
Thanks for that very interesting video! IMHO, the current "House of Lords" should be renamed "House of Crooks", given the calibre of a lot of the incumbents!
😂😂😂😂 yep.
But there always were crooks in the House of Lords. Favourites of the Monarch and so on. Why change the name?
@John d No - I mean actual criminals!
Charles didn't want the pomp of fully decked out peers at his recent coronation. Unstable and hasty departure from tradition? Then he changed his mind last minute to allow it. Too bad since outfit and coronet run $50k to use them once or twice in a lifetime.
Why were the hereditary peers stripped of their titles?
They weren't stripped of their titles but their role in Parliament and political power.
Do the Lords get an allowance of £323 for attending like the do in the Lords?
Life peers?
peer for live, not hereditary. the only new hereditary peers are those from royal family; everybody else is for live
Don't the Baronets attend with robe and cornets?
No, they are not part of the nobility, but the gentry, and part of the commons.
@@allanbarton Thanks! I wasn't sure.
Thanks for explaining. Now we can get rid of this pretentiousness.
Many ermine died for these robes
11 20
One somehow doubts that the masses of inclusivity-baronesses introduced post-1997 even own coronets. Perhaps they can rent them from some theatrical costume shop?
Well you know, perhaps a certain number will be produced for hire for the much reduced number of peers. I suspect a lot of the robes and coronets worn in 53 will now have gone or changed hands. An extraordinary number have been sold at auction.
I want a Monarchy in Brazil 🇧🇷🇧🇷🤴🏻🇧🇷🇧🇷
Bring back the Emperor.
@@allanbarton It's a honour your reply in my comment. yeah I belong to a restoration monarchy group in Brazil and we are fighting to change the government.
It is such a shame when a monarchy goes. I think in the UK we are thankfully a long way from that possibility.
@@allanbarton I'm probably one of the extremely few Americans who regret losing ours.
@@parkerbrown-nesbit1747 you may well be.
I wish he would depart from the usual and wear the princes crown for the coronation as it is so gorgeous and less pretentious. It was made for him…
The coronet of the Prince of Wales? It isn't a crown though, but a coronet and it only has a single arch. The Prince of Wales may well be wearing it though.
Any of those coronets have beryls on them? 😂❤
Coronets? Crowns.
There is a difference.
The Government stopped us Baronets from being included in the peerage but if any had more right it is us
What is your title Kevin?
Hello, baronets have never been included in the ranks of the peerage, even when they were first created by King James I in the 17th century. So the government hasn't prevented anything before or since!
This is all very bad news for stoats.