Wiring Wonders: Crafting Battery Box Connections
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Hey Everyone! Welcome back to the ElectricSuperCar channel! This episode we get all of the battery box wiring completed!
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▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Rear Battery Box Wiring
2:36 - New Bench Vice
5:27 - Main Battery Box Wiring
9:00 - Front Battery Box Bus Bars
11:31 - Mounting HV Components
17:32 - Rubber Coating
18:04 - High Voltage Section, HVIL
20:55 - Adding Holes & Mounting CCS Fast Charging Components
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Tags: EV build,electric vehicle build,electric car build,electric car project,electric vehicle conversion,ev conversion,electric supercar,electric hypercar,electricsupercar,electric Porsche,Porsche ev,Porsche GTE,How to build an electric car,how to convert an electric car,electric conversion,Electric car conversion,porsche ev,tesla dual motor build, Bus bar, bus bars, bus bar isolation, bus bar coating, bus bar dipping, bus bar plastidip, bus bar battery, bus bar terminal, how to make bus bars,
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More notes from a 40 year EE (65 yr old)... hoping to help you have a successful project!
That HV output terminal bus-bar will ABSOLUTELY need more than that single 10-32 bolt to be able to pass anything remotely close to 1,800 Amps - as you said your Model S drivetrain goal is.
Yes, the mating bus bar surfaces can carry a good portion of the current, they are (and stay) perfectly coplanar. But the bolt/nut will likely carry at least as much as the mating surfaces... especially since they are perfectly coplanar. It would not surprise me if the bolt gets hot enough to melt... or at least loosen enough from thermal expansion - which will result in the mating surfaces getting VERY hot, right next to the battery... not good.
If you really expect to draw anything like 1,800 Amps, I strongly recommend doing more research.
I would suggest using no less than a pair of 3/8" bolts... with 1/8" thick flat washers - to make the mating surfaces absolutely coplanar. This is no place to cut corners... bad things will happen.
Using smaller bolts at each battery terminal is OK, because each only carries 1/2 of the total current... but not 10-32. At 900 Amps per battery module, use the absolute largest that will fit the holes in the battery terminals.
(keep in mind how big those rear motor bus bar bolts were... and that was on bus bars larger than your battery pack uses, and it was only for one motor)
Beyween your paralleled modules, you need twice as thick "series" connection bars... or use one at bottom, and one at top... it carries twice the current as the parallel-connection bars.
You also should use thick flat washers to increase the clamping area... copper bus bars will squeeze/bend/dimple under high concentrated pressure... reducing the contact area.
help.leonardo-energy.org/hc/en-us/articles/360021365560--Cu0201-Copper-for-Busbars-Guidance-for-Design-and-Installation
(See section 6.4)
On another subject... do not make the packs air-tight... that's a deadly risk a battery "thermal event" occurs... whether while you own it, or the next guy.
You need positive pressure vents... to prevent possible over-pressure explosions.
Even without a "failure induced" pressure build-up, there will always be heat build-up in every EV pack, and this obviously heats up the air inside the pack... which expands it. This one source of heat will cause enough thermal-cycle-induced expansion that it will cause 'fastener' stretching, and eventual loosening. (or as Sandy Munro calls them... "un-fasteners"... because that's what they do with vibration and thermal cycling)
You need to design a proper vent system, don't let the battery pack make it's own... that way you can pre-determine where the vent is (highest point), allowing for water-resistance, and safety.
This same vent so needs to be water-proof, because if the pack is warm, the air has expanded and exhausted, then if the car goes through a deep puddle of cold water, the pack is suddenly cooled, creating a negative pressure, trying to suck in water... again, high voltage and water... a very bad thing.
Always easier to fix things before it becomes a problem.
absolutely this, I was about to make a comment about the size of the busbar and how I didn't believe that size bolt would be sufficient. Well said without any snarky-ness and very informative @ElectricSuperCar please read this before a full power test!
Thanks for the comment. I agree with pretty much everything
Bolts should NEVER, I repeat NEVER be counted on as part of a current carrying path. The only exception to this is if the part is specifically designed for the bolt to be the conductor, in which case the bolt is usually copper or brass. A steel bolt has a much higher resistance than copper, and even higher than through the two mated bar surfaces. Thus the majority of the current will be through the bus bar. There will always be current through the bolt, but it should be a small portion of the overall current. Now if the connection becomes loose and the two buss bars are not clamped tightly together, then there will be more or all current through the bolt. Say you had a 1" wide bar. You wouldn't want to use a 7/8" bolt because then you'd have a 7/8" hole in a 1" bar with only 1/16" width of contact area around the bolt. That would be an example of trying to maximize the current through the bolt. If you used a #6 bolt then you'd have a large copper contact area (between bars) but you'd have low clamping pressure as well as a smaller washer clamping area. You want a bolt that is large enough to give you the clamping load you need but no too big that it significantly compromises the contact area between the two bars.
Using a serrated large diameter bellville washer is a good option because it gives a larger clamp area (as opposed to a small diameter split washer) as well as some locking function. It can retain clamp force better through thermal cycling. Even better would be a large diameter cupped Nordlock, but nobody uses them due to price, I'd assume.
I didn't run the numbers, but just looking at the bars and the bolts, the bar width to bolt diameter ratio looks fine to me. The bars do look a bit narrow for the expected current, but again I didn't run the math, temp rise vs time, etc.
@@bjcouche1 For the most part, you're preaching to the choir. But 10-32 screws will never be able to provide sufficient clamping force and clamping area, thus the connections will be high resistance, forcing current through the fasteners. Even if grade 8 fasteners were used, the concentrated force will cause the copper to distort, decreasing the contact area... same result.
As I said, he should use the Tesla motor phase connections as an example, but that's nowhere near the total current capacity of the dual motor system... because each of those is only 1 of 3 phase legs of one motor. The document I linked has all of the real, well documented facts for bus bar fasteners.
Even though you did clearance the fuses away from the battery box, that still seems like a smallish gap. I would want plenty of margin so that the parts don't move/twist/vibrate into a position where they would short on the battery box. Don't assume that structure is 100% rigid. Remember that the car chassis will move too, and deflecting aluminum doesn't require crazy amounts of loads. I'm sure after the problems with grounding on the blue car, you don't want similar issues this time around.
On a more positive note: I'm very impressed with how much progress you made this episode. You clearly did a lot of planning to get this battery box packaging as compact as possible. Even though it would be great to have a bunch of expensive tools in your shop, I'm actually more impressed that you're making it work with an accessible level of tools. Makes it seems more attainable for the average DIY person.
I noticed how close those big fuses were to the shell and waited for some kind of fix or explanation for the rest of the video. But there was none. If there actually is a gap between those, it’s scary small.
@FrodeAltink yea some stuff, especially those fuses are so damn close and nothing insulating is giving me pucker factor of at least 9.
this.
Great video. Lots of progress. Another note on the fuses. You have them paralleled together. Are you trying to create a larger amp fuse? In this configuration, if one fuse goes, the system is still hot. I would rethink the fuse layout.
Still love watching your channel
The MGA is a good fit, it's nice enough and small enough, hopefully the funding is reliable.
🤞
Definitely the MGA! But the truck will do in a pinch.
You do great work Jeremy. I don't think people realize the time it takes to get our homebuilt wiring harnesses correct and clean. You are the Master of this. Next you need to put together a small bench-top CnC to do help with a lot of your custom drilling routing. It is very inexpensive to put one together and you will love it when you are done. Just another project someday.
Great point!
It's very inexpensive to cobble one together. It's not exactly cheap to do one properly. I've built quite a few of them over the years and now I really can't imagine fitting a benchtop CNC that is properly made under $2500 and even that is pushing it. Yes, I can make a machine cheaper, but it will not be reliable, repeatable, and not a hazard to the operator.
Might want to add an insulator between the Negative fuse busbar and the chassis ground, it needs no less than 2x the battery voltage isolation, and that small gap isn't a reliable isolation gap. A sheet of 1/8" FR4 fiberglass would work, including preventing mechanical creep of a fuse or if the bus bar loosens over time.
I also saw some concerning gaps around the HV interlock terminals to Ground... where your plastic model bus bars attach (assuming bolts and nuts and lock washers)
Thanks for the comment
Incredible work with wires here. And milling that aluminium. Great job Jeremy.
Thanks 👍
These videos are super relaxing. Would be excited to see the old red MGA being converted
Glad you like them!
The level of detail in your work is excellent
Thanks Friend!
@@ElectricSuperCar A thought... Plaid rear motors powering front & rear axels in a ? 4X4 pick-up conversion... with battery modules modules in the unused space around them & in the usual places hood/trunk etc...
Anyone who did some small project knows how much work he has done, great work, great skill, love to watch it
Thanks Friend!
Wow!!! I'm amazed more and more every episode. I have to say too that send-cut-send is a great service - thanks for sharing everything.
👍
Absolutely marvelous work. Music track complements the video. Keep it up! The new bench vice looks good too!
Thank you very much!
I'm getting the willies from seeing high voltage so close to the metal of the battery box. Glad to see you cut down the big fuse tabs but ... :^(
Wow, that bench vise is like a model vise. So cute. Lol
RIP little red (beefy bench vice)
I am so glad you trimmed those HV fuses! It was nagging me the whole time until you did it. A couple sheets of mica would be a good thing to consider in similar situations. Love your work, thanks for sharing.
Great idea!
The MGA would be a great next project.
Why do I have a feeling that a CNC Mill sponsorship (and or DIY Mill construction) video is on the books?!
The pick up and uhual truck are tempting
I love that the Office is playing in the background! Great video so fun to see your progress!
Thank you!! 😊
In my opinion the old truck would be an awesome ev conversion project since it isn't a common choice
Not to mention the amount of space you get to work with!
You can repair the vise with a stickwelder and special rods for cast iron. I did that with a similar vice and it holds very well. Just make sure to preheat the cast iron before welding.
Nice!
It is so satisfying to watch. I hope one day I will start building my own EV project car
🤞
I can’t wait for the final product
With your positivism and family support you will thrive ✨️
Thanks!
Awesome job! Also that old chevy truck would be an interesting build!
Thanks 👍
Darn, that is some quality work! Imagine fixing a salvage car with readily available parts, then multiply it by ev conversion challenged :). Crazy complex stuff.
Thanks for the comment!
With out a doubt my favorite channel currently. Your production quality is on par with other much larger channels I watch who have professional editors and other dedicated staff. I’d love to see the pickup conversion personally!
Wow, thank you!
Man you deserve
Millions of views
Someday you will be viral
Maybe 🤔
Amazing Work!
Thank you! Cheers!
Who the F did fire that guy? Great work and wish you all the best for your future 😊🤞🍀⚡️
Thanks Friend!
Great packaging, you clearly put some thought behind that. So e close calls between the fuses and the wall and the bus bar and the wall respectively make me uneasy though. I hope you're going to put a very good insulater in between that.
Can only imagine the excitement you are building towards that first drive one day, what an amazing project, totally in awe of what you are achieving here. Peace
Thanks Friend!
Everyone grab a 6-pack and take a drink every time Jeremy says Kinda/kindof. Then send Jeremy a $10 donation for every 12oz "soda" you get through during the video! :D Thanks for all you do Jeremy! I love watching your videos. They've so informative. I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to do this myself, but I hope do. I do similar wiring work on test aircraft for the military so I should have the skills if I have the right parts.
I especially appreciate how you show mistakes and corrections so that other know that it can/will happen and it's not the end of the world.
👍
oh man,, both those cars at the end are sweet options for a conversion as well, also another excellent video man!
Thanks! 👍
Excellent! It's crazy how a junction box goes from, "I have TONS of room!!" to, "I might need another junction box..."
Right?!
So many details and wires to keep track. It's amazing all the work you're putting in for even the battery boxes!
Thanks for the comment!
Very fascinating work and insanely meticulous attention to detail! 👍🏻😎
My vote is mga, model 3 complete rear subframe&irs, while under that long hood it should fit a decent size pack of 45-55kwhs.
Which I'd bet on that little car would do around 180-220+ miles of range.
Thanks for voting
You such amazing work. God bless, and stay safe.
Thanks, you too!
Love this project... So well realized...😎
I was watching how close the fuses to the back wall and started to doubt everything I learned in life 😂
Wow the detail on your work is absolutely amazing!! Can't wait to see it done and driving!🎉🎉😊😊❤
Thanks so much! 😊
Always enjoying the videos. Although I may never build my own EV I appreciate the depth of explanation you go through when producing the videos. Thanks sir.
Don't forget to top off all of your batteries before you do final assembly. Love the channel!!
Thank you for your detailed video explaining each step, the adjustments you have to make, and carefully assembling it. I like the use of threaded inserts, (metric or imperial?), to secure the connectors; obviously a little more time consuming initially but simplifies assembly and repair later one.
Since this is Mk 1 of your battery boxes, I'm guessing the subsequent projects will see enhanced, and more efficient assembly techniques. Only by actually creating and building this assemblies can the process be improved. The armchair experts lose out!!!
Please keep up the good work!
👍
The MG would def be a nice conversion to see.
beautiful work as always.
Thank you! Cheers!
Repair it with J-B Weld. :P@@ElectricSuperCar
Intrigued by your HV interlock circuit. One single signal that indicates all connectors are inserted is important. When I've worked with single wire safety circuits for industrial controls, trouble shooting is a headache. So, to provide additional diagnostic capability I incorporate a detection wire for each point in the loop. You accomplish this by picking up the signals into some part of your control system. I'd have to get more details of the control system you are using, but if there are extra I/O points and a means of configuring those inputs for diagnostics it should be possible. PM me the control system details and I could possibly take a look. I'm not at the point of building my own conversion since I have too many other projects!
Good work that you are describing this important part of the HV system.
Control system for the HVIL is the Orion 2 BMS
Fantastic work
Thank you! Cheers!
Nice clean work. 👍💪✌
Awesome 😎😎😎
Finally wiring done ✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻
Awesome management of wiring 🤩🤩🤩
Keep it up 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Thanks ✌️
Incredible work on the battery boxes, really impressive organisation!
Thank you very much!
You do remarkably good work without a mill - I'd save the cash and garage space and carry on as you are!
Fantastic stuff as always, always look forward to your videos coming out :) that wiring was amazing, looks like it took a while!
I'd say the MG A gets my vote for your next conversion, hope it works out!
Thanks again!
Good job!
Thank you! Cheers!
Dang dude! its coming together so well! i'm super happy to see some doors opening for you coming from these projects!
Thanks Friend!
Keep at it man! Your channel is going to take off sooner than later!
Hope so!
Yes the MGA!
This video is amazing, congrats on the level of detail and excellence!
Thank you very much!
I like both the old truck and the MGA better than the options in the last video! Out of the two, the old truck would be way more novel
Well done Jeremy! Maybe good idea will be that you bulid an Ford GT
Interesting 🤔
Those new candidate builds would be awesome. Maybe the truck since you have already done roadsters?
Thanks
Thanks for doing this. It's very interesting to see these conversion. I heard you say you were going to coat with truck bed spray liner. Please check to make sure it does not react to the liner, there is a person that I know who sprayed his pontoon boat float tanks and they corroded out putting holes in the tanks. Thanks again for the videos.
Great point!
Love the video, great progress! Keep up the great work ❤
Thank you! Will do!
Ufff i swet for some minutes until you cut the fuses a little bit 😅y
Nice work!
Thanks 😅
I really enjoy every video you post.. was surprised you didn't hit 30k on your last video. Keep up the awesome work!
So close!
Great work, Jeramy....
Your next goal should be...at 140k subscribers, you get yourself a work bench that can take the forces from the bench wise... 😅🤣
LOL!
Glad you're uploading more! you will get there.
I wonder if you can weld your vice back together?
Thanks for the detail in these videos -- fantastic inspiration while I'm working on my own conversion.
I'm interested in the HV connectors, ports, interlocks, passthroughs --- if you like them, could you share a link to the supplier?
HV connector were from metabee
I think you must put thermal past in the gaps between the cooling lines and the batteries
I will test to see
Thanks for another very interesting video. Link clicked :)
awesome🔥🔥🔥
Thanks 🔥
You should look at a onefinity cnc
I have printnc, which is badass and can cut everything but it’s a fully diy cnc… onefinity is great out the box.
I feel you can easily justify the expense just off the shipping from china on the plates alone.
If I were further along in my build I’d reach out… I’m building a car with a bmw v10 out back… wouldnt mind a ev hub motor setup out front… cest la vie… at this rate it’s 2-3yrs away to think about it
with all the post manufacture hole drilling in the case will you go back and complete the original cad models ?
Yes Bro...
Bless
God
Sincerely...Yours
Paul
Thanks Paul!
You should go for "30k likes" instead. If the viewers give more engagement that will boost it more than subcount. I think, no one really know how the algorithm works ;)
I recommend imho to make a cradle for the fuse that is attached to the connector,with time vibration and hard acceleration and cornering ,this fuse might fail.
The copper washer stack seems sketchy.
I Think it would be cool to do the chevy pickup
Slow and steady wins the race, great update Jeremy! This one is 26 minutes of video, how long did this take you to do in the garage?
Way too long!
25:34 @electricsupercar have you seen the Edison EV truck channel and his approach to EV work trucks? They are putting together a kit for converting smaller work trucks and pickup trucks to battery and electric motor powered with a diesel generator onboard to charge the batteries.
Super interesting approach and attitude about EVs of the future. Admittedly not your approach, but very interesting too.
Nice!
To answer your question a mill would be an excellent idea if you're going to continue to build on this scale. You'll wonder how you got along without it.
Just to clarify the contactor box design. Two fuses on the right are wired like that because you use both of them as a single main fuse? Motor fuses will be in the OEM tesla fuse holders and they will be outside of the box? (Are you going to use motor fuses? . If you are using motor fuses then do you know that the OEM Tesla Fusebox has no IPXX rating (I mean the one that is usually connected to the motor wires in for example 85D. Those are inside of the car in the original design) . It might be possible to make it semi watertight if you use sealant. But I would definitely put them somewhere where they can not get water because interlock connections are not water resistant.
A mill would have been useful before you started! If you plan on doing more, then it might be worth the investment, in both money and space, but you definitely will need to do an ROI to decide that. Nice work though, really coming along!
Bending bars is best done with a long adjustable wrench. It’s almost like it is the best imaginable tool with leverage.
Great tip!
Really nice work done on the battery box. you should invest in a mobile working desk so easy for you to works ont the battery box ;-)
Have a link?
What gauge wires are you using? Do they hold up with the high voltage? Sorry not an electrical person so may be a dumb question. Loving this series! All the best finding a new job this year!
All wires are different and will hold the appropriate amperage
Great build, very detailed, wish i did some of the things you did, like coating the bus bars. My HV PDU is much larger, wish i made it more compact like yours. Is your pre-charge relay rated for your battery voltage? I have had bad experiences with those panel mount automotive relays. Are you going to have a OBC ? What BMS are you going to use? Nice work on the videos.
The relay is one specified from EV West and is the same one that I have used on my previous build, so I think it will be fine. Yes I will have an OBC and I will be going with Orion for the BMS.
Nice work! What will the final weight on the batteries be?
Not sure yet
I am guessing about 200-300kg?@@ElectricSuperCar
Love the progress so far. I noticed that the high voltage connections looked like the weather seal wasn't against the aluminum during the shot around 12:06. It looks like the hole was cut too big for the seal to seat against the outside of the frame. Are you concerned with any weather or water intrusion for this part?
Yes
@@ElectricSuperCar Ok. If you want that weather seal to work, you might be able to get send cut send a press fit piece of aluminum to fit in there and maybe seal it with green loctite similarly used for engine cylinder sleeve installation.
Have you looked into being an installer for @edisonmotors truck retrofit kits? Seems right in your wheel house?
Hey Man , I wish you got enough likes for a Mill , A lathe ,a CNC , a plasma cutter , bending mandrels, a tyre changing jig and wheel balancer , DEFINATELY a spray booth and oven ... If I was rich , I'd just send 'em all anonymous-like . But I'm not . But you're legend 🤘
Now we're talkin'!
Are you going to test it for water tightness?
Probably not
Great work! How much do you expect the traction pack to weigh? Also total car weight? It should be very fast!
Not sure yet
Why can't you rubberize the inside of the battery box?
Is there going to be a design change with the clearance in the high voltage box in regards to those fuses touching the side of it? I would be thinking that even if you have a space rubber coat on it, vibrations would soon vibrate through it and short out against the aluminum
Yes, anywhere there are bus bars or fuses or any HV that are close to conductive surfaces will have insulators mounted to prevent touching.
Last video has 43k views
Hi, I notice that the two power fuse blades end are touching the casing. Is that mormal.
Which CCS will you use? ZeroEV/Fellten?
BTW parallel fuses are bad idea.
Yes the Fellten system
Also, is the battery box over engineered in terms of wall thickness or is that related to the thermal mass, I'm asking as you are putting this into a lightweight sports car so weight is critical ?
Probably
How are you going to cool the batteries with all that plastic in between? it looks like the battery modules are designed to be air-cooled.