Thank you Captcorajus for the awesome review and thanks to everyone for your continued support! I really love making these modules for everyone to enjoy! The Kickstarter literally ends tomorrow Tuesday 5/10/22 around 2pm so definitely grab it today to save that 10% I appreciate your help! Regarding the 5E COLOR MAPS: I forgot to mention that whichever version that a person buys Softcover or PDF only of the 5th edition one or the first edition one each option will still include the color or blue cover map in a PDF file and vice versa so in other words if somebody buys the first edition version only they're also going to get a PDF of maps that includes the 5th edition color maps as well and vice versa for the 5th edition book will also get the blue maps.
Another note regarding the color choices with the maps for any folks in the comments section that might be wondering, the 1E modules from the 1980s traditionally had the standard blue maps and modern present day 5E modules seem to always have the full color maps. That's why each book 1E or 5E for this module has that particular map done that way because I wanted to be accurate in style and design with both the classic look of the 1E and the modern look of 5E!
Personally, I find the old style map easier to parse, especially the grid. I also appreciate the use of classic TSR map symbols to highlight details like the bars in dungeon room 5 and the trap between areas 9 and 6. That sort of efficient information conveyance trumps prettiness for me any day of the week.
Also as someone who runs on a VTT the newer map is less VTT ready as the numbers on the page break verisimilitude, and go over into the rooms too much... Heck at least the old school one immediately conveys it is just a blueprint, and thus allows players to project their own vision over the proceedings. If anything they should both have a code in them for a claimable VTT (I.E. no overlay graphics) ready version of both maps... (Edit: Which apparently they did, so... neat.)
A DM could hand over the blue ink copy instead of the 5e one when the PCs use magic (divination), investigation (looking through old archives for the schematics made by the original necromancer), or Arcane Eye (mostly likely a rushed job, not necessarily staying long enough in each room for many details) to figure out the layout in advance. This way, the PCs may not know all the dangers of the dungeon, such as not knowing the slime in the pillar room might be dangerous. It may only work on a case-by-case basis, but it can have more novel uses than just helping the DM run the adventure. And the DM can even give them a damaged copy, just for a semi-authentic looking handout.
Thanks again awesome review I appreciate it! I forgot to mention that whichever version that a person buys Softcover or PDF only of the 5th edition one or the first edition one each option will still include the color or blue cover map in a PDF file and vice versa so in other words if somebody buys the first edition version only they're also going to get a PDF of maps that includes the 5th edition color maps as well and vice versa for the 5th edition book will also get the blue maps.
I honestly prefer running simple monochrome maps even for VTT play - it's easier and prettier to customize a lot of the time (I am a terrible artist), and I like the clarity and old-school feel of the simpler style as well.
If you're not prepared to paraphrase, another approach is to get the players to take turns reading, say, a paragraph each, assuming they're confident doing that. After all, it is the PCs who have access to those journals.
Great review. For me I prefer the old-school map it contains all of the relevant information without overloading me. I will definitely be picking this up.
Im honestly happy we can live in a world where we can have both styles of map exist. But I do agree as a player and a DM I like my rooms with color and objects to help my immersion and make it easier to guide my players. After all its easier to show then tell sometimes.
Totally agree - blue maps were great 40 years ago, need to update at least to a good B/W detailed map at the very least; also huge text dumps need to go; bullet points are much easier on the DM
Sounds like a fun adventure - I agree about paraphrasing such info dumps, or perhaps creating a handout for the players. As far as the maps go, for a printed version I tend to like simple so the blue works for me - virtually, of course, the color map is great. The publisher would be wise to just include the color (5e) map with the PDF of both versions (as a separate image file) that way those playing online (or those playing in person that want to print the map to show players) can do so.
Just started listening to a bunch of those Greyhawk D&D audiobooks as well, "White Plume Mountain," "Descent Into the Depths of the Earth," etc. Loved them as a young adult, but re-experiencing them today... oh boy. They are SO bad. lol. Just finished "Elminster: The Making of Mage" prior to starting these, and it was super cringe. Never actually read Pool of Radiance, though, but I played the classic goldbox game a bunch. I'm hesitant to buy any more of these, though. Haha.
@@WarhavenSC Justicar the Ranger! I bought those on iTunes. I like them because I had gone through those modules in the 90's and it brought me back. Not sure how Jus managed to defeat Llolth though lol. Must have rolled a bunch of crits behind the scenes. =)
Great review as always, Cap! Glad to hear the 5e version map pdfs will be included with the 1e version (I backed getting a copy of both versions anyway, love the old-school and new-school artwork that I've seen in the kickstarter campaign so far). As for the young necromancer's journal, I see it as an opportunity to make a cool physical handout for the players to peruse and mull over at the table, so material like that certainly isn't a deal-breaker for me. Looking forward to the full release!
You have to read through the "fine print" in the Kickstarter but both color and blue and white maps are included in any .pdf version you back in kickstarter.
10:55 The comparison of 1e and 5e stats that you're saying look "muddled" for 5e both take up the same line count on the page, and the character count has got to be nearly identical. They both look equally muddled to me, and the 1e version sure isn't taking advantage of any design shorthand when it lists out things like the usual raft of undead immunities item by item and the fact that it has a standard MR. Noting the skeletal damage mods is sort of fine, but in an undead-themed dungeon you don't need to endlessly repeat the "sleep, charm, hold, mental attacks" thing for every walking corpse-thing, just note that it's undead and be done with it.
@@captcorajus Agreed - which is why they don't need all the detail used here. In-text 1e stats should be AC, attack and damage numbers, HD and hp, and maybe a reminder of specials if they exist. Anything else can be handwaved or looked up if need be. Don't need or want to know size, standard MR or even movement speed unless it's part of a special. Just give the fighty data and stick a full writeup in back.
The two different map styles are clearly done for marketing. It's designed to make grognards buy _both_ editions, in order to have the better map style available to them. That's why I'm glad I already pirated both versions! Snooginz!
No; always go with the traditional blue maps. Not a fan of all these new fangled colored maps. The color maps in the updated version of Tegel Manor are pretty, but nearly useless. I pulled out my originals when we played it.
Bad maps are hardly an innovation of the modern day, and color maps have been the norm for more than half the lifespan of D&D at this point. Calling them "new-fangled" is just delusional.
Thank you Captcorajus for the awesome review and thanks to everyone for your continued support! I really love making these modules for everyone to enjoy! The Kickstarter literally ends tomorrow Tuesday 5/10/22 around 2pm so definitely grab it today to save that 10% I appreciate your help! Regarding the 5E COLOR MAPS: I forgot to mention that whichever version that a person buys Softcover or PDF only of the 5th edition one or the first edition one each option will still include the color or blue cover map in a PDF file and vice versa so in other words if somebody buys the first edition version only they're also going to get a PDF of maps that includes the 5th edition color maps as well and vice versa for the 5th edition book will also get the blue maps.
Glad I backed!
@@jimmd68 Thanks for your help and support I appreciate it!
Another note regarding the color choices with the maps for any folks in the comments section that might be wondering, the 1E modules from the 1980s traditionally had the standard blue maps and modern present day 5E modules seem to always have the full color maps. That's why each book 1E or 5E for this module has that particular map done that way because I wanted to be accurate in style and design with both the classic look of the 1E and the modern look of 5E!
I have already backed this kickstarter.....can't wait to get my copy for the table!!
Can't wait to get these new products. I love your stuff!
Thank you for the kind words about the maps.
Personally, I find the old style map easier to parse, especially the grid. I also appreciate the use of classic TSR map symbols to highlight details like the bars in dungeon room 5 and the trap between areas 9 and 6. That sort of efficient information conveyance trumps prettiness for me any day of the week.
Also as someone who runs on a VTT the newer map is less VTT ready as the numbers on the page break verisimilitude, and go over into the rooms too much... Heck at least the old school one immediately conveys it is just a blueprint, and thus allows players to project their own vision over the proceedings.
If anything they should both have a code in them for a claimable VTT (I.E. no overlay graphics) ready version of both maps... (Edit: Which apparently they did, so... neat.)
A DM could hand over the blue ink copy instead of the 5e one when the PCs use magic (divination), investigation (looking through old archives for the schematics made by the original necromancer), or Arcane Eye (mostly likely a rushed job, not necessarily staying long enough in each room for many details) to figure out the layout in advance. This way, the PCs may not know all the dangers of the dungeon, such as not knowing the slime in the pillar room might be dangerous.
It may only work on a case-by-case basis, but it can have more novel uses than just helping the DM run the adventure. And the DM can even give them a damaged copy, just for a semi-authentic looking handout.
I backed this one for the 1E version. :-) I love these retro AD&D-style modules.
Thanks again awesome review I appreciate it! I forgot to mention that whichever version that a person buys Softcover or PDF only of the 5th edition one or the first edition one each option will still include the color or blue cover map in a PDF file and vice versa so in other words if somebody buys the first edition version only they're also going to get a PDF of maps that includes the 5th edition color maps as well and vice versa for the 5th edition book will also get the blue maps.
Would have been a good compromise to have the map be on a poster and one side be full collour and the other the blue ink.
Art, as subjective as it is, only requires to be serviceable for the OSR aesthetic, which this editions exceeds beautifully. Very well done.
I honestly prefer running simple monochrome maps even for VTT play - it's easier and prettier to customize a lot of the time (I am a terrible artist), and I like the clarity and old-school feel of the simpler style as well.
If you're not prepared to paraphrase, another approach is to get the players to take turns reading, say, a paragraph each, assuming they're confident doing that. After all, it is the PCs who have access to those journals.
Great review. For me I prefer the old-school map it contains all of the relevant information without overloading me. I will definitely be picking this up.
Im honestly happy we can live in a world where we can have both styles of map exist. But I do agree as a player and a DM I like my rooms with color and objects to help my immersion and make it easier to guide my players. After all its easier to show then tell sometimes.
Thanks.
Totally agree - blue maps were great 40 years ago, need to update at least to a good B/W detailed map at the very least; also huge text dumps need to go; bullet points are much easier on the DM
Sounds like a fun adventure - I agree about paraphrasing such info dumps, or perhaps creating a handout for the players. As far as the maps go, for a printed version I tend to like simple so the blue works for me - virtually, of course, the color map is great. The publisher would be wise to just include the color (5e) map with the PDF of both versions (as a separate image file) that way those playing online (or those playing in person that want to print the map to show players) can do so.
He is! See pinned comment!
Yes I am definitely! See pinned!
Color version. Great Vid
Yes I am first! Been listening to Pool of Radiance audiobook, I forgot how great that story is! Thanks for the vid Cap!
Just started listening to a bunch of those Greyhawk D&D audiobooks as well, "White Plume Mountain," "Descent Into the Depths of the Earth," etc. Loved them as a young adult, but re-experiencing them today... oh boy. They are SO bad. lol. Just finished "Elminster: The Making of Mage" prior to starting these, and it was super cringe.
Never actually read Pool of Radiance, though, but I played the classic goldbox game a bunch. I'm hesitant to buy any more of these, though. Haha.
@@WarhavenSC Justicar the Ranger! I bought those on iTunes. I like them because I had gone through those modules in the 90's and it brought me back. Not sure how Jus managed to defeat Llolth though lol. Must have rolled a bunch of crits behind the scenes. =)
Great review as always, Cap! Glad to hear the 5e version map pdfs will be included with the 1e version (I backed getting a copy of both versions anyway, love the old-school and new-school artwork that I've seen in the kickstarter campaign so far). As for the young necromancer's journal, I see it as an opportunity to make a cool physical handout for the players to peruse and mull over at the table, so material like that certainly isn't a deal-breaker for me. Looking forward to the full release!
That's a really GREAT idea!
Thanks for your continued support and yes great idea!
@@ILoveEvadingTax Yes I agree next time I will make it clearer in the next project video! Thanks for your feedback!
You have to read through the "fine print" in the Kickstarter but both color and blue and white maps are included in any .pdf version you back in kickstarter.
Yep, see the pinned comment from Dark Wizard Games. :)
@@captcorajus Got it!
@@drwatkins68 Yes good point I'll make it clearer in the next KS!
Great review like always, keep up the great work!
I totally disagree about the blue maps. I would be bummed if I bought a module claiming to be OSR and it didn't have the blue maps.
Keep the blue one as well. Old School. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Yes definitely thanks!
Would you say that OSRIC is a compilation of 1e and 2e AD&D rules? Just now hearing of this system...
No. Its strickly 1E. There's an indepth review of the system already on the channel.
@@captcorajus awesome, thanks... ill give it a watch
blue map :)
Wow this sounds really cool. I'll look that up on drivethrurpg
10:55 The comparison of 1e and 5e stats that you're saying look "muddled" for 5e both take up the same line count on the page, and the character count has got to be nearly identical. They both look equally muddled to me, and the 1e version sure isn't taking advantage of any design shorthand when it lists out things like the usual raft of undead immunities item by item and the fact that it has a standard MR. Noting the skeletal damage mods is sort of fine, but in an undead-themed dungeon you don't need to endlessly repeat the "sleep, charm, hold, mental attacks" thing for every walking corpse-thing, just note that it's undead and be done with it.
1E stats are MEANT to be short hand listed. 5E's more detailed abilities don't translate well using a similar scheme was my point.
Otherwise, yeah.
@@captcorajus Agreed - which is why they don't need all the detail used here. In-text 1e stats should be AC, attack and damage numbers, HD and hp, and maybe a reminder of specials if they exist. Anything else can be handwaved or looked up if need be. Don't need or want to know size, standard MR or even movement speed unless it's part of a special. Just give the fighty data and stick a full writeup in back.
Is there a second edition pathfinder version of this module?
no
No but you can find a PDF of conversion info here on our website: www.darkwizardgames.com/resources.php
The two different map styles are clearly done for marketing. It's designed to make grognards buy _both_ editions, in order to have the better map style available to them.
That's why I'm glad I already pirated both versions!
Snooginz!
See pinned comment.
No; always go with the traditional blue maps. Not a fan of all these new fangled colored maps. The color maps in the updated version of Tegel Manor are pretty, but nearly useless. I pulled out my originals when we played it.
Bad maps are hardly an innovation of the modern day, and color maps have been the norm for more than half the lifespan of D&D at this point. Calling them "new-fangled" is just delusional.