"As you can see ... the tires are super hot." ~18°C = super hot ??? Sorry, but if you use a Flir-Cam, you should know how to use it and how to interpret the data right. 'Super-bright' does not mean 'hot' if you use an IR-Cam in Auto-adjusting mode, where it automatically adjusts its color-range to the measured temperature-range of the actual frame. In this mode the 'hottest' spot in the actual frame will always be shown as super-bright, regardless if the hotspot is 200°C or if it's just -5°C (temperature of the hotspot is shown in the top right).
I was thinking the same thing. Seems over exited about colors. I agree its interesting to see the difference, but this seems a bit over exitement without much attention to detail.
but isn't the actual motor on the leaf much lower, and she is pointing to camera on the charger? still likely cooler, but the comparison could have been more fair
@@SD-tj5dh people like him seems to think we can just carry on like normal I have a boss that acts the same I've given up trying to point out issues with the oil industry and where mankind is heading if we carry on
@@AEON. I think you should sit down, work out power efficiencies and actually research your facts instead of writing this sort of thing as you evidently don't know what you are talking about. Science and engineering is considerably harder than curating a 43 video pro-Trump video list. Your posting above is both inaccurate and profoundly racist.
I normally enjoy fully charged but this whole video seemed very pointless. You should of looked at the motor in the electric motor to compare it directly to a ICE engine. I really don't get what the point was of this video except for it being a sponsored video by the camera company.
Yes I agree. Obviously the video was made to promote the product, the camera. In my opinion it was more about the camera than about the subject which was energy loss. Certainly not one of the best episodes of fully charged .
And she's so incompetent that she hasn't placed the temp meter from the FLIR on the exhaust pipe, she was just looking at its colours going wow that's like glowing hot.
Egern Egern maybe it’s a bad video but I wouldn’t call it pseudoscience. The average EV is something like 85% efficient charger to wheel and even more so at the motor alone which is what is being shown here. On the other hand, ICE engines generally range from 20%-30% efficient and the other 75% of energy is lost to sound and heat. So I would argue that it is a very good indication of efficiency.
It would have been interesting to take a look at the electric motors, inverters, and controller units. These consume energy to do work and unless I am greatly mistaken, they will not be 100% efficient and will probably radiate heat. No doubt less than a turbo on a diesel.
The inverter in the leaf is below the big black box under the bonnet (together with the dc to dc converter) and the motor is right below the inverter. So while she sadly didn't mention it, we can tell from the video that the unit is producing a bit of heat but not a huge amount.
Batteries are made by slave children in Africa? Have you been vaping bio-diesel? These batteries are made by machines in factories, you simply can't 'hand-roll' a li-ion battery like a hand-rolled cigar.. Of the ten biggest lithium mines, only two are in Africa (Mali and Zimbabwe) and both are funded by Australian mining companies to create jobs so people can enjoy a higher standard of living. Five of the biggest lithium mines are all located in Australia, and the remaining three are in the US, Mexico and Canada. In all of these mines work is done by machines, not by barefoot slaves with a pick. And the reason diesel generators are used to power electric motors on ships and in trains, is because they would need to haul an awful lot of batteries otherwise. And no, diesel engines are NOT more efficient than electric motors, don't spout Dunning-Kruger all over and do research first.
Tesla's are are like 90% efficient while ICE's can barely break 50%. Combustion is just such a wasteful reaction. Hybrids fair better but really not much better.
For most people IR camera images are just nice pictures, because it is counter intuitive that the same color means different temperature all the time (due to automatic temperature range). When you are trying to demonstrate temperature difference between 2 things, it is useful to disable automatic temperature range and set range for example from 0 to 200°C in case of cars. Only then you would be able to see how much less heat is produced by EV and how much engine bay produces. For example, in this video EV seems to have hotter tires than ICE. But it is only due to automatic temperature range of camera. Please do similar video again and let someone experienced to to IR camera shots. Such video would be epic!
Its also the same when left wingers say that global warming is happening then they realize it's a better lie if we tell the public that its not longer global warming but climate change.
Very bad effort I'm afraid. I normally enjoy FC but this episode is making more bad than good for the case! - Did not compare electric motor to combustion motor - combustion motor actually needs that heat for efficient combustion (that's why you have short circuit if coolant) - so it's not "doing nothing" Etc etc Please do make more effort when playing with toys for your sponsor/patron money. I'd like to see a second attempt on this one - more informative and not shot in a rush...
Things like locking the thermal scale between cars would help. White equals hottest, but it isn't helpful when you switch between a 10deg and a 50deg difference.
And a lithium iron battery needs heat to work efficiently, which is why I'm glad Jonny Smith is now taking care to note what sort of battery management new cars are using
Well all heat is lost energy in an engine, any heat an engine gives off is energy that was not transformed into mechanical energy. Hence why engines are rated in thermal efficiency - how much of the heat energy is transformed into mechanical energy (or work output). I dont exactly know about electrical motors, but in general you'll still have heat losses from the battery, the transformer, and the motor itself (for example how your mobile phone heats up when you watch long videos or similar). But yeah this video was poppycock, what would be more interesting to see is for example comparisons of wheel heat in similar models after breaking - ICE cars use disc brakes which are total loss energy for the vehicle (apart from mild hybrids), everything gets turned into waste heat, while an EV will usually transform a big chunk of that energy back into power - but you also have the vast difference in weight between a comparable ICE car and EV, which might tip the scale back towards an ICE car at more aggressive braking. And there are many other things that would be interesting to see with a FLIR camera.
it's like she has never seen an infra-red camera before... while they are remarkable toys, they can also be used to look for electrical shorts on the EV. Follow wires, look for hot connections, etc. Very handy gadget.
And the Police use them for finding the bad guy hiding in the bushes, the Fire brigade for finding the hot-spots in thick smoke, where visible light is nil. etc, etc, etc.
IR cameras are definitely fun to play around with. Glass, for example acts like a perfect mirror, so point it at a window and you'll see a reflection of yourself. A greenhouse turns into a rather trippy hall of mirrors (and demonstrates how greenhouses work). Other objects are almost completely transparent, like black plastic bin liners. Ask someone to hold one up in front of themselves and you'll be able to see their face perfectly through the plastic.
1:10 Chrome is not cold, but reflective. One of the drawbacks of thermal cameras, you need to know the limits. Also at the wheel disk, reflection of heat can be seen, as heat for sure is not like that..
This^^ it's most important to ensure the surfaces have a similar sensitivity as mentioned! For IR camera work, actual surface temperatures are correlated across to other direct contact sensing methods, and often, all surfaces are given an "equal" emissivity by being painted matt black!
@@maxtorque2277 Painted and oxidized surfaces are nearly identical in emissivity to other common materials, like plastic and other organic materials. Anodized alumin(i)um is blacker than tarmac in the IR. If you are doing a quantitative, rather than comparative, analysis, having a consistent target would be helpful. But then, you don't need an imaging IR camera.
@@Markle2k Agreed, as a thermographer, and an electrician, we often attach ordinary paper sticker to shiny metal electrical connections (when off of course!!) to allow us to get a reading on anything other than the reflected radiation in the environment. It was an interesting example of this in the video, that the surface of the brake rotors were as reflective as they were compared to the oxidised outer edge.
@@kiwiskiz I surmise that the surface of brake rotors is rough compared to the wavelength? I looked up hematite, the non-hydrated version of rust, aka Fe2O3, and it has a surprisingly high emissivity of 0.85. Cast iron, which is what most brake rotors are made of, has an emissivity of 0.65. I assumed it would be down in the range of cast aluminum at 0.2-0.3. I guess, aside from its relatively high thermal conductivity, that is what makes it a good material for brake rotors. Nickel-plated steel and chrome, on the other hand, are at 0.1, just over five times that of polished gold.
I liked this video. No one claimed it quantified efficiency differences. It was a fun romp with an expensive toy. Yes, professional heat people use the same equipment for studies, but just bopping around looking at stuff is a hoot. Of course it’s blindingly obvious that a diesel car will give off more heat. Efficiency differences are due to more than heat, but wasted heat is a big one. Let’s focus on curiosity and play and stop acting like we are God’s gift to intelligent discourse.
As an owner of both a Nissan Leaf and a 2007 Focus Diesel (in black no less) I found this episode most informative! Ironically I've always considered the Leaf warmer as the climate control heats up near instantly while in the Focus you freeze to death for the first ten minutes in the winter waiting for it to warm up.
Check out her knees. They are hotter (sorry) than the car tyres. Take- away = leggings waste energy. Good point about tyre treads. IR thermometer is a good way to see if you tracking is correct.
She is actually a scientist (Oceanographer), but she's spent a lot of time presenting science on TV and to kids so we get this rather g-whizz approach. Fully charged does aim fairly low on the 'actual science' front, so this is probably about right, but I would have liked more detail (like why does the back of both the Tesla and and the leaf have significant warm areas?). She should also have explained that you get a lot of misleading things from this game because you often see reflections (so the shiny Tesla door handles look cold because they are reflecting the cold surroundings, not because they are much colder than the door they are in. To be fair she does mention reflections, and it's hard to be rigorously accurate when extemporising to camera (just try it sometime :-)
It also doesn't have to be. Did you expect something academic and if so why did you? A simple showing of different drive-trains and it was perfectly fine.
@Writer B.L. Alley A bit of fun for sure, but did we really need 9 hours of video footage of the presenter repeating herself every 30 seconds to ram that "fun" home? Surely an extremely brief video would have surficed?
Fully Charged focusses on the future of energy AND transport, and while we love electric vehicles, that doesn't only mean cars. If you like the more scientific episodes with Dr. Helen Czerski, check out her episodes on Batteries - th-cam.com/video/OlBZ51QLEfs/w-d-xo.html and on Fusion - th-cam.com/video/M1RsHQCMRTw/w-d-xo.html. More info on everything Fully Charged, including news, reviews, blogs, merchandise and tickets to our live events can be found at www.FullyCharged.Show
What subject is she a doctor in? ICE: pointing heat sensitive camera at engine. EV: Pointing camera at the same place as on the ICE, but where there´s no engine. Conclusion: EV are more efficient.
At least it wasn't into the frunk of a tesla! The demonstration wasn't at all scientific but there is an electric motor in that compartment, putting out heat.
The fact about Lithium Ion batteries needing to be at 25c is Incorrect also as new evidence suggests rapidly heating a battery to 60c can result in a massively reduced charge time thus being able to do more miles in a set time.
Well it isn't, because at 8.12 where he makes this statement about source-to-wheel efficiency, there is no comparison to the diesel engine. At least those 'facts' detracted from her dreadful presenting voice.
@@sjcsystems White car reflects the light,black car absorbs it,you don't have to be a scientiest to know that,even on a relatively overcast sky.They've ,,missed,, this point
I’m amazed at how many people dislike this video, watch the whole thing and then complain about it in the comments. Do you people not have better things to do? I quite enjoyed it, physicists are excited about about different wavelengths of light, it’s a bit weird but it’s quite nice to see the difference between the vehicles. What I thought was most interesting was the difference in tire temperature. So much for EV’s having increased tire wear - as she said follow the energy
Very nice video. Very enjoyable to watch, and I was impressed at how black the sky is in some shots. Thanks. Does the IR sensor need to be cooled before use?
It would be great to get a closer look, maybe with visiting a shop garage and talking with a mechanic who knows all about the ICE car (and also talk to an Electric Car mechanic) so then we can really see exactly where the hot points are.
Drunken Hobo heat is still wasted energy (other than the small amount we use for heating in the winter) we just want kinetic and electrical, the whole point is ice is not efficient for what we are trying to do
It may be fractionally more effective when it is hotter, but it is still in incredibly inefficient system. 30% efficiency is, I believe, better expressed by saying 70% of every dollar/pound/euro you pay for does not move the vehicle and is wastes as heat and toxic gas
ICE cars use more energy to cool down the heat from the engine. The truth is that the best ICE cars only get about 30% efficiency. So calling an ICE car efficient is not correct at all. ICE cars are inherently inefficient.
the emisstivity needs to be set correctly when using the Flir infrared camera to measure the temperature of different surfaces. the battery will give of heat which can be seen reflected off the road.
"The shiny metal" is not cool it's the same temp as all the exterior just the infrared camera has a problem discerning temp of a reflective object. The same with dark spots on the tires it's just water, not some way of telling which part of tire touched the road.
So the awnser to the amount of energy wasted is..........lots i suppose cause. that was just a mess around with a camera, didn't really awnser the title of the video.
Am pro EV, efficiency and making the world better - this was a fun video but it should be redone to demonstrate that the overall conclusions are correct while taking away the bias. 1) when the cars drive up - you can already see that the temperature is different (based on car colour) - cars should be the same colour..... 2) Plastic hood covering engine of ICE car should be removed - this will show a clearer picture of heat 3) you also need to focus camera on electric motor - it will still be hot but not quiet as hot... 4) cars need to have the same year of manufacture - both should be relatively new 5) the crosshairs of the camera- this is the point that is reflected in the temperature readout - the video was all over the place and did not focus on hot spots 6) the cars need to be running for at least 30 min at at least 50miles per hour (using brakes and the like) - this will also show heat lost in braking vs regen braking
You are right in that the level of detail should be measured. But! This a vid that the average person could see without any techno jargon. It worked. Without the detail the difference was obvious.
Thanks John - fully agree with you, the video was good and it certainly will start a good conversation. But we can all do better - Top Gear were called out for a biased programming - I think we should not fall down the same path.
1:15 "The shiny metal bits are quite cool" They might be but what the camera shows is the reflection of the sky which is very cool (Infrared gets reflected just like visible light)
Hey Doc you need to take that IR camera to the nearest coal power plant because that's where most of the electricity comes from. They are less than 50% efficient, so you'll get plenty of pretty colors.
When ev cars are more common and people crash and wrap them around poles and stuff the lithium battery will cause fires. Your thermal camera will pick up the heat than.
Interesting at 6.30 your shins are shining white. I've always needed a scientist to tell me that a radiator radiates heat. Hold on....you pointed the camera at the diesel engine and claimed it was old tech, and pointed it at the same space on the Leaf....which doesn't have an engine. How about pointing it at the electric motors underneath where the work is being done, work consuming energy and inevitably wasting some as heat? I was expecting something a bit more scientific.
@@michac3796 She has her Bachelors and Masters in Physics and her Doctorate in explosives physics, concentrating on using high speed photography to capture the invisible world that our pokey, slow brains miss. Her postdoctoral work was in bubble physics and heat flow in oceanography. Which means she's still curious about how much is left to learn, while you exhibit the complacency of ignorance residing on the left side of the Dunning-Kruger curve.
@@Markle2k While i trust you're not misleading me, i still wonder why she obviously simplified her observations to the point of falsehood. But thank you for contributing to the discussion.
@@michac3796 Why would I try to mislead you?Her details are readily searchable online. She's a research Fellow at UCL. You can find her Cambridge doctoral thesis in their catalog and look up her name on Google Scholar to see her other research papers.
You don't need a thermal camera to answer this. An ICE use in cars have around 30% efficiency, with newer designs pushing 40%. The transmission has about 80% efficiency, higher for CVT and manual transmissions. So that's 25 to 30% efficiency overall for an ICEV. In winter conditions that is bumped up by the use of waste heat for cabin heating. In round numbers, the heating load is about 5000 watts, or about 6 HP. So in a small car, with a 100 hp engine, that's a 6% efficiency boost (higher, actually, because the engine rarely operates at max power). So let's round that to potential ICEV efficiency of 30 to 40% best case in winter driving conditions. Add a hybrid system to the ICEV and, of course, that efficiency goes up. Now, an EV has battery charging and discharging efficiency around 90% for good implementations, high at higher charge voltages, and the electric motor is also in around 90% efficiency. So that's 3*90% = 72% efficiency for the EV. Add a heating load and that might be reduced to below 70% efficiency. So an EV is about 2 to 3 times more efficiency than and ICEV. The worse case scenario (or best case, depending on your perspective) of and high efficiency ICEV hybrid design operating in severe cold compared to an EV they begin to approach each other in efficiency, but the EV will continue to be more efficient. There is a limit were a very high efficiency ICEV (possibly hybrid) operating in extreme cold will match an EV in efficiency.
Why the rants about the word hood and bonnet? The vast majority of English speakers also understand American even if we can't speak it. Fully Charged is a global channel, so must also cater to colonial and Antipodean viewers.
The glow is “emissivity”. Materials emit different thermal radiation. The “white” is saturation. You can only measure the thermal conduction and convection. Or you could just touch things.
Most organic materials have near-blackbody emissivity in the infrared. Paint, rubber, plastic, etc. In fact, most common materials have IR emissivities in the 0.9 range. It's bare metals, especially polished, shiny bits, that have extremely low emissivities. Except for anodized aluminum (and other metal oxides), which has a higher emissivity than asphalt.
The glow is NOT emissivity. The glow is electromagnetic radiation in the infrared portion of the spectrum. Emissivity is a measure of the amount of radiation given off for a given temperature. The camera is of course measuring that thermal radiation.
BTW, a quick look at the net energy of each car tells you all you need to know! Ie the Leaf and Focus are, broadly, similar cars in terms of their "Roadload" is the energy required to move them along, but there fuel consumption tells you the true story: Leaf at 4 miles per kWh (15.5 kWh/100km) Focus at 50 mpg is 1.2 miles per kWh (53.6 kWh/100km) Basically, for the same energy, the Leaf can travel pretty much 4 times as far as the Focus! (and if we are talking short journeys where the focus must warm up (and hence we must put energy into the actual structure of the engine and powertrain that never gets to the wheels to do that) and where it will do around 25 mpg, the leaf is 8x better......)
Is a short journey really twice as bad? (How short is short for that value to be accurate?). We have of course known for a long time that EVs are about 4 times as efficient in local energy->movement conversion - it's their killer advantage.
@@Wookey. Take a typical engine, with a mass of around 200 kG, including 15 litres of coolant and 5 litres of water. Just warming that from 10 degC to 70 degC , takes approximately 4.2 kWh, enough on it's own to move the EV 1 mile away! And of course, there is the gearbox as well (heavy & lossy), and the fact that when cold, and ICE is even less efficient because it must burn extra fuel to get it's exhaust after-treatment to operating temperature as quickly as possible, and when cold, all the many moving and sliding surfaces are experiencing high frictional losses AN EV powertrain by comparison is MORE efficient when it is cold (because restive and switching losses are smaller !!) NOTE, EV's range falls when cold, not because they get less efficient, but because the available battery energy capacity falls, and thinks like hotel loads (heating etc) add to higher aero and rolling losses. This means you can't drive as far, but in terms of the actual efficiency of the car, EVs broadly are as efficient across all temperatures!
Not your finest work, fully charged. Blindly pointing an infra red camera at an EV doesn't exactly feel scientific. Pointing it at the battery packs, which are kept cool to stop the batteries from exploding, and then randomly poke around under the bonnet rather than actually getting the temperature of the motors (which would have been hot)? Why did you bother?
Not really useful as the motors where not filmed and the batteries hardly viewed. Was more about play than science. Having said that, I don't think that Dr Helen Czerski has access to the equipment that would have allowed recording of the electric motors, so was limited in what could be filmed. At the end of the show, there was footage of e-bikes that showed the heat the electric motors generate. Might be worth borrowing that camera again when there is the equipment available to see the electric motors and the temperatures of the charging batteries (especially the water cooled ones.)
9:50 A shot with the sky being -18°C. There are materials that only radiate where the atmosphere has a frequency gap. This way they can radiate through the atmosphere directly to space. If you put them into direct sunlight , they actually cool down.
I'm not saying that it is the explanation, but -18 C (0 F) is about right for the skin temperature of the Earth as seen from space. That's the layer of the atmosphere where upwelling and downwelling radiation match each other.
Seems simplistic to talk about black versus white. How about talking about the actual or relative temperature represented by the IR camera colors: white, yellow, orange?
@@benjaminford9932 Sure whenever there is a negative comment about a woman someone must be a misogynist. As if when we need to comment about someone and it happens to be a female we should only make sure it's positive. Fucked up logic. She clearly has NO CLUE. She hasn't figured out that the center point is the reference point to take a reading and also that this thing has a programmable scale that you need to take into consideration before you make claim that something is "super hot" if it appears "white" in the display. According do your logic should I guess that you are a gay-snowflake or just an idiot? The latter is what matters
The ICE car is painted black, which absorbs heat. White reflects heat. If you look at the rear of the leaf, the black painted portion of the truck lid is hotter than the white. This test should have been done with two cars of the same color. Physics is cool!
Sorry, this was essentially an advert for a camera. The diesel "lava" engine was the same colour as your knees. We learned nothing we didn't know. Combustion creates heat,. Cooling systems get hot. Brakes get really hot. EVs are efficient.
Great video, but I wish you had pointed the camera at the bottom of the Leaf stack of gear under the hood where the electric motor is. Also, it would have been nice to show the difference in the temperature of the brakes after a stop test. My guess is that the regenerative braking system would be cooler.
Um, okay, ice's produce more heat than an electric motor, and battery. Who don't know DAT!. We have known that internal combustion engines are only 40% efficient for the past 100+ years, but the power to weight ratio makes them quite useful. Now, put both cars in a winter location at -5 Celsius (23F), for 5 hours,before starting; then drive them and see which produces the most heat quickest, and, how far will they both go,doing 55 mph(88 kph) before needing to refuel. Then do the same test in the summer location at 35 celsius (95F) for 5 hours, before starting; which can maintain a cool interior of 20 celsius (68F) and how far will they go doing 55 mph (88kph) before refueling. Now, I think electric cars are the future, but the transition can not be fast, due to the economics, of shutting down fossil fuel system, on a global scale.
And if you point the little X in the middle at a thing the number at the top left will tell you the temperature of the thing. OK, I admit. I wanted to grab the camera and actually see some numbers, especially along the Tesla battery.
New hardware always has a steep learning curve. I wanted to see the camera shoot under the car while it was moving, but I think the people that lent the camera would have had kittens.
It's a bit of fun, really. Relevant bit starts @ 7:55 where it suggests what a heat pump ICEs really are. Don't draw serious conclusions from this. Just watch the pretty pictures 😁😎
If we call any total loss above 10% "significant" then start looking for power regulation losses in an EV, DC-AC conversion losses (and potentially back to some DC again), electric motor efficiency and next the transmission losses. These all were invisible in the video. The FLIR images from the Tesla showed a very hot (relative to the environment) edge on the boot and this is above its regulation-conversion and electric motor. Transmission losses will be worse in the ICE car that also suffers from the non-friction related power-vector decomposition losses in a transmission chain more so than the EV (I guess). In the classic atomic model, we can call the flow of electrons - electricity - another form of friction and it causes heat. Here we get to the production and transportation of energy. For each kWh we put on the road, what is the total - not just the kWh to burn rubber, but also the kWh to get these kWh there. Just transporting electricity through a power line has its losses, even if we do not include the energy invested in setting up the cable infrastructure. In the end, what about the batteries? Are these an environmental disaster waiting to happen? Mankind had no interest to ask and answer such questions when it grew to a billion or so ICE. We are not going to do that again, are we? Yes, let's go back to the Interbellum when more EV drove around, at least in certain areas, than ICE vehicles - >and< answer these questions. And, let's look at efficiency more in this way: my nice 4-door sedan does 3.5 litre diesel per 100 km between 90 and 120 km/h (80.7 mi/UK gallon or 67.2 mi/US gallon at speeds between 62 mph -10%..+20%) with regular tires. My previous winter tires did about the same. Then new winter tires were mounted: the 3.5 went to 5 litre: an increase of 42.9%. (Flat country, no heavy wind, drag from other cars not too far away, on cruise control.) EV get tired from these bad rubber effects too.
Now go and look at a power station. The temperature out of cooling towers is only a few degrees above ambient but the heat volume is huge. At least 30% of the gas burnt goes straight out the cooling system. If the plant is running at part load the losses get even worse.
FLIR are great machines, I use one to check circuits and what components are overheating. There are things to remember using these, they are relative so white could be just 20c or a 100c depending on the environment around it, the scale changes. Also heat can be reflected or insulated by a surface, I once tried to get the heat of a tool behind a poly-carbonate hood but the hood was insulating so I couldn't get a good reading. It does show where ICE cars lose their energy, all that heat could be used for driving the wheels. In an EV lots more energy is used to move rather than being dissipated as heat.
8:45 in a diesel engine, temperature is actually doing something to help the car run... It helps ignite the fuel. Yes there is a waste of energy, that is true though.
Why do people get so angry over absolutely nothing? Why get so upset over a ten minute video? And if it did upset you, why did you watch the whole thing? People are properly crazy.
It's very rare I thumb down one of your videos, but this was basically just one big long thermal camera advert and well below par your usual quality of video - sorry.
Nice to see my supersized red creation 25 seconds in the background at the start not to mention the other two... I hope FC will release some more of the interview footage of Johnny with the hacky racers - was so funny to record... and would certainly like to come back next year
I"m a huge fan of Helen but damn it why couldn't she actually hold the camera over some of those hot parts to see their real temperatures. She was more intrigued by the colours than the stats (did she consume something special before the event hahaha!). The wheels / tires / brake pads were roasting hot and to this day I don't know what temperature even though that camera could tell us. It's absolutely obvious they'd be warmer than the rest, the main calliper brakes are always fitted to the front of a car where braking is most efficient and brakes use friction, the front tires for that reason use their friction with the surface to slow down and in turn generate heat (and they also absorb heat from the hot stuff all around them)...
But c’mon...I’m guessing they had so much info at the event, that they were trying to decide what to leave-out, and THIS gets 10 minute of coverage?? I feel they are underestimating the intelligence of their audience here.
@@AEON. looooneeey! How does one 'IR baldness' comment lead to this screed of madness? Interesting idea that a video about heat in vehicles could be described as 'pushing hatred' (in capitals, no less. You sir, need help, beautifully illustrating here what's wrong with the bottom half of the internet.
Really won't make even the tiniest difference... An ICE car made yesterday hasn't dropped it's combustion temperatures compared to 10 years ago... If you COMBUST something you bring it to HOT combustible temperatures so by definition an ICE car will be an order of magnitude hotter than a 85 to 95% efficient EV.
I guess it is more of a case of "Do you want to borrow this cool camera" rather than money changing hands. I'm very much in favour of companies lending their best products for use on TH-cam channels as it lets us see just how well, or otherwise, they perform.
An infra-red camera is suggested to be one of the possible features of the next generation of mobile (cell) phones. I keep looking for this as all new models seem to be the same as current phones.
I don't usually read the comments, but I suspect there is some conscious or unconscious sexism going on here. While this may not be my favourite episode, this woman is a highly intelligent, educated person who I expect is qualified far beyond many of the commenters, and this level of criticism is neither deserved or warranted.
Could have been interesting to have the cars go 0-100 km/h a few times and have the EV use regen for breaking and the ICE car to use breaks. Then film the breaks and document that the EV is much cooler there as well.
This was the most scientific thing ever. I figured we were going to use physics and measure the energy in a gallon of gas, and then the kinetic energy it produced in moving a mass (ignoring aerodynamics), then do the same for electric and compare to see if EVs are truly 90% efficient. Nope, we just look to see which one is more yellow/white. The camera auto adjusts contrast to the hottest and coldest thing in view...
To be fair I wish the diesel had the same body paint color as the Leaf. It didn't look that warm out there but the darker paint will absorb more sunlight. This would give a better comparison to the otherwise distracting image of the body. I suppose there is also the point that when your ICE is acting as something of a cogen - heat pulled off the motor to warm the cabin - that an ICE isn't as bad. Note "isn't as bad" != "good". Among other things, that heat sucks when not in chilly weather.
Surely Robert's recent episode-long advert for the massively expensive folding electric bike would have gone down well on the telly shopping channel too
Has anyone pointed out the likely energy inefficiency of whatever means of electrical power generation was used to charge the EV battery. Of course the battery itself and electric motors on the vehicle produce less heat than the diesel, but you are only looking at the tail end of that system.
"As you can see ... the tires are super hot."
~18°C = super hot ???
Sorry, but if you use a Flir-Cam, you should know how to use it and how to interpret the data right.
'Super-bright' does not mean 'hot' if you use an IR-Cam in Auto-adjusting mode, where it automatically adjusts its color-range to the measured temperature-range of the actual frame. In this mode the 'hottest' spot in the actual frame will always be shown as super-bright, regardless if the hotspot is 200°C or if it's just -5°C (temperature of the hotspot is shown in the top right).
I was thinking the same thing. Seems over exited about colors. I agree its interesting to see the difference, but this seems a bit over exitement without much attention to detail.
I thought her butt would be a lot brighter than the camera did.
I've gotten my tyres to >45c on track, and the tread starts to peel off then...
18C is 64.4F. It's luke cool not hot at all.
8:20 - and you're actually not pointing it at the engine, but the plastic cover over it. You'll find the engine is much, much warmer than 30C!
but isn't the actual motor on the leaf much lower, and she is pointing to camera on the charger? still likely cooler, but the comparison could have been more fair
haha, yep that is true.
@@AEON. just because it got us here now doesn't mean it needs to take us into the future.
@@SD-tj5dh people like him seems to think we can just carry on like normal I have a boss that acts the same I've given up trying to point out issues with the oil industry and where mankind is heading if we carry on
@@AEON. Without sailing ships, we wouldn't be where we are now... so what?
The video looks like great excuse to play with that amazing camera XD
@@AEON. I think you should sit down, work out power efficiencies and actually research your facts instead of writing this sort of thing as you evidently don't know what you are talking about. Science and engineering is considerably harder than curating a 43 video pro-Trump video list. Your posting above is both inaccurate and profoundly racist.
Only thing we learned.... this was a rare worthless clickbate post by this channel..... and Nicholas Brown is off his meds.....
It's an ad for Flir Systems, nothing more, nothing less. Did they say in the video that the content was paid for by Flir Systems?
I normally enjoy fully charged but this whole video seemed very pointless. You should of looked at the motor in the electric motor to compare it directly to a ICE engine. I really don't get what the point was of this video except for it being a sponsored video by the camera company.
Yes I agree. Obviously the video was made to promote the product, the camera. In my opinion it was more about the camera than about the subject which was energy loss. Certainly not one of the best episodes of fully charged .
Love the channel, great respect for everyone involved with Fully Charged, but this one won’t look good on your resume’
this was awful, she has no idea whats she talking about.
Forget electric cars. I'm going to spend my money on a thermal camera now.
Eleven minutes of the blindingly obvious! Who would have thought that an exhaust pipe gets hot and that a car that doesn't have one - doesn't!
And she's so incompetent that she hasn't placed the temp meter from the FLIR on the exhaust pipe, she was just looking at its colours going wow that's like glowing hot.
Yeah, just a waste of time.
Many drivers don't know heat = $$$.
@@KenHeslip yet at no point has she let this clear. Bad presenter.
@@KenHeslip many ev drivers and this presenter are oblivious that the hot parts of their vehicles isn't in the frunk.
Anyone else watch this and think this has got to be the worst video from Fully Charged?
100%
Egern Egern maybe it’s a bad video but I wouldn’t call it pseudoscience. The average EV is something like 85% efficient charger to wheel and even more so at the motor alone which is what is being shown here. On the other hand, ICE engines generally range from 20%-30% efficient and the other 75% of energy is lost to sound and heat. So I would argue that it is a very good indication of efficiency.
Along with the "Ive become a Vegetarian" episode.
Agreed. Why on earth wasn't it on the regen channel too, not that it would have been less directionless and rubbish.
I say never let the facts ruin the left wing fantasy that is EV cars.
It would have been interesting to take a look at the electric motors, inverters, and controller units. These consume energy to do work and unless I am greatly mistaken, they will not be 100% efficient and will probably radiate heat. No doubt less than a turbo on a diesel.
Yeah, it was a very cosmetic look.
The inverter in the leaf is below the big black box under the bonnet (together with the dc to dc converter) and the motor is right below the inverter. So while she sadly didn't mention it, we can tell from the video that the unit is producing a bit of heat but not a huge amount.
Nicholas Brown wow ..... deluded
Batteries are made by slave children in Africa? Have you been vaping bio-diesel? These batteries are made by machines in factories, you simply can't 'hand-roll' a li-ion battery like a hand-rolled cigar..
Of the ten biggest lithium mines, only two are in Africa (Mali and Zimbabwe) and both are funded by Australian mining companies to create jobs so people can enjoy a higher standard of living. Five of the biggest lithium mines are all located in Australia, and the remaining three are in the US, Mexico and Canada. In all of these mines work is done by machines, not by barefoot slaves with a pick.
And the reason diesel generators are used to power electric motors on ships and in trains, is because they would need to haul an awful lot of batteries otherwise. And no, diesel engines are NOT more efficient than electric motors, don't spout Dunning-Kruger all over and do research first.
Tesla's are are like 90% efficient while ICE's can barely break 50%. Combustion is just such a wasteful reaction. Hybrids fair better but really not much better.
1:16 the "metal trim" is not colder than the rest of the car, it's simply more reflective which a thermal camera picks up as less hot.
You see the temp of whatever is reflected in it. It would be good if she had explained that.
Yes, you can't get a reading from chrome with a laser thermometer either.
For most people IR camera images are just nice pictures, because it is counter intuitive that the same color means different temperature all the time (due to automatic temperature range).
When you are trying to demonstrate temperature difference between 2 things, it is useful to disable automatic temperature range and set range for example from 0 to 200°C in case of cars. Only then you would be able to see how much less heat is produced by EV and how much engine bay produces.
For example, in this video EV seems to have hotter tires than ICE. But it is only due to automatic temperature range of camera.
Please do similar video again and let someone experienced to to IR camera shots. Such video would be epic!
Is it me or does this not tell us anything about efficiency and wasted energy? ...... Watching this was wasted energy.
It is interesting. But also remember that the black color of the ICE absorbs heat and the white EV much less.
Really hot - Really cold, 10°C difference!
al kiou it’s sooo hot..... it’s 23C, oh dear.....
Its also the same when left wingers say that global warming is happening then they realize it's a better lie if we tell the public that its not longer global warming but climate change.
Very bad effort I'm afraid. I normally enjoy FC but this episode is making more bad than good for the case!
- Did not compare electric motor to combustion motor
- combustion motor actually needs that heat for efficient combustion (that's why you have short circuit if coolant) - so it's not "doing nothing"
Etc etc
Please do make more effort when playing with toys for your sponsor/patron money.
I'd like to see a second attempt on this one - more informative and not shot in a rush...
Things like locking the thermal scale between cars would help. White equals hottest, but it isn't helpful when you switch between a 10deg and a 50deg difference.
And a lithium iron battery needs heat to work efficiently, which is why I'm glad Jonny Smith is now taking care to note what sort of battery management new cars are using
Well all heat is lost energy in an engine, any heat an engine gives off is energy that was not transformed into mechanical energy. Hence why engines are rated in thermal efficiency - how much of the heat energy is transformed into mechanical energy (or work output). I dont exactly know about electrical motors, but in general you'll still have heat losses from the battery, the transformer, and the motor itself (for example how your mobile phone heats up when you watch long videos or similar).
But yeah this video was poppycock, what would be more interesting to see is for example comparisons of wheel heat in similar models after breaking - ICE cars use disc brakes which are total loss energy for the vehicle (apart from mild hybrids), everything gets turned into waste heat, while an EV will usually transform a big chunk of that energy back into power - but you also have the vast difference in weight between a comparable ICE car and EV, which might tip the scale back towards an ICE car at more aggressive braking. And there are many other things that would be interesting to see with a FLIR camera.
it's like she has never seen an infra-red camera before... while they are remarkable toys, they can also be used to look for electrical shorts on the EV. Follow wires, look for hot connections, etc. Very handy gadget.
And more importantly for cold wall spots inside houses that give away air leaks that lead to mold infestations.
And the Police use them for finding the bad guy hiding in the bushes, the Fire brigade for finding the hot-spots in thick smoke, where visible light is nil. etc, etc, etc.
IR cameras are definitely fun to play around with. Glass, for example acts like a perfect mirror, so point it at a window and you'll see a reflection of yourself. A greenhouse turns into a rather trippy hall of mirrors (and demonstrates how greenhouses work).
Other objects are almost completely transparent, like black plastic bin liners. Ask someone to hold one up in front of themselves and you'll be able to see their face perfectly through the plastic.
1:10 Chrome is not cold, but reflective. One of the drawbacks of thermal cameras, you need to know the limits. Also at the wheel disk, reflection of heat can be seen, as heat for sure is not like that..
This^^ it's most important to ensure the surfaces have a similar sensitivity as mentioned! For IR camera work, actual surface temperatures are correlated across to other direct contact sensing methods, and often, all surfaces are given an "equal" emissivity by being painted matt black!
@@maxtorque2277 Painted and oxidized surfaces are nearly identical in emissivity to other common materials, like plastic and other organic materials. Anodized alumin(i)um is blacker than tarmac in the IR. If you are doing a quantitative, rather than comparative, analysis, having a consistent target would be helpful. But then, you don't need an imaging IR camera.
@@Markle2k Agreed, as a thermographer, and an electrician, we often attach ordinary paper sticker to shiny metal electrical connections (when off of course!!) to allow us to get a reading on anything other than the reflected radiation in the environment. It was an interesting example of this in the video, that the surface of the brake rotors were as reflective as they were compared to the oxidised outer edge.
@@kiwiskiz I surmise that the surface of brake rotors is rough compared to the wavelength? I looked up hematite, the non-hydrated version of rust, aka Fe2O3, and it has a surprisingly high emissivity of 0.85. Cast iron, which is what most brake rotors are made of, has an emissivity of 0.65. I assumed it would be down in the range of cast aluminum at 0.2-0.3. I guess, aside from its relatively high thermal conductivity, that is what makes it a good material for brake rotors.
Nickel-plated steel and chrome, on the other hand, are at 0.1, just over five times that of polished gold.
What's this, fully charged junior school edition?
I liked this video. No one claimed it quantified efficiency differences. It was a fun romp with an expensive toy. Yes, professional heat people use the same equipment for studies, but just bopping around looking at stuff is a hoot. Of course it’s blindingly obvious that a diesel car will give off more heat. Efficiency differences are due to more than heat, but wasted heat is a big one. Let’s focus on curiosity and play and stop acting like we are God’s gift to intelligent discourse.
As an owner of both a Nissan Leaf and a 2007 Focus Diesel (in black no less) I found this episode most informative! Ironically I've always considered the Leaf warmer as the climate control heats up near instantly while in the Focus you freeze to death for the first ten minutes in the winter waiting for it to warm up.
Take-away: EVs are not cat-friendly 😭
A cat mode needs to be added to the next iterations. 🐾
You expect Puuurrrrrfection?
(I'll get my coat)
@@rogerstarkey5390 😹
It's better for the cat to be cold rather than wrapped around an axel.
@@KenHeslip You are right, but It was a joke. 🐾
This is fat shaming for cars.
LOL
For a general audience, she should follow observation with interpretation. Just repeating observations is not very useful.
It's worse than that; this video is retarded. She's just stating things that should be obvious even without the camera.
Check out her knees. They are hotter (sorry) than the car tyres. Take- away = leggings waste energy.
Good point about tyre treads. IR thermometer is a good way to see if you tracking is correct.
this video wasn't as proffesional as expected, it seems you asked the first random person to use and react to a termal camera..
She is actually a scientist (Oceanographer), but she's spent a lot of time presenting science on TV and to kids so we get this rather g-whizz approach. Fully charged does aim fairly low on the 'actual science' front, so this is probably about right, but I would have liked more detail (like why does the back of both the Tesla and and the leaf have significant warm areas?). She should also have explained that you get a lot of misleading things from this game because you often see reflections (so the shiny Tesla door handles look cold because they are reflecting the cold surroundings, not because they are much colder than the door they are in.
To be fair she does mention reflections, and it's hard to be rigorously accurate when extemporising to camera (just try it sometime :-)
@@Wookey. wow, a scientist!!!
It also doesn't have to be. Did you expect something academic and if so why did you?
A simple showing of different drive-trains and it was perfectly fine.
@Writer B.L. Alley A bit of fun for sure, but did we really need 9 hours of video footage of the presenter repeating herself every 30 seconds to ram that "fun" home? Surely an extremely brief video would have surficed?
Amazing video on thermal emission by these on road vehicles. Take a bow Fully Charged 👍
Fully Charged focusses on the future of energy AND transport, and while we love electric vehicles, that doesn't only mean cars. If you like the more scientific episodes with Dr. Helen Czerski, check out her episodes on Batteries - th-cam.com/video/OlBZ51QLEfs/w-d-xo.html and on Fusion - th-cam.com/video/M1RsHQCMRTw/w-d-xo.html. More info on everything Fully Charged, including news, reviews, blogs, merchandise and tickets to our live events can be found at www.FullyCharged.Show
What subject is she a doctor in? ICE: pointing heat sensitive camera at engine. EV: Pointing camera at the same place as on the ICE, but where there´s no engine. Conclusion: EV are more efficient.
At least it wasn't into the frunk of a tesla! The demonstration wasn't at all scientific but there is an electric motor in that compartment, putting out heat.
The fact about Lithium Ion batteries needing to be at 25c is Incorrect also as new evidence suggests rapidly heating a battery to 60c can result in a massively reduced charge time thus being able to do more miles in a set time.
Don't forget the absence of that nasty, hot tailpipe!
_*Closing shot of an EV driving past a powerstation_
Great to see ' the doc' Euan giving us great facts, his channel is brilliant too !
Well it isn't, because at 8.12 where he makes this statement about source-to-wheel efficiency, there is no comparison to the diesel engine. At least those 'facts' detracted from her dreadful presenting voice.
@@sjcsystems White car reflects the light,black car absorbs it,you don't have to be a scientiest to know that,even on a relatively overcast sky.They've ,,missed,, this point
Great camera, should have had a trained professional demonstrate it. This was just painful.
I’m amazed at how many people dislike this video, watch the whole thing and then complain about it in the comments. Do you people not have better things to do?
I quite enjoyed it, physicists are excited about about different wavelengths of light, it’s a bit weird but it’s quite nice to see the difference between the vehicles.
What I thought was most interesting was the difference in tire temperature. So much for EV’s having increased tire wear - as she said follow the energy
Very nice video. Very enjoyable to watch, and I was impressed at how black the sky is in some shots. Thanks. Does the IR sensor need to be cooled before use?
Yes, that is part of the start up process for such cameras. All handled internally.
That camera that "everyone should have" (9:42) only costs $42,000 USD.
It would be great to get a closer look, maybe with visiting a shop garage and talking with a mechanic who knows all about the ICE car (and also talk to an Electric Car mechanic) so then we can really see exactly where the hot points are.
"The shiny metal is really cool".
No. It isn't. You need to set the correct emissivity correction factor for the material you are measuring.
Bit unfair when the diesel is a heat engine, and therefore is actually more efficient the hotter it runs!
Drunken Hobo heat is still wasted energy (other than the small amount we use for heating in the winter) we just want kinetic and electrical, the whole point is ice is not efficient for what we are trying to do
It may be fractionally more effective when it is hotter, but it is still in incredibly inefficient system. 30% efficiency is, I believe, better expressed by saying 70% of every dollar/pound/euro you pay for does not move the vehicle and is wastes as heat and toxic gas
ICE cars use more energy to cool down the heat from the engine. The truth is that the best ICE cars only get about 30% efficiency. So calling an ICE car efficient is not correct at all. ICE cars are inherently inefficient.
the emisstivity needs to be set correctly when using the Flir infrared camera to measure the temperature of different surfaces. the battery will give of heat which can be seen reflected off the road.
"The shiny metal" is not cool it's the same temp as all the exterior just the infrared camera has a problem discerning temp of a reflective object. The same with dark spots on the tires it's just water, not some way of telling which part of tire touched the road.
So the awnser to the amount of energy wasted is..........lots i suppose cause. that was just a mess around with a camera, didn't really awnser the title of the video.
Am pro EV, efficiency and making the world better - this was a fun video but it should be redone to demonstrate that the overall conclusions are correct while taking away the bias.
1) when the cars drive up - you can already see that the temperature is different (based on car colour) - cars should be the same colour.....
2) Plastic hood covering engine of ICE car should be removed - this will show a clearer picture of heat
3) you also need to focus camera on electric motor - it will still be hot but not quiet as hot...
4) cars need to have the same year of manufacture - both should be relatively new
5) the crosshairs of the camera- this is the point that is reflected in the temperature readout - the video was all over the place and did not focus on hot spots
6) the cars need to be running for at least 30 min at at least 50miles per hour (using brakes and the like) - this will also show heat lost in braking vs regen braking
You are right in that the level of detail should be measured. But! This a vid that the average person could see without any techno jargon. It worked. Without the detail the difference was obvious.
Thanks John - fully agree with you, the video was good and it certainly will start a good conversation. But we can all do better - Top Gear were called out for a biased programming - I think we should not fall down the same path.
1:15
"The shiny metal bits are quite cool"
They might be but what the camera shows is the reflection of the sky which is very cool
(Infrared gets reflected just like visible light)
Was this not really obvious even without the infrared camera?
Hey Doc you need to take that IR camera to the nearest coal power plant because that's where most of the electricity comes from. They are less than 50% efficient, so you'll get plenty of pretty colors.
6 minutes into the film and I learned nothing but that the camera is really cool.
When ev cars are more common and people crash and wrap them around poles and stuff the lithium battery will cause fires. Your thermal camera will pick up the heat than.
Ah yes, unlike in ICE vehicles which famously never catch fire! /s
I wonder how hot a power station gets when generating electricity?
Interesting at 6.30 your shins are shining white. I've always needed a scientist to tell me that a radiator radiates heat.
Hold on....you pointed the camera at the diesel engine and claimed it was old tech, and pointed it at the same space on the Leaf....which doesn't have an engine. How about pointing it at the electric motors underneath where the work is being done, work consuming energy and inevitably wasting some as heat? I was expecting something a bit more scientific.
Shes a doctor, but i suspect the wrong kind.
@@michac3796 She has her Bachelors and Masters in Physics and her Doctorate in explosives physics, concentrating on using high speed photography to capture the invisible world that our pokey, slow brains miss. Her postdoctoral work was in bubble physics and heat flow in oceanography. Which means she's still curious about how much is left to learn, while you exhibit the complacency of ignorance residing on the left side of the Dunning-Kruger curve.
@@Markle2k While i trust you're not misleading me, i still wonder why she obviously simplified her observations to the point of falsehood.
But thank you for contributing to the discussion.
@@michac3796 Why would I try to mislead you?Her details are readily searchable online. She's a research Fellow at UCL. You can find her Cambridge doctoral thesis in their catalog and look up her name on Google Scholar to see her other research papers.
You don't need a thermal camera to answer this. An ICE use in cars have around 30% efficiency, with newer designs pushing 40%. The transmission has about 80% efficiency, higher for CVT and manual transmissions. So that's 25 to 30% efficiency overall for an ICEV. In winter conditions that is bumped up by the use of waste heat for cabin heating. In round numbers, the heating load is about 5000 watts, or about 6 HP. So in a small car, with a 100 hp engine, that's a 6% efficiency boost (higher, actually, because the engine rarely operates at max power). So let's round that to potential ICEV efficiency of 30 to 40% best case in winter driving conditions. Add a hybrid system to the ICEV and, of course, that efficiency goes up. Now, an EV has battery charging and discharging efficiency around 90% for good implementations, high at higher charge voltages, and the electric motor is also in around 90% efficiency. So that's 3*90% = 72% efficiency for the EV. Add a heating load and that might be reduced to below 70% efficiency. So an EV is about 2 to 3 times more efficiency than and ICEV. The worse case scenario (or best case, depending on your perspective) of and high efficiency ICEV hybrid design operating in severe cold compared to an EV they begin to approach each other in efficiency, but the EV will continue to be more efficient. There is a limit were a very high efficiency ICEV (possibly hybrid) operating in extreme cold will match an EV in efficiency.
I'd like you to manually dub in the word bonnet everytime she says hood.
Why?
It’s an America term and she sounds very British to me. Is she going to start talking about the trunk full of candy that spilt on the sidewalk next?
We got two 'hood's and two 'bonnet's so she may be carefully catering for a worldwide audience :-)
Why the rants about the word hood and bonnet? The vast majority of English speakers also understand American even if we can't speak it. Fully Charged is a global channel, so must also cater to colonial and Antipodean viewers.
Are they going to start spelling words the wrong way too? I don’t see any American vlogs making half of their vocabulary in proper English.
sorry ,but hardly something we didn't know is it.
The glow is “emissivity”. Materials emit different thermal radiation. The “white” is saturation. You can only measure the thermal conduction and convection. Or you could just touch things.
Most organic materials have near-blackbody emissivity in the infrared. Paint, rubber, plastic, etc. In fact, most common materials have IR emissivities in the 0.9 range. It's bare metals, especially polished, shiny bits, that have extremely low emissivities. Except for anodized aluminum (and other metal oxides), which has a higher emissivity than asphalt.
The glow is NOT emissivity. The glow is electromagnetic radiation in the infrared portion of the spectrum. Emissivity is a measure of the amount of radiation given off for a given temperature. The camera is of course measuring that thermal radiation.
BTW, a quick look at the net energy of each car tells you all you need to know! Ie the Leaf and Focus are, broadly, similar cars in terms of their "Roadload" is the energy required to move them along, but there fuel consumption tells you the true story:
Leaf at 4 miles per kWh (15.5 kWh/100km)
Focus at 50 mpg is 1.2 miles per kWh (53.6 kWh/100km)
Basically, for the same energy, the Leaf can travel pretty much 4 times as far as the Focus!
(and if we are talking short journeys where the focus must warm up (and hence we must put energy into the actual structure of the engine and powertrain that never gets to the wheels to do that) and where it will do around 25 mpg, the leaf is 8x better......)
Is a short journey really twice as bad? (How short is short for that value to be accurate?). We have of course known for a long time that EVs are about 4 times as efficient in local energy->movement conversion - it's their killer advantage.
@@Wookey. Take a typical engine, with a mass of around 200 kG, including 15 litres of coolant and 5 litres of water. Just warming that from 10 degC to 70 degC , takes approximately 4.2 kWh, enough on it's own to move the EV 1 mile away! And of course, there is the gearbox as well (heavy & lossy), and the fact that when cold, and ICE is even less efficient because it must burn extra fuel to get it's exhaust after-treatment to operating temperature as quickly as possible, and when cold, all the many moving and sliding surfaces are experiencing high frictional losses
AN EV powertrain by comparison is MORE efficient when it is cold (because restive and switching losses are smaller !!) NOTE, EV's range falls when cold, not because they get less efficient, but because the available battery energy capacity falls, and thinks like hotel loads (heating etc) add to higher aero and rolling losses. This means you can't drive as far, but in terms of the actual efficiency of the car, EVs broadly are as efficient across all temperatures!
Might be worth taking that thermal camera to the power plant that produces the electricity for the car, and see how efficient that is too.
Not your finest work, fully charged. Blindly pointing an infra red camera at an EV doesn't exactly feel scientific. Pointing it at the battery packs, which are kept cool to stop the batteries from exploding, and then randomly poke around under the bonnet rather than actually getting the temperature of the motors (which would have been hot)? Why did you bother?
Fullycharged it’s embarrassing that you’ve let this silly, obvious and non-informative ad under your badge
Not really useful as the motors where not filmed and the batteries hardly viewed. Was more about play than science.
Having said that, I don't think that Dr Helen Czerski has access to the equipment that would have allowed recording of the electric motors, so was limited in what could be filmed.
At the end of the show, there was footage of e-bikes that showed the heat the electric motors generate. Might be worth borrowing that camera again when there is the equipment available to see the electric motors and the temperatures of the charging batteries (especially the water cooled ones.)
9:50 A shot with the sky being -18°C. There are materials that only radiate where the atmosphere has a frequency gap. This way they can radiate through the atmosphere directly to space.
If you put them into direct sunlight , they actually cool down.
I'm not saying that it is the explanation, but -18 C (0 F) is about right for the skin temperature of the Earth as seen from space. That's the layer of the atmosphere where upwelling and downwelling radiation match each other.
Seems simplistic to talk about black versus white. How about talking about the actual or relative temperature represented by the IR camera colors: white, yellow, orange?
She has no clue of course
@@octap79 White is 250 ....yellow is 120...and orange is negative 40 degrees....
@@actualfactual8737 The colours aren't tied to specific temperatures. The scale on the right of the screen shows the min and max in the field of view.
@@octap79 Actually she has rather more than a clue. Touch of misogyny perhaps?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Czerski?wprov=sfla1
@@benjaminford9932 Sure whenever there is a negative comment about a woman someone must be a misogynist. As if when we need to comment about someone and it happens to be a female we should only make sure it's positive. Fucked up logic. She clearly has NO CLUE. She hasn't figured out that the center point is the reference point to take a reading and also that this thing has a programmable scale that you need to take into consideration before you make claim that something is "super hot" if it appears "white" in the display. According do your logic should I guess that you are a gay-snowflake or just an idiot? The latter is what matters
The ICE car is painted black, which absorbs heat. White reflects heat. If you look at the rear of the leaf, the black painted portion of the truck lid is hotter than the white. This test should have been done with two cars of the same color. Physics is cool!
Sorry, this was essentially an advert for a camera. The diesel "lava" engine was the same colour as your knees. We learned nothing we didn't know. Combustion creates heat,. Cooling systems get hot. Brakes get really hot. EVs are efficient.
Great video, but I wish you had pointed the camera at the bottom of the Leaf stack of gear under the hood where the electric motor is. Also, it would have been nice to show the difference in the temperature of the brakes after a stop test. My guess is that the regenerative braking system would be cooler.
Um, okay, ice's produce more heat than an electric motor, and battery. Who don't know DAT!. We have known that internal combustion engines are only 40% efficient for the past 100+ years, but the power to weight ratio makes them quite useful. Now, put both cars in a winter location at -5 Celsius (23F), for 5 hours,before starting; then drive them and see which produces the most heat quickest, and, how far will they both go,doing 55 mph(88 kph) before needing to refuel. Then do the same test in the summer location at 35 celsius (95F) for 5 hours, before starting; which can maintain a cool interior of 20 celsius (68F) and how far will they go doing 55 mph (88kph) before refueling. Now, I think electric cars are the future, but the transition can not be fast, due to the economics, of shutting down fossil fuel system, on a global scale.
And if you point the little X in the middle at a thing the number at the top left will tell you the temperature of the thing.
OK, I admit. I wanted to grab the camera and actually see some numbers, especially along the Tesla battery.
New hardware always has a steep learning curve. I wanted to see the camera shoot under the car while it was moving, but I think the people that lent the camera would have had kittens.
It's a bit of fun, really. Relevant bit starts @ 7:55 where it suggests what a heat pump ICEs really are. Don't draw serious conclusions from this. Just watch the pretty pictures 😁😎
Would be a good idea if the OEMs would use thermal analysis to further optimize the still high consuming devices in an EV.
That was an interesting video, for about 2 minutes. I honestly thought they were going to show something else.
White car reflects the light,black one absorbs it.Even on an overcast weather,these laws don't twist.Something you forgot to mention?
If we call any total loss above 10% "significant" then start looking for power regulation losses in an EV, DC-AC conversion losses (and potentially back to some DC again), electric motor efficiency and next the transmission losses. These all were invisible in the video. The FLIR images from the Tesla showed a very hot (relative to the environment) edge on the boot and this is above its regulation-conversion and electric motor. Transmission losses will be worse in the ICE car that also suffers from the non-friction related power-vector decomposition losses in a transmission chain more so than the EV (I guess).
In the classic atomic model, we can call the flow of electrons - electricity - another form of friction and it causes heat. Here we get to the production and transportation of energy. For each kWh we put on the road, what is the total - not just the kWh to burn rubber, but also the kWh to get these kWh there. Just transporting electricity through a power line has its losses, even if we do not include the energy invested in setting up the cable infrastructure. In the end, what about the batteries? Are these an environmental disaster waiting to happen? Mankind had no interest to ask and answer such questions when it grew to a billion or so ICE. We are not going to do that again, are we?
Yes, let's go back to the Interbellum when more EV drove around, at least in certain areas, than ICE vehicles - >and< answer these questions.
And, let's look at efficiency more in this way: my nice 4-door sedan does 3.5 litre diesel per 100 km between 90 and 120 km/h (80.7 mi/UK gallon or 67.2 mi/US gallon at speeds between 62 mph -10%..+20%) with regular tires. My previous winter tires did about the same. Then new winter tires were mounted: the 3.5 went to 5 litre: an increase of 42.9%. (Flat country, no heavy wind, drag from other cars not too far away, on cruise control.) EV get tired from these bad rubber effects too.
Now go and look at a power station. The temperature out of cooling towers is only a few degrees above ambient but the heat volume is huge. At least 30% of the gas burnt goes straight out the cooling system. If the plant is running at part load the losses get even worse.
The quick shot of getting a ice cream was a nice touch, followed by awesome shot of a certain Green enthusiast on a electric scooter. :P
FLIR are great machines, I use one to check circuits and what components are overheating.
There are things to remember using these, they are relative so white could be just 20c or a 100c depending on the environment around it, the scale changes. Also heat can be reflected or insulated by a surface, I once tried to get the heat of a tool behind a poly-carbonate hood but the hood was insulating so I couldn't get a good reading.
It does show where ICE cars lose their energy, all that heat could be used for driving the wheels. In an EV lots more energy is used to move rather than being dissipated as heat.
Could have just recruited anyone to operate this camera and come to the same conclusions
Do you have references to the Euan McTurk’s facts displayed during the vid? I would like to read more about that.
8:45 in a diesel engine, temperature is actually doing something to help the car run... It helps ignite the fuel. Yes there is a waste of energy, that is true though.
Nice basic illustration of efficiency. Some viewers got lost in details and missed the point. Helen, keep doing what you do. 🇨🇦
Why do people get so angry over absolutely nothing? Why get so upset over a ten minute video? And if it did upset you, why did you watch the whole thing?
People are properly crazy.
It's very rare I thumb down one of your videos, but this was basically just one big long thermal camera advert and well below par your usual quality of video - sorry.
Same here I'm afraid.
Nice to see my supersized red creation 25 seconds in the background at the start not to mention the other two... I hope FC will release some more of the interview footage of Johnny with the hacky racers - was so funny to record... and would certainly like to come back next year
I"m a huge fan of Helen but damn it why couldn't she actually hold the camera over some of those hot parts to see their real temperatures. She was more intrigued by the colours than the stats (did she consume something special before the event hahaha!). The wheels / tires / brake pads were roasting hot and to this day I don't know what temperature even though that camera could tell us. It's absolutely obvious they'd be warmer than the rest, the main calliper brakes are always fitted to the front of a car where braking is most efficient and brakes use friction, the front tires for that reason use their friction with the surface to slow down and in turn generate heat (and they also absorb heat from the hot stuff all around them)...
But c’mon...I’m guessing they had so much info at the event, that they were trying to decide what to leave-out, and THIS gets 10 minute of coverage?? I feel they are underestimating the intelligence of their audience here.
5:40 Anyone ever tell you you look like Bill Bailey when in infared?
Lol!
@@AEON. No.
@@AEON. looooneeey!
How does one 'IR baldness' comment lead to this screed of madness? Interesting idea that a video about heat in vehicles could be described as 'pushing hatred' (in capitals, no less. You sir, need help, beautifully illustrating here what's wrong with the bottom half of the internet.
lol
@@AEON. "change is inevitable; to struggle is an option" We will let you struggle on this one.
Both cars should be modern, one shouldn't be more than 10 years older than the other.
It won't make any difference, IC engines throw away more than half the energy in the fuel as heat, regardless of how old they are.
A modern diesel will probably be hotter. The aim of ICE engines is to heat up as quickly as possible and stay hot
@@leenevin8451 - The bottom line is, you can't avoid throwing away more than half the energy as heat. End of story.
@@rogerfroud300 Everything in motion produces heat.
Really won't make even the tiniest difference... An ICE car made yesterday hasn't dropped it's combustion temperatures compared to 10 years ago... If you COMBUST something you bring it to HOT combustible temperatures so by definition an ICE car will be an order of magnitude hotter than a 85 to 95% efficient EV.
You can now buy a small attachment with IR lens to your handphones and instantly it becomes an infrared camera.
I'm guessing you got sponsored by Flir for this? I would love to have one of those cameras, but then I'd have to sell my car and I ain't doin that.
I guess it is more of a case of "Do you want to borrow this cool camera" rather than money changing hands. I'm very much in favour of companies lending their best products for use on TH-cam channels as it lets us see just how well, or otherwise, they perform.
Would have been interesting to see a 1st gen Leaf against the current one to show the lack of battery temp management.
An infra-red camera is suggested to be one of the possible features of the next generation of mobile (cell) phones. I keep looking for this as all new models seem to be the same as current phones.
But you didn’t show the Nissan motor heat!!!
I don't usually read the comments, but I suspect there is some conscious or unconscious sexism going on here. While this may not be my favourite episode, this woman is a highly intelligent, educated person who I expect is qualified far beyond many of the commenters, and this level of criticism is neither deserved or warranted.
UK average power output is about 30GW of electrical power. So refineries use about 3% of ALL UK electricity
Could have been interesting to have the cars go 0-100 km/h a few times and have the EV use regen for breaking and the ICE car to use breaks. Then film the breaks and document that the EV is much cooler there as well.
Nice video and entertaining presented. I also like the little factlets - just let them stay on a tiny bit longer for older guys like me. ;)
are those true temperature readings, or do you have to take some other factor into account?
This was the most scientific thing ever. I figured we were going to use physics and measure the energy in a gallon of gas, and then the kinetic energy it produced in moving a mass (ignoring aerodynamics), then do the same for electric and compare to see if EVs are truly 90% efficient. Nope, we just look to see which one is more yellow/white. The camera auto adjusts contrast to the hottest and coldest thing in view...
I love you guys, but pitting a 2018 leaf with a 2007 diesel focus - maybe not such a great comparison for efficiency... Did enjoy Dr McTurk's notes!
To be fair I wish the diesel had the same body paint color as the Leaf. It didn't look that warm out there but the darker paint will absorb more sunlight. This would give a better comparison to the otherwise distracting image of the body.
I suppose there is also the point that when your ICE is acting as something of a cogen - heat pulled off the motor to warm the cabin - that an ICE isn't as bad.
Note "isn't as bad" != "good". Among other things, that heat sucks when not in chilly weather.
The electric vehicle is also white which reflects heat. I would have thought sourcing a white car wouldn’t have been to difficult 🤦♂️
This is cool. For 30 secs.
this is THE longest AD i was ever tricked to watch....this channel sometimes "amazes" me....
Surely Robert's recent episode-long advert for the massively expensive folding electric bike would have gone down well on the telly shopping channel too
Has anyone pointed out the likely energy inefficiency of whatever means of electrical power generation was used to charge the EV battery. Of course the battery itself and electric motors on the vehicle produce less heat than the diesel, but you are only looking at the tail end of that system.
Oh yeah... "everyone should have one of these"... at £36k each!