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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ม.ค. 2020
- I just had my first and hopefully last massive ice climbing fall at an ice climbing trip to Hemsedal in Norway. And that was a scary experience!
In this short ice climbing video I will show you what happened and talk you through the ice climbing fall, and in the end also talk a bit about how I see such an ice climbing fall could have been avoided in the first place.
And I will also explain why falling on ice is dangerous and in any means should be avoided!
We were ice climbing a single pitch WI5 at Golsjuvet in Hemsedal where we had to top out above a small overhang and bridge a hanging pillar. The finishing move on the ice climbing route was to basically to pull yourself over an overhang after the ice axes had been buried deep in the snow and frozen turf.
If you are asking yourself why there are a couple of Petzl Nomics sitting at the top of the route, then my climbing partner had just taken a similar ice climbing whipper, so I promised to retrieve his ice axes. But after my fall my ice axes were stuck too! Fortunately for us we could walk out of the gorge at Golsjuvet and retrieve our ice axes by abseiling down the route from the top.
I gained a few learnings from my ice climbing fall and there are a series of things I could have done differently to prevent myself from falling. First of all, if I couldn’t find a decent rest, then I should just have rested in the last ice screw, or clipped one of my ice axes and then rested where I were. Secondly, I was so close to topping out at the tree that I could probably just have hooked the tree with one of my ice axes or grabbed it with my hands. I must admit though that it seemed a bit sketchy to do in the situation. And pulling in trees is something I generally try to avoid because their roots could be rotten, and not hold my pull! Because then you can easily make an ice climbing fall.
I was happy that I did not climb with leashes that day as my ice axes would have ricochet against me, when the strings pulled tight by the fall. And that could inflict serious injury!
And falling on ice is something you should by any means try to avoid! Even though ice climbing falls happen, fortunately they happen rarely - but the stakes are much higher! You have sharp pointy crampons on, ice axes in your hands and the ice might not hold if it not solid enough - and you might even break off ice that could hit you or your belayer. And most ice climbing happens in remote places, so you might have to be rescued out.
I guess I got a bit too eager finishing the route, and what I learned is that I should take resting very seriously when climbing steep ice. So for those reasons I could have a avoided this ice climbing whipper.
So, have you been in a similar situation taking a fall of ice - and what did you learn you your ice climbing whipper? Leave a comment below.
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Remember also to check out the video that I did from the day, where we actually climbed at Golsjuvet, where my unfortunate ice climbing fall took place - th-cam.com/video/6nKdxwWRuls/w-d-xo.html. Golsjuvet is a really nice small ice climbing crag in Hemsedal!
I'm glad to see you redid this video and seem to have learned from your fall. Have a safe winter!
Thank you, Alden Pellett 😄 you too!
I'm glad you reposted this with a different narration. We can all learn from these things. When I saw you land those turf shots I thought you'd be fine! That looked like a tough climb. Glad you're ok!
Thank you, Chase the Summit 😄 Luckily the fall was quite clean.
Yeah, I thought that too. The turf was pretty solid, but I could not pull myself up, so I could top out 😕
Good rework of the previous video!
Toping out is often the hardest move, and even more having the pump build up.
Placing a screw then it's very hard and it feels easier to just finish the route. The best I find is to clip the personal anchor to the ice axe to take a break
Jon Murua, you are absolutely right! I could not place a screw where I was hanging when trying to top out, but I could probably have clipped the axe instead.
And thank you for the feedback 😄
When there's a decent screw in front of us or a good axe placement, risking a fall rather than resting on it is simply a matter of ego overcoming common sense. We've all been there, whether we've "paid the price" for our indiscretions or not. The VERY possible consequences of falling on an ice lead need to be heeded!
You are absolutely right! I learned that that day, and luckily I could walk away
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, your lessons learned, and the recommendations of the community! Yes, absolutely, as from many clinics with Don Mellor (I'm a slow learner), stop and think, stop and think, check your fuel gages (energy and pump levels), rest and refuel. Another wise-guide said the goal is to keep your heart rate low. Your video definitely makes me stop and think about some needless risks I take when leading (currently WI4, single-pitch). My belayer (wife) periodically yells up "TIME FOR A SCREW!" which makes me chuckle and then relax and remember to (as one commenter said) not let ego overtake common sense, and focus on climbing safely (I like the suggestion of one screw per body length) instead of just focusing on the destination (topping out). I'm particularly bad about putting in that last screw before topping out - I'm so close (1-2 body lengths) and just get caught up in going for it. The way your tool fractures the ice, it looks like the ice was pretty hard/brittle that day, and with every swing on the bulge, I was expecting the dry-looking hanging pillar to pop and drop, like in the EpicTV video of John Freeman riding a column to the ground. Always a good day when you can walk out! Thanks again! (PS - Why ARE there another set of ice tools at the top of the climb?)
So glad you are ok Cragcloud, stay safe, don't over pump.👍 love your videos!
Thanks so much :)
Wow. Thanks for the absolutely sound counsel.. SO glad you got away good. Typical topout crux and I agree, the tree was candidate for sure although I could see being too pumped to hold on to it! Good work getting a screw below that topout! This is also one of reasons Mark Twight recommended using a "chick sling" (now called a PAS) 20 years ago - and it supports using tools with full strength holes in the pommel. A Fifi hook on the belay loop works for the tool rest also. Can I ask, what length screw stopped you? Good job again man.
Good redo. And it's even better you had the humility to redo the video. I enjoy (and watch) all your videos. It was frustrating to see all the hate mail you got from the first video. Critiques, recommended options, etc. can always be delivered without the hate. I hope our climbing community can be better. Climb on!
Hi John. Thank you very much for the feedback. Really appreciated 😄
I was frustrated too - but that was also one of the reasons why I pulled down the first video, because I conveyed a wrong message. I guess I was a bit too quick this time and rushed a video that really wasn’t thought through. So, I guess that is another learning, haha! It is better to wait a day or two, and then make sure you send the right message 😄
So I thought it was the right thing to redo it 😄
I have been leading on ice for about a few years now. I threw away the leashes the first winter. It was just to scary to lead with them on.
Must be a nightmare to do a big fall with the axes leashed to your wrists.
And with no leash Its much easier to using the screws and handling the rope.
I totally agree!" I have also stopped using leashes years ago. I must admit, if I am climbing a long multipitch I still tend to bring them just for security if I do drop one...abseiling 8 pitches to retrieve the tools is also a pain :p
@@Cragcloud Its the same with solo climbing. I dont solo climb anymore. Its honestly just stupid.
But I have seen clips here on TH-cam on people soloing on ice who has their axes totally unleashed.
And that is f-----g dangerous. If they drop one they are basicly dead meat.
They should at least have their axes leashed to their harness.
Good video, guy. You bring up a lot of good points to consider. But, nobody really considers these concepts while they’ve climbing because we’re too focused on topping out. My big takeaway from your video is be ready physically for the challenge! Well,thanks for the video, be safe!!!
Thank you very much, Johnnyhumbkr. Yeah, you are absolutely right, I also think that people often tend to forget about these things during climbing, but I hope people will think about them before they climb 😄 And I agree too, an ice climber needs to stay fit for climbing safely 😄
Many years ago I took a leader fall topping out on Louise Falls. There was a quite a few parties below and I was trying not to drop ice. I didn't sink home my ice axes and both pics popped. I did a graceful back flip and stopped just before hitting the ice at the bottom of the piller. I hammer in Snarg held the fall. I don't worry about falling ice anymore, it's their responsibility to not climb under somebody else.
I agree. Some parties are not really paying much attention to what is going on above them. I have climbed several alpine/rock multi-pitches, where people just start climbing below - event hough we haven't finished the pitch yet :/
I am happy to hear that you could also walk away from the fall on ice. It is gnarly :/
I have climbed Louise Falls and that would be incredibly scary 😨
I had missed this video. Last saturday I downclimbed one meter and took a rest on WI5 (Arolla), I felt a bit bad about it but not as bad as if I would have fall...
Yeah. It was a pretty gnarly experience. Should also just have rested in the rope. There is no shame in that :)
So close to finish that climb… So basically rule is don’t give everything to reach the top. Rest, recover, Have something in a bag to climb over that edge. Thanks for video.
Thanks for the confirmation 👍🗻
You are welcome, Andy 😄
I was climbing last weekend, belayed from the bottom. I tried to be to aggressive in ascending when I was tired, blew out from the ice and had to by lowered down. Don’t F around with ice. It doesn’t play
Agree! I was lucky that day.
Thsnks for your channel🏔
Thanks for sharing.
You are very welcome, Isaac :)
This is actually so scary!!!
Indeed, it was! I was very lucky that day
I'm writing a screenplay about someone who falls through the crack in a glacier in Folgelfonna. I'm not a climber so do you think it's possible for the icescrew to come loose or is there a more realistic type of fall?
Ice screws could definitely come loose - but most likely in the sense that the chunk of ice the ice screw is placed in breaks off. If you do not "read" the ice the right way (and ignore cracks, soft ice, brittle ice etc.) then ice screw placements could potentially not hold. There has also been some severe (an fatal) falls with people placing ice screws in hanging pillars (and even pillars that are not thick enough), so when the climber falls and tension is put on the ice screw placement the hanging pillar breaks off. There was a fatal accident in Rjukan in Norway 4-5 years ago, where an Italian climber died as the hanging pillar broke in half while he was climbing it.
I had my first fall 2 weeks ago in a traverse, it was a massavie fall and as they ice was thin I used the shorter screw I had. I felt very confident on the ice and becouse it was a traverse my placements were way to far from each other. I was almost 10m away from the last ice scrow. Luckly nothing happened and I felt with both ice axe in my hands. It could have been different. I should defiantly place more scrows even if I feel confident especially that traverse is not something I do a lot. Let's hope it is the last fall 😀
That sounds like a really serious fall! Are you okay?
It is a good learning. I try as a rule of thumb to place a screw per my height. So, when my feet are at screw level, then it is time to place another screw - that helps me. But, it is just a rule of thumb 😄
Traverses are super scary by nature!
@@Cragcloud I was lucky it was on traverse so almost no impact... Nothing happen. Never thought about hiw to decide on a distance. I will adopt your rule 👍 heading to Norway in 2 weeks!
@@tomerzussman7735 Good to hear :) Well, sometimes I also run out longer distances between the screws, but I generally think about this :)
Nice you are going to Norway! Where are you heading?
@@Cragcloud I'm going to Rjukan, saw your great videos and hope to climb many routes.
tomer zussman Nice! Just be aware that Rjukan hasn’t really been in great conditions this year. Actually, I think it is only Krokan and Gausta that are really good. A lot of people are heading more north - e.g. to Hemsedal 😄
I am glad you are alright. Thank you for your insight. should we not use tethers while leading?
Thank you, Richard 😄 I am okay and I was lucky nothing happened.
People have different opinions about tethers/leashes, and I am one of those guys who would rather climb without.
I think it is hard not tangling up the tethers/leashes in the rope while seconding if you switch hands a lot. On lead it is less of a problem, but they can limit your range of movements.
I have also been climbing quite some years now and I generally feel comfortable with the ice axe placements I do. If you are new to ice climbing, the tethers/leashes are a good investment as they prevent you from loosing you ice axes - especially on multipitches. On single pitches I never use them as I can just be lowered down again.
On very long, low angle mountain routes I still climb with tethers/leashes.
And if you should fall then tethers/leashes are very dangerous as they will come back at you like two missiles once the strings goes tight by they fall. Even if you just rest in the rope and forget about your axes, then the strings still can go right.
However, when you are climbing and there are people below, then tethers/leashes have their advantage as you do not hit the people below if you drop your ice axes.
I guess there are pros and cons.
why was there a pair of nomics up there ? did someone else already fall?
Yes. Another climber fell just before me on the exact same place :/
Yes, always have energy left to place an ice screw and rest.
Definitely! I learned that that day ;)
Why was there a set of in situ axes at the top?
Love the vids and kudos for redoing the video and being a good resource for climbing and alpinism related info and vids.
What ice crag is this? Planning a trip to Hemsedal/Gol in the next couple weeks.
Thank you for the very kind words, Sturla! I really appreciate it :)
The ice crag is Golsjuvet. it is a really great small ice crag with about 30 routes - som mixed some pure ice climbing. Just be remindful that the river might not be frozen solid, and crossing it can be dangerous. There is a bridge about 150 meters to the north of the ice crag that you can cross and then abseil down from a few chains that are situated directly above the ice crag.
I would also add you were swinging your tools too close to each other at the top cause you were pumped. That dinner plate could've taken both your tools out! The reality is all of us who push ourselves on ice will fall eventually. Even though you could argue that you made lots of mistakes I think you did all the right things not to get hurt during the fall. Happy climbs!!
Great video, you skipped the risk of a crampon catching and the rest of your body keeps falling shattering your ankle. (happened to a friend) Everyone always talks about the risk of dying but I think all the other risks i.e. stabbing yourself are more likely and can be really bad.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Thank you :)
You are absolutely right! Crampons striking and severely injure your legs (especially your calves) is a very big risk :/
Good work on re-evaluating your last video. I noticed that you got a lot of hate for the previous video and i think that was rightly so. Your channel is targeted towards more beginner climbers so it's important to reinforce the risks associated with ice climbing. Stay safe
Hi James. Thank you for your feedback 😄 Yeah, I was a bit too quick on the first cut, and you are definitely right that it should be emphasised how dangerous falling on ice can be compared with e.g. sport climbing - not that that cannot be dangerous too, but the stakes are much higher on ice. I’ve tried to give a few examples in the video, but obviously there are a lot more.
Thank you and stay safe too 😄
Honest question. I have never ice climbed, but from my sport climbing experience, being clipped 1m below should not have made you fall that much distance if the belayer was paying attention. Is it intentional that the belayer had this much slack in the rope?
Hi Sergi 😄 Good question.
One reason is that it is really hard to stand directly below the climber as most ice climbs slabs at the bottom - this one included. Therefore it is hard taking all slack in.
Besides that we were climbing on half ropes and they are a bit more elastic than single ropes, so the climber falls farther.
Thirdly I was at the top, maybe 25 meters up, so there were quite some rope out, which also means the fall will be longer.
And finally, I am a heavy dude weighing 85 kgs as I am 193 cm tall, which also means that I take longer falls.
My climbing partner is a really experienced ice climber and alpinist, and he did everything right.
It looks like more than 1 meter. Plus, The sling on the screw is 60cm? Then 1 or maybe 1.5m above the screw is what it looks like to me.
So anywhere from 1.6 to 2.1m of rope above the carabiner
I am sure the belayer was not keeping him tight, after all that would pull him off. Sure, in an ideal world, on a smooth wall with all the pro in a straight line, the belayer might have very little slack, but in my experience, on ice or trad, with the shapes of the terrain, it is nearly impossible to do so.
For me the distance of the fall wasn't surprising. In my opinion half ropes, double rope clipping and ice climbing require the leader to calculate longer distances than single rope sports rock. Actually to me it looks pretty much like my only ice fall.
That video gave me a funny feeling in the stomach. I knew beforehand that falling while ice climbing was effin dangerous but seeing it here, that puts it in whole new perspective :x
Otherwise, good video as usual :)
Thank you for the feedback, Sithia :) Indeed, I was pretty lucky. The route we were ice climbing ended at a overhang, so I basically just fell into the air and could do a pretty controlled landing. However, not all are that lucky :/
@@Cragcloud Now you just have to go again and finish that route ;)
Haha, indeed 😄
Reading the comments, there always seems to have to be those people (Rossi) that can’t seem to resist negativity towards others! It just exposes their own insecurities! Otherwise, you would just keep your comments to yourself!
Thank you for the support, Tami! Really appreciated 😄
I guess, the internet can sometimes be a pretty awful place and it‘s easy to hide behind a screen. A good self-check whether you are crossing the line is to ask yourself, “Would I say the same thing to the person If he or she was standing next to me?” - usually, you wouldn’t 😉
@@Cragcloud happy to do so!
Your videos are awesome 😊
Phew, lucky you.
Thanks! Yeah, I was very lucky walking away without any injuries that day.
Its because you used the grivel machines not the nomics that were right there😂
Hahaha!! Yeah, I guess you are right! 😅 Next time I will grab the Nomics! 😅😜
Hi friend!
Imagine if you were soloing it. I can understand soloing on solid rock but never ice.
No, indeed! I would never solo ice - or rock for that matter ;)
What I learn is never climb ice. Far to scary.
3:44 error in subtitle
Hei man. Really cool how you re-edited this video and are more thoughtful about your fall. It's really important, especially towards new climbers (a big part of your audience I assume). And by the way! You should come to the Oppdal Ice climbing Festival and make a good edit out of it ;)
Cheers.
Nelson
Hi Nelson! :D
Thank you very much. I think the message of the original video was easily misunderstood, so I decided to rework it :) Yes, a big amount of climbers that watch my videos are beginners, so it is really important that they get the right level of information.
I have actually looked at Oppdal several times - I am part of the facebook group on ice climbing conditions at Trondheim, and it looks really great up there :)
How would you get to Oppdal from e.g. Oslo? By flight or car?
Rush Junkies, yes, they do sometimes pay a high price for the high rush, same for drug users.TH
Seems like a voluntary fall to me. Why the drama ?
When I fell on ice it was horrifying and totally my fault. I had on all the fancy high quality gear from icebreaker base layer to Arcteryx Proton LT and Gamma MX and gamma mx pants, motus beenie, arcteryx boots and alpha sl gloves: everything top of the line... but i didn't think about crampons all that much for whatever reason. It was a mistake I'd live to regret. Even while wearing all my fancy gear now I know better and I'll never get my morning starbucks again without my crampons.
if you aren t strong enough to rest on your tools u shouldn t climb steep ice... just my opinion
lol did you you see your life flash in front of you?
Haha, yeah! More or less :p
Thats a bigass fall
So just to be totally clear. This is your second attempt with this video. In the first video you said you let go and took the fall because it was safe. Then every ice climber with an internet connection called you an idiot and provided you with the links and safety tips that you're sharing in this video... Missing anything?
Hi KT Lain 😉
As I mentioned several times for you on Facebook the fall was not intended and it was not to earn money off TH-cam. I pumped out, could not pull myself over the overhang and fell as a consequence of that.
Actually, it was more or less only you and a very small group of people who kept holding on to your own version of the story despite of me telling you the facts several times. Actually most people said I should just ignore you 😉
As I also mentioned on Facebook I got some good, constructive feedback, and decided to embed that in a re-edit of the video as some people (including yourself) clearly misunderstood the message. So, I thought is was appropriate to rework the video and include a few comments on how the fall could have been avoided and why falling on ice is considered dangerous.
I think the link you shared is a good read, so I thought it might be worthwhile passing on to my viewers.
Please be remindful about TH-cam’s conditions in terms of keeping a good tone in the comments section.
Thank you and stay safe 😄
Keese Lane jeez whats wrong with showing a video of a fall? Where is all the hate coming from?
@@SuccessinTech because this video is a farcry from his original video about the fall where he talked about falling on ice being safe.
Hi@@kevinmcbride9343
As I mention above and on several Facebook groups the first video conveyed a message that was easy to misunderstand - and I do understand why some people misunderstood the video. But with all communication that is not a problem that lies with the receiver, but a problem with that lies with the the messenger.
So, I decided to pull down the video and redo it, so there are no doubt about whether or not I believe falling on ice is safe, and the video is not sending a message to beginner ice climbers that falling on ice should be considered without risk - of cause the risks are much higher falling on ice.
Enjoy climbing and stay safe.
@@Cragcloud all that matters is we got something to learn from this video,some tips,someone can be a very good Climber but may ignore small safety related precautions,and it can be fatal,so watching such video can make use more careful and educated while we do climb.U hv put good effort.
Thanks
Var i tvivl om du var dansker vurderet ud fra din accent.. Indtil jeg hørte “Arrrh! det var tæt på!”
Haha, ja, accented er vidst heller ikke til at løbe fra 😅😜
Made the comments 64 because we not from 63rd rip von
Not sure I understand your comment :)
@@Cragcloud hahahha in sorry i was reprensing king von
Sorry i suk at spelling
The video was reasonable. Don't forget the fact that you should have just picked an easier route. You aren't fit enough for that and you generally should not be remotely approaching pump when ice climbing, Although I've been there myself. Do more training!
Thank you for your feedback, C.
I’ve climbed plenty of WI5’s, so that grade is well within my comfort zone, but you are right - one should always read the route first an evaluate whether you feel you can climb it. But I don’t feel it was the grade of the climb - I fell on the last move, where I had to pull myself over the overhang to top out.
Climbing WI5 and up will generally always create some sort of pump and fatigue, but they key is to climb efficient and to rest properly when needed.
@@Cragcloud clearly not, your ain't fooling anyone dude. You were not comfy on that what so ever, and you were pumped out as you said. There's no heros in grave yards so either train or do something easier.
Hi again @C. I am not trying to fool anyone, and you are absolutely right - there are no heroes in grave yards ;)
By the way, you are more than welcome studying my logbook which is publicly available at www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.php?id=234130&sort=g&country=0&crag=0&gradetype=7&partner=0&year=0&season=0&nresults=100&pg=1, where you can see which ice climbing routes I have been climbing since I started logging my climbs in 2015. If you wonder why "Ta i et Takk", which was the route I fell on isn't in my logbook, then it is because it is logged as a mixed climbing route. I have set a filter on ice climbs, but you can clear that and see my complete logbook including sport climbing, trad climbing, mixed climbing and alpine climbing too :)
Enjoy climbing and stay safe
Lol arm pump. Work your hands and arms already