What Bonnie Zieman had to say about people sometimes needing to take a total break from the whole JW world, and suppressing their experiences and then later on coming back and really looking at what happened and why and how--that resonates very strongly with me. That is precisely what I've done! I left in 2013 and it has only been since January 2017 that I began watching videos, reading blogs, joined the exJW facebook group. I had no idea how much was buried and it has been liberating to finally get these things put in the proper perspective. It's nice to know that's a normal reaction!
Bridgette, it is a normal reaction! That is the value of reading some books on the topic or watching TH-cam videos at some point in our recovery. It normalizes our reactions and feelings. We discover we're not going "crazy" or completely alone. It affirms many of our experiences and instincts. Thank you for sharing that.
I left back in 2016 and only this year have I started watching and reading EX JW opinions and I still can’t believe that people experienced the same childhood/lifestyle as me!
My husband never tried to get me to stop being a Jehovah Witness but when I came to the realization at an assembly when the speaker said if Armageddon was to come that day there would only be 8,873 survivors (the number of JW’s in the Hawaiian Islands) some clapped. It was as if someone slapped me in the face...my husband has more integrity than many brothers I knew over the 20 yrs as a JW, my son and non JW family were good people. I went home and put in WT CD and typed salvation and for over a month I started research using the bound WT bound volumes and literature and as you can say the scales fell from my eyes, then about two months later I told my husband what happened and that I realized I had been lied to...he was shocked and so happy; I had three bible studies going and had to tell them why I had to top teaching. It has been a Long journey out but I try not to attack others still in and only give my story if they ask. The websites have helped and it take time to get beyond the feeling of betrayal of the many lies they print as masters of manipulation. Thank you for your books and Lloyd for your work.
Shirley Christiansen my Inlaws are part of that 8,873 “survivors” - I’m sure they heard that same speech but unfortunately that didn’t wake them up like how it woke you up. My father in law always puts down the Catholic religion ( I was born and raised Catholic ) everytime he comes over to our house. That’s what motivated me to look into the JW religion and OH BOY have I found the Truth! I hope soon they wake up and if they never do then that religion will die w them bcus none of their 5 kids chose to become baptized and follow that cult.
@@Onazzz808 give them the old watchtower articles that condemn the Catholics. Interestingly, JWs now fit the things that they condemn the Catholics for. Show the similarities. Going to religious leaders for God's forgiveness, etc. Disfellowshipping
Who doesn't love Bonnie Zieman?? Very well respected ExJw and phenomenal writer. I'm thinking her newest book is really going to help alot of therapists help people from various cults get a more customized treatment plan...
You pick up a lot of problems when you are inside of a cult, even if you don't feel that you did; phobias, fear, lack of emotional development and dependencies. Everyone needs some professional help when exiting a high-control group.
Bonnie, I loved your book for therapists (even though I’m a recovering exJW and not a therapist). Thanks for the good work Lloyd and Bonnie. It matters a lot!
Yes, yes, yes!!!! You both are exactly right. They are offended when you do try to give them the powerful information to help them get out. It is a very contentious situation because where there is this much anger and frustration - the emotions run very high. It is heart breaking, and creates a great deal of bitterness within families, when the freed ones see the hold cults have over loved ones. Cults most definitely tear apart families. Thank you both for your calming tone and wonderful insight. It doesn’t take away my bitterness and anger, but it definitely helps me to realize I can only be here if they wake up, but I can’t make them take steps they don’t choose too.
I've been out 3 years and I was about to move on from watching ex-JW videos and put it all behind me, then this great video came up on my subscriptions. Great job---as always!
Thanks Guillermo. I have some more great interviews lined up, so I do hope you'll stick around! But yes, Bonnie was fantastic. It was an education talking to her.
GuillermoVilla Lol. I know!! I haven't been near the jdubs since I was in my early twenties. Loathed them as a child when growing up, increasingly disturbed by them as adult. Thankfully, always had friends out. However. I teach a couple of JW kids so went back in, online, to find out about any changes...just awful! Also really useful to see the huge doctrinal changes, the breakdown of mind control, etc. The dubs do come knocking sometimes.
One thing I'd like to comment about...If you're married to an active or devout JW, and you're "out" and awake--and you're marriage has been strained or troubled from the beginning, seeing a therapist is vital to your well-being. Excellent interview! Tremendously timely and insightful information. Thank you, Lloyd!
I've found from personal experience and through the experience of others, it seems that the people that question and wake up from a young age seem to have a much higher intelligence. especially in the area of logical thinkers and deep thinkers...interesting. great interview and bonnie seems like a very smart person
I went through all the mental trauma apon leaving. I had therapy for my divorce and never mentioned being a jw but one thing I did was started writing do to my therapist suggestion. That helped but I was experiencing Armageddon triggers and nightmares often and so after 20 years away I finally opened myself up to this kind of help and wow! I am so grateful I have. If ever my sister or family wake up and come to me I should be able to help them gradually break herself free. Of course she will need to do her own research because I wouldn't want to scare her back. Good advise.
BONNIE was intramental in helping me heal. Not only did I read all her books..we briefly messaged each other and she was encouraging and helpful to me. Thx Bonnie
Oh my YES! Keep going, you are an important person in my life. Please continue? Don't stop making these healing videos, I beg of you!!! I'd love to see you create more of you...a franchise, perhaps? Something like that. I'd love to see your guest be a someone like you who wishes to make his or her contribution such as you have been making. A forum of ex-cult members turned leaders of recovery? I love what you are doing. Thank you! Love it!!! Won't you just expand? Think, to the size of a mega church, but only with you it's Mega Liberty. The scale of your operation to be a freeway out of cults rather than a road out of JW's. But, I see that maybe you already thought of that! I am happy to see it!!
Thanks Lloyd and Bonnie for sharing this. Great work by both of you , having read Bonnie's book I can say it's been so useful in dealing with the trauma and disorientation of leaving the JW cult, and of course always nice to put a face and voice to a name! On a more aesthetic note re: production. Great use of lighting and setting for this video. Well done Lloyd.
Great video! I just wanted to add to the point that going to a therapist that doesn't understand JW's isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have experienced healing by helping educate therapists I have went to about the cult. It feels amazing to actually make a difference by helping enlighten a mental health professional to the situation with the JW's. So, don't forgo therapy because of ignorance in the mental health community, be a messenger for them. And bring Zieman's book with you!
exjwphilosophy So true! Some therapists will be fascinated to learn about what you experienced in a cult and grateful to learn it from someone in the know.
Thanks Bonnie for your helpful insights. We have many things in common. I disassociated myself 40 years ago after 1975 having been raised a JW in Toronto and baptized at 13 in 1958. After high school became a pioneer moved to "serve where the need is great" in a french congregation in Ottawa from 1968 to 1971 and later to Spain from 1972 to 1976. It was difficult dealing with the traumatic stress of being shunned by my family and friends but for me overcoming cognitive dissonance and establishing my personal integrity was more important. Even today I find myself having to deal with subconscious guilt because of my JW indoctrination. Recently I was diagnosed with a type of bone cancer where blood transfusion is the only treatment. After all these years, I actually felt very uneasy having a blood transfusion and having to face prospects of death.
Larry, we do have a lot in common! I'm sorry to hear about the blood cancer - but happy you are now in a position where you can make the required choice to save your life. Guilt is an insidious thing - and something we need to work to let go of, when we can. I have a chapter on guilt and its various manifestations in my book "The Challenge to Heal". You might find some helpful info there. Well Bravo YOU for being willing to bear the unavoidable consequences of choosing integrity over indoctrination!
As always a real class job! Love your videos and your articulation, you back up what you say!! After 48 years in that JW Cult and 3 years free now, I look for facts! thank you for your excellent work!!
I am a psychotherapist though not practicing I have a masters degree in psychology and practiced for about two years... I love to talk about the psychological aspects of the JW cult. Now i see that instead of talking about a particular date (i.e., 1975) now the JW's use "Go Bags" and other mock demonstrations of how to deal with the great tribulation when it arrives. Once again, they plant many seeds, drive it home with fear and repetition and deny the fruits when it turns out to be false: just a tactic to keep the fear strong and the sheep chasing the carrot. Then that generation dies off and they repeat the process with the next, unfortunately for the organization the pattern is dying out and with generation X and the millennials children no longer buying into this crap in the information age. Basically, the last generation to accept such hogwash was the Baby Boomers which is why the organization is comprised mostly of ages 50 plus. Another 50 years and it will be gone; the GB knows this and is doing everything in their power to shield the people from historical facts and information that proves what they have done and how they cannot be gods organization. They are stepping up the information control, fear tactics and separating from family and friends outside of the organization because if they did not they would lose the blue hairs they have left.
Go bags are not for the Great Tribulation. Even governments endorse that you should have a Go Bag. Having a go bag specifically for the Great Tribulation goes against JW teachings.
I have a friend and coworker who was just baptized(or whatever they call it) into JW just a couple months ago. I wanted so badly to encourage her not to, but I already knew her brother was in. She said she liked the way they treated each other. Between the love bombing and the fact her brother was already in I didn't dare say a word. She had been working towards it for about 3 years too. She already has a "fiancé" she's never really even been alone with. I hope she wakes up sooner than later.
Great video and so informative. I am just now after 30 out realizing how much was taken from me. Keep up the good work!!! Therapy works I know it saved my life.
Faye Roberson , been watching everything John Cedars and everyone else on TH-cam. I just posted a comment that echoed your comment. It is mind boggling, all these accounts. I think at 8 I was seeing things that for some reason others in my family did not see or hear but of course I couldn’t say anything, I was always in trouble and making remarks would not have fared well for me. 🤗
Yes, I left over 25+ I got on with my life. I just recently started listening to these videos. What I found interesting is I had no idea of all the information I had been taught was not correct. I just left because it didn't feel right. I started reading information and realized I am control my life. Thank you so much for your videos. I appreciate her story, it is so like mine story.
The healing handbook has been so helpful to me. It makes me want to cry out of joy for how helpful this amazing woman is. I wish I could thank her personally.
I faded in 1984 as a young teen, after I witnessed violent child abuse. I reported it to the Elders and was astounded that they proceeded to sanitize the crime. I have recently become obsessed with the governing body and ex JW stories. I must have PTSD from my childhood that is finding it's way to the surface.
Thanks for your work, this was a really great video. Bonnie has such incredible insight into so many of our shared jw experiences. unrelated lloyd youre glowing up lately (looking good!)
Hi John and Bonnie. Been 'out' around 20 yrs now. Was raised since 2yrs as a JW by my mum who was very abusive verbally and had a very difficult time as a child. Became ill around 11 (i'd tried overdosing around this time too) and was eventually diagnosed as having M.E. (C.F.S.). Due to home life and JW's i'd ended up not sleeping well and suffering multiple bouts of what i now know to be sleep paralysis though at the time i believed it was demonic presence in my room which could las hours and as i said multiple times .. very fightning at the time. At 26 i got out (escaped!) being sucidal at the time. I moved far away (common for ex JW's it seems) and after marriage/divorce i sought help for my mental health. I eventually got to see a therapist who was brilliant. He was a humanistic therapist and i feel i owe him so much, i'll forever be grateful for his approach to listen even though i never understood what was going on with me during the opening years of my therapy. I came to understand what had happened since childhood that still affects me now and though every day i have to manage my illness i have happness that comes with understanding. I have found CBT to be damaging for myself and i have also found the direction my GP's point me toward is damaging as they push CBT. Sadly i'm without any therapy now as my therapist had to bow out due to his health and the charity he ran has since adopted a more CBT oriented approach. I'm commenting here (hope i don't regret) because i feel there is a massive lack of humanistic therapy (i'm in UK) and a lack of such options available for folk. I'd love to see the government give humanistic therapy as much backing as CBT so when we go to our GP's we have choice. This is very important i feel. Not sure how others feel but i have great difficulty communicating with folk and coping from day to day in this world so to feel a lack of therapy options available to me is damaging. I really enjoyed the video, thanks to both you and Bonnie. Your vids help me feel o.k. as i still feel a need to cover ex JW issues in my mind so .. thanks again!
Medic Maniac You make some interesting points. I'm surprised you are having difficulty find a therapist who works from a humanistic approach, perhaps you need to find a therapist who has experience in several forms of therapy and approaches the work with an integrative style - using whatever approach is needed at the time. Keep reading good self-help books that can impart some self-management skills. All the best ...
This has been, at least for me, and so far the best video.. It was the perfect timing. The best advice. Food at the proper time, lol. Sorry had to throw that in. Dude I have list of books to buy. Thank you!!!
I can see how one would love talking with her. Her empathy shines as she does. Wonderful interview. (I journalled just before my divorce and it was a tremendous help.)
A thought I had while listening to ms. Zieman speak, when she mentioned she was having to explain to people in her "broken" french that their religion was wrong. I always felt it was unfair that we pushed our literature on people while not being reciprocal in taking their church's literature. It was like, we want you to read our crap, but we won't accept your crap in return. It just seemed so one sided. But, yeah... jw is a one way street for sure. More books for me to read on this topic. Thanks Lloyd! Keep up the good work sir! Cheers pal.
Yes, after 60 yrs in the org. I started to wake up and research, I realized it was a big lying con . And now I m a whistle blower to the friends to research and get to the whole cover up of this mind control cult !
Yes, so right about the shunning, daughter and brother are doing this to me in the last year , it's very sad and does hurt alot, you will go through a morning process but it will get better and talk to your Dr. And tell him what your going through! ! My Dr. Said it was all on them! To not feel guilty , like I did such a horrible thing by leaving this false cult ! It's on them alone, not you !
Indeed, unless the therapist themselves has been in a cult they would be of little use to an ex-JW. Many ex-JWs have told me that help was lacking from therapists.
John Cedars! Awesome! This is something highly needed. I left the JW organization long ago and very successfully. The strongest part in doing so was family matters. It is unbelievable how much love the JW's show you apparently before you are baptized, and while you are active, and how easily they destroy families turning them against each others when someone tries to get out or find their way out of this false cult.The JWs becomes very mean and bad against you, like they never new you before. The Watch Tower calls it tough love, but it's really "Bull Crap". The JW's organization is one of the most destructive cult I have ever been to. Also they look really bad at people that is not a Jehova Witness, and they are very selfish shearing only amongst themselves besides keeping family members away just because they are a JW. I personally spelled them completely OUT of my life, and feel a lot happier ever since. I definitely, highly recommend to any ex JW to seek a professional therapist help, because I know how difficult and how hard it is to be free of these false sects. There is a song that this famous singer Tony Braxton used to sing named "Unbrake my heart", which now I sing to all JW's "Unwash My Brain". My regards
Thank you !!!! What a great interview ...very informative...Im going to buy one of her books ...Im glad there a lot help....and to you John you are like family to me ...Im here in Florida USA ....thank you !!!!
Great interview guys. Really enjoyed it. One issue tho...and pls don't think this means i disliked the interview, it's just a single issue i'd like to bring up: Bonnie says that she takes a passive position because JWs are adults and can access the information for themselves, but i think that's highly debatable. They are not really free to access the information, anymore than a JW is free to refuse/accept a blood transfusion; Is their refusal of blood really a "personal choice" that they made themselves, with the elders literally there at the hospital watching over their shoulder? The church stops them, it threatens them, they're even chastised for daring to consider it. Remember what *Steven Hassan* was saying in your interview regarding JWs & "informed consent" when deciding to refuse a blood transfusion. They can't be defined as having "informed consent", if the church is explicitly forbidding them from reading anything that challenges their beliefs. No, JWs are not free as adults to access the information for themselves. I must bow to Bonnie's expertise tho, perhaps her position on this has more nuance to it than could fit into the interview.
Roidroid, thank you for sharing these thoughts! It's challenging to fully explain my position in a few minutes during an interview. The principle I follow is "not to interfere and not to abandon". If a loved one is about to sacrifice their life by refusing blood, that would be an occasion to "not abandon" and to speak up to help save a life. I would do exactly what you suggest you would do. My approach is not "passive". If my sister was taking her children to a Hall where we knew there was a pedophile in attendance, I would NEVER be 'passive'. I would speak to her and hope she could 'hear' me. You are right that JWs are not free to access information because of all the brainwashing. However, once they begin to doubt or have questions information is easily accessible. Your trying to push it on them before that would not work. Many now report that they escaped the clutches of the organization by daring to break the rules and read something on the internet. When we present information that contradicts firmly held beliefs, it produces cognitive dissonance in the person receiving the new information. Cognitive dissonance makes humans anxious. To get rid of the discomfort of anxiety, our mind dismisses or deletes the new, contradictory information and latches back on, even more tightly, to what we already know. Then the anxiety abates and we feel comfortable and infer from that comfort that we are believing the correct thing - because it makes us feel better. That said, no one has to follow the way I have decided to handle this situation. I admire your care and concern and hope that if you decide to make an intervention with an active JW that it works out for you both. There is never just one way to approach things. It is rarely either/or.
I really enjoyed this video, I am training to become a psycho therapist in the uk (2 years left) and will certainly be reading her books. Mother in law is a JW and tried her best to convert me with no luck. In fact I stumbled across your channel looking for info to counter her claims. Keep up the good work Lloyd .
Thank you. You gave me Bonnie's info earlier. I have trouble sleeping and all that goes with it. I'm on disability right now. I won't be able to get any books for a while until i get my retro back pay. No monies right now. I was able to get Steve Hassan older book at the libray, that was helpful.
very good interview john this lady speaks about a lot of what I went through being an x jw and how lonly you feel coming out of a cult these type of videos are good for us x jehovah s witnesses
Bonnie Zieman 😊. I purchased Lloyd's book on Amazon last night , the Kindle edition. It's fabulous and I can related to his experiences growing up as a JW. Thanks again!
I loved the answer about its not our write to interfer and wake up family member. I totaly would not want to pop my parents bubble... even thou i miss them
I've never been to the Facebook group. But your warning about *lies* makes me suspicious - coz that's the sortof thing witnesses say about apostates, they say it's all lies. Why are you talking like that.
I had a similar feeling, Matthew. That religion was my mother's life and although she never saw their promised (bogus) rewards, she would have collapsed had she learned about all their deceptions. I broke her heart by leaving, and was not going to do more damage by tearing down her treasured beliefs. That said ... I know there are many who see it differently and whose families have different dynamics that require different responses.
I started seeing a therapist in my early 20s because I was depressed (at the time I didn't realize my depression started at 10 years old). I don't think I ever mentioned that I had grown up as a JW. It wasn't until my late 20s that I realized that 50% of the reason why I was so screwed up was because I grew up in this cult. I'm happy to say I'm in a much better place mentally than I was in my youth, but I still consider myself a work in progress. Unfortunately (for them) I have close family members who are still cult members. So it still has an effect on my life.
Been an EX for about 30 years but just in the last couple years have I realized it WAS A CULT. I would get upset with any reference to the religion being a cult. Even though I didn’t believe it I respected others rights and my close family all died thinking they weren’t going to die.
Very good advice talking and writing is truly helpful. I personally fine that the thinking for yourself outside the mind control from JW takes a while. Watching all these videos is also very helpful.. Thank you both.
Fantastic interview... She gives some really insightful advice for those who have got out and are grieving for the loss of their cherished beliefs. However, I wouldn't agree that people should be left alone believing whatever they want. I do think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. As you do with your videos and advice, I think (aside from the threat of shunning) one should strive to help and aid those trapped on the inside to see the truth about this cult, rather than await for them to want to take that step.
I have been a witness for 30 years. It’s as if I had found out fantastical beautiful truths from scripture about god. And I did. It was from god but those who delivered it were the witnesses. So as I learned these truths I began to trust the people and their doctrines, after all I was already learning fantastical things, and that was the mistake. I let my guard down never continuing the analyzing of doctrine. That is the trap is using something good and beautiful then slyly using that as a stepping stone of confidence to the not so accurate doctrine.
Door work is not interfering with someone’s life. It’s introducing the scriptures a a way to live your life. Giving people an option that maybe they haven’t thought of. Nothing negative about helping people in their search for God. There are people who welcome this. As long as a JW keeps it brief and knows when to go, and to be considerate of busy lives
John, or anyone else that can help me... an Ex JW has written a fiction book or series about "after armageddon". I can't seem to remember the name of the book and cant find a book that rings the bell for me.. Could someone share the name and author of the book? Thanks in advance
I was born into the religion a.k.a. JW, and was blessed by God by opening my eyes to certain scriptures. The problem I have is commitment to another church or institution. I compare without even realizing it ... so afraid that I'll fall into the same trap.
I think it's important to listen to them and ask them how they feel. Maybe encourage them to write about it. They need to figure it out on their own . We can just be there to reaffirm their feelings.
Except one day they might wake up finally, after many years, and say "but why didn't you even TRY to wake me up?? I could've been out 15 years ago instead of wasting so many more years!" But yes I think it's best not to be pushy, but at least we should try, as long as we aren't angry bitter or emotional.
That may be true. But anecdotal reports from thousands make clear that the vast majority of efforts to share what we have discovered are rejected and often make them avoid or shun us even more. If we can keep a kind, compassionate attitude around them, they know they can approach us to better understand our position and answer any of their questions if they desire. If some came back and said that to me, I would kindly ask if they think they really would have been open to hearing anything I had to say. That said, if a family member gave any hint or indication that they were curious or needing help I would not 'abandon' them and would offer to supply any information they needed.
It's true that you can't push in a mind something from outside. What you can do is to wake the inside with the questions the street epistemologists ask as "How do you know what you know?".
It comes down to personal introspection within oneself. Whom do you put your trust in? Men or God. In my personal experience I believe that God lead me out of that organization, because I had concerns about many issues. When one is taught from very young to question, seek, and research other's beliefs and our own, then the spirit leads us to truth in all things. It is truth that Scripture is a double-edged sword that cuts both ways, and when we examine the Watchtower under the lens of scripture they do not pass the test.
This idea of being “awakened” is like saying I was asleep before as a JW. No! You weren’t asleep. JWs have a very good bible education. If it wasn’t for the JWs I would know my bible or God. Churches wouldn’t have taught me the bible. I’ve been out and in active for 5 years, but I’m very appreciative of having been raised as a JW and been taught the bibles morals and principles. They have given me the tools to be able to determine for myself the correctness of any church organisation.
I think the WT is like going down in a deep hole or well, they'll even sell you a rope to get down in it, but climbing out is some hard work. I had no idea I was in so deep but so glad I'm out.
Hope I didn't post this twice, if so sorry, pc problems :) Thank you both, Bonnie and Lloyd for this information. The process of waking up can truly be traumatic. It was and has been for me. The thing about it in my case is that I still believe in God. Just not a charred hot dog, slaughtering, unforgiving God that TPT incessantly babbles on about. He doesn’t realize that he is on the scales and will probably wake up here on earth with the rest of us. No heavenly bliss for you TPT!
Since I've been out as much as I've tried to show or tell others what I now know about Jehovah's witnesses organization it hasn't helped anyone in my family wake up who wasn't already in the process and what your guest said is probably true that they will probably just start to view you as an apostate for someone who is under the control of satan ...its much easier to help younger more rebellious or opened minded witnesses than older one who have invested most of there lives and who are to afraid of even thinking that they might be wrong about there beliefs ..
Many JW's suffer from depression. They are told not to get professional help but to talk to the elders who just tell them pray more and do more service etc. My daughter suffers severe depression and is so brain washed won't hear or see anything negative about the society. Her life is her only child left the JW so she thinks she and her whole family is going to die a horrible death at Armageddon. Her life is meetings, door to door service,going on JW.org and staying home alone just going out if she has to shop. They even got her to stop FB and she obeys and suffers depression. I try to get her to see a professional but of course she won't. She said she knows a lot who are depressed and if they see someone pro they give them meds.All negative is apostates she believes as that is what they pound in their heads. Apostates who want them to leave the org and die. I pray for Yahshua to get her out.
This sounds similar to war veterans suffering from PTSD. My dad is a Vietnam vet struggling w PTSD and he wouldn’t see any therapist unless they too was a war veteran.
Human rights should be a religious issue, even more so than a government issue. If a loving God exists and created humankind, would he not be very concerned about human rights?
Surely the first thing we should be concerned with is our continued relationship with Jehovah God? It’s not so much about leaving an organisation, it’s about our continuing of our faith in Jesus and whether or not we are able to keep on the right spiritual track. We don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not many ex JWs speak about their continued faith.
Hi Joanne, I think many people who have left the group find themselves questioning the existence of God as well, I know that is the case with me. That is perhaps why many people who are no longer in the organization don't talk about their continued relationship with the Almighty.
@@soundofsilence1945 im here because I started therapy by chance. I poped on a drug test so I started checking the box to save my job. The therapist asked questions trying to identify my alcohol and drug issues. Ive been going to group but I know it was something else and I need to know what it is. I kept thinking buried childhood trauma but I hadn't been able to recall any. Then my wife downloaded a kindle book, her book. Ive read 5 chapters this morning and the scab has been ripped open again. I have almost every symptom she mentioned. The brain eashing, the guilt... tgat one us the toughest. My stonewalling when I feel attacked. I was in from the sge of 12 to 17. It was an an elder put the moves on me. My parents took his sidexand I rebelled. Kissed a girl that month for the first time, got drunk for the first tme, had sex for the furst time. I jumped the fence and ran full gallop. I was bottled up but the guilt, fuck! I joined the Navy, it felt like suicide and armagedon was hoing to get me. I played for years that I could live a full life until I eas 25. That was my negotiation. I 'm fucked in the head and finally know I can start healing. The faith questions on this thread, I went through that too. Athirsm, agnostism, finally full circle with the idea that we are God not God in us. Joseph Campbell who she mentioned was a good source. " God is a metaphore" Look you must remember that bing in this cult robbed you of years of transformative growth. It's ok not to know for sure. Ken Wilber wrote an anology about enlightenment. Its a mountain with many sides and hights and different views. Some see more from a higher perspective but they don't see the other side of that mountain. I just wanted to share that. Be weary of all cultish religon but don't close yourself off, you did that for years. All truths are partial so there is always an element of truth but use dicernment. Integrate and trancend your beliefs.
It’s sounds to me like she was never really in the religion. How could one not enjoy being a special pioneer speaking to people about the scriptures. Reasoning with people about the way to search for truth
I strongly disagree with what this psychotherapist claimed, that it is not your business to interfere in how they believe. She is turning a blind eye to the continued child abuse, which allows it to continues; which makes her an accomplice.
I think you're putting words in her mouth. Bonnie isn't saying you can't speak out about child abuse mishandling, only that it's naive to presume that you can change other's beliefs to conform with yours.
What Bonnie Zieman had to say about people sometimes needing to take a total break from the whole JW world, and suppressing their experiences and then later on coming back and really looking at what happened and why and how--that resonates very strongly with me. That is precisely what I've done! I left in 2013 and it has only been since January 2017 that I began watching videos, reading blogs, joined the exJW facebook group. I had no idea how much was buried and it has been liberating to finally get these things put in the proper perspective. It's nice to know that's a normal reaction!
Bridgette, it is a normal reaction! That is the value of reading some books on the topic or watching TH-cam videos at some point in our recovery. It normalizes our reactions and feelings. We discover we're not going "crazy" or completely alone. It affirms many of our experiences and instincts. Thank you for sharing that.
Bonnie Zieman That is for replying! It was a real pleasure to watch your interview--especially since you're a fellow escapee!
:)
Bonnie Zieman ...I would like to buy one of your books...how can I find them?
I left back in 2016 and only this year have I started watching and reading EX JW opinions and I still can’t believe that people experienced the same childhood/lifestyle as me!
My husband never tried to get me to stop being a Jehovah Witness but when I came to the realization at an assembly when the speaker said if Armageddon was to come that day there would only be 8,873 survivors (the number of JW’s in the Hawaiian Islands) some clapped. It was as if someone slapped me in the face...my husband has more integrity than many brothers I knew over the 20 yrs as a JW, my son and non JW family were good people. I went home and put in WT CD and typed salvation and for over a month I started research using the bound WT bound volumes and literature and as you can say the scales fell from my eyes, then about two months later I told my husband what happened and that I realized I had been lied to...he was shocked and so happy; I had three bible studies going and had to tell them why I had to top teaching. It has been a Long journey out but I try not to attack others still in and only give my story if they ask. The websites have helped and it take time to get beyond the feeling of betrayal of the many lies they print as masters of manipulation. Thank you for your books and Lloyd for your work.
Shirley Christiansen my Inlaws are part of that 8,873 “survivors” - I’m sure they heard that same speech but unfortunately that didn’t wake them up like how it woke you up. My father in law always puts down the Catholic religion ( I was born and raised Catholic ) everytime he comes over to our house. That’s what motivated me to look into the JW religion and OH BOY have I found the Truth! I hope soon they wake up and if they never do then that religion will die w them bcus none of their 5 kids chose to become baptized and follow that cult.
I would to hear more about why only 8873 survivors would make it to armageddon.
@@garyh3730 it was the number off JW in the assistance of the meeting.
@@Onazzz808 give them the old watchtower articles that condemn the Catholics. Interestingly, JWs now fit the things that they condemn the Catholics for. Show the similarities. Going to religious leaders for God's forgiveness, etc. Disfellowshipping
Who doesn't love Bonnie Zieman?? Very well respected ExJw and phenomenal writer. I'm thinking her newest book is really going to help alot of therapists help people from various cults get a more customized treatment plan...
Hey - thanks Annette!
It should. A therapist needs to understand the JW mindset.
You pick up a lot of problems when you are inside of a cult, even if you don't feel that you did; phobias, fear, lack of emotional development and dependencies. Everyone needs some professional help when exiting a high-control group.
Bonnie, I loved your book for therapists (even though I’m a recovering exJW and not a therapist). Thanks for the good work Lloyd and Bonnie. It matters a lot!
Yes, yes, yes!!!! You both are exactly right. They are offended when you do try to give them the powerful information to help them get out. It is a very contentious situation because where there is this much anger and frustration - the emotions run very high. It is heart breaking, and creates a great deal of bitterness within families, when the freed ones see the hold cults have over loved ones. Cults most definitely tear apart families. Thank you both for your calming tone and wonderful insight. It doesn’t take away my bitterness and anger, but it definitely helps me to realize I can only be here if they wake up, but I can’t make them take steps they don’t choose too.
I've been out 3 years and I was about to move on from watching ex-JW videos and put it all behind me, then this great video came up on my subscriptions. Great job---as always!
Thanks Guillermo. I have some more great interviews lined up, so I do hope you'll stick around! But yes, Bonnie was fantastic. It was an education talking to her.
GuillermoVilla Lol. I know!! I haven't been near the jdubs since I was in my early twenties. Loathed them as a child when growing up, increasingly disturbed by them as adult. Thankfully, always had friends out. However. I teach a couple of JW kids so went back in, online, to find out about any changes...just awful! Also really useful to see the huge doctrinal changes, the breakdown of mind control, etc. The dubs do come knocking sometimes.
John Cedars Looking forward to it!!!
Tanya Kasafir The kid videos on JW.org are particularly disturbing--such as One Man One woman and the one about listening at the meetings or die..
GuillermoVilla they love using the noahs ark story 2 indoctrinate kids, my childhood nightmares were because of it.
Excellent interview with such a wonderful, wise, knowledgeable and loving person. Her books are a fantastic resource for healing.
Thank you!
Thank you Abigail!
One thing I'd like to comment about...If you're married to an active or devout JW, and you're "out" and awake--and you're marriage has been strained or troubled from the beginning, seeing a therapist is vital to your well-being. Excellent interview! Tremendously timely and insightful information. Thank you, Lloyd!
Excellent advice, the greatest healing occurs when one is heard. Keep up the good work John Cedars and Bonnie Zieman.
I've found from personal experience and through the experience of others, it seems that the people that question and wake up from a young age seem to have a much higher intelligence. especially in the area of logical thinkers and deep thinkers...interesting. great interview and bonnie seems like a very smart person
I went through all the mental trauma apon leaving. I had therapy for my divorce and never mentioned being a jw but one thing I did was started writing do to my therapist suggestion. That helped but I was experiencing Armageddon triggers and nightmares often and so after 20 years away I finally opened myself up to this kind of help and wow! I am so grateful I have. If ever my sister or family wake up and come to me I should be able to help them gradually break herself free. Of course she will need to do her own research because I wouldn't want to scare her back. Good advise.
Seeing a therapist was the reason I got the courage to tell my parents I didnt want to be a witness anymore
Im at that place. The thought of loosing my mother is really messing with me. We have a great relationship but she will shut me out if i walk
Fantastic discussion. Thank you, Lloyd, for arranging interview w Bonnie. Looks like I've a few books to add to my pile
Her books are great, knowing she's been there, done that, helps to know she truly understands.
Thanks Gayle. :)
thank you Bonnie Zieman
BONNIE was intramental in helping me heal. Not only did I read all her books..we briefly messaged each other and she was encouraging and helpful to me.
Thx Bonnie
Oh my YES! Keep going, you are an important person in my life. Please continue? Don't stop making these healing videos, I beg of you!!! I'd love to see you create more of you...a franchise, perhaps? Something like that. I'd love to see your guest be a someone like you who wishes to make his or her contribution such as you have been making. A forum of ex-cult members turned leaders of recovery? I love what you are doing. Thank you! Love it!!! Won't you just expand? Think, to the size of a mega church, but only with you it's Mega Liberty. The scale of your operation to be a freeway out of cults rather than a road out of JW's. But, I see that maybe you already thought of that! I am happy to see it!!
Thanks Lloyd and Bonnie for sharing this. Great work by both of you , having read Bonnie's book I can say it's been so useful in dealing with the trauma and disorientation of leaving the JW cult, and of course always nice to put a face and voice to a name! On a more aesthetic note re: production. Great use of lighting and setting for this video. Well done Lloyd.
Great video! I just wanted to add to the point that going to a therapist that doesn't understand JW's isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have experienced healing by helping educate therapists I have went to about the cult. It feels amazing to actually make a difference by helping enlighten a mental health professional to the situation with the JW's. So, don't forgo therapy because of ignorance in the mental health community, be a messenger for them. And bring Zieman's book with you!
exjwphilosophy So true! Some therapists will be fascinated to learn about what you experienced in a cult and grateful to learn it from someone in the know.
but most will not listen to anything negative about the cult.
Thanks Bonnie for your helpful insights. We have many things in common. I disassociated myself 40 years ago after 1975 having been raised a JW in Toronto and baptized at 13 in 1958. After high school became a pioneer moved to "serve where the need is great" in a french congregation in Ottawa from 1968 to 1971 and later to Spain from 1972 to 1976. It was difficult dealing with the traumatic stress of being shunned by my family and friends but for me overcoming cognitive dissonance and establishing my personal integrity was more important. Even today I find myself having to deal with subconscious guilt because of my JW indoctrination. Recently I was diagnosed with a type of bone cancer where blood transfusion is the only treatment. After all these years, I actually felt very uneasy having a blood transfusion and having to face prospects of death.
Larry, we do have a lot in common! I'm sorry to hear about the blood cancer - but happy you are now in a position where you can make the required choice to save your life. Guilt is an insidious thing - and something we need to work to let go of, when we can. I have a chapter on guilt and its various manifestations in my book "The Challenge to Heal". You might find some helpful info there. Well Bravo YOU for being willing to bear the unavoidable consequences of choosing integrity over indoctrination!
So thankful for blood donors!
Inspires me to be one too.
:)
As always a real class job! Love your videos and your articulation, you back up what you say!! After 48 years in that JW Cult and 3 years free now, I look for facts! thank you for your excellent work!!
I am a psychotherapist though not practicing I have a masters degree in psychology and practiced for about two years... I love to talk about the psychological aspects of the JW cult. Now i see that instead of talking about a particular date (i.e., 1975) now the JW's use "Go Bags" and other mock demonstrations of how to deal with the great tribulation when it arrives. Once again, they plant many seeds, drive it home with fear and repetition and deny the fruits when it turns out to be false: just a tactic to keep the fear strong and the sheep chasing the carrot. Then that generation dies off and they repeat the process with the next, unfortunately for the organization the pattern is dying out and with generation X and the millennials children no longer buying into this crap in the information age. Basically, the last generation to accept such hogwash was the Baby Boomers which is why the organization is comprised mostly of ages 50 plus. Another 50 years and it will be gone; the GB knows this and is doing everything in their power to shield the people from historical facts and information that proves what they have done and how they cannot be gods organization. They are stepping up the information control, fear tactics and separating from family and friends outside of the organization because if they did not they would lose the blue hairs they have left.
well said this new generation have so much information and they know how to get it quickly i dont think to many young jw will stay in
The only young ones staying in are the ones who have generations of JWs on either side; they usually have the most to lose.
what you say is true many young ones are leaving
true if all your family an friends in a lot harder to leave
Go bags are not for the Great Tribulation. Even governments endorse that you should have a Go Bag. Having a go bag specifically for the Great Tribulation goes against JW teachings.
I have a friend and coworker who was just baptized(or whatever they call it) into JW just a couple months ago. I wanted so badly to encourage her not to, but I already knew her brother was in. She said she liked the way they treated each other. Between the love bombing and the fact her brother was already in I didn't dare say a word. She had been working towards it for about 3 years too. She already has a "fiancé" she's never really even been alone with. I hope she wakes up sooner than later.
Great video and so informative. I am just now after 30 out realizing how much was taken from me. Keep up the good work!!! Therapy works I know it saved my life.
Faye Roberson , been watching everything John Cedars and everyone else on TH-cam. I just posted a comment that echoed your comment. It is mind boggling, all these accounts. I think at 8 I was seeing things that for some reason others in my family did not see or hear but of course I couldn’t say anything, I was always in trouble and making remarks would not have fared well for me. 🤗
Please interview this lovely lady again! We need her 🙏🏽❤️
Yes, I left over 25+ I got on with my life. I just recently started listening to these videos. What I found interesting is I had no idea of all the information I had been taught was not correct. I just left because it didn't feel right. I started reading information and realized I am control my life. Thank you so much for your videos. I appreciate her story, it is so like mine story.
Excellent interview! Very helpful information! I have downloaded samples of three of her books on my Kindle App!
The healing handbook has been so helpful to me. It makes me want to cry out of joy for how helpful this amazing woman is. I wish I could thank her personally.
Great video - “don’t interfere, but don’t abandon”
Thank you for this video. Its going to help some many people like myself. Please keep up the good work.
I faded in 1984 as a young teen, after I witnessed violent child abuse. I reported it to the Elders and was astounded that they proceeded to sanitize the crime. I have recently become obsessed with the governing body and ex JW stories. I must have PTSD from my childhood that is finding it's way to the surface.
Thank you for your amazing work. Bravo,!
thanks for the interview and thanks for this book, there is a definite need for it
You're welcome, Lulu.
Thanks for bringing us this story, Lloyd and Bonnie. I am definitely picking up your exiting JW book!
Thanks for your work, this was a really great video. Bonnie has such incredible insight into so many of our shared jw experiences.
unrelated lloyd youre glowing up lately (looking good!)
It is a travesty and loss not to see Lloyd on his channel. Please come back. Lloyd you have a majority following and the haters are minimal.
outstanding interview .... she has discovered these things on her own instead of immersing herself into the exJW community .... smart lady
Thank you vj.
Hi John and Bonnie.
Been 'out' around 20 yrs now. Was raised since 2yrs as a JW by my mum who was very abusive verbally and had a very difficult time as a child. Became ill around 11 (i'd tried overdosing around this time too) and was eventually diagnosed as having M.E. (C.F.S.). Due to home life and JW's i'd ended up not sleeping well and suffering multiple bouts of what i now know to be sleep paralysis though at the time i believed it was demonic presence in my room which could las hours and as i said multiple times .. very fightning at the time.
At 26 i got out (escaped!) being sucidal at the time. I moved far away (common for ex JW's it seems) and after marriage/divorce i sought help for my mental health.
I eventually got to see a therapist who was brilliant. He was a humanistic therapist and i feel i owe him so much, i'll forever be grateful for his approach to listen even though i never understood what was going on with me during the opening years of my therapy. I came to understand what had happened since childhood that still affects me now and though every day i have to manage my illness i have happness that comes with understanding.
I have found CBT to be damaging for myself and i have also found the direction my GP's point me toward is damaging as they push CBT.
Sadly i'm without any therapy now as my therapist had to bow out due to his health and the charity he ran has since adopted a more CBT oriented approach.
I'm commenting here (hope i don't regret) because i feel there is a massive lack of humanistic therapy (i'm in UK) and a lack of such options available for folk. I'd love to see the government give humanistic therapy as much backing as CBT so when we go to our GP's we have choice. This is very important i feel.
Not sure how others feel but i have great difficulty communicating with folk and coping from day to day in this world so to feel a lack of therapy options available to me is damaging.
I really enjoyed the video, thanks to both you and Bonnie. Your vids help me feel o.k. as i still feel a need to cover ex JW issues in my mind so .. thanks again!
Medic Maniac You make some interesting points. I'm surprised you are having difficulty find a therapist who works from a humanistic approach, perhaps you need to find a therapist who has experience in several forms of therapy and approaches the work with an integrative style - using whatever approach is needed at the time. Keep reading good self-help books that can impart some self-management skills. All the best ...
This has been, at least for me, and so far the best video.. It was the perfect timing. The best advice. Food at the proper time, lol. Sorry had to throw that in. Dude I have list of books to buy. Thank you!!!
I can see how one would love talking with her. Her empathy shines as she does. Wonderful interview. (I journalled just before my divorce and it was a tremendous help.)
Koolbraider Daigle thank you for such a kool comment!
A thought I had while listening to ms. Zieman speak, when she mentioned she was having to explain to people in her "broken" french that their religion was wrong. I always felt it was unfair that we pushed our literature on people while not being reciprocal in taking their church's literature. It was like, we want you to read our crap, but we won't accept your crap in return. It just seemed so one sided. But, yeah... jw is a one way street for sure. More books for me to read on this topic. Thanks Lloyd! Keep up the good work sir! Cheers pal.
Yes, after 60 yrs in the org. I started to wake up and research, I realized it was a big lying con . And now I m a whistle blower to the friends to research and get to the whole cover up of this mind control cult !
Yes, so right about the shunning, daughter and brother are doing this to me in the last year , it's very sad and does hurt alot, you will go through a morning process but it will get better and talk to your Dr. And tell him what your going through! ! My Dr. Said it was all on them! To not feel guilty , like I did such a horrible thing by leaving this false cult ! It's on them alone, not you !
Indeed, unless the therapist themselves has been in a cult they would be of little use to an ex-JW. Many ex-JWs have told me that help was lacking from therapists.
That's why she wrote the book for therapists. She saw the need.
LivingNow i agee
that was a great interview its really helpfull advice from therapist on how to manage how you might feel after leaving the cult of jw.
yes!! Exactly what I have figured.
John Cedars!
Awesome!
This is something highly needed.
I left the JW organization long ago and very successfully. The strongest part in doing so was family matters. It is unbelievable how much love the JW's show you apparently before you are baptized, and while you are active, and how easily they destroy families turning them against each others when someone tries to get out or find their way out of this false cult.The JWs becomes very mean and bad against you, like they never new you before. The Watch Tower calls it tough love, but it's really "Bull Crap". The JW's organization is one of the most destructive cult I have ever been to. Also they look really bad at people that is not a Jehova Witness, and they are very selfish shearing only amongst themselves besides keeping family members away just because they are a JW. I personally spelled them completely OUT of my life, and feel a lot happier ever since. I definitely, highly recommend to any ex JW to seek a professional therapist help, because I know how difficult and how hard it is to be free of these false sects. There is a song that this famous singer Tony Braxton used to sing named "Unbrake my heart", which now I sing to all JW's "Unwash My Brain".
My regards
Thank you !!!! What a great interview ...very informative...Im going to buy one of her books ...Im glad there a lot help....and to you John you are like family to me ...Im here in Florida USA ....thank you !!!!
Great interview guys. Really enjoyed it.
One issue tho...and pls don't think this means i disliked the interview, it's just a single issue i'd like to bring up:
Bonnie says that she takes a passive position because JWs are adults and can access the information for themselves, but i think that's highly debatable. They are not really free to access the information, anymore than a JW is free to refuse/accept a blood transfusion; Is their refusal of blood really a "personal choice" that they made themselves, with the elders literally there at the hospital watching over their shoulder? The church stops them, it threatens them, they're even chastised for daring to consider it.
Remember what *Steven Hassan* was saying in your interview regarding JWs & "informed consent" when deciding to refuse a blood transfusion. They can't be defined as having "informed consent", if the church is explicitly forbidding them from reading anything that challenges their beliefs. No, JWs are not free as adults to access the information for themselves.
I must bow to Bonnie's expertise tho, perhaps her position on this has more nuance to it than could fit into the interview.
Roidroid, thank you for sharing these thoughts! It's challenging to fully explain my position in a few minutes during an interview. The principle I follow is "not to interfere and not to abandon". If a loved one is about to sacrifice their life by refusing blood, that would be an occasion to "not abandon" and to speak up to help save a life. I would do exactly what you suggest you would do. My approach is not "passive". If my sister was taking her children to a Hall where we knew there was a pedophile in attendance, I would NEVER be 'passive'. I would speak to her and hope she could 'hear' me.
You are right that JWs are not free to access information because of all the brainwashing. However, once they begin to doubt or have questions information is easily accessible. Your trying to push it on them before that would not work. Many now report that they escaped the clutches of the organization by daring to break the rules and read something on the internet.
When we present information that contradicts firmly held beliefs, it produces cognitive dissonance in the person receiving the new information. Cognitive dissonance makes humans anxious. To get rid of the discomfort of anxiety, our mind dismisses or deletes the new, contradictory information and latches back on, even more tightly, to what we already know. Then the anxiety abates and we feel comfortable and infer from that comfort that we are believing the correct thing - because it makes us feel better.
That said, no one has to follow the way I have decided to handle this situation. I admire your care and concern and hope that if you decide to make an intervention with an active JW that it works out for you both. There is never just one way to approach things. It is rarely either/or.
I really like this woman.. her books are the next on my list!
Hey Meg - thank you. I recommend you start with "The Challenge to Heal".
I really enjoyed this video, I am training to become a psycho therapist in the uk (2 years left) and will certainly be reading her books. Mother in law is a JW and tried her best to convert me with no luck. In fact I stumbled across your channel looking for info to counter her claims. Keep up the good work Lloyd .
Saw her with Chris Shelton. She brought up some interesting therapy ideas. If she comes back would love to hear further about that.
Elena Simon Thank you. You are probably refering to EMDR therapy. I wish more people were aware of how helpful it is.
Thanks for the great resources!
Thank you. You gave me Bonnie's info earlier. I have trouble sleeping and all that goes with it. I'm on disability right now. I won't be able to get any books for a while until i get my retro back pay. No monies right now. I was able to get Steve Hassan older book at the libray, that was helpful.
very good interview john this lady speaks about a lot of what I went through being an x jw and how lonly you feel coming out of a cult these type of videos are good for us x jehovah s witnesses
This is awesome! I was wondering if there were any qualified therapists to help with these issues! Thank you!
Her book is excellent! A must for ex JWs entering the real world.
Thank you Ashley!
Bonnie Zieman 😊. I purchased Lloyd's book on Amazon last night , the Kindle edition. It's fabulous and I can related to his experiences growing up as a JW. Thanks again!
I loved the answer about its not our write to interfer and wake up family member. I totaly would not want to pop my parents bubble... even thou i miss them
I've never been to the Facebook group. But your warning about *lies* makes me suspicious - coz that's the sortof thing witnesses say about apostates, they say it's all lies. Why are you talking like that.
I had a similar feeling, Matthew. That religion was my mother's life and although she never saw their promised (bogus) rewards, she would have collapsed had she learned about all their deceptions. I broke her heart by leaving, and was not going to do more damage by tearing down her treasured beliefs. That said ... I know there are many who see it differently and whose families have different dynamics that require different responses.
I started seeing a therapist in my early 20s because I was depressed (at the time I didn't realize my depression started at 10 years old). I don't think I ever mentioned that I had grown up as a JW. It wasn't until my late 20s that I realized that 50% of the reason why I was so screwed up was because I grew up in this cult. I'm happy to say I'm in a much better place mentally than I was in my youth, but I still consider myself a work in progress. Unfortunately (for them) I have close family members who are still cult members. So it still has an effect on my life.
And don't be surprised if in a few years you realise that a larger % is due to this cult.
I read 3 of her books. They were so helpful.
Hey Susan - thanks so much!
Been an EX for about 30 years but just in the last couple years have I realized it WAS A CULT. I would get upset with any reference to the religion being a cult. Even though I didn’t believe it I respected others rights and my close family all died thinking they weren’t going to die.
I read her first two books which were of great help to me. I look forward to reading her latest.
Very good advice talking and writing is truly helpful. I personally fine that the thinking for yourself outside the mind control from JW takes a while. Watching all these videos is also very helpful.. Thank you both.
Fantastic interview... She gives some really insightful advice for those who have got out and are grieving for the loss of their cherished beliefs.
However, I wouldn't agree that people should be left alone believing whatever they want. I do think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. As you do with your videos and advice, I think (aside from the threat of shunning) one should strive to help and aid those trapped on the inside to see the truth about this cult, rather than await for them to want to take that step.
I have been a witness for 30 years. It’s as if I had found out fantastical beautiful truths from scripture about god. And I did. It was from god but those who delivered it were the witnesses. So as I learned these truths I began to trust the people and their doctrines, after all I was already learning fantastical things, and that was the mistake. I let my guard down never continuing the analyzing of doctrine. That is the trap is using something good and beautiful then slyly using that as a stepping stone of confidence to the not so accurate doctrine.
Door work is not interfering with someone’s life. It’s introducing the scriptures a a way to live your life. Giving people an option that maybe they haven’t thought of. Nothing negative about helping people in their search for God. There are people who welcome this. As long as a JW keeps it brief and knows when to go, and to be considerate of busy lives
Extremely brilliant and bright beautiful lady.
Steve Lyons now i'm blushing.
@@bonniezieman3424 :)
Norway is taking action on these issues!
No more tax exemption for jws!
And other nations too!
This is the most incredible video, it's makin' me cry.
Also, Lloyd is looking quite handsome, amiright? ;) :*
John, or anyone else that can help me... an Ex JW has written a fiction book or series about "after armageddon". I can't seem to remember the name of the book and cant find a book that rings the bell for me.. Could someone share the name and author of the book? Thanks in advance
Yap....after 6 year I`m just starting to heal...now I`m starting to searching info....Yes...I wanted to build my life first....
I was born into the religion a.k.a. JW, and was blessed by God by opening my eyes to certain scriptures. The problem I have is commitment to another church or institution. I compare without even realizing it ... so afraid that I'll fall into the same trap.
Take your time with this. Wounds need to heal and our mind needs to be cleared of one set of beliefs before we embrace another ...
Kelly Mika Matt 18:20
Thank you...that is an amazing verse.
You're welcome Kelly. It has given me a lot of peace knowing that our family study meets Jesus requirements for gathering together.
I think it's important to listen to them and ask them how they feel. Maybe encourage them to write about it. They need to figure it out on their own . We can just be there to reaffirm their feelings.
Do you have a link to the book?
Great video!
Except one day they might wake up finally, after many years, and say "but why didn't you even TRY to wake me up?? I could've been out 15 years ago instead of wasting so many more years!" But yes I think it's best not to be pushy, but at least we should try, as long as we aren't angry bitter or emotional.
That may be true. But anecdotal reports from thousands make clear that the vast majority of efforts to share what we have discovered are rejected and often make them avoid or shun us even more. If we can keep a kind, compassionate attitude around them, they know they can approach us to better understand our position and answer any of their questions if they desire. If some came back and said that to me, I would kindly ask if they think they really would have been open to hearing anything I had to say. That said, if a family member gave any hint or indication that they were curious or needing help I would not 'abandon' them and would offer to supply any information they needed.
It's true that you can't push in a mind something from outside. What you can do is to wake the inside with the questions the street epistemologists ask as "How do you know what you know?".
It comes down to personal introspection within oneself. Whom do you put your trust in? Men or God. In my personal experience I believe that God lead me out of that organization, because I had concerns about many issues. When one is taught from very young to question, seek, and research other's beliefs and our own, then the spirit leads us to truth in all things. It is truth that Scripture is a double-edged sword that cuts both ways, and when we examine the Watchtower under the lens of scripture they do not pass the test.
This idea of being “awakened” is like saying I was asleep before as a JW. No! You weren’t asleep. JWs have a very good bible education. If it wasn’t for the JWs I would know my bible or God. Churches wouldn’t have taught me the bible. I’ve been out and in active for 5 years, but I’m very appreciative of having been raised as a JW and been taught the bibles morals and principles. They have given me the tools to be able to determine for myself the correctness of any church organisation.
I think the WT is like going down in a deep hole or well, they'll even sell you a rope to get down in it, but climbing out is some hard work. I had no idea I was in so deep but so glad I'm out.
Many thanks
Hope I didn't post this twice, if so sorry, pc problems :)
Thank you both, Bonnie and Lloyd for this information. The process of waking up can truly be traumatic. It was and has been for me. The thing about it in my case is that I still believe in God. Just not a charred hot dog, slaughtering, unforgiving God that TPT incessantly babbles on about. He doesn’t realize that he is on the scales and will probably wake up here on earth with the rest of us. No heavenly bliss for you TPT!
16k booooyyyy wooh!
Since I've been out as much as I've tried to show or tell others what I now know about Jehovah's witnesses organization it hasn't helped anyone in my family wake up who wasn't already in the process and what your guest said is probably true that they will probably just start to view you as an apostate for someone who is under the control of satan ...its much easier to help younger more rebellious or opened minded witnesses than older one who have invested most of there lives and who are to afraid of even thinking that they might be wrong about there beliefs ..
Many JW's suffer from depression. They are told not to get professional help but to talk to the elders who just tell them pray more and do more service etc. My daughter suffers severe depression and is so brain washed won't hear or see anything negative about the society. Her life is her only child left the JW so she thinks she and her whole family is going to die a horrible death at Armageddon. Her life is meetings, door to door service,going on JW.org and staying home alone just going out if she has to shop. They even got her to stop FB and she obeys and suffers depression. I try to get her to see a professional but of course she won't. She said she knows a lot who are depressed and if they see someone pro they give them meds.All negative is apostates she believes as that is what they pound in their heads. Apostates who want them to leave the org and die. I pray for Yahshua to get her out.
Can only imagine how painful this is for you. Wish I had a magic wand.
Yikes ! ! 😳
This sounds similar to war veterans suffering from PTSD. My dad is a Vietnam vet struggling w PTSD and he wouldn’t see any therapist unless they too was a war veteran.
Freedom of worship is why JWs are legally allowed to do door to door ministry
Human rights should be a religious issue, even more so than a government issue. If a loving God exists and created humankind, would he not be very concerned about human rights?
our government loves that type of control. they aren't going to do anything. Its up to us
Surely the first thing we should be concerned with is our continued relationship with Jehovah God? It’s not so much about leaving an organisation, it’s about our continuing of our faith in Jesus and whether or not we are able to keep on the right spiritual track. We don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not many ex JWs speak about their continued faith.
Hi Joanne,
I think many people who have left the group find themselves questioning the existence of God as well, I know that is the case with me. That is perhaps why many people who are no longer in the organization don't talk about their continued relationship with the Almighty.
@@soundofsilence1945 im here because I started therapy by chance. I poped on a drug test so I started checking the box to save my job. The therapist asked questions trying to identify my alcohol and drug issues. Ive been going to group but I know it was something else and I need to know what it is. I kept thinking buried childhood trauma but I hadn't been able to recall any. Then my wife downloaded a kindle book, her book. Ive read 5 chapters this morning and the scab has been ripped open again. I have almost every symptom she mentioned. The brain eashing, the guilt... tgat one us the toughest. My stonewalling when I feel attacked. I was in from the sge of 12 to 17. It was an an elder put the moves on me. My parents took his sidexand I rebelled. Kissed a girl that month for the first time, got drunk for the first tme, had sex for the furst time. I jumped the fence and ran full gallop. I was bottled up but the guilt, fuck! I joined the Navy, it felt like suicide and armagedon was hoing to get me. I played for years that I could live a full life until I eas 25. That was my negotiation. I 'm fucked in the head and finally know I can start healing. The faith questions on this thread, I went through that too. Athirsm, agnostism, finally full circle with the idea that we are God not God in us. Joseph Campbell who she mentioned was a good source. " God is a metaphore" Look you must remember that bing in this cult robbed you of years of transformative growth. It's ok not to know for sure. Ken Wilber wrote an anology about enlightenment. Its a mountain with many sides and hights and different views. Some see more from a higher perspective but they don't see the other side of that mountain. I just wanted to share that. Be weary of all cultish religon but don't close yourself off, you did that for years. All truths are partial so there is always an element of truth but use dicernment. Integrate and trancend your beliefs.
Boo ya!
Learn something about the blue envelopes.
Jws follow you even after you're disfelliwshipped!
She's like John Dehlin but prettier
Ahhh - too sweet, Kirkland!
OY!
What's the suicide rate for ex JWs?
JayMizzTheOne better question: what is suicide rate for df’d witnesses. Ex jws are just relieved it’s all behind them.
Don't wanna talk about it
Lovely lady. I got a few costumers for her.
It’s sounds to me like she was never really in the religion. How could one not enjoy being a special pioneer speaking to people about the scriptures. Reasoning with people about the way to search for truth
6 thumbs down from the Governing Body... except Tony Morris! He gave a thumbs up!
I strongly disagree with what this psychotherapist claimed, that it is not your business to interfere in how they believe. She is turning a blind eye to the continued child abuse, which allows it to continues; which makes her an accomplice.
I think you're putting words in her mouth. Bonnie isn't saying you can't speak out about child abuse mishandling, only that it's naive to presume that you can change other's beliefs to conform with yours.
Wow - the Watchtower is a cult..? Praise our risen Lord Jesus Christ!