Killer VOCAL CHAINS at 3 Budgets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มี.ค. 2022
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Kamryn Richard
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Spotify Kamryn - Without You
Jordan Applegate
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Band - City Movement
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Engineer: Rachel Leonard / rachleonaudio
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Which was your favorite on male, and female??
TF-39/1073/Serpent sound amazing with the both singers (beautiful voices btw). It's sound more natural to me (Maybe cause i fell less comp that C12/Shelford/Cl 1b.) Thanks for the video
The Hi
On my modest PC/Speaker system the C12/Shelford/CL1b combo does sound markedly better for both. But my #2 choice would be the 4033/ISA One/WA76 because the difference is subtle enough and the money savings could be put towards other items.
Both the mid and high end gear sounded excellent. The singers are incredible!! Thank you for sharing this video. Much ❤️ Colt!!
Female: TF-39 > 4033 > C12
Male: TF-39 > C12 > 4033
I absolutely can't stand deessing, so try and control that at source. It feels like it would be far easier to add air to the TF-39 than try and tame that wild sibilance from the C12
Hot take: If your talent’s voice doesn’t sound good at $1800, it won’t sound good at $17000!
💯
A good engineer can make u sound like Beyonce 🤣😆🤣
@@fashionlife5348 a good engineer can make the quality of your vocals sound professional on a level like Beyoncé, but he can’t make you any more catchy or interesting to listen to lol chill out
Hot take: This is not a hot take
Not a hot take 😭
The first thing I thought of was…. These two singers are amazing! I almost forgot this is a video about the mics😂
It just goes to show that there is no way there is a $10k plus quality difference. You could successfully use any of those chains for obvious great results. Quality of the singer is key.
Thats not True their is a huge difference in the Mix the Quality and things you can do before the Audio Quality is compromised
The third chain is OBVIOUSLY the best one even if you can reach better results with other gear.
this the biggest bullocks ive ever heard. the better quality the chain, the better quality the capture. just a ridiculous assertion.
Were you listening on Dollar store headphones?
Thank you! All three mics are great. The singers as well :) I think I was able to hear the cable sliding along her clothes.
C12 all day on Kamryn Ashley. Actually felt like it was the most plosive setup on both recordings though. For Jordan, I preferred the ISA One. The second setup sounded a little harsh in the high mids, and the C12 was beautiful on the top end but a bit lacking in reinforcement down the lower end.
For female voice, the more luxury chain the better. For male voice, it is same but the gap between mid budget vs high end is not big compared to female voice. Thanks for your video.
That room is the real winner lol
Haha it’s ridiculous
I haven't heard of the Telefunken copperhead tf39 so far, and I was so surprised of the crazy sound quality it gives! This mic sounds amazing: ist has a nice and warm midrange, great tube saturation, and it also sounds very smooth in the high end. Furthermore it has a great and unique look!
Amazing vocal performances from both singers holy shit they are so good, Great video as always man 🤝
i can really tell the C12 Shelford combo proves that "no need for a de-esser" on the Shelford pre. It's very open and airy, but it seems to tame harsh S sounds and smooths them out. I've been looking at the shelford for a while. I sold the Voxbox, and my Shadow Hills gama pres, and feel one of my Avalon 737's may need to be swapped out for the Shelford and this video really helped me hear what my C12 would sound like on it. Thanks for your efforts on this one. Great job.
The C12/Shelford CL 1b combination sounds slightly brighter but also noticeably airier (breathes more) than the other combinations. However, the TF-39/BAE 1073/Serpent was pretty great as well.
Love the 4033 chain on both. Big fan of AT. Also, the small differences in mic placement may have colored the results...that is the problem with multi-mic shootouts.
Wow the singers are amazing. Thanks for this video, really nice.
An MXL 990 and focusrite solo is my budget!
C12 on the female, C12 on male, The chain sounds killer. But any selection in this vid would work. The Vocal Talents of Kamryn and Jordan... Killer...
Great singers make a mixer's life easier, that's for sure. Great video as always Colt.
I think it would have been really fun to do mix and match on all these, and see what happens with the C12 on the ISA and Warm or the Warm with the 39 and BAE, but I imagine time was a factor.
this was a super fun video, very well produced! I honestly thought all the vocal chains sounded great, but it was interesting to listen to the differences between them. Next up, I would love to see a vocal chain, VS a UA vocal chain!
I used to have the exact (budget) chain showcased here. No doubt you can make records with any of these setups. I still love the Focusrite sound, even after moving up in gear and price.
Let’s gooooooo! Happy Monday, Y’all
Dude this is so sick!!!!!!
beautiful singers and studio. Plus the Vocal chain combinations work so well. #JAIMSILFJ
girl can sing!
Step1. Get great talent! Damn. Jordan out here crushing it.
Super interesting! I downloaded the files in PT, and could tell the 4033 chain definitely lacked high end clarity and openness as both Telefunken chains . I was trying to get the sounds to match with the Maag EQ air band and Gullfoss. Not quite as pure and elegant, but in the ballpark
Fantastic!
Awesome bro! Thanks!
OMGezzzz the TF-39 chain is the BEST!! NO COMPARISON AT ALL!!! the other two just sound a bit stale and "processed"....by the time you add plugins and hit the master chain they will have thinned out so much....thats why I LOVE really BIG vox to start with! AMAZING VID COLT!
That Copperhead looks amazing. I want one!
CF 12 female and TF39 on the male. None of them sounded bad, but those were the two smoothest and "best" to my ears
Great video!
Very familiar with the 4033 as my partner and I purchased Sarah McLaughlin's old 4033 from her many moons ago (she bought a U47 at that time). Odd to have it in this shootout though as it's a MDC and not LDC? As I recall, having not used it in 15 yrs, it lacks those meaty mids comparitively but indeed, it's a fine mic and they're available for very little on the used market.But for the performances, the C12 combo ALL DAY for the gal and the TF39 for the dude. Full disclosure though, I have a bias against WARM as I think most of their stuff is horribly inconsistent and well, ballz..
Nice thanks!
Try mixing in roster one of those cheap condensers, those with same body but different names 😝 😆 Zingyou, Tonor, etc.
this is awesome!
Even on good headphones I'm pretty shocked how similar these sounded. The funny thing is I feel I was meant to find this video. I'm literally in the market for a high end preamp (strongly leaning towards ISA two) And I currently have an WA76 and an Apogee Element 88. I also love Sweetwater! (wife loves the candy)
Second chain was my favorite especially for the female vocal
Awesome bro 😎 🤘
I have the Shelford and use the compressor on it to track vocals. Just as good as the tube-tech compressor. I have a friend who has tracked and mixed vocals for many famous rap artists from New York & New Jersey. In a recent conversation with him, I stated how I want to add a tube tech to my Shelford for tracking vocals. He replied, 'What for? Bro, the compressor in the Shelford is just as good as the tube-tech. I can buy/get any piece of gear I want. Do you see me with a tube-tech?" Don't fall into the type of tube-tech. Spend ya money on other things you need for your studio."
We don't consider the room they tracked in, the interface they used, or the converters they used. Any mic in that room, plugged into all that expensive gear will sound good. Do this same test in a bedroom studio that's decently treated. Example. I did a vocal shootout between a U87 and a Warm Audio 8000 at a professional studio. Both engineers could barely tell the difference between the two. The Warm Audio 8000 sounded good in that expensive vocal booth going through high-end preamps and converters. I then took the Warm Audio to a bedroom studio and to my surprise, the flaws of the mic began to show and didn't sound the way it did at the professional studio.
I'm not trying to be negative here. Many people can't afford a perfect room, high-end gear, and expensive converters. Sorry to play the advocate with this.
Honestly think this, was the only accurate comment worth reading !!
I think you cannot generalize this statement at all. I track with a Shelford into a Cl1B and I personally prefer the Cl1B over the Diode Bridge. However, if all I had was the Shelford I´d be fine, it's a versatile compressor, just a little bit slow and sluggish and not optimal for big gain reduction. I like to compress up to 5,7,or 10 db on the way in (not everybody does) and the Cl1B does that quite transparently with adding a litte fullness in the lower mid and a subtle tube texture / gloss. The diode bridge is more woody or mid forward, in a good way on certain sources, but on my voice I prefer the Cl1B.
Blessings on Blessings
Hey Colt, Thanks for the Video. I still like my old Avalon VT-737sp
How funny ... I did a Shoot-out few years back after NAMM. I now use Telefunken TF29 & Rupert NEVE "Shelford Channel". Thank you for doing this Vid for others :) George Amodei ( Thx for VINTAGE KING AUDIO here in Hollywood , Ca., to make this happen since they have lots to DEMO there).
Sometimes it’s not so much the accuracy of the sound, but the usefulness of the sound. The cheaper vocal chain is ABSOLUTELY useful!
Been on the hunt for a used TF-39… this confirms
Thank G@d that the SAME takes were used in the comparisons.
PS: I record with compression 90% of the time. It's a must, for me.
$20,000 vocal chain whoops the other for clarity & presence.
all of them very cool!!!! but the thing is...... what a dope singers and acoustic, try this in a cheap room and you gonna get a surprise.
No Universal Audio 6176? Dude…I’ve got two Shelfords and I’d still choose the 6176 for vocals. The 610 preamp is fire and the 1176 compressor in the 6176 is better than any 1176 on the market.
Wow that copperhead sounds amazing! Do you think the tf39 or tf47 would handle rock vocals better?
Amazing, Colt. Actually, at least I think, that there could be a mic with UAD Apollo, recorded through UA plugins. If you have money, Apollo is great way to save the rest of the budget, however, everything sounds different and cool
I think for me, I like the TF-39 chain on her voice the most. On Him I prefer the C12 chain. But then, I am getting over a respiratory infection so my ears are probably hearing things poorly (in studio, Event 2020 V3s via RME DAC over YT). But then my preferred vocal chain 90% of the time is a Pearlman TM-47into a Daking. "t" pre.
Having used the WA76 for a year, my guess if you pulled that out of the chain, the 4033 > ISA one would sound much better. Everytime I used the Wa76 I could hear this pointy sound in the highs. Like the tops of the frequency in the highs were jagged, like a knife that had been sharpened poorly. It's a sound I do not hear when I used a "real" 1176.
I think the lower price sounds the tiniest bit raspy, which would be awesome for some stuff ie rock/metal. The C12 chain really does sound good. You must be pretty tempted to swap them all around and watch everyone eat their words . I did like the BAE chain on male Vox best.
That's just it, it's all taste. I'd be perfectly happy with the "bottom" rig lol
I actually use a very similar chain to the mid-level, though, I think, slightly better (more efficient) for slightly less money.
I opted for the cardioid-only TF29, since it's a vocal mic, the Heritage Audio HA81 (73 pre/81 eq), and the Black Lion B172a, because why have a 76 without a 2a? It's beautiful!
The copper head was muddy in the low mids to me. The C12 combo was butter! 🧈
it would be interesting to hear how the vocals sound after mixing
do this again but all with the same mic
Hi there, thanks for great works.
All of sounds are amazing!
Favorite chain : c12, shelford, cl1b
Can I get the names of songs?
Great video colt love your content I also am a audio Engineer and I also teach mixing and recording music on TH-cam on my channel keep up the good work colt
Proof that performance is far more important than the signal chain. I thought the second chain was best, and the first cheap chain was second. The expensive chain was harsh and needs a lot of de-essing. Fantastic performance by both of the singers. You could have thrown an SM57 on both of them and I doubt most people would have known.
I definitely preferred the C 12 on her, but would happily take the C 12 or the 39 on him. But you are correct, I would be able to make all three of these chains sound incredible in a mix thanks to their voices
Maybe it's my monitors, maybe it's the settings you have dialed in, or the fact they recorded in a treated room, etc, but there is hardly any difference in these files. I feel like maybe the c12 file sounds a bit "better," but I think it's just the compressor making it sound a little more upfront and not actually sounding better. In a blind test I can hardly tell a difference and I certainly can't say that I like one more than the other even if I can spot a difference. And in a full mix I wonder if I could tell a difference or more importantly pick one that would sound best. Great video for this.
Cheapest option all day long. Sure the TF-39 or C12 sound a bit more authoritative in the low end, but I'm high passing that it all day long.
Finally!!!!
I prefer the TF-39 chain both on her and him...
in my experience it's usually easier/better to notice/look for differences in the context of a mix
Ryan chillin in the back
Did she track with compression? And what settings?
That TF 😌
Doing Gods work 🙏🙏🙏 thanks again Colt! U are the best
I love my cu29. I'm thinking about getting another flavor either the 47 or saving up for a 51. Idk what would compliment a u87 and my cu29 more
Either the 251 or the tf 11
They all sounded pretty great on my iPhone
Does this mean there's a new batch of killer demo deals now? 🙂
C12 chain on the female, hands down. Tf-39 chain for the male voice. Gave a nice sparkle to his voice.
I got a shelford 2 weeks ago and it’s just incredible. ENDLESS headroom. - but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious about the API channel strip lol.
Which API channel strip have you been eyeing? Lol
@@manuellujan5625 The one called "The channel strip" lol. Has the 512, 550A, 527 comp.
You just wasted ur money
@@zanem9022 agree to disagree.
It’s all a taste thing only way to really find out is to get it and run tests between the two, but the api definitely has a bit of bite and the neve shelford is warm and great with the high frequencies !!
C12 on female, TF39 on male, so surprise there for me :) My all round vocal chain rn is Gefell M930TS into CAMDEN 500 Pre into wes audio dione :)
C 12 on her for sure! I would happily take either the TF 39, or the C 12 on him. Depends on the context and music
That's a nice chain. I like Gefell too, an actual microphone manufacturer, founded on innovation, has a long history, in-house manufacturing and great sounding mics that get the job done. Well worth the money. "Telefunken" =: name rights bought, mics made from off-the-shelf and third party parts, comes with an unjustifiable price tag. They started out when selling a re-branded Apex mic for 1K.
C12 all day and night..both female and male....
C12 on female and TF39 on male, but the C12 was definitely a clear winner in the mic category IMO, open and forward, probably cos of the Shelford channel as well. On the male vocals the C12 did sounded a tad pushy in the mid-range which sounded uncomfortable. The TF39 was definitely much more suited to him in this context. Now I just gotta save up for the Shelford channel in a few months. =P
Awesome as always! I really like the immediacy/urgency/closeness of the TF39, especially on the female voice. There is something special in the mids that I love. 👌 I realise it's a vocal chain shootout but which part of the chain would you say is mostly responsible for this sense of immediacy? Personally, I use the SM7B or 3U Audio GZ67 into Burl B1 and LA-4A as my go to chain for vocals.
how about the reverb?
😍
They all sounded great, just different and not “better” or worse, any of the takes would have worked great on a record and was well tracked.
I would get them all so I can match a specific voice with a particular mic.
😃👍
🤘🏻😜🤘🏻
c12s were always great choice for female vocals, and in this situation it is the best clearly, but not that "ill have to sell my kidney now" kind of best... you can do more if the take is better or if you can drive the gear to the desirable sound... on male vocal i would go with the second or even 1st chain... isa is a legendary preamp, bae also, matter a fact - all this gear is great, nothing there is CHEAP... just affordable and maybe "not so soon" affordable :P
That c12 🤭😯
Really cool! So it‘s possible to record vocals with more different microphones at the same time. Didn‘t know that and still don‘t know how to do that. Can anyone explain, you probably need an audio interface with the possibility to plug in 2 microphones and record into the computer at the same time. How do I have to set up the DAW? From my words you see I‘m quite a beginner! 👍🏻👏🏻😎
They just need an audio interface with 3 or more available inputs !!
All three mic’s have their own vocal chains hence there being 3 preamps and 3 compressors
In the daw you just have to open up 3 recording tracks and set the to the inputs That the sound source is coming from
@@chrisswayz3226 Thanx for all your answers! 👍🏻💪🏻
My humble opinion listening on my home system - the move from basic to mid makes the biggest difference, then the returns diminish somehow. Of course the top-tier combo is most clear and articluated, but at the same time there is plenty of sibillance. My guess is the that "C12" reissue by "Telefunken"(USA) is a sibilant microphone and the RND pres which are cleaner and more transparent than the classic Neve 1073 is not that great match for it. I would have loved to hear a Tele 251 with 1073 (Neve, BAE, Herritage or similar) plus a LA-2A and 1176 in series. That would have been the classic vocal chain to beat! BTW the male voice sounded the best/most refined to my ears with the mid-tier, rather than the top-tier combo. My 2 cent.
Nice! The shelford channel looks like a waste if you're only going to use it for its preamp though. The 5025 makes more sense in this case, no?
The whole Shelford-Range - nice as it might appear as any Rupert-Neve-Gear - is basically a waste of money at this pricepoint, so if you care about money like every rational human being you would use a less expensive preamp anyway.
lesening in my laptop with a 20euro , bluetothh speaker , no audible difference , and this is the type of device 90% use to lesen to music
Whats the audio interface used?
Why is this of concern?
in my opionion i found the mid set up well, mid, to me it sounded a little too muddy and the breaths had more emphasis, i think that people should opt for the budget or the expenive one.
I have a WA76 chained with a WA2A
Do you think it'd be worth it sonically to upgrade the WA76 to the Wes Audio Mimas or even a UA1176?
Never used one so don't know how big of a difference it would make.
Your better off upgrading the microphone and micpre!!
@@chrisswayz3226 I have a neve 1073 and TLM49
I misread your comment but two great choices may be a distressor compressor, or tube tech cl1b
Yeah? I got the WA2A and WA76 daisy chained together and I like the sound, definitely better than plugins... but deffo want to replace the WA2A with something like the Cl1b(even though that may take a while XD) and was thinking switching the WA76 with a WesAudio Mimas.... but dunno how well it stands up to the UA76
@@GothicCoalition only one way to find out . U gotta buy it and try it .
This is a great comparison Colt, thanks for sharing. Are the compressors doing about the same amount of reduction? The C12 chain on Kamryn's vocals really brings out the warmth and airiness. it feels a little more compressed but in a very nice way.
I really don't like the 4033 on Jordan's voice, it has a honkyness to it and it also seems to pull out some of the harsher overtones on the long notes when compared with the other two. The TF39 sounds fantastic though!
For me the TF-39 on the girl and the C12 on the guy.
My observation is that none of them sound better but the more expensive the chain the less harsh that it sounds. It's like the the more expensive gear just preserves the signal better and there is less distortion. It doesn't sound better it just sounds cleaner
If you like clean (as me), get rid of any expensive tube-gear, buy a good SD-Condenser and learn how to place/use it.
Apart from this, money has absolute no impact of the sound.
TF39 chain on her, C12 chain on him. Gotta get the files to listen on my good speakers.
i would have run a budget 1073 clone instead of the isa . smooth it out and give it a little more character .
Ha. Road trip with Andrew
The no-budget chains sounded best on both to me, but if I were choosing between the other two chains I'd go with the low-budget on both. Something about the mid-range chains just sounds so harsh.
Really? How u think is mid chain harsh? To my ears they sound close but im no engineer
C12 on male vocal, copperhead on female if money was no option.....For the money-AT4033cl all day, every day!
My preferred chain is actually a SM7b, Vintech X73i, Distressor...
I liked the second chain the best... unsurprising as my usual vocal chain involves a 1073/31102/MA5 into a Splice. I was surprised about Shelford channel being the high end pick... I have one and its honestly one of the least used pieces in my studio. Great on bass, but not my favorite EQ.... top band can be very harsh on a vocal.
Any preamp offering from RNd or shelford hurts my ears everytime. Glad never bought it, plus its way too overpriced
If you’re not using it, I’ll take it for free 😉
I hear a bit of distortion (maybe someone can give me the right vocabulary) when consonants are projected (particularly with the female singer) with the AT4033 chain. It's harsh and frankly unpleasant. The TF39 has a warmth that complements the lower end of the male singer. I think the C12 worked better for the female vocals though I can't pinpoint why.
on my monitors the female voice on focusrite/warm audio has way too many harsh resonances... the work on a fabQ3 to reduce them would be soo annoying