I thank you for this channel and I appreciate the effort and good will to expose the biblical truth. I hope my tone is not polemical but constructive. My goal is an honest search for biblical truth. I apologize if my English is not good. Comment on min. 14:24 onwards: "Son of Man" and "Son of God" are not ontological descriptions of Jesus. "Son of Man" has clear Old Testament resonances and applies to human beings and in Daniel to a glorified man to whom is given "dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed" Jesus is the Son of God because he was conceived directly by God and because "Son of God" is a royal title, Jesus is the messianic King (“You are my Son, today I have begotten you” is a formula of enthronement (2 Sam 7:14), not a metaphysical statement.). Jesus is NOT a hybrid who has "inherited" human characteristics because he is "son of man" and divine characteristics because he is "son of God". Jesus is a human being, glorified after the resurrection, the Messiah, the King promised by the prophets, to whom God has given dominion and glory and a everlasting kingdom.
This dichotomy between "son of man" and "son of God" is a cause for concern for me, because it is the seed of a distorted reading of the nature of Jesus, perhaps unknowingly influenced by much trinitarian eisegesis that projects metaphysical categories on biblical expressions. I think that, in part, the problem is that our reading of the biblical titles is often contaminated by our Western cultural and theological baggage completely foreign to the biblical culture. "Son of Man" and "Son of God" are not "genetic" sources of characteristics of Jesus. Jesus is a man. "Son of Man" and "Son of God" describe, not his "genetic" heritage, but the position of Jesus as Messianic King, .
@@slm-m4m2i I think that we are substantially in agreement on this. It is clear that Jesus is Son of Man and Son of God, and that these two descriptions have very important meanings in terms of prophecy. In the Old Testament the Son of Man is the coming ruler of the world, under God, and the term Son of God is also applied to the Messiah - although the word "Messiah" itself is not the same as "Son of God". Thus in Psalm 2 Jesus, returned to the earth to rule as king, is described twice as the Son of God. The first people who met Jesus would think of this if they heard that Jesus was the Son of God. However, there is another meaning as well. In Luke 1:35 the angel tells Mary why her son will be called the Son of God: "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." This seems to be saying that the fact that Jesus had no human father is the reason that Jesus is to be called the Son of God. The words "Son of Man" are used in the Old Testament to describe the person who is to have rulership over the creation (Eg. Psalm 8:4-6); this is probably why the title is used so much for Jesus, although it is clear that Jesus was descended from human beings via Mary. When it comes to being the Son of David, there is again a physical meaning to this, which is emphasised in the Bible (eg. Acts 2:29-30; Romans 1:3). However, the important point is that David received a promise that one of his descendants would be the Messiah who would rule the Kingdom of God (2 Samuel 7:12-16). So the more important point is that the Son of David, the Son of God and the Son of Man are all names for the person who would be sent by God, ultimately to rule his kingdom, Jesus was physically the Son of David and the Son of Man and had no father other than God.
@@GospelOnlineUK Thank you so much for your reply! I fully agree with the fact that Jesus is literally the Son of God because he was conceived by God (as I also mentioned in my first comment). Jesus was a true son of Abraham, a true son of David and a true son of Mary, but generated by God in the womb of Mary and not by man. The concern that caused my comment is the fact that in some videos of this channel and in other Christadelphian sites they make an "ontological" use of the expressions "Son of God" and "Son of Man", as if the expressions "son of God" and "son of man" were equivalent to having a certain nature. And often "son of God" is opposed to "son of man" (divine vs human) in a non-biblical way, because the two expressions emphasize different aspects but are not opposed to each other. Being "Son of God" does not presuppose having a certain nature or having inherited certain ontological characteristics from God. The expression "son of God" is also applied to the people of Israel, to the angels and to the judges, therefore son of God refers to a special relationship with God that the subject who is thus defined has. Of course, "children of God" can have different types of special relationships with God, Israel is the chosen people, the angels are messengers of God and the judges perform a function that ultimately belongs to God. In the case of Jesus, the expression Son of God applies fully, not because his miraculous conception made him ontologically different from the rest of human beings, but because Jesus is the human being who during his life on earth had the closest and most intimate relationship with God. God delegated judgment in Jesus and therefore Jesus is the Son of God as a judge, and Jesus is the Messiah, the Messianic King (appointed by God heir of all things) and therefore Jesus is the Son of God in the fullest biblical (not ontological) sense. I hope it makes sense :)
@@slm-m4m2i Of course, one can inherit things in other ways than by physical descent. I inherited a small legacy from a friend of my mother's who had no surviving relatives. Jesus has inherited a name from God (Hebrews 1:4), but he doesn't have to be physically part-God to do this, any more than I needed to be a physical descendant of my benefactor to receive property from her.
@@GospelOnlineUK Watching this excellent video "Moral Imperatives of God's Atonement #3 'The Good News - God Declared to be right' Part 1" (James Mccann) on the meaning of atonement, I have come to realize that the insistence in many Christadelphian sources that Jesus was able to overcome sin because he was miraculously conceived is an "article of faith" (sorry, I don't know how to put it better), defined in clause 9 of the BASF. Except for this small point, I think the Christadelphian explanation of Christ as representative of the human race is biblical, profound and beautiful and make a lot of sense to me. Furthermore, I love the participatory aspect of the atonement, we participate, we associate ourselves with Christ in baptism and in our subsequent walk.
Jesus has a God and his God is our God. John 20:17, Rev 1:6, Rev 3:2, Rev 3:12 Jesus tells us of his God. Jesus is the firstborn of many brothers. Rom 8:29. Our elder brother.
This scripture can be applied to this commentator: 2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Nicely quoted. Notice that Jesus is not described as God, but as the image of God. The image of anything is, of course, different from the substance. The image of Caesar on the coin (Matthew 22:20,21) is not the same as Caesar; the two do not share a substance, let alone a being. This is one of the hundreds (and there are literally hundreds) of passages in the Bible which show that Jesus is not God.
The bible makes it clear that Jesus is God incarnate, as prophesized in the OT and in each of the four NT Gospels. Any commentary otherwise is blasphemy
@ John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Matthew 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 10:30 I and My Father are one.' John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
When Peter confesses who the Christ is, he doesn't say, God. What does Peter and all the Apostles actually say about the "Christ"? Mat 16:15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Mat 16:16 *Simon Peter* answered and said: *Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.* Mat 16:17 And *Jesus answering* said to him: *Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. * When reading John 1, it doesn't say God became/made flesh, it says Joh 1:14 And the *Word was made flesh* and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth. Of the word what does Christ himself say: Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. (&) Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard is not mine; but the Father's who sent me. It is extremely self evident from the scriptures the Christ is a "Son of God", but now where does Christ, nor any Apostle teach that the Christ, "is God". Its also worth noting that trinitarianism is an ancient pagan abomination, dating all the way back even to the first Babylon. Christ never taught that vile pagan trash to anyone.
I thank you for this channel and I appreciate the effort and good will to expose the biblical truth.
I hope my tone is not polemical but constructive. My goal is an honest search for biblical truth.
I apologize if my English is not good.
Comment on min. 14:24 onwards:
"Son of Man" and "Son of God" are not ontological descriptions of Jesus.
"Son of Man" has clear Old Testament resonances and applies to human beings and in Daniel to a glorified man to whom is given "dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed"
Jesus is the Son of God because he was conceived directly by God and because "Son of God" is a royal title, Jesus is the messianic King (“You are my Son, today I have begotten you” is a formula of enthronement (2 Sam 7:14), not a metaphysical statement.).
Jesus is NOT a hybrid who has "inherited" human characteristics because he is "son of man" and divine characteristics because he is "son of God".
Jesus is a human being, glorified after the resurrection, the Messiah, the King promised by the prophets, to whom God has given dominion and glory and a everlasting kingdom.
This dichotomy between "son of man" and "son of God" is a cause for concern for me, because it is the seed of a distorted reading of the nature of Jesus, perhaps unknowingly influenced by much trinitarian eisegesis that projects metaphysical categories on biblical expressions.
I think that, in part, the problem is that our reading of the biblical titles is often contaminated by our Western cultural and theological baggage completely foreign to the biblical culture.
"Son of Man" and "Son of God" are not "genetic" sources of characteristics of Jesus. Jesus is a man. "Son of Man" and "Son of God" describe, not his "genetic" heritage, but the position of Jesus as Messianic King, .
@@slm-m4m2i I think that we are substantially in agreement on this. It is clear that Jesus is Son of Man and Son of God, and that these two descriptions have very important meanings in terms of prophecy. In the Old Testament the Son of Man is the coming ruler of the world, under God, and the term Son of God is also applied to the Messiah - although the word "Messiah" itself is not the same as "Son of God".
Thus in Psalm 2 Jesus, returned to the earth to rule as king, is described twice as the Son of God. The first people who met Jesus would think of this if they heard that Jesus was the Son of God.
However, there is another meaning as well. In Luke 1:35 the angel tells Mary why her son will be called the Son of God: "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." This seems to be saying that the fact that Jesus had no human father is the reason that Jesus is to be called the Son of God.
The words "Son of Man" are used in the Old Testament to describe the person who is to have rulership over the creation (Eg. Psalm 8:4-6); this is probably why the title is used so much for Jesus, although it is clear that Jesus was descended from human beings via Mary.
When it comes to being the Son of David, there is again a physical meaning to this, which is emphasised in the Bible (eg. Acts 2:29-30; Romans 1:3). However, the important point is that David received a promise that one of his descendants would be the Messiah who would rule the Kingdom of God (2 Samuel 7:12-16).
So the more important point is that the Son of David, the Son of God and the Son of Man are all names for the person who would be sent by God, ultimately to rule his kingdom, Jesus was physically the Son of David and the Son of Man and had no father other than God.
@@GospelOnlineUK Thank you so much for your reply!
I fully agree with the fact that Jesus is literally the Son of God because he was conceived by God (as I also mentioned in my first comment). Jesus was a true son of Abraham, a true son of David and a true son of Mary, but generated by God in the womb of Mary and not by man.
The concern that caused my comment is the fact that in some videos of this channel and in other Christadelphian sites they make an "ontological" use of the expressions "Son of God" and "Son of Man", as if the expressions "son of God" and "son of man" were equivalent to having a certain nature. And often "son of God" is opposed to "son of man" (divine vs human) in a non-biblical way, because the two expressions emphasize different aspects but are not opposed to each other.
Being "Son of God" does not presuppose having a certain nature or having inherited certain ontological characteristics from God. The expression "son of God" is also applied to the people of Israel, to the angels and to the judges, therefore son of God refers to a special relationship with God that the subject who is thus defined has. Of course, "children of God" can have different types of special relationships with God, Israel is the chosen people, the angels are messengers of God and the judges perform a function that ultimately belongs to God. In the case of Jesus, the expression Son of God applies fully, not because his miraculous conception made him ontologically different from the rest of human beings, but because Jesus is the human being who during his life on earth had the closest and most intimate relationship with God. God delegated judgment in Jesus and therefore Jesus is the Son of God as a judge, and Jesus is the Messiah, the Messianic King (appointed by God heir of all things) and therefore Jesus is the Son of God in the fullest biblical (not ontological) sense.
I hope it makes sense :)
@@slm-m4m2i Of course, one can inherit things in other ways than by physical descent. I inherited a small legacy from a friend of my mother's who had no surviving relatives. Jesus has inherited a name from God (Hebrews 1:4), but he doesn't have to be physically part-God to do this, any more than I needed to be a physical descendant of my benefactor to receive property from her.
@@GospelOnlineUK
Watching this excellent video "Moral Imperatives of God's Atonement #3 'The Good News - God Declared to be right' Part 1" (James Mccann) on the meaning of atonement, I have come to realize that the insistence in many Christadelphian sources that Jesus was able to overcome sin because he was miraculously conceived is an "article of faith" (sorry, I don't know how to put it better), defined in clause 9 of the BASF.
Except for this small point, I think the Christadelphian explanation of Christ as representative of the human race is biblical, profound and beautiful and make a lot of sense to me. Furthermore, I love the participatory aspect of the atonement, we participate, we associate ourselves with Christ in baptism and in our subsequent walk.
...
John 1 : 1... ⁉️
John 17 : 5 ......⁉️
Jesus has a God and his God is our God. John 20:17, Rev 1:6, Rev 3:2, Rev 3:12 Jesus tells us of his God.
Jesus is the firstborn of many brothers. Rom 8:29. Our elder brother.
@@SonOfGodByNewBirthInChristlet us not forget John 17:3 or the mission statement of John in 20:30-31.
@@SonOfGodByNewBirthInChrist .....
I'm sorry but that does not explain or respond to the texts indicated!
@@SonOfGodByNewBirthInChrist ISAIAH 9 : 6 ..................‼❣
@@SonOfGodByNewBirthInChrist ................ Colossians 2:9 ....⁉
This scripture can be applied to this commentator:
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Nicely quoted. Notice that Jesus is not described as God, but as the image of God.
The image of anything is, of course, different from the substance. The image of Caesar on the coin (Matthew 22:20,21) is not the same as Caesar; the two do not share a substance, let alone a being. This is one of the hundreds (and there are literally hundreds) of passages in the Bible which show that Jesus is not God.
@@GospelOnlineUKyou are blinded from he truth. There’s is no debating you. You are lost for eternity.
The bible makes it clear that Jesus is God incarnate, as prophesized in the OT and in each of the four NT Gospels. Any commentary otherwise is blasphemy
I think you would have got on nicely with the holy inquisition.
@
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Matthew 1:23
"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
John 10:30
I and My Father are one.'
John 14:9
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
When Peter confesses who the Christ is, he doesn't say, God. What does Peter and all the Apostles actually say about the "Christ"?
Mat 16:15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?
Mat 16:16 *Simon Peter* answered and said: *Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.*
Mat 16:17 And *Jesus answering* said to him: *Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. *
When reading John 1, it doesn't say God became/made flesh, it says
Joh 1:14 And the *Word was made flesh* and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.
Of the word what does Christ himself say:
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.
(&)
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard is not mine; but the Father's who sent me.
It is extremely self evident from the scriptures the Christ is a "Son of God", but now where does Christ, nor any Apostle teach that the Christ, "is God". Its also worth noting that trinitarianism is an ancient pagan abomination, dating all the way back even to the first Babylon. Christ never taught that vile pagan trash to anyone.