Small Diaphragm vs Large Diaphragm Condenser - Why a Small Diaphragm is BETTER, but we don't use it
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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Ever wonder why you don't really see too many people rocking a small diaphragm condenser as their main mic? I certainly do. They pose a lot of benefits when compared to a large diaphragm condenser....but here we are all obsessed with large diaphragm condensers. Today I'll explain why a small diaphragm condenser could be better for you...and why you still probably won't but it anyways....
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Ha ha ha ha ha. This is fantastic! Thank you so much.
I gotchu
@@AudioHaze You made my day.
@@AudioHaze You definitely got me.
@@ShawnMilo HAHA I had no idea there were so many Shawns
@@AudioHaze There are dozens of us. DOZENS!
I'm listening with a subwoofer. The rumble is hellish
like an episode of StarTrek TNG with the oft-present Enterprise engines rumbling in the background
I keep complimenting you in all your videos and it may be redundant, but seriously, you’re videos are super informative. Your awesome personality helps too. Lol
Thank you so much I'm gonna cry :')
The first video that i seen thst someone really explained why mics have shock mounts, it was something tha ti never understood but i guess now it makes sense, thanks for that, living and learning
That akg 170 sdc mic sounds good . It sounds warm , clean and full which I prefer . Other mics sound to bright and sharp . For 100 dollars , you can’t beat it . I will be buying a few . Great video . Cheers
Try SE8.. It is much much better and for the same reasons..
I find your reviews actually better than the big guys. Thank you for your spectacular explanations!
Thanks for saying that! I try my best :)
@@AudioHaze you will be there in the big leagues. I’m serious. Excellent work. I’m newer into this and do podcasting. Your videos are college class material!
The AKG sounds like it would be good for recording audiobooks in a non-studio (but sound-treated) environment. Thanks for the video
Good take, I sort of though that while editing this video :)
there is a concept called "directivity" (it's also used in speakers) and it depends on the size of the capsule (it's directly associated with the wavelength of a frequency) It also depends on the rigidity of the membrane, since at lower frequencies they will appear specific vibration patterns, while a much smaller membrane behaves as a "whole" (like a "ideal piston") in practically the entire frequency range.
.
And the other big issue is the amount of noise. It's much easier to achieve low noise with a larger capsule, since the contact surface with the sound waves is greater (therefore, more movement, which translates into more output voltage (higher signal/noise ratio)). A smaller capsule may accelerate faster (better response to transients, more accurate) but has less exposed surface area, which translates to less output voltage (so, lower signal to noise ratio).
Interesting in psychological aspect that Large Diaphragm gave vocalist a better "Mic" feeling in mind. Nice video :)
Thanks! And yeah, so much of getting a good performance is psychology
I had to rewind soooo many times after getting entirely distracted by the kitten. ADHD much, lol. God, kittens rock. Another informative, entertaining and genuinely useful video from you. I keep returning to this channel time and time again. Thank you so much for the time and effort you put in x
Yeah, i see a kitten i click like.
This is FANTASTIC content. PLEASE keep the humor and knowledge going. This is GREAT!
SDMs don't get enough attention that they deserve, honestly. I own Otava mk-012 and I love it. It gets more use than my SM7B, even though I'm mostly using both just for the spoken word. And with a little EQ SDMs can sound pretty "broadcasty" too, if that's what you're after. A lot of ppl get surprised by the mic I'm using, thinking that it's either LDC or maybe a dynamic like SM7B.
And yeah, I get it, it doesn't look "professional" like SM7B does (covering half of your face in shot lol), but it actually does look nice on camera - small, unintrusive, a little bit more laid back, heck, you can even move it out of the frame if you treat your room a bit.
I've seen dozens of people, who "don't like mics right up in their faces", but still buying sm7b or rode podmic, placing it like a hand away and wondering why those don't sound good. And it's not their fault, frankly. Every video you find on "mics for content creators/streamers" gonna talk either about sm7b or podmic, it's like those are the only options available. Rarely will you find people talking even about RE20. And next to no one talks about SDCs, but those might have been the best option for a lot of content creators!
So I do really appreciate the video and bringing some attention to SDCs. Thank you, sir!
Such a good comment! A big thing I try and drive home is that there's an artificial distinction between "creator" mics and "musician" mics thats just a silly distinction mostly brought upon by the marketing campaign behind creator products, if people just knew that honestly mics shouldn't be bound by the "purpose" and more just by audio fidelity and tonal characteristics, people could find a better mic for them and also save some serious cash
Excellent video, I've watched it more than several times.
Small diaphragm condensers are misunderstood, they can do everything a LDC can and much more, but people usually stick with SDC for overheads and acoustics.
Well said!!
I love SDCs, I use them for recording singers (groups) and they work great!
2:40 you can control this with post processing, u can use a pluhin like reapers ReaFir to analyse noise and subtract it from your track. Good for thinfs like high pitched buzz from a light or something
You didn't mention the efficiency differences between the two types. Large diaphragm microphones are more efficient and therefore have less self-noise compared to small diaphragm ones.
Yes thats true, apologies for leaving that bit out. That being said, while on average SDC are louder, the self noise on many popular ones are hardly any issue, the KM184 is only 13dba
Okay. I have to say this: you have such gorgeous hair.
The Les Paul just choosing to slowly fall over killed me XD
That story speaks a lot! Makes you wonder how many other recording studios do this!
This is a great video! Informative. Entertaining. And a little nerve-racking waiting to see what the cats would knock over next. Nice job! 😄
lol we live for the rush to see what Blaire is going to knock over next haha
Excellent video.
In May 2021 when I first started my journey into the world of microphones and voiceover, my sound engineer friend and I figured an LDC would be where I would end up specifically the RodeNT1.
But after six months of renting as many different microphones as I could afford and under his guidance, my sound yoda and I, both found that wasn't the case.
We both preferred SDCs on because of the generally flatter response curve and the more accurate vocal capturing.. Then the dynamic vocal stage microphones came in second place and the next preferred type was ribbon microphones because of their natural sound and vintage sound. Had the ribbons not had a ton of unfixable noise and distortion they would have been vying for top spot, but it wasn't meant to be, i guess.
However, currently both of my Apex185b SDC pencil mics and my Senne935 dynamic vocal mic, along with a Lewitt 240 pro medium condenser mic and an ,Aston Stealth active dynamic mic in dark vintage ribbon sounding mode, are currently getting used for recording a modem radio play along with an LDC so we're kind of covering all our bases.
Regardless, all this microphone stuff is fun, and when you mentioned that your teacher would record with an LDC and a hidden SDC, I chuckled because my sound yoda said that he would record me with the SDC and the dynamic vocal mic right beside each other and not even use an LDC. So while it's not playing hide and seek, it's still using multiple mics and a somewhat a similar concept so your example made me think of it and I just wanted to share that.
Thanks for your great content and for putting up with my long-winded message.
Stay safe and stay awesome.
Gerry 🙃✌️
I find LDCs generally work quite well with fingerpicking. It's strumming with a pick where you really want the sdc, with the greater high end detail and just generally sharper response. LDCs get a bit woolly and smeary and hard to fit in a mix.
A compromise
Use a SDC with a tube mic preamp
Hahah yeah not a bad idea lol
Dude I wish you were my neighbor. We'd so be geeking out on audio and weird randomness. Love your vibe.🤜🤛 ~Sadie
Thanks dude! If only I had other audio nerds around lol
Like that time Frank Zappa recorder the London Symphony Orchestra and they used PZM microphones (an ugly black square of plastic) for the tuba section beacuse all the concert halls where taken and was only available the terrible sounding soundstage used for some movies internal shots like James Bond, so a PZM stuck on the wall behind the tubas solved a lot of problems and captured a great sound. He says musicians feel safe with big mics and fat cables ("this is gonna be cool!", like Butt-head would say) and freaked out with that unconventional mic in an unconventional position ("my tone, my precious tone!!!") and the session was very tense. All of this is in his autobiography.
Great video. I agree. Ive used a small condensor for everything even vocals with great results especially thru my dbx tube preamp. They are incedibly versatile mics.
The way I held my breath when the guitar fell over 😵💫
I'm going to give a small pencil mic a shot with our cartoon voice acting. Been using dynamics for the job for years & only just started using a large condenser (Rode NT1). Overall better, but still a bit "crunchy" with unusual vocals. See if a pencil mic handles it better!
Let us know how it goes!!
How’d it go @offplanetfilms ?
@@GekkoTechGaming The Rode NT5 is a fantastic pencil mic! Very impressed with the flat frequency & the noise floor is quite low for a pencil.
Try SE8.. I have both, and I like it much more than NT1.
@@mustafaunsoy sE8 does look like it has impressive specs. I've recently switched to a Sennheiser 416 instead & found it works great in my recording space.
Btw I forgot to mention. I actually own the AKG P170 (since April) , the TLM103 set, TLM102 set AND the Neumann U87ai. The 102 set is still on back order status, but should be here right after Thanksgiving. Plus I'm purchasing three more of each. So, just wanted to throw daddy aunt. And also I love those kittens man!
Wow!! You'll definitely have to let me know your thoughts on the three and which one you prefer, would be curious to hear
@@AudioHaze you can count on it my friend! As soon as I completed the comparison.
@@richardbailey511 Any updates?
This answers a lot of questions. I love the sound of my small diaphragm condensers where I think I should be using large diaphragm condensers. I've just been going on what I hear, though I didn't know why it worked.
Bro, it's not a little rumble...that shit vibrated my subconscious
"It's not a fair competition "- guitar falls asleep
First 15 secs got me hooked, though I clicked because of the microphones
Ah thanks so much!
"I can't do anything about the rumble" if only eqs existed.
Your voice sounds way better with the Neumann TLM 102 also the guitar sounds better. Thanks for the comparison
I'm going to place my schoeps cmc5 next to my AT4040 and see if I give a better vocal performance :)
Excellent vid! Love your channel bro.
Thanks dude!!
Why didn't you do a side A/B comparison when you played the guitar.
Feels like a perfect video, what a beautiful Gibson by the way!
Thank you!! One of my pride and joys :)
Akg is really nice. I have used it for a bunch of applications.
"nothing I can control"
The hi pass filter on your eq: "am I a joke to you??"
Thank you so much for this video. You answered many of my questions. I have been thinking about getting either a pair of Lewitt LCT 040 small diaphragm mics or one Lewitt LCT 440 Pure large diaphragm condenser. I have seen a few videos on the LCT 040 as being good for dialogue. I could position it just out of shot, similar to how many TH-camrs use their Octavo mk-012. This video was super informative. I think I might go for a pair of LCT 040s. They are inexpensive, and I could use the second of the 040 pair as a mic for a guest.
Glad I could help and happy recording with your voiceover!
The guitar drop at "it's 700 dollars..." was so dramatic XD
Hahahahha
Informative, and with a nice mood to it. This indeed seems like a nice channel.
Thanks so much dude! Glad you like the channel :)
IIRC Game Grumps use Schoeps SDC's for their main mics
Thats awesome to know thanks!
I don't think I've ever heard someone ask for a more "accurate" microphone. It's more like that's not the sound I need on this track let's try another one until I "hear" what I'm wanting. Another factor is where I have to record and what it's picking up. Microphones what would be perfect for a cello in a quiet acoustically treated studio may not work well in an apartment when capturing acoustic guitar for a track in a dense mix. Some times the "worst" mic you have is perfect to capture only what you need for that track to fit perfectly in the mix. I've been embarrassed by tracks recorded with expensive mics many times and after trying to fix it with EQ, gave up and had to record the track over with a cheap mic that worked.
Thanks for the comparison. I went from Audix F9s to a pair of Roswell Pro Audio Mini K47s and while I do love the sound of these, I do like to mix things up a bit. I've been digging the reviews on the Behringer c2s. Pretty ridiculous for a $30 mic!
this was soooo helpful thank you !!!
now the rumble is all i can hear....
Damn you sound wizard
4:00 to get to the point, luckily I move through the stupid warm up talk......you are a master of blather.
Thanks for the video 🙏
Thanks for checking it out!
I've watched a lot of your videos and narrowed my choice down but still am pretty confused.
In summary: SDC mics are good for most things and often overlooked and the SM57 is good for everything and the industry standard.
What should we look at when deciding between these?
For the record, I'm considering the t.bone MB75 (SM57 knock off by thomann) or the t.bone EM700.
That's true ! Vision affects psychology.
I would be curious to hear how a SM57 compares to a small diaphragm condenser pencil mic.
Liked for that "How rude"
Maybe I'm tone-deaf, but...i was listening to the acoustic comparison on my mixing headphones with my eyes closed. I honestly didn't hear any outlandish difference between the two. I guess there is something of a stigma toward minimalistic looking microphones. Pretty crazy, great video bud!!!
For sure! I heard a bit of a difference but it’s not a huge one, I think it’s more noticeable on the voice over. And thank you my friend!
As an unrelated Shawn, thank you for kitten time
HAHA you're welcome :))
Holy shit, the sdc sounds so much better in the acoustic guitar test
I totally believe what you said but I thought other reasons we didn't use SDC's as much is because they're noisier (ok technically "harder to make less noisy") than LDC's and and they clip out at quieter volumes (ok "lower sound pressure" or whatever the technical term is)
As the diameter of the condenser microphone reduces upper frequency cut off increases and sensitivity decreases
Can self noise be a reason to prefer LDCs ? It's usually higher for SDCs which are also less sensitive.
About the only inherent advantage of LDC. Sensitivity is a non issue, as it will always be better than sm7b and look at people drooling over it.
yeah I'm not super well versed in average self noise of SDC's but from the ones I used , self noise has never been an issue at all
"This is not a fair comparison"
me hearing through my 50 cent earbuds just like most of the people: what r you talking about?
Well, I'll rewatch later at home
Hahaha fair enough
2:40 Oh, that's bad, considering the 50 cent earbuds, I can clearly hear the rumble
@@Angelo-vb6dg yeah during the recording I had a few choose words that I cut out lol
Been using a SDC from the beginning of my recording career. I started with an SM58 for everything then moved to film work where I had a Sennheiser me64 which i used on everything. When I bought my first LDC it was a cheap Samson CL2 they don't make them anymore. Bit it sounded awful compared to my 2 previous mics sm58 and Sennheiser me64. So I spent some more on a RODE k2 this one was 700$ and had an audio interface as is common with valve mics. It sounded good and impressive but I missed the SDC I was so used to know. So sold the rode k2 and splashed the cash on a Sennheiser MKH 416.
Now I got the feel of a u87 level sound. With good recording manners I don't feel I need to upgrade ever.
Very good article 👍
Nice! I would love to try the 416 one day :) appreciate you taking the time to comment
I guess people just don't like smaller mics in general. Many people prefer using a Shure SM7B or Electro-Voice RE20 as it makes them feel important. However, the SM57 has a similar enough sound compared to the SM7B with less gain but it doesn't look as nice to most people.
Indeed! I've been saying this for quite a while :)
It’s ironic cause small diaphragms are more practical.
@@ThisHandleIsInteresting I want to try a small diaphragm condenser in the future for the lols. I'm not a content creator (yet? idk) but I use a Shure SM58 with a UMC22 interface in Discord calls. A $100 SDC might be fun to play around with.
@@AudioHaze I watched both your videos on the SM57 and this one. How would you compare the Shure sm57 to the AKG P170? To my ears the latter sounds better, but not sure if you agree after using both? Moreover, what type of audio interface would you recommend that would match the price point of the mics? I'm planning on recording talking head videos in an untreated room (sounds familiar ;-) ).
What an ignorantly foolish thing to say… The two mics aren’t similar in sound at all. Sounds like you’re projecting your own issues regarding size or something?
Is that the AKG P170? I own that mic and have used it for indoor dialogue in a pinch.
Was anyone else yelling at your screen, "your guitar is falling!"? I tried to tell you bro.
Hahaha the *drama*
To be fair, a very basic use of a vocal EQ (which amounts to about 10 minutes of a ONE TIME set-up that you can save as a template for future videos, and a 2-3 second processing time per 10 minute youtube video) would take care of that heater noise. You may even be able to just gate it out, and replace it with "room noise" you record when the heater is off, if you don't want your audio to have that hollow "no room noise" feel.
Thank you!
Couldn't you just eq the rumbles?
There are so many background occurrences in this video lol
Saw you getting the 102 on ig, he’s going big boy mic bois
Hahaha did you see I did a poll for what mic I should buy next, should have never put it as an option it was so much more expensive than the other choices lol
@@AudioHaze may or maynot have participated in you spending a grand O_o
Lately I've been recording songs with a Sanken CS-3e shotgun that I normally use for video and it sounds fantastic -- if a bit "smaller" then some of my other studio mics. I don't know if that makes any sense.
Congratulations on the great video you made!
Could you do a video review of the AKG p170?
Furthermore, I'm looking to buy a condenser microphone for general use (voiceover, acoustic guitar, indoor dialog...), which do you recommend: large or small diaphragm condenser? The AKG p170 is good for that?
Would be down! I could look into that for sometime in January :) and yes the p170 would be great for that! I think it really depends on what you want out of your sound though for LCD vs SDC, hows the room you're working in?
@@AudioHaze Thanks for answering! The room that I work does not have a good acoustic treatment. However, this room presents a lot of furniture which reduces the sound reflections.
well done!
Where was the audio segment when you were playing your guitar? I was looking forward to hearing the difference, & I didn't hear you playing your guitar with the small diaphragm mic!
Thanks
Funny enough, I never gave this a conscious thought, even though this perfectly matches my experiences with microphones of varying diaphragm sizes. I think this might be the reason, why my favorite sound of all the condensers, not just the big diaphragm ones isn‘t the RØDE NT1, but the Sennheiser MKH 416 P48. Would you say the same for big diaphragm dynamic microphones, vs smaller capsules? Because It also matches my experience with the varying Shure dynamic microphones. The SM7B, while sounding super smooth has a low end to it, that doesn’t sound natural to me. Pleasant, Yes, but not natural. This is why I - in the end - never went for it and instead - after testing the Super Cheap Behringer BA85A, which blew me away for its price - went for the Shure Beta58A, which became my favorite microphone. I personally think this is more likely to be a coincidence, because dynamic capsules are built much more robustly.
Seems like you follow sound quality much more than the average producer, I can't even say I do that. If I find myself particularly fascinated with the look and feel of a piece of gear, I'm more likely to use it regardless of if I think it "sounds better" sometimes. Sort of ashamed to admit that, but I feel the majority of us fall under the category. We all like the shiny stuff :) admirable that you look more objectively!
Great video!
HEYYYYY my friend, youre totally right cause i made ths experience between a Audiotechnica AT 2020 and a little microphone Takstar at 19 dollars and the TAkstar is 10 times more accurate in everything like the low frequency bass frequency, in the directive of the notes ......you just can sing 10 times better...its tottally made when you think about it cause i just understand that i have to sell all my big microphon and buy others small-diaphragm microphones, they are cheaper, smaller and there are more easy to store and transport, we have everything to gain, it's totally crazy this story
It wasn't the Neumann the star of the video, but the kitten.
Am I the only one who audibly gasped at the sight of that Les Paul starting to fall at 0:09?
I think the large diaphragm mic picks easier the source because it's larger so it's less focused. I think it's the main reason why we use them more often. And not because of the Warm. Meaning you have to use a better mic technic to use a small diaphragm mic. The smaller the diaphragm is, more the placement gets important.
SDCs tend to actually have more even polar patterns across frequency so I don't think this is really true. Even though the capsule is smaller it's still picking up almost the same lobe of information and in fact doing it more uniform.
@@CandleManAcoustics Just copy this in youtube search "Small Diaphragm Condenser vs. Large | Shure"
mind opening video.....what about diaphragm thickness or thiness
Good question! Wouldn't want to give the wrong answer, so I would have to read up a little more :)
Actually, I have found that my voice sounds the most like me through a ribbon.
I'm listening on airpods and that thumping sound in the background is ridiculously loud.
Well that was fascinating
Thanks!
That rumble was absolute torture to my ears D:
Gud stuff. I always enjoy your channel
Thank you my friend!
@@AudioHaze my thanks to you as well. Talk soon and keep 'em coming....
Goddang that mid range on the tlm 102 on speech and vocals really irks me! Sounds so incredibly unnatural, I can confirm this because I own one lol. I much preferred when you were speaking through that AKG.
Interesting! Its not the midrange of the TLM 102 that irks me, but there are definitely a number of things that do, more to come in my review soon ;)
Simply amazing!
You’re helping me to save a lot money 😊
Thank you so much 🙏
How many of you watched in semi-horror as that gold top almost crashed into the Taylor in the background? :-)
They've both taken worse beatings ;)
Takeaways from this video:
kittens are cute
your shockmount is more important than your mic
Those are some quality conclusions gotta say
So should I buy the CC8 or OC818 (for acoustic guitar and vocals and stereo recordings)?
I recently bought a TLM102 thinking that it would be a great upgrade from my Audio Technica AT2020, only to find out that TLM 102 was catching and accentuating the parts of my vocal range that are hard to tame. I am a rapper with aggressive style of delivering and TLM is just too sensitive for that.
Conclusion: The best mic is what works best for you.
Nice! I actually recently did a review of the mic, it sounds wonderful but its a bit sensitive :) AT2020 is sick for rap and spoken word though
Bro how is the Shure PGA81
I’m looking for church choir. Please advise. Thanks
I can't tell the difference between the two microphones
0:11 My heart stopped
Its suffered worse believe me lol
I got akg p170 a while back and even though I record my acoustic at night there's so much of constant background noise it captures. My room is not treated and I just put it on the table while recording coz I don't have a mic stand yet, do u think either one of them could be the reason?
The table certainly could be interfering, its not ideal, although I don't think its causing ay reflections, the lack of room treatment most certainly will though. Maybe start with a mic stand and some basic easy treat (I'm talking like hanging a blanket from a coat rack or something if you can't afford much), you'll see some big improvements!
I like the kitten. :)
Spider shock mount is major key hehe 😁👌
For sure!!
Are sdc better at room rejection vs ldc?
Kitty made me like this vid 🤣🤩
Good, glad she had an influence :)