The Pros Cons of Single-Edged Swords vs. Double-Edged
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2021
- There are countless ways to shape a blade, and throughout history different cultures have favored various designs from one time period to another. This is an attempt to sum up the main advantages and disadvantages of single and double edged blades, while keeping in mind the enormous variety of options that bladesmiths had to optimized each one for one function or another.
An in-depth discussion of what makes swords & knives cut well (sharpness / blade geometry):
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Best sign-off ever. "I know what I'm talking about, fuck you" -Skallagrim 2021
*pop
Loved it haha
hahaha had me dyin 😂
If I had any doubts, they have been dispelled. :D
He sounds like the entire internet
So conclusion, both are good. They both coexist for a reason. That makes a lot of sense, to be completely honest.
How it makes sense?
Dual wield a single edge and a double edge for (semi) maximum edginess
@@vendettagrazie5653 they both have existed alongside each other. If there was an objectively better option, it would've overtaken the other in usage. It seems they're similar enough that it comes down to preference rather than efficiency.
Nooo way omg thank you so much!
@@DS_DoggerX wow ur so smart, but for real i was just being sarcastic me
not single edged, nor double, only blunt, as all weapons should be.
This post was made by the stick gang in colaboration with the mace group
Blunt weapons are op tough
Single edged weapons are still double sided my single-minded crack not cut cousin
No weapons. Go back to fists.
Back in my day all we had to fight were sticks and a rock, and we had to share the rock with the entire platoon!
No fist, only feet.
This is why we have two hands.
One in each hand = no headache.
If you are skilled enough, one more in the mouth.
@@samuraijackoff5354 dude, don’t forget our feet, so obvious.
And hold it with your elbow and knees too
you can even stick small ones in your ears and nose for extra protection
They say the old masters wielded a sword using their buttcheeks in desperate battles.
9:20 "I'm probablly going into soo much detail..."
Yeah. That's why we are here! And thank you for that!
You gotta admit, the "back up edge" argument loses a little something with a basket hilt...
Very good point
What do you mean you dont wrist flick at your enemies instead of fixing up your blade?!
@@unluckycatfish6866 amateurs! I just dodge roll when my opponent does a heavy attack so I can fix my blade with a whetstone while my opponent does his recovery animation
@@Cucur95 Monster Hunter: World in a nutshell
And there's not just straight and curved, there's also forward curving sica/falx type blades, recurve yataghan/falcata/kukri type blades, wavy flamberge blades, leaf shapes blades, etc. I'm sure someone will come along and try to say that all of those fall under straight or curved but at the very least forward curving blades deserve a category all their own
Back curving blades tend to be better slashers, whereas forward curving blades tend to be better choppers.
"Get to tha choppa!"
-- Some Austrian dude.
@@planescaped and forward curving will also tear through soft armors, if it ends with an acute tip as on the falx. Which makes the Elmslie Type 2 intriguing because it adds a straight piercing tip to a forward-curving cutting edge.
@P Ciprian that's an interesting question....I'd probably have to say it depends on the falchion/messer. Some are definitely curved and some are straight while still being single edged... hmm
@P Ciprian this holds true for many falchions and messers, but quite a few examples of both have a curved edge And curved spine. So again it depends on the individual example bc their forms can vary wildly
Hipster skall shall come around to the katana once the internet hates it!
That’s what you call character growth!
He recently bought some
@@bro4539 again. He recently (past year) bought some. Have you not gotten up to date with skalls opinions on things? Yeah there not even on the same plane as being his favorite but he doesn't hate them and still RIGHT NOW has some in his inventory.
@@enriquegarcia2790 he did say jk
I'm sure Skall could have easily made an hour-long video on the subject. Glad he kept it relatively short and to the point, lol. Every blade design is a compromise and optimized for a certain function/purpose. Ask me what sword I would prefer for different combat situations and I might give you completely different answers for each.
I actually started out with a 24 min long video (edited from an hour of footage... oof). Since I suspected that it was too long and rambly I posted it on Patreon first to get people's opinions, and then I chopped it down some more.
@@Skallagrim But did you use a single-edged or a double-edged sword to chop it down? (I would guess an axe.)
@@Skallagrim I said it elsewhere, but this video makes an excellent balance between length and depth.
for most situations i would personally choose the italian "spadone", its a excellent for skirmishes to kill/fend off multiple opponents at once, is not as heavy as the more famous greatswords or flamberges, it can also be used against spears rather effectively, its just very well balanced overall. i need to master the sword of my ancestors
In reality, very few weapons are definitively "better" than another, unless simply made out of superior material and/or technology.
In the few cases where a weapon was definitively inferior, they simply didn't last very long or were only used for ceremony or entertainment.
I mean, unless there's a big technology gap. See example: Muskets vs modern rifles.
Otherwise I certainly agree.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149You are correct, which is why I stated
"unless made out of superior material and/OR TECHNOLOGY."
@@jakeand9020 I... don't recall reading that before. But I suppose I missed it then.
its only better when youre expecting a specific result. and often times tools have a purpose, which is why most tools are ok, some are terrible, some are fucking amazing. but geometry and form alone do not make good tools its a combination of clever engineering and good materials. i think another idea that people need glued to their heads (in all honesty) is that you dont need the best tool in existence to accomplish a given task or goal. if you want a sword that is a monster at slashing, a wide blade or a curved thick blade that have blade presence are often what we see performing the best in cutting but at the same time people will interpret this message as "only wide or curved blades can cut" which is a very different mindset then alltogether.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 are you ever so slightly implying that it was edited in afterwards?
Kriegsmesser are just too beautiful to my eyes, can't resist them.
The "why not both" of katana vs. longsword
The Regenyei Kriegsmesser is probably my favourite sword profile.
@@AJKecsk I feel sad there has been no tachi vs longsword as far as i know. Katana is nerfed tachi
Damn does that sword look good.
The only thing I might add is that regions where single-edged swords are more dominant tend to involve more cavalry in combat, especially light cavalry, AFAIK.
Yeah, you're mostly correct.
Friggin Mongolia, dude. Nothing BUT single-edge stuff from there, but it's all mostly good designs. But like you said, calvary, and Mongolia is known for two things: Grill and Ghengis Khan lmao
Most asian region using single edge, actually thats eastern thing
@@aruthorcarly It is often an eastern thing, but it was also popular in Poland for example if I recall, but India had a fair mix of single and double edged blades if I recall. So I was thinking, cavalry dominant regions might have more single-edged weapons. Not 100% sure on that, but it seems plausible, and I've read a source or two that say about as much.
@@FaceD0wnDagon it would make sense. If you hit something from the saddle a thicker blade that can take the impact would be better.
@National Socialism oohhh the scary double edged knife...
About as scary as the nightmarish pistol grip 😳
I favor single edge more for a couple reasons.
1. When blocking attacks from your opponent, you can use the false "edge" or spine to block and keep your blade from dulling or taking damage.
2. Half swording becomes much less risky as you don't have to grab the blade. This also means you can use your left hand on the blade for more power or more control without much issue.
3. The spine can be a useful tool. Say you want to incapacitate someone without killing them, you can strike with the spine and only bruise instead of drawing blood.
Number 3 is a good point considering how often it was prefered to capture notable soldiers and nobles throughout the medieval period
I would like to argue against 1 & 3
1) Sure, you could block with the "false" edge / back of the blade. But... Why? And when? Surely there are ways to do it but.. when blocking with your sword, the flat side is only a 90° turn. To block with the false edge / back of a single edge sword it would still be a 180° turn. (English isn't my first language so I hope that makes any sense). So I guess before you even had the chance to block with your false edge, you'd already blocked the swing with the flat?
And on 3:
Yes (maybe) and (most likely) no. Think of it like that:
You are a noble one, in a battle that you clearly lost and you are about to be captured.
Sure, you could make a scene, be sung about in some songs, how you fought bravely and died before capture yadayadayda.. but.. you like beeing alive. And you know that you will be "sold back". And you know that you could have revenge. You know that you are worth more if you are alive.
So, why fight?
Which means also:
Why would I hit my most valuable hostage, with a metal object, potentially killing him? Hitting someone on the head with the false edge/ blunt edge is still hitting him with a" heavy" metal object. Especially on the head, that has the potential to kill people. It takes a lot of force to knock someone out and that force applied on the small cross section of a (blunt) sword edge will most likely crack a scull.
And yes, blunt weapons can be useful against armour. But not the blunt side of a sword.
@john Very true, I didn't think of all that!
@@Kremit_the_Forg As usual, the comment apologizing for non-native english is the best english in the thread
on #3 - be careful & avoid the head - the spine of a sword can hit like a mace flange. How do I know? Broken toes from being "lucky".
Take a double edged sword, use it as a single edged sword and then just flip it when one edge gets dull.
EDIT: Oh, he actually mentioned that lmao
Doesnt work with all double edges swords though.
doesnt work with double sword edges using basket hilt
Well, the edgiest sword type out there is the Kaytana, so thusfore the single edge wins. (As long as it's been folded five thousand times ofc)
I beg to differ, the edgiest sword out their is the gun-sword. It has 12-2 edges, ten of them in a magazine. You can penetrate the armor of multiple opponents with the ten edges _at a distance._
69th like.
@@fbiagent9666 I beg to differ, but according to my knowledge, Gun at the time has the accuracy of a falling leaf. You wouldn't be able to hit shit unless it's point-blank range.
And no, I can't tell if you're joking or not. Soooo...
@Gig Bay Gib Grain I'm not blind Gib Grain
@@Yayaloy9 Moment of silence that you thought a _"gun-blade"_ that has a _"12-2 edges"_ with _"tens of magazines"_ was a real weapon and considered as the _"edgiest"_ too 😂
when i was younger i would prefer double, but as i grow older i grew to like single more ( i'm working to get a messer)
As someone who loves the aesthetic of the Leaf Blade sword, could there be a video topic comparing leaf blades to regular sword blades?
One thing re: thrusting, this might be a very math-y way of looking at it, but wouldn't an asymmetric tip tend to lift up a bit while penetrating?
Like, let's simplify a single-edge falchion-like to a trapezoid (big side up). Normal force on the leading edge would be directed up and back. In a blade we can instead model as a triangle it would have one normal force up and back and one going down and back, canceling vertical pressures on the blade. The single-edged trapezoid would experience a tendency to tilt up which the user would have to resist and have its blunt edge forced into the upper surface of the wound channel, increasing friction.
If we wanna get super technical, if the point is off-center it would tend to also lift the sword up because the initial impact would have a very slight moment arm, but only by like half the depth of the blade. The problem here is that then you have to decide between the extreme tip being misaligned at the initial impact and the center of force being misaligned once the tip is in so that's complicated.
A symmetrical or spear tip is better. But if the tip is highly acute I would tend to doubt that matters.
I really doubt that matters much at all. We people are really soft and squishy. 4” of deep penetration ought to end about anyone and I’ve heard of similar things done with spoons.
@@gotzvonunentberlichingen1452 you could kinda say the same thing regarding the point that single-edged blades can theoretically be better cutters. It might be minute, but if it does make a difference then it's worth considering.
@@northropi2027, definitely.
Hey Skall, I think you put the point about steel hardness with the kriegsmesser and broadsword in twice.
The best solution seems like a decent-length false edge near the tip of a primarily single-edged, slightly curved sword
Such sabres were indeed used... were they the best? I'm not quite sure.
You of course would have to consider that in most setups like this you end up with a less narrow point on the sword, and it would probably have far less use if you need to jab the point into gaps in armor. Of course with a well armored opponent you'd want a different weapon than a sword in the first place but you get the idea.
So something close to a Khopesh?
@@axlmagnus not really no
@@rabies5179 Aaaawww...
Okay, so between 6:21 and 6:32 in the video, I gained a whole new appreciation for the subtlety involved in a sword swing. I say this because while I can see that one strike you demonstrate is noticeably more powerful and fast than the other, but looking at it over and over again the only thing I saw that was different was rotation of the sword in your hand, other than that the mechanics looked the same because I have watched that moment over and over and I cannot for the life of me see the other differences that would contribute to that. This is why I love your channel
I'm writing a character who has 2 weapons, default mode is a single sided blade in his right hand, and a double sided blade in his left
This video came just in time
Damnit! You beat me to it!
I'm writing a character that looks at swords and says "fuck that"
@@A_Shadow87 Spear/polearm protagonists all the way!
@@vanderwallstronghold8905 I write my own character for fun, you write yours buddy :)
@@A_Shadow87 Magic users. The one Supreme race.
This video has an EXCELLENT balance between length and depth for the subject. Thank you!
Not confusing at all. Informative and entertaining as usual. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
I love all of your content, but the outtakes are easily my favorite part of the video! 😆
Very cool. I've been hoping you'd cover this for some time now.
Great video. I've been watching a lot of your content over the last couple years and it's helped me write better fight scenes. Huge thank you for all you do.
You were very good at giving so much info in just 11 minutes. Also very clear. I understood everything despite not having prior information about the subject.
Thank you.
That last blooper was gold. “I know what I’m talking about, fuck you, boop!”
I don't envy you having to condense so many nuanced points into these short videos. There's ALWAYS something more to add.
As long as I can end my opponent rightly with a pommel, it doesn't matter
Hehehehehehe like the meme amirite
As long as I can come up with an original non-meme comment, it doesn't matter.
@@LazyLifeIFreak memes are what make us human
@@nassiemartinez4399 Ah yes, memes. The DNA of the soul.
Hey Orcus can i have your wand?
Skall: "Are you single, or double?"
Me: "Yes."
Thank you for making this very entertaining, yet informative and short Skall :)
Thanks so much for going into (complex) detail! This is something I have always wondered about but do not have the resources to test myself.
I absolutely love the bloopers thank you Skal
Thanks for adding the "blooper" reel at the end. I liked the video as well
This was a fantastic video. Thank you Skal!
The other day I was watching one of your videos and was wondering this exact thing. Good timing Skall!
Thanks for the tips old boy 🙏 Love the end-cap bloopers 🍻
i found the part about edge geometry very informative! Thanks Skall!!
"That is sort of the POINT..."
Skall, you made a pun and didn't even know it.
OR DID YOU?!
He kinda leaned into pronouncing it "SWORD of the POINT" lol
"I think that enemy *got* the POINT!"
69 likes,nice.
Great video! Looking forward to the next one
LETS GOOOO Skallagrim love the content my dude!
Been waiting for this. Nice
Good stuff! Videos like this are super helpful to me for writing fantasy.
Thank you so much for this explanation. I really appreciate it.
If you have a complex hilt with a knuckle guard or a basket, the false edge becomes very difficult to use (except for the part just behind the point). I believe this is why double edge swords almost disappear in Europe from the 17th century. Yes we still have double-edged rapiers and some claymores, but this is probably because of inertia, and possibly to make grabbing the blade more difficult.
Also, swords since the 17th century spend more time is the scabbard, are less used on armor, and are made of higher quality steel. All those make a single edge enough.
I agree, Double edge sword becomes unpopular media and meant commoner use that one edge sword mostly than castle
that was a excellent way to put the blade geometry this way
Hey skall. Love the work you do. When you get the chance and the money, I would really like to see one of the apoc swords reviewed.
Thanks a lot for the great uploads! You cover everything i get curious about after watching middle earth movies / playing crpgs like baldurs gate.
Very nice work.
Interesting video! I never would have thought of blade damage and simply flipping the blade to the other sharp edge.
thank you for this explanation. You def helped educate me
Man, I love this channel
A short break from assignments. And man did I miss these videos.
Blooper reel again! Excellent!
Come for the innuendos, stay for the level headed+ well balanced discussion.
Hey Skall i have a serious question. Is there a difference in fighting technique if your oponent is left handed for example?
Because in MMA you have to fight differently against someone that fights in the southpaw stance.
I wonder if that applies to sword and shield fights as well. Im sure it does but well, maybe that would make for a good video in the future?
Cheers mate
Absolutely. Historically orthodox boxers have been very weary about fighting southpaws because of the angels of the attacks of the southpaws that are completely unusual to orthodox fighters, this gives them an inherent advantage especially considering there rarity, of course the disadvantage to the style is that southpaws very often lead in attacks with there china which makes them very susceptible to taking hits to the face more often than not. So yea there is a huge difference.
I'd think there would have to be. You mentioned sword and shields, and that would be reversed, the lefties sword arm would be on your sword arm side when facing you, not the shield side like you'd be used to... I image that would freak someone out pretty badly. Would be an interesting vid.
Something that might be relevant is they used to train left handed people to just use their right hand instead in some places, like up until fairly recently here in the US. No idea if that was a thing when everyone was sword fighting, though, but it might have made left hand fighters even less common, at least in places that did that.... if they did that at all.
@@pete3011 Training left handers to use the right hand for certain types of fighting makes sense depending on how formation based the fighting is. So Pike/Spear, Shield Wall (Literally doesn't work if not all same handed), Lance Charges, Old School musket/rifle blocks. Reason being that you need the weapons not to interfere with your partners either in combat, or for the older rifle blocks during reloading.
Now for single combats or duelist training, I could see this being sorta flipped, where they would teach people to use both hands as ambidextrously as needed for combat. The advantage of attacking someone not used to defending those angles, or being able to switch hands should you lose function of one seems pretty evident. Although I am not an expert, nor have I ever dared to look at the manuals.
In fencing it is terrifying to go vs a lefty. They are completely geared to fight orthodox fencers, while the traditional guy is usually out of his depth.
One of the strikes the lefties love to use is slipping the rapier beneath the opponent's arm and strike upward while defending with the guard's quillons. It's quick, the set up (which is actually a quick squat lol) leads to a variety of different possible angles, and hard to defend cos of the unusualness of it. Granted, if the orthodox fighter has been training specifically vs lefties, the same deal applies to him, but that condition is very rare.
I always liked dubble edged swords, but you've picked the Kriegsmesser as the one edged. And it's my patriotic duty to pick that, as a german 😉
It helps that Kriegsmesser is an awesome name for a sword too
Hearing the correct pronunciation of Principe made me smile
Awesome video overall, really shows the point that conversations over "which is better" are kind of silly, since there's almost never a clear cut winner
1:39 as a blacksmith, i don't believe that is correct (at least when the blade is not curved or slightly curved) since making a single edge requires keeping a consistently thick spine while still requiring the blacksmith to keep the spine straight which is just as much effort as making another edge if not harder.
1.2k likes 0 dislike. This is the first time I've seen such a thing. Incredible.
Man i LOVE your content!
look how much fun Eric is having in those thrust tests
Single edged swords especially the long and curved ones are a thing of beauty. I thought the katana is the best of its class until I watched your channel so many years ago and introduced me to that katana saber (Kyu Gunto) and of course, the Kriegsmesser (a superior katana from Europe made of higher quality steel)
Good video skall love them as always interesting also keep it up sword brother
That grin when he pulled out the Falchion though
Love these videos. I’d prefer a single with a thicker than normal spine to power through the thinner lighter blades. Of course it might be heavier depending on the specs and can slow you down a bit, but you could combat that granted you have good timing.
Another couples pros of a single egde could be in in close quarters as you have a safe edge to keep in your own direction and even under the right circumstances brace against...also half swording with a single edge is generally safer also can be more forceful/structure ly sound.
Thanks for the video got me thinking 🙂
The video was great and really informative but the bloopers were still the best part😂
I'd love to see a video comparing edge specific techniques as in being able to parry while supporting the blunt edge in the case of a single edged sword or strikes with the false edge for a double edged sword. That would be quite interesting to me.
Good question.
I like your analysis 👍they have good points on them. Oh here is an aside. I think you might want to try and do some sort of co-op with Shad. I think your guys content would mesh since you guys have he start of a back and forth going anyways.
So it doesn't really matter if you have a double-edged, single-edged, or edgeless sword for that matter the only thing that matters is if you can use your weapon properly.
yeah, my favorite edgeless sword is the war hammer.
I prefer seeing my target 100 yards away through a scope
you're right and you can pretty much do anything if you're angry enough specially if you have a sword
"edgeless sword"
You mean like an estoc?
there was this game i played. Exanima, where it had a mode where you just play arena manager and equip people before watching them fight it out in the arena. the game had some physics built into each weapon swing so it was fun to see how weapons interacted.
The main thing i learned though is that the best weapon with the highest chance of winning was a quarterstaff with metal weights near the ends.
a very nimble, long and heavy weapon that even a scrub can swing with and deal devastating damage.
only weakness was full plate armor, in which case a two handed warhammer beats the quarterstaff.
Can we have more bloopers please that was amazing
I guess this further illustrate the following principle: anyone proposing a simple solution to a complex problem is often a fool :)
Very helpful
11:15 That conclusion convinced me to like the video. 😂
Over 1k likes and not a single thumbs down. Impressive stuff!
One thing to note about your point on the ease of production of single edged swords is that they aren't necessarily easier/faster to grind than a double edged sword, especially historically where people weren't as focused on dead straight grind lines etc. When grinding a single edged sword, assuming the same width blade as a double edged blade, you are only able to apply half as much pressure (pounds per square inch) onto the grind stone as you are grinding twice as much surface, this really does make a huge difference to the speed at which you are able to remove material.
You had me at Thrusting Power!
Nice video.
The brown Tribble in that basket hilt still cracks me up
do you have a video on wave-designed blades like the flamberge and their pros / cons?
How you said "principe" is very good
- almost perfect italian pronunciation
If i were to choose between a double-edged and a single-edged one for my protection back in the day, even though i have no training with swords, i would go for the double-edged one. Not because i think it is more iconic in terms of medieval swords but i feel like i would be able to make so many more swings available to me. Like even if i miss a swing, lets say, i can easily swing back in the opposite direction immediately and it would still be a fatal cut if it hits, that ease of use is just not available for single-edged ones, you would have to flip the sword or twist your hands which would be less efficient in a fight.
Next time:
Single Action vs Double Action
Didn't he already do that?
@@moritamikamikara3879 Idk lol
This is the Colt Single Action Army, the greatest handgun ever made. Six bullets, more than enough to kill anything that moves.
@@qwertyMrJINX *juramentados have entered the chat*
@@panchopeanut6486 *laughs in .45 Colt*
I was hoping to hear your thoughts on more unique styles like the Flamberge or a leaf blade.
i love this channel so much lol
The drawings were really helpful
Very good pronounciation on Principe
watching the cutting on a single edge and now seeing why some people sharpened the top part of a single edge as well as it'd make it available for a lot of those off side cuts but also would help with thrusting as well.
The video that we all needed and didn’t know it
I’d like to request a video comparing the Katana and the Kriegsmesser. Im interested in seeing their cutting, slashing, stabbing and durablility side by side on the same targets. I’m a “weeb” that likes katanas because I studied traditional martial arts but after watching your videos I’ve collected various other sword types along with the education that you provide with it,Thank you.
It boils down to the style of fighting and the fighters, how they are trained.
my intuition after all this is the best configuration is the one you are most comfortable with and enjoy using the most.
Id love to see a video on primitive weapons and their effectiveness against armor.
As someone who spars on a weekly basis with a Kriegsmesser, I can say that one of the advantages of a single edged blade (or ideally a few inches of sharpened false edge at the tip) is that people don't expect you to attack with it. Most of my hand snipes come from cutting straight up from Fool's Guard with the tip, or feinting a thrust before dropping the point under hand height and cutting up with the tip of the false edge.
Thanks
My favorite outtakes ever