Ford, GM, Chrysler, and others have very similar practices. I stay because I’m older and am just a few years from retirement. I LOVE repairing motor vehicles. But dislike the pay plan. Also, most of the younger Techs come and leave. Many change careers completely. Others stay but are unhappy. This business model is unsustainable.
It's gotta be your calling I feel I did service advisor detailer lube tech and technician from the bottom up and here I am doing mobile service happy as can be.
Thank you for staying and repairing our vehicles. It’s important to have good mechanics who know what they’re doing to work on our cars. Imagine if all you senior guys left. Wow so thank you for sticking it out. ❤
Thanks for shedding light on some questionable dealership service practices. You’re very skilled. Congratulations on your move to a less stressful work environment.
after 40 years as a tech and parts guy. working at dealerships was the worst decision i have ever made in my life. now that i am free from it i actually enjoy my life again
I was a BMW dealer tech. I also left this flat rate BS and I was one of the fast guy in the shop. I now work for Dept. of National Defence as a civilian mechanic. I could not be happier.
I've been a Hyundai tech for almost 11 years and every work he speaks is true and it's sad and most of the service managers don't care about the techs it's all about there csi scores
@@BIKEMAN21 all manufacturers have warranties, all manufacturers have recalls. Regardless of what brand you think is best, tech still get shafted on warranty times. Speaking from experience
@@fogsmart a new engine that was built with hyundai's finest engineering and a bullet proof 10 yr warranty... im a skeptical : P and dont most engines last 20 years minimum... what about all the other parts? seems like a gimmick !
My GMC Dealer pays the mechanic an hourly wage, as a customer I have always felt this allows time for the mechanic to service my truck in a non rushed fashion and at the end of the week be fairly compensated. Flat rate to me seems to be a losing way for both customers and the mechanics. Nice Video. thanks !
Shops that pay mechanics flag hours, paying them based on the estimated time a job should take, in some cases, creates an environment where the Technitian could be dishonest so they can make money. Shops should give there Technitians a guarantee for 30 hours a week, but if they beat that by completing more than 30 hours, they get paid for whatever completed
Mechanics are dumb pussies and nurses are cool!"In partnership with the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), beginning in 2006 nurses brought antitrust class actions lawsuits against major health systems in Memphis, San Antonio, Albany Chicago, Detroit, and Arizona, alleging that hospital employers in each of these markets conspired to suppress nurses’ wages. The nurse-plaintiffs in the lawsuits claimed that the defendant health systems violated the Sherman Antitrust Act by reaching an express agreement on what nurses would be paid or, in the alternative, exchanging confidential wage information either directly through informal communications among compensation personnel or indirectly through third parties, such as trade associations conducting wage surveys. Plaintiffs claimed that as a result of these agreements and communication between health systems, compensation for nurses in the affected markets was below what nurses would otherwise be earning, particularly in light of the nursing shortage."
@@JasonLee-lv7tm it definitely makes them dishonest, coworker went in with a seized spark plug, Next thing you know the engine supposedly needs replaced due to low compression, coworker goes in with his gauge, proves him wrong and car is still driving
Right? I never understood this, when I was in college I was told that for the most part of you don’t get everything absolutely perfect (I’m no perfectionist) but when I’m rushed I tend to miss certain details it’s absolute bullshit
Whenever I see a video like this I always watch it to reaffirm how I feel. I’ve been in and out of the industry twice since high school and everything you said is on point. The typical dealer doesn’t offer a 40 hour guarantee and the amount they expect for free goes up every day, while warranty labor times drop. I most recently worked for Toyota until this past summer, and the stress of sitting around losing money when it’s slow or snowing is not worth it, let alone all the free diags, unfair ticket distribution, cleaning the shop etc. and then managers want to hold techs accountable anytime something goes wrong. Free diag encourages the parts cannon, plain and simple. Things break sometimes, it’s part of the job. I don’t need to be worried about if I’m going to have to pay for it, when something breaks once in a blue moon. I left and got a job in another field while getting my own shop together to have the best of both worlds.
I know this is an old video, but I do agree with you on the diagnosis part for Hyundai: spend an hour diagnosing a job to replace a component that pays 0.4 and that’s all you get
I’ve been working as a auto tech. just shy of 40 years now, I feel your pain with the cutting of hours. I was subjected to that. Also when I worked on flat rate, very frustrating when you got a feed your family extremely nerve-racking I’m not ashamed to say I had to go on two different anxiety medication‘s just to go to work and provide for my family. when you work at a flat rate, they totally got you by the balls. My grandfather was a Chrysler mechanic that retired in 1982. He worked in industry for almost 50 years. Remember him telling me how everything got messed up in the late 70s and early 80s ,, before 1980 give or take mechanics used to get 50% of labor, can you imagine that now,!! And there was no customer pay or warranty paid. It was all the same and I remember him telling me that’s what destroyed being a mechanic in the automotive industry and working at a dealer. Now I work for a fleet company that does pay very well gives a good benefits. You can actually take the time and learn something and get the job done right. Not that I didn’t do the job right working on flat rate we always had a saying. There’s a right way of doing things then there’s the flat rate of doing things then there’s the wrong way of doing things. I simply had to what I had to do put dinner on the table for your family. Ibut fleet is definitely the way to go the industry to seem to of flip-flopped 20 years ago you would make more money to dealer and less at fleet now it switched the other way around which I find kind of weird and fascinating at the same time. If you want a career as a mechanic technician however you want to put it. I’m a little old-school be a fleet mechanic it’ll save you a lot of headaches. Dealers are horrible.
I went through this with Chrysler in the eighties as a Jr. Technician. I got stuck fixing a lot of water leaks due to poor body construction on their vehicles. I got paid half the hours I actually spent on these cars. I went independent until I finally left the business. I'm semi retired and use my mechanical skill repairing consumer level, small engines and equipment.
Spot on. I left Ford/Lincoln after 18 years. I got Nothing but warranty electrical nightmares to diagnose. Never got anything I could make time on. Always making around 36 hours. Just wasn't worth it anymore. Went to a good hourly independent shop and have zero regrets after three months.
I’m a female mechanic and I too work at A Ford/Lincoln dealership in Austin and I’m going through the same thing you are. And I wanna leave. Any other job places/ positions in the auto industry that you recommend?
I’m a ford dealer tech and I’ll probably make less than 40 hours for 2 weeks, yes TWO weeks cause 75% of the jobs I’ve got this Pay period were warranty electrical nightmares and rattles and wind noises and maybe 4 CP maintenance jobs. I’m about to get married in less than half a year and I can not support a family like this. No pay guarantee.
I work as a flat rate certified Hyundai technician currently and Friday is my last day working for Hyundai. What they expected you to do and what they pay and not even close great video
I was a VW/Audi tech back when we were replacing 1.8T engines for sludge every week. The warranty job paid anywhere from 9-14 hours depending on the car and I never met anyone who could do it anywhere close to that time. At best, you'd work for a half or whole day for free to get it done.
WOW! very well said!👏 I was a master Chevrolet tech at the same dealership for 30 years repairing transmission for the last 15 before I quit for the same reason! Only reason I stayed as long as I did is the dealership was located 5 minutes from my home. This industry needs to make changes for technician's to make a good living. With the cost of tools, time invested in training and certification's, etc. there needs to be more in it for them! What's going to happen when they can't find technician's to repair there products anymore???
In this kind of world today, there are always new technicians available. The dealership just need to put icing on top to customers to make out of this inexperienced new technicians they hired.
i was doing well in the 80's but them gm started cutting everything every year. year after year pay was going down nt up so I moved on also. I was gm/ase master my whole time wrenching. I thought things would have changed by now but maybe coming soon???
Back in 2008 - 09 when GM was bailed out I finished overhauling a unit, went to look up the time and across the board the times had all been slashed! So I took a pay cut for it! What I had been doing for yrs I had to do at much lower rate! If memory survives me right a 4L60 overhaul paid around 6 hours! and that included R&R Crazy! Yeah you could ask for ST but try to get it!
For those who don't know, Flat rate started with Henry Ford, but only body / paint issues prior to the great Depression. When the Depression was in full swing, the only way most automotive repair shops could stay in business was eliminating hourly pay, then splitting the labor 50% with the Tech. That's where the 50/50 for mechanical labor started. And largely it ended up being a win/win until the 60's when dealers started moving away from that because warranty costs (Tech pay) were too high. By the the mid 80's, most independent shops also moved away from any % split and just paid a set agreed hourly rate with the shops taking evermore of the lions share
My experience is similar to yours, I started out as a lube tech, worked my way up to being a tech just to discover just how awful this job really is, got a job working for a local municipality, more time off, better pay, better work environment.
Used to work for a Toyota dealership. They required everyone to work 7am-6pm. Felt like I lived there. An opportunity came up to work for exotic cars, I get paid hourly but it’s double my pay when I was flat rate. Do not regret it one bit. Lots of learning and I’m guaranteed money and it’s less stressful knowing if imma make ends meet. You always hear the stories that dealerships urgently need technicians but they burn their own bridges the way they treat their technicians.
I left Hyundai after 12 years, the last few years as Shop Foreman. Went back to my German roots. I’m now back at Hyundai strictly to have a familiar work environment but it’s much worse than it was when I originally left(and it was bad a few years ago). Currently going back to college for mechanical engineering degree. At my dealer we charge 100% over warranty, they will not charge Hyundai for diagnostic time. There is no hope for this field. Your video hit the nail on the head. Glad you got out.
I was doubling Alldata labor times and it still wasn’t enough to make it worth it. I don’t touch Hyundais or Kias as a result.‘I tell the client to go to the dealer and tell them to do it for book time!!
I was a Ford tech. I no longer work for a dealership either. Actually I switched trades got into electricity. I can’t think of any other trade, where, if a manufacturer or engineer messes up us workers are forced to fix it for a lower rate than we would for any other normal job our skills require. I must feel like people who stick around being a dealer tech are comparable to an abused spouse getting the crap beat out of them, the abuser sucking every ounce of blood and sweat out of them and them thinking oh he will change one day. 😅
That’s exactly how it feels. I actually considered getting into the local electrician union. I just can’t afford the pay cut of being an apprentice for 5 years. It sucks because I actually really enjoy working on cars but the pay and benefits are almost not worth it at this point.
This is exactly why I quit Toyota. I went through toyota’s T-Ten class at my community college for 2 years and because toyota certified and A1-A8 certified. I worked as a lube tech at just $10 an hour. I seen how much techs made and all the headaches they went through and I left while I could. The cars, and technology has changed but flat rate has not. It’s all about greedy corporations not wanting to pay
Same situation Started at Toyota Got all 8 ases Still on lube line making 12$ an hour Saw that guys who have been there for 12 years only making 25$ an hour Left went to fleet and started at what the “masters” at Toyota where making an hour no flat rate garbage no warranty no recalls
@@zues2013 This^ this is exactly what I went through man. The top master techs that were there were making $25 an hour MAX! Like that’s crazy man. I left automotive all together because my back and joints were hurting like crazy! Luckily now I make fender liners and dashes for manufactures but it pays way more.
current t-ten student here just got my A6 and finished my first semester…. any advice? should i pursue get what i can out of toyota and dip when i’ve learned it all?
I am in Canada. I relate to everything you said. I just retired from working in 3 different GM shops over my 34 year career as a flat rate warranty tech. It is a everyman for himself job and a mostly thankless environment tbh. Always having to retool out of pocket or take more and more training to do the warranty work the pays less and less year after year as they chop warranty times. Glad I am out now, time to sell some tools I will never use again and time to live with my 2 bad shoulders and damaged neck-cervical spine. I am the last of 4 licenced auto mechanics in my immediate family. My father and two of his brothers and myself. End of an era.
One problem with unionizing the auto repair business is the shade tree, non union guys. Who will stop them? They can work for less, they can buy parts at discount prices, and many don't even pay taxes.
@@rollydoucet8909 It depends on what is meant by "shade tree guy". An unqualified weekend warrior grease monkey is one thing but a serious and skilled independent with specialized focus (domestic, Japanese, German, etc) with a local reputation to protect is another, esp in this age of Google Reviews and Yelp. And the indies do compete with one another, also, not just the dealerships. I'm not in the auto service business but I am a consumer and I find this thread with the various comments fascinating to read.
@@jgknudtson When I say "shade tree' mechanics, I'm not referring to the well-equipped, well-run, privately owned small shops. Many small shops are clients of ours, who take advantage of our machine shop. We're a full-service biz, complete with automotive machine shop services. We started out in a service station in 1969, and small, independent shops are the major part of the walk-in trade.
I've been in the business over twenty years. I started out working at a Auto Parts store, then a Tire shop. Moved on to the dealership world around 2004. Work at a Toyota dealer making $13hr, barely hit 40hrs a week. That was when business was booming. I left in 2006. Went to a Jaguar and Land rover dealer and never looked back. Fifteen years later things have changed a lot. I was nervous about that move many years ago, but i'm glad I did it. Now as far as flat rate goes. With all these EV's hitting the market. Flat rate will not survive. There is now way it can. It will be a ton of diagnosis and next to no maintenance.
EV's are not doing well, numbers are not selling, people dont want a car that catchs on fire and cant be put out, and that the battery replacement costs as much as the car did new. The truth about them is becoming evident and people just don't want the hassle of it
I hear ya my guy. Been with Hyundai for 15 years now and the writing seems to be on the wall. Last year I did 83 engines under warranty. My local Ford dealer as a whole didn’t even do that many.
I left Mercedes-Benz after 15 years for the same reason. Year after year making less hours or having to work more hours to make the same amount. Now I'm in a salary job and so much less stress
I have watched "several" other mechanics channels vids that state the SAME , happening all over .... Mainly at "stealerships" that they themselves have worked for ..... I think it is BAD BUSINESS to be doing that to the techs that are GOOD, LOYAL , professionals !!!! SADLY, ... "GREED" has taken over most businesses these days.... And sadly it is us (the consumers), that suffer the most ... BECAUSE when mechanics/techs are NOT paid "fairly" for their work, most will tend to "rush" through a repair, or take shortcuts, out of necessity for them to EARN A DECENT pay .... and in some cases NOT perform a quality repair on the customer's vehicle .....
My grandfathers 2015 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6 underwent a timing chain tensioner replacement and VVT gear replacement under a TSB for timing chain chatter on cold start. It was just barely under warranty, super close to 100,000 miles and they honored it. After watching this I feel bad for the poor tech who had to do the job, seeing how bad your labor times are for warranty. I work at a Toyota dealership. Recently, we've had some good techs leave. One of them even became a service advisor. I know a couple more who are planning to leave or thinking about leaving.
KIA shits on the "second" owner, for sure. I have a 3.3 with timing chain rattle and complained about it at 59k miles and the service guy basically told me to get screwed. I bought the car at 7k miles, but as second owner, kiss that 100k mile warranty goodbye.
my buddy worked as a tech for 20 plus years and now approaching age 50. He became an advisor. And as an immigrant the other techs always talked shit to him.
Feel you bro. I’m a trucker and the company I work for pays for the route and not by the hour anymore. I still make out good but the older guys that do a good job work more hours than me for the same pay. There was a bunch of drivers working 55-60 hours a week when the job could have been done in 40. Ruined it for everyone else. Now that it’s by the route, the guys that used to sleep on the side of the road for hours everyday now rush around the yard and at the deliveries like the world is coming to an end.
I agree with all of you, every repair industry needs quality technicians, yet they want to cut the technicians throat when the garbage that their engineers designed start failing ? , they need to either start designing better quality products and/or start paying the people who who have to correct their mistakes fairly!!! As a technician if you have a comeback you have to eat it, they should have to do the same! I don't know who allegedly does their time studies but I know they are a joke, if you're going to warranty a vehicle for 200k miles, the manufacturer should be made to run 4 off those under extreme real world conditions to 200k miles, then have 4 different mid skill level technicians perform the time studies! And do them in real time, not starting and stopping the stop watch every time a wrench is picked up and set down, if they expect a line technician to deal with rust,rot and corrosion while doing a warranty repair then the warranty time should compensate for that!! The technician didn't design or create your problems, but you expect them to make it right , so if the manufacturers want to keep producing and selling vehicles, then you need to pay the people who fix your mistakes FAIRLY!!!!!
I was flat rate for Toyota for 33 years. Went to the top as a tech. All schools all certs. I never saw a time study video EVER! They pull those times out of thin air. Remember they're under no obligation to be fair to the techs. Without Union representation techs have absolutely no power against those who pay them. This is why I got a State job too.
Also too if you complain about poor pay suddenly you're not a team player with a bad attitude and you could get starved out of the dealer by suddenly not getting any customer pay work. Only warranty for you!!
BMW Group is another shit they cut down on time dealership are hungry for more money technicians are strangled to death by these conditions the this industry is messed up
Good for you, taking a stand & moving forward in your life. I can never understand how all these shops don’t supply the bulk of the tools needed to do the work on these cars. Sure if there’s a special tool to make your life easier, you buy it, but the main bulk should be supplied by the business.
I believe in most other countries that the employer provides techs with needed tools. I worked in USA in auto collision field and an italian coworker was amazed at the idea of getting on the tool truck and dropping thousands of dollars there.
For sure any "specialty tools" i.e. manufacturer required tools should be supplied by the dealership. Standard tools to be supplied by the technician. Techs should not have to own overinflated manufacturer tooling they may use for 10 jobs total. Just look at the prices on those GM tools kicensed to one company, what a rort!
Good video. All valid points. It's not just the dealership side the aftermarket side is seeing the same thing. Many people are getting out of the industry. I agree Flat Rate is antiquated at this point given the complexity of these newer cars. I also think Flat Rate's days are becoming numbered. The longer that shops cant find quality guys they will get that they have to make a change.
I had an issue with a Ford service rep at my local dealer and their manager called me... I was SHOCKED to hear the techs work on flat rate... to me, this is an incentive for a tech to rush a job but also, I immediately saw this as potentially unfair to the techs themselves as well... the manager confirmed to me 100% what you said in this video; he loses all his good techs eventually to government jobs and private shops. I have one last service remaining on my premium service plan and from that day forward, my neighbor who owns a trusted local auto shop will get my business.
This is why I WILL NEVER EVER buy another Hyundai/Kia. I had 2015 Sonata with engine issues. I was so glad that I leased it. If we don't buy their products, they will learn!
I worked for a Kia dealership for 8 months at $13 an hour flat rate and they did not honor ASE certifications nor any outside certifications at all! You had to start from the very bottom even if you were a Master tech. They want you to get certified "through Kia"...I left and went to Nissan much better.
Never worked flat rate, but I know many that have. It used to have hard times, but like you said, it worked. Problem is, these companies are trying to put more money in their pockets. What they don’t realize is it’s great short term, but they’re gonna hate it when they got no one to fix their vehicles. I know one guy that worked for GMC. There was a recall (can’t remember for what). He said he had to: get the ticket, locate the vehicle, pull it in, get it ready, do the recall, and then release it. His pay? .17 hours. Yes, that decimal is intentional.
AS a Dual Master ASE Master Tech, I left the industry. An example is a warranty seat cover replacement for a F150. Flat Rate is 0.6 hr but takes 2.5 hr. The seat needs removed and disassembled to install a new cover along with 50 hog rings.
I switched to fleet work in the 12 volt industry. Very similar situation, was in a commission environment but then they started reducing rates or the competition would race to zero. Need to always be ready and willing to change.
Flat rate, explained. Great video. Most auto dealership mechanics I know, eventually opened their own shops, because the found out they could do better working for themselves, than working for a dealer at flat rate pay scales.
Flat rate is bullshit and literally will screw a technician, especially warranty rates. We aren't "mechanics" anymore. We have so many other skills in our toolbox. There is so much technology in cars today, the diagnostics can be challenging, and they don't figure for that fairly anymore. Also, when Flat rate was first thought of for mechanics, you got 50% of the shop rate. Now it's more like 8-10% of the shops rate. Nah... my box is in storage now and until dealerships step back up and start paying for service, then they will continue to lose good techs. Myself being one of them.
The issues have been there even when I was a flat rate back in the early 1980's. I was doing 45-60 hours a week at a Chrysler dealership and they started even then to cut flat rate. At the time I retraining into aviation as a structure mechanic in the Air Force Reserves. Once I had all my aircraft certifications I applied at Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Lockheed and accepted a position at Boeing. 30 years later I retired out of Boeing. The cost are to high for a flat rate as the expectation is that we have to provide our own tools, pay for the certification training and then pay for the testing and the dealerships then pile on the BS and not back us up. It has been going on for way to many years and yet flat rate has been cut over and over again. But the French crop out of the various schools will place the next generation of mechanic right into the dealerships and turn over for the techs will be 150% per year for the future. I hate to say this but the only way for mechanics to get ahead is the independent shops and the ones in dealerships to unionize.
This. I just got my A&P in the civilian world back in December of last year. Took a job with skywest. Hourly pay and benefits are amazing. Work is fairly simple. Relatively. 8 months later I am headed to united airlines. Again hourly. Union that has your back. Plus a 50+\hr top out within 8 years and that’s always increasing to match the industry. Couldn’t be happier with my choice to leave the auto industry.
@@virenpatel9973 That is so good that you took the path you did and it is similar to mine except I worked on new aircraft and you work on in service aircraft. I am glad I took that path as it provided for my family
@@tmtheasphaltgambler3709 I work at dealership as a tech and it’s a union shop. That does not affect the fate rate warrty time that the manufacturer set. So your correct Union does not change anything
dude you are so right. t3g warranty pay was complete shit. I left the industry all together because of it. it was once a good job but has pushed all of us good techs out of the dealerships.
its same as health insurance screwing up most medical system by underpaying doctors and screwing the patients with inferior treatment. Manufacturers are screwing over the techs and their customers.
Thanks for explaining this situation to us. I don't drive a Hyundai, but if I did, I'd want you as my mechanic. I no longer use my dealership to repair or do maintenance on my car. I've found a private guy whose labor rate is less than the dealership (but it's not cheap) and he and his technicians I trust immensely. I'm glad you knew enough to change your working conditions and wish you the best working for the state. You're an asset to anybody you work for. Maybe one day you can branch out on your own.
Im a hyundai tech as well. You are 100percent correct! Now they cant find techs for the life of them. Just a bunch of kids who cant fix a car. Hyundai points stolen by management.
I'm with you we are a dying breed I could have a three hour long conversation with you or any tech the love I have for fixing cars is what is keeping me at the dealership but we are at the bottom of the totem pole warranty pay is horrible, getting parts sucks alot of us do side work just to feed our families I pray for all those struggling God bless all of you
I was at one time a semiskilled technician doing training and hoping to become a Hyundai apprentice and eventually a service technician in full. I got laid off during the early days of COVID and ended up getting a job working on forklifts. I miss my old coworkers and I do miss working on cars, but I DO NOT miss the dealership. The way it all happened turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I'm now considering starting my own mobile mechanic business on the side, then full time with it if I am successful enough. The dealer is, as you said, a sinking ship. There are too many bean counters calling the shots up and down the corporate ladder for the business model to be sustainable. Best of luck to you my man.
Engines down from 9hrs to 6.2hrs !!!!!! glad I left Hyundai in 2019 after 18 yrs. Labor studies...oh yeah that was always the case. In 2006 when Sonata came with the new 3.3L engine, techs figured out how to pull the front cover to replace leaking tensioners simply by lifting the motor on one end. Hyundai overheard this, verified it was possible and quickly dropped from 13hrs to 5 hrs iirc. Hyundai never paid techs more then .3 tenths to diag any CEL, that was always a bummer but you get used to it not knowing any better. Even when calling techline and they struggled to help you, it didnt matter. you get your .3 tenths (15min)
As a former auto assembly worker these manufacturers do practically the same thing. They simply reduce manpower,increase speed and pay less. I always wondered if so called “Lean Manufacturing” extended to dealership workers
one thing does not add up here. if the manufacturer wants to pay less for warranty repairs then why make their vehicles so time consuming and hard to repair. cars seem to be designed in such a way to make the dealership as much money as possible when the warranty expires though.
@@BIKEMAN21 The dealership probably gets their cut regardless of what the technician gets paid. Could be two different standards. I’m no expert but dealerships do have all kinds of ways to make a profit at the expense of customers and employees. Just my take on it and I could be way off
@@BIKEMAN21 dealership are franchises. So when your vehicle comes if for a warranty, there is a code (for the repair) then a flat rate time that is associated with the repair. Also the part has to be sent back and paper work attached to the repair order for reimbursement from the manufacture. If any one of those things are not in order the claim is bounced and the dealership eats it. As far as customers the flat rate time divided in half then added to the original time. So if wartty time is 1.0hr you would divide it in half (.50) then add it to the original time which give you 1.5hrs
@@jimmyg5636 yes!! Dealerships make ridiculous money and use monopolistic practices to limit competition and overcharge. Greedy bustards usually and their employees secretly hate the rich a-hole owners.
Wish you all the best. I left the dealership scene years ago for the same reason. Sad to see it is still the same with vehicles and warranties are so much better.
I forgot to add. I have owned my 2012 Civic for 9 years and 207,000 km. Total cost of repairs are: Wheel Bearing at 110,000 km - $250 Canadian Serpentine Belt Tensioner at 160,000 km - $160 Canadian Muffler Replaced at 206,000 km - $300 Canadian So, driving 207,000 km has cost me $710 Canadian in repairs. My Toyota Corolla was driven to 250,000 km and cost me a total of $400 in repairs, but it started to burn oil at 191,000 km, so I eventually got rid of it.
Amen bro. I left the business in 2008. I started in 1985. This situation is only gonna get worse. No respect for any Techs. Independent shops with flat rate are the same. Just not quite as bad as dealerships. Longer warranties ? Yep. Only makes it worse.
I’ve worked at a lot different dealerships Kia, Toyota and Mazda. Flat rate is garbage. It’s not even just warranty work, insurance jobs take forever to process too. The easy fluids, and the easy cash jobs are taken before they hit the board. Your not alone out there guys.
YT recommended this video. I generally hate cars and have no maintenance skills. I also had no idea about Flat Rate work for Technicians and I appreciate your ability to ad lib and successfully reach an audience similar to me. I'm going to appreciate my goto shop's Techs much more now. Nice work!
Kia / Hyundi cut the time for the motors because there were a bunch of hot shot techs that posted the repair on TH-cam and told the manufacturer how they did the repairs in such little time. There is always a group of people out the that ruins everything for everybody
@@toddttautomotiveequipment2871 my FSE had mentioned to me that Hyundai hired some sort of research company to figure out why they had such an exodus of techs but I already had my foot out the door at the time
@@SEsGarage it has to start with one manufacturer. It’s Industry wide right now. They are all looking to see who else is stupid enough to post a short cut video so they can cut time.
When I was a Tech I was always told to run 80% of all the time so I don’t called out for the short cuts. Warranty and customer pay all the time was 80-90%
Worked at a Chrysler dealership, when Iacocca retired they hired new top manager from a different automaker. He immediately boosted profits by cutting every 3 hour job to 2 hours with a stroke of a pen. I know many flat rate mechanics who quit because an oil change/tire "kid" made more money.
I am a flat rate tech going on 35 years now with the same import manufacturer and back in the late 80s and 90s it was a very good business to be in , more then doubled the actual time in a day and that lasted for 20 years . I am older but the changes and technology on these vehicles are advancing so much that it is impossible to understand how the vehicle communicates within itself ..When you call technical support and they tell you to swap part till you find the problem then only get paid for the failed part is hours lost for the tech and dealership ..Flat rate needs to end and a salary with bonus based on experience and training is the future I hope .
Im currently the engine guy at my dealership. Without any customer pay work i have to bust my butt to make 80 hours off of just engines.. Im about to find a completely different career. Yes $30 an hour is nice but not when you dont get paid for the work you do..
I work for a factory, and I do warranty repairs time tests. And if it takes me 3 hours for the warranty, right it up as a 1.5 to 2 hour warranty repair. They time it by vehicle on the hoist tools already laid out parts on the beanch sometime it been do on its 2nd or 3rd time one the same vehicle and its a speed run on the final timed test.
Corporate thinking and cutting those labor hrs can take off their office suits and do the job themselves, that's why I've never worked for a dealer, mobile mechanic for now then open a shop later. Crazy stuff it always bottles down to the people in the office thinking you can get paid less to do the same...
Great video. I worked as a Mechanic for 26 years and the last one was for Kia. And I can back you up and say when they dropped the labor time for those motors alot of Kia certified techs left. If i remember the Kia soul labor went from 9 hours to 5.5 hours. No one in our shop wanted to do them. our shop was small and we had 6 Techs and three if us left within 2 months. Here in California at least where i worked we also were guaranteed 40 hours. but there were alot of days or weeks where because of warranty times we could not make our 40 hours and then the Manager and GM would wonder why. You as a Hyundai tech know That make along with Kia has alot of electrical issues. Once i left i got so many offers for an Auto tech that i turned off the notifications from indeed because there is such a high demand to Mechanics, But like you said and thousands of others have is Techs are not treaded good anyone. Every year manufactures cut hours and its not fair to techs at all and they end up leaving the business or for something similar. And also one more thing. Majority of these Makes and Models of vehicles these days do not need major services for at least 90-100k and for techs that was a big money maker. so take that out and cut warranty times equal disaster. sorry its so long. I enjoyed this video.
Labor times reduce. But dealer charge for labor hours keeps increasing. Who’s making the money. Salesmen get treated better than the people keeping the brand and dealer afloat. This flat rate is bullshit. Pay hourly. New cars require experience. That experience needs to be compensated for. Dealer shouldn’t be pocketing more money for a technician who needs more time to properly diagnose a car. The technician should get that money. This is exactly why mechanics as a whole are a dying breed. Nobody wants to get taken advantage of. Pay more or lose your competent mechanics. Walk out like this guy. Don’t take shit from these dealers. Specialty shops pay more. Dealers have one goal. To make their profits go up. Where do they get most of that money? Service. Don’t let them. Walk out. They need you. You don’t need them.
I agree and under why you left. I was a expert technician for Hyundai for a few years and started on master tech classes. I left due to poor management and for the warranty times getting dropped severely on a lot of the recalls/warranty times.
I just found a TH-cam video from a Korean mechanical engineer and they tore down a Hyundai smart stream 2.5 engine. Apparently it has a huge design flaw with the pistons and piston rings allowing oil burning. As a former Hyundai technician do you think this problem will affect cars with these engines here?
I’ve been in the industry for 10 years. Spent 2 years at Hyundai, 2 years at GMC, 4 years at an independent, and now I’m 2 years into Honda. I just made the switch to flat rate a year ago, so far everything is going well. We have a very good team here and my service manager is amazing at her job and makes a relationship with all of us. As a flat rate tech, I don’t have the hopes to jump through for warranty because she handles them, as long as I have my diagnostics and documented what was performed, I get paid for what she feels is fair. We get a 35 hour guarantee, which is huge IMO. We also keep 2 techs as hourly rate, 1 is a younger tech that we use as a lube tech and helper. The other is licensed but doesn’t like flat rate, so he gets most of the poorly paid jobs (heater cores, engines, transmissions, wiring harnesses, etc. We’re in eastern Canada, so an engine/trans job on a vehicle outside of warranty can be a nightmare due to rust) and he loves it. He gets his hourly rate, and then a bonus for each RO that we try to avoid giving to a flat rate tech.
The only way I will ever work for a dealer again 1. 50% of the ticket minimum 2. Customer and Warranty time parity (Its actually the law in my state but these fools still violate it) 3. All tools must work (Tire balancers, lifts, everything better work and better be organized.) 4. If no flag flat, $52,000 minimum for entry certified techs. Entry level HVAC, Welders etc are paid more than this.
Agree i left for similar reasons but also here in south africa we were also being forced to work from 6:45 to to after 18:00 monday to friday and saturday and often sundays too from 7:0014:00 just about making target and the money was really pitiful due to the large quantity of free faults and the company keeping you there for more hours than they are paying overtime for so i decided to leave and do something else
I'm 62 and have been working on cars, trucks, and equipment since I was a little kid in my grandfather's shop. I remember mechanics coming around to hang out that worked for one dealer for like 20 - 30 years. Those days have been long gone since the 80's.. Turnover of mechanics is crazy everywhere now.
Everything he says it true spot on 💯 I’m getting ready to leave lithia Chevrolet because I’ve been a flat rate mechanic for almost a year there only making 35hrs every two weeks getting nothing but warranty and electrical diag that the other techs don’t want to touch or do I get a bone thrown to me here and there but it’s just not worth it any more.
I 110% agree with you. I worked for a Ford dealership in NJ in the mid 70s and even then, warrantee flat rate killed us. Once I had to replace a thermostat in a 75 V8 Mustang II. Absolute nightmare of a job. They were notorious for being very difficult to "burp" out all the cooling system air. Just purging all the air out could take a half hour and if you didn't do it completely, the engine could overheat & fail. They paid .6 hr to do the thermostat job (which was buried & tough in itself). I wrote up a technician's dispute of the allotted time and in the comments, I stated the reason some warrantee work was being completed sub-standard was the lack of fair time given to do it and that mechanics would "get 'em in and blow them out fast as possible". My comments were not appreciated by Ford Motor Company.
Thanks brother that explains a lot. I just liked your video and subscribed to your channel. I took my 2015 Elantra Sport 2.0L MT to dealership for crankshaft bearing issue under warranty and they did a software update and advised me to let them do a wheel alignment. I told the service manager my car is using oil and has lost power but he had nothing to say unless I have a check engine light. I change the oil every 5K miles with quality synthetic and it’s always dirty even after an oil change. Engine is making a whining noise when accelerating but that could be the clutch throughout bearing. Wonder if I would get better results from the dealership where I bought my car. Thanks and have a merry Christmas.
Not to mention being flat rate during dry spells standing there not getting paid.. and having the tool expense flat rate is a absolute joke. Should be outlawed lmao
All of the Hyundai topics he mention in the video and other people mention on the comments are TRUE and I can confirmed it. I'm a Hyundai technician at my dealership & I'm their heavy line specialist. As of April 2022 I will have 7 years in Hyundai & my dealership literally receiving vehicles from other Hyundai dealerships that can't or won't work on most likely their staffing problems. The best way to survive is to be VERY EFFICIENT in diagnosis, warranty documentation, parts quoting & actual repair(s). I got to the point where I can do a 3.3l V6 SHORT BLOCK ENGINE repair in the SAME work day from BAY-IN to BAY-OUT with all necessary parts & WITHOUT interruptions.
My brother did the same. He worked for Hyundai too. He owns his own shop now... busted his butt to do it.... he's doing well overall although it is stressful. Biggest struggle has been getting good help. He seems to have assembled a good team of guys, and he pays them pretty good because you have to try and keep them when you find them. He has plenty of stories at his former shady dealership's practices.
And on a side note, I have a great car in my 2017 Sonata Sport... but they didn't do the paint right and it just flies off the roof of the car at random. And of course it's not "under warranty". That ticks me off. I've manage to keep it from getting real bad using some touchup paint to try and keep it from sheeting off further. But I've seen some going down the road with half their paint peeled off. That's just crazy to me.
Yeah I work at a Honda and its ok but im not flat rate, many many good techs have left because of the stupid times. The other reason flat rate is bad is come backs. Crap just the the other day I helped a tech balance his tires. I placed the tires on the car. He never gunned up. wheels almost fell off. Rushing guys isn’t good.
I have a Corvette. It's a decade old and has over 100Kmi on it. I take it to a local dealership because the one guy there, Angel, is great and knows it like the back of his hand. Last time it was there, I wanted the coil packs swapped out. The advisor couldn't find the book hours for that. I said, "just charge me for how ever long it actually takes him..." At a $156/Hr rate, I figured that was fair. Especially with old, cooked harnesses & connectors. They did finally find the book hours and they charged me that. They ain't cheap, but, so far, the fairness and honesty have been priceless. I don't blame you for leaving under those circumstances. And I've heard of a lot of botched repair jobs done at the dealerships on warranty repairs. Sounds like the manufacturers may have and impending disaster on their hands. A bad rep spreads geometrically throughout a population....
I was a line mechanic at a Chevrolet dealership and when they had 200 cars to get out to sell we were put on salary and when they had a few cars to fix we were put on flat rate. I quit.
Here in Australia there’s no flat rate employment. You get the minimum award wage or what you negotiate according to experience. You have to be fully qualified unless you are an apprentice and employed as such. The nearest thing we have to flat rate is warranty work. Hyundai and other manufacturers only pay dealers a reduced labour rate for warranty work but the times were usually just ridiculous. In a flat rate structure the amount of fuck ups and come backs must be huge just because of lack of attention to detail.
@@dangerboy1111 I was on $28 per hour plus any overtime was that plus half and under the award you get paid leave plus 17% . To be able to manage these rates employers rode you like a 2 dollar hooker to get value out if you. 35 years I was in the trade as well as being a trade teacher to apprentices.
I feel the same way in my industry also. New policies comes from above and i'm expected to run my department with less labor hour than what I actually need due to new "optimization." The company seems to wonder why managements are so hard to find at the moment when they are having record sales years with little to no incentives. Oh yes I love my job.
I use to be ASE certified haven't recertified in year's don't need to been left the dealership I work on diesel's generators etc I like my hourly pay it's very good and I get free insurance with 5 sick days and 4 weeks of vacation y'all can have that life been there done that
Unfortunately most automotive technicians in the dealer network I feel don’t know how to troubleshoot most problems. I’ve taken my vehicle to the dealership to help me diagnosis issues with my car , this was Acura , Mazda and recently Hyundai and these were newer vehicles. I’ve left the service department with no answers and had to fix the issue myself . Most of the time if you have a simple issue like brake change , oil change , large mechanical issue like a broken cv joint then the dealership will find the problem but if it’s in-depth electrical or minor mechanical yea they just don’t have the expertise . I invested about 5 hours of troubleshooting my TCU on my car to figure out an electrical problem. I feel bad for people who are the mercy of service departments . Hyundai gave me a recommended bill for maintenance for 3,000 dollars and couldn’t figure out the TCU problem. This means they stick their diagnostic scan tool and try to clear the code and if they can’t they start to look at wearable components and write up a color code chart for us to see that I need a new cabin filter. Sad
I had tge same issue at Toyota years ago. The only thing dealers are good for is getting experience in everything and make them send you to their tech school. After 6 years I took that knowledge to diesel repair which pays more and by the hour. I eventually worked on airline equipment. Hang in there and use them for your advancement.
I see this happening in all the dealerships. The techs I would trust to work on my vehicles are all gone. I have a 2017 santa fe that burns oil like mad and I'm having a hell of a time with the dealer. He has tons of cars and even engines lined up for replacements but no techs able to put them in. Doesn't help that they cut the hours to put them in. What area of the country were you working at a Hyundai dealer?
Alternatively you can buy a newer and better vehicle. Mitsubishi is pretty good though , if want to take the cheaper way out proton. Mazda makes pretty good cars as well. Isuzu if want to maybe go off road more often
Walked away from Hyundai in 2015 and stayed away from dealerships since, best decision made in the trade. Gone over to independent shops and not looked back in the uk
Honda certified Platinum Tech left in 2015 ( they dont want to play ) they charge 120-160 hr and pay techs up here 25-30... we are suppose to get 33.3% of thr door rate.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Ford, GM, Chrysler, and others have very similar practices. I stay because I’m older and am just a few years from retirement. I LOVE repairing motor vehicles. But dislike the pay plan. Also, most of the younger Techs come and leave. Many change careers completely. Others stay but are unhappy. This business model is unsustainable.
It's gotta be your calling I feel I did service advisor detailer lube tech and technician from the bottom up and here I am doing mobile service happy as can be.
Thank you for staying and repairing our vehicles. It’s important to have good mechanics who know what they’re doing to work on our cars. Imagine if all you senior guys left. Wow so thank you for sticking it out. ❤
Thanks for shedding light on some questionable dealership service practices. You’re very skilled. Congratulations on your move to a less stressful work environment.
after 40 years as a tech and parts guy. working at dealerships was the worst decision i have ever made in my life. now that i am free from it i actually enjoy my life again
I was a BMW dealer tech. I also left this flat rate BS and I was one of the fast guy in the shop. I now work for Dept. of National Defence as a civilian mechanic. I could not be happier.
Quit. No such word as ‘quitted’
Doesn’t anyone bother looking at auto correct??
@@Rocket-hb6jh Thank you high school teacher. I'm French Canadian. I made a mistake. I will correct it just for you.
@@kent570253 no worries. I wasn’t trying to be a smart arse, but you can take it that way if you like.
@@Rocket-hb6jh All is good. Have a nice day.
@@kent570253 you too.
I've been a Hyundai tech for almost 11 years and every work he speaks is true and it's sad and most of the service managers don't care about the techs it's all about there csi scores
hyundai and their warranties. maybe its better to get a reliable toyota and not a pos that contantly requires repair
when upper management gets compensated and take the weekend off with their boats, who cares about the guys below him?
@@BIKEMAN21 yeah. It with a Hyundai you get a free new engine every few years🤣
@@BIKEMAN21 all manufacturers have warranties, all manufacturers have recalls. Regardless of what brand you think is best, tech still get shafted on warranty times. Speaking from experience
@@fogsmart a new engine that was built with hyundai's finest engineering and a bullet proof 10 yr warranty... im a skeptical : P and dont most engines last 20 years minimum... what about all the other parts? seems like a gimmick !
My GMC Dealer pays the mechanic an hourly wage, as a customer I have always felt this allows time for the mechanic to service my truck in a non rushed fashion and at the end of the week be fairly compensated. Flat rate to me seems to be a losing way for both customers and the mechanics. Nice Video. thanks !
It is
Shops that pay mechanics flag hours, paying them based on the estimated time a job should take, in some cases, creates an environment where the Technitian could be dishonest so they can make money. Shops should give there Technitians a guarantee for 30 hours a week, but if they beat that by completing more than 30 hours, they get paid for whatever completed
Mechanics are dumb pussies and nurses are cool!"In partnership with the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), beginning in 2006 nurses brought antitrust class actions lawsuits against major health systems in Memphis, San Antonio, Albany Chicago, Detroit, and Arizona, alleging that hospital employers in each of these markets conspired to suppress nurses’ wages. The nurse-plaintiffs in the lawsuits claimed that the defendant health systems violated the Sherman Antitrust Act by reaching an express agreement on what nurses would be paid or, in the alternative, exchanging confidential wage information either directly through informal communications among compensation personnel or indirectly through third parties, such as trade associations conducting wage surveys. Plaintiffs claimed that as a result of these agreements and communication between health systems, compensation for nurses in the affected markets was below what nurses would otherwise be earning, particularly in light of the nursing shortage."
@@JasonLee-lv7tm it definitely makes them dishonest, coworker went in with a seized spark plug, Next thing you know the engine supposedly needs replaced due to low compression, coworker goes in with his gauge, proves him wrong and car is still driving
Right? I never understood this, when I was in college I was told that for the most part of you don’t get everything absolutely perfect (I’m no perfectionist) but when I’m rushed I tend to miss certain details it’s absolute bullshit
Miss having you in the shop bud. Glad you’re killing it and enjoying the new job
I was just there picking up some parts. Seen your buddies but you weren’t there
@@SEsGarage I came in around 1:30 to organize my new box. I heard you were there and I’m sorry I missed you
Whenever I see a video like this I always watch it to reaffirm how I feel. I’ve been in and out of the industry twice since high school and everything you said is on point. The typical dealer doesn’t offer a 40 hour guarantee and the amount they expect for free goes up every day, while warranty labor times drop. I most recently worked for Toyota until this past summer, and the stress of sitting around losing money when it’s slow or snowing is not worth it, let alone all the free diags, unfair ticket distribution, cleaning the shop etc. and then managers want to hold techs accountable anytime something goes wrong. Free diag encourages the parts cannon, plain and simple. Things break sometimes, it’s part of the job. I don’t need to be worried about if I’m going to have to pay for it, when something breaks once in a blue moon. I left and got a job in another field while getting my own shop together to have the best of both worlds.
I know this is an old video, but I do agree with you on the diagnosis part for Hyundai: spend an hour diagnosing a job to replace a component that pays 0.4 and that’s all you get
I’ve been working as a auto tech. just shy of 40 years now, I feel your pain with the cutting of hours. I was subjected to that. Also when I worked on flat rate, very frustrating when you got a feed your family extremely nerve-racking I’m not ashamed to say I had to go on two different anxiety medication‘s just to go to work and provide for my family. when you work at a flat rate, they totally got you by the balls. My grandfather was a Chrysler mechanic that retired in 1982. He worked in industry for almost 50 years. Remember him telling me how everything got messed up in the late 70s and early 80s ,, before 1980 give or take mechanics used to get 50% of labor, can you imagine that now,!! And there was no customer pay or warranty paid. It was all the same and I remember him telling me that’s what destroyed being a mechanic in the automotive industry and working at a dealer. Now I work for a fleet company that does pay very well gives a good benefits. You can actually take the time and learn something and get the job done right. Not that I didn’t do the job right working on flat rate we always had a saying. There’s a right way of doing things then there’s the flat rate of doing things then there’s the wrong way of doing things. I simply had to what I had to do put dinner on the table for your family. Ibut fleet is definitely the way to go the industry to seem to of flip-flopped 20 years ago you would make more money to dealer and less at fleet now it switched the other way around which I find kind of weird and fascinating at the same time. If you want a career as a mechanic technician however you want to put it. I’m a little old-school be a fleet mechanic it’ll save you a lot of headaches. Dealers are horrible.
I went through this with Chrysler in the eighties as a Jr. Technician. I got stuck fixing a lot of water leaks due to poor body construction on their vehicles. I got paid half the hours I actually spent on these cars. I went independent until I finally left the business. I'm semi retired and use my mechanical skill repairing consumer level, small engines and equipment.
Spot on. I left Ford/Lincoln after 18 years. I got Nothing but warranty electrical nightmares to diagnose. Never got anything I could make time on. Always making around 36 hours. Just wasn't worth it anymore. Went to a good hourly independent shop and have zero regrets after three months.
I’m a female mechanic and I too work at A Ford/Lincoln dealership in Austin and I’m going through the same thing you are. And I wanna leave. Any other job places/ positions in the auto industry that you recommend?
@@raven75335 I gave up and went indy at an old friend's shop. Nice clean and modern shop.
I’m a ford dealer tech and I’ll probably make less than 40 hours for 2 weeks, yes TWO weeks cause 75% of the jobs I’ve got this
Pay period were warranty electrical nightmares and rattles and wind noises and maybe 4 CP maintenance jobs. I’m about to get married in less than half a year and I can not support a family like this. No pay guarantee.
@@raven75335 Move up to tech supervisor at Ford or go upscale? Mercedes and BMW cost 3x more to maintain.
I work as a flat rate certified Hyundai technician currently and Friday is my last day working for Hyundai. What they expected you to do and what they pay and not even close great video
Left hyundai as-well years ago, went into fleet and never going back.
Hey, so I'm in the same predicament at Hyundai, what or where did you transition to?
I went into the independent world. Go find a shop near you. They pay better and there is no warranty you have to deal with everything is customer pay
I went into the independent world. Go find a shop near you. They pay better and there is no warranty you have to deal with everything is customer pay
I went into the independent world. Go find a shop near you. They pay better and there is no warranty you have to deal with everything is customer pay
I was a VW/Audi tech back when we were replacing 1.8T engines for sludge every week. The warranty job paid anywhere from 9-14 hours depending on the car and I never met anyone who could do it anywhere close to that time. At best, you'd work for a half or whole day for free to get it done.
WOW! very well said!👏
I was a master Chevrolet tech at the same dealership for 30 years repairing transmission for the last 15 before I quit for the same reason! Only reason I stayed as long as I did is the dealership was located 5 minutes from my home.
This industry needs to make changes for technician's to make a good living. With the cost of tools, time invested in training and certification's, etc. there needs to be more in it for them!
What's going to happen when they can't find technician's to repair there products anymore???
In this kind of world today, there are always new technicians available. The dealership just need to put icing on top to customers to make out of this inexperienced new technicians they hired.
i was doing well in the 80's but them gm started cutting everything every year. year after year pay was going down nt up so I moved on also. I was gm/ase master my whole time wrenching. I thought things would have changed by now but maybe coming soon???
Back in 2008 - 09 when GM was bailed out I finished overhauling a unit, went to look up the time and across the board the times had all been slashed! So I took a pay cut for it! What I had been doing for yrs I had to do at much lower rate! If memory survives me right a 4L60 overhaul paid around 6 hours! and that included R&R Crazy! Yeah you could ask for ST but try to get it!
@@Jimlup i remember a v8 chevy small block with cracking in the valley issue that paid less than 7 hrs to replace short block
I did the same at Buick Olds ,Pontiac Chevy , left 10 years ago
For those who don't know, Flat rate started with Henry Ford, but only body / paint issues prior to the great Depression. When the Depression was in full swing, the only way most automotive repair shops could stay in business was eliminating hourly pay, then splitting the labor 50% with the Tech. That's where the 50/50 for mechanical labor started. And largely it ended up being a win/win until the 60's when dealers started moving away from that because warranty costs (Tech pay) were too high. By the the mid 80's, most independent shops also moved away from any % split and just paid a set agreed hourly rate with the shops taking evermore of the lions share
My experience is similar to yours, I started out as a lube tech, worked my way up to being a tech just to discover just how awful this job really is, got a job working for a local municipality, more time off, better pay, better work environment.
Used to work for a Toyota dealership. They required everyone to work 7am-6pm. Felt like I lived there. An opportunity came up to work for exotic cars, I get paid hourly but it’s double my pay when I was flat rate. Do not regret it one bit. Lots of learning and I’m guaranteed money and it’s less stressful knowing if imma make ends meet. You always hear the stories that dealerships urgently need technicians but they burn their own bridges the way they treat their technicians.
yup toyota is shit. asks how i know. 7am-5pm with a 50 minute drive.
how many hours in week?
In my home town there was a guy working on exotic Jags I bet he was doing well. Best wishes.
I left Hyundai after 12 years, the last few years as Shop Foreman. Went back to my German roots. I’m now back at Hyundai strictly to have a familiar work environment but it’s much worse than it was when I originally left(and it was bad a few years ago). Currently going back to college for mechanical engineering degree. At my dealer we charge 100% over warranty, they will not charge Hyundai for diagnostic time. There is no hope for this field. Your video hit the nail on the head. Glad you got out.
I was doubling Alldata labor times and it still wasn’t enough to make it worth it.
I don’t touch Hyundais or Kias as a result.‘I tell the client to go to the dealer and tell them to do it for book time!!
My foreman here at Hyundai is about to leave as well, he says over the course of 21 years it's all gone downhill!
I was a Ford tech. I no longer work for a dealership either. Actually I switched trades got into electricity. I can’t think of any other trade, where, if a manufacturer or engineer messes up us workers are forced to fix it for a lower rate than we would for any other normal job our skills require.
I must feel like people who stick around being a dealer tech are comparable to an abused spouse getting the crap beat out of them, the abuser sucking every ounce of blood and sweat out of them and them thinking oh he will change one day. 😅
That’s exactly how it feels. I actually considered getting into the local electrician union. I just can’t afford the pay cut of being an apprentice for 5 years. It sucks because I actually really enjoy working on cars but the pay and benefits are almost not worth it at this point.
@@Camj27so well said! Thank you 🙏 gonna make another video soon. Up on my 2 year mark of quitting Ford.
Wow -everything is great for everybody EXCEPT the customer and the employee! What a deal!
This is exactly why I quit Toyota. I went through toyota’s T-Ten class at my community college for 2 years and because toyota certified and A1-A8 certified. I worked as a lube tech at just $10 an hour. I seen how much techs made and all the headaches they went through and I left while I could. The cars, and technology has changed but flat rate has not. It’s all about greedy corporations not wanting to pay
Same situation
Started at Toyota
Got all 8 ases
Still on lube line making 12$ an hour
Saw that guys who have been there for 12 years only making 25$ an hour
Left went to fleet and started at what the “masters” at Toyota where making an hour no flat rate garbage no warranty no recalls
@@zues2013 This^ this is exactly what I went through man. The top master techs that were there were making $25 an hour MAX! Like that’s crazy man. I left automotive all together because my back and joints were hurting like crazy! Luckily now I make fender liners and dashes for manufactures but it pays way more.
current t-ten student here just got my A6 and finished my first semester…. any advice? should i pursue get what i can out of toyota and dip when i’ve learned it all?
@@iNFeCTzZ that would probably be the way to do it. Dealerships are slower to move guys up may have changed now given the ongoing exodus.
Lol, typical Korean troll comment. Bringing Toyota to the table to distract people about Hyundai's dirty trash 😅
I am in Canada. I relate to everything you said. I just retired from working in 3 different GM shops over my 34 year career as a flat rate warranty tech. It is a everyman for himself job and a mostly thankless environment tbh. Always having to retool out of pocket or take more and more training to do the warranty work the pays less and less year after year as they chop warranty times.
Glad I am out now, time to sell some tools I will never use again and time to live with my 2 bad shoulders and damaged neck-cervical spine. I am the last of 4 licenced auto mechanics in my immediate family. My father and two of his brothers and myself. End of an era.
That's why we should be unionized just like construction workers
One problem with unionizing the auto repair business is the shade tree, non union guys. Who will stop them? They can work for less, they can buy parts at discount prices, and many don't even pay taxes.
@@rollydoucet8909 when the side job guy makes a big mistake we can charge them more for fixing it
@@dannytam9046 That's for sure. Once the back-yard guy takes the money, there's no guarantee for the work done.
@@rollydoucet8909 It depends on what is meant by "shade tree guy". An unqualified weekend warrior grease monkey is one thing but a serious and skilled independent with specialized focus (domestic, Japanese, German, etc) with a local reputation to protect is another, esp in this age of Google Reviews and Yelp. And the indies do compete with one another, also, not just the dealerships. I'm not in the auto service business but I am a consumer and I find this thread with the various comments fascinating to read.
@@jgknudtson When I say "shade tree' mechanics, I'm not referring to the well-equipped, well-run, privately owned small shops. Many small shops are clients of ours, who take advantage of our machine shop. We're a full-service biz, complete with automotive machine shop services. We started out in a service station in 1969, and small, independent shops are the major part of the walk-in trade.
I've been in the business over twenty years. I started out working at a Auto Parts store, then a Tire shop. Moved on to the dealership world around 2004. Work at a Toyota dealer making $13hr, barely hit 40hrs a week. That was when business was booming. I left in 2006. Went to a Jaguar and Land rover dealer and never looked back. Fifteen years later things have changed a lot. I was nervous about that move many years ago, but i'm glad I did it. Now as far as flat rate goes. With all these EV's hitting the market. Flat rate will not survive. There is now way it can. It will be a ton of diagnosis and next to no maintenance.
EV's are not doing well, numbers are not selling, people dont want a car that catchs on fire and cant be put out, and that the battery replacement costs as much as the car did new. The truth about them is becoming evident and people just don't want the hassle of it
I hear ya my guy. Been with Hyundai for 15 years now and the writing seems to be on the wall. Last year I did 83 engines under warranty. My local Ford dealer as a whole didn’t even do that many.
Hyundai changed engines after 2010 ???.
The 09, 10 Engines where great no problems!
@@joesmith6524 Those must be the ones on the" internet" with hydraulic lifters containing plastic parts !
83! Not bad. Catching up to ya!
83 engines? I was considering a Hyundai, but I won't now. Looks like the Marquis will need to run another 440,000 miles.
Is Suzuki best Japanese motorbike?
I left Mercedes-Benz after 15 years for the same reason. Year after year making less hours or having to work more hours to make the same amount. Now I'm in a salary job and so much less stress
I just left MB after 19 years for those reasons you stated and many others. I'm working on diesels at a Fedex Fleet. My life is exponentially better!
Quit my Benz dealership job after a 6 dollar pay check, doing a rear main on a G wagon kicked my ass. Never again though
I have watched "several" other mechanics channels vids that state the SAME , happening all over .... Mainly at "stealerships" that they themselves have worked for ..... I think it is BAD BUSINESS to be doing that to the techs that are GOOD, LOYAL , professionals !!!! SADLY, ... "GREED" has taken over most businesses these days.... And sadly it is us (the consumers), that suffer the most ... BECAUSE when mechanics/techs are NOT paid "fairly" for their work, most will tend to "rush" through a repair, or take shortcuts, out of necessity for them to EARN A DECENT pay .... and in some cases NOT perform a quality repair on the customer's vehicle .....
My grandfathers 2015 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6 underwent a timing chain tensioner replacement and VVT gear replacement under a TSB for timing chain chatter on cold start. It was just barely under warranty, super close to 100,000 miles and they honored it. After watching this I feel bad for the poor tech who had to do the job, seeing how bad your labor times are for warranty. I work at a Toyota dealership. Recently, we've had some good techs leave. One of them even became a service advisor. I know a couple more who are planning to leave or thinking about leaving.
KIA shits on the "second" owner, for sure. I have a 3.3 with timing chain rattle and complained about it at 59k miles and the service guy basically told me to get screwed. I bought the car at 7k miles, but as second owner, kiss that 100k mile warranty goodbye.
@@vc8my What irritates me is the warranty should have been good through 60k miles. I brought it in at 59k and was told to go away.
@@jamesplotkin4674 that’s why you always read the fine print before purchasing anything. Marketing has infected all industries
my buddy worked as a tech for 20 plus years and now approaching age 50. He became an advisor. And as an immigrant the other techs always talked shit to him.
Feel you bro. I’m a trucker and the company I work for pays for the route and not by the hour anymore. I still make out good but the older guys that do a good job work more hours than me for the same pay. There was a bunch of drivers working 55-60 hours a week when the job could have been done in 40. Ruined it for everyone else. Now that it’s by the route, the guys that used to sleep on the side of the road for hours everyday now rush around the yard and at the deliveries like the world is coming to an end.
I agree with all of you, every repair industry needs quality technicians, yet they want to cut the technicians throat when the garbage that their engineers designed start failing ? , they need to either start designing better quality products and/or start paying the people who who have to correct their mistakes fairly!!! As a technician if you have a comeback you have to eat it, they should have to do the same! I don't know who allegedly does their time studies but I know they are a joke, if you're going to warranty a vehicle for 200k miles, the manufacturer should be made to run 4 off those under extreme real world conditions to 200k miles, then have 4 different mid skill level technicians perform the time studies! And do them in real time, not starting and stopping the stop watch every time a wrench is picked up and set down, if they expect a line technician to deal with rust,rot and corrosion while doing a warranty repair then the warranty time should compensate for that!! The technician didn't design or create your problems, but you expect them to make it right , so if the manufacturers want to keep producing and selling vehicles, then you need to pay the people who fix your mistakes FAIRLY!!!!!
I was flat rate for Toyota for 33 years. Went to the top as a tech. All schools all certs. I never saw a time study video EVER! They pull those times out of thin air. Remember they're under no obligation to be fair to the techs. Without Union representation techs have absolutely no power against those who pay them. This is why I got a State job too.
Also too if you complain about poor pay suddenly you're not a team player with a bad attitude and you could get starved out of the dealer by suddenly not getting any customer pay work. Only warranty for you!!
BMW Group is another shit they cut down on time dealership are hungry for more money technicians are strangled to death by these conditions the this industry is messed up
Good for you, taking a stand & moving forward in your life. I can never understand how all these shops don’t supply the bulk of the tools needed to do the work on these cars. Sure if there’s a special tool to make your life easier, you buy it, but the main bulk should be supplied by the business.
Dream world all tools are bought
I believe in most other countries that the employer provides techs with needed tools. I worked in USA in auto collision field and an italian coworker was amazed at the idea of getting on the tool truck and dropping thousands of dollars there.
For sure any "specialty tools" i.e. manufacturer required tools should be supplied by the dealership. Standard tools to be supplied by the technician. Techs should not have to own overinflated manufacturer tooling they may use for 10 jobs total. Just look at the prices on those GM tools kicensed to one company, what a rort!
Go to aviation. They’re required to provide the tools and time required to complete the job
@@skeptick6513 yes most countries u don't buy the tools
Good video. All valid points. It's not just the dealership side the aftermarket side is seeing the same thing. Many people are getting out of the industry. I agree Flat Rate is antiquated at this point given the complexity of these newer cars. I also think Flat Rate's days are becoming numbered. The longer that shops cant find quality guys they will get that they have to make a change.
I had an issue with a Ford service rep at my local dealer and their manager called me... I was SHOCKED to hear the techs work on flat rate... to me, this is an incentive for a tech to rush a job but also, I immediately saw this as potentially unfair to the techs themselves as well... the manager confirmed to me 100% what you said in this video; he loses all his good techs eventually to government jobs and private shops. I have one last service remaining on my premium service plan and from that day forward, my neighbor who owns a trusted local auto shop will get my business.
This is why I WILL NEVER EVER buy another Hyundai/Kia. I had 2015 Sonata with engine issues. I was so glad that I leased it. If we don't buy their products, they will learn!
Let me guess,you took the 2.0 or the 2.4 turbocharged? Stay away on turbocharged engine.stay N/A engine if you like longevity and less headache
I worked for a Kia dealership for 8 months at $13 an hour flat rate and they did not honor ASE certifications nor any outside certifications at all! You had to start from the very bottom even if you were a Master tech. They want you to get certified "through Kia"...I left and went to Nissan much better.
I worked at Nissan with a tech who was with Huyndi for 9 years, he also said Nissan was much better.
@@arizonalifestylechannel2186whats benifit for working with nissan tell more about this😊
This is why I left Chrysler Group after 29 years now working in tech support for a scantool company.
We need more ppl like you to know your value! Yes! And good luck to you!
Never worked flat rate, but I know many that have. It used to have hard times, but like you said, it worked. Problem is, these companies are trying to put more money in their pockets. What they don’t realize is it’s great short term, but they’re gonna hate it when they got no one to fix their vehicles.
I know one guy that worked for GMC. There was a recall (can’t remember for what). He said he had to: get the ticket, locate the vehicle, pull it in, get it ready, do the recall, and then release it. His pay? .17 hours. Yes, that decimal is intentional.
AS a Dual Master ASE Master Tech, I left the industry. An example is a warranty seat cover replacement for a F150. Flat Rate is 0.6 hr but takes 2.5 hr. The seat needs removed and disassembled to install a new cover along with 50 hog rings.
You got that right can't believe it 43 years where is the payoff . All the hard work, experience, training
I switched to fleet work in the 12 volt industry. Very similar situation, was in a commission environment but then they started reducing rates or the competition would race to zero.
Need to always be ready and willing to change.
Flat rate, explained. Great video. Most auto dealership mechanics I know, eventually opened their own shops, because the found out they could do better working for themselves, than working for a dealer at flat rate pay scales.
Flat rate is bullshit and literally will screw a technician, especially warranty rates.
We aren't "mechanics" anymore. We have so many other skills in our toolbox. There is so much technology in cars today, the diagnostics can be challenging, and they don't figure for that fairly anymore.
Also, when Flat rate was first thought of for mechanics, you got 50% of the shop rate. Now it's more like 8-10% of the shops rate.
Nah... my box is in storage now and until dealerships step back up and start paying for service, then they will continue to lose good techs. Myself being one of them.
Will never happen
@@jeffl1944 you obviously don't understand economics. I never thought McDonald's would pay a teenager 15 bucks an hour but here we are....
This flat rate in all country?? What about australia?
The issues have been there even when I was a flat rate back in the early 1980's. I was doing 45-60 hours a week at a Chrysler dealership and they started even then to cut flat rate. At the time I retraining into aviation as a structure mechanic in the Air Force Reserves. Once I had all my aircraft certifications I applied at Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Lockheed and accepted a position at Boeing. 30 years later I retired out of Boeing.
The cost are to high for a flat rate as the expectation is that we have to provide our own tools, pay for the certification training and then pay for the testing and the dealerships then pile on the BS and not back us up. It has been going on for way to many years and yet flat rate has been cut over and over again. But the French crop out of the various schools will place the next generation of mechanic right into the dealerships and turn over for the techs will be 150% per year for the future.
I hate to say this but the only way for mechanics to get ahead is the independent shops and the ones in dealerships to unionize.
This. I just got my A&P in the civilian world back in December of last year. Took a job with skywest. Hourly pay and benefits are amazing. Work is fairly simple. Relatively. 8 months later I am headed to united airlines. Again hourly. Union that has your back. Plus a 50+\hr top out within 8 years and that’s always increasing to match the industry. Couldn’t be happier with my choice to leave the auto industry.
@@virenpatel9973 That is so good that you took the path you did and it is similar to mine except I worked on new aircraft and you work on in service aircraft. I am glad I took that path as it provided for my family
I don't believe unions are the answer to a broken system, it would only add yet another layer
@@tmtheasphaltgambler3709 I work at dealership as a tech and it’s a union shop. That does not affect the fate rate warrty time that the manufacturer set. So your correct Union does not change anything
dude you are so right. t3g warranty pay was complete shit. I left the industry all together because of it. it was once a good job but has pushed all of us good techs out of the dealerships.
What career did you switch to?
its same as health insurance screwing up most medical system by underpaying doctors and screwing the patients with inferior treatment. Manufacturers are screwing over the techs and their customers.
I’m a flat rate Hyundai dealership tech and I can say this is spot on.
which auto company gives u hourly just told me
Automotive dealerships aren’t what they used to be. Fleet work is the way to go steady 40 with a little bit of overtime.
Thanks for explaining this situation to us. I don't drive a Hyundai, but if I did, I'd want you as my mechanic. I no longer use my dealership to repair or do maintenance on my car. I've found a private guy whose labor rate is less than the dealership (but it's not cheap) and he and his technicians I trust immensely. I'm glad you knew enough to change your working conditions and wish you the best working for the state. You're an asset to anybody you work for. Maybe one day you can branch out on your own.
Im a hyundai tech as well. You are 100percent correct! Now they cant find techs for the life of them. Just a bunch of kids who cant fix a car. Hyundai points stolen by management.
What are your thoughts on 2010 Hyundai Sonata, good used car or no?
I'm with you we are a dying breed I could have a three hour long conversation with you or any tech the love I have for fixing cars is what is keeping me at the dealership but we are at the bottom of the totem pole warranty pay is horrible, getting parts sucks alot of us do side work just to feed our families I pray for all those struggling God bless all of you
I was at one time a semiskilled technician doing training and hoping to become a Hyundai apprentice and eventually a service technician in full. I got laid off during the early days of COVID and ended up getting a job working on forklifts. I miss my old coworkers and I do miss working on cars, but I DO NOT miss the dealership. The way it all happened turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I'm now considering starting my own mobile mechanic business on the side, then full time with it if I am successful enough. The dealer is, as you said, a sinking ship. There are too many bean counters calling the shots up and down the corporate ladder for the business model to be sustainable. Best of luck to you my man.
i tell my auto techs all the time that the money and security is at forklift and HD truck shops hrly pay and benefits plus retirement
Engines down from 9hrs to 6.2hrs !!!!!! glad I left Hyundai in 2019 after 18 yrs. Labor studies...oh yeah that was always the case.
In 2006 when Sonata came with the new 3.3L engine, techs figured out how to pull the front cover to replace leaking tensioners simply by lifting the motor on one end. Hyundai overheard this, verified it was possible and quickly dropped from 13hrs to 5 hrs iirc.
Hyundai never paid techs more then .3 tenths to diag any CEL, that was always a bummer but you get used to it not knowing any better. Even when calling techline and they struggled to help you, it didnt matter. you get your .3 tenths (15min)
As a former auto assembly worker these manufacturers do practically the same thing. They simply reduce manpower,increase speed and pay less. I always wondered if so called “Lean Manufacturing” extended to dealership workers
one thing does not add up here. if the manufacturer wants to pay less for warranty repairs then why make their vehicles so time consuming and hard to repair. cars seem to be designed in such a way to make the dealership as much money as possible when the warranty expires though.
@@BIKEMAN21
The dealership probably gets their cut regardless of what the technician gets paid. Could be two different standards. I’m no expert but dealerships do have all kinds of ways to make a profit at the expense of customers and employees. Just my take on it and I could be way off
@@BIKEMAN21 dealership are franchises. So when your vehicle comes if for a warranty, there is a code (for the repair) then a flat rate time that is associated with the repair. Also the part has to be sent back and paper work attached to the repair order for reimbursement from the manufacture.
If any one of those things are not in order the claim is bounced and the dealership eats it.
As far as customers the flat rate time divided in half then added to the original time. So if wartty time is 1.0hr you would divide it in half (.50) then add it to the original time which give you 1.5hrs
@@TheBennynyc2 good to know lol
@@jimmyg5636 yes!! Dealerships make ridiculous money and use monopolistic practices to limit competition and overcharge. Greedy bustards usually and their employees secretly hate the rich a-hole owners.
Wish you all the best. I left the dealership scene years ago for the same reason. Sad to see it is still the same with vehicles and warranties are so much better.
I forgot to add. I have owned my 2012 Civic for 9 years and 207,000 km. Total cost of repairs are:
Wheel Bearing at 110,000 km - $250 Canadian
Serpentine Belt Tensioner at 160,000 km - $160 Canadian
Muffler Replaced at 206,000 km - $300 Canadian
So, driving 207,000 km has cost me $710 Canadian in repairs.
My Toyota Corolla was driven to 250,000 km and cost me a total of $400 in repairs, but it started to burn oil at 191,000 km, so I eventually got rid of it.
Big flex
Amen bro. I left the business in 2008. I started in 1985. This situation is only gonna get worse. No respect for any Techs. Independent shops with flat rate are the same. Just not quite as bad as dealerships. Longer warranties ? Yep. Only makes it worse.
I’ve worked at a lot different dealerships Kia, Toyota and Mazda. Flat rate is garbage. It’s not even just warranty work, insurance jobs take forever to process too. The easy fluids, and the easy cash jobs are taken before they hit the board. Your not alone out there guys.
YT recommended this video. I generally hate cars and have no maintenance skills. I also had no idea about Flat Rate work for Technicians and I appreciate your ability to ad lib and successfully reach an audience similar to me. I'm going to appreciate my goto shop's Techs much more now. Nice work!
I appreciate your kind words and I’m glad I could educate you on how the pay scale works for most technicians!
Kia / Hyundi cut the time for the motors because there were a bunch of hot shot techs that posted the repair on TH-cam and told the manufacturer how they did the repairs in such little time. There is always a group of people out the that ruins everything for everybody
I’ve seen this first hand on several Hyundai technician pages. Legitimately shooting themselves, and the rest of us in the foot
@@SEsGarage I get to sit in on all the DPSM meetings. It has come up multiple of times. There are now people who are watching for this.
@@toddttautomotiveequipment2871 my FSE had mentioned to me that Hyundai hired some sort of research company to figure out why they had such an exodus of techs but I already had my foot out the door at the time
@@SEsGarage it has to start with one manufacturer. It’s Industry wide right now. They are all looking to see who else is stupid enough to post a short cut video so they can cut time.
When I was a Tech I was always told to run 80% of all the time so I don’t called out for the short cuts. Warranty and customer pay all the time was 80-90%
Preach brother preach!! I left the dealers back in 2012 and never looked back
I was flat rate at a franchise shop and it was a joke, they wanted us there 80 hours a week and get paid 40-50 hours a week ..
Worked at a Chrysler dealership, when Iacocca retired they hired new top manager from a different automaker. He immediately boosted profits by cutting every 3 hour job to 2 hours with a stroke of a pen. I know many flat rate mechanics who quit because an oil change/tire "kid" made more money.
how lube tech make more money?
I am a flat rate tech going on 35 years now with the same import manufacturer and back in the late 80s and 90s it was a very good business to be in , more then doubled the actual time in a day and that lasted for 20 years . I am older but the changes and technology on these vehicles are advancing so much that it is impossible to understand how the vehicle communicates within itself ..When you call technical support and they tell you to swap part till you find the problem then only get paid for the failed part is hours lost for the tech and dealership ..Flat rate needs to end and a salary with bonus based on experience and training is the future I hope .
Left the flate rate game 5 years ago for transit buses. Best choice I ever made.
Im currently the engine guy at my dealership. Without any customer pay work i have to bust my butt to make 80 hours off of just engines.. Im about to find a completely different career. Yes $30 an hour is nice but not when you dont get paid for the work you do..
I work for a factory, and I do warranty repairs time tests. And if it takes me 3 hours for the warranty, right it up as a 1.5 to 2 hour warranty repair. They time it by vehicle on the hoist tools already laid out parts on the beanch sometime it been do on its 2nd or 3rd time one the same vehicle and its a speed run on the final timed test.
Corporate thinking and cutting those labor hrs can take off their office suits and do the job themselves, that's why I've never worked for a dealer, mobile mechanic for now then open a shop later.
Crazy stuff it always bottles down to the people in the office thinking you can get paid less to do the same...
Great video. I worked as a Mechanic for 26 years and the last one was for Kia. And I can back you up and say when they dropped the labor time for those motors alot of Kia certified techs left. If i remember the Kia soul labor went from 9 hours to 5.5 hours. No one in our shop wanted to do them. our shop was small and we had 6 Techs and three if us left within 2 months. Here in California at least where i worked we also were guaranteed 40 hours. but there were alot of days or weeks where because of warranty times we could not make our 40 hours and then the Manager and GM would wonder why. You as a Hyundai tech know That make along with Kia has alot of electrical issues. Once i left i got so many offers for an Auto tech that i turned off the notifications from indeed because there is such a high demand to Mechanics, But like you said and thousands of others have is Techs are not treaded good anyone. Every year manufactures cut hours and its not fair to techs at all and they end up leaving the business or for something similar. And also one more thing. Majority of these Makes and Models of vehicles these days do not need major services for at least 90-100k and for techs that was a big money maker. so take that out and cut warranty times equal disaster. sorry its so long. I enjoyed this video.
You nailed it right on!! Miss having you in the shop
My man! Miss you guys
Labor times reduce. But dealer charge for labor hours keeps increasing. Who’s making the money. Salesmen get treated better than the people keeping the brand and dealer afloat. This flat rate is bullshit. Pay hourly. New cars require experience. That experience needs to be compensated for. Dealer shouldn’t be pocketing more money for a technician who needs more time to properly diagnose a car. The technician should get that money. This is exactly why mechanics as a whole are a dying breed. Nobody wants to get taken advantage of. Pay more or lose your competent mechanics. Walk out like this guy. Don’t take shit from these dealers. Specialty shops pay more. Dealers have one goal. To make their profits go up. Where do they get most of that money? Service. Don’t let them. Walk out. They need you. You don’t need them.
I agree and under why you left. I was a expert technician for Hyundai for a few years and started on master tech classes. I left due to poor management and for the warranty times getting dropped severely on a lot of the recalls/warranty times.
I just found a TH-cam video from a Korean mechanical engineer and they tore down a Hyundai smart stream 2.5 engine. Apparently it has a huge design flaw with the pistons and piston rings allowing oil burning. As a former Hyundai technician do you think this problem will affect cars with these engines here?
Glad to have this channel. My wife and I are Hyundai owners and really appreciate having your expertise and channel. Thanks for the Hyundai tips!!
I’ve been in the industry for 10 years. Spent 2 years at Hyundai, 2 years at GMC, 4 years at an independent, and now I’m 2 years into Honda. I just made the switch to flat rate a year ago, so far everything is going well. We have a very good team here and my service manager is amazing at her job and makes a relationship with all of us. As a flat rate tech, I don’t have the hopes to jump through for warranty because she handles them, as long as I have my diagnostics and documented what was performed, I get paid for what she feels is fair. We get a 35 hour guarantee, which is huge IMO. We also keep 2 techs as hourly rate, 1 is a younger tech that we use as a lube tech and helper. The other is licensed but doesn’t like flat rate, so he gets most of the poorly paid jobs (heater cores, engines, transmissions, wiring harnesses, etc. We’re in eastern Canada, so an engine/trans job on a vehicle outside of warranty can be a nightmare due to rust) and he loves it. He gets his hourly rate, and then a bonus for each RO that we try to avoid giving to a flat rate tech.
The only way I will ever work for a dealer again
1. 50% of the ticket minimum
2. Customer and Warranty time parity (Its actually the law in my state but these fools still violate it)
3. All tools must work (Tire balancers, lifts, everything better work and better be organized.)
4. If no flag flat, $52,000 minimum for entry certified techs. Entry level HVAC, Welders etc are paid more than this.
I definitely hear you. Tech pay plans need changes. Just be careful about making it sound like you've been overcharging customers.
Yeah he could have better explained the customer pay vs warranty thing for those watching who may not be in the field
Interesting video about dealership repair. I have a Sonata, and really enjoyed some of your past Hyundai repair videos.
I sincerely appreciate your honesty. Thanks for the video.
I feel the same way, I just don't know what to do.
Agree i left for similar reasons but also here in south africa we were also being forced to work from 6:45 to to after 18:00 monday to friday and saturday and often sundays too from 7:00 14:00 just about making target and the money was really pitiful due to the large quantity of free faults and the company keeping you there for more hours than they are paying overtime for so i decided to leave and do something else
I'm 62 and have been working on cars, trucks, and equipment since I was a little kid in my grandfather's shop. I remember mechanics coming around to hang out that worked for one dealer for like 20 - 30 years. Those days have been long gone since the 80's.. Turnover of mechanics is crazy everywhere now.
Everything he says it true spot on 💯 I’m getting ready to leave lithia Chevrolet because I’ve been a flat rate mechanic for almost a year there only making 35hrs every two weeks getting nothing but warranty and electrical diag that the other techs don’t want to touch or do I get a bone thrown to me here and there but it’s just not worth it any more.
You are too good for these big corporations. I wish you success. Subscribed.
I 110% agree with you. I worked for a Ford dealership in NJ in the mid 70s and even then, warrantee flat rate killed us. Once I had to replace a thermostat in a 75 V8 Mustang II. Absolute nightmare of a job. They were notorious for being very difficult to "burp" out all the cooling system air. Just purging all the air out could take a half hour and if you didn't do it completely, the engine could overheat & fail. They paid .6 hr to do the thermostat job (which was buried & tough in itself). I wrote up a technician's dispute of the allotted time and in the comments, I stated the reason some warrantee work was being completed sub-standard was the lack of fair time given to do it and that mechanics would "get 'em in and blow them out fast as possible". My comments were not appreciated by Ford Motor Company.
Thanks brother that explains a lot. I just liked your video and subscribed to your channel.
I took my 2015 Elantra Sport 2.0L MT to dealership for crankshaft bearing issue under warranty and they did a software update and advised me to let them do a wheel alignment.
I told the service manager my car is using oil and has lost power but he had nothing to say unless I have a check engine light. I change the oil every 5K miles with quality synthetic and it’s always dirty even after an oil change. Engine is making a whining noise when accelerating but that could be the clutch throughout bearing. Wonder if I would get better results from the dealership where I bought my car.
Thanks and have a merry Christmas.
Not to mention being flat rate during dry spells standing there not getting paid.. and having the tool expense flat rate is a absolute joke. Should be outlawed lmao
All of the Hyundai topics he mention in the video and other people mention on the comments are TRUE and I can confirmed it. I'm a Hyundai technician at my dealership & I'm their heavy line specialist. As of April 2022 I will have 7 years in Hyundai & my dealership literally receiving vehicles from other Hyundai dealerships that can't or won't work on most likely their staffing problems. The best way to survive is to be
VERY EFFICIENT in diagnosis, warranty documentation, parts quoting & actual repair(s). I got to the point where I can do a 3.3l V6 SHORT BLOCK ENGINE repair in the SAME work day from BAY-IN to BAY-OUT with all necessary parts & WITHOUT interruptions.
My brother did the same. He worked for Hyundai too. He owns his own shop now... busted his butt to do it.... he's doing well overall although it is stressful. Biggest struggle has been getting good help. He seems to have assembled a good team of guys, and he pays them pretty good because you have to try and keep them when you find them. He has plenty of stories at his former shady dealership's practices.
And on a side note, I have a great car in my 2017 Sonata Sport... but they didn't do the paint right and it just flies off the roof of the car at random. And of course it's not "under warranty". That ticks me off. I've manage to keep it from getting real bad using some touchup paint to try and keep it from sheeting off further. But I've seen some going down the road with half their paint peeled off. That's just crazy to me.
Yeah I work at a Honda and its ok but im not flat rate, many many good techs have left because of the stupid times. The other reason flat rate is bad is come backs. Crap just the the other day I helped a tech balance his tires. I placed the tires on the car. He never gunned up. wheels almost fell off. Rushing guys isn’t good.
At Kia $20flat rate I’m making less than the guy on the street Holding a sign and I’m busting my ass.
I have a Corvette. It's a decade old and has over 100Kmi on it. I take it to a local dealership because the one guy there, Angel, is great and knows it like the back of his hand. Last time it was there, I wanted the coil packs swapped out. The advisor couldn't find the book hours for that. I said, "just charge me for how ever long it actually takes him..." At a $156/Hr rate, I figured that was fair. Especially with old, cooked harnesses & connectors. They did finally find the book hours and they charged me that. They ain't cheap, but, so far, the fairness and honesty have been priceless. I don't blame you for leaving under those circumstances. And I've heard of a lot of botched repair jobs done at the dealerships on warranty repairs. Sounds like the manufacturers may have and impending disaster on their hands. A bad rep spreads geometrically throughout a population....
I was a line mechanic at a Chevrolet dealership and when they had 200 cars to get out to sell we were put on salary and when they had a few cars to fix we were put on flat rate. I quit.
Here in Australia there’s no flat rate employment. You get the minimum award wage or what you negotiate according to experience. You have to be fully qualified unless you are an apprentice and employed as such. The nearest thing we have to flat rate is warranty work. Hyundai and other manufacturers only pay dealers a reduced labour rate for warranty work but the times were usually just ridiculous. In a flat rate structure the amount of fuck ups and come backs must be huge just because of lack of attention to detail.
Flat rate is all about quantity not quality.
mate how much do you paid per hour
@@dangerboy1111 I was on $28 per hour plus any overtime was that plus half and under the award you get paid leave plus 17% . To be able to manage these rates employers rode you like a 2 dollar hooker to get value out if you. 35 years I was in the trade as well as being a trade teacher to apprentices.
I feel the same way in my industry also. New policies comes from above and i'm expected to run my department with less labor hour than what I actually need due to new "optimization." The company seems to wonder why managements are so hard to find at the moment when they are having record sales years with little to no incentives. Oh yes I love my job.
I use to be ASE certified haven't recertified in year's don't need to been left the dealership I work on diesel's generators etc I like my hourly pay it's very good and I get free insurance with 5 sick days and 4 weeks of vacation y'all can have that life been there done that
Unfortunately most automotive technicians in the dealer network I feel don’t know how to troubleshoot most problems. I’ve taken my vehicle to the dealership to help me diagnosis issues with my car , this was Acura , Mazda and recently Hyundai and these were newer vehicles. I’ve left the service department with no answers and had to fix the issue myself . Most of the time if you have a simple issue like brake change , oil change , large mechanical issue like a broken cv joint then the dealership will find the problem but if it’s in-depth electrical or minor mechanical yea they just don’t have the expertise . I invested about 5 hours of troubleshooting my TCU on my car to figure out an electrical problem. I feel bad for people who are the mercy of service departments . Hyundai gave me a recommended bill for maintenance for 3,000 dollars and couldn’t figure out the TCU problem. This means they stick their diagnostic scan tool and try to clear the code and if they can’t they start to look at wearable components and write up a color code chart for us to see that I need a new cabin filter. Sad
I had tge same issue at Toyota years ago. The only thing dealers are good for is getting experience in everything and make them send you to their tech school. After 6 years I took that knowledge to diesel repair which pays more and by the hour. I eventually worked on airline equipment. Hang in there and use them for your advancement.
I see this happening in all the dealerships. The techs I would trust to work on my vehicles are all gone. I have a 2017 santa fe that burns oil like mad and I'm having a hell of a time with the dealer. He has tons of cars and even engines lined up for replacements but no techs able to put them in. Doesn't help that they cut the hours to put them in. What area of the country were you working at a Hyundai dealer?
I would highly recommend to switch to valvoline oils or perhaps even better : synthetic oils.
It would make a tonne of difference
Alternatively you can buy a newer and better vehicle.
Mitsubishi is pretty good though , if want to take the cheaper way out proton.
Mazda makes pretty good cars as well.
Isuzu if want to maybe go off road more often
Exactly right!!👌👌👌
Get a Honda
Walked away from Hyundai in 2015 and stayed away from dealerships since, best decision made in the trade.
Gone over to independent shops and not looked back in the uk
Honda certified Platinum Tech left in 2015 ( they dont want to play ) they charge 120-160 hr and pay techs up here 25-30... we are suppose to get 33.3% of thr door rate.