More Advanced Than F1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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When you think of the pinnacle of motorsport innovation, you probably think of Formula 1. But what if I told you that groups of students from all around the world design and build cars that, in some ways, are way more innovative than F1?
These student-built cars might look like go-karts with wings, but they are fast and very advanced. Weighing only about 245 kilograms, they can pull two and a half G in the corners and are powered by four electric motors. One team even took their car to 60 miles per hour in less than a second.
So, I recently went to Oxford Brookes University to take a look at their Formula Student car. I wanted to understand why they look the way they do and what kind of crazy technology makes them so fast.
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#Engineering #FormulaStudent #Formula1
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I'm in the aerodynamic subsystem in a formula sae team in Brazil! It's a shitton of work (both in the design and manufacturing phase), but seeing your car on the track makes it all worth it.
Totally agree, I work in chassis for an Italian formula student team and tomorrow I will see for the chassis for the first time built. Can't wait
@Just_A_Noob912 hope everything goes well!
As a aero lead for RIT racing I totally agree.
Looks like they have parts of the competition for a much wider range of disciplines than I thought. Obviously its a great engineering learning tool, but business proposals, reports, presentations, etc are included as well? Is this handled by engineering students to give them some different experiences, or are the business school students brought in to get experience working on business proposals within a real engineering outfit?
Pra cima deles manooo!!!
I love how I am watching this video while running a aero sim for the formula student team I am on.
Are any models of them downloadable in any of the racing sims? Someone needs to get one in iRacing or something and then drive them on tracks they were never designed for lol.
Assetto has one. Look up: mad Formula team
so arrogant
Feel for you😂❤
@@theginix what did i miss?
I share my rocketry club’s lab space with our university’s FSAE team at ASU, and I see them work their asses off for building their car every year. They’re really amazing at what they do!
Lol the funny bit is our FSAE team use to share our space with the rocket team until we kicked them out bc we needed space and we were doing better competitions 😂
Seems like a good opportunity to collaborate!
@@float32 *welds black powder rockets to back of car* *does accel* zooooooommm
Our FSAE team shares the space with the rocketry club and the robotics team too!
Ohhh please balls click bait
Thank you very much for the video! I started as a driver in a Formula Student team (CampusTirolMotorsport) alongside my studies and now I race endurance on the Nürburgring Nordschleife and work as a Porsche instructor! If you are a motorsport enthusiast and have the opportunity, help the boys and girls of your Formula Student team at university - it opens huge doors!
zum Wohl Tirol!
Warte mal einen Moment, nur als Fahrer beim Team, das lassen die zu? Wie wird man denn Instruktor. Hab bisher das gleiche Thema wie du
I did a gravity karting program for young kids to get them into STEM, but with hands on “gear head” type experience because JPL studies found that engineers who had actually worked on real world projects were much better engineers and made far fewer mistakes.
244kg is pretty damn heavy, our car is around 200kg. I remember TUfasts car was about 150kg a few years ago when they were at the top.
yep... 200kg is already not good these days :/
i mean ka-raceing had their season-winning electric car at 185 kg back in 2016... 8 years ago 🤯
Delft we’re down below 120kg back in 2006 🤯
A competitive single will be 160ish, bit less than 200 for a multi cylinder
@@chrisuhracing we are talking electric :)
yeah I think we calculated 50kg extra would need 350 kg at 20 mph of downforce to counterbalance
The rules have changed
TU Delft car looking hot on the thumbnail but where is the photo credit???? looks photoshopped sus
Guy who took pic says didn't ask perm's then proceeded to edit out all sponsors lol. Would have thought that a motorsports channel this big would realise that not okay
I just finished my last year on an FSAE team. It's truly bittersweet. I'm going to have more time now to do other things in life, but I am going to miss the grind and excitement of designing, manufacturing, testing, and validating an FSAE car. I'm also going to miss all of the connections and bonds that were formed over the years. I highly recommend joining an FSAE team to anyone who has the opportunity to; it is very fulfilling.
Why aren’t optical sensors used for speed measurement (computer mouse style)? Are the speed estimation models good enough? I would assume a periodic ground truth measurement would still be beneficial.
@float32 I only worked on the mechanical systems of our cars, but I'm going to guess that having optical sensors exposed to the elements might not be as reliable as a magnetic sensor. Maybe someone with more experience may chime in 👍.
@@float32 most of the good teams use optical sensors (or even developed/built these themselves) as they are definitely beneficial. Working in motorsports now I would never rely on any other method of measuring speed - like the mentioned wheel speed times tyre circumference (tyre radii change with speed, pressure, camber, load etc.). You always want to have at least some reference data with an optical sensor.
However, good optical sensors may be expensive/bulky/heavy. Back in my time in FSAE we rented an optical sensor to gather data on the test track to improve the estimation and simulation models, but we also did not have 4WD
@@float32encoders are used why would you use an optical sensor?
SCHOKOOOOOOOLADE!!!
Every fucking morning
Ich nehme eine!
die am besten Süßigkeit
😂😂😂
Wir sind fahrende Schokoladenverkäufer :D
80 students in aero alone is insane
We had around 60 students in total to win FSG and FSE in the combustion class in 22, about 10 of them where in aero. So that feels like too many cooks making a soup to me.
defense contracting stuff likes people who know about aero
You need to view OBR like a degree course. 80 students in a class about motorsport aero isn't that bad. It just so happens that the formula student car is the umbrella that the lecturers use.
80 students on the entire car would already be insane for most teams.
In OBR we always end up having 5 servo concepts and discarding 4 of them because so many students are working on aero
Formula SAE US student here. It's very important to note that rules between the US, UK, and Germany will all have the same outline, but some very critical differences. Germany allows a lot more technology than the US or UK, mainly noting they are allowed to have powered ground effect (to a certain extent). It's a big reason why you see german teams or german competition produce world record times in dynamic events. To add on to the active suspension, it is good but when checking ground clearance you must do it at the lowest position so you can use it to ride lower.
As a former FSAE driver and vehicle dynamics control engineer I can say that while agility is exceptional, the technology progress of EV category in last 10 years is astonishing. I have driven models from 2012-2023 (only few models on competitions). It went from a simple single motor RWD to nowadays AWD, full aeropacket, torque vectoring, decoupled modes suspension and torque vectoring system. Nowadays the powered ground effect (aka few kW of fans sucking air from undertray) is a next big innovation getting in.
Just to quickly summarize how the main progress was cca.
single motor RWD -> twin motor RWD -> regeneration -> Aeropacket -> AWD -> Torque vectoring -> ? Powered ground effect ?
I must say, the first thing I thought when I saw these cars and their insane need for downforce and the relative lack of regulations is: why not use a fan to suck the car to the ground. You could even see the next possible step is a dynamic powered ground effect, where it is enabled only to provide grip the moments it is needed.
@@Eikenhorstwe have been using what you referred to as "dynamic" powerground at Rennteam Stuttgart (the one and only combustion Rennteam!) already in 2021 and 2023. The Fan power was mainly controlled over speed (with some other inputs such as DRS and brake pressure) to be more efficient and get the aerobalance spot on.
We also had active front wing flaps working alongside the fans.
It was really fun to setup the car with all these active systems!
@@Eikenhorst formula student is actually regulated quite reasonably. Ground effect powered device was forbidden for many years
I think FSG will disallow PGE sa they did with active susp
@Driver61 Nice thumbnail image, where did you get that image from? I happen to be the original photographer
@Driver61 Explain
I'm both slightly upset you need to ask this question, and stoked for your work to get the obviously deserved exposure it deserves. Nice work
Read the description
In the description bruv
@@Yomotomen yeah maybe it wasn't there when I wrote the comment????????? Also do you ask for permission before doing something or not? There are sponsors paying money to have their name on the car
Currently we are at Formula Student Spain! Next week is FS Germany in Hockenheim
SCHOKOLADE
is it possible to by several vehicles
Used to be a Suspension guy in Formula Student for five years... Exhausting and challenging are perhaps the most fitting words to describe the experience :D
I used to make manifolds, pipes and mufflers, I also found it exhausting.... 😜
@@DJ_Sycottic lol I would have done more powertrain stuff too, but the first car I worked on was the last Combustion car in the Team, all the following were electric. Wich left us mechanical engineering students basically with chassis (I made chassis for 2 cars), suspension (I made suspensions for 4 cars) and Aero (I hate Aero 🤣).
We love the video! 💙
Will you be joining us to the biggest Formula Student competition this year in Germany? FSG will take place from 12 - 18 August. We would love to show you around!
ahoo💙
I heard these cars even do 75m in less than 3 seconds
@@sjoerdgroot6338I also heard they have sponsors who pay money to have their name on their car, but I must be wrong
I was part of FSAE back in India and then in USA, working with FSAE gave me soo much understanding of not just designing but also how to talk to vendors sponsors etc.... I was happy to be a part of FSG2014
Delft has their own tires (from Apollo Tires), Zurich designs their own motors if i am not mistaken.
woahhhhhh dudeee
ok theses cars are 100000x more interesting than any f1 can in the past 10 years
would love to see a arial atom with some of the turning tech u mentioned
Look at BAJA SAE races. They are super interesting and have wheel to wheel racing during competitions.
The most fun competition!!! I used to be a Baja Sae Driver... Good old times... The dinamic tests are awesome too specially the suspension one... So many gnarly obstacles with a small car
The only criticism of this is that OBR have SO much more resource, support and budget than pretty much any other university in the UK because they have a motorsports degree course. It’s like a Works team competing against amateurs in many cases which I think (as a professional engineer and potential employer) doesn’t make for fair competition. The ingenuity, resourcefulness, and teamwork from other teams is, in many ways, far more impressive. It’s OK if you’re up against some of the German teams (supported and sponsored by Mercedes and Porsche etc) but not against some of the small teams.
Don't worry, OBR have never come 1st yet ;) ... actually I think this is just sad more than anything else. This video highlights their massive resources, perfect testing track etc etc, and for all the money in the world, they still haven't perfected winning. But, maybe their entire team has a different ethos, and focus more on the degrees.... which in my opinion will never give the best learning!
@@CaramelCrispiesthe reason is because we have so many new members every year and so much bureaucracy and no proper direction, the team is treated more so as a program for students to get experience in different aspects of design, manufacturing and running a race car rather than a focused race team with stable membership
@@EmmieFloding This is exactly what happened when I was there a few years ago. Before that, I was running another team for 5 years
They are a joke. Only got 19th place at FS Czech and I don't think they would get anywhere close to top 20 at FSG.
Can they race upside down?
what ever happened to that project?
In theory, these cars make their weight in downforce at around 100km/h, slightly below their top speed, so it should be possible, although nobody tried yet.
(except Trinity College Dublin this year at FSUK, but that didn't go well xD th-cam.com/video/nbcPWLlHMnU/w-d-xo.html
@@Andrew_8811 This is untrue. I work in Revolve NTNU from NTNU Trondheim, where our car weighs 163kg (1600 N). With a top speed of 33 m/s and a validated ClA of 5,2 we generate 3400N of downforce which far supersedes the weight
That was a rhetorical question to tease about the failed project.
@@TheSateef Money money money.
Why did you remove the sponsors of Delft's car in the thumbnail?
Have you asked them if you are allowed to do that?
Member of the team here. They did not ask us.
One thing you didn't get into (I am assuming its because there is currently no British team) is the driverless / autonomous parts of the European competitions. So if you want to have a look at even smarter cars, you might have to make a trip to Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Estonia or Norway
He’s a racing driver - 90% of this channel is about race cars - it’s got nothing to do with him being British, it’s that autonomous cars are just not that interesting to his audience.
80 people just for areo is crazy. thats a whole team worth of man power
I think so too. I'm part of an FSAE team in Japan, and we have only 20 members.
Did this guy really photoshop the sponsors out of the thumbnail 💀 Sponsors are how these teams can afford to do what they do!
9:30 Greetings from Eindhoven, Love that you used one of my pictures. I was so hyped when it appeared on screen hahaha
Being a German usually watched this channel in it's native language. Suddenly there is German narrator. The translation and the quality is so bad, it hurts.
You can turn it off in the settings
Wow
3 commercials during video...
Great job
Sponsorblock?
If it’s a problem, get ublock origin, or buy premium, otherwise, shut up
In my 3rd year at uni i've joined our formula student team. Was assigned to the powertrain team (before everyone went electric / single cylinder engine). We took a GSX-R600 engine and did all the auxiliary systems, overhauled it, turned it into a dry sump. and blew up an engine in the process 😅.
I did the manifolds, exhausts, fuel system, and some aero stuff (a 3rd year mech engineering student no less). We designed and built in like 8 months and started track tests as soon as possible.
we took part in a few races in and drove the s*** outta it. The events are wild, tones of students psyched on cars drinking heavily (in germany be german) next to a race track. an awesome experience.
the car, I'm happy to say ,kept driving for 2 years later as a test rig and was eventually turned to an autonomous vehicle
I am a former FSAEr from China fsec, now I am karting and also joined a chinese formula 4 team based in hong kong, FSAE is what brought me in, and thanks driver 61 for the fsae shoutout
I studied at brookes for 4 years and I’m telling you right now the cars are far more of a headache then they are made out in this video. it’s fun but a lot of the time you get 3rd year students doing nout and the first years doing 60% of all the nitty gritty work. you’re working through nights on certain days. a lot of the time you’re just thrown into the deep end rather than efficiently taught what to do. formula student sounds great but it’s such a fucking headache. Teaches you so much about people letting you down😂
also this video deeped the electronic tsc wayyy too much it was really not as advanced as this
This says more about brookes than it does about Formula Student btw .... I've not heard much about the inner workings of OBR, but this isn't surprising.
A lot of FSAE teams seem to be like so. In reality, near-graduating students work heap-tons more than newborn team members. Team management is crucial and a lot of teams lack of it. The workload is insane because of time constraints and astronomically high goals. Doing fab work is the good-and-easy way in for a member to dip into all aspects of the project while gauging if it's their thing or not. If fab work was a headache, either the team has something wrong or it's not your thing. FSAE ain't easy, and the video shows it sometimes. A lot of content takes immense amounts of time to explain and he skipped a lot of stuff (Team management, scheduling, FSAE rules, design priorities, remaining ICE projects, sponsorships, ...)
There's a video somewhere deep between those ads
Meh, the indicator makes them trivial to skip. Glad he’s able to make a living.
Was part of a baja sae team bc my college doesnt have a formula team, even thogh is a completelly different world, it is still cars and was one of the greatest times of my life. Also was able to win an electronics "best electronics" prize, felt so good to see mine and my teammates work being recognized!
0:13 Greetings from PRz Racing!
Amazing video! Thank you for sharing Formula Student with the world!
Great work! Definitely elevating the culture!
Amazing insight into Formula Student!
About 6 years ago I joined a Formula SAE team, and Scott, at that time I watched a ton of your videos and they inspired me to learn about vehicle design and racing. Overall you helped inspired me to design the first wings for our car and to lead the team as captain to create one of the best FSAE programs in the United States! It’s very cool to see full circle you creating videos about FSAE! Go UConn!
My friend was working on it at the school from Slovakia with budget of 50p and competing against Germans with budget more than 500 000 €
is it possible for me to buy vehicles or to donate a certain amount to the project in order to get a vehicle
I was at a baja SAE team in university... Not as fast but extremely fun and hard work... It was definitely the best thing i did in university, knowledge, competition, friends, blood sweat and tears... The endurance race at baja sae events are fkng awesome ... All cars in a rally circuit at the same time for 4 hours... Crashes, overtakes, jumps... It has it all
I was a product designer at PAC Baja team from Unesp Bauru - Brazil
I’m watching this at the FSCzech competition lol
Being a part of a formula SAE team would be an amazing opportunity
Almost as many in video sponsorship ads as LTT.
sponsor block for youtube.
@@SergioRatz Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Just like this segue to our sponsor
@@SergioRatz Been trying it now for long enough to realise that it seems absolute garbage to me. It's successfully prevented sponsored ads on 1 video and I've probably watched in excess of 50 that had in play sponsorships. If it works for you, that's awesome, but it's not working for me unfortunately.
Even LTT was only this egregious in their April Fools video. This is just sad
Well that is a great video explaining Formula Sudent. Thank you very much for this.
For people who like to drive a Formula Student car themselves, this is possible in Assetto Corsa in a car which is made by the MAD Formula team from Madrid, the same people who also build the real Formula Student car.
I’m a suspension lead for a uk team and it’s a lot desigining manufacturing and building while teaching new members and then also doing a degree but it’s all worth it
Happiness cannot be travelled to, owned, earned, worn or consumed. Happiness is the spiritual experience of living every minute with love, grace and gratitude.
Love FS - I’ve been there a couple of times with University of Glasgow - as a supporting dad. Loads of brilliant experience for students of all types. Of the students from U of G team I know, 1 is at Ferrari, 2 at Williams and 1 at Aston Martin F1
I participated in Formula Student in 2012 and 2013 with an E85 car with a CBR600RR engine. It was such a good experience!!! 100% recommended =D
Greetings from Global Formula Racing, thanks for covering FSAE / Formula Student content. Most people outside of our bubble don't know what is going on, while it is super interesting to see so many different approaches
Having worked in the aero department of a formula student team was some of the most fun i‘ve had so far.
I have been part of a Formula Student Team in Portugal too, building the race car it's like your baby, hard times and sleepless nights but in the end is all worthy!!!
I'm impressed that someone gives them the money and creates the parts for them. And about how to measure the car speed, use a camera that looks at the ground, and a laser! 🙂
The Texas A&M Formula IC team had a 200kg car this year, and it won 1st in acceleration!
I remember about 20 years ago i was at University of Hertfordshire for an awards thing and we got a tour. We saw some of the build of the car, materials testing, and the 4 post suspension testing rig. It was all very impressive, but looks so much more advanced now.
1:52 -- grimsel, my little baby 😍 (already 10 years old today)
I was one of the volunteers of Formula Student Germany and Austria, and a former participant of course.
This is one of the best videos explaining the series I've ever seen, very well done! Cheers!
I am the suspension teamlead at TU Dresden. If you want to come to Germany and take a look at our fully front to back decoupled system, we would be happy to have you.
I remember seeing the students at the University of Hawaii building one. They test it over at the Aloha stadium on the weekends in the parking lot. They race it with the SCCA Sports Car Club of America.
Watching this video as a break while working on vehicle dynamics simulations for my Formula Student team
I was the simulation engineer starting up the project for my university at the time. Spent a year helping develop it in total. Sometimes I still get approached by students about the subject and recently I saw that they are still using mostly what I designed. Such an awesome project.
I was at Formula Student/Sae from 2005-2008. Audi Finland was our team sponsor, It was funny being in the UK or in the States because other team did looked at our team car because of Audi’s logo😅 Formula Germany was a similar story, the Finnish team with Audi as a sponsor when German auto manufacturers did not sponsor any German teams
😊
i attended the first 3 Formula Student Competitions in the late 90s as part of Rochester Institute of Technology's entry. We won in 1999. What a great experience to do Formula SAE/ Formula Student. The cars are truly advanced and at the cutting edge, primarily due to open rules on the tech side....
Finally i got the answer to why the wings have changed their mounts from below to above!
These are the rules I wish we could see in real Formula 1. Just make the car fit into a certain dimension box and go from there
My aero/composites team was 10-15 people or so. Placed 13th at Michigan, pretty proud of that team and car. Definitely the most aero-advanced of all the car's predecessors. biggest challenge was designing a front wing to balance out the insane load from the wing and undertray.
It's cool to see a former member (Adriano Schommer) of my team (Formula UFSM), whose name I see in several old team files, appearing in a video about Formula Student in the UK, which is basically a completely different universe when compared to FSAE Brasil, and seeing how far he has gone.
Especially because the competition was last week, were we got 4th place, running on 3 cylinders, and got to see some other old members.
I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on man unless they act.
My son was part of the Formula Student Team in his university here in Germany and therefore I had also some insights to the cars. Especially the accelaration is insane. Great video and thanks for it.
DTU, Aalborg and SDU in Denmark also race formula student
I have been chassis lead for my formula SAE (Canada) team for 2 years now and all I have to say is that this has been my hardest but most rewarding experience ! 100% recommend joining if you are an Eng major.
Great video, thanks for covering the competition! Greetings to all the student teams around the world :)
The first ever built electric 4 wheel drive Formula Student car we did in Zwickau, Germany, back in 2010 and 2011. WHZ Racing Team
Was apart of UTSA’s FSAE team a couple years ago. Was apart of the powertrain division and we tried to implement a business division to help with costs and r&d. Was an awesome way to get into the motorsports world and to see how complicated it really is. If you are interested in this field and ur university offers it, you HAVE to do this. I’ve heard Toyota wont even hire students that didn’t participate in the club since it show’s that you didn’t have enough interest to even look.
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?
Karting hurrah!
MV: “He moved under braking.”
GL: “I’m not going to get into a radio fight with the other teams, Max. We’ll let the stewards do their thing. It’s childish on the radio, childish.”
The fact I went to Silverstone on the day of that competition is crazy
I know but one freedom and that is the freedom of the mind.
The bottom of an upside down wing, generates more downforce.* The side of a wing that is falling away from the streamline of the free-stream air, produces the majority of the downforce.
My greatest wish in life is to be able to drive these Formula Student cars on the road. Of course, a street-legal version.
Im following fsae since my childhood and now im a high school student but i have learnt a lot about fsae aerodynamics composites and manufacturing i will be going to college next year and in very first week im gonna join its fsae team
Good luck to all my fellow students currently beeing sleep deprived during the event season! Never give up and be prepared for scrutineering!
Speeking from the experience of five years and 13 events.
I kinda miss it...
Our car weighs 157kg, with a full aero package.
Just got back from Formula Student Spain, really fun event! 🎉
She lived on Monkey Jungle Road and that seemed to explain all of her strangeness.
the issue with formula student is it was meant to be a fun and affordable way for students to compete and learn about development. but now many teams are getting literal millions in funding from company partners, getting external help from people in industry, access to soft/hardware that most university teams dont have access to. The german team that won last year used F1 tech and spent millions on their car. its completely lost touch with what it was meant to be and is now just a case of being full time jobs in a full fledge company.
I seen a whole row of formula student teams with cars on display and even simulators at the aus gp
It took me too long to realize that the ceiling hadn't been painted to look like the sky.
The aero looks really impressive, but in reality at the UK competition this year, one of the fastest cars had no aero
This was so informative and entertaining, thank you!
Should talk about Baja SAE it’s this but single seater off-road vehicles.
Our local universities bring their formula cars to our autocross events, usually cool to see.
Little note, top teams at FSG were around 170/180 kg
250 is BAD. our car is at 209 with a steel tube chassis with aero as well.
Im going to be joining the Oxford Brookes racing team this coming September as I complete my Masters in Motorsport engineering, I cannot wait!!!! 🏎️
I was part of an FS team for 3 years, the experience was amazing and I got a prestigiouus job as an engineer thanks to it. But this is above all a community of like minded people, with camaraderie being shown across every day of every event! We've even had a member of a rival team, in the same class spend the night in our bay, so we could get our electrics working! Most data is shared freely and we all work to make each other better! Oh let's not forget the after parties, god how much do i miss the flockey ball!
I look back fondly on my time in FSAE. Great way to learn and play with cool tech.
Oh wow my uni also got formular student clubs i think will consider joing in robotics now thanks!
God, I miss FSAE so much!
Those ones were happy days!
He appeared to be confusingly perplexed.
9:00 how about adding wheels that are sized 1/20 the actual wheels and have similar suspension and steering, only difference being they are unpowered, and thus not vulnerable to spinning uncontrollably, then use computers to calculate an estimate to what the wheels should be behaving like. One huge problem with this is miniscule uneven road surfaces which will now be 20 times bigger and get the estimate farther from ideal.
Should have mentioned the self driving part. I have designed the barking system for my team and integrated both normal brakes aswell as an emergyncy brake for the driverless. Its a lot of work to make a car drive on its own
At this rate the Next title is gonna be something like “Advanced F1”
F1 forbids say ¾+ of the innovations tried that work , so not terribly surprising better is possible.