Nice job! I graduated UPT Nov '76 at Laughlin and came back to ATC in Jul '79 in the T-38 at Williams. I felt that I never had any problem understanding the significance of the varying buffets and sink rates, but I know it was a problem because we lost one of my USAFA classmates and his student in the final turn while I was at Willy. After 3 years at there, I continued to fly the T-38 (and continued my aviation education) while flying U-2s at Beale. Thirty-eight years and 15,000+ hours later, the T-38 is the only plane I miss flying. I'm subscribed - keep up the good work!
What an instructor you are Sir. I'm a former AF pilot/ flight safety officer from Argentina. I know pretty well the last T 38 crash while Flying a circling to Talahasi Ap. I happened to ask one of our exchange pilots who flew for two years at Columbus as a T38 IP. He shared with me the same hinsight as you did explain in this great instructional video ! Thanks.
@@threesin7107 I hope he's the guy You've met His call sign is Pulqui. He's the son of the our first M V Dagger ( Israeli version of the Mirage III ) killed in action during the Malvinas War in 1982.
At Reese AFB ‘78-‘79. I believe we had a non-graded ride in T-38. I have often used that lesson in my discussions with my airline students. If memory serves, a T-38 rudder with gear up can deflect +/- 6 degrees and with gear down rudder can deflect +/- 30 degrees. So, this was demonstrated at a safe altitude. Gear up, no problem, slow roll. Gear down, feed in rudder, when it rolls, it’s over, snap! While I was in Tweets, we lost a T-38 student in final turn. Bobo emphasizes sink rate and barely mentioned rudder. He even mentioned “tap” bottom rudder if too tight to save the turn to final. In my opinion, bottom rudder is the killer, at least for a student. I incorporated rudder awareness into my airline instruction, especially at high angle of attack. I’m not an aerodynamics whiz but I tried to get students to imagine where their roll authority was and that it moves from ailerons towards rudder as angle of attack increases until crossover angle of attack where rudder has more authority than ailerons. There were a couple of Boing 737 stuck rudder crashes which are very interesting reads. In, summary, as a guy who made it through UPT, but didn’t necessarily shine, it was sufficient for me to just not mess with bottom rudder in final turn. Bobo, I enjoy your talks about T-38. I’m thankful I went through UPT when all got to fly it. I went on to C-7 Caribou and wonderful career in C-130s , concurrently as an airline pilot and instructor.
Great comments! You are spot on with the '38 rudder limits, gear up and gear down. And it will 'snap' if you over controlled vs it! What I taught with respect to using the rudder was to use 'pressure' vs. input. Eg. balance rudder application with pressure on the opposite rudder to control the amount of deflection that you wanted...rather than just cramming in a boot-load of rudder!
You are right Sir , let me share part of EXECUTIVE SUMMARY UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION T-38C, T/N 65-0395 & T/N 67-4590 VANCE AIR FORCE BASE, OKLAHOMA 21 NOVEMBER 2019 "On 21 November 2019, two T-38C Talon aircraft collided during an attempted formation landing at Vance. During the landing sequence, the mishap student pilot (MSP) prematurely initiated an aerobrake immediately after the Mishap Acft 1 ( MA1) initially touched down on the left of the RWY, causing the main wheels to lose contact with the runway surface. Almost simultaneously, MSP applied and held right rudder in an attempt to steer the acft away from the left edge of the runway. MSP use of rudder under these conditions--airborne, configured for landing and at an increased angle of attack--caused the MA1 to roll and yaw to the right and collide with the Mishap Acft 2
I’ve been enjoying your videos. I went through UPT in 1972 at Webb. These videos bring back a lot of memories of one of my most enjoyable years. I had a brand new IP in the T38. He was still a second Lieutenant and I was his first student. He was the best instructor and my respect for him was very high. I also thought of him as a friend. Last year I tracked him down and had a nice long conversation which was very nice. His name was one of those which used every letter in the alphabet. He was known as, Lt Alphabet. Real name, Madejczyk.
So nice to hear. I too, tracked down my '38 IP to talk with him, and thank him again for being my IP. A great deal of work that year, for a great career!
I don't know if you will see this comment, but the stall sortie still exists to this day in 2024. I am the chief of stan eval (and a stall instructor) for a pilot training squadron in the T-38, and we still have a stall sortie currency for every instructor pilot. The scenarios you described are very similar to what is demonstrated today. Very cool to see the origin story.
What do you think about the fairly recent Vance formation landing that collided upon landing and killed instructor and student ? Student's Mom demanded the Air Force stop that stuff !! Of course they stopped that training. Formation landing in T 38's.
As you might imagine, I do have some thoughts on the subject here... I am working on how I "word" them to where I don't piss off too many folks! LOL! Video coming soon...
One of the obj’s for the IFF AH-1 and F-1 thru F-4 syllabus rides. Landing currency, check-in sharply on time dry to taxi, form flight, and to pull G’s…get a feel for the AT-38B.
Private pilots and general aviation could learn a lot from this. I’m not a fan of circling approaches. I would prefer to fly the whole pattern at pattern altitude until after turning final. This way I always have sufficient altitude to recover from an inadvertent spin at every turn. This doesn’t mean flying a huge pattern. Except for perhaps a slightly longer final approach. That’s my take on this.
Nice job! I graduated UPT Nov '76 at Laughlin and came back to ATC in Jul '79 in the T-38 at Williams. I felt that I never had any problem understanding the significance of the varying buffets and sink rates, but I know it was a problem because we lost one of my USAFA classmates and his student in the final turn while I was at Willy. After 3 years at there, I continued to fly the T-38 (and continued my aviation education) while flying U-2s at Beale. Thirty-eight years and 15,000+ hours later, the T-38 is the only plane I miss flying. I'm subscribed - keep up the good work!
Is the U 2 interesting to fly ?? Up high !!!!
No doubt we know a few folks from Willi. John (Dobie) Gillis, Darwin, Mike Gould, for openers...
Nicely done
What an instructor you are Sir. I'm a former AF pilot/ flight safety officer from Argentina. I know pretty well the last T 38 crash while Flying a circling to Talahasi Ap. I happened to ask one of our exchange pilots who flew for two years at Columbus as a T38 IP. He shared with me the same hinsight as you did explain in this great instructional video ! Thanks.
Thank you. I think I may have met the exchange pilot a few years ago at a friend's retirement. Great guy!
@@threesin7107 I hope he's the guy You've met
His call sign is Pulqui. He's the son of the our first M V Dagger ( Israeli version of the Mirage III ) killed in action during the Malvinas War in 1982.
At Reese AFB ‘78-‘79. I believe we had a non-graded ride in T-38. I have often used that lesson in my discussions with my airline students. If memory serves, a T-38 rudder with gear up can deflect +/- 6 degrees and with gear down rudder can deflect +/- 30 degrees. So, this was demonstrated at a safe altitude. Gear up, no problem, slow roll. Gear down, feed in rudder, when it rolls, it’s over, snap! While I was in Tweets, we lost a T-38 student in final turn. Bobo emphasizes sink rate and barely mentioned rudder. He even mentioned “tap” bottom rudder if too tight to save the turn to final. In my opinion, bottom rudder is the killer, at least for a student. I incorporated rudder awareness into my airline instruction, especially at high angle of attack. I’m not an aerodynamics whiz but I tried to get students to imagine where their roll authority was and that it moves from ailerons
towards rudder as angle of attack increases until crossover angle of attack where rudder has more authority than ailerons. There were a couple of Boing 737 stuck rudder crashes which are very interesting reads.
In, summary, as a guy who made it through UPT, but didn’t necessarily shine, it was sufficient for me to just not mess with bottom rudder in final turn.
Bobo, I enjoy your talks about T-38. I’m thankful I went through UPT when all got to fly it. I went on to C-7 Caribou and wonderful career in C-130s , concurrently as an airline pilot and instructor.
Great comments! You are spot on with the '38 rudder limits, gear up and gear down. And it will 'snap' if you over controlled vs it! What I taught with respect to using the rudder was to use 'pressure' vs. input. Eg. balance rudder application with pressure on the opposite rudder to control the amount of deflection that you wanted...rather than just cramming in a boot-load of rudder!
You are right Sir , let me share part of EXECUTIVE SUMMARY UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION T-38C, T/N 65-0395 & T/N 67-4590 VANCE AIR FORCE BASE, OKLAHOMA 21 NOVEMBER 2019 "On 21 November 2019, two T-38C Talon aircraft collided during an attempted formation landing at Vance. During the landing sequence, the mishap student pilot (MSP) prematurely initiated an aerobrake immediately after the Mishap Acft 1 ( MA1) initially touched down on the left of the RWY, causing the main wheels to lose contact with the runway surface. Almost simultaneously, MSP applied and held right rudder in an attempt to steer the acft away from the left edge of the runway. MSP use of rudder under these conditions--airborne, configured for landing and at an increased angle of attack--caused the MA1 to roll and yaw to the right and collide with the Mishap Acft 2
I’ve been enjoying your videos. I went through UPT in 1972 at Webb. These videos bring back a lot of memories of one of my most enjoyable years. I had a brand new IP in the T38. He was still a second Lieutenant and I was his first student. He was the best instructor and my respect for him was very high. I also thought of him as a friend. Last year I tracked him down and had a nice long conversation which was very nice. His name was one of those which used every letter in the alphabet. He was known as, Lt Alphabet. Real name, Madejczyk.
So nice to hear. I too, tracked down my '38 IP to talk with him, and thank him again for being my IP. A great deal of work that year, for a great career!
Well done Sir!🫡
Thank you!
I don't know if you will see this comment, but the stall sortie still exists to this day in 2024. I am the chief of stan eval (and a stall instructor) for a pilot training squadron in the T-38, and we still have a stall sortie currency for every instructor pilot. The scenarios you described are very similar to what is demonstrated today. Very cool to see the origin story.
Thank you, great to hear! I will be back on the channel soon!
Thank you! I appreciate your comments here. I'll be back on the channel soon!
Outstanding, sir!
What do you think about the fairly recent Vance formation landing that collided upon landing and killed instructor and student ? Student's Mom demanded the Air Force stop that stuff !! Of course they stopped that training. Formation landing in T 38's.
As you might imagine, I do have some thoughts on the subject here... I am working on how I "word" them to where I don't piss off too many folks! LOL! Video coming soon...
One of the obj’s for the IFF AH-1 and F-1 thru F-4 syllabus rides. Landing currency, check-in sharply on time dry to taxi, form flight, and to pull G’s…get a feel for the AT-38B.
Private pilots and general aviation could learn a lot from this. I’m not a fan of circling approaches. I would prefer to fly the whole pattern at pattern altitude until after turning final. This way I always have sufficient altitude to recover from an inadvertent spin at every turn. This doesn’t mean flying a huge pattern. Except for perhaps a slightly longer final approach. That’s my take on this.
Thank you!
Or people could do their primary training in gliders and learn coordinated flight and proper aircraft control before moving to spamcans.