What is better: Entry level vs flagship model
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- It is a debate that will plague the fountain pen community forever! Let me know what you think in the comments down below!
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I'm here for the rambling 😊 thank you Carrie for your informed opinion 👍
I was buying cheap pens like Kaweco or Gravitas, but then accidentally, I bought Pilot Custom 823 and realized how superior it is to all other pens. Now I have 823, 743, and Capless. I consider my collection finished and I just don't want any other pens
I'm having the exact opposite experience.
Hi. How do you accidently buy a 823? 🤣🤗 Cheers from Australia.🦘
@@johntaylor8817 I bought Asvine V126, which is a great pen, BTW. I liked it a lot, and then I started looking at the source of that design, which was 823. I read a lot of good reviews and decided to try it out.
I went Lamy, Kaweco sport classic, TWSBI rose gold II, Kaweco piston sport. Then I got into vintage waterman pens. Now I’m dipping my toes into restoring them.
I believe the biggest advantage of the M series is that you can unscrew the nib section to clean the pen. That makes it as easy to clean as a cartridge converter. Second, the main difference between the 200/205 and the 400/405 is the nib gets upgraded to gold. Now, here's the advantage of having plastic insides: if that piston breaks, you can still use it as an eyedropper without fear of corroding the metal, which can contaminate the ink. And that's one reason I prefer cartridge/convertors. If the cartridge breaks, you just get a new one for $5 tops. If the piston or vacuum mechanism breaks, at best it's time to use the warranty and get it repaired, assuming they can do so. Also, one of the joys of fountain pens is changing inks (even with the bother of more than twice a year cleaning). So I like the smaller ink capacity, although I understand there's no law that says you have to fill the pen completely, I tend to forget that. Still, I would recommend playing around with a bunch of affordable pens to get a better idea of what you like, especially when even the biggest distinct upgrade, namely from a steel nib to gold, might not change much for you. A lot of times you're paying for esthetics. I did that with the Glaucon which was a bargain for the sheer art of that. But in terms of sheer writing, discovering which filling system or nibs you prefer, you get more bang for you buck on affordable models. This is especially so if you do your research. TH-cam is great for that. And Goulet has some excellent 101 learning videos. But one of the great pleasures is going through Pens and Tea's past videos for a very informative and entertaining time. We long time fans live for that wonderful rambling.
Kerry, thanks for your comments, as always. I came to the Pelikan M200 from a different direction. It was recommended by the urban sketcher Teoh Y Chie, and I have used it for some time for drawing and really found it to be a joy to use, not at all scratchy, very smooth. I also am a small woman with small hands, so the smaller size doesn't bother me. Different strokes for different folks, as you point out.
*Teoh Yi Chie
Thanks Kerry for the comparison. Would be awesome if this video is part 1 of a series where you compare more brands.
And keep on rambling, that's what we're here for!
Keep on rambling, that is why I stay here 😉
If I just wanted the dry facts on a pen I'd read a spec sheet instead.
I was extremely lucky to have been in a position to buy a Pelikan M1000 (as a pensioner) and I must say it did take a bit to get used to it and I like a girthy pen even though I have small hands. I think it's a little heavier than the M800. I was concerned and feeling nauseous that I had made a mistake in buying it originally. However on my 2nd long writing session I got in the groove, and really fell in love. It's the only pen I've ever purchased that I was just not sure about originally.
*Rolls a D20 for universe offering you an M1000… rolls high 🎉
Thanks, Carrie! After using my TWSBI Eco I'm not very sold on expensive pens. Even with an EF nib it's still a very smooth writer. I bought my Pilot 912 just to get the posting nib and I love it as well. It writes smoother than I thought that it would. And my Lamy with the F nib is a really smooth writer. People can get some great smooth writing pens without spending a small fortune!
I appreciate your wacky rambling sense of humor. I am glad you have the courage to be you. Sing, talk to yourself, rock on with your bad self. Thanks for the vids. I enjoy them. Congrats on home ownership.
I love your rambles. 😊
Btw I also love your new bookshelf backround.
I’m right there with you on lower level Pilots vs lower level Pelikans. For anyone who wants a premium Pelikan experience around the price of an M200, seek out used Pelikans from the 50s/60s, you can get them often in great condition with a 14k nib that flexes! If you must have a modern Pelikan , given the price compression between the 200/400 and 800, it’s worth saving up for an 800 or finding a used one that’s from the last twenty years.
Pilot’s $30-$50 pens are so good that I prefer them over some of their gold nib pens, seriously. The value for money on pens like the Prera are among the best in the whole industry.
I can hear the difference in the sound when you hold it vs the shirt. I can hear it when you hold it better, but the shirt works fine.
I heard the construction as well, but I don’t think it was as bad as you thought it was :)
I never really bought many of the lower budget pens. I am lucky enough to have a pen group I spend time with every month. So I can try out so many different types of pen bodies, nibs, see different finishes! I’ve been very lucky.
I ended up skipping a lot of the “starter” pens and jumping right to the ones I loved. It was so nice to be able to borrow and try so many pens before a big purchase.
I think this mic position sounds better than the close-holding (which sometimes overloads and picks up mouth noise), but you do you! I will listen either way. Thank you for discussing the Pelikan line because I've been curious about these.
I bought the m400 white tortoiseshell as my first gold nib. I was and still am so disappointed in it! It is too small, nib is scratchy, the fine nib writes like a medium, and many of my $10 pens give me a better writing experience!
It's kinda like a roulette wheel...I have bought a m405 replacement nib for a m205 to see the difference between the steel and gold...I got lucky and both are soft and smooth but you can tell them apart with your eyes closed.
Then I bought the sliver/white m405 and asked for a different non than they had left in stock. The trailer surprised me and put a m605 18k nib on it at least 21+year old and it's an amazingly good nib, but so was my new 14k m605. I think quality control at pelikan is way better from what I have experienced than other "European" bands. I'm looking at you Italy
NICE TO KNOW I'M PART OF UR 5% VIEWERS !
I REALLY ENJOY EVERYTIME U SAY "DYNAMITE !", IT FEELS LIKE IT !
I have Pelikan M20X's in EF that write lovely and wet, but two that are dry and scratchy. I have Pelikan M80X's in EF that write lovely and wet, but also one that basically doesn't write at all. If I turn it so the nib is sideways I can find a spot that will write. Got to take a closer look at that nib or get someone to help me. I haven't done any kind of nib tuning before.
I have a green 205 that I received as a gift and that I love it. The nib is a medium. So smooth. One of my favorite pens. I have about 4 or 5 M800s and one M850 with a gold cap and F nib that I love too. The nib is so smooth for a F. Neither the 205 nor the 850 gave me any problems. Some of my other M800s didn’t start well and skipped out of the box. That’s why I always buy them from sellers whom I know will make the necessary adjustments to the nibs before sending them to me. Speaking of price, I bought all mine years ago when they were selling for $400 or even less. You mentioned the Jinhao 159. I have 20 or so if them, the old ones and the new ones. I venture to say that the new 159 is one of my top 5 pens of all time. The best of the best of all time is S.T Dupont’s large Orpheo. AAA++++
Thanks for all your videos Kerry. I probably misspelled your name. So sorry.
I used to love Pelikans.
For me, the green striped one was THE pen that I thought of when I had to imagine a fountain pen.
I remember saving up for a M200 and was so disappointed with how small it was and how different the swirl-pattern looked in real life from the pictures.
But it wrote well (enough).
Then I bought another M200 and it had a horrible nib! It was completely misaligned and just scratched the paper.
Then I bought another M200 and that one wrote okay, but nothing more than okay.
All my M200s have a Fine nib, none of them have the same line width.
I then saved up and got a M600, with a medium nib (my first gold nib!) and it wrote with a thick-medium line, but it had terrible babies bottoms.
And because I had never written with a gold nib, I thought that that was just what a gold nibs did.. (I later fixed it, but that's not the point)
Then, I finally got the green striped, fountain pen, another M600, but with a Extra Fine nib.
It wrote with an even thicker line than the medium nib!
I know you can get different nibs for your Pelikan (the nibs of the M200 an the M400 are interchangeable), but those nibs are freaking expensive!
I think Pelikans are really pretty, but their quality control is horrendous, especially for such an expensive (overpriced, dare I say it) fountain pen.
After that I have never even looked at another Pelikan fountain pen.
I have since learned that there are many "cheap" brands that do have decent quality control and write much better (in my opinion).
However, what I find really surprising, is that people are ofyen much more critical of "cheap" fountain pens (especially the Chinese brands), than the much more expensive Pelikans.
I think that Pelikan changing their striped barrels is going to be a bad idea, but I really like the look of those stripes, so I might be biased.
But maybe they will surprise me and come up with something new and interesting!?
But as long as they don't improve their nib quality an consistency, I am still not going to get one.
Construction noise isn't fun, but having a park as a neighbor might be pleasant. I've owned both pens you described here. The m200 was nice with some flex, but I gave it as a gift. The m800 was a very nice pen, but I ultimately sold it because I had other very nice pens (like the Pilot Custom 823 or the Lamy 2000) that I liked much better. I do own the m1000, and love its flex. I also own several vintage Pelikans which are a lot of fun.
I used to have lots of Pelikans, and my experiences are really mixed. My second pen was a Pelikan M200. I've also handled and owned a lot of the Pelikan Souverän. Overall, the finishing of the metal parts on the Souverän is somewhat better and cleaner. It's quite noticeable if you look very closely. I've seen more cases of plating loss on the M2xx and M1xx pens. On all the models except the M8xx and M10xx pens, Pelikan uses a snap in piston assembly. The piston mechanism is mostly identical across both the lower and higher end up to the M600. I've had pens where the piston mechanism popped or fell out. Pelikan fixes this by replacing the entire body of the piston mechanism so it will grip the inside of the barrel properly again. I believe it's a single use part. One of my gripes with the Souverän series is that they all have a trim ring on the grip section. It's not so common, but I have found several cases where the ring is corroded. Ink also often finds its way under the ring, and when you clean it, ink wicks out from under the ring as well. They also assemble all of these pens by gluing the grip section to the mouth of the barrel. Usually it does not happen, but on a few Pelikans, I've had the grip section come off, and Pelikan fixed this for me. Ink also usually collects in the space where the barrel and grip are glued together and you have to clean it out with an ultrasonic cleaner.
My favorite sized model was the M300 which is now discontinued. It was a baby piston filled pen. For me, the downfall of that pen was that the piston assembly has play in all the ones I've had, and the whole piston unit would rotate back and forth in the barrel even when the piston knob was snugged down all the way. I eventually got a baby-sized OMAS instead. It has no trim ring on the grip section and no play in the piston mechanism and is the exact same size. Overall, I've been liking this a whole lot more. I also have the Aurora Optima Mini which is another baby piston filler that has been serving me well.
If I were to choose, I'd rather have a Pelikan with the body of the M200 so I don't have the grip section trim ring, the finishing of the Souverän pens, and a screw in piston mechanism like the M8xx or M10xx. So, what did I get? A TWSBI Eco with a custom nib. I have a lot of them, all with custom nibs. Mine are all nice, wet writers and many of them have custom ground italic nibs. When I was a little girl, I got my M200 for $50 with my birthday money. M200s cost crazy money now. Mine was dark transparent green with gold trim and a fine nib. I've also had the M425.
When it comes to cartridge fillers, Pelikans have shorter and smaller diameter cartridge connectors. If you are going to use a converter, you need to grab a fresh one that hasn't been used in any other pen. Same for cartridges. They don't retain the converters well, and I've had grip sections fall into the ink bottle this way.
Right now my only Pelikan is the Twist Shine Mystic. I keep a bunch of cartridges that I have only used in it and refill those. It's a really pretty pen, and I love mine. The gold and steel Pelikan nibs for the piston fillers are finished differently. The nibs for the Pelikano and Twist are finished yet another way and the sizes are different. My Twist writes very well.
I do use tons and tons of Pelikan inks, the regular 4001 series is my favorite. The only one I don't use is the Brilliant Red. It's Allura Red based and it really stains aggressively and can cause corrosion. I've consistently found it to cause gold plating to peel from steel nibs, cause gold nibs to darken, and create pitting on steel nibs. Most inks with this dye will do this including Diamine Hope Pink and Diamine Orange. It also forms crusts and particles. Anyway, aside from that one Pelikan ink, I pretty much use all their 4001 colors, Pelikan Violet is a real favorite for me and I use tons and tons of the Royal Blue
The reason I don't have a nice Pelikan is because when I tested them I had a strong preference for the 800 size. My budget just can't handle that. I have fun with my Pelikan Twist. Budget friendly AND it fits my (large for a woman) hands.
I'm the same with Sailors. Started of with the slims, tried a standard and fell in love, I can only imagine the kop.
I got a good deal on M200 and was really disappointed on how small it was and the nib was really scratchy. So to me for the price, I wouldn't waste my money because there are so many other pens you can buy for $200 that are so much better.
Nice discussion about the entry level souveran vs the penultimate model. I'm actually saving my pennies for one in between. Hoping to pick up a Glauco Cambon edition M600. That pen is just gorgeous.
I thought the same before I saw it in a stationary store. Without strong artificial light, Glauco Canbon was pretty, but not great.
Interesting. Thanks for that input. Guess I had better check that one out in person before dropping $$$ on it. Thanks again!
@@ChristopherMay I wonder what you will say :)
I have the M205 and an M800. Although the 205 is small, the steel nib works wonderfully. The 800 fits my hand better and the nib is very smooth.
I do wish they would offer a steel nib for the 800. They have the ability to make this pen more affordable and still write extremely well.
I have had a M600 made in W. Germany a long time ago. It is one of my go-to pens and I love it. It works perfectly every time and all the time. I am considering buying an M1000 limited edition Renaissance Brown as my next Pelikan. Haven't totally committed to this purchase yet as it is quite expensive, but I really like the looks of the pen.
Thank you Carrie for a beautiful video. Have a good week-end
I have had a green M800 since 1991/92. It’s a bit different than the later models as it has a 14k nib. I love this pen, it is a big large for me, but it’s a gorgeous semi flex medium nib. It’s my signature pen for checks or documents. I have a blue M400 OM from about 1995. It’s a brilliant nib. I’m putting Golden Lapis in it the next time it’s in the rotation. The newer versions are still nice, but a bit stiffer and glassier than the older versions. I think the M1000 is beautiful, but definitely too large for me. However, I wouldn’t turn down a raden version.😍
I love my Pilot Metro, I have that same one. A Lamy Al-Star is the most expensive pen I currently own, maybe one day I'll get a fancier pen.
If you're ever considering M1000, do check out the new M1000 in Renaissance Brown. Absolutely gorgeous.
I purchased the M205, but didn't know a $200+ pen would be so small. I won't buy Pelikan again until I afford a bigger pen.
I have the M405, which is the gold nib upgrade to the M200. It's pretty much the same size as the Sailor Pro Gear Slims, which I also love but very different experience. And I adore my M600 - the special edition Glauco Cambon. I'm not sure I'd need something as big as the M1000.
The move away from the translucent body is why I'll be looking for a used one when I'm ready to get a green one.. either an M600 or M800.
Thank you for another informative and entertaining video. The construction noise was not a big distraction but did make me curious what all was going on so what about adding a weekly construction update as an opener? The mic on pen does sound better but both setups are understandable. Have you considered getting a studio style microphone? Most offer direction sound isolation that would help with outside noise.
I agree with you on the 805 pen size and nib size. 1000 pen size would better if you can comfortably grip a volley ball one handed lol.
Sounds better this way, IMHO
Don't intend to acquire any Pelikans, although I have seen them in the wild at pen shows and written with them, too. It's all about size & feel with your writing hand. For me, the sweet spot is M600/605 & M800/805 series. My writing is 7.5/10, so if things are aligned, I would pull the trigger. Last thing you need is being self-conscious about your handwriting, and buying an expensive pen, only to look back at what you wrote, and wonder why you bought it.
The value proposition of some of the gold Pilots is so much better in general. It’s a bit painful to admit it, but the value proposition of a gold nib pen that’s twice as much (or more) as its little brother entry level gold nib… just really isn’t there in many cases.
Consider the value levels of the various Pilots and Parkers. Their lower cost gold nib pens are often extraordinary, even when compared to someone else’s $1000 dollar offerings. Sure, gold trim is nice and all, but in the end, it’s about the smoothness and feel of the writing experience, and how the pen feels in your hand. Using that logic, a pen like the Pilot E95s soars far above the competition.
You get the quality, the smooth experience, and a glamorous looking pen - without breaking the bank.
I am new to the pen world, but I *VERY QUICKLY* ran into what I consider to be the ultimate pen question to anchor many of your cost and quality issues on: *Can you write a novel with it?* If a pen feels good for one page, but starts to wear after five pages, you might not have the pen you really are gonna feel good about spending $200 or more on…
(Yes, I decided to write a novel for my own personal pleasure, and very quickly “crashed” out of some otherwise “nice” pens…)
Of my two Pelikan pens (M200 & M205) both write great, with the M200 a bit more wetter than the M205.
I'm kinda all over the board on this question.
Of my top fav's, I have two Platinum 3776's (Chartres Bleu, Laurel Green), two Pilot Custom 74's ( Teal, and Merlot), and two Jinhao x159's (dark blue and wine). And yes I do have a Pelikan M200 and a M205, both Pelikans are used for taking notes in school or jotting notes in a coffee shop.
When I am asked about a good entry level pen, I respond with three factors… the price, the fit with one's hand, and visual appearance (does it make your heart go pitty-pat, or makes you want to barf.
I like the "The Price Is Right" mic setup 😄
I am here for the Rambling!!!.....I recently bought what I thought was my grail pen....a Pilot 823....and I guess I was expecting a big jump up in the feeling of writing.....but, while the 823 was really really nice, my Diplomat steel nibs wrote just as well....even my $30.00 Hongdian N12 writes almost as well as the 823....... Could it be I am just not a gold nib fan? In any case, I will probably sell the 823.
for entry level try the Pelikan Twist Fountain Pen - about $26 USD (or £10 in real money ;-). Good writer.
Hello and Thank you for such an informative video! I do not own a Pelikan YET!!! I have my eye on the M600 Blue/Gold M - hard to find! I NEED some type of an ink window - or be able to remove the barrell to verify the amount of ink in the pen. Especially for long writing sessions. If they remove this very helpful tool, I’m not sure I’m willing to pay a premium price when I can put that money into another brand, but that is probably more of a confidence issue as well. Aside from all that - I leaped and cheered like a sports fan when you compared the M200 to the houndstooth metropolitan! My first baby!!! 😍. But truly a workhorse! Thanks again for educating me on the Pelikan brand, I can’t wait to purchase one. OH BTW - any idea what the 2024 pen of the year will be since blue lapis is the ink of the year???? I’m certain that ink will match very well with the blue/gold M600! 😆.
For me, the grip of the m200 is a bit small and I have small fingers 😅
After buying a few $100 plus fountain pens, I realized I need to improve my handwriting before I buy a new pen. 😂
Hi! How would you « compare » Benu Euphoria to the Pelikan M200? Thanks for your input!
Kerry, are you going to get the new BENU Skywatcher?
I love the m1000, not for the price, but sadly it's the only pelikan that truly fits my giant paws. I really like the m60x as well but it's more like what the 20x/40x is to most people.
I wish the 800 had a bigger section because I would reach for that one first every time
I also ate ramen for a month to buy an m1000 new on sale for 550 for an ef nib with the translucent barrel because, you know, pen fomo...I was disappointed how much pelikan has cut corners in their presentation because I think of it as part of the price. Used is the best way to go for pelikan I feel, same bang better buck
My collection includes a Pelikan M200 (brown, extra fine), M600 (vibrant orange, extra fine) and three Pilot Metropolitans with fine, medium, and medium italic nibs. Ranked in order of attractiveness, the M600 is the absolute standout. But for writing pleasure, the pens would rank (1) Pilot medium italic, (2) Pilot fine, (3) Pilot medium, (4) M600, (5) M200. Put simply, both Pelikans have a slight scratchiness on the paper while the Pilots-the medium and fine in particular-are wonderfully smooth, and the medium italic is just fun to write with.
My first Pelikan FP was actually the M1000 green stripes some 10 years ago. I'll have to note that I was an FP user long before that; so I had an idea of what I was getting myself into. But the M1000 was not really on my mind until I stumbled upon one in a random stationery store on a great sale! İt was a great price and I had a good day financially. That is a good combo 😊 But it is also a good way down a Pelikan rabbit hole. After a lot of them bought and left behind throughout the years; I would advise anyone to save up and get an M800 or better yet an M1000. I find that the rest of the line is waaay overpriced for what they are. Today I have a solid Pelikan collection that consists of M800s and M1000s. I could even let go of the M800s but I mainly have the LEs or SEs in both lines and they are beautiful. I even have the renaissance M800 that they are bringing back in the M1000!! On a side note, I find that they have gone so much in price over time that I probably could make a profit if I ever sell them. That's a good reason why I could part with my M800s and another is the fact that I don't really use them much anymore. Eventhough they are beautiful and solid writers, the M1000 is a vastly different and much superior writer then the M800 in my opinion. It is a totally different experience. So I reach for them if I want to use a Pelikan. Wich is so ironic considering that the classic green stripe M1000 was my first one anyway before jumping down this particular FP rabbit hole 😅
My experience with the M200 has been, with the Pilot Metropolitan not so much. I tried Kate of upon your excitement and found them sadly lacking the four I bought and nib and feed problems
Oh but the 200 nib is so much better. IMO. I don’t agree with you,but love that u have an opinion and it’s okay we have differences. Who wants to a lemming. I do like seeing ink in a piston filler. Piston fillers r overrated imo. I like converters. Not as romantic but cheaper and easier to load les ink.
Thanks as always for a good video. For those who want to try a Pelikan 205 for a good price, the Apatite 205 comes with a bottle of matching ink and mine wrote beautifully out of the box. Deep discounts are available at Pen Boutique there you can get the pen and ink for around $130 US. That said, it is a bit small, so I tend to use it as a pen to have in my bag when I’m out and about. I also have a M1000, that I got used at a pen show. That size is much better for me and my goodness what a nib. 18k fine and so springy and bouncy. It is the finest pen I own. Hands down. I believe the M800 has a very similar nib. The 400 and 600 are still gold, but not nearly as bouncy. Keep well.
Iirc, the nib on the M1000 is bigger and way cooler than the one on the M800.
RE the new Pelikans, I actually prefer not to see the innards of my pens. And I have to believe my pens appreciate their privacy.
You can get a new m1000 Pelikan for around 500
You said they are building a park? Really? Or maybe, and what's more likely, a parking lot. Pelikan huh...think I'll save up for a Meisterstuck instead.
I have an M205 and an M800. 800 is a much better size for me! I love it!
I love your rambling >:(
Dont let the concise police get u down!! Adhd-havers unite! 😂
The new Pelikan design with the opaque body Is ridiculous. A piston pen without an ink window is almost useless, A $500 + pen cannot even support the basic functionalities.
It is disconcerting that Pelikan is taking cost saving steps, like making the barrel opaque, on what is already a very expensive pen, but not lowering the price. I blame the new(ish) owners. Established brands are not purchased in order to improve the product, but rather, often, to suck them dry. Buy all the Pelikans you want ASAP, seeing if you can dig up a transparent barrel (such an iconic look), even if you have to go used.
I like your content, but please stop imitating Peter McKinnon with "whatsupeverybody".. you come across as unoriginal.
Don't have any Pelikans, although I would like to, but they're too expensive except for the M200/M205 which is in reach (around 120-160 €). I'm currently looking into Leonardos which feels more appealing with different colours/patterns and they seem to have very good reviews, for example by yours truly. I hope things are better with Parker. I think about her now and then. 😇🩷🙏🙌
I have an M205 and M800. They are both good pens IMO. The M800, to me, is a just luxurious experience. And yes, personally I find the M800 more comfortable for longer periods of writing. But if I’m out and about and damage the nib of the M205 then it’s around £10 GBP to replace not £200. It’s also meant I’ve bought nib units from EF up to BB for my M205 and do find myself swapping them out when I fancy something different.
I have 200, 400 and 600. I prefer the size of the 600, but I think I prefer the steel nib of the 200 (don't shoot me!). I find the gold nibs a bit scratchy, but maybe I'm just not used to them.
I have 6 pelikan and 6 Leonardo's... All of the pelicans wrote amazing out of the box, all of the Leonardo's has nibs that needed to be tuned/replaced and my MZ grande had a feed to small and is unusable as it leaks ink into the cap constantly.
Just my personal experience