First time I’ve seen the mic held pointing down. My couch is pretty absorptive so I imagine there will be a difference with the upright 90 deg position. I also noticed that when one is measuring L+R MMM the bass appears more boosted than when only a single channel is used - this might make one lower the bass more than what is actually desired.
Would have loved to see the graphs in your theater room with the mic pointed up for the last measurement style on the boom. There's likely some ceiling reflections coming into play and also those from the couch. The couch (which appears to be leather/vinyl) being so close to the mic when pointed down would likely account for the more lively top end on that measurement I'd think.
Tradeoffs. I had to point it downward to capture the response in the head area. Pointing it up meant the boom hits the seat and the mic is *at best* about 4 inches above the head area. Based on what I'm seeing here, I honestly don't think the difference would have changed if the mic could have been pointed up, though. But there's no way to know for sure unless I measure from the side (which could also impact the response). Six of one...
I figured there was a reason. Sure it won't make much difference but since we are talking about the difference a body in the way makes we are already kinda splitting hairs. Great video.
This is interesting, I was expecting a bigger difference. I'm sort of disappointed you didn't do this in the car but it's still useful information. It's interesting to see the biggest delta affects the midbass area and the body is causing constructive interference. I built a fan rig similar to yours so I'll do my own in car measurements this week so I can conduct my own experiment. Cool video. Keep up the good work.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Haha! No worries Erin. I totally understand. I was going to go mess with the Helix Auto EQ tonight but when its only 20 degrees outside my motivation to do car audio stuff tends to go way down.
So how do you measure in a car to get best results? Do you do the moving mic method, with you in your seat? Or do you move the mic without you in the seat? I’m confused . Lol How do you work around the phenomenon of head shadowing or what you called it? Thanks man
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what is pseudo pink noise? I'm just getting into all of this and also wanted to know your thoughts on correlated and uncorrelated pink noise, and when to use each one. Thank you for the informative video!
This has a lot of in-depth discussion on Pseudo-random pink noise. Way more than I could hope to explain. audioxpress.com/article/Audio-Testing-With-Noise
Hey Erin thanks for the knowledgeable video. I tired many times to match house curve in REW on helix miniDSP in my car... but the graph doesn't change much only its get some Cutts but the overall graphic nature remains same in entire range... can suggest how can i get a flat cure or target curve
Honestly, there could be any number of reasons as to why you're having issues. I wouldn't know where to start without more information. What's your setup, what is the target curve you are trying to achieve? That kind of info. I'll try to help if I can but doing this over the internet is kind of hard.
another great vid Erin. will def move to the back seat to do measurements in the future. Just a question on sweeps vs MMM with PN. Is there value in being able to measure IR (to set delays) and/or unwrapped phase (for phase alignment) using sweeps? or is this not useful in car audio and if so why?
In car audio it is useful to help you set actual time delay. But do you have to have it? Nope. Really, a standard tape measure will suffice. Measure the distance to each speaker and set the time delay accordingly.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks Erin. Went back and remeasured the distances after taking the seats out of the car. Deducted the distances from the speaker furthest away (sub) and plugged the resulting delays into the DSP. Instant improvement !! Thanks again...
I think this title is misleading. The answer is around 15:52 and it's really about how to measure for achieving a "target curve". I thought this was going to be focused on the differences between tuning for a "house curve", vs. say a flat target.
I will at some point. Gonna need to clear out all my current test subjects. Right now I have a lot of boxes and speakers sitting in the home theater. But hopefully within the next couple months the space will be cleared out again. 😀
I hope T-Fade finds this video. My conclusion over years of attempting to tune is to take it to someone who knows what they are doing and save yourself hours of frustration. Unless you like that sort of thing. You can always play with the tune later after it’s been in capable hands. Just be sure to have the tune backed up so you don’t overwrite it. I’ve been to several different people and they are all slightly different. I learned something from each of them. If I start from a tune from scratch I still can’t get it to sound as good as what they create.
Nice job, Erin. Very interesting. Have you considered comparing the moving mic method vs. a microphone array? Also, the production on this video and the animated intro were super well done. Did Nick happen to do the intro?
LOL... have I considered.... man, you know my squirrel brain. I actually made mention of arrays and showed off the UMIK-X but I edited it out because I didn't want it to get sidetracked. I will be reviewing the UMIK-X soon. That piece is a game changer. And I rarely use that term. Thanks for the props, man! I appreciate that. I've been working to get better at the quality of the videos but there is always something I want to improve on. I actually paid someone on Fiverr to do the intro back in March or so. Think I paid like $50. Well worth it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner As far as I know, REW pro update now has the capability to measure using the multi mic arrays. Interested to see your review on the UMIK-X
Why do you have to use a sine sweep for the single-point averaged measurements? I’m trying to make measurements in my car. I took multiple single-point measurements using pink noise and was going to average them together.
Hi Erin, could also try to show the difference between single mic vs multiple mic results, So with multiple mic setup you really don't actually need to move the mic from left to right and upside down. Rest the information is very informative.
I don't have the means to use multiple microphones (anymore). I do, however, have the MiniDSP UMIK-X - which is an arrayed USB microphone - on hand and will be reviewing that soon. :)
I think I'm going to put a sweatband around my head with the mic at my ear hole and test left/right speaker on left and right ear. Hopefully none of my neighbors will see me😂
i do not know if these methods are supposed to do measure something special. but if you want a even loudness across the frequency band to you ears, then use the ears to adjust it. a mic can show something visually or adjust for delay and phase really well. but for volume it is not useful. its very easy to sit in the listening position and use a tone generator and send out a mono signal to both speakers, go slowly across the frequency band from the lowest hz you want to the highest you want, smooth it all out to it sound like even loudness, and try this out at low and high volume. works for subwoofer integration also.
@@ErinsAudioCorner lmao , while watching this video I was thinking about the clothing that I wear most and how I can put that on the dummy. While also removing the head of it I can somehow have the fan/microphone assembly tucked behind it so I can get consistent measurements. Then again have the head still attached would make better sense. Yes I know it sounds crazy. My grandmother came to the states from Germany. When I begin to think of fabricating or engineering something I swear on everything that the percentage of German blood I do have is dominant. Over doing it!!!!
@Erin's Audio Corner Good stuff, man! This video supplants hundreds of forum posts trying to describe & explain all of the techniques, differences, and corresponding results. 👍 Really looking forward to your findings regarding the UMIK-X. :-) As a side note, you might consider changing the title to achieve significantly better search results. I get that your current Title is simple and to the point...but... For instance, your Title does not include, "Measurement(s)", "Microphone", "Using" & "REW", "Home" & "Stereo" & "Theater", "Car" & "Audio", "Target", "Frequency Response", "How To", and the #1 search term, "The Best...", etc. ;-) So if I searched for, "REW Microphone Measurements", your video most likely wouldn't be at the top of the list. Maybe something like, "Moving Mic Methods How-To: The Best Microphone Measurement Techniques Using REW to Tune and Match Frequency Response to a Target House Curve in Your Home Theater or Car Audio Stereo System". I realize that it's a LONG & somewhat overly complex Title, but it incorporates the Key Phrases & Combination of Words that viewers with various types of systems are most likely to use during their search for this specific information... Which equates to exponentially more channel views. :-) Just my usual 0.02 :p
First time I’ve seen the mic held pointing down. My couch is pretty absorptive so I imagine there will be a difference with the upright 90 deg position. I also noticed that when one is measuring L+R MMM the bass appears more boosted than when only a single channel is used - this might make one lower the bass more than what is actually desired.
Excellent video, excellent information. Thank you for sharing the knowledge Erin, it's appreciated more than you know.
Great video Erin! Andy W also advocates mic in car and you outside in his tuning guide which tunes to a curve.
Currently performing my own tests. Very useful thankyou!
Great video! If you be so kind, will you please provide the REW text files in respect to various target/house curves?
Would have loved to see the graphs in your theater room with the mic pointed up for the last measurement style on the boom. There's likely some ceiling reflections coming into play and also those from the couch. The couch (which appears to be leather/vinyl) being so close to the mic when pointed down would likely account for the more lively top end on that measurement I'd think.
Tradeoffs. I had to point it downward to capture the response in the head area. Pointing it up meant the boom hits the seat and the mic is *at best* about 4 inches above the head area. Based on what I'm seeing here, I honestly don't think the difference would have changed if the mic could have been pointed up, though. But there's no way to know for sure unless I measure from the side (which could also impact the response). Six of one...
I figured there was a reason. Sure it won't make much difference but since we are talking about the difference a body in the way makes we are already kinda splitting hairs. Great video.
This is interesting, I was expecting a bigger difference.
I'm sort of disappointed you didn't do this in the car but it's still useful information. It's interesting to see the biggest delta affects the midbass area and the body is causing constructive interference.
I built a fan rig similar to yours so I'll do my own in car measurements this week so I can conduct my own experiment.
Cool video.
Keep up the good work.
Well, I wound up trying to set it up in the car but it was a pain with the camera so I got frustrated and just bailed on that.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Haha! No worries Erin. I totally understand. I was going to go mess with the Helix Auto EQ tonight but when its only 20 degrees outside my motivation to do car audio stuff tends to go way down.
Give this guy a thumbs up peeps! Fantastic work!
Re your chat with Lars Risbo; please ask him what plans they have for other drivers, amps and what about a DAC?
So how do you measure in a car to get best results?
Do you do the moving mic method, with you in your seat?
Or do you move the mic without you in the seat?
I’m confused . Lol
How do you work around the phenomenon of head shadowing or what you called it?
Thanks man
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what is pseudo pink noise? I'm just getting into all of this and also wanted to know your thoughts on correlated and uncorrelated pink noise, and when to use each one. Thank you for the informative video!
This has a lot of in-depth discussion on Pseudo-random pink noise. Way more than I could hope to explain. audioxpress.com/article/Audio-Testing-With-Noise
Hey Erin thanks for the knowledgeable video.
I tired many times to match house curve in REW on helix miniDSP in my car... but the graph doesn't change much only its get some Cutts but the overall graphic nature remains same in entire range... can suggest how can i get a flat cure or target curve
Pls give ur suggestions!!
Honestly, there could be any number of reasons as to why you're having issues. I wouldn't know where to start without more information. What's your setup, what is the target curve you are trying to achieve? That kind of info. I'll try to help if I can but doing this over the internet is kind of hard.
@@ErinsAudioCorner thanks for your quick reply.
another great vid Erin. will def move to the back seat to do measurements in the future. Just a question on sweeps vs MMM with PN. Is there value in being able to measure IR (to set delays) and/or unwrapped phase (for phase alignment) using sweeps? or is this not useful in car audio and if so why?
In car audio it is useful to help you set actual time delay. But do you have to have it? Nope. Really, a standard tape measure will suffice. Measure the distance to each speaker and set the time delay accordingly.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks Erin. Went back and remeasured the distances after taking the seats out of the car. Deducted the distances from the speaker furthest away (sub) and plugged the resulting delays into the DSP. Instant improvement !! Thanks again...
I think this title is misleading. The answer is around 15:52 and it's really about how to measure for achieving a "target curve". I thought this was going to be focused on the differences between tuning for a "house curve", vs. say a flat target.
I’d like to see a video of your home system! ✌🏼
I will at some point. Gonna need to clear out all my current test subjects. Right now I have a lot of boxes and speakers sitting in the home theater. But hopefully within the next couple months the space will be cleared out again. 😀
I hope T-Fade finds this video. My conclusion over years of attempting to tune is to take it to someone who knows what they are doing and save yourself hours of frustration. Unless you like that sort of thing. You can always play with the tune later after it’s been in capable hands. Just be sure to have the tune backed up so you don’t overwrite it. I’ve been to several different people and they are all slightly different. I learned something from each of them. If I start from a tune from scratch I still can’t get it to sound as good as what they create.
I just sent him the link. Hopefully it'll help him out a little bit.
THANKYOU... Great info. I do the same a little bit of each way.
Thanks for watching!
Nice job, Erin. Very interesting. Have you considered comparing the moving mic method vs. a microphone array? Also, the production on this video and the animated intro were super well done. Did Nick happen to do the intro?
LOL... have I considered.... man, you know my squirrel brain. I actually made mention of arrays and showed off the UMIK-X but I edited it out because I didn't want it to get sidetracked. I will be reviewing the UMIK-X soon. That piece is a game changer. And I rarely use that term.
Thanks for the props, man! I appreciate that. I've been working to get better at the quality of the videos but there is always something I want to improve on. I actually paid someone on Fiverr to do the intro back in March or so. Think I paid like $50. Well worth it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner As far as I know, REW pro update now has the capability to measure using the multi mic arrays. Interested to see your review on the UMIK-X
@@socketsocket2763 yep and the UMIK-X includes a license for REW Pro. 👍
Why do you have to use a sine sweep for the single-point averaged measurements? I’m trying to make measurements in my car. I took multiple single-point measurements using pink noise and was going to average them together.
Great explanation, Erin...I'm just lucky that my body is acoustically transparent
It's getting more and more that way each time I see you. 💪
Hi Erin, could also try to show the difference between single mic vs multiple mic results, So with multiple mic setup you really don't actually need to move the mic from left to right and upside down. Rest the information is very informative.
I don't have the means to use multiple microphones (anymore). I do, however, have the MiniDSP UMIK-X - which is an arrayed USB microphone - on hand and will be reviewing that soon. :)
I was going to ask this question on the live cast last night. Also moving mic vs stand still.
I think I'm going to put a sweatband around my head with the mic at my ear hole and test left/right speaker on left and right ear. Hopefully none of my neighbors will see me😂
brother plz recommed any slim subwoofer as i have to carry it on flight
JL Audio or Stereo Integrity are the only ones I have personal experience with.
@@ErinsAudioCorner under 150 dollar plz give the link
i need to use it for my home how is theatre solutions subwoofer
i do not know if these methods are supposed to do measure something special.
but if you want a even loudness across the frequency band to you ears, then use the ears to adjust it.
a mic can show something visually or adjust for delay and phase really well. but for volume it is not useful.
its very easy to sit in the listening position and use a tone generator and send out a mono signal to both speakers, go slowly across the frequency band from the lowest hz you want to the highest you want, smooth it all out to it sound like even loudness, and try this out at low and high volume. works for subwoofer integration also.
Good video, thank you
Glad you liked it!
Totally the first and biggest nerd.
So in the drivers seat of my truck I should put a blowup doll or crash dummy with heads removed while using your home built fan mic method 😁
Dude... I stopped reading at "blowup doll". 😂😜
@@ErinsAudioCorner lmao , while watching this video I was thinking about the clothing that I wear most and how I can put that on the dummy. While also removing the head of it I can somehow have the fan/microphone assembly tucked behind it so I can get consistent measurements. Then again have the head still attached would make better sense.
Yes I know it sounds crazy. My grandmother came to the states from Germany. When I begin to think of fabricating or engineering something I swear on everything that the percentage of German blood I do have is dominant. Over doing it!!!!
Some of those dolls have built in nicely cushioned mic holders!😂
@@Jeremydmeyer76 🤣 🤪
@Erin's Audio Corner
Good stuff, man! This video supplants hundreds of forum posts trying to describe & explain all of the techniques, differences, and corresponding results. 👍
Really looking forward to your findings regarding the UMIK-X. :-)
As a side note, you might consider changing the title to achieve significantly better search results.
I get that your current Title is simple and to the point...but...
For instance, your Title does not include, "Measurement(s)", "Microphone", "Using" & "REW", "Home" & "Stereo" & "Theater", "Car" & "Audio", "Target", "Frequency Response", "How To", and the #1 search term, "The Best...", etc. ;-)
So if I searched for, "REW Microphone Measurements", your video most likely wouldn't be at the top of the list.
Maybe something like, "Moving Mic Methods How-To: The Best Microphone Measurement Techniques Using REW to Tune and Match Frequency Response to a Target House Curve in Your Home Theater or Car Audio Stereo System".
I realize that it's a LONG & somewhat overly complex Title, but it incorporates the Key Phrases & Combination of Words that viewers with various types of systems are most likely to use during their search for this specific information...
Which equates to exponentially more channel views. :-)
Just my usual 0.02 :p