Arnold vs Nautilus: A Critical Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2024
- ...a critical analysis OF the critical analysis.
Brought to you by a.co/d/6XYpAh1 Joint-Friendly Fitness by Bill DeSimone.
This looks at an article from Joe Weider's Muscle Builder Power in 1973. First a skim of the whole issue, cover, table of contents, some ads, quick looks at a couple of other articles, a slight detour through what Nautilus and Iron Man magazine did to bring this on, then a full read through of "The Nautilus Machines: A Critical Analysis Part 1."
Clearly intended as a hatchet job, this may have backfired, as at the time Nautilus and Iron Man magazine did not have nearly the foot print as the Weider magazines, which were on the newstands every month.
Enjoy. Next, back to my own Critical Analysis of Long-Length Partials, Part 3, in which I describe what they are really documenting in the research: it's not what they think.
All magazines copyright whoever they say it is. For educational/entertainment purposes only, from my private stock of magazines bought off the newstand 50 years ago. - กีฬา
![ทททททททท #27 [หลุยส์ เค โตมายังไง ณ สระบุรี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CaKoYw_Xmtg/mqdefault.jpg)
Total typical Weider B.S. hatchet job article. Here's the real deal: Jones offered Peary Radar Free written content in return Radar gave Jones Free advertising in his magazine (Iron Man). A Win Win for both parties. Weider offered Jones NO such deal. Instead, Weider wanted Jones to pay a massive advertising fee to place his ads in Muscle Builder magazine. Jones declined and that was that. Weider spitefully wrote these Hatchet articles against Nautilus for NOT getting Jones advertising account. Weider then sent Arnold and Franco to Deland as corporate spies to see what Jones's Nautilus Training System was all about. Ellington Darden relates what really happened to Arnold & Franco:
Weider sent Arnold and Franco to the Florida Deland Nautilus Center to act as corporate spies and find out what Arthur Jones was up to. Before entering the compound, Arthur had the bodybuilders sign a release form because they were going to be weighted and measured. The results would later be published in a non-B.S. manner. Weider magazines were notorious for out right lying about bodybuilders stats. So Arnold's 22.5" Arms SHRUNK to 19.5" and 19". A large arm, but NOT even 20". The two measurements were caused by Arnold's unsymmetrical biceps. Arnold REFUSED to be photographed next to the teenaged Casey Viator. Because Casey's Mighty Arms and Legs were MORE MASSIVE & MUSCULAR than Arnold's. Even with a 5” height advantage. Sergio's arms were scientifically measured at 20.25" cold. Both of Sergio's arms measured identically. Talk about flawless symmetry! But more fascinating was the fact that Sergio's Arm Height was Taller than the height of his head. Yes, Sergio's Arms were LARGER THAN HIS HEAD!!!!! A muscular proportion yet to be achieved by anyone. Today we have bodybuilders with 25" Arms due to site oil (SYNTHOL) injections. Sergio also attained a 30” plus Chest Waist differential and his Quads became larger than his Waist!!! The 1971 photos of Sergio Oliva taken by Arthur Jones at the Nautilus Center appear UNREAL to this day. Both Arnold and Franco were subjected to a H.I.T. Training Session. Franco was able to complete the workout. Franco could take the punishment. But Arnold got half way through, then he THREW-UP in an empty paint bucket and left the compound never to return!!!! During the 1960's-1970's and early 1980's Sergio possessed the largest Arms in Professional Bodybuilding. The MOST MASSIVE, MOST MUSCULAR and MOST IMPRESSIVE!!! Arnold Fan Boys have to face the fact that Arnold was a very FLAWED Bodybuilder. NARROW coat hanger Shoulders, THICK four pack waist, POOR V-Taper, BARBIE-DOLL THIN Forearms, WEAK Triceps, PUNY UNDERSIZED Legs and CALF IMPLANTS too!!! Arnold was just a tall version of Larry Scott. Both were THICK waisted and Narrow Shouldered. Both relied on Twisted side poses to hide all their Weak Points. Arnold’s best Free Style poses are actually Larry Scott poses. But a contest is decided on compulsory poses, NOT free style poses. Sergio had NO weak points and could execute FULL WIDTH on all his Frontal and Back poses. Like the 180 degree straight across Double biceps, front crucifix or the Amazing Victory Pose, viewed either from the front or back. Arnold at 6’ 1” and Sergio at 5’ 10” was three inches taller than Sergio. But Sergio OUT-MASSED AND OUT-WEIGHTED Arnold. Because Arnold had UNDERSIZED Leg development. Arnold was the Weider’s BEST Marketing Tool for their company (IFBB) only. Sergio Oliva was the GREATEST BODYBUILDER through out the late 1960’s, 1970’s and early 1980’s.
Wow! well said!
I am surprised the quacktastic chode (aka mantastic ho) has not made an appearance on your comment yet. The guy lives for fellatiating Arnold.
Thanks for the information
Joe weider, the P.T. Barnum of bodybuilding. Those magazines were a great read though.
At least they were committed to print, and you could digest them for a month. Unlike social media posts which have a half life of about a nanosecond.
The magazines were our "Internet" back then, only way we could read contest results, various training articles, nutrition articles. It is amazing looking back how we lived, looking things up in phone books etc...
Hah and we had to wait weeks or months between issues!
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness That's all we had though, unless you had a friend who could phone you or write you a letter (nobody does that anymore!!). Phoning was expensive with long-distance charges...
How rich that Weider would mention Sergio Oliva's loss to Bill Pearl at the 1971 NABBA Universe contest. Yet, Weider forgets to mention why Arnold did NOT enter the show to defend his NABBA Pro Title. Professional Bodybuilding is a BUSINESS. The function of any business, be it a Mom & Pops store or General Motors is to produce a positive Income Cash Flow. Bob Hoffman was the first Bodybuilding/Weightlifting publisher to utilize a Genetic Freak Bodybuilder to sell product (John C. Grimek). The Weider brothers caught on and also would hire Genetic Freaks to sell product. A Mr. Olympia history lesson: Did you know that Larry Scott created the concept for a Mr. Olympia Show? Larry and Joe Weider were drinking beers together when after winning both the IFBB Mr. America and Universe he announced to Weider he was going to retire. Because there was nothing else to compete for. Weider became distraught and Larry then told him to create a show that would determine who the BEST Professional Mr. Universe would be for a given year. They both began shouting out names for the show and Mr. Olympia was decided upon! So the Olympia show was created to pick out the best Mr. Universe regardless where the title was won. So invitations were sent to Reg Park, Steve Reeves, John Grimek and Bill Pearl. The Olympia show was considered a JOKE, even Bill Pearl thought it was Winky Dinky. The NABBA Universe was the Top Show to win. Weider had a hard time finding competitors to enter the Mr. Olympia show. So only three or four would enter the show. Later, the Weiders would hire Oscar State who had worked with NABBA to raise the Mr. Olympia Show to NABBA specs.
For years, Weider had been a critic of Bill Pearl. Saying that he picked and choose the opportune time to enter the NABBA Universe show. But it was Weider's resentment that Pearl would NOT endorse the Mr. Olympia Show that made Weider say these things about Pearl. Finally Pearl called Weider's Bluff and announced that he would make a FINAL contest appearance at the 1971 NABBA Universe show at the advanced age of 40! Knowing full well that Arnold wanted to win the NABBA Pro Show a fourth consecutive time. Now Pearl would become the obstacle to Arnold's Dream. Pearl's Smart Manager was Leo Stern, who also happened to be a Crack Physique Photographer too. Phil took a series of photos of Bill Pearl showing the three month progression leading to the 1971 NABBA Show. So a week before the NABBA Show, Weider was with his friend Leo Stern attending a Bodybuilding show at a Los Angeles Auditorium where Arnold was guest posing. Weider proudly announced that his Olympia Marketing Tool and Champion Arnold was contest ready to Leo. Leo was carrying a Photo Portfolio and then let Weider look at them. They were of Bill Peal's training progression. A White Chalk faced Weider looked them over carefully and returned the portfolio to Leo Stern. Leo then told Joe Weider that Arnold looked O.K. But that Bill Pearl was going to rip him a new A-HOLE!!! Weider then told Arnold NOT to compete at the NABBA Show. Knowing full well the without Weider FIXED judging, Arnold would be LUCKY to place third! The 240lb. Pearl and the 230lb. Sergio would have BLOWN the 220lb. PUNY legged and Calf-Implanted Arnold away!!! So the 1971 NABBA Universe went on without Arnold, because both Arnold and Weider decided to turn into a pair of CHICKENS!!! Weider then CLOSED off the Mr. Olympia to outside federation bodybuilders to protect his Arnold Investment. TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION!
Arnold wrote an article after visiting Jones and Viator that Weider would have preferred silenced. Said something very descriptive like Viator mangles the equipment etc If I had to train like this would go back to Austria and be a ski instructor. Lol i believe he really did write this one.
He used to mangle the equipment at Golds as well, Viator and the Mentzers used to do a whole stack on machines and then one guy would stand on top to add weight.
Thank you for reading that entire interminable article. I can see why Arthur Jones was furious about it. Yikes.
The bottom line is that Arthur Jones represented a danger for Weider's equipment's - Weider really hated Arthur Jones, Dan Lurie and Bob Hoffman, he was always against Nautilus and wanted the whole entire pie for himself to the extend that he would suspend Bodybuilders that competed in other organizations (Like Sergio, Franco, Nubret). I will say that Weider run the IFBB like a dictatorship and would fix any contest that he choose and then play innocent.
But was Nautilus a threat to Weider's equipment then? Weider wasn't equipping commercial facilities. I think your second point, about wanting the whole pie to himself, that's getting closer to true.
It WAS a direct threat to Weider's entire message of 2 hour workouts 6x weekly.
"I need a break. The 2nd part of this article is even worse". LMAO😂
Wow.. hell of a trivia with these classic interviews.
Joe basically gathered his top two champs to have them trash the highly touted nautilus pullover & other machines .
Oddly enough Arnold still uses a pullover machine for the past 20 plus years.
Maybe because it's not a nautilus brand.
Great video, thanks for sharing!
If they were even real interviews. I have another with Bill Pearl coming.
This is comedy gold. 😂 at the same time, it has everything you need to know about the entire fitness industry.
Wow this is the biggest hatchet job ever.Great edit over the voiceover showing Joes worthless products,ie sugar filled milk drinks,bendy springs and arm blaster which actually did hurt the ribs.😂.Funny how Arnold now almost exclusively trains on machines😂,Joe was a good showman and conman, uncle Joe was ruthless with Jones,did not want the sales of his weights and benches to drop.Excellent video!👍
The chest coil bendy thing slipped out of my hand and cracked me in the jaw once. Last time I used that piece of crap.
@@Joint-FriendlyFitnessl love the power twister! You do need to stay somewhat focused, but it does work.
Lol...Weider was selling HOME equipment...Jones was selling equipment for a commercial gym. Jones is certainly responsible for creating the popularity of the commercial gym. But he lost interest in it and the company essentially collapsed.
@@idx1941 Correction, Jones sold Nautilus. then founded Med-X. Jones real interest was in the Medical Rehabilitation field. The Med-X exercise machines were designed with Computers. The Nautilus machines were based on very good guess work on strength curves. The Med-X machines are computer accurate and in use today. Read the book: Body By Science by Dr. Doug McGuff and John Little.
We all know what kind of person Weider was, but dragging Arnold and Franco to that mud??? And they accepting being used?? Now I know how Arnold and Franco won Olympia 1980 and 1981 each
And they accepted being used...yes that's hard to accept for all of them.
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness 😥😥
Weider was a real ... character. That he had the nerve to write up this b.s. AND sell his high-sugar weight gainers and spew the 30 sets/body part garbage is both laughable and depressing.
"we only print the truth here at Muscle Builder"
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness Hahaha ;)
Sounds like something straight out of Pravda, or a Goebbels publication, nay?
There is much to be critical of regarding Weider, and Jones as well. But you don't need to create your own narrative...Weider was never advocating 30 sets per body part. There can be no disputing that Weider set many a teenage boy on the path to strength and health. His equipment was aimed for home use and many teens had Weider barbells and wall charts in their basements or rooms.
@idx1941 who are you lecturing? I read the article verbatim.
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness I'm commenting on what the original poster said. But you seem overly biased. All these bodybuilding publications had a lot of bullshit fantasy in them....but Jones was also prone to stretching the truth and also outright lying. The Colorado Experiment was perhaps the pinnacle of this! It was a total con job.
Yeah they dont like them lol Arnold and Franco purchased a couple to have shipped to Golds gym which u can see them training on. What a bunch of liars.
Franco bought a 1st Generation Plate Loading Pullover and seated plate loading bicep machine and put it in Gold's Gym.
Do not forget that Frank Zane went to Deland, then bought various Nautilus machines for his home gym.
@@GTP2-zg9tn yup he sure did. And Arthur tried to measure his arm to prove his probably magazine inflated proportions. To prove point further has Casey pull his arm out to measure. Talk about wide eyes! Not that an arm makes a championship physique of which Zane had overall with aesthetics and definition but was nowhere near size and weight Weider rags claimed.
Should've done the Arnie lines in a thick Austrian accent!
Thought about it!😄
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness you'd have no voice by the end of it.
Hey Bill, what’s your thoughts on compensatory acceleration training?
Just took a quick look, mainly to see if it has anything to do with this video. Not my thing, sorry.
CAT we used in the 1960's but it was not practicle for things like squats unless very light overwise it could be dangerous and it went out of fashion .
@@hirepgym6913 Very useful for SBD. Chains or bands are utilized .
If you ever see Arnold working his arms in recent years it's always with a machine akin to the nautilus.
I just stumbled on to the July/August 2023 Men's Health, in which Arnold talks about using the Pullover machine "since the 70s."
I really doubt Arnold really said this stuff or felt this way about Nautilus equipment since he would still use it throughout his career and now trains pretty much exclusively on machines. So many of these articles are ghost written, especially when it comes to the workouts listed in the magazines.
Probably correct. In general, it seems to be known among people who were in it that books, articles, etc. were written for the sake of the writer getting paid, not any serious journalism. Plus, within 3 years, Mentzer got Weider's attention, Nautilus was all over his articles and this series was never brought up. Still, it's in print, it exists, it's fair game.
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness no doubt and I enjoyed the video! I’d be very curious to hear Arnold’s take on this article all these years later especially with Weider gone. The pictures are iconic though. I remember that arm blaster shot from one of the images they showed in Pumping Iron
I have a lot of Gen 1 machines and had them over 40 years but no manufacturer makes all good machines i kept the excelent ones Super Pullover, Duo Chest , Duo Shoulders , Super Duo Squat and others and sold the others to collectors who will buy anything Nautilus 😆
However i still used chains which date back to 1904 and combined with a Hatfield SSB (which Fred gave me his bar which i still have ) cant be beat.
Lets expose something here Joe Weider was deported from UK in the 60's for running a Pyramid scheme and selling dodgy protien supliments which meant he had to put things in the hands of his dodgy brother Ben to run he actually phoned me once to have a go at me which ended with me telling him where to go it had nothing to do with Bodybuilding he had made himself the President of the Napoleonic Society something else he never had a scooby doo in.
Very lucky to have those Pre-Exhaust machines by the Master Jones. I trained at a gym that had the two Back Per-Exhaust machines: 1- Pull-Over, Lat Bar Combo and 2- The Over-Under, Mustache Bar Combo. Years later I came across pictures of Sergio Oliva using those machines at Deland.
@@GTP2-zg9tn I have 16 Gen 1 machines i sold a couple i didnt like i have Fred Hattfields SSB hegave me 40 years ago and an original 1956 Schnell Olympic bar one of the very first made
Hahaha. I'm sure that's exactly what Arnold meant to say Joe.
Question: where is nautilus today? It was a fad that came and went.
Mike Mentzer, briefly reignited interest in nautilus theory. Like Casey Viator, Mike was a product of traditional weight training systems.
HIT was promotion and made Mike very wealthy, for a short-time.
In 1976, I met Arnold when he guest posed at the IFBB MR. NORTH AMERICA show I promotes. Asked him about nautilus. He said they were junk.
In 1978 I talked with Ed Corney at the IFBB MR. EAST COAST contest I promoted. He told me he went to Florida to train on nautilus and had the same experience as Arnold and Franco.
I trained on nautilus for a short time at a local nautilus center. FortunTely this facility also Had free weights I didn't like the machines at all and got no results. Went back to free weights and started gaining again.
Weider was a promoter and had his own reasons for attacking Jones and nautilus. Vince Gironda argued that the nautilus curl machine was a ripoff of the preacher curl and the nautilus triceps was a cheap copy of the kneeling triceps ext that Vince made popular through Larry Scott.
Art Jones used to hang around Muscle Beach in the 1950s and watched top champions at that time like Eifetman, Reeves, Tanny and others.
He saw some of them doing negatives, although at time, it was called reverse gravity.
He learned about flushing, super sets etc. Here and used it later.
Back in those days, the bodybuilders trained only 3 days a week. Art Jones copied that also
Weider was a marketer, that's for sure and so was Art Jones. One difference is that Weider loved bodybuilding. Jones was in it just for the money.
Thanks for the comment. But. Where is bodybuilding today? Still a niche, and backslid from where it appeared to be going in the 70s. And as far as Weider loving bodybuilding and Jones just being in it for the money, that's an impressive bit of mindreading. You accuse Jones of copying? What are the Weider Training Principles? Academic research?
btw you promoted contests? Did you know Roger Schwab?
At least Arnold got that mole removed. One good thing to credit Arnold for.
Ha!
Joe: You know how it works right Arnold?
Arnold: What's that Joe?
Joe: Its MY way or the Highway!!
Arnold: Right Boss...
Joe: Exactly! Just see what I did to Mike Mentzer's career
Only Arnold preceded Mentzer by about 8 years.
Sounds like bad fan-fiction 😂
If it was written today we would accuse it of being AI.
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness So true. I didn't even think of that. It's like an essay from one of my cheating students...🤣
The stage collapsed while Arnold was posing?! What the f*ck?!
Quite possibly the least known part of Arnold's biography. Well, other than the "congenital heart condition" that was never mentioned about the most publicized bodybuilder on the planet. Given the credibility issues with the muscle magazines, I'm tempted not to believe it, but on its face it seems plausible.
What a bunch of bad propaganda against Joe Weider's rival and his Nautilus machines.
Saying that the machines make you smaller, fatter, and injured.
What a snake.
Sounds like a typical Weider bs article.
"Trainer of Champions"?
😂
Yet Nautilus has virtually disappeared from gyms altogether. So much for hit.
As far as what? Commercial footprint in a fad based industry?
@@Joint-FriendlyFitness That's right. Nautilus was a fad.
Nautilus was purchased by Bowflex in 1986. Then Bowflex renamed itself to "Nautilus inc." in 2005. In 2011, Bowflex stopped selling equipment to commercial gyms and decided to focus more on cardio equipment, the home gym machines, and their version of adjustable dumbbells (not a very good version compared to others). Any newer "Nautilus" machines found after 2013 was then just the name being licensed. You don't see a lot of "Nautilus" because not very many people even manufacture anything with the same name anymore.
You also have to keep in mind that most gyms are commercial gym chains that try to minimize startup costs as much as possible. For example, there are many 40 and 42 lb plates in commercial gyms labeled as 45 lb plates because they go with the cheapest options that end up having the highest variability whereas you'd probably have to go to a better gym to find one with plates manufactured to be withing tighter tolerances like milled or calibrated plates or buy your own. In some of the smaller gyms or more private gyms, you will still find some Nautilus Nitro equipment and so on. You'll also find hammer strength and leverage based equipment that work within the same principles as Nautilus. They just vary resistance with levers instead of a cam.
The few "real gyms" remaining still have Nautilus. One of the 1st things I look for. Newbies have no idea how good those machines are.
@Mantastic-ho3vm
Consider the cost for 1 thing. Those machines had as much steel as an automobile. Not cost effective. However, they remain state of the art. I know, newer is always better. Do you really like cookie cutter corporate walmart gyms? I don't.
43 minutes of content and not a single dhout out of criticism of V Shred. Billy, you're not taking your career as a youtube influencer seriously.
Oh i agree with that
You got me.