FYI, the Khura'in names were NOT the localizations fault. The JP names are literally just random Japanese words written in Katakana to denote them as foreign, the ENG names are actually a very direct adaptation.
Regarding 3-2, there's a pretty major translation error that I think people should be more aware of. During the scene where they discuss Pearl's backstory, Phoenix says this about Morgan: "She's currently serving a prison term in isolation..." This is, uh, very wrong. This is what the Japanese ACTUALLY says. "‥‥刑務所の独房で、 刑の執行を待っている‥‥" Translated: "...In a solitary prison cell, she now awaits for her punishment to be carried out..." Yeah, Morgan isn't "serving a prison term" like the ENG states, she's on death fucking row, waiting to be executed. This is further shown by what Maya says, while she says "right now" in ENG, in the JP she says もう, literally just "now"; because Morgan ain't coming back. You know that bit in 3-5 when she talks about her "final wish" and the text goes red? That's HEAVILY implied to be her final thoughts as she dies. How's THAT for a fun fact?
Do you have any idea how impressive this is? I had to actually go back and remember some aspects to bring to this. They REALLY take attacks on the Master of Kurain seriously. It’s not like Morgan didn’t deserve it. She was revealed to have found her own niece expendable. Plus she tried to kill Dahlia in prison. And they had no reason to transfer her from Solitary Cell 13. I knew what happened to her when Kristoph received that cell. If anything Mimi would’ve gotten a lighter sentence due to her circumstance and would’ve been charged with negligence on top of that for the 14 patients. Even if Mimi committed 1st degree murder. Technically it was all to stay in hiding rather than an explicit attack on Maya. Even if she did drug her. The whole attack on Maya was specifically Morgan’s plot. Godot likely got the death penalty for the same reason. An attack on the Master. Attacking civil servants yields to SERIOUS punishment. Especially one of such renown to their government for them to trust with DL-6.
@@Kaempfdog Godot was protecting Maya, the future Master, from an evil ghost trying to kill her, that just happened to be using Misty's body for complicated reasons. That's voluntary manslaughter, not cold murder. In general, though, it's more that the Japanese is FAR more insistent about implying the death penalty than the ENG. They never once use "go to prison" as a phrase for murder charges (just the lighter charge Lana, Adrian, Ron and Iris face, though Ron avoids his on technicality), and there are frequent allusions to characters dying if you fail (Maya saying that she dodged death "three times" in JFA's credits, for example). Godot IS implied to be dead, as he's with Mia and Misty in the final shot of T&T, but that's more in the symbolic sense that his life is concluded, so he can pass on peacefully (it's a Buddhist thing).
@@rainspectre3153 well done. That is one hell of a good take. I’ve been calling it murder this whole time because Godot specifically created those circumstances. But yeah voluntary manslaughter is a much better description. Also I did forget that it’s the Japanese system a lot more insistent on that.
@@rainspectre3153Hmm… what about Maggie Byrde in 3-3? She gets found guilty(might as well have been by your hand since everyone was so thoroughly duped), but a month later she’s still chilling in prison. Was there something different about her circumstances somehow? Or does it just take a while for the death sentence to be carried out?
@@rainspectre3153 Actually no, it's rare to see culprits or even wrongly suspected people actually getting the death row. Maya "dodging death three times" is about: when she was framed by Mia's murder, when she could've be killed by Grey (who's carrying a weapon for the channeling session) and when she was kidnapped and nearly starved to death by deKiller. And the first one is understandable if you interpret they find fratricide a very serious offense. As for the culprits, only von Karma, Morgan and Dahlia are ever confirmed to be dead (von Karma gets a throwaway line from Phoenix to Franziska stating that "revenge won't bring your father back". We even see Sawhit in AAI:2.
Fun Fact: in the very first case if you say that Cindy Stone was hanged, the judge says that he's completely fine with you hanging yourself just not in his court...uh judge...
0/10, no mention during Samurai that it's the first ladder vs step ladder argument Joking aside, I like this list and think it's very neat. Look forward to the 2nd video to see which ones you two really like
I don't think the Wendy oldbag twist would have been funnier without her first appearance because then we wouldn't get Edgeworth being mad at it happening two days in a row to him
weirdly enough, I like intro cases, mostly because I feel the investigation sections pretty boring, so I like to run straight to the trials, even if they are simpler.
Well investigations are more used for world building. And using that knowledge in the world you explore is what makes trial sections great when they test you right. That’s my view. And why I feel like most intros are lacking. But it’s not weird to enjoy the intros. They have their own charms. And they clearly CAN blow away expectations depending on preference.
Yeah, that is a big reason why I'm fine with intro cases as well. Investigations often bore me so much, sometimes I just go by the guide to get through them. I remember I wasn't feeling like playing Tunabout Beginnings, because investigating, but then I found out it's a court only case, and was like "Okay, let's do this". So yeah, agreed:-D
@@Kaempfdog That is true and there are interesting bits, but overall I find myself having to skip mountains of texts to find the one item you need, or spending ages flitting from area to area until eventually triggering the one event you need to progress to the next part.
@@Kaempfdog I think its just player preferences. I like the intro cases also a lot (and I was a bit mad that you ranked AA1:1 as your last place :D). Down on my list are often the "middle" cases, who are most of the time not connected to the "serious" arc (same like intro cases) of the game, but have long and exhausting investigation parts (unlike the intro cases). Worst contented for this is the circus case in Justice for All, my personal last place. I also loved 3-4 and would put it in top 20.
I am now curious how you'll rank the Great Ace Attorney Chronicles cases in your list now. To be honest, it's one of my favorites in the entire Ace Attorney franchise now.
Same here. Not having played DGS2 yet (I will though) I still can say that DGS1 is one of my top AA games, if not even my favorite game of the bunch! :)
I know what i'm about to say has nothing to do with anything but since I just finished that part I have to say... Spoiler Enoch drebber getting up after being found on the safe is one of the coolest animations i've ever seen in a video game.
I finished Chronicles yesterday and I have to say that despite my love and nostalgia for the original trilogy, I enjoyed chronicles so much more! I absolutely loved the story, characters and setting it introduced and for me the last few cases are the best ones I've experienced in the Ace Attorney series.
@@juliogomesdesouza9035 Agreed xD He honestly became my favourite side character in the series. His story, design, animations and soundtrack were perfect!
I think 3-2 should be ranked higher because it completely twists up the formula, contrary to what you said in script. It has you thinking you’re dealing with a different type of crime for the first half of the case, with your client constantly insisting that he is guilty of the theft. But the first day seems pretty easy, and you corner Atmey and get a confession out of him. But then you get into the defendant’s lobby, and the whole script is flipped when Godot delivers the news of the murder to you. Suddenly it dawns on you that Ron’s and Atmey’s confessions to theft both make sense - Atmey confessed to theft in the bank so he could be written off for the murder of Kane Bullard by rule of double jeopardy; Ron knew this, and tried to get himself convicted of the theft so that he, who had been blackmailed to go to the scene by the conniving killer, would not himself be convicted of murder. I don’t think you talked enough about how good of a villain Atmey is, either. He is charming, but not as funny as Tigre; though he makes up for it by being present throughout the entire case, unlike Tigre. He also had a much better, more thought out plan than Tigre, and thus is more satisfying to bring down in my opinion. Though Atmey basically carries this case, since Ron and Desiree are kinda mediocre, so I can understand not ranking this case any higher than #15.
What I can't stand about Atmey is how fucking obvious of a culprit he is though. Like, I don't believe there's a single player who went into 3-2 for the first time and didn't IMMEDIATELY suspect him of being Mask DeMasque.
@@midnalazuli793 Sure, but that also helps him. The more obvious he is, the less chance that he’s the murderer. I’m thoroughly convinced he cranked up every annoying part of what he does just for that instance. Atmey’s genuinely smart and a really good villain despite being under grasp of Kane Bullard until he kills him. He knew how to get away with it if almost anything went wrong, and the only reason he lost was because he had assumed too much (and Godot screwed him over because he saw Mia)
@@midnalazuli793believe it or not, Atmey was not my main suspect when I first played the case. I was CERTAIN it was Dessie, with her “I can’t stand criminals” mentality being a cover up and Ron wanting to take the blame in order to save his wife. Also, Dessie’s facial structure matched that of Mask DeMasque much better than Atmey did. It made sense in my head, Atmey was suspicious but everything lead me to believe it was Dessie
The Stolen Turnabout is actually my favorite case, and I had a moment of thinking there was no negatives when you got into the convoluted-ness of it. It’s fucking bonkers at times, and honestly, Luke Atmey’s testimonies being annoying fits his stchick perfectly.
The thing about annoying characters is that there’s a very fine line between annoying the cast and annoying your audience. By the end, Atmey had crossed over into the latter. It was honestly a problem that cropped up a lot in Takumi’s games after the first one. The characters would be so cartoony and over-the-top that the audience reaction was always going to be polarized.
We were just going to use regular Phoenix and Edgeworth, but it looked off when they were talking the dialogue AND our words. So we did pallet swaps of our favorite colors and laughed when I looked like Sahwit and he looked like Drew Misham neck down.
2-3s worst part is Ben using a puppet to exploit the fact that Regina is sheltered and ignorant so he can marry her when she's like half his age. At least Max doesn't come off as intentionally exploiting, he got her dad's permission (keep in mind when this game came out the age of consent in Japan was lower than 18) and its only a 5 year gap instead of 15, so I can see it not being super weird in Japan back then but Ben is creepy no matter how you look at it.
IMO him having Dads permission really doesn’t make it better, and it’s much worse since said girl clearly has the emotional maturity and mental age of someone much, much younger. He’s still a creep, but I totes agree that Ben is so, so, SO much worse. He just made my skin crawl throughout the whole thibg
@@aikikaname6508 the dad doesn't seem neglectful and loves her more than anything in the world. And again back when this was made where it was made, the age of consent was much lower. These days any self respecting father wouldn't let anything remotely romantic happen between those 2 let alone let them marry. Honestly Max doesn't seem super aware that Regina's obliviousness. Again its really hard for us to judge it because in our culture in our day, that's obviously wrong but at the same time we wouldn't look at the middle ages and go "wow what horrible people, setting up 15 year old girls for arranged marriages" because things were different back then. I think its weird but I also think the fact that everyone ignores all the context of when it was written and then criticize the game based on the culture of here and now is a bit unfair. And yah, Ben has no excuse. He's just creepy
I'm not a overly sensitive westerner like you all so I don't care about age consent or whatever (the same problem overly sensitive westerners have with Ray Shields, which is silly, actually). But the worst character is Regina herself. She singlehandedly make the case the utter garbage that it is. Like, she's annoyingly naive and doesn't even care about making Bat permanently in a comatose state. No wonder Acro wants to kill her. If Turnabout Big Top end with Acro somehow gets his chance to kill that discount Rose of Versailles character, I would put Turnabout Big Top much higher in rank. But no, we get that overly cheesy ending, and then Acro somehow lost all motivation. Yeah, the reason Acro, who has the best chance of being the only decent character in the entire case, turns out to be a stupid character with nothing as much as a resolve is that ending. People blame the male characters for being creepy toward a girl, not realizing that said girl is the WORST Ace Attorney character in existence. Like, what is this? A reverse harem?
@@xuniepyro7399 she's insanely innocent to not knowing what really happened...which is the fault of her FATHER not her...don't blame the kid bc she doesn't even know what death was. She doesn't really understand romance or marriage either. The person who's at fault is the one taking advantage of that, which would be Ben...he's creepy as heck even without the whole adult/minor thing bc he's like twice her age and deliberately using her naiveness to get with a girl he finds cute
Turnabout Big Top: The circus crew's detachment was beyond jarring. One of their stars just died, but they spend more time goofing off or telling jokes than actually helping Phoenix! There's denial from grief, and then there's laughing off their friends' death!
I feel like a case's quality should be more important than its length. It's better to play something short with an amazing plotline (Like SoJ, T&T and AAI2's first cases) than something long with horrible writing (Like Turnabout Big Top).
I see your point but you should try a new perspective. Plus it’s not the length that consisted of this list. We truly believe the writing in turnabout big top is much less of an issue when put under a microscope and played through paying attention to the arcs of these characters. That’s why I1-3 is so UNBELIEVABLY low. It has very little value at all. The atmosphere doesn’t fit, the side characters are next to nothing with blandness, the killer is a turd not worth your time, and the info is just generally uninteresting. 2-3 DOES have value. The characters are INTENTIONALLY childish dicks in a way that makes sense. And they get over that once they get snapped into reality courtesy of the courts. They really don’t know how to deal with tragedy. It’s well done actually. Still sub par. The SoJ’s opening HAD a serious tone that was excellent and should be taken seriously, but they threw that COMPLETELY out the window with the killer. And the fact that they took a COMPLETE tone shift with sing alongs and an unbearable prosecutor who wants you dead for no reason other than you beat him. (Manfred Von Karma but SERIOUSLY lacking) It just doesn’t work. T&T’s opening is solid but the arcs just don’t land as well as the cases above it. Only a few minor complaints. Phoenix and Grossberg kinda have slightly incomplete arcs that could use a bit more. Investigations 2 opening was WAY above all of the cases you brought up. That’s why it made it to the top half. That is a QUALITY opening. But that’s just our overall standpoint. But you should give 2-3 another shot. It’s especially solid in the 2nd half as everyone gets more humbled.
I fucking HATE turnabout big top. I didn’t care about any of the characters, lol, I actually wanted the defendant to be found guilty. I literally said out loud “I don’t fucking CARE” several times during that case XD
Agreed, Ablaze is my personal least favorite case because it just. Goes. On. Forever. The case itself isn’t all that interesting and there’s constantly new information getting showed in your face, and the wnding is horrendous with Edgeworth constantly being like “oh no, guess that’s it” and some random person shows up to save the day, it happens like 5 times within an hour of gameplay. Absolute garbage, by the end I was just glad the game was over.
This is kind of the reason I love Turnabout Beginnings as one of my top 10. It's short, precise, and absolutely Impactful. Trials are the best section and that's all it contains. Also the reason Ablaze drives me absolutely insane. We don't care about Yatagarasu until the final case and then it shoves it down our throat. Also Calisto Yew and Shi'Na is obvious Deus Ex-Machina to me
Ranking every AA case is such a fun idea. It's nice to see what everyone else thinks about all these cases. It's also nice to see some love for turnabout bigtop, my biggest problem with it was the love triangle involving a 16 year old. Also I haven't finished the video yet, but I'm excited to see what you think of my favorite case 2-4
Even though the love triangle was ABSOLUTELY cringe, it wasn’t enough to topple the remaining substance in the case. But that’s also why we argue that these people don’t know how to handle tragedy at all. Their world is their circus. And that’s why once Moe gets serious, it changes everything.
@@Kaempfdog Yeah the characters and plot were still really enjoyable aside from the love triangle. They're all so quirky and fun, with stuff like Moe bursting out into the Fresh Prince theme or the obsession with giving Max milk. Them having trouble taking things seriously makes them all interesting
Yeah, it was made even worse by the fact that said 15 year old appeared to have the mental age of a much younger child. Creepy AF but I still don’t understand it’s criticisms of it’s insane leaps in logic. It’s hardly worse than anything else in the series
eh. Personally, loved the absolute shit out of big top. not surprised it's ranked low, but it's not too low. only about a quarter of the ranking. it's nice to see people not raving about it for a change.
My eyes watering the moment the 3-4 Reminiscence theme starts playing shows how much of an impact that case left on me. Yes, 37 is criminally low for that one.
I promise you that the suicide is not why. That’s still a top 5 moment in the series for both of us. But a singular moment can’t make or break a case. And the rest was far more to the benefit of 3-1 and 3-5 rather than itself. I can go into more detail if you prefer though.
In investigations 1-3 I found the blue badger theme park more hysterical than annoying to be honest. It’s just so absolutely bizarre that I couldn’t help but find it funny, case itself was pretty boring though.
Case itself was pretty boring, true. I dislike that case solely for the existence of the proto badger costume and the horror house. That's one of the creepiest things I've seen in AA (besides child Athena and that creepy "floating" red cape guy on Investigations 2)
@@anotherhetalian8499 I don't see how that proto badger part is a negative. It feels like the writers are acknowledging how intentionally unintentionally creepy the blue badger is (no, that wasn't a typo) and capitalizing even more on it.
Really dont feel like you give 3-4 the credit it deserves. The ending was amazing,the whole build up throughout the case established the secone of the crime for 3-5 in a fun and imaginitive way and also gives some closure and explanation to Mias hate for Dahlia. Diego wasnt supposed to be something that people thought "I wonder who that could be" about,its supposed to be clear that thats Godot. From which you are supposed to piece together the relationship that he and Mia will start to share and their relationship that is developed throughout the trial. 3-1 and 4 can basicalyl be considered one case if you think about it,and they work perfectly together. They are two narratives that flow into the same over all narrative and form the frame work for what is the amazing 3-5. Terry Fawles is an interesting character to see throughout the trial,the whole kidnapping aspect gives it a bit of fresh air,seeing young Edgeworth is nice fanservice that really doesnt have to be developed further. The length of the case is also quite irrelevant since the case clearly wasnt meant to be very long,making it too long with an investigation scene and several days would have destroyed the whole foundation of the case,it was supposed to represent Mias talent as a lawyer immediately,how quickly she arrived at the truth only to be suddenly stopped by a force beyond her control,Dahlia. Also showed us a bit of light in Edgeworth when his arrogant facade began to break down as Fawles drank the poison. Feel like youre really taking the case too much at face value.
Then let’s give you some food for thought. For what narrative purpose does it serve the game to hide the identity of Dahlia when she was already established, and make you spend MOST of the case trying to get her to come clean as Melissa Foster. It’s honestly a waste of time. The past characters drag down the case instead of make it thrive now that we have i1-4. Nothing is added to their character. They are just there to see the traumatizing scene essentially. And it’s way too late in the game to leave these characters back in the plot device bin. Diego Armando is the worst appearance of Godot, so taking the route of not hiding his identity should’ve been used as just being Godot. (As in his actions and demeanor shouldn’t have changed.) The location is kept to maps. And the pay off isn’t exactly all that worth it. As in 3-5 it’s just seen as, oh that happened here. Very little of 3-4 is seen to the benefit of 3-4 itself. But it builds up 3-1 and of course 3-5. And I wouldn’t have put it above 3-1 even if this wasn’t a combined list. Also that being said, the suicide is a top 5 singular scene. But 1 scene can’t make or break a case. Hope that clears up our opinion.
@@KaempfdogI’m half with ya. I think your opinion on Armando is way off though. It’s necessary for us to see the person that “died” to become Godot for bridge to be as impactful as it is I agree that by itself 3-4 is actually a poor case, but it absolutely phenomenally sets up everything else. The last case you play before the finale shows you the vicious dynamic of dahlia and Mia, easily some of the best villain/defence exchanges we’ve ever had. 3-1 is only as good as it is because when we play it Mia is out for Dahlia’s blood. Godot is only as good as he is because he lost his chance at normal life and true love. Dahlia is desperate to get some form of win after losing twice now. Everything that this case needs to do for the characters, it does. I view this case as the seasoning in the sauce so to speak. It’s not got much meat by itself, and alone it’s not incredible, but in combination with the rest of T and T it is an absolute tour de force
That murder has a lot of coincidences that Acro got really lucky with. Even the monkey somehow carrying a huge bust up a flight of stairs is somewhat hilariously bad.
the murder weapon under the blanket was kinda cool but yeah the whole cape snatched to the bust BS is unbearable, it's one of the very few moments in videogames where i had to stop playing for a moment while thinking "wtf"
1-1 should at least be given props for being a great introductory case both to the game mechanics and the world. I mean imagine if the premise of 2-1 was the first case ever. Imagine how many people would think the entire series was like that and drop it.
Well that’s exactly what credit we give it. But once you play it once, there is NEVER anything left to go back to in all honesty. Every case builds off of it, but because of that, it has the least to it. It was always going to be number 40.
@@abigailc8829 I wish I explained it this way sooner. 1-1 is an empty scale. And even a case with 2 blocks on the bad side and 1 block on the good side is better than an empty one. And the intros all place poorly because they often have so much fewer blocks than the rest. It’s more a balance of pros and cons. And the video even goes to make that analogy FREQUENTLY. We just didn’t think of it until later. We want to open the door TO replay these games. Because VERY few people do. And it’s so much more worth it than it seems.
Dude this is probably the most epic ace attorney case countdown (including both parts since I've watched both of them) I've ever watched it was great to have a second commentator and I think if you put more content on here I really think you can get going you need more praise from these 2 video ALONE!
@@megarotom1590 I guess it kind of is but not in the same way that something like El Tigre’s slip up was Ron DeLite was absolutely insisting that he was Mask DeMasque so that would give him a solid reason for having a Mask DeMasque costume, and that’s probably how Luke Atmey thought he was going to weasel his way out of it, but he didn’t take into consideration just how smart Phoenix would be in tearing his story apart Meanwhile El Tigre described in detail what the bottle of poison looked like in front of everyone, despite the fact that literally only the killer would know that information So yes, Atmey did slip up but not in the same way that El Tigre did
@@diggitydog998 Oh yah, Tigre's was WAY worse. He's like "that's not the bottle of poison, the brown one's the bottle of poison" at which everyone faceplanted at.
@@Multi-Waves_Music but does that feeling stick on revisits? Because that’s why 1-1 was never even debated it belonged at #40. Every single character in this case is better elsewhere.
@@Multi-Waves_Music that’s why we love 4-4 so much. People write it off because it’s so messy. But if you look at it closely, all the info you need IS there. It’s just…not organized. Much like Phoenix in that case. So I organize it for people.
Actually I love the intro case of Spirit because of just how high the stakes are. They're much better imprinted on you than in other cases where the DC Act also gets involved. You lose, Phoenix DIES.
I disagree with the place of 1-1, much like the winged fat demon in Demon's Souls tutorial it is the perfect introduction to what the series entails and what you can expect from now on regardless of what game comes next. Also, having Mia go to being that image of your tutor and protector to not being at all right aftewards was pretty neat to me at the time, and the game built her up nicely in 1-1 to me
Here's one thing I've not heard discussed so far about 2-3. So, Acro feels bad for having killed Ringmaster Berry, not just because he wasn't his target but also because of how much he appreciated the man taking him and his brother in off the street. ... Buuuuut how does he think he'd feel after finding his daughter murdered? This is something that's always bugged me about that case, aside from the other stupid stuff like everyone thinking Max can actually fly.
Yeah, it was a very poorly thought out murder, and if everything went according to his plan, it would’ve been very catastrophic for everyone at the circus, including himself The Ringmaster was a very kind and generous man that loved his daughter a hecking lot, so losing her like that would’ve made him fall into a spiral of sheer negative emotions, and that combined with Max getting arrested and found guilty of murder, would’ve lead to the circus closing down all the way Leaving the circus staff homeless and/or unemployed, and Bat could’ve been left to die, so it could’ve backfired horribly just like Regina’s peppered bandanna prank
I just watched the anime adaptation of 2-3, and it’s definitely the best anime improvement yet. Improved in most areas, if not all. There are 2 improvements that especially stood out to me: 1. That Trilo-Regina-Max love triangle was removed. The only remnant of it is Trilo’s ring, which was meant for Regina, but it was never mentioned as an engagement ring. 2. Regina’s breakdown, after learning the truth, happens in court, and she even tries to take the blame in Acro’s place. Much more emotional than in the game imo.
Hiya, just wanted to share my appreciaten for this video. The quality of this video is amazing. Even though this back-and-forth on the same cases is somewhat rare, I really do love it. Also that not just 1 person attacks the case, while the other defends. However both share your look on them. Good mic qualities, and feels natural when talking.
@@Kaempfdog I had been watching parts of this video, matching which games I had played, after I completed one of the games, i'd go back and watch the explanations for those cases. This means I watched the videos throughout 1 and a half month. (As I had no intent of playing the 3DS games since my 3DS died on me a while ago). The 2 perspectives (on each case) are my favourite part of this for sure. It's something you don't see to often, and yet you 2 made it work really well. While I might not agree with everything on the list, of course, that lies with opinions, and stuff I value in these types of cases. I still really did enjoy listening to you guys' reasonings.
I think I would put I1-3 higher for the singular moment of proto badger knocking Edgeworth out from behind in the creepiest way possible. I found the setting funny because it feels to me that they are fully aware of how unappealing it is, and how creepy Blue Badger is. Point absolutely stands with the case specific characters they sucked.
One of my favourite unmentioned things about 2-3, the Turnabout Big Top, is the twist of how Edgeworth worked from the shadows to help Phoenix win. When Gumshoe and Franziska launch their surprise raid on Acro, I honestly believed that she launched it in order to hide the evidence in order to win (her taking Bat's scarf from us certainly didn't help against that assumption). The recess scene when Gumshoe gives us the scarf back however makes it clear that there were some things happening behind the curtains, as we get this great dialogue: Gumshoe: Look, details are on a need to know basis. And we're not really allies or anything... but everything that's happened in court until now has gone according to our plan. Maya: I don't know... Ms. von Karma didn't seem in control of things in there just now... Gumshoe: You'll figure it out eventually, pal... Yesterday, our final plans were set into motion. Phoenix: "Final plans"...? Gumshoe: Uh huh. That reminds me... I've got a message from the prosecutor for you. "Nothing is ever truly decided until the very end." That's it. And that's it for me too, pal. I'm outta here. That made me preemptively wonder whether the twist was going to be that Franziska had been trying to catch Acro too. However, when Acro confesses, it's revealed that Franziska had nothing to do with it. Maya: I can't believe that Von Karma thought that far ahead... it's amazing! Phoenix: Uh huh... You definetly couldn't tell by looking at her. I know I sure couldn't. Franziska: ...I can't believe it... I... Failed! Why did I order a surprise search of your room...? If only I hadn't done that... At that point I kind of started to suspect who the prosecutor working with Gumshoe was, though it didn't make the final reveal any less enjoyable. ???: I see... What made the case? Gumshoe: Yesterday's surprise raid. It really paid off, just like you said it would, sir. Umm... you had it all figured out, didn't you? ???: It was just a theory... If Acro really was the killer, I thought this was the only way it could end. Especially if "he" was the defense attorney... Gumshoe: You mean Mr. Wright? ???: Of course... Well, detective, my plane is about to leave. As for Mr. Acro's case, you need not worry. I plan to personally stop by the Chief Prosecutor's office as soon as I get back. *cue the Edgeworth in airport reveal* Gumshoe: Understood, sir. I'll be waiting for you... Mr. Edgeworth! Now it might have been just me being oblivious during my first playthrough of the Big Top, but noticing all of the hints of Gumshoe being in cahoots with a certain cravat-wearing prosecutor made the Big Top so much more enjoyable for me during replays.
I just finished Turnabout Ablaze and wow is it a mixed bag. There were some genuinely awesome moments with trying to figure out what actually happened, and Shi-Long-Lang being consistently amazing, but then the game puts you through the same thing over and over again : - You find a flaw in Alba's testimony. - He doesn't care because it's not definitive enough and is about to leave (which what the fuck, he has admitted to murdering someone and tampering with a crime scene, has his ambassador powers revoked but that's still not enough to AT LEAST arrest him as a criminal and THEN look into the smuggling ring ?). - Someone comes up with the most random piece of evidence / testimony he has to answer to. - Repeat step 1. I know that having to present definitive evidence here and now is something the AA series does a lot, but here it just cycles through that at least 4 times. Taking him down isn't even that satisfying because it's all thanks to a very conveniently placed blood drop on a random samourai dogs box that wendy oldbag randomly picked up and randomly decided to give to edgeworth at that particular time. That is NOT how I enjoy taking down killers.
XD watch our worst character review. Nearly point by point is the same thoughts on Alba. i1-5 is right along with the other mixed bags of ace attorney cases. The Yatagarasu story is AMAZING. And we have high praise for MANY high points. But it’s low points are ROUGH.
40:23 The Japanese names of the Khura'inese characters are even more obvious puns in Japanese, where they're just Japanese words written in in katakana. At least Puhray Zeh'lot has the double meaning of "zealot".
Really? I did want it higher but it never would’ve left the bottom half and definitely wouldn’t have made it out of the cluster of intros for me. Maybe 1 or 2 higher. Mainly because I1-4 exists and that is just a MUCH better use of the younger characters. Also I can assume there are other cases that the placement surprised you. It did for us too making the list.
@@Kaempfdog one thing that has hurt it over time is that every analyst brings up the "Inversion from 3-1" angle that has been beaten into the dirt. But fresh for the first time, amazing. Maybe it's not your scale, but I think "Would you like to talk about it" is a pretty good metric. I'm entertained thinking about it even now, whereas I haven't thought of some (e.g. 6-3) since I played them
@@hundredpercentjuice well the 2nd trilogy doesn’t have nostalgia backing it up for most people. So it takes a bit more arguing as to how good it is in the metric of the series. I mean as I’ve seen people comment to me, this went from a let’s discuss the series to you should REALLY replay the series because it’s DEFINITELY just as intended to be great on multiple play throughs as a single one. You catch so much more foreshadowing, details, jokes, and lots of cool stuff when you’re looking for things. That’s why 3-4 doesn’t hold up. It’s not a very rewarding one to poke around even if the last 2 minutes will NEVER stop being traumatizing. And when you think about it, ONLY the reverse perspective for 3-4 to 3-1 is talked about other than the suicide because there is next to nothing else to talk about and catch. You’ll never forget it regardless. And both me and my brother still talk highly OF those 2 minutes.
Cool video, and it highlighted something to me that I never think about for games of this nature: replay value. I find these games to not have any replay value at all, so it was interesting to hear that cited as a reason for liking aspect of certain cases (while I think it’s inconsequential, considering the narrative-heavy nature of these games).
With me, It’s hard to take replay value into consideration because when I replay a case right after I know what the story is and all that it just feels very boring to me
Thank you so much for not putting Turnabout Bigtop at the very bottom! Seriously, that case is WAY over hated, people always saying it's the worst case ever and it really isn't. I don't care what rank you put it at, the fact that it's not #40 automatically makes me respect you.
It's amazing how much work you two put into this one! Listening to your banter is fun and I couldn't really imagine a person in a monolgue pulling it off like this. And yes; we always need more Ace Attorney discussion videos. And I think with that, I'll leave a bit of my own opinion on the cases as well! Although I am definitely a bit biased when it comes to Trials and Tribulations, as that was my first game (played 3-1 to 3-3 and then went in order from the beginning) #40 and 39: Agreed. Both intro cases, both didn't get to do much interesting things (although 2-1 certainly had more fun moments, ideas and general presentation) #38: I don't know if I would have put this one that low, but I agree it was a bit of a slog. I likewise really don't care much for the badgers and thought both the murderer and the story were a bit of a letdown. I was also under the impression the whole thing with Ernest Amano would go deeper and be an actual part of the story of the game, maybe in terms of Edgeworth dealing with his past and past corruption? Definitely a letdown on replay #37: Yeah... as much as I love the ending of the case, I agree with it being more tedious than interesting overall. I generally tend to be annoyed with cases that have long stretches like this where you have information that will turn the case around, but have to wait to present it while having to sort out something way less interesting. #36: Agreed, though I might have put it just a little higher. It's fun because it's short and to the point, but it doesn't have much else to offer. #35: Agreed. Parts of it a bit tedious and slow, but overall a nice introduction to Spirit of Justice. #34: Might have put this one a little lower because I keep forgetting about all the details of this one. The therapy session was really fun though. #33: My introduction to the whole franchise. As such, I am quite attached to it, but I agree it isn't really stronger than any of the following cases. Offering the cough medication to Payne was so satisfying. Plus this one also had the chronologically first instance of "Phoenix should not have survived this but somehow he did". The foreshadowing is great. #32: I am a bit biased as someone who has an interest in Rakugo Storytelling and loved Uendo (as well as some of the references to classic Rakugo Stories), but I agree the case didn't add much overall. The client was annoying and you didn't care about him. I kinda thought the murderer was a little sympathetic, but mostly near the end of the case. I may have just put it a liittle higher. #31: Agreed, especially with all your criticisms. Although I would like to add that I thought the ending was fitting because it illustrated that Phoenix still isn't quite there yet as a lawyer and still needed his mentor to help him out. #30: Agreed! Klavier was really fun, and all the stuff with Lamiroir was cool, but all of the parts involving the serenade in and of itself were tedious. And on replays especially when you already know it doesn't matter much it just drags. Wish we could've gotten more spotlight on Lamiroir, too, but that was probably planned for another game that never came to be. Reminds me that I generally liked the writing in Apollo Justice, but felt they were experimenting with gimmicks a little too much. #29: Agreed, not much to add. Good case, but the series just has better to offer. #28: I replayed this one fairly recently and yeah... might have put it a little lower. The court sections were fun, the investigation sections dragged and the characters exclusive to this case were a mixed bag. Although I thought Apollo involuntarily following in Phoenix' footsteps with his "presenting important evidence to the main suspect" was a fun little detail. #27: Agreed, don't have anything to add. #26: Big, big agree. This one was just so tedious and kind of boring at stretches. I remember very little about all the details both when it comes to the case details and locations. #25: Might have even put this one a little higher as it REALLY nailed the immersion aspect (save for the Khu'rain names being what they are... yes you get used to it upon replays, but I still remember my initial disappointment with most of them very vividly). And I liked Rayfa as a companion, too, giving some culture and attitude, but also questioning herself. It may be cliché, but I thought she was handled well here. Though I also agree Spirit of Justice has the worst prosecutor who isn't any fun and just annoying. Although my brother played alongside me for a bit and voiced him with an over-the-top indian accent, that way we still had a lot of fun with him. #24: Might have actually put this one a bit higher as well. I really liked Ray and Sebastian instantly (for the most part), thought the prison was a fun place to investigate and liked all of this cases characters. The returning ones may not be at their strongest just yet, but I still had a lot of fun with them. #23: Liked this one too, though I might have put it a little lower. It stylistically calls back to the older games a lot and I quite liked that, and it has both really touching and really fun moments. Though I also tend to forget a lot of the details (other than how poor Athena was held at an arms length) and agree that it isn't that strong as the "final case for now" of the franchise. Both of the DLC cases kinda share that and if possible, it seems to be best to play them in the middle of the game on a replay (because otherwise they can be spoilery). #22: I agree, this one is an absolute classic. It flows nicely, the characters are all really fun, as are the writing and the dialogue. #21: Aah, my first proper case, definitely would have put this one higher. It might have a lot of little annoyances, and I remember getting stuck several times, but all of the characters really hit home for me and the story has just the right mix of twisted and straightforward. Another case that comes to mind when I think of cases that are quick, fun and easy to replay.
Jeez! I’m impressed! This is a me level comment! Like the way that even though you never said the case # (and I admittedly don’t have the order memorized as it’s not mine exclusively, especially the bottom half.) I could always tell which case you were talking about. The ONLY case I would’ve changed position for the video proper was 2-1. Which I was just a TOUCH too harsh on. (Our opinion of i1-3 is understandably VERY low, but we just can’t look past the mistakes, most of which you mentioned.)
@@Kaempfdog Yeah, I think even after you work on a project like this for so long there's basically bound to be a position or two that you would change around in retrospect. And yeah, I-3 definitely is one of the weakest cases of the whole series. From what I remember, there were instances of a major leap in logic here and there as well, which may not be exclusive to this case but doesn't help when the case already isn't that fun or engaging.
For #29, the only reason I didn’t like it was because of the tragedy involved with the killer’s motivation. Not just because someone got into a coma, but mainly because a lion got killed for something that wasn’t his fault to begin with. I’m the type of guy that hates cruelty to animals more than cruelty to humans, so that part hit me too hard to like this case that much.
Well if you remember 5-6 Orla would’ve been put down no trial if it weren’t for Sasha. So that actually aligns. When animals cause huge harm to people and they’re “pets” they get put down. (Using the term loosely.) Even though the courts didn’t order it, it really wouldn’t have made a difference. Plus they couldn’t release the Lion to the wild due to how old it was anyway. It is sad as hell the poor thing just had that happen, but honestly I think it was unavoidable regardless. Plus the Ringmaster lost his adopted son in that and since they covered it up, I think he may have known Regina was at fault. That’s just a sucky situation. So I don’t blame you for getting wound up.
@@Kaempfdog I agree with the Ringmaster’s suspicion that he knew it was Regina’s fault. After all, he read the note Acro put for Regina to read and immediately knew what it meant. Also, 5-6 gets a pass on that because Ora & Orla didn’t die by the end.
@@JJ_R where would you put 2-3? I’d definitely still say it belongs above the intro cases even with the issues being a bit harder to ignore for others. (Not that I would change anything’s positioning but 2-1 on this list. I think I was a tad too harsh to put it beneath I1-3.)
@@Kaempfdog For me, I’d keep it where it is Disregarding my issue with it, the case feels necessary for world building. I like how it ties to the overarching storyline of Justice for All with Phoenix’s resentment towards Edgeworth being brought up during his conversation with Franziska, the reveal at the end showing that Edgeworth helped Phoenix with the search of Acro’s room, the location allowing Maya to help Gumshoe pinpoint deKiller’s location in 2-4, and the Berry Big Circus itself being mentioned in some points in other cases throughout the series and even playing a part in I2-2. My negatives goes to _some_ things. The lion thing is one thing. Also, while most of the characters are flawed yet help carry the story along, my personal gripe is with the idea that the 31 year old ventriloquist wants to marry the 15 year old animal tamer, regardless of whether or not it’s through his puppet! At least Max is only 21, and I hope he’d have the right mind to wait until she was of legal age to have the wedding (Unless the age of consent is much lower than America…). Also, Pearl is barely in it. Everything else is what’s already been pointed out. The music can get annoying, and the jokes from Moe can wear on you after a while. Funny enough, lots of people complain about the bit with the cape snagging onto the bust, but I don’t mind it that much.
@@JJ_R now THAT is something I like to see. Giving 2-3 a fair chance. Yes the marriage circle is cringe as hell. And the legal age in Japan is 16 if I recall. Which is why no one bats an eye since she would be legal her next birthday. (Even though I could’ve sworn she was 16 in 2-3 but I may be wrong since Max asked Russell, so he may have been going for parent approved which can be done before legal age.) Plus the age gap for Max isn’t big and bothersome like Ben. But I actually think Trilo is a pretty traditional ventriloquist act. Just a smartass aiming to make people awkward and laugh at the awkwardness. Just aged poorly like Moe’s approach with being a clown.
Palaeno is one of my favorite characters in this series. He's a breath of fresh air in a series full of information withholding, lie ridden, son's of bitches that you usually deal with.
This list alone took almost 2 years to make sure it was as fair as possible and all Thats dedication! also even the voice over writing ecs. is pretty cool
While I do say that 37 is a surprise I think that not having 4-2 in the first half is what surprised me the most here. I've heard a lot of people saying it's just boring and has incredibly lackluster characters besides Guy. The list is really intruiging and I'm excited for part 2
Hoo boy. Some people just need to revisit certain cases. 4-2 has AMAZING characters. The only reason it’s seen as poor is because of the case it follows, and Wesley Stickler who is DEFINITELY a case ruined if the jokes don’t land. (But they do land for us and we think it’s hilarious.) As for our #37, I wouldn’t put it up more than 2 spots on my personal list. It truly can’t be held up by the last few minutes alone even if it traumatized everyone for life. Tell me what you think of the 2nd part! I try and reply to every comment I can!
I'm currently playing through Apollo Justice, and I found 4-2 to be a not very great case. The characters aren't really lackluster, but overall it's a boring trial until the end. Wesley is pretty much just Richard Wellington from 2-1 (even has the same problem with a cell phone!) and we get the bit of "my girlfriend is innocent I swear!" from 3-1. Also, Alita is a fairly obvious murderer.
1-1>2-1 imo like 2-1 is just lazy from a writing standpoint at least 1-1 is such a great introduction for beginners and fufills what it needs to 2-1 does nothing but frustrate and is not good for anyone old or new to the series. Additionally even just from writing standpoint 1-1 makes sense and is coherent 2-1 is actually just lazy from a writing standpoint.
I’ll be honest, this video is a ranking video, but with two view points, and almost acts like a political debate, but the political debate is actually good. This is probably, for me, “debeste” ranking video I have watched. It’s that good! Well done you two (also really 6-3 not even in top 20? That’s an interesting choice)!
The First Turnabout being #40 is a crime imo. It is a PERFECT first case. There are BAD cases in this series. I much prefer a perfect but bare-bones case rather than a boring/badly executed case with more content
I get why people say that, but when the case is LITERALLY just a blank canvas with nothing on it, there’s nothing to say what works and what doesn’t. Every other case uses this blank canvas to make something of it, and even if it doesn’t come across as intended or the vast majority people don’t like it, there’s always SOMETHING that stands out that makes it worth it. And that speaks more than a blank canvas. Another analogy is a scale with no blocks says less than a scale with one or two good blocks, but the mass quantity is bad blocks. We aren’t arguing it’s importance, but we ARE arguing why should it be taken as better when EVERYTHING builds and improves off the framework?
To defend the showing the killer trope, i remember seeing in a retrospective that the reason that happens is because the story isn’t a whodunit but rather how did it happen? You aren’t a detective you’re an attorney, you know your client is innocent (most of the time) so the question is how do you prove your client’s innocence.
I personally have a very different view on the writing of 2-3 than you guys do, albeit in a way that's up for interpretation. I have two major problems; first, the likability of the characters starting the case. I've seen people like the progression of people like Max and Moe, and I do too. The problem is that, for what I feel is the entire first half of the case, it's hard to find a likable character. It's very easy for me to see someone saying "Why should I care about these characters" and at that point the case is entirely sunk. The second problem is much worse in my opinion and cannot be solved just by toughing out the character's rough spots: I think Acro is a second example of a character the writers had a completely different intention for the character than how they were received. Acro is the most toxic member of the entire circus, bar none. But the story doesn't treat him as such. From his speech, to his animations, to his breakdown, the writers treat Acro to my eyes as the single most justified killer in the series, when he's arguably not even the most justified killer in the first 2 games alone. And as such, a lot of the writing just feels hollow to me as it feels like a lot of the first half of the case is filled with (sometimes) purposefully unlikable characters characters, and a lot of the second half is busy justifying a killer who I feel is completely unjustifiable.
Only things I can complain about for basically all of ace attorney: why are some investigations so long and irrelevant why are the prosecutors so aggressive why aren’t black psyche-locks used more often, they look so cool and intimidating why is gumshoe not getting all the raises for being such a cool dude Aside from that, good games, good cases, why is the stolen turnabout a thing
The anime did Turnabout Big Top better than the actual game. Change my mind. Also, I thought Datz Are'bal's pun was That's Horrible... I guess it can be both???
I’m actually with you there. (Though I think I need to rewatch it to make sure) And it gave Ben and Trilo character closure they didn’t get. I also love that screaming GORGEOUS is just as fun as screaming FABULOUS. Regardless, 2-3 isn’t as bad as people always claim it is. And I don’t regret it’s placement on the list. Actually I was unaware of the name pun of Datz until my brother told me what it was. Datz is a lot of things. Subtle is the LAST thing anyone would ever call him. So I think it is meant to be That’s a rebel. (I’m pretty bad at noticing name puns and didn’t realize Mia was Missing In Action for YEARS.) And for the record, I pronounced Datz’s name to be That’s Our Ball and assumed it to be pronounced that way. (Which it could be or maybe not. Fictional country names are hard to assume pronunciation.) So I’m honestly open to any multitude of options there.
@@Kaempfdog I didn't expect you to reply to this honestly. Also, the anime made Regina feel less shallow. We get an actual unique yellow speech bubble wailing "HOLD IT!" (Matte!) (I think that's how it's spelled) and it just hit that emotional feel the game tried (and failed) to give. I also didn't know about the M.I.A. pun until today so thanks for that.
@@awildnoviceappears XD my pleasure. I can’t reply to everything but I try REALLY hard to do so while everyone waits for our next list since these are such slow builds. I do need to rewatch the anime. Which I remember being PRETTY bad with what it skipped, and it had the unfortunate timing of being made at the same time as like 4 other anime so it’s animation quality was…not ideal. But it also gave other small moments that were outstanding and I loved them. And honestly, I figured out Mia’s name pun like a few months ago. And I said the letters M I A out loud trying to get my little brother (who is not in our videos) to remember her better. And IMMEDIATELY realized Ace Attorney pulled a fast one on me for years. My older brother laughed his ass off when he saw me make the connection in my head.
See that one is a habit neither of us are likely to break. Even though yes we are aware of the actual pronunciation. We’ve been calling him Go-dot so long it probably won’t be the only video we call him that.
I thought it was Go-doh, kinda like Gogoat, never knew it was supposed to be Ga-doh. (Though I usually say Go-dot because that’s what I initially thought until Pearl “mispronounced” it
@@Primpy I don’t know if the anime is so trustworthy, given how they pronounced Ami. Though Kaempfdog did mispronounce Ini, which surprised me, because of how obvious her name’s origin is.
You know the main reason I like going back and playing the first cases? Because when your first cross examination starts the tell the truth theme starts and it's awesome. My favorite is in 4
There are exceptions. We just don’t like analyzing too much because it is pretty rare for a character not to be a plot device in intros. So it’s before they become the beloved characters we all look fondly on. Plus the killer reveal always stinks. That’s why we love I2-1 and 4-1 so much. Neither have a killer reveal, and the plot device issue is VERY minimal to the point of being unnoticeable. So it’s just good fun.
@@Kaempfdog yea man 4-1 was fantastic and its probably why AA 4 always has been and probably always will be my favorite game in the series. Also I read a long time ago that they do the killer reveal because when you get to that person its a great feeling when you take them down. Its less about justice and more about vengeance almost especially for Mia.
@@amiandivh there are drawbacks for the vengeance route of killer reveals. Red herrings can’t be done. (Hence why 5-2 is PRETTY bad since there’s like 4 and L’Belle as hilarious as he is was already revealed.) And when you can’t do red herrings or fake outs, making the case complex is a lot more difficult. You aren’t putting together a mystery and get big a-HA moments. That’s why every killer reveal case doesn’t end in the top half with the exception of 4-4. But that one you already knew dang well you weren’t done with Kristoph and he just hung over the story. And when he did come back, it wasn’t revenge for anyone but Phoenix, but to Apollo and Klavier it was WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO?! Which was why 4-4 is so dang unique from other killer reveals.
I came to terms a long time ago with the fact that I'm one of the few people who genuinely enjoyed everything about Turnabout Big Top. I actually liked the music, and I enjoy the overarching theme of a dark underbelly hiding under all the glitz and glamour. It's actually one of my favorite cases to the point that I often mistakenly think it's in T&T, my favorite game of the original trilogy. I don't recall having much issue with most of the characters outside of Regina. Regina always rubbed me the wrong way, but I think she's supposed to; she's got her head in the clouds as a circus princess and was not just unintentionally insensitive as a result, but actually gave me some borderline horror vibes- someone who believed so strongly in that showbiz fairy tale that she really could do some horrible things to people as a result. And Acro has one of the more tragic motives as a result I feel. It was an innocent prank gone wrong and became a tragic accident. One girl's delusion is another man's slap in the face. And all that twisted circus drama accidentally killed the one man everyone genuinely cared for. I do understand why a lot of people don't like the case. It can be really gross and annoying on the surface level, but reading between the lines reveals a twisted tale and some interesting character dynamics that I think works well as an ace attorney game as you uncover more circus secrets. Except for Max Galactica's three stupid symbols. Proving those several times over with audience participation was a pain in the rear.
@@Kaempfdog It's difficult to say as I haven't touched any of the games recently, nor done the marathon's worth of back to back research-slash-memory refresher that you guys have done for this video. But I guess if I were to split this whole thing into four parts (Worst of the Worst, Best of the Worst, Worst of the Best, and Best of the Worst), I personally would stick it in the upper end of the Best of the Worst tier, if not the lower end of the Worst of the Best tier. Just off the top of my head, I'd probably swap it with Stolen Turnabout. Subjectively speaking, of course. As for general standpoint, I do understand where people are coming from and why it's disliked. But it is all preference and perspective in the end. It's a fair analysis for disliking it, and I think what turns most off from the case are the very reasons I enjoy it. One man's trash is another man's treasure and all that.
I’m immediately drawn to this video because the last place spot was NOT Big Top Turnabout and instead First Turnabout. I’m not sure I entirely agree, since sometimes I feel active frustration with a REALLY bad case is worse than just being standard and predictable, but I LOVE THAT REASONING ANYWAY?? I really respect that the worst cases still have things to offer in your opinions and, because of this, they should be ranked higher. That’s an opinion I respect dude EDIT: Seeing the good even in the worse cases??? Awesome!!!
I give you a thousand kudos for getting EXACTLY what we were doing with this. (Had to justify #37 a thousand times over.) We went into all the details we could find and it made these cases even more enjoyable than the 1st time we played them. So worth becoming vets of a series NO ONE becomes vets of. XD
my personal gripe with turnabout bigtop is how weirdly nonce-y everything is in it. i played the games completely out of order as a teenager due to just picking up whatever i could find at used game stores, so i played apollo justice, then trials and tribulations, then pw:aa and then finally justice for all. by the time i managed to find jfa (over a year after finishing pw:aa) i was just super excited to play another ace attorney game and my only issues with the case was how it seemed to go on a bit too long and that i personally didn't really like max galactica enough to really want to defend him. however trying to replay the game as an adult 10+ years later i just could not get over how creepy the age difference between regina and her suiters is. bat is the closest in age to her and he's still in his early 20s. it just really made me uncomfortable trying to defend a man in his mid-late 20s who wants to marry a teenager. a teenager who Acts like a teenager. a teenager who's kind of dumb and doesn't really understand what's going on in the world. a teenager whose dad totally didn't care that his employees in their 20s and 30s all wanna fuck his daughter. a teenager who definitely doesn't understand why any of that is wrong in the first place. it totally threw me because i didn't remember it being that big of a deal the first time i played it. i know the age of consent is different in japan, shit im from the uk so the age of consent is lower here than it is in america, but that still didn't make it any easier to slog my way through a case where multiple completely unlikeable grown ass guys talk about how they wanna marry someone who i now would 100% describe as a child. other than that the case wasn't actually as slow paced as i remembered it being, but it definitely felt wildly out of place w regards to the rest of the game. franziska's still great tho so that makes up for it i guess.
1:23 somewhat unrelated but can you even consider Apollo justice as the start of a second trilogy? Apollo justice and duel destinies are hardly related. In the grand scheme of things, Apollo justice is kinda a one off game, and Duel destinies is the start of the "3ds duology"
Honestly, I dont have any complaints about any of these rankings, except I 1-5. It would be in place number 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Yeah it's the final one in the series. Yeah its satisfying to take Alba down. But its too damn tedious. You already know three steps ahead what needs to be presented, but my fucking god dont present them in order and its game over. The two new people are forgettable and the main villain isnt even good writing wise. -1000/10, watch Jelloapocalypse play it instead.
I think you're missing the point of the killer reveals in the beginning cutscenes. I get it takes away the mysteries, but I think the point is not who the killer is, but how you'll take them down. Love the video, great list so far :)
And that’s all well and good but there’s an issue with that since there’s only 2 killers that you actually prepare to take down. Redd White and Kristoph Gavin. That’s why reusing killers is not so bad as it also lets a new aspect of not who did it, but WHAT DID YOU DO?! The killer reveals only take the direction of how to take them down ONCE in 4-4. And I personally love that. (4-4 is my personal #8.) But the rest don’t take that story approach. Not even Redd White. It entertains the idea April May is the killer when we SAW the opening cutscene. It’s entertaining a red herring when the killer was established. That’s 5-2’s largest flaw. If you want to show how untouchable a killer is and it needs preparation, you do it in cases with investigations, where you prepare the cases yourself, no red herrings, but no evidence matters until you find ways to whittle down the killer enough.
Do you disagree with our argument? Even if it was mine alone, I would’ve simply put it up 1 or 2 spots. Ultimately he was right from my perspective. The last 2 minutes can’t carry an entire case. Plus I1-4 utilizes past characters WAY better, and without investigating you don’t get to appreciate the foggy and tranquil atmosphere at the Temple which is sadly relegated to maps. And there’s no Apollo Justice simulation from 4-1 and 4-2. So we consider it a missed opportunity. I still think 3-1 is better.
@@Kaempfdog cool opinion but nah 3-4 to me is such a banger but i have weird opinions lmao eg turnabout serenade and the monsterous turnabout are some of my favorites in the series as well as ablaze. Also a really weird thing about this video is that to me the most important part to me is the murder method and what really puts a case into that top tier but this was rarely brought up, like ablazes mystery is just so amazing with the crossbow and fountains and what makes me love it! amazing video
@@themonoworth96 well if you can remember the details really well from I1-5 I give you my kudos. Even with my REALLY in depth analysis I had trouble pinning things down for that finale which is ultimately the issue. My brother would wait a few weeks for me and try and get everything regarding certain cases. Which was…difficult for I1-5. I’m pleased you enjoy 5-2 and 4-3. I ultimately enjoy both cases a lot, but they did make a few mistakes I couldn’t ignore even if I consider them pretty minor. Like 5-2’s obsession with red herrings and how they do NOT work with a revealed killer. (Even though I really enjoy L’Belle.) 4-3 focused on a single red herring SO LONG it feels like you’re spinning your wheels the whole case. The fact that the newspaper of Borginia just said: Yeah that’s a theory at best. Is honestly REALLY telling halfway through the case. And you hold onto the lyrics theory until Daryan is on the stand.
We need to replay the crossover proper because those characters made it to other lists. We do plan on covering DGS separately. But that takes time and SHIT tons of analysis.
yeah, it's very interesting because the first game by itself just does not stand alone, but taken together the games are marvelously cohesive and tell an interesting story, if not one as emotionally resonant as Trials and Tribulations. but it's mechanically sound, the least gimmicky modern Ace Attorney games, and has great character writing especially from the leads.
@@dvillines26 I had to remove your main comment man. Sorry bout that, but there was a tad too much for DGS that was spoilers and I haven’t played it yet.
first i know this is your guys option and i respect that but i have to give my own 8:13 This case being this low is an absolute crime I love how it further portrays Dahila as this evil person and in this case, you see how much absolute psycho she is how she is able to manipulate people and how she only cares for herself the defendant is tragic although love blind how her and her sister used him for there own gain and disposed of him letting him rot in jail with a life sentence is crazy and to me is awsom writing there nothing in my mind that can convince why this case with the combined effort of you 2 is the 3rd worse
It seems to me like an uncommon opinion to say there's replay value in a mystery visual novel. If there was funny rare bits or aha nods or connections that's one thing. But I'd be the kind of person to rate cases by how I felt about them initially. These types of impressions matter the most here.
Some of these cases do have replay value, not all of them though, any of the TGAA cases don't since they last so long, but the shorter ones in the rest of the series is like reading your favorite chapter of a book again.
I1-5 is such a funny case, but funny just does not correlate to fun in this case Half the damn case is just “We have like, 1000 pieces of evidence that you killed The Guy” “Diplomatic Immunity lol”
I’m always happy to admit the positives of i1-5. And it’s DEFINITELY hilarious. Between Larry, Wendy Oldbag, Ambassador Palaeno, and of course Gumshoe and Kay, you got SO MUCH fun stuff. And the drama of the Yatagarasu is very compelling. And while Quercus Alba is a NIGHTMARE, he is still a great villain even if he LONG overstays his welcome. i1-5 appreciation is always good to see.
I…think I’m afraid to ask about why Geiru Toneido is suddenly a person everyone is talking about. And there is literally one reason I can think of considering it’s not her backstory.
Just realized that the wedding case was basically a call back to the very first ace attorney case: a murder where the murder weapon is a strange clock and Larry is involved.
This is great, but it does always bum me out whenever characters with DID (uendo) are called nuts or crazy. Still great discussion, just a gripe with that as DID and other dissociative disorders are widely misunderstood and stigmatized, which is upsetting to fall into time and time again with Murder mystery type stuff. Ah well, at least ace attorney didn’t go the danganronpa route with DID
You both have interesting and unpopular opinions here and there but honestly that (+ your passion for the series) is what made this worth watching. Great video.
you know, i loved these games, especially the phoenix wright games, but id rather watch the anime dub than replay the games, even if some of the memorable moments are scrapped. the characters have amazingly good picks for the voice actors and its very fun +it has the the MOST ANIME anime openers ever, that might not make much sense but you just have to watch them.
I can't believe you don't even mention Cody going on a Lockeian rant about the purpose of trade in society. It's one of my favorite moments in the game
Oh shit, I didn't realize the pun was Prays A Lot, though it makes sense with what how they described him. I thought it was Pray Zealot, which made me sus him as the killer/villain from minute one and I felt justified when he was exactly that. Maybe it was a double pun, but we know SoJ doesn't do that.
Alright so I watched this part, and I will give a detailed view on it. This time, with a tier list on how the case did than it was expected. (SPOILERS) 40- The First Turnabout- Same spot as I would put it. It's replay value is the lowest for obvious reasons. It is the easiest case too with the least substance. BUT BUT don't get me wrong. This case is fantastic and it gets a A from me on how it did than it was expected. In fact, Phoenix stopping Larry from speaking, that kind of choices should have been given more ahead in the cases. And also this case does the perfect Job on hooking the viewers to the game, still lowest because this case has been topped in every way, still I love it. 39- The Lost Turnabout. I would put it here too. It is way too easy. The only problem is that it is way too easy. And Wellington is slightly irritating. But asides from that this case is really good. Easy but technically has more substance and 'difficulty' than 1-1. The humor in this case is quite great too. Gumshoe's crush on Maggey is executed well. Nothing else to say actually. Tier is B- since I expected it to do better. 38- The Kidnapped Turnabout-I hate this case. And I would put it here too. Way too long, way unnecessary content like the Badgers, Oldbag, Ema(Not bad but Ema wasn't well executed). Shi- Long Lang and Kay Faraday saved the case from being a complete failure, and even then I would give this case an E on it's expectations. The side characters are the worst. The Amanos and the victim suck, as their music and this case. A missed opportunity by the makers 37-Turnabout Beginnings. Alright here I would swap places with Turnabout Visitor. The replay value of this case is low, but first time play value is awesome. The trial was kinda dragging in the middle, but when Mia started to have an advantage on Dahlia, it was awesome. The suicide moment is the most memorable actually, sad of course but like yes I remember it exactly till date. I would give this case a grade of A actually, since it set up the finale perfectly. I feel that this case could have had more substance. .. but ok. 36- Turnabout Visitor- I like this case a lot. But still I would put it at 37, since it doesn't have like some super awesome content. Yes it is a good start to the spin-off, the mechanics are cool, the characters are good, but nothing really much memorable. A 'B+' grade from my side. 35- The Foreign Turnabout- I feel like this is an awesome case for a first time, it's replay value is low but the case is really good. The stakes getting raised and the divination seance is cool I must say. I would put Turnabout soba here, and put this case on 33 actually. The characters are decent so yes. 34- Turnabout Countdown. I love this case too. The bombing part is great. The characters are great too. Ted Tonate is good. But characters like Wright, Cykes and Woods have been way well fleshed out ahead. Still it is cool, the mood matrix is awesome, 3rd best mechanic in terms of powers only behind Logic and logic chess. But yes it is an intro case so a grade of B+ from me And 34 rank imo 33-Turnabout memories. Alright I would have this case higher, upto 29th rank I guess(just my opinion). Mia is great, Grossberg is annoying, but still doesn't ruin it for me, Phoenix is hilarious and still executed really well in this case, Payne is somehow better to me in this case and his breakdown is lovely. And of course, Dahlia.... she is Executed better ahead and yet she is awesome in this case. Had this case had investigation and a bit more difficulty along with grossberg being less gross, I would have given this case an S tier. Still it gets an a tier from me. Also because it is important to the story. 32- Turnabout Soba. So apart from Ueendo(sorry for wrong spelling if it is,) and Simon Blackquill, this case is broken. Athena is worse, nahyuta as expected is bad too, the defendant is not great and the killer is just ok. A grade of D. That's it. 31)Turnabout Sisters. I would put it above 4-3 and 2-3 but yes this case isn't all that good. The main characters are there, but they are more better executed ahead, April May is just okay, redd white gets revealed which makes it cheap. And also Mia helping Phoenix in the end, way too cheap. The Bellboy is really good tho. So yes, this case helps set up ahead cases but still really weak. 30)Turnabout Serenade. A case which is overhated but still really bad. This is the case in which Apollo achieved the most, Klavier gets really well expressed, Lamroir is good too. But Ema, Machi are weak. The case has worse logic than 2-3 and the guitar section is so bad. Would put it on 32 and a grade of E. 29)Turnabout big top- The case which is bad but gets way too much hate. The characters are annoying but still have some arc. The case has poor logic but still has it's own moments, the love Triangle SUCKED. And, like not much to say. Would put it on 31. 28)The Monstrous Turnabout- OK so this case is under rated, but still weird. The killer is revealed again! Which also makes putting sus on the girl and his father illogical. The father who is the defendant is well executed. Simon is good, apollo is actually done really well. Trucy and Athena are ok. Oh and also the investigation was way too easy and linear, a problem of DD. 27)Turnabout Airlines-This case is lovely and i would rank it at 26, higher than aai1-5. This case is short, but unique. The characters are really good. Teneiro in particular was done well. Franziska comes back making it good, and the culprit was super fun to cross-examine and expose. Has less substance but no nonsense and must be more appreciated. A grade from me 26)Turnabout Ablaze- I HATE THIS CASE TOO. Way too long, the length wasn't justified, the investigations were boring (despite the fact I prefer INVESTIGATIONS spin-off over the main main tbh..). Quercus Alba was way too tough to take down. It still has it's moments but not enough for me. Hugely disappointed by this one. D grade from me 25)The rite of Turnabout. This case.... just like you both, I have both extremely good and bad feelings for this case. Maya getting accused again is bad, the investigations are great and actually better than trials tbh, Rayfa is good ig. Nahyuta is THE WEAKLING AGAIN! And Datz too isn't fun. The ending part of trial is memorable but else a huge bag of goods and bads. B grade from me 24) The imprisoned Turnabout. I would rank this case above 6-6. I love this case, and just goes to show that even the weakest of AAI2 is awesome. Shields was toxic towards Edgeworth, but you can't really blame him, as the previous Edgeworth was quite bad. Kay is fun too there. Jay Elbird is freaking awesome, his punching sprites make it up and his plan was cool of escaping. Justine Courtney and Sebastian are the weaklings but still better than expected. And what people don't talk about is Miles Edgeworth in this case. Him fighting till the end and turning into bluffing man Phoenix Wright was awesome. And Simon Keyes....... he is there....and yes he is ok too in the case. Dogen is really good here, even though he was executed better. And Patricia is fun too. An underrated case imo 23)Turnabout Time Traveller- This case. ... Athena getting trashes and the culprit in the end ruined this case. But yes, this is a decent case. Maya is good ig, the defendant and her bf are ok, Edgeworth is awesome, the Judge lecturing on the power of love is so hilarious and awesome! And Larry the legend.... his 2nd best appearance imo. A case with both highs and lows. 22) Turnabout Samurai- Yooooo I love this case and glad, that this case is recognized. Apart from investigations, which were decent but Long, the trials are great. Edgeworth is the best here, Maya too is awesome, Gumshow is good too. And the side characters are awesome. Dee Vasquez is good, Wendy Oldbag is damn good, destroyingboth Edgeworth and Phoenix, Will Powers is good ,Cody is good too. Sal Manella does his job ok too. overall an overhated case. 21)The stolen Turnabout- I would have this case on 20 rather, and have recipe for Turnabout here. This case's 2nd half is weaker and the first half is better. The characters are super awesome. Except the last part of the case, it is a pretty solid case. And that wraps it up for this part. Now to formally put my rankings here- 40)1-1 39)2-1 38)AAi1-3 37)AAI1-1 36)3-4 35)6-4 34)5-1 33)6-1 32)4-3 31)2-3 30)1-2 29)3-1 28)5-2 27)AAI1-5 26)AAI1-2 25)6-3 24)6-6 23)AAI2-2 22)1-3 21)3-3(3-2 at 20) An awesome vid I must say will cover up the other part too :)
This is VERY well thought out. Nicely done. Admittedly, 2-1 would’ve move up one for us because it doesn’t deserve the dishonor of being beneath i1-3. Our single regret in the balancing. 3-4 our biggest problem…or rather my biggest was Melissa Foster. It was SUCH a pointless lie. Mia was already established to not know her so the reveal was…nothing. OH MY GOD, IT’S THE PERSON WE KNEW FRAME 1 WHO SHE WAS?! Who would’ve THOUGHT?! Not to mention it added no immersion in comparison to its far healthier partner 3-1. Plus above all else, now that i1-4 exists, the past characters don’t have the same unique level they had before since it was done WAY better there. 6-4 people are a WEE bit too tough on. Athena actually getting people digging into her where it hurts and NOT resulting in a trauma spiral and letting her proper determination show…with a bit of the BEST ENCOURAGEMENT EVER FROM BLACKQUILL. Uendo was great, Geiru was fun but not surprising, and we also did enjoy Nahyuta’s freaking poetry memorization. (And we will cover that EXTENSIVELY later) It was enough unique interactions and although Nahyuta is INFURIATING, it just had more to work with than the intros. So it went above them. 2-3 and 4-3 are just overhated. They truly are not that bad and could utilize your emotions well. And what lacked in side characters was made up for in AWESOME main characters. And yeah there are stick out complaints, but when you REALLY look at them, they are hardly more than nitpicks. Mediocre cases is what they are. Not bad cases.
@@Kaempfdog True 4-3 and 2-3 are overhated. About 3-4, they had to add the Melissa Foster part as Mia then didn't meet Dahlia so yes. A lacking case but still needed to set up the finale. Also yes will update my list soon(as I am a normal human and not super sonic who can cover up things super fast LOL. But yes an awesome video there. Will give my update on my cases too :)
Honestly, kinda sad that many people hatin on Turnabout Ablaze. One of my favourite case of all time. Yes, Quercus Alba is kind of a pain in the ass, but because of that, its fun to see like every character trying to take him down (EVEN THE FORENSIC HAS A "HOLD IT" MOMEN).
We consider i1-5 a mixed bag not a bad case. In terms of the series finales it’s still in our opinion the weakest. It’s high points are RIGHT along the other high points of finales. The Yatagarasu story is AMAZING. And the characters are a LOT of fun. But it’s not organized well and REALLY petered out at the end. But I do admit I genuinely enjoy a LARGE portion of the case. Our grievances are all found in the other review we did. XD
Good lord, storyteller's so high? I can confidently say this isn't going to be a list that I agree with, but that's okay, because that's the beauty of opinions!
Well that one definitely is not a shining example of a good case, but it does have more than an intro case and it had the capability to accomplish red herrings with no killer reveal. Plus Athena and Blackquill are a TREAT working off each other. It needed an investigation of Blackquill and Athena together. That would’ve been hysterical. It BARELY made it out of the intro cluster. And it was freaking close to not.
i actually really liked turnabout storyteller (spoilers ahead), it was one of the most enjoyable cases of aa6 for me. however, i do agree that it's completely pointless to most of the plot and absolute filler (which i think betrays my opinion of the game as a whole haha) i didn't appreciate nahyuta's writing that much, but i liked seeing blackquill and athena working together and to see a character with Disassociative Identity Disorder that isn't a negative charicature (imo). The bait and switch with suspecting the "secret" alter to then revealing he's actually a scared, vulnerable child (as DID forms in childhood from trauma) was a nice turn of events, as many other media use DID as a gotcha for a surprise killer reveal when that's... not how it works and demonizes people with DID. Obviously Uendo isn't the most accurate portrayal, but the liberties they take aren't offensive. You can tell what roles some of the alters play in protecting the host, and his status as a comedian probably influenced how dramatic they are. Athena's characterization is a bit miffy but, whatever. This like for this case probably stems from my desire for Athena and Blackquill to have had their own trilogy. But I understand why others wouldn't enjoy it as much.
6-4 defense is something I’m genuinely and pleasantly surprised to see. I think you’re literally the 1st one in fact. And I’m happy to see you giving out the same wins I did. One of the hardest things about our ranking was giving wins to disliked cases and how it all balanced out. And this one isn’t a WINNER, but it definitely has more than most assume. I worked hard to defend this one where I could. Nahyuta was the BIG ONE that held this case back.
@@Kaempfdog yeah... i totally get where you are coming from and its placement on the list. nahyuta detracts from the entire case, as they do with most of the game (which was disappointing but i digress), and it's also a case that has absolutely no impact in the grand scheme of things. i think it's neat, especially with the handling of DID, but i wouldn't expect it to make it very high on the list either LOL. i was, in turn, pleasantly surprised you defended it as you did, since i haven't seen anyone talk about its good points (understandably so, since the case is surrounded by the main story that has a lot more to dig into). you do a good job with balancing criticism and praise for these rankings! in the end, 6-4 is one that could be completely cut from the game and nothing would change, which sucks for athena and blackquill and only makes nahyuta look even more frustrating.
Investigations is so interesting! The first game has got all these great things it Could do, but never does. It was bad so they don't localize its sequel and just. It does all the things. The first one wanted to do. Character growth, surprising cameos, doing something meaningful with all that lore, and creating interesting cases you couldn't have done with normal Ace attorney gameplay!
Well investigations 1 does have i1-4. And we love it. We generally agree with that statement. Neither investigations game is our favorite, but we both appreciate what they did for the series.
@@Kaempfdog I totally forgot about i1-4! I have no idea what happened there apart from Manfred coming in... So I'll play that one again this weekend! ❤️😁 (This is why I love video's like this! ❤️)
If I recall, the reason Investigations 2 never got localized was because the first didn't sell well overseas, and they figured the sequel would perform the same. Which I get, but it's a shame when the sequel is so much better than the first.
I don’t get the hate for 3-4 that your brother states in the video. Dahlia’s testimonies were tedious? I don’t think so, they were all pretty easy honestly. Something tedious would be one of Moe’s testimonies that punished you for pressing along with needing to press a single statement twice with no indication you had to do so. Boring setting? It’s literally the same setting as 3-5, (albeit just the bridge area, but then again the case is very short) I don’t see how you can call the setting here boring and 3-5 not boring. Unsubtle foreshadowing? What? The case mainly explained the mysteries behind Dahlia and her connection to Mia and Godot. Likewise, Diego Armando was there to show his connection with Mia, not necessarily to foreshadow. It would’ve been much less effective if in 3-5 Godot just told us his backstory without us seeing his prior self and relationships beforehand. We saw how he impacted Mia firsthand, which is something that simply can’t just be told through text like an anime flashback. Sorry if this came across as snarky or rude but I just don’t agree at all with this placement and the reasons given for its placement aren’t explained well.
Ok. I’ll try and readdress his arguments the best I can. There was no point in hiding Dahlia’s identity for such a short case so you’re spinning your wheels getting to the point where you know who she is when she was ALREADY introduced in 3-1. So that was dumb. The boring setting is more because instead of the WONDERFUL atmosphere of 3-5 it is ENTIRELY relegated to maps. And no added context but very simple descriptions despite the large area covered. And it’s all relegated to the bridge. But the bridge is hardly the only thing involved. The mentions of other aspects are cut to mere statements to focus on the bridge again. 3-4 is Godot’s least impressive appearance and he’s just…there. He doesn’t act invested in the slightest other than in his Mia condescending until the end. And it’s just…not ideal. Not our best explanation won’t deny. But everything in 3-4 other than the suicide is more to 3-5’s benefit that it’s benefit.
@@Kaempfdog Dahlia hiding her identity was 100% for the characters in-game and not the player, so I can understand the frustration, but I don't think it was done poorly. The case still uses it's time wisely between the kidnapping and the murder. Knowing Dahlia's identity beforehand means that it isn't an issue for the player to progress through the main mystery of the case despite Mia not knowing who she truly is. If we didn't know who she was beforehand, there would've had to have been a bigger emphasis on her identity in general which likely would've taken away from other aspects of the case. The bridge is only the main focus because it has a lot of history behind it with the kidnapping and the recent murder. It does help setup the bridge in 3-5 so I can see where your issues with it are, and although it may be less interesting than 3-5, I don't think that makes it not interesting at all. Same with Godot, even if this is his most boring appearance, it's not boring itself at all. We get to learn that he's not just some faceless guy behind a mask, but that he had an actual life and aspirations. We get to see his great sense of pride in himself. He smashes a coffee cup with his bare hand, causing him to bleed, out of frustration for indirectly causing a murder. And the whole way through, he smiles because of his pride, and we get the origin of the quote "the only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over." I think him saying this line singlehandedly makes this case one of his better appearances, as his tears in 3-5 would've meant nothing hadn't he said it. No other case exposes his character like this. Although it's more or less a setup case, I think it's the best setup case in the series, as it still has it's own interesting plot and shining character moments, as well as it's own remarkable resolution (albeit bittersweet).
@@brendanhughes5679 and that’s your opinion. What really takes the wind out of the sail of 3-4 for us is i1-4 which SO much better utilizes past characters and truly creating the paths we know and love. Plus for the best build up case for 3-5 we went with 2-2. I think 3-4 is great, but for a setup, I just wish it did more. I’m happy you got so much more out of it than we did. But most of what you say in the fundamentals doesn’t work for us as it does for you. (Except the coffee mug breaking. That we include in the suicide scene because THAT is RIGHT along with the impact and we adore it.)
I always thought Courtney isn’t usually a hypocritical and biased person, but instead she’s testing Edgeworth to see how he reacts and compare it to how she feels a prosecutor should react.
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FYI, the Khura'in names were NOT the localizations fault. The JP names are literally just random Japanese words written in Katakana to denote them as foreign, the ENG names are actually a very direct adaptation.
I didn’t mind the names, I enjoy when AA gets campy. They sounded kinda like drag queen names, just super on the nose puns.
Recently learning japanese I understand of what you mean. Thx for pointing out!
@@handsoaphandsoap up GUI if ui is u if iû has hi
the english names are puns, the japanese names are gibberish?
@@sakura368 basically, and that is in all the saga if we don't took account the protagonists/associates names.
Regarding 3-2, there's a pretty major translation error that I think people should be more aware of.
During the scene where they discuss Pearl's backstory, Phoenix says this about Morgan:
"She's currently serving a prison term in isolation..."
This is, uh, very wrong. This is what the Japanese ACTUALLY says.
"‥‥刑務所の独房で、 刑の執行を待っている‥‥"
Translated: "...In a solitary prison cell, she now awaits for her punishment to be carried out..."
Yeah, Morgan isn't "serving a prison term" like the ENG states, she's on death fucking row, waiting to be executed. This is further shown by what Maya says, while she says "right now" in ENG, in the JP she says もう, literally just "now"; because Morgan ain't coming back. You know that bit in 3-5 when she talks about her "final wish" and the text goes red? That's HEAVILY implied to be her final thoughts as she dies.
How's THAT for a fun fact?
Do you have any idea how impressive this is? I had to actually go back and remember some aspects to bring to this.
They REALLY take attacks on the Master of Kurain seriously. It’s not like Morgan didn’t deserve it. She was revealed to have found her own niece expendable. Plus she tried to kill Dahlia in prison. And they had no reason to transfer her from Solitary Cell 13. I knew what happened to her when Kristoph received that cell.
If anything Mimi would’ve gotten a lighter sentence due to her circumstance and would’ve been charged with negligence on top of that for the 14 patients. Even if Mimi committed 1st degree murder. Technically it was all to stay in hiding rather than an explicit attack on Maya. Even if she did drug her. The whole attack on Maya was specifically Morgan’s plot.
Godot likely got the death penalty for the same reason. An attack on the Master. Attacking civil servants yields to SERIOUS punishment. Especially one of such renown to their government for them to trust with DL-6.
@@Kaempfdog Godot was protecting Maya, the future Master, from an evil ghost trying to kill her, that just happened to be using Misty's body for complicated reasons. That's voluntary manslaughter, not cold murder.
In general, though, it's more that the Japanese is FAR more insistent about implying the death penalty than the ENG. They never once use "go to prison" as a phrase for murder charges (just the lighter charge Lana, Adrian, Ron and Iris face, though Ron avoids his on technicality), and there are frequent allusions to characters dying if you fail (Maya saying that she dodged death "three times" in JFA's credits, for example). Godot IS implied to be dead, as he's with Mia and Misty in the final shot of T&T, but that's more in the symbolic sense that his life is concluded, so he can pass on peacefully (it's a Buddhist thing).
@@rainspectre3153 well done. That is one hell of a good take. I’ve been calling it murder this whole time because Godot specifically created those circumstances. But yeah voluntary manslaughter is a much better description. Also I did forget that it’s the Japanese system a lot more insistent on that.
@@rainspectre3153Hmm… what about Maggie Byrde in 3-3? She gets found guilty(might as well have been by your hand since everyone was so thoroughly duped), but a month later she’s still chilling in prison. Was there something different about her circumstances somehow? Or does it just take a while for the death sentence to be carried out?
@@rainspectre3153 Actually no, it's rare to see culprits or even wrongly suspected people actually getting the death row.
Maya "dodging death three times" is about: when she was framed by Mia's murder, when she could've be killed by Grey (who's carrying a weapon for the channeling session) and when she was kidnapped and nearly starved to death by deKiller. And the first one is understandable if you interpret they find fratricide a very serious offense.
As for the culprits, only von Karma, Morgan and Dahlia are ever confirmed to be dead (von Karma gets a throwaway line from Phoenix to Franziska stating that "revenge won't bring your father back". We even see Sawhit in AAI:2.
Fun Fact: in the very first case if you say that Cindy Stone was hanged, the judge says that he's completely fine with you hanging yourself just not in his court...uh judge...
Man the judge came a long way from ace attorney 1 I love the judge but Nico b version of him makes me love the judge even more
0/10, no mention during Samurai that it's the first ladder vs step ladder argument
Joking aside, I like this list and think it's very neat. Look forward to the 2nd video to see which ones you two really like
Still waiting on ace attorney month....
I don't think the Wendy oldbag twist would have been funnier without her first appearance because then we wouldn't get Edgeworth being mad at it happening two days in a row to him
That sounds fair. And your probably right there.
weirdly enough, I like intro cases, mostly because I feel the investigation sections pretty boring, so I like to run straight to the trials, even if they are simpler.
Well investigations are more used for world building. And using that knowledge in the world you explore is what makes trial sections great when they test you right. That’s my view. And why I feel like most intros are lacking. But it’s not weird to enjoy the intros. They have their own charms. And they clearly CAN blow away expectations depending on preference.
i completely agree. the lost turnabout, for some reason, is one of my favorites
Yeah, that is a big reason why I'm fine with intro cases as well. Investigations often bore me so much, sometimes I just go by the guide to get through them. I remember I wasn't feeling like playing Tunabout Beginnings, because investigating, but then I found out it's a court only case, and was like "Okay, let's do this". So yeah, agreed:-D
@@Kaempfdog That is true and there are interesting bits, but overall I find myself having to skip mountains of texts to find the one item you need, or spending ages flitting from area to area until eventually triggering the one event you need to progress to the next part.
@@Kaempfdog I think its just player preferences. I like the intro cases also a lot (and I was a bit mad that you ranked AA1:1 as your last place :D). Down on my list are often the "middle" cases, who are most of the time not connected to the "serious" arc (same like intro cases) of the game, but have long and exhausting investigation parts (unlike the intro cases). Worst contented for this is the circus case in Justice for All, my personal last place. I also loved 3-4 and would put it in top 20.
"I was hoping to come with a question while I was objecting your honor.
I didn't"
Best bluff in the entire series by a longshot
"April May has been topped multiple times."
Yeah she has!
🤣
What do you-ohhhhhhhhhhh. Figured I’d make an accidental innuendo somewhere.
@@Kaempfdoglol
I am now curious how you'll rank the Great Ace Attorney Chronicles cases in your list now. To be honest, it's one of my favorites in the entire Ace Attorney franchise now.
Same here. Not having played DGS2 yet (I will though) I still can say that DGS1 is one of my top AA games, if not even my favorite game of the bunch! :)
@@maximmillennia Just wait until you play 2. I thought 1 was great but 2 goes so hard. Definitely my favourite in the series.
I know what i'm about to say has nothing to do with anything but since I just finished that part I have to say...
Spoiler
Enoch drebber getting up after being found on the safe is one of the coolest animations i've ever seen in a video game.
I finished Chronicles yesterday and I have to say that despite my love and nostalgia for the original trilogy, I enjoyed chronicles so much more! I absolutely loved the story, characters and setting it introduced and for me the last few cases are the best ones I've experienced in the Ace Attorney series.
@@juliogomesdesouza9035 Agreed xD He honestly became my favourite side character in the series. His story, design, animations and soundtrack were perfect!
I think 3-2 should be ranked higher because it completely twists up the formula, contrary to what you said in script. It has you thinking you’re dealing with a different type of crime for the first half of the case, with your client constantly insisting that he is guilty of the theft. But the first day seems pretty easy, and you corner Atmey and get a confession out of him.
But then you get into the defendant’s lobby, and the whole script is flipped when Godot delivers the news of the murder to you. Suddenly it dawns on you that Ron’s and Atmey’s confessions to theft both make sense - Atmey confessed to theft in the bank so he could be written off for the murder of Kane Bullard by rule of double jeopardy; Ron knew this, and tried to get himself convicted of the theft so that he, who had been blackmailed to go to the scene by the conniving killer, would not himself be convicted of murder.
I don’t think you talked enough about how good of a villain Atmey is, either. He is charming, but not as funny as Tigre; though he makes up for it by being present throughout the entire case, unlike Tigre. He also had a much better, more thought out plan than Tigre, and thus is more satisfying to bring down in my opinion. Though Atmey basically carries this case, since Ron and Desiree are kinda mediocre, so I can understand not ranking this case any higher than #15.
i agree! i love 3-2
I kinda hate on this case but it's definitely not terrible. Though I think the "haha SIKE it's actually murder!" frustrates me a bit more.
What I can't stand about Atmey is how fucking obvious of a culprit he is though. Like, I don't believe there's a single player who went into 3-2 for the first time and didn't IMMEDIATELY suspect him of being Mask DeMasque.
@@midnalazuli793 Sure, but that also helps him. The more obvious he is, the less chance that he’s the murderer. I’m thoroughly convinced he cranked up every annoying part of what he does just for that instance. Atmey’s genuinely smart and a really good villain despite being under grasp of Kane Bullard until he kills him. He knew how to get away with it if almost anything went wrong, and the only reason he lost was because he had assumed too much (and Godot screwed him over because he saw Mia)
@@midnalazuli793believe it or not, Atmey was not my main suspect when I first played the case. I was CERTAIN it was Dessie, with her “I can’t stand criminals” mentality being a cover up and Ron wanting to take the blame in order to save his wife. Also, Dessie’s facial structure matched that of Mask DeMasque much better than Atmey did. It made sense in my head, Atmey was suspicious but everything lead me to believe it was Dessie
The Stolen Turnabout is actually my favorite case, and I had a moment of thinking there was no negatives when you got into the convoluted-ness of it. It’s fucking bonkers at times, and honestly, Luke Atmey’s testimonies being annoying fits his stchick perfectly.
still one of my favorite cases! it was just the right amount of ridiculous
I agree!! :)
The thing about annoying characters is that there’s a very fine line between annoying the cast and annoying your audience. By the end, Atmey had crossed over into the latter. It was honestly a problem that cropped up a lot in Takumi’s games after the first one. The characters would be so cartoony and over-the-top that the audience reaction was always going to be polarized.
I love your animations for the talk sprites haha, well done
We were just going to use regular Phoenix and Edgeworth, but it looked off when they were talking the dialogue AND our words. So we did pallet swaps of our favorite colors and laughed when I looked like Sahwit and he looked like Drew Misham neck down.
2-3s worst part is Ben using a puppet to exploit the fact that Regina is sheltered and ignorant so he can marry her when she's like half his age. At least Max doesn't come off as intentionally exploiting, he got her dad's permission (keep in mind when this game came out the age of consent in Japan was lower than 18) and its only a 5 year gap instead of 15, so I can see it not being super weird in Japan back then but Ben is creepy no matter how you look at it.
IMO him having Dads permission really doesn’t make it better, and it’s much worse since said girl clearly has the emotional maturity and mental age of someone much, much younger. He’s still a creep, but I totes agree that Ben is so, so, SO much worse. He just made my skin crawl throughout the whole thibg
@@aikikaname6508 the dad doesn't seem neglectful and loves her more than anything in the world. And again back when this was made where it was made, the age of consent was much lower. These days any self respecting father wouldn't let anything remotely romantic happen between those 2 let alone let them marry. Honestly Max doesn't seem super aware that Regina's obliviousness.
Again its really hard for us to judge it because in our culture in our day, that's obviously wrong but at the same time we wouldn't look at the middle ages and go "wow what horrible people, setting up 15 year old girls for arranged marriages" because things were different back then.
I think its weird but I also think the fact that everyone ignores all the context of when it was written and then criticize the game based on the culture of here and now is a bit unfair.
And yah, Ben has no excuse. He's just creepy
It really really needs to be lower
I'm not a overly sensitive westerner like you all so I don't care about age consent or whatever (the same problem overly sensitive westerners have with Ray Shields, which is silly, actually). But the worst character is Regina herself. She singlehandedly make the case the utter garbage that it is. Like, she's annoyingly naive and doesn't even care about making Bat permanently in a comatose state. No wonder Acro wants to kill her. If Turnabout Big Top end with Acro somehow gets his chance to kill that discount Rose of Versailles character, I would put Turnabout Big Top much higher in rank. But no, we get that overly cheesy ending, and then Acro somehow lost all motivation. Yeah, the reason Acro, who has the best chance of being the only decent character in the entire case, turns out to be a stupid character with nothing as much as a resolve is that ending.
People blame the male characters for being creepy toward a girl, not realizing that said girl is the WORST Ace Attorney character in existence. Like, what is this? A reverse harem?
@@xuniepyro7399 she's insanely innocent to not knowing what really happened...which is the fault of her FATHER not her...don't blame the kid bc she doesn't even know what death was. She doesn't really understand romance or marriage either. The person who's at fault is the one taking advantage of that, which would be Ben...he's creepy as heck even without the whole adult/minor thing bc he's like twice her age and deliberately using her naiveness to get with a girl he finds cute
Turnabout Big Top: The circus crew's detachment was beyond jarring. One of their stars just died, but they spend more time goofing off or telling jokes than actually helping Phoenix! There's denial from grief, and then there's laughing off their friends' death!
I feel like a case's quality should be more important than its length. It's better to play something short with an amazing plotline (Like SoJ, T&T and AAI2's first cases) than something long with horrible writing (Like Turnabout Big Top).
I see your point but you should try a new perspective. Plus it’s not the length that consisted of this list. We truly believe the writing in turnabout big top is much less of an issue when put under a microscope and played through paying attention to the arcs of these characters.
That’s why I1-3 is so UNBELIEVABLY low. It has very little value at all. The atmosphere doesn’t fit, the side characters are next to nothing with blandness, the killer is a turd not worth your time, and the info is just generally uninteresting.
2-3 DOES have value. The characters are INTENTIONALLY childish dicks in a way that makes sense. And they get over that once they get snapped into reality courtesy of the courts. They really don’t know how to deal with tragedy. It’s well done actually. Still sub par.
The SoJ’s opening HAD a serious tone that was excellent and should be taken seriously, but they threw that COMPLETELY out the window with the killer. And the fact that they took a COMPLETE tone shift with sing alongs and an unbearable prosecutor who wants you dead for no reason other than you beat him. (Manfred Von Karma but SERIOUSLY lacking) It just doesn’t work.
T&T’s opening is solid but the arcs just don’t land as well as the cases above it. Only a few minor complaints. Phoenix and Grossberg kinda have slightly incomplete arcs that could use a bit more.
Investigations 2 opening was WAY above all of the cases you brought up. That’s why it made it to the top half. That is a QUALITY opening. But that’s just our overall standpoint. But you should give 2-3 another shot. It’s especially solid in the 2nd half as everyone gets more humbled.
I fucking HATE turnabout big top. I didn’t care about any of the characters, lol, I actually wanted the defendant to be found guilty. I literally said out loud “I don’t fucking CARE” several times during that case XD
Agreed, Ablaze is my personal least favorite case because it just. Goes. On. Forever. The case itself isn’t all that interesting and there’s constantly new information getting showed in your face, and the wnding is horrendous with Edgeworth constantly being like “oh no, guess that’s it” and some random person shows up to save the day, it happens like 5 times within an hour of gameplay. Absolute garbage, by the end I was just glad the game was over.
@@spiderdude2099 the worst part about that case the only good character new character in turnabout big top was the killer
This is kind of the reason I love Turnabout Beginnings as one of my top 10. It's short, precise, and absolutely Impactful. Trials are the best section and that's all it contains.
Also the reason Ablaze drives me absolutely insane. We don't care about Yatagarasu until the final case and then it shoves it down our throat. Also Calisto Yew and Shi'Na is obvious Deus Ex-Machina to me
Ranking every AA case is such a fun idea. It's nice to see what everyone else thinks about all these cases. It's also nice to see some love for turnabout bigtop, my biggest problem with it was the love triangle involving a 16 year old.
Also I haven't finished the video yet, but I'm excited to see what you think of my favorite case 2-4
Even though the love triangle was ABSOLUTELY cringe, it wasn’t enough to topple the remaining substance in the case. But that’s also why we argue that these people don’t know how to handle tragedy at all. Their world is their circus. And that’s why once Moe gets serious, it changes everything.
@@Kaempfdog Yeah the characters and plot were still really enjoyable aside from the love triangle. They're all so quirky and fun, with stuff like Moe bursting out into the Fresh Prince theme or the obsession with giving Max milk. Them having trouble taking things seriously makes them all interesting
Yeah, it was made even worse by the fact that said 15 year old appeared to have the mental age of a much younger child. Creepy AF but I still don’t understand it’s criticisms of it’s insane leaps in logic. It’s hardly worse than anything else in the series
eh. Personally, loved the absolute shit out of big top. not surprised it's ranked low, but it's not too low. only about a quarter of the ranking. it's nice to see people not raving about it for a change.
My eyes watering the moment the 3-4 Reminiscence theme starts playing shows how much of an impact that case left on me. Yes, 37 is criminally low for that one.
I promise you that the suicide is not why. That’s still a top 5 moment in the series for both of us. But a singular moment can’t make or break a case. And the rest was far more to the benefit of 3-1 and 3-5 rather than itself. I can go into more detail if you prefer though.
Hey, thanks for including chapters on your video! It makes it easy to skip cases I haven’t played yet, which I greatly appreciate.
I was thinking the same thing!
In investigations 1-3 I found the blue badger theme park more hysterical than annoying to be honest. It’s just so absolutely bizarre that I couldn’t help but find it funny, case itself was pretty boring though.
Case itself was pretty boring, true.
I dislike that case solely for the existence of the proto badger costume and the horror house.
That's one of the creepiest things I've seen in AA (besides child Athena and that creepy "floating" red cape guy on Investigations 2)
@@anotherhetalian8499 I don't see how that proto badger part is a negative. It feels like the writers are acknowledging how intentionally unintentionally creepy the blue badger is (no, that wasn't a typo) and capitalizing even more on it.
Really dont feel like you give 3-4 the credit it deserves. The ending was amazing,the whole build up throughout the case established the secone of the crime for 3-5 in a fun and imaginitive way and also gives some closure and explanation to Mias hate for Dahlia. Diego wasnt supposed to be something that people thought "I wonder who that could be" about,its supposed to be clear that thats Godot. From which you are supposed to piece together the relationship that he and Mia will start to share and their relationship that is developed throughout the trial. 3-1 and 4 can basicalyl be considered one case if you think about it,and they work perfectly together. They are two narratives that flow into the same over all narrative and form the frame work for what is the amazing 3-5. Terry Fawles is an interesting character to see throughout the trial,the whole kidnapping aspect gives it a bit of fresh air,seeing young Edgeworth is nice fanservice that really doesnt have to be developed further. The length of the case is also quite irrelevant since the case clearly wasnt meant to be very long,making it too long with an investigation scene and several days would have destroyed the whole foundation of the case,it was supposed to represent Mias talent as a lawyer immediately,how quickly she arrived at the truth only to be suddenly stopped by a force beyond her control,Dahlia. Also showed us a bit of light in Edgeworth when his arrogant facade began to break down as Fawles drank the poison. Feel like youre really taking the case too much at face value.
Then let’s give you some food for thought. For what narrative purpose does it serve the game to hide the identity of Dahlia when she was already established, and make you spend MOST of the case trying to get her to come clean as Melissa Foster. It’s honestly a waste of time.
The past characters drag down the case instead of make it thrive now that we have i1-4. Nothing is added to their character. They are just there to see the traumatizing scene essentially. And it’s way too late in the game to leave these characters back in the plot device bin.
Diego Armando is the worst appearance of Godot, so taking the route of not hiding his identity should’ve been used as just being Godot. (As in his actions and demeanor shouldn’t have changed.)
The location is kept to maps. And the pay off isn’t exactly all that worth it. As in 3-5 it’s just seen as, oh that happened here.
Very little of 3-4 is seen to the benefit of 3-4 itself. But it builds up 3-1 and of course 3-5. And I wouldn’t have put it above 3-1 even if this wasn’t a combined list. Also that being said, the suicide is a top 5 singular scene. But 1 scene can’t make or break a case. Hope that clears up our opinion.
@@KaempfdogI’m half with ya. I think your opinion on Armando is way off though. It’s necessary for us to see the person that “died” to become Godot for bridge to be as impactful as it is
I agree that by itself 3-4 is actually a poor case, but it absolutely phenomenally sets up everything else. The last case you play before the finale shows you the vicious dynamic of dahlia and Mia, easily some of the best villain/defence exchanges we’ve ever had. 3-1 is only as good as it is because when we play it Mia is out for Dahlia’s blood. Godot is only as good as he is because he lost his chance at normal life and true love. Dahlia is desperate to get some form of win after losing twice now. Everything that this case needs to do for the characters, it does. I view this case as the seasoning in the sauce so to speak. It’s not got much meat by itself, and alone it’s not incredible, but in combination with the rest of T and T it is an absolute tour de force
Big Top deserves it's reputation. The cape stuck in the bust and the murder weapon under the blanket are far worse elements than Moe or Trilo.
Yeah, it’s just super forced and unnatural how the cape gets stuck in the statue like that
That murder has a lot of coincidences that Acro got really lucky with. Even the monkey somehow carrying a huge bust up a flight of stairs is somewhat hilariously bad.
It's so bad, this case made me skip JFA and I only returned after I finished T&T
@@bigredracecar27Well then that’s so dumb cause you miss the masterpiece that is 2-4
the murder weapon under the blanket was kinda cool but yeah the whole cape snatched to the bust BS is unbearable, it's one of the very few moments in videogames where i had to stop playing for a moment while thinking "wtf"
1-1 should at least be given props for being a great introductory case both to the game mechanics and the world. I mean imagine if the premise of 2-1 was the first case ever. Imagine how many people would think the entire series was like that and drop it.
Well that’s exactly what credit we give it. But once you play it once, there is NEVER anything left to go back to in all honesty. Every case builds off of it, but because of that, it has the least to it. It was always going to be number 40.
@@Kaempfdog So it's a case of "Seinfeld Is Unfunny"?
Nobody would drop the series with an amazing case like The Lost Turnabout!
@@Kaempfdog Tbh that's fair. I think it just depends on how important you think replayability is in these cases
@@abigailc8829 I wish I explained it this way sooner. 1-1 is an empty scale. And even a case with 2 blocks on the bad side and 1 block on the good side is better than an empty one. And the intros all place poorly because they often have so much fewer blocks than the rest. It’s more a balance of pros and cons. And the video even goes to make that analogy FREQUENTLY. We just didn’t think of it until later.
We want to open the door TO replay these games. Because VERY few people do. And it’s so much more worth it than it seems.
Dude this is probably the most epic ace attorney case countdown (including both parts since I've watched both of them) I've ever watched it was great to have a second commentator and I think if you put more content on here I really think you can get going you need more praise from these 2 video ALONE!
I am working on the next list. I’m replaying the crossover because attributes make it to other lists.
@@Kaempfdog Sweet can't wait to see it
Well, goddamnit, now I'm gonna have to finish these games, cause I don't wanna get spoiled, be back in a few days! :P
Let me know what you think once your done!
Did you do it, was it fun?! :D
Turnabout beginnings was actually my favorite case from the thirth game, it got me on the edge of my seat the whole time.
When you realize every T&T killer aside from the last one is either Dahlia Hawthorne or gets caught by saying something stupid
Not really, Luke Atmey never made a slip up, Phoenix was just smart enough to piece together what happened
@@diggitydog998 really...the "he's the one that showed up in the masque de mask outfit" wasn't a slip up huh
@@megarotom1590 I guess it kind of is but not in the same way that something like El Tigre’s slip up was
Ron DeLite was absolutely insisting that he was Mask DeMasque so that would give him a solid reason for having a Mask DeMasque costume, and that’s probably how Luke Atmey thought he was going to weasel his way out of it, but he didn’t take into consideration just how smart Phoenix would be in tearing his story apart
Meanwhile El Tigre described in detail what the bottle of poison looked like in front of everyone, despite the fact that literally only the killer would know that information
So yes, Atmey did slip up but not in the same way that El Tigre did
@@diggitydog998 Oh yah, Tigre's was WAY worse. He's like "that's not the bottle of poison, the brown one's the bottle of poison" at which everyone faceplanted at.
I’d LOVE a game where you play as Mia. Maybe without Grossberg, though.
Gahhhhh meh hemmerroiiiiids.....
A gane where you play as Mia and your assistant is -Godot- Diego Armando
T&T intro imo should be higher if only bc it introduces Dahlia Hawthorne and 3-4 is pretty fun too
You put up a good case for the circus case (turnabout tent?) I was very excited that moe got some character growth
Oh 2-3 is just WAY over-hated. Never understood it that much. If you want lack of substance you look at 1-1 and I1-3 as big examples.
@@Kaempfdog 1-1 I felt bad for Larry
It all went downhill from there
@@Multi-Waves_Music but does that feeling stick on revisits? Because that’s why 1-1 was never even debated it belonged at #40. Every single character in this case is better elsewhere.
@@Kaempfdog I agree, replayability is something I fail to bring into consideration
@@Multi-Waves_Music that’s why we love 4-4 so much. People write it off because it’s so messy. But if you look at it closely, all the info you need IS there. It’s just…not organized. Much like Phoenix in that case. So I organize it for people.
Actually I love the intro case of Spirit because of just how high the stakes are. They're much better imprinted on you than in other cases where the DC Act also gets involved. You lose, Phoenix DIES.
I disagree with the place of 1-1, much like the winged fat demon in Demon's Souls tutorial it is the perfect introduction to what the series entails and what you can expect from now on regardless of what game comes next. Also, having Mia go to being that image of your tutor and protector to not being at all right aftewards was pretty neat to me at the time, and the game built her up nicely in 1-1 to me
Here's one thing I've not heard discussed so far about 2-3. So, Acro feels bad for having killed Ringmaster Berry, not just because he wasn't his target but also because of how much he appreciated the man taking him and his brother in off the street. ... Buuuuut how does he think he'd feel after finding his daughter murdered? This is something that's always bugged me about that case, aside from the other stupid stuff like everyone thinking Max can actually fly.
Yeah, it was a very poorly thought out murder, and if everything went according to his plan, it would’ve been very catastrophic for everyone at the circus, including himself
The Ringmaster was a very kind and generous man that loved his daughter a hecking lot, so losing her like that would’ve made him fall into a spiral of sheer negative emotions, and that combined with Max getting arrested and found guilty of murder, would’ve lead to the circus closing down all the way
Leaving the circus staff homeless and/or unemployed, and Bat could’ve been left to die, so it could’ve backfired horribly just like Regina’s peppered bandanna prank
I just watched the anime adaptation of 2-3, and it’s definitely the best anime improvement yet. Improved in most areas, if not all. There are 2 improvements that especially stood out to me:
1. That Trilo-Regina-Max love triangle was removed. The only remnant of it is Trilo’s ring, which was meant for Regina, but it was never mentioned as an engagement ring.
2. Regina’s breakdown, after learning the truth, happens in court, and she even tries to take the blame in Acro’s place. Much more emotional than in the game imo.
Hiya, just wanted to share my appreciaten for this video.
The quality of this video is amazing. Even though this back-and-forth on the same cases is somewhat rare, I really do love it.
Also that not just 1 person attacks the case, while the other defends. However both share your look on them. Good mic qualities, and feels natural when talking.
And I want to share my appreciation for that comment! It was a joy to make and I’m happy so many people love it. What are your favorite parts?
@@Kaempfdog I had been watching parts of this video, matching which games I had played, after I completed one of the games, i'd go back and watch the explanations for those cases. This means I watched the videos throughout 1 and a half month. (As I had no intent of playing the 3DS games since my 3DS died on me a while ago). The 2 perspectives (on each case) are my favourite part of this for sure. It's something you don't see to often, and yet you 2 made it work really well. While I might not agree with everything on the list, of course, that lies with opinions, and stuff I value in these types of cases. I still really did enjoy listening to you guys' reasonings.
BAHAHAHA I JUSR NOW NOTICED THE FRICKIN EDIT AT 19:05 damnit, zelda cdi will always be with us
We can’t think of Redd White shaking his head without thinking of Mayor Kravindish. And now you can’t unsee that either. You are welcome.
I think The First Turnabout is an exceptionally strong case for what it is. At least Phoenix doesn't randomly have amnesia for no reason.
just wanna say i love how you guys bounce off each other and have different opinions
its so fun watching you guys
I think I would put I1-3 higher for the singular moment of proto badger knocking Edgeworth out from behind in the creepiest way possible. I found the setting funny because it feels to me that they are fully aware of how unappealing it is, and how creepy Blue Badger is. Point absolutely stands with the case specific characters they sucked.
One of my favourite unmentioned things about 2-3, the Turnabout Big Top, is the twist of how Edgeworth worked from the shadows to help Phoenix win.
When Gumshoe and Franziska launch their surprise raid on Acro, I honestly believed that she launched it in order to hide the evidence in order to win (her taking Bat's scarf from us certainly didn't help against that assumption).
The recess scene when Gumshoe gives us the scarf back however makes it clear that there were some things happening behind the curtains, as we get this great dialogue:
Gumshoe: Look, details are on a need to know basis. And we're not really allies or anything... but everything that's happened in court until now has gone according to our plan.
Maya: I don't know... Ms. von Karma didn't seem in control of things in there just now...
Gumshoe: You'll figure it out eventually, pal... Yesterday, our final plans were set into motion.
Phoenix: "Final plans"...?
Gumshoe: Uh huh. That reminds me... I've got a message from the prosecutor for you. "Nothing is ever truly decided until the very end." That's it. And that's it for me too, pal. I'm outta here.
That made me preemptively wonder whether the twist was going to be that Franziska had been trying to catch Acro too. However, when Acro confesses, it's revealed that Franziska had nothing to do with it.
Maya: I can't believe that Von Karma thought that far ahead... it's amazing!
Phoenix: Uh huh... You definetly couldn't tell by looking at her. I know I sure couldn't.
Franziska: ...I can't believe it... I... Failed! Why did I order a surprise search of your room...? If only I hadn't done that...
At that point I kind of started to suspect who the prosecutor working with Gumshoe was, though it didn't make the final reveal any less enjoyable.
???: I see... What made the case?
Gumshoe: Yesterday's surprise raid. It really paid off, just like you said it would, sir. Umm... you had it all figured out, didn't you?
???: It was just a theory... If Acro really was the killer, I thought this was the only way it could end. Especially if "he" was the defense attorney...
Gumshoe: You mean Mr. Wright?
???: Of course... Well, detective, my plane is about to leave. As for Mr. Acro's case, you need not worry. I plan to personally stop by the Chief Prosecutor's office as soon as I get back.
*cue the Edgeworth in airport reveal*
Gumshoe: Understood, sir. I'll be waiting for you... Mr. Edgeworth!
Now it might have been just me being oblivious during my first playthrough of the Big Top, but noticing all of the hints of Gumshoe being in cahoots with a certain cravat-wearing prosecutor made the Big Top so much more enjoyable for me during replays.
The biggest flaw with 3-4 is that the defendant was a 20 year old in love with a 14 year old at one point ... gross
“Generic evil dipshit in a suit” is one of the best lines ever. I laugh so much at it
I just finished Turnabout Ablaze and wow is it a mixed bag.
There were some genuinely awesome moments with trying to figure out what actually happened, and Shi-Long-Lang being consistently amazing, but then the game puts you through the same thing over and over again :
- You find a flaw in Alba's testimony.
- He doesn't care because it's not definitive enough and is about to leave (which what the fuck, he has admitted to murdering someone and tampering with a crime scene, has his ambassador powers revoked but that's still not enough to AT LEAST arrest him as a criminal and THEN look into the smuggling ring ?).
- Someone comes up with the most random piece of evidence / testimony he has to answer to.
- Repeat step 1.
I know that having to present definitive evidence here and now is something the AA series does a lot, but here it just cycles through that at least 4 times. Taking him down isn't even that satisfying because it's all thanks to a very conveniently placed blood drop on a random samourai dogs box that wendy oldbag randomly picked up and randomly decided to give to edgeworth at that particular time. That is NOT how I enjoy taking down killers.
XD watch our worst character review. Nearly point by point is the same thoughts on Alba. i1-5 is right along with the other mixed bags of ace attorney cases. The Yatagarasu story is AMAZING. And we have high praise for MANY high points. But it’s low points are ROUGH.
No the first one is absolutely goated, 100x better than most cases
22:50 The Big Top theme came on and I was immediately surprised by enjoying the song? AAI2, you worked wonders for me
40:23 The Japanese names of the Khura'inese characters are even more obvious puns in Japanese, where they're just Japanese words written in in katakana. At least Puhray Zeh'lot has the double meaning of "zealot".
Wow, 37 is in many people's top fives, I'm buckling in for a fun one.
Really? I did want it higher but it never would’ve left the bottom half and definitely wouldn’t have made it out of the cluster of intros for me. Maybe 1 or 2 higher. Mainly because I1-4 exists and that is just a MUCH better use of the younger characters.
Also I can assume there are other cases that the placement surprised you. It did for us too making the list.
Tbh I saw a bridge and was like no no no bridge to the turnabout is amazing oh wait they’re talking about that case ok ok ok
@@Kaempfdog one thing that has hurt it over time is that every analyst brings up the "Inversion from 3-1" angle that has been beaten into the dirt.
But fresh for the first time, amazing. Maybe it's not your scale, but I think "Would you like to talk about it" is a pretty good metric. I'm entertained thinking about it even now, whereas I haven't thought of some (e.g. 6-3) since I played them
@@hundredpercentjuice well the 2nd trilogy doesn’t have nostalgia backing it up for most people. So it takes a bit more arguing as to how good it is in the metric of the series.
I mean as I’ve seen people comment to me, this went from a let’s discuss the series to you should REALLY replay the series because it’s DEFINITELY just as intended to be great on multiple play throughs as a single one. You catch so much more foreshadowing, details, jokes, and lots of cool stuff when you’re looking for things.
That’s why 3-4 doesn’t hold up. It’s not a very rewarding one to poke around even if the last 2 minutes will NEVER stop being traumatizing. And when you think about it, ONLY the reverse perspective for 3-4 to 3-1 is talked about other than the suicide because there is next to nothing else to talk about and catch. You’ll never forget it regardless. And both me and my brother still talk highly OF those 2 minutes.
huh. it's got the emotional impact but it's pretty basic otherwise.
I can't wait to play great ace attorney. (Also put tags on your video.)
Cool video, and it highlighted something to me that I never think about for games of this nature: replay value. I find these games to not have any replay value at all, so it was interesting to hear that cited as a reason for liking aspect of certain cases (while I think it’s inconsequential, considering the narrative-heavy nature of these games).
With me, It’s hard to take replay value into consideration because when I replay a case right after I know what the story is and all that it just feels very boring to me
Thank you so much for not putting Turnabout Bigtop at the very bottom! Seriously, that case is WAY over hated, people always saying it's the worst case ever and it really isn't. I don't care what rank you put it at, the fact that it's not #40 automatically makes me respect you.
It's amazing how much work you two put into this one! Listening to your banter is fun and I couldn't really imagine a person in a monolgue pulling it off like this. And yes; we always need more Ace Attorney discussion videos. And I think with that, I'll leave a bit of my own opinion on the cases as well! Although I am definitely a bit biased when it comes to Trials and Tribulations, as that was my first game (played 3-1 to 3-3 and then went in order from the beginning)
#40 and 39: Agreed. Both intro cases, both didn't get to do much interesting things (although 2-1 certainly had more fun moments, ideas and general presentation)
#38: I don't know if I would have put this one that low, but I agree it was a bit of a slog. I likewise really don't care much for the badgers and thought both the murderer and the story were a bit of a letdown. I was also under the impression the whole thing with Ernest Amano would go deeper and be an actual part of the story of the game, maybe in terms of Edgeworth dealing with his past and past corruption? Definitely a letdown on replay
#37: Yeah... as much as I love the ending of the case, I agree with it being more tedious than interesting overall. I generally tend to be annoyed with cases that have long stretches like this where you have information that will turn the case around, but have to wait to present it while having to sort out something way less interesting.
#36: Agreed, though I might have put it just a little higher. It's fun because it's short and to the point, but it doesn't have much else to offer.
#35: Agreed. Parts of it a bit tedious and slow, but overall a nice introduction to Spirit of Justice.
#34: Might have put this one a little lower because I keep forgetting about all the details of this one. The therapy session was really fun though.
#33: My introduction to the whole franchise. As such, I am quite attached to it, but I agree it isn't really stronger than any of the following cases. Offering the cough medication to Payne was so satisfying. Plus this one also had the chronologically first instance of "Phoenix should not have survived this but somehow he did". The foreshadowing is great.
#32: I am a bit biased as someone who has an interest in Rakugo Storytelling and loved Uendo (as well as some of the references to classic Rakugo Stories), but I agree the case didn't add much overall. The client was annoying and you didn't care about him. I kinda thought the murderer was a little sympathetic, but mostly near the end of the case. I may have just put it a liittle higher.
#31: Agreed, especially with all your criticisms. Although I would like to add that I thought the ending was fitting because it illustrated that Phoenix still isn't quite there yet as a lawyer and still needed his mentor to help him out.
#30: Agreed! Klavier was really fun, and all the stuff with Lamiroir was cool, but all of the parts involving the serenade in and of itself were tedious. And on replays especially when you already know it doesn't matter much it just drags. Wish we could've gotten more spotlight on Lamiroir, too, but that was probably planned for another game that never came to be. Reminds me that I generally liked the writing in Apollo Justice, but felt they were experimenting with gimmicks a little too much.
#29: Agreed, not much to add. Good case, but the series just has better to offer.
#28: I replayed this one fairly recently and yeah... might have put it a little lower. The court sections were fun, the investigation sections dragged and the characters exclusive to this case were a mixed bag. Although I thought Apollo involuntarily following in Phoenix' footsteps with his "presenting important evidence to the main suspect" was a fun little detail.
#27: Agreed, don't have anything to add.
#26: Big, big agree. This one was just so tedious and kind of boring at stretches. I remember very little about all the details both when it comes to the case details and locations.
#25: Might have even put this one a little higher as it REALLY nailed the immersion aspect (save for the Khu'rain names being what they are... yes you get used to it upon replays, but I still remember my initial disappointment with most of them very vividly). And I liked Rayfa as a companion, too, giving some culture and attitude, but also questioning herself. It may be cliché, but I thought she was handled well here. Though I also agree Spirit of Justice has the worst prosecutor who isn't any fun and just annoying. Although my brother played alongside me for a bit and voiced him with an over-the-top indian accent, that way we still had a lot of fun with him.
#24: Might have actually put this one a bit higher as well. I really liked Ray and Sebastian instantly (for the most part), thought the prison was a fun place to investigate and liked all of this cases characters. The returning ones may not be at their strongest just yet, but I still had a lot of fun with them.
#23: Liked this one too, though I might have put it a little lower. It stylistically calls back to the older games a lot and I quite liked that, and it has both really touching and really fun moments. Though I also tend to forget a lot of the details (other than how poor Athena was held at an arms length) and agree that it isn't that strong as the "final case for now" of the franchise. Both of the DLC cases kinda share that and if possible, it seems to be best to play them in the middle of the game on a replay (because otherwise they can be spoilery).
#22: I agree, this one is an absolute classic. It flows nicely, the characters are all really fun, as are the writing and the dialogue.
#21: Aah, my first proper case, definitely would have put this one higher. It might have a lot of little annoyances, and I remember getting stuck several times, but all of the characters really hit home for me and the story has just the right mix of twisted and straightforward. Another case that comes to mind when I think of cases that are quick, fun and easy to replay.
Jeez! I’m impressed! This is a me level comment! Like the way that even though you never said the case # (and I admittedly don’t have the order memorized as it’s not mine exclusively, especially the bottom half.) I could always tell which case you were talking about. The ONLY case I would’ve changed position for the video proper was 2-1. Which I was just a TOUCH too harsh on. (Our opinion of i1-3 is understandably VERY low, but we just can’t look past the mistakes, most of which you mentioned.)
@@Kaempfdog Yeah, I think even after you work on a project like this for so long there's basically bound to be a position or two that you would change around in retrospect. And yeah, I-3 definitely is one of the weakest cases of the whole series. From what I remember, there were instances of a major leap in logic here and there as well, which may not be exclusive to this case but doesn't help when the case already isn't that fun or engaging.
i love how the only arguments said in favour of Big top were "there's worse in the series" and "it is meant to be unpleasant to play through"
Well when the set argument is it’s the worst, I don’t regret it.
For #29, the only reason I didn’t like it was because of the tragedy involved with the killer’s motivation. Not just because someone got into a coma, but mainly because a lion got killed for something that wasn’t his fault to begin with. I’m the type of guy that hates cruelty to animals more than cruelty to humans, so that part hit me too hard to like this case that much.
Well if you remember 5-6 Orla would’ve been put down no trial if it weren’t for Sasha. So that actually aligns. When animals cause huge harm to people and they’re “pets” they get put down. (Using the term loosely.) Even though the courts didn’t order it, it really wouldn’t have made a difference.
Plus they couldn’t release the Lion to the wild due to how old it was anyway. It is sad as hell the poor thing just had that happen, but honestly I think it was unavoidable regardless. Plus the Ringmaster lost his adopted son in that and since they covered it up, I think he may have known Regina was at fault.
That’s just a sucky situation. So I don’t blame you for getting wound up.
@@Kaempfdog I agree with the Ringmaster’s suspicion that he knew it was Regina’s fault. After all, he read the note Acro put for Regina to read and immediately knew what it meant.
Also, 5-6 gets a pass on that because Ora & Orla didn’t die by the end.
@@JJ_R where would you put 2-3? I’d definitely still say it belongs above the intro cases even with the issues being a bit harder to ignore for others. (Not that I would change anything’s positioning but 2-1 on this list. I think I was a tad too harsh to put it beneath I1-3.)
@@Kaempfdog For me, I’d keep it where it is Disregarding my issue with it, the case feels necessary for world building. I like how it ties to the overarching storyline of Justice for All with Phoenix’s resentment towards Edgeworth being brought up during his conversation with Franziska, the reveal at the end showing that Edgeworth helped Phoenix with the search of Acro’s room, the location allowing Maya to help Gumshoe pinpoint deKiller’s location in 2-4, and the Berry Big Circus itself being mentioned in some points in other cases throughout the series and even playing a part in I2-2.
My negatives goes to _some_ things. The lion thing is one thing. Also, while most of the characters are flawed yet help carry the story along, my personal gripe is with the idea that the 31 year old ventriloquist wants to marry the 15 year old animal tamer, regardless of whether or not it’s through his puppet! At least Max is only 21, and I hope he’d have the right mind to wait until she was of legal age to have the wedding (Unless the age of consent is much lower than America…). Also, Pearl is barely in it. Everything else is what’s already been pointed out. The music can get annoying, and the jokes from Moe can wear on you after a while.
Funny enough, lots of people complain about the bit with the cape snagging onto the bust, but I don’t mind it that much.
@@JJ_R now THAT is something I like to see. Giving 2-3 a fair chance. Yes the marriage circle is cringe as hell. And the legal age in Japan is 16 if I recall. Which is why no one bats an eye since she would be legal her next birthday. (Even though I could’ve sworn she was 16 in 2-3 but I may be wrong since Max asked Russell, so he may have been going for parent approved which can be done before legal age.) Plus the age gap for Max isn’t big and bothersome like Ben. But I actually think Trilo is a pretty traditional ventriloquist act. Just a smartass aiming to make people awkward and laugh at the awkwardness. Just aged poorly like Moe’s approach with being a clown.
Palaeno is one of my favorite characters in this series. He's a breath of fresh air in a series full of information withholding, lie ridden, son's of bitches that you usually deal with.
This list alone took almost 2 years to make sure it was as fair as possible and all
Thats dedication!
also even the voice over writing ecs. is pretty cool
54:39 You failed to mention how Will Powers looks so much like Allmight
While I do say that 37 is a surprise I think that not having 4-2 in the first half is what surprised me the most here. I've heard a lot of people saying it's just boring and has incredibly lackluster characters besides Guy. The list is really intruiging and I'm excited for part 2
Hoo boy. Some people just need to revisit certain cases. 4-2 has AMAZING characters. The only reason it’s seen as poor is because of the case it follows, and Wesley Stickler who is DEFINITELY a case ruined if the jokes don’t land. (But they do land for us and we think it’s hilarious.)
As for our #37, I wouldn’t put it up more than 2 spots on my personal list. It truly can’t be held up by the last few minutes alone even if it traumatized everyone for life. Tell me what you think of the 2nd part! I try and reply to every comment I can!
I'm currently playing through Apollo Justice, and I found 4-2 to be a not very great case. The characters aren't really lackluster, but overall it's a boring trial until the end. Wesley is pretty much just Richard Wellington from 2-1 (even has the same problem with a cell phone!) and we get the bit of "my girlfriend is innocent I swear!" from 3-1. Also, Alita is a fairly obvious murderer.
1-1>2-1 imo like 2-1 is just lazy from a writing standpoint at least 1-1 is such a great introduction for beginners and fufills what it needs to 2-1 does nothing but frustrate and is not good for anyone old or new to the series. Additionally even just from writing standpoint 1-1 makes sense and is coherent 2-1 is actually just lazy from a writing standpoint.
I’ll be honest, this video is a ranking video, but with two view points, and almost acts like a political debate, but the political debate is actually good. This is probably, for me, “debeste” ranking video I have watched. It’s that good! Well done you two (also really 6-3 not even in top 20? That’s an interesting choice)!
For a nearly 1 hour long video, this was super entertaining! You deserve way more subs man
The First Turnabout being #40 is a crime imo. It is a PERFECT first case. There are BAD cases in this series. I much prefer a perfect but bare-bones case rather than a boring/badly executed case with more content
I get why people say that, but when the case is LITERALLY just a blank canvas with nothing on it, there’s nothing to say what works and what doesn’t. Every other case uses this blank canvas to make something of it, and even if it doesn’t come across as intended or the vast majority people don’t like it, there’s always SOMETHING that stands out that makes it worth it. And that speaks more than a blank canvas.
Another analogy is a scale with no blocks says less than a scale with one or two good blocks, but the mass quantity is bad blocks.
We aren’t arguing it’s importance, but we ARE arguing why should it be taken as better when EVERYTHING builds and improves off the framework?
@@KaempfdogI guess agree to disagree. I would rather play through 1-1 again than many other cases in the series.
To defend the showing the killer trope, i remember seeing in a retrospective that the reason that happens is because the story isn’t a whodunit but rather how did it happen? You aren’t a detective you’re an attorney, you know your client is innocent (most of the time) so the question is how do you prove your client’s innocence.
TH-cam's algorithm is loving this video, 2 years of work put into this video was 100% worth it. Good stuff!
I personally have a very different view on the writing of 2-3 than you guys do, albeit in a way that's up for interpretation.
I have two major problems; first, the likability of the characters starting the case. I've seen people like the progression of people like Max and Moe, and I do too. The problem is that, for what I feel is the entire first half of the case, it's hard to find a likable character. It's very easy for me to see someone saying "Why should I care about these characters" and at that point the case is entirely sunk.
The second problem is much worse in my opinion and cannot be solved just by toughing out the character's rough spots: I think Acro is a second example of a character the writers had a completely different intention for the character than how they were received. Acro is the most toxic member of the entire circus, bar none. But the story doesn't treat him as such. From his speech, to his animations, to his breakdown, the writers treat Acro to my eyes as the single most justified killer in the series, when he's arguably not even the most justified killer in the first 2 games alone. And as such, a lot of the writing just feels hollow to me as it feels like a lot of the first half of the case is filled with (sometimes) purposefully unlikable characters characters, and a lot of the second half is busy justifying a killer who I feel is completely unjustifiable.
stfu he did nothing wrong
'why should I care about these characters' is also how I feel about most of the 3d games unfortunately
Only things I can complain about for basically all of ace attorney:
why are some investigations so long and irrelevant
why are the prosecutors so aggressive
why aren’t black psyche-locks used more often, they look so cool and intimidating
why is gumshoe not getting all the raises for being such a cool dude
Aside from that, good games, good cases, why is the stolen turnabout a thing
The anime did Turnabout Big Top better than the actual game. Change my mind.
Also, I thought Datz Are'bal's pun was That's Horrible... I guess it can be both???
I’m actually with you there. (Though I think I need to rewatch it to make sure) And it gave Ben and Trilo character closure they didn’t get. I also love that screaming GORGEOUS is just as fun as screaming FABULOUS. Regardless, 2-3 isn’t as bad as people always claim it is. And I don’t regret it’s placement on the list.
Actually I was unaware of the name pun of Datz until my brother told me what it was. Datz is a lot of things. Subtle is the LAST thing anyone would ever call him. So I think it is meant to be That’s a rebel. (I’m pretty bad at noticing name puns and didn’t realize Mia was Missing In Action for YEARS.) And for the record, I pronounced Datz’s name to be That’s Our Ball and assumed it to be pronounced that way. (Which it could be or maybe not. Fictional country names are hard to assume pronunciation.) So I’m honestly open to any multitude of options there.
@@Kaempfdog I didn't expect you to reply to this honestly. Also, the anime made Regina feel less shallow. We get an actual unique yellow speech bubble wailing "HOLD IT!" (Matte!) (I think that's how it's spelled) and it just hit that emotional feel the game tried (and failed) to give. I also didn't know about the M.I.A. pun until today so thanks for that.
@@awildnoviceappears XD my pleasure. I can’t reply to everything but I try REALLY hard to do so while everyone waits for our next list since these are such slow builds.
I do need to rewatch the anime. Which I remember being PRETTY bad with what it skipped, and it had the unfortunate timing of being made at the same time as like 4 other anime so it’s animation quality was…not ideal. But it also gave other small moments that were outstanding and I loved them.
And honestly, I figured out Mia’s name pun like a few months ago. And I said the letters M I A out loud trying to get my little brother (who is not in our videos) to remember her better. And IMMEDIATELY realized Ace Attorney pulled a fast one on me for years. My older brother laughed his ass off when he saw me make the connection in my head.
Probably someone mentioned this already but Godot is pronounced "Ga-doh", not "Go-dot". Thanks to the AA anime for teaching that to me.
See that one is a habit neither of us are likely to break. Even though yes we are aware of the actual pronunciation. We’ve been calling him Go-dot so long it probably won’t be the only video we call him that.
I thought it was Go-doh, kinda like Gogoat, never knew it was supposed to be Ga-doh. (Though I usually say Go-dot because that’s what I initially thought until Pearl “mispronounced” it
@@Primpy I don’t know if the anime is so trustworthy, given how they pronounced Ami. Though Kaempfdog did mispronounce Ini, which surprised me, because of how obvious her name’s origin is.
You know the main reason I like going back and playing the first cases? Because when your first cross examination starts the tell the truth theme starts and it's awesome. My favorite is in 4
There are exceptions. We just don’t like analyzing too much because it is pretty rare for a character not to be a plot device in intros. So it’s before they become the beloved characters we all look fondly on. Plus the killer reveal always stinks.
That’s why we love I2-1 and 4-1 so much. Neither have a killer reveal, and the plot device issue is VERY minimal to the point of being unnoticeable. So it’s just good fun.
@@Kaempfdog yea man 4-1 was fantastic and its probably why AA 4 always has been and probably always will be my favorite game in the series. Also I read a long time ago that they do the killer reveal because when you get to that person its a great feeling when you take them down. Its less about justice and more about vengeance almost especially for Mia.
@@amiandivh there are drawbacks for the vengeance route of killer reveals. Red herrings can’t be done. (Hence why 5-2 is PRETTY bad since there’s like 4 and L’Belle as hilarious as he is was already revealed.)
And when you can’t do red herrings or fake outs, making the case complex is a lot more difficult. You aren’t putting together a mystery and get big a-HA moments. That’s why every killer reveal case doesn’t end in the top half with the exception of 4-4. But that one you already knew dang well you weren’t done with Kristoph and he just hung over the story. And when he did come back, it wasn’t revenge for anyone but Phoenix, but to Apollo and Klavier it was WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO?! Which was why 4-4 is so dang unique from other killer reveals.
I came to terms a long time ago with the fact that I'm one of the few people who genuinely enjoyed everything about Turnabout Big Top. I actually liked the music, and I enjoy the overarching theme of a dark underbelly hiding under all the glitz and glamour. It's actually one of my favorite cases to the point that I often mistakenly think it's in T&T, my favorite game of the original trilogy.
I don't recall having much issue with most of the characters outside of Regina. Regina always rubbed me the wrong way, but I think she's supposed to; she's got her head in the clouds as a circus princess and was not just unintentionally insensitive as a result, but actually gave me some borderline horror vibes- someone who believed so strongly in that showbiz fairy tale that she really could do some horrible things to people as a result. And Acro has one of the more tragic motives as a result I feel. It was an innocent prank gone wrong and became a tragic accident. One girl's delusion is another man's slap in the face. And all that twisted circus drama accidentally killed the one man everyone genuinely cared for.
I do understand why a lot of people don't like the case. It can be really gross and annoying on the surface level, but reading between the lines reveals a twisted tale and some interesting character dynamics that I think works well as an ace attorney game as you uncover more circus secrets.
Except for Max Galactica's three stupid symbols. Proving those several times over with audience participation was a pain in the rear.
So do you generally agree with our standpoint and general area of placement? Or how much higher would you put it?
@@Kaempfdog It's difficult to say as I haven't touched any of the games recently, nor done the marathon's worth of back to back research-slash-memory refresher that you guys have done for this video. But I guess if I were to split this whole thing into four parts (Worst of the Worst, Best of the Worst, Worst of the Best, and Best of the Worst), I personally would stick it in the upper end of the Best of the Worst tier, if not the lower end of the Worst of the Best tier. Just off the top of my head, I'd probably swap it with Stolen Turnabout. Subjectively speaking, of course.
As for general standpoint, I do understand where people are coming from and why it's disliked. But it is all preference and perspective in the end. It's a fair analysis for disliking it, and I think what turns most off from the case are the very reasons I enjoy it. One man's trash is another man's treasure and all that.
I’m immediately drawn to this video because the last place spot was NOT Big Top Turnabout and instead First Turnabout. I’m not sure I entirely agree, since sometimes I feel active frustration with a REALLY bad case is worse than just being standard and predictable, but I LOVE THAT REASONING ANYWAY??
I really respect that the worst cases still have things to offer in your opinions and, because of this, they should be ranked higher. That’s an opinion I respect dude
EDIT: Seeing the good even in the worse cases??? Awesome!!!
I give you a thousand kudos for getting EXACTLY what we were doing with this. (Had to justify #37 a thousand times over.)
We went into all the details we could find and it made these cases even more enjoyable than the 1st time we played them. So worth becoming vets of a series NO ONE becomes vets of. XD
my personal gripe with turnabout bigtop is how weirdly nonce-y everything is in it. i played the games completely out of order as a teenager due to just picking up whatever i could find at used game stores, so i played apollo justice, then trials and tribulations, then pw:aa and then finally justice for all. by the time i managed to find jfa (over a year after finishing pw:aa) i was just super excited to play another ace attorney game and my only issues with the case was how it seemed to go on a bit too long and that i personally didn't really like max galactica enough to really want to defend him.
however trying to replay the game as an adult 10+ years later i just could not get over how creepy the age difference between regina and her suiters is. bat is the closest in age to her and he's still in his early 20s. it just really made me uncomfortable trying to defend a man in his mid-late 20s who wants to marry a teenager. a teenager who Acts like a teenager. a teenager who's kind of dumb and doesn't really understand what's going on in the world. a teenager whose dad totally didn't care that his employees in their 20s and 30s all wanna fuck his daughter. a teenager who definitely doesn't understand why any of that is wrong in the first place. it totally threw me because i didn't remember it being that big of a deal the first time i played it. i know the age of consent is different in japan, shit im from the uk so the age of consent is lower here than it is in america, but that still didn't make it any easier to slog my way through a case where multiple completely unlikeable grown ass guys talk about how they wanna marry someone who i now would 100% describe as a child.
other than that the case wasn't actually as slow paced as i remembered it being, but it definitely felt wildly out of place w regards to the rest of the game. franziska's still great tho so that makes up for it i guess.
1:23 somewhat unrelated but can you even consider Apollo justice as the start of a second trilogy? Apollo justice and duel destinies are hardly related. In the grand scheme of things, Apollo justice is kinda a one off game, and Duel destinies is the start of the "3ds duology"
Honestly, I dont have any complaints about any of these rankings, except I 1-5. It would be in place number 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Yeah it's the final one in the series. Yeah its satisfying to take Alba down. But its too damn tedious. You already know three steps ahead what needs to be presented, but my fucking god dont present them in order and its game over. The two new people are forgettable and the main villain isnt even good writing wise. -1000/10, watch Jelloapocalypse play it instead.
Kay is one of my favorite characters of all ace attorney
Same she's my favourite assistant
I think you're missing the point of the killer reveals in the beginning cutscenes.
I get it takes away the mysteries, but I think the point is not who the killer is, but how you'll take them down.
Love the video, great list so far :)
And that’s all well and good but there’s an issue with that since there’s only 2 killers that you actually prepare to take down. Redd White and Kristoph Gavin. That’s why reusing killers is not so bad as it also lets a new aspect of not who did it, but WHAT DID YOU DO?! The killer reveals only take the direction of how to take them down ONCE in 4-4. And I personally love that. (4-4 is my personal #8.)
But the rest don’t take that story approach. Not even Redd White. It entertains the idea April May is the killer when we SAW the opening cutscene. It’s entertaining a red herring when the killer was established. That’s 5-2’s largest flaw. If you want to show how untouchable a killer is and it needs preparation, you do it in cases with investigations, where you prepare the cases yourself, no red herrings, but no evidence matters until you find ways to whittle down the killer enough.
Wow that 37 placement this is the lowest I have ever seen
Do you disagree with our argument? Even if it was mine alone, I would’ve simply put it up 1 or 2 spots. Ultimately he was right from my perspective. The last 2 minutes can’t carry an entire case.
Plus I1-4 utilizes past characters WAY better, and without investigating you don’t get to appreciate the foggy and tranquil atmosphere at the Temple which is sadly relegated to maps. And there’s no Apollo Justice simulation from 4-1 and 4-2. So we consider it a missed opportunity. I still think 3-1 is better.
@@Kaempfdog cool opinion but nah 3-4 to me is such a banger but i have weird opinions lmao eg turnabout serenade and the monsterous turnabout are some of my favorites in the series as well as ablaze. Also a really weird thing about this video is that to me the most important part to me is the murder method and what really puts a case into that top tier but this was rarely brought up, like ablazes mystery is just so amazing with the crossbow and fountains and what makes me love it! amazing video
@@themonoworth96 well if you can remember the details really well from I1-5 I give you my kudos. Even with my REALLY in depth analysis I had trouble pinning things down for that finale which is ultimately the issue. My brother would wait a few weeks for me and try and get everything regarding certain cases. Which was…difficult for I1-5.
I’m pleased you enjoy 5-2 and 4-3. I ultimately enjoy both cases a lot, but they did make a few mistakes I couldn’t ignore even if I consider them pretty minor. Like 5-2’s obsession with red herrings and how they do NOT work with a revealed killer. (Even though I really enjoy L’Belle.)
4-3 focused on a single red herring SO LONG it feels like you’re spinning your wheels the whole case. The fact that the newspaper of Borginia just said: Yeah that’s a theory at best. Is honestly REALLY telling halfway through the case. And you hold onto the lyrics theory until Daryan is on the stand.
Dgs is finally out and I can't wait to see videos on it
We need to replay the crossover proper because those characters made it to other lists. We do plan on covering DGS separately. But that takes time and SHIT tons of analysis.
yeah, it's very interesting because the first game by itself just does not stand alone, but taken together the games are marvelously cohesive and tell an interesting story, if not one as emotionally resonant as Trials and Tribulations. but it's mechanically sound, the least gimmicky modern Ace Attorney games, and has great character writing especially from the leads.
@@dvillines26 I had to remove your main comment man. Sorry bout that, but there was a tad too much for DGS that was spoilers and I haven’t played it yet.
Turnabout seranade is probably in my top 10-15 for me. I like this case so much
What was so fun about it for you?
It is funny because it is my favorite case in AA too.
Turnabout serenade is actually one of my least favorite cases in the series
first i know this is your guys option and i respect that but i have to give my own
8:13 This case being this low is an absolute crime I love how it further portrays Dahila as this evil person and in this case, you see how much absolute psycho she is how she is able to manipulate people and how she only cares for herself the defendant is tragic although love blind how her and her sister used him for there own gain and disposed of him letting him rot in jail with a life sentence is crazy and to me is awsom writing there nothing in my mind that can convince why this case with the combined effort of you 2 is the 3rd worse
It seems to me like an uncommon opinion to say there's replay value in a mystery visual novel.
If there was funny rare bits or aha nods or connections that's one thing.
But I'd be the kind of person to rate cases by how I felt about them initially. These types of impressions matter the most here.
Some of these cases do have replay value, not all of them though, any of the TGAA cases don't since they last so long, but the shorter ones in the rest of the series is like reading your favorite chapter of a book again.
I1-5 is such a funny case, but funny just does not correlate to fun in this case
Half the damn case is just “We have like, 1000 pieces of evidence that you killed The Guy”
“Diplomatic Immunity lol”
I’m always happy to admit the positives of i1-5. And it’s DEFINITELY hilarious. Between Larry, Wendy Oldbag, Ambassador Palaeno, and of course Gumshoe and Kay, you got SO MUCH fun stuff. And the drama of the Yatagarasu is very compelling. And while Quercus Alba is a NIGHTMARE, he is still a great villain even if he LONG overstays his welcome.
i1-5 appreciation is always good to see.
Rite of turnabout is so freaking good. Side characters are so on point.
I really think having the Monstruos turnabout be the first and turnabout countdown be the fourth would've make the whole game better
i would actually put 1-1 over 2-1, i found the things like throwing the wig more entertaining than 2-1s jokes
Personally 2-1 is the ONE case I wish was elsewhere because I was the one who pushed it down. Yeah. We think lowly of i1-3. But that’s just us.
Holy shit, I can't believe there's somebody else who doesn't entirely hate Turnabout Bigtop
Who knew that “crazy clown lady” would be so interesting now 😀
I…think I’m afraid to ask about why Geiru Toneido is suddenly a person everyone is talking about. And there is literally one reason I can think of considering it’s not her backstory.
3-2 sticks in my mind constantly just because of the anime having maya spin in the office chair
Just realized that the wedding case was basically a call back to the very first ace attorney case: a murder where the murder weapon is a strange clock and Larry is involved.
This is great, but it does always bum me out whenever characters with DID (uendo) are called nuts or crazy. Still great discussion, just a gripe with that as DID and other dissociative disorders are widely misunderstood and stigmatized, which is upsetting to fall into time and time again with Murder mystery type stuff. Ah well, at least ace attorney didn’t go the danganronpa route with DID
You both have interesting and unpopular opinions here and there but honestly that (+ your passion for the series) is what made this worth watching. Great video.
you know, i loved these games, especially the phoenix wright games, but id rather watch the anime dub than replay the games, even if some of the memorable moments are scrapped. the characters have amazingly good picks for the voice actors and its very fun
+it has the the MOST ANIME anime openers ever, that might not make much sense but you just have to watch them.
I can't believe you don't even mention Cody going on a Lockeian rant about the purpose of trade in society. It's one of my favorite moments in the game
Oh shit, I didn't realize the pun was Prays A Lot, though it makes sense with what how they described him. I thought it was Pray Zealot, which made me sus him as the killer/villain from minute one and I felt justified when he was exactly that. Maybe it was a double pun, but we know SoJ doesn't do that.
Alright so I watched this part, and I will give a detailed view on it. This time, with a tier list on how the case did than it was expected. (SPOILERS)
40- The First Turnabout- Same spot as I would put it. It's replay value is the lowest for obvious reasons. It is the easiest case too with the least substance. BUT BUT don't get me wrong. This case is fantastic and it gets a A from me on how it did than it was expected. In fact, Phoenix stopping Larry from speaking, that kind of choices should have been given more ahead in the cases. And also this case does the perfect Job on hooking the viewers to the game, still lowest because this case has been topped in every way, still I love it.
39- The Lost Turnabout. I would put it here too. It is way too easy. The only problem is that it is way too easy. And Wellington is slightly irritating. But asides from that this case is really good. Easy but technically has more substance and 'difficulty' than 1-1. The humor in this case is quite great too. Gumshoe's crush on Maggey is executed well. Nothing else to say actually. Tier is B- since I expected it to do better.
38- The Kidnapped Turnabout-I hate this case. And I would put it here too. Way too long, way unnecessary content like the Badgers, Oldbag, Ema(Not bad but Ema wasn't well executed). Shi- Long Lang and Kay Faraday saved the case from being a complete failure, and even then I would give this case an E on it's expectations. The side characters are the worst. The Amanos and the victim suck, as their music and this case. A missed opportunity by the makers
37-Turnabout Beginnings. Alright here I would swap places with Turnabout Visitor. The replay value of this case is low, but first time play value is awesome. The trial was kinda dragging in the middle, but when Mia started to have an advantage on Dahlia, it was awesome. The suicide moment is the most memorable actually, sad of course but like yes I remember it exactly till date. I would give this case a grade of A actually, since it set up the finale perfectly. I feel that this case could have had more substance. .. but ok.
36- Turnabout Visitor- I like this case a lot. But still I would put it at 37, since it doesn't have like some super awesome content. Yes it is a good start to the spin-off, the mechanics are cool, the characters are good, but nothing really much memorable. A 'B+' grade from my side.
35- The Foreign Turnabout- I feel like this is an awesome case for a first time, it's replay value is low but the case is really good. The stakes getting raised and the divination seance is cool I must say. I would put Turnabout soba here, and put this case on 33 actually. The characters are decent so yes.
34- Turnabout Countdown. I love this case too. The bombing part is great. The characters are great too. Ted Tonate is good. But characters like Wright, Cykes and Woods have been way well fleshed out ahead. Still it is cool, the mood matrix is awesome, 3rd best mechanic in terms of powers only behind Logic and logic chess. But yes it is an intro case so a grade of B+ from me And 34 rank imo
33-Turnabout memories. Alright I would have this case higher, upto 29th rank I guess(just my opinion). Mia is great, Grossberg is annoying, but still doesn't ruin it for me, Phoenix is hilarious and still executed really well in this case, Payne is somehow better to me in this case and his breakdown is lovely. And of course, Dahlia.... she is Executed better ahead and yet she is awesome in this case. Had this case had investigation and a bit more difficulty along with grossberg being less gross, I would have given this case an S tier. Still it gets an a tier from me. Also because it is important to the story.
32- Turnabout Soba. So apart from Ueendo(sorry for wrong spelling if it is,) and Simon Blackquill, this case is broken. Athena is worse, nahyuta as expected is bad too, the defendant is not great and the killer is just ok. A grade of D. That's it.
31)Turnabout Sisters. I would put it above 4-3 and 2-3 but yes this case isn't all that good. The main characters are there, but they are more better executed ahead, April May is just okay, redd white gets revealed which makes it cheap. And also Mia helping Phoenix in the end, way too cheap. The Bellboy is really good tho. So yes, this case helps set up ahead cases but still really weak.
30)Turnabout Serenade. A case which is overhated but still really bad. This is the case in which Apollo achieved the most, Klavier gets really well expressed, Lamroir is good too. But Ema, Machi are weak. The case has worse logic than 2-3 and the guitar section is so bad. Would put it on 32 and a grade of E.
29)Turnabout big top- The case which is bad but gets way too much hate. The characters are annoying but still have some arc. The case has poor logic but still has it's own moments, the love Triangle SUCKED. And, like not much to say. Would put it on 31.
28)The Monstrous Turnabout- OK so this case is under rated, but still weird. The killer is revealed again! Which also makes putting sus on the girl and his father illogical. The father who is the defendant is well executed. Simon is good, apollo is actually done really well. Trucy and Athena are ok. Oh and also the investigation was way too easy and linear, a problem of DD.
27)Turnabout Airlines-This case is lovely and i would rank it at 26, higher than aai1-5. This case is short, but unique. The characters are really good. Teneiro in particular was done well. Franziska comes back making it good, and the culprit was super fun to cross-examine and expose. Has less substance but no nonsense and must be more appreciated. A grade from me
26)Turnabout Ablaze- I HATE THIS CASE TOO. Way too long, the length wasn't justified, the investigations were boring (despite the fact I prefer INVESTIGATIONS spin-off over the main main tbh..). Quercus Alba was way too tough to take down. It still has it's moments but not enough for me. Hugely disappointed by this one. D grade from me
25)The rite of Turnabout. This case.... just like you both, I have both extremely good and bad feelings for this case. Maya getting accused again is bad, the investigations are great and actually better than trials tbh, Rayfa is good ig. Nahyuta is THE WEAKLING AGAIN! And Datz too isn't fun. The ending part of trial is memorable but else a huge bag of goods and bads. B grade from me
24) The imprisoned Turnabout. I would rank this case above 6-6. I love this case, and just goes to show that even the weakest of AAI2 is awesome. Shields was toxic towards Edgeworth, but you can't really blame him, as the previous Edgeworth was quite bad. Kay is fun too there. Jay Elbird is freaking awesome, his punching sprites make it up and his plan was cool of escaping. Justine Courtney and Sebastian are the weaklings but still better than expected. And what people don't talk about is Miles Edgeworth in this case. Him fighting till the end and turning into bluffing man Phoenix Wright was awesome. And Simon Keyes....... he is there....and yes he is ok too in the case. Dogen is really good here, even though he was executed better. And Patricia is fun too. An underrated case imo
23)Turnabout Time Traveller- This case. ... Athena getting trashes and the culprit in the end ruined this case. But yes, this is a decent case. Maya is good ig, the defendant and her bf are ok, Edgeworth is awesome, the Judge lecturing on the power of love is so hilarious and awesome! And Larry the legend.... his 2nd best appearance imo. A case with both highs and lows.
22) Turnabout Samurai- Yooooo I love this case and glad, that this case is recognized. Apart from investigations, which were decent but Long, the trials are great. Edgeworth is the best here, Maya too is awesome, Gumshow is good too. And the side characters are awesome. Dee Vasquez is good, Wendy Oldbag is damn good, destroyingboth Edgeworth and Phoenix, Will Powers is good ,Cody is good too. Sal Manella does his job ok too. overall an overhated case.
21)The stolen Turnabout- I would have this case on 20 rather, and have recipe for Turnabout here. This case's 2nd half is weaker and the first half is better. The characters are super awesome. Except the last part of the case, it is a pretty solid case.
And that wraps it up for this part. Now to formally put my rankings here-
40)1-1
39)2-1
38)AAi1-3
37)AAI1-1
36)3-4
35)6-4
34)5-1
33)6-1
32)4-3
31)2-3
30)1-2
29)3-1
28)5-2
27)AAI1-5
26)AAI1-2
25)6-3
24)6-6
23)AAI2-2
22)1-3
21)3-3(3-2 at 20)
An awesome vid I must say will cover up the other part too :)
This is VERY well thought out. Nicely done. Admittedly, 2-1 would’ve move up one for us because it doesn’t deserve the dishonor of being beneath i1-3. Our single regret in the balancing.
3-4 our biggest problem…or rather my biggest was Melissa Foster. It was SUCH a pointless lie. Mia was already established to not know her so the reveal was…nothing. OH MY GOD, IT’S THE PERSON WE KNEW FRAME 1 WHO SHE WAS?! Who would’ve THOUGHT?! Not to mention it added no immersion in comparison to its far healthier partner 3-1. Plus above all else, now that i1-4 exists, the past characters don’t have the same unique level they had before since it was done WAY better there.
6-4 people are a WEE bit too tough on. Athena actually getting people digging into her where it hurts and NOT resulting in a trauma spiral and letting her proper determination show…with a bit of the BEST ENCOURAGEMENT EVER FROM BLACKQUILL. Uendo was great, Geiru was fun but not surprising, and we also did enjoy Nahyuta’s freaking poetry memorization. (And we will cover that EXTENSIVELY later) It was enough unique interactions and although Nahyuta is INFURIATING, it just had more to work with than the intros. So it went above them.
2-3 and 4-3 are just overhated. They truly are not that bad and could utilize your emotions well. And what lacked in side characters was made up for in AWESOME main characters. And yeah there are stick out complaints, but when you REALLY look at them, they are hardly more than nitpicks. Mediocre cases is what they are. Not bad cases.
@@Kaempfdog True 4-3 and 2-3 are overhated. About 3-4, they had to add the Melissa Foster part as Mia then didn't meet Dahlia so yes. A lacking case but still needed to set up the finale. Also yes will update my list soon(as I am a normal human and not super sonic who can cover up things super fast LOL. But yes an awesome video there. Will give my update on my cases too :)
Honestly, kinda sad that many people hatin on Turnabout Ablaze. One of my favourite case of all time. Yes, Quercus Alba is kind of a pain in the ass, but because of that, its fun to see like every character trying to take him down (EVEN THE FORENSIC HAS A "HOLD IT" MOMEN).
We consider i1-5 a mixed bag not a bad case. In terms of the series finales it’s still in our opinion the weakest. It’s high points are RIGHT along the other high points of finales. The Yatagarasu story is AMAZING. And the characters are a LOT of fun. But it’s not organized well and REALLY petered out at the end. But I do admit I genuinely enjoy a LARGE portion of the case. Our grievances are all found in the other review we did. XD
Good lord, storyteller's so high? I can confidently say this isn't going to be a list that I agree with, but that's okay, because that's the beauty of opinions!
Well that one definitely is not a shining example of a good case, but it does have more than an intro case and it had the capability to accomplish red herrings with no killer reveal. Plus Athena and Blackquill are a TREAT working off each other. It needed an investigation of Blackquill and Athena together. That would’ve been hysterical. It BARELY made it out of the intro cluster. And it was freaking close to not.
I feel like Uendo definitely carries the trial
i actually really liked turnabout storyteller (spoilers ahead), it was one of the most enjoyable cases of aa6 for me. however, i do agree that it's completely pointless to most of the plot and absolute filler (which i think betrays my opinion of the game as a whole haha)
i didn't appreciate nahyuta's writing that much, but i liked seeing blackquill and athena working together and to see a character with Disassociative Identity Disorder that isn't a negative charicature (imo). The bait and switch with suspecting the "secret" alter to then revealing he's actually a scared, vulnerable child (as DID forms in childhood from trauma) was a nice turn of events, as many other media use DID as a gotcha for a surprise killer reveal when that's... not how it works and demonizes people with DID. Obviously Uendo isn't the most accurate portrayal, but the liberties they take aren't offensive. You can tell what roles some of the alters play in protecting the host, and his status as a comedian probably influenced how dramatic they are. Athena's characterization is a bit miffy but, whatever.
This like for this case probably stems from my desire for Athena and Blackquill to have had their own trilogy. But I understand why others wouldn't enjoy it as much.
6-4 defense is something I’m genuinely and pleasantly surprised to see. I think you’re literally the 1st one in fact. And I’m happy to see you giving out the same wins I did. One of the hardest things about our ranking was giving wins to disliked cases and how it all balanced out. And this one isn’t a WINNER, but it definitely has more than most assume. I worked hard to defend this one where I could. Nahyuta was the BIG ONE that held this case back.
@@Kaempfdog yeah... i totally get where you are coming from and its placement on the list. nahyuta detracts from the entire case, as they do with most of the game (which was disappointing but i digress), and it's also a case that has absolutely no impact in the grand scheme of things. i think it's neat, especially with the handling of DID, but i wouldn't expect it to make it very high on the list either LOL. i was, in turn, pleasantly surprised you defended it as you did, since i haven't seen anyone talk about its good points (understandably so, since the case is surrounded by the main story that has a lot more to dig into). you do a good job with balancing criticism and praise for these rankings! in the end, 6-4 is one that could be completely cut from the game and nothing would change, which sucks for athena and blackquill and only makes nahyuta look even more frustrating.
Investigations is so interesting! The first game has got all these great things it Could do, but never does. It was bad so they don't localize its sequel and just.
It does all the things. The first one wanted to do. Character growth, surprising cameos, doing something meaningful with all that lore, and creating interesting cases you couldn't have done with normal Ace attorney gameplay!
Well investigations 1 does have i1-4. And we love it. We generally agree with that statement. Neither investigations game is our favorite, but we both appreciate what they did for the series.
@@Kaempfdog I totally forgot about i1-4! I have no idea what happened there apart from Manfred coming in... So I'll play that one again this weekend! ❤️😁
(This is why I love video's like this! ❤️)
If I recall, the reason Investigations 2 never got localized was because the first didn't sell well overseas, and they figured the sequel would perform the same.
Which I get, but it's a shame when the sequel is so much better than the first.
@@darkiusmc979 Definitely!!
Investigations 2-3 feels like a finale, it's insane. and it's the third damned case. it's crazy.
I don’t get the hate for 3-4 that your brother states in the video.
Dahlia’s testimonies were tedious? I don’t think so, they were all pretty easy honestly. Something tedious would be one of Moe’s testimonies that punished you for pressing along with needing to press a single statement twice with no indication you had to do so.
Boring setting? It’s literally the same setting as 3-5, (albeit just the bridge area, but then again the case is very short) I don’t see how you can call the setting here boring and 3-5 not boring.
Unsubtle foreshadowing? What? The case mainly explained the mysteries behind Dahlia and her connection to Mia and Godot. Likewise, Diego Armando was there to show his connection with Mia, not necessarily to foreshadow. It would’ve been much less effective if in 3-5 Godot just told us his backstory without us seeing his prior self and relationships beforehand. We saw how he impacted Mia firsthand, which is something that simply can’t just be told through text like an anime flashback.
Sorry if this came across as snarky or rude but I just don’t agree at all with this placement and the reasons given for its placement aren’t explained well.
Ok. I’ll try and readdress his arguments the best I can. There was no point in hiding Dahlia’s identity for such a short case so you’re spinning your wheels getting to the point where you know who she is when she was ALREADY introduced in 3-1. So that was dumb.
The boring setting is more because instead of the WONDERFUL atmosphere of 3-5 it is ENTIRELY relegated to maps. And no added context but very simple descriptions despite the large area covered. And it’s all relegated to the bridge. But the bridge is hardly the only thing involved. The mentions of other aspects are cut to mere statements to focus on the bridge again.
3-4 is Godot’s least impressive appearance and he’s just…there. He doesn’t act invested in the slightest other than in his Mia condescending until the end. And it’s just…not ideal.
Not our best explanation won’t deny. But everything in 3-4 other than the suicide is more to 3-5’s benefit that it’s benefit.
@@Kaempfdog Dahlia hiding her identity was 100% for the characters in-game and not the player, so I can understand the frustration, but I don't think it was done poorly. The case still uses it's time wisely between the kidnapping and the murder. Knowing Dahlia's identity beforehand means that it isn't an issue for the player to progress through the main mystery of the case despite Mia not knowing who she truly is. If we didn't know who she was beforehand, there would've had to have been a bigger emphasis on her identity in general which likely would've taken away from other aspects of the case.
The bridge is only the main focus because it has a lot of history behind it with the kidnapping and the recent murder. It does help setup the bridge in 3-5 so I can see where your issues with it are, and although it may be less interesting than 3-5, I don't think that makes it not interesting at all.
Same with Godot, even if this is his most boring appearance, it's not boring itself at all. We get to learn that he's not just some faceless guy behind a mask, but that he had an actual life and aspirations. We get to see his great sense of pride in himself. He smashes a coffee cup with his bare hand, causing him to bleed, out of frustration for indirectly causing a murder. And the whole way through, he smiles because of his pride, and we get the origin of the quote "the only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over." I think him saying this line singlehandedly makes this case one of his better appearances, as his tears in 3-5 would've meant nothing hadn't he said it. No other case exposes his character like this.
Although it's more or less a setup case, I think it's the best setup case in the series, as it still has it's own interesting plot and shining character moments, as well as it's own remarkable resolution (albeit bittersweet).
@@brendanhughes5679 and that’s your opinion. What really takes the wind out of the sail of 3-4 for us is i1-4 which SO much better utilizes past characters and truly creating the paths we know and love. Plus for the best build up case for 3-5 we went with 2-2.
I think 3-4 is great, but for a setup, I just wish it did more. I’m happy you got so much more out of it than we did. But most of what you say in the fundamentals doesn’t work for us as it does for you. (Except the coffee mug breaking. That we include in the suicide scene because THAT is RIGHT along with the impact and we adore it.)
Never in my days did I think I was going to see Turnabout Big Tob above the bottom 10
And it belongs there :) it’s more fun than you remember I’m sure.
I always thought Courtney isn’t usually a hypocritical and biased person, but instead she’s testing Edgeworth to see how he reacts and compare it to how she feels a prosecutor should react.