I have had one running for about 16 months and it seems to be doing well. I have not treated the bees at all - not even with icing sugar - and they have a strong population going into winter. Too early to make definitive statements, of course, but so far, so good.
My hope is that, by creating an environment that encourages predatory mites and creatures like earwigs to take up residence, these will in turn take care of the SHB and wax moth grubs. This whole plan is based on thinking of the bee hive as an ecosystem, rather than a sterile box in which only bees live. Hollow trees contain a multitude of creatures, along with fungi and moulds, many of which may in fact be beneficial to bees: the fact that they are tolerated by bees must be a clue!
This video by Paul Stamets describes the kind of symbiotic relationships that I had in mind when I came up with the idea of the eco-floor th-cam.com/video/DAw_Zzge49c/w-d-xo.html
Still looking good. I am now 'seeding' the floor material (mostly sawdust) with a couple handfuls of leaf litter from around the hive to help the bugs feel more at home.
I understand the concept, and it does sound like a good idea, I would just like to see it in practice on the east coast of the US. If it works as planned it would be great for folks in Florida and other southern areas that are totally flooded with SHB.
I don't think so, as the larval stage of the SHB would be vulnerable and liable to be eaten by earwigs. I would like someone in a SHB area to test this!
The only problem I have had is the floor material drying out. I am working on ways to prevent that happening, and someone else is testing a simple irrigation system, which may also be a way to provide water inside the hive when bees don't have enough. I will soon be posting another video with more detail and discussion.
+Philip Chandler I had earwigs living with my bees and even another insect that was eating the dead bees on the outside of the hives. I designed my own beehives and my bees didn't have any disease in 2015. You really got me thinking with this new idea, new to me, because I just started keeping bees in spring 2015. Thank you. I will watch all your videos. I am in Michigan.
+e stan Good to hear. I don't have all the answers, but if more people start thinking along these lines, between us we can probably come up with workable solutions.
+Philip Chandler I know I'm dedicating the rest of my life to try and accommodate the bees. I live amongst Roundup infested areas. But will do my best to help bees and any animals I can. I keep a very clean yard and maybe more people will follow.
How are these hives doing? I'm learning about bees & will start next year. I'm in upstate NY. Maybe I'll try one of these. Thank you for all your videos!
Hi Phil, I'm in the middle of building my hive (as per top bar plans in your book and on biobees), and trying to figure out the best version of the eco floor housing. Which is the version you now prefer? I've looked at all the films and seen a guttering one, one with the detachable extra bottom on hinges, and one where the extra depth for the eco floor is incorporated into the main box i.e. not detachable. Also, with this floor, do you still need mesh or not? And do you need the lining (weed suppressing material)? Thanks so much for all the advice and inspiration. I'm a complete beginner. English, living in Holland, so climate is similar to yours, although often a bit warmer in the summer, and surprisingly quite a bit colder in the winter. (We regularly have temperatures of -10 and lower.) Enjoy the bee weather (finally).
Hi Dominique, I'm still trying to figure it out myself! The issue with ecofloors on a TBH is that they are isolated from the ground, and therefore they tend to dry out and their resident bug and bacteria populations suffer as a result. It may end up being a better option for vertical hives than can be placed closer to the ground. The gutter system works well to regulate air exchange without being draughty, and helps with insulation. I don't use a mesh between the floor and the bees.
@@BarefootBeekeeper Thanks so much for replying. I understand they are a learning in process. I wonder if spraying the twigs, wood chips etc on a regular basis with some water would help, or will this irritate the bees? I will have a think, and consider having a detachable bottom, so I can top it up with fresh soil etc. And I will look at the biobees site and see if I can mail you a picture of my hive when finished.
@@dominiquelesbirel3259 it is possible to do that, although it is more disturbance than the bees would prefer. A friend of mine installed an irrigation system based on drip tubing and a bottle of water. It worked, as long as the bottle was regularly topped up. From there, you can start designing automated systems based on a humidity sensor connected to a microprocessor and a pump... But then we are moving some distance from our principles of simplicity and low cost!
@@BarefootBeekeeper This makes me think of one of those water bottles that you attach to a rabbit hutch, or something similar, filled with rain water. I will experiment. After some thought and your responses, I'm now leaning towards a detachable wooden box on the bottom (in case it rots etc) and a mesh floor (underneath right at the bottom, not between the eco floor and the bees) ideally with a solid detachable floor that can be added for winter. Will now have to bake my boyfriend a cake, as this is now past my very rudimentary woodwork skills. Thanks again for your help and time. Will keep you updated.
He keeps calling himself 'Phil Chandler' in all his videos, but he sounds like Sean Bean. Sean Bean dies in all his movies, so now he's hiding out as a bee keeper making bee keeping videos on TH-cam.
I'll try this with the next TBH I construct. I modified the original design of yours when I made my last TBH to accommodate the width of a Langstroth frame and built foundationless top bars to fit in a Langstroth to make splits easier to do with not having to fiddle with cutting comb to fit etc in my TBH. So far it has been going real well. I do tend to do splits with the empty back end of a TBH so when this design is implemented I'll probably keep the #8 screen over that area in place to avoid skirmishes and robbing.
I'll try it, what the hell! my hive based off plans from T.J. Carr and John Bradford so my bottom board is solid wood. I put a 4" vent right in middle. but it's cold in Minnesota, and with shade.. worth a shot! eco floor!
I have just built two top bar hives and have included this deep eco floor. I am on the east coast of the US and will gladly share the results after I see them. This is my first foray into keeping bees so it may be hit or miss. But I will also consider a way to keep the mulch damp and if I find a good one I will share. Thanks for all of your helpful videos and info.
I would be curious as to how well it would work in the states. Pretty much everywhere has SHB to some degree. Seems like this would allow them to just go into the stuff in the bottom of the hive to complete their growth cycle, versus leaving the hive. Could be wrong, I often am.
Because it would no longer be a top bar hive it would basically be a horizontal frame/foundation hive....thereby defeating some of the perceived benefits of the KTBH.
Right then, Philip...I'll have to try this one day in the summertime and probably remove it during the winter and have a removable solid floor for the cold months.
The hives these are fitted to seem to be thriving, although I have found that the filling material (now using decomposing wood chips) does tend to dry out. Experimenting with closing the floor more, but retaining drainage.
Philip Chandler The dryness would be a concern in my area ( eastern Washington state; rain shadow) where humidity often drops below 20%, summer and in winter cold spells. Have your bees sealed the chip floor with propolis? I am considering trying bees next year and am still researching. Perhaps a one inch mesh gap would serve better? So, two questions.
I would love to see a picture, or video, of the eco floor materials in place, and see how your bees look with everything in place. Nice video! Great concept!
I was wondering about humidity. We're on the Isle of Mull where we get these driving rains for weeks and weeks. Humidity seems to cause problems for the bees. Beekeepers here wrap their hives in plastic and insulation to prevent them from getting wet and soaked. Would it make sense to make an eco-floor in a very humid climate?
I live in Devon and we are no strangers to humidity! We have also had weeks of rain, and while I agree that excess humidity can cause problems, especially with mould and Nosema, I'm not seeing those issues in hives with eco floors. The floor material seems to absorb excess moisture and stabilize the hive atmosphere. This year, I intend to experiment with birch in particular, as it contains amino acids and minerals that may well be useful to bees.
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
I have had one running for about 16 months and it seems to be doing well. I have not treated the bees at all - not even with icing sugar - and they have a strong population going into winter. Too early to make definitive statements, of course, but so far, so good.
Hopefully some US beekeepers with SHB will give it a try. I would certainly like to see the results.
My hope is that, by creating an environment that encourages predatory mites and creatures like earwigs to take up residence, these will in turn take care of the SHB and wax moth grubs.
This whole plan is based on thinking of the bee hive as an ecosystem, rather than a sterile box in which only bees live. Hollow trees contain a multitude of creatures, along with fungi and moulds, many of which may in fact be beneficial to bees: the fact that they are tolerated by bees must be a clue!
This video by Paul Stamets describes the kind of symbiotic relationships that I had in mind when I came up with the idea of the eco-floor th-cam.com/video/DAw_Zzge49c/w-d-xo.html
Still looking good. I am now 'seeding' the floor material (mostly sawdust) with a couple handfuls of leaf litter from around the hive to help the bugs feel more at home.
Amazing laughing 😃
I understand the concept, and it does sound like a good idea, I would just like to see it in practice on the east coast of the US. If it works as planned it would be great for folks in Florida and other southern areas that are totally flooded with SHB.
I don't think so, as the larval stage of the SHB would be vulnerable and liable to be eaten by earwigs. I would like someone in a SHB area to test this!
Interesting!! Please keep us up to date…..
It's been three years since you posted this video - how has the experiment progressed? I'd love to see this revisited.
The only problem I have had is the floor material drying out. I am working on ways to prevent that happening, and someone else is testing a simple irrigation system, which may also be a way to provide water inside the hive when bees don't have enough. I will soon be posting another video with more detail and discussion.
+Philip Chandler I had earwigs living with my bees and even another insect that was eating the dead bees on the outside of the hives. I designed my own beehives and my bees didn't have any disease in 2015. You really got me thinking with this new idea, new to me, because I just started keeping bees in spring 2015. Thank you. I will watch all your videos. I am in Michigan.
+e stan Good to hear. I don't have all the answers, but if more people start thinking along these lines, between us we can probably come up with workable solutions.
+Philip Chandler I know I'm dedicating the rest of my life to try and accommodate the bees. I live amongst Roundup infested areas. But will do my best to help bees and any animals I can. I keep a very clean yard and maybe more people will follow.
+Philip Chandler Thank you for the kind response.
+e stan Good luck and may the force be with you!
How are these hives doing? I'm learning about bees & will start next year. I'm in upstate NY. Maybe I'll try one of these. Thank you for all your videos!
This is not an open-mesh floor - please watch it again!
Hi Phil, I'm in the middle of building my hive (as per top bar plans in your book and on biobees), and trying to figure out the best version of the eco floor housing. Which is the version you now prefer?
I've looked at all the films and seen a guttering one, one with the detachable extra bottom on hinges, and one where the extra depth for the eco floor is incorporated into the main box i.e. not detachable. Also, with this floor, do you still need mesh or not? And do you need the lining (weed suppressing material)?
Thanks so much for all the advice and inspiration. I'm a complete beginner. English, living in Holland, so climate is similar to yours, although often a bit warmer in the summer, and surprisingly quite a bit colder in the winter. (We regularly have temperatures of -10 and lower.)
Enjoy the bee weather (finally).
Hi Dominique, I'm still trying to figure it out myself! The issue with ecofloors on a TBH is that they are isolated from the ground, and therefore they tend to dry out and their resident bug and bacteria populations suffer as a result. It may end up being a better option for vertical hives than can be placed closer to the ground. The gutter system works well to regulate air exchange without being draughty, and helps with insulation. I don't use a mesh between the floor and the bees.
@@BarefootBeekeeper Thanks so much for replying. I understand they are a learning in process. I wonder if spraying the twigs, wood chips etc on a regular basis with some water would help, or will this irritate the bees? I will have a think, and consider having a detachable bottom, so I can top it up with fresh soil etc. And I will look at the biobees site and see if I can mail you a picture of my hive when finished.
@@dominiquelesbirel3259 it is possible to do that, although it is more disturbance than the bees would prefer. A friend of mine installed an irrigation system based on drip tubing and a bottle of water. It worked, as long as the bottle was regularly topped up. From there, you can start designing automated systems based on a humidity sensor connected to a microprocessor and a pump... But then we are moving some distance from our principles of simplicity and low cost!
@@BarefootBeekeeper This makes me think of one of those water bottles that you attach to a rabbit hutch, or something similar, filled with rain water. I will experiment. After some thought and your responses, I'm now leaning towards a detachable wooden box on the bottom (in case it rots etc) and a mesh floor (underneath right at the bottom, not between the eco floor and the bees) ideally with a solid detachable floor that can be added for winter. Will now have to bake my boyfriend a cake, as this is now past my very rudimentary woodwork skills. Thanks again for your help and time. Will keep you updated.
He keeps calling himself 'Phil Chandler' in all his videos, but he sounds like Sean Bean. Sean Bean dies in all his movies, so now he's hiding out as a bee keeper making bee keeping videos on TH-cam.
I'll try this with the next TBH I construct. I modified the original design of yours when I made my last TBH to accommodate the width of a Langstroth frame and built foundationless top bars to fit in a Langstroth to make splits easier to do with not having to fiddle with cutting comb to fit etc in my TBH. So far it has been going real well. I do tend to do splits with the empty back end of a TBH so when this design is implemented I'll probably keep the #8 screen over that area in place to avoid skirmishes and robbing.
Where can you get wide solid timber boarding like that nr Totnes? Thankyou phil ,a great video as always.
What about aunts. ? Does someone have experience with this? But a very interesting idea.
I'll try it, what the hell! my hive based off plans from T.J. Carr and John Bradford so my bottom board is solid wood. I put a 4" vent right in middle. but it's cold in Minnesota, and with shade.. worth a shot! eco floor!
I have just built two top bar hives and have included this deep eco floor. I am on the east coast of the US and will gladly share the results after I see them. This is my first foray into keeping bees so it may be hit or miss. But I will also consider a way to keep the mulch damp and if I find a good one I will share. Thanks for all of your helpful videos and info.
Great! I look forward to your results. I will be doing more experiments this year.
Interesting Idea. Here in the US Gulf Coast I fear that bottom would fill with roaches just like any mulch.
I would be curious as to how well it would work in the states. Pretty much everywhere has SHB to some degree. Seems like this would allow them to just go into the stuff in the bottom of the hive to complete their growth cycle, versus leaving the hive. Could be wrong, I often am.
Phil, why not make top bar hives with straight sides to take conventional rectangular frames?
Because it would no longer be a top bar hive it would basically be a horizontal frame/foundation hive....thereby defeating some of the perceived benefits of the KTBH.
Bees treat the slanted sides of the KTBH the same as a hive floor, preventing them from attaching comb to the side.
Right then, Philip...I'll have to try this one day in the summertime and probably remove it during the winter and have a removable solid floor for the cold months.
Philip Chandler how is this working out for you so far, i am interested in trying this in a few of my lang. hives
The hives these are fitted to seem to be thriving, although I have found that the filling material (now using decomposing wood chips) does tend to dry out. Experimenting with closing the floor more, but retaining drainage.
Philip Chandler The dryness would be a concern in my area ( eastern Washington state; rain shadow) where humidity often drops below 20%, summer and in winter cold spells. Have your bees sealed the chip floor with propolis? I am considering trying bees next year and am still researching. Perhaps a one inch mesh gap would serve better? So, two questions.
Cool! I did the same thing with my hives too so that way varroa mite falls off bee through screen and can never get back on the bee.
I would love to see a picture, or video, of the eco floor materials in place, and see how your bees look with everything in place. Nice video! Great concept!
I was wondering about humidity. We're on the Isle of Mull where we get these driving rains for weeks and weeks. Humidity seems to cause problems for the bees. Beekeepers here wrap their hives in plastic and insulation to prevent them from getting wet and soaked. Would it make sense to make an eco-floor in a very humid climate?
I live in Devon and we are no strangers to humidity! We have also had weeks of rain, and while I agree that excess humidity can cause problems, especially with mould and Nosema, I'm not seeing those issues in hives with eco floors. The floor material seems to absorb excess moisture and stabilize the hive atmosphere. This year, I intend to experiment with birch in particular, as it contains amino acids and minerals that may well be useful to bees.
Do you remove the e o bottom during winter?
Whats happening with your ecosystem floor?
Well, one thing for sure, it is an idea. I would like to see one in practice.
Very, very clever Mr Chandler.
Phil, how long is your top bar hive. It looks like about five to six feet.
Actually could you give me the dimensions of your top bar bee hive?
Tom Nelson see the free plans available from my web site at biobees.com
Thanks Phil.